Mini 458 - Game over!

[Crub]

Hi All In for J-Man.

unvote

First of all apart from J-Man's frustrations with dylan and the bad way he went about his claim I can't see why I'm suspected.

Let me break down my thoughts. I'm just going to say it how I see it.

After the first third of the thread I was pretty much convinced that Tromboner(CKD) and Kate were scum buddies together.
Post 39 is the 2nd No Lynch vote
Post 40 kate agrees theres no info but doesn't bat an eyelid at someone voting 2 for no lynch
Post 45 kate gives her buddy some good advice, that he should probably unvote no lynch.
I know this is a long time ago (15 pages) but I still don't think we should discount it.

When CKD subs in he does a bit of suspicion hopping and then comes out with this beauty

Numenorean7, enjoyed reading your brief analysis (even though it does target me). I hope it is not some grand mafia trick to divert our eyes from you. But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia.

I find that real subtle ... He then follows this up with a number of attack's on Kate which I think is a ploy for him to distance himself from her.

As for everyone else here is my gut feel :
NabakovNabakov : Pro-Town
Molestargazer : Undecided
Kate : Scum
Crub : Vanilla Townie (CKD I don't think that's the fish you were after)
HungryJoe : Undecided
dylan41985 : Seriously wtf? Have you given up? Probably pro town but could be anything
Adel : Pro-Town
Numenorean7 : Pro-Town
curiouskarmadog : Scum
Mastermind of Sin : Pro-Town
pickemgenius : Undecided
ThAdmiral : Undecided

vote:curiouskarmadog

[Crub]

Man my post sounds rushed reading 18 pages took a lot out of me

[Crub]

Why I put it together, Crub, maybe you can share why you feel, Kate is scum…

The only reason I think Kate is scum is because I think you are scum, and I think there is a connection between Kate and You. I'm basing this on, as I said before how Kate reacted to Tromboners, No Lynch and how you attacked her for 2 pages and then gave up your attack because kate appealed to your "poetic side"

Man my post sounds rushed reading 18 pages took a lot out of me

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

Personally I don't think you can tell much from a person's position in a bandwagon the whole thing seems WIFOM to me. Having said that I'm not trying to get in early, I'm trying to get in on the right target.

[Crub]

DUDE, you really need to go reread this thread again...your facts are VERY wrong....this only helps my case against this scum..when I get sometime this weekend...I will prove it.

Sure I'll re-read completely probably tomorrow. In the meantime I've re-read everything since you've joined ... All you've done is voted dylan (jumping on the bandwagon) ... tried to bandwagon kate with no evidence then jumped off when no one seemed interested ... and now jumped onto J-Man/Me ... You seemed convinced that you'll be able to "prove" that I'm scum, and so far all your theories are based on me being scum. What I want to hear is your take on the game based on me not being scum.

[Crub]

What I want to hear is your take on the game based on me not being scum.

I'm still waiting to hear why ckd thinks you are scum.

Well that too but I'm assuming thats already "coming"

[Crub]

EBWOP :
Also my reckoning from CKD's posts as to why I'm scum is because when J-Man was being bandwagoned kate "defended" j-man and therefore we are both scum.

[Crub]

Well first of all I hope you're scum because if not you've just wasted a lot of effort proving that I'm scum.

I cannot really justify any of the J-Man stuff. I can however say that I think 2 voting No Lynch is a newbie scum sort of thing to do, so I agree with J-Man's attempt to get a bandwagon going. It's a pity everyone believed his "oh I just wanted to see who would jump on" explanation that he gave, considering he was the one to jump on in the first place. I agree that most of J-Man's posts were very erratic and he seemed to fade in and out of playing the VI and the clueless newbie, but this does not mean that I am scum.

In response to the bits where you have targetted me.

Either lies or misreads…NabNab appeals to my poetic side, not Kate (post 355)…so is NabNab scum, not Kate? You just need a reason to be on the wagon..any wagon.

At any rate, from the beginning Crub has joined bandwagon after bandwagon. He has added nothing to the conversation…I think he is opportunistic, scummy, and demonstrates he does not care who he votes…

I'm sorry I misread the poetic side comment, however you do use that comment as your reason to abandon your attempt to bandwagon Kate, which is what I was getting at.

As for bandwagoning I assume when you say Crub you mean J-Man and Crub because all I've done is vote you. Also I haven't added anything much to the conversation because since I've joined I've been waiting for these posts.

Also you've used my initial feelings to point out who my "scum-buddies" are. In retrospect it probably wasn't the wisest way to put my post. However in my defence I had just spent 2 hours re-reading the thread and come to the conclusion that J-Man had left me standing on shaky ground. With this in mind I thought it best to write it how I saw everyone at that point in time.

I still think you are probably scum, because a lot of your argument you are making pretty big leaps. However if you are town, I'm truly sorry because your read on J-Man and me is off.

[Crub]

(btw Crub, saying you have made no contribution other than voting is a big no-no).

I meant it in the context of "hopping on bandwagon after bandwagon".

[Crub]

unvote: ckd

More coming in the middle of a re-read.

[Crub]

Ok I've re-read and taken notes I need a while to digest everything and post my conclusions.

[Crub]

I really don't think that dylan is scum. I think he's misguided in thinking that lurking and coming by once in a while to cast a vote is a pro-town thing to do. Dylan seriously if you don't think you can add anything to the game except for a vote on a bandwagon then you should seek a replacement.

Having said that

vote pickem

. I agree with MoS as to why pickem is scum. He was inconsistent when it came to the J-Man lynch.

Also CKD, you're "adamant" that I'm scum, I don't know what I can do to convince you otherwise because it seems as if your mind is made up. Can I just ask you

again

. If I'm lynched and turn out to be town, who do you think is scum? Like you I'm happy to be lynched even though I'm a townie as long as we can get enough information from my lynch to lynch a scum tomorrow. What I don't want is to be lynched and then you to go "oh shii ... he was town there go's my theory".

Also

FoS ThAdmiral

. I think your voting on J-Man was also suspicious. Firstly ThAdmiral was very insistent that J-Man come out and claim his power role, and even starts to fish for a doc/cop roleclaim.

He should see by now that if he is a power role he should just claim.

Oh I see. Well his language now indicates to me that he is a power role, or at least that he is implying that he is.
If he is a doc that can't protect himself then that will be extremely unlucky for everyone (except the mafia), although I don't see why a doc would have been so eager to get to night.
If he is a power role I'm thinking he will be cop, as when I've been cop I can't wait to get to night to investigate someone. If he is then I don't see that as being detrimental to the town: I've seen many games where an early cop claim has lead the town to victory.

He even suggests that J-Man is cop, or "clever" scum but still comes to the conclusion that J-Man is the play for today! (I don't think anyone will agree that J-Man played a clever game no matter what my role)

@ everyone else: I still think he's the best play, but since there's no deadline there's no harm in discussing his claim post before further action. It isn't entirely without a ring of truth.

I see what you mean here. I think I wrote something like his post when I was starting out, feeling helpless in the face of a first day lynch. Although I've seen clever scum do similar things as well, I don't think a clever scum would have tried to rush a quick lynch in so early in a game.

If he is scum, then well done sir for putting so much doubt in my mind.
That being said I'm not quite ready to unvote just yet.

When MoS called him out on this reasoning he quickly unvotes, and then go's into his shell.

Alright, settle down. Firstly I didn't think that he was in so much danger that an unvote was necessary, especially since you had just unvoted. I was actually interested in seeing if anyone else, say an anxious scum, wanted to jump on and put him back to -1 to try to push through a lynch. However, since I've now revealed my plan I might as well...

Unvote

I guess I also stayed on because I thought that even if he is town he's been playing badly, and I guess I just didn't feel like letting him off the hook so easily. Not a pro-town sentiment, perhaps, but it's how I felt. So, whatever.

Since then he has contributed hardly anything except for pushing the bandwagon at the time (both dylan's and ckd - although he didn't vote for ckd).

[Crub]

Having said that

vote pickem

. I agree with MoS as to why pickem is scum. He was inconsistent when it came to the J-Man lynch.

Care to come up with your own reason, and even that reason is pretty weak, atleast give us something new for us to discuss.

No wonder no one has been lynched if everyone who votes has to supply a different reason.

Anyway your actions during the J-Man bandwagon seemed scummy to me. From the start you directed suspicion at J-Man while being very hands off, it's like you didn't want to be involved with the lynching of an innocent townie.

First you convinced dylan to start the bandwagon :

You're right in the fact that J-man has been somewhat vocal about your lynch.
Thats a fair point.
A bandwagon doesn't start out of thin air.
If people agree with you, then they might vote for him.

Then you agree that we should be putting pressure on J-Man to get information yet you don't vote for him:

While however unsmart it may be for J-man to be at L-2 relatively early, it's not a bad thing really, it's building pressure and is giving him a chance to defend himself, so we can have a logical decision on wheter or not he is or is not scum.

We see how he reacts to X(5) amount of votes being placed on him.

Yeah if he defends himself, we can tell if it is good or not, and make more progress from there.

I don't know/see many townies offering themselves to be killed, it's not really smart, but that's just me.

And then as MoS already pointed out you laid out why you thought J-Man was scum and yet still didn't vote.

My vibe-o-meter™ just went from wishy washy to more likely scum. I'm not really happy with his last few posts.

Adel wrote:
why are you not scum? What have you done that is pro-town? Who is a better candidate for scum than you? What have they done that is anti-town?


I felt that you only answered latter two.
Town members NEED to defend themselves always.

The afformentioned scummy vibes i've recently got is that in my first game ever (Newbie 334) one of the scum didn't post a defense for himself, and only listed a suspicion list. So it's almost like deja-vu, with a different person.


I do agree that we need everyone to comment on J-man, so that we don't come to a hasty conclusion.

I hope that meets your requirements for a reason?

[Crub]

EBWOP:
First you convinced

tromboner

to start the bandwagon :

[Crub]

First: I didn't talk talk him into starting a J-man bandwagon.
It was just weird that he was all J-man=scum, so I'll vote mole to see if I can save my ass, so I explained that if he feels he has a solid point, then somebody has to start the bandwagon, and at that time I really didn't find J-man scummy.

You say you didn't find J-Man scummy but two posts later you agree with CarrotCake over his suspicions of J-Man?

J-Man seems to want to kill so badly, he wants it more than information. Lurking and NoLynch are mistakes, but he should not be killed quickly for it. Especially because the game is still young.

Or I could be wrong, im new too.
CC eyes J-man suspiciously

I think you're pretty spot-on.
That's just me though.
And I don't think it's a want to kill so badly, as much as J-man wants the game to progress exponentially faster then it should.

Second: There was alot of pressure already on J-man, with 5 votes.
I wanted to see his defense first, as I wasn't getting many scummy vibes from him, so basically it would have been unneccessary/stupid for me to add a "pressure" vote and put him at L-1

I don't think it would have been stupid. As it turns out it was unnecessary because he claimed at L-2 anyway, although he did say that he wouldn't have claimed a PR until L-1.

Third: Yes, my reason for thinking he could be scum was very shitty though(as has been said before, and I've admitted to), I don't believe in dropping a hammer on somebody for a very shitty reason. I wanted more of a defense aswell from him.

So question to you: You say I should have dropped the hammer on J-man, why should I have, when my reason was very shitty?

If you thought he was scum you should have hammered him. If you didn't think he was scum you shouldn't have made a post giving anyone else a reason to hammer him.

Informal Vote Count by my reckoning :
ckd: 3
dylan : 3
MoS : 1
pickem : 2

[Crub]

@Crub: I find your argument on Pickem at least slightly less convincing because you're trying to define veiws on scum as binary. "I either think he's scum, or I think he's town," and in a game with so little information, shades of grey tend to creep in.

This has just really confused me. My feelings are based on the same things as MoS as I already pointed out ... I just tried to show other instances where pickem was involved in pushing the J-Man bandwagon without actually getting on. Pretty much everyone in the game has acted scummy at one point or another even if it was a one off incident. I'm not suggesting that everything pickem has done in the game is scummy, I'm just saying that I found his vote and his posts inconsistent.

If you are trying to exagerate your argument, please stop.

The only reason why I posted more examples to further my argument is that pickem asked me to. I'm not saying this is concrete evidence I'm just offering reasons as to what posts helped me come to the conclusion that pickem could be scum.

If you are applying your own methods to Pickem, please stop thinking of scum that way.

What do you mean by this? It makes no sense to me.

[Crub]

Yes fair enough, I understand what you were getting at I'm new to this too and found it hard to express what I was thinking in response to the "should I have hammered?" question. If he thought he

might

be scum there is no real benefit to lay down a one sided post detailing what makes him more-likely to be scum, other than to convince other people that he is scum.

Also kate : J-Man was at L-1

[Crub]

Mod:

does J-man have 2 or 3 votes?

I don't really know why he asked this. Anyway he could have just checked for himself.

Per made a mistake in the vote count ... he was pointing it out. You really need to read the whole thread not just his posts ...

[Crub]

unvote pickem, vote ThAdmiral

See post 546 for reasons + adding pressure

[Crub]

No Way! He has never once jumped on himself when he was the biggest bandwagon! Come on guys read the thread - you're all a bunch of lying scum!

/sarcasm

[Crub]

Dylan is now at L-2, am I correct?

Crub seems to be moving his vote around a lot. Not necessarily bad, but I'm just pointing it out.

Nope I think he's at L-3

Yes since I replaced in I've voted ckd, pickem and now admiral. However with the deadline approaching I'm just trying to help use my vote to get more information, from the people I consider most likely to be scum.

[Crub]

EBWOP Oops yes he is at L-2

[Crub]

I don't get it. I'm getting voted since I presented my case on dylan, even though I've had my vote on him for weeks now.

My comment about him being a useless, or even worse, mafia-helping town, is valid in my opinion. If you don't like it, ignore it and focus on the rest of the case against him (which I think is fairly strong anyway). It was only supposed to be an extra reason to vote him on top of everything else.

I'm actually starting to get fed up with all this talk of "lynching for information". I thought the idea of the game was to lynch who you thought was most likely to be scum.

The idea is to lynch the person you think is most likely to be scum ... the problem is when the scum subvert justice and there's a mis-lynch we need to have something to go on for tomorrow.

[Crub]

Sorry for my inactivity This thread moves so fast ... To be quite honest I don't think either Adel or Num are scum, let alone partners. I'd be more inclined to think MoS and dylan are scum partners than either Adel or Num simply because I get the feeling that he has been involved in everything except the dylan bandwagon.

[Crub]

unvote: ThAdmiral vote:Master of Sin

for power role hunting.

unvote ThAdmiral, vote Master of Sin

I'm willing to see where this go's

[Crub]

Crub, I just don't get this. Neither of you have provided any quotes or solid evidence for your votes, and this one by crub is practically shouting "I'M SCUM!".
However, I've got to give you a chance - please explain?

Basically I'm getting tired of MoS leading a charge against player after player, only to turn around after the vanilla claim, or loss of interest to start off in a new direction. Now that we are at 27 pages putting together a detailed pbpa takes upwards of hours, so as I said in my vote I'm willing to see where 2 votes on MoS go's. It's not like I've put him at L-1.

Also for someone who made 9 meaningful posts in the first 24 pages of this thread I'm not so sure you should be asking anyone to explain. To be honest I'm waiting for you to post some content instead of the quote sniping which is all you seem to do so I can actually get a decent read on you.

[Crub]

ckd I'm surprised your not taking up this chance to get a vote on the "leader" of your scum group?

[Crub]

So why not vote earlier?
Seems like a huge coincidence to vote straight after Adel in the same way, and providing no reason up till now.

I have to agree with MSG in fingering Crub for dropping his vote at the time he did if the reasoning could have come pages ago, and I think it also applies to you. If this was really about power-role fishing, you would have said so back when he was positing an Adel-Num scumgroup, not now.

Umm this was my first post since MoS suggested an Adel/Num scumgroup. My vote for him is in direct response to that. And J-Man, CKD, Pickem, Admiral/Num, and now Adel/Num.

Also mole I feel justified pointing out that you've been pretty inactive until now.

I don't get this. You mean that you think ckd is scum and you're just poking fun?

No I'm pointing out that ckd laid down this huge case why me adel and MoS are scum buddies and MoS is the craftiest of our little scumgroup. Yet he still thinks Adel is the play?

[Crub]

EBWOP By "Huge" I meant in terms of quantity not quality just pointing that out.

[Crub]

^^ Because a lynch for Dylan would still go through without her vote, and she doesn't want to look bad by being one of the four people on the wagon.
Just a guess.

Does anyone else find this post strange? That's not why I think she unvoted dylan.

[Crub]

Is anyone not completely confused by this game? I get the feeling no matter who we lynch and no matter if they're town or scum I'll have not much of an idea who is scum for tomorrow.

Can we get an updated votecount please?

[Crub]

Is anyone not completely confused by this game? I get the feeling no matter who we lynch and no matter if they're town or scum I'll have not much of an idea who is scum for tomorrow.

Can we get an updated votecount please?

speak for yourself

Well I suppose the mafia like yourself know exactly whats going on.

[Crub]

Is anyone not completely confused by this game? I get the feeling no matter who we lynch and no matter if they're town or scum I'll have not much of an idea who is scum for tomorrow.

Can we get an updated votecount please?

speak for yourself

Well I suppose the mafia like yourself know exactly whats going on.

Where is your vote again? Oh right, following Adel.

It's on MoS ... you know the person you think is the leader of the scum group

[Crub]

I also think that this thread will stall with MoS under the spotlight but unable to post. At least Tar will have a few days to catch-up I'm interested to hear Tar's thoughts a new perspective is always good

[Crub]

Haha I like where this is going Is thespival over yet?

[Crub]

Yeah like kate said ... if I knew someone willing to stand by and say nothing as people got killed around him yeah I'd want him to get replaced.

[Crub]

I've gotten quite a few players lynched on Day 1 who turned out to be

scum

, so I am more cautious now.

Yeah don't wont to lynch those scum?

[Crub]

unvote MoS

I'm taking my vote off MoS because I'm no longer convinced that his confidence in attacking person after person is him being scum.

I've read over MoS's reasoning on why Adel is scum and while it starts off pretty convincing I feel towards the end of his pbpa I found his reasons to be reaching.

If I had to choose one person right now to be lynched it would be ThAdmiral for reasons which I pointed out earlier that were never explained or defended by him.

vote ThAdmiral

[Crub]

I'm not agreeing with what you say I'm saying that I put my vote on MoS to see what would happen and now I've seen and I'm moving back to ThAdmiral.

[Crub]

man it takes a vacation to put a game in perspective....I hate to say this, but I think I am going to have to give this whole thread a reread...christ.

I guess we'll hear from you next weekend then

[Crub]

I don't see the problem asking someone who was at Thespival
"At Thespival when MoS was townie did he generally act confidently agressive towards someone he thought was scum and then do a complete 180, with minimal new evidence?"

It doesn't reference this game and still allows you to get a feel for MoS's recent town playstyle. Personally I don't see why it's that big of a deal. I'm willing to accept that's just the way MoS is playing this game, and I don't think he would of suggested asking people at Thespival if he didn't think they would back him up.

That said, I aplogise ThAdmiral for not referencing which post, but I just use the filter by user thing at the bottom which would have cut your searching down to 38 posts (my contributiuon so far).

You wanted examples of where you pushed the ckd bandwagon:

But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia.

rubbed me the wrong way, as it seemed to be trying to not-so-subtly imply he was town as well. Something I don't think real towns do. His explanation is acceptable, but I still feel iffy on that line.

@CKD Why waste time second guessing what people are going to do and pre-gloating over how wrong everyone is when you could have spent the time on this supposed sunday post of yours.
This sort of behaviour doesn't help, it only makes you look more flustered, pressured and afraid of being lynched. It also seems as if you are just trying to create this "post" out of nothing and are trying to buy time.

@CKD Yet more time wasted when you could be posting the "crub-is-scum-super-post".
I just don't see why you're so sure you're going to be lynched when two people before have been in the exact same position as you and then been overlooked. Wrongly overlooked, I feel. Which is why my vote remains on dylan.

Also I find it a tad ironic that you think someone is scum because :

He just ticks a few scummy boxes for me:
- Doesn't post very often, so stays under radar
- Hasn't mounted a strong case against anyone (he did pbp's of dylan and ckd I think, but then didn't end up voting for them), so hasn't really put his opinion out there to be criticized as much as other people
- MoS's case of pushing bandwagons while not getting on them
- As I made mention before is one of a few possible scumbuddies with dylan
And finally...
- I've got a gut feeling

1. Check
2. Check (except for the weak case on dylan)
3. Check
4. Not a valid reason
5. Gut Feeling? Scumtell much?

[Crub]

Ooops missed one thing that I wanted to mention :

Honestly I don't want to change my vote though. I don't want to no-lynch, and at this rate it seems we will. Even though the general rule is that the longer the day the better for the town, there has to be some sort of limit, right?

Does anyone else find that statement strange? Surely it's implicit if your townie that you don't want a no-lynch, why do you feel the need to come out and state it, out of the blue. There was no deadline approaching?

[Crub]

You can read my posts if you want to see why I placed my vote on someone.

Actually I'm thinking maybe a MoS/ckd scum pairing is possible. I find it suspicious that ckd who is still claiming that out of me/Adel/MoS two are scum wouldn't take the opportunity to get on a bandwagon on MoS until the last minute, and then when he did vote MoS he votes because "I thought that Adel (mainly) or Crub would back out of the vote before anyone could hammer."

Your entire reasoning on a Me/Adel/MoS scum group is completely flawed, as was pointed out by numerous people, yet you still try and push it.

[Crub]

You can read my posts if you want to see why I placed my vote on someone.

Actually I'm thinking maybe a MoS/ckd scum pairing is possible. I find it suspicious that ckd who is still claiming that out of me/Adel/MoS two are scum wouldn't take the opportunity to get on a bandwagon on MoS until the last minute, and then when he did vote MoS he votes because "I thought that Adel (mainly) or Crub would back out of the vote before anyone could hammer."

Your entire reasoning on a Me/Adel/MoS scum group is completely flawed, as was pointed out by numerous people, yet you still try and push it.

please reread my post thoroughly before you post in the future.

Care to elaborate?

[Crub]

Jesus, Crub… If you read my post thoroughly you would not have posted what you did…unless you are trying to push false info…

Your entire reasoning on a Me/Adel/MoS scum group is completely flawed, as was pointed out by numerous people, yet you still try and push it.

I said..

In review, I feel like the Adel, Crub, MoS connection is most likely not probable.

Does that sound like I am pushing the Adel, Crub, MoS scum group? What I said was I feel like there is 2 from this group that are most likely scum.

Actually I'm thinking maybe a MoS/ckd scum pairing is possible. I find it suspicious that ckd who is still claiming that out of me/Adel/MoS two are scum wouldn't take the opportunity to get on a bandwagon on MoS until the last minute, and then when he did vote MoS he votes because "I thought that Adel (mainly) or Crub would back out of the vote before anyone could hammer."

what is strange about that? I thought you guys were tied together, I wanted to see who would jump out first as to not to hang their scum buddy…but NabNab jumped out first…I have also stated, that if the votes swell against MoS again, I might switch my vote again to him…

see if you had read my post, I wouldn’t have to be spoon feeding you all the information out of it, correcting your..misunderstanding?

I have read the thread and your “explanations”…I was asking if it was a coincidence that everytime the town suspicions change, so does your vote….why is that?

First, please try to keep it friendly, I'm here to have fun.
Second, you say 2 out of 3 people you previously pointed out are scum without adding any new information. This to me is still pushing your case. If you don't think that pushing 2 of 3 people is still pushing a case on 3 people, I'm sorry but I have to disagree.
Third, if you thought there was a good case against MoS, I find it suspicious that you would be on a counter-wagon to MoS's wagon. Jumping on MoS for the reason that you wanted to see who would unvote is unnecessary, and in my opinion flimsy.

an another thing, Crub, if you think that MoS and myself are scum..then tell me again where your vote is?

Well if you want me to vote for you .... ok

unvote, vote ckd

[Crub]

You are still pushing the same 3 players! Even if you say that you only think 2 out of 3 are scum you are still pushing the same 3 players. You're entire reasoning for thinking that me/adel/MoS is scum is flawed! Therefore continuing to push the same 3 players (even 2 out of 3) without any new information means you are still pushing the same 3 players based on your flawed reasoning. If you have new reasoning behind why you think 2 out of 3 of us are scum then I'd like to hear it. If you don't then your suspicion of us in my opinion is pretty much baseless.

I didn't need to provide any new information with my Admiral vote because as I said when I voted, the previous reasoning I gave for my Admiral vote hadn't been addressed.

This conversation and the things I've pointed out, along with your excessive "defensiveness" is the 'new' reason why I'm voting you.

I dont care if you find that fact that I openly say I will switch my vote to MoS if I need to, suspicious

That was Num7 not me. Having said that you might not care but that doesn't change the fact that it is suspicious.

What possible pro-town reason is there for being on a counter-wagon to someone who you think is probably scum? Even if you think that the person you are on is probably scum I do not like that you were one of the first people to make a case against MoS and yet when a wagon on him starts you immediately hop onto the counter-wagon to him. It does not make sense.

[Crub]

Crub, I want you to know that you are solely responsible for the aneurysm that I am probably going to have bantering with you. “Excessive defensiveness”? I thought I was answering your questions. Crub, from here on out, I am not going to acknowledge you until you read the thread…or at least, read your own posts…

I dont care if you find that fact that I openly say I will switch my vote to MoS if I need to, suspicious

That was Num7 not me. Having said that you might not care but that doesn't change the fact that it is suspicious.

you said…

Third, if you thought there was a good case against MoS, I find it suspicious that you would be on a counter-wagon to MoS's wagon.

I have provided my reasons why I think each of you are individually scummy. I was beginning to add your constant pushing of false information for another reason your scummy, but I now understand that it is something different. If you can not even recall what you said three posts ago (or go back and read it before you post) then I cant imagine you being able to remember the reasons I stated that the three of you are scummy (individually)….so when I get a moment I will post them AGAIN for you Crub. Until then, I am done with this conversation with you. I feel like I am trying to explain colors to a blind person…just not going to happen. We are going around in circles, and I doubt this is helping the town.

I guess we can just ignore each other for the rest of the game because YOU MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL!!!!

[Crub]

Has there been a serious push on kate ever? I can't seem to remember one if there had been (and I can't really be bothered checking through the whole thread).

IIRC, around the time CKD and I replaced in, there was some suspicion directed against Kate, but never more than 1 or 2 votes.

ckd accused kate for being scum-partnered with J-Man and then changed his mind.
I accused kate for being scum-partnered with CKD, and then changed my mind.
Other than that I can't remember kate being under fire.

I hope Per gets back soon and deadlines this day has gone on way too long.

also ckd+MoS = scum.

[Crub]

I was bored at work so I had some fun

Listen to my cow. She knows all

[Crub]

EBWOP: Idea shamelessly stolen from Mr. Stoofer in an old Mini I read last week.

[Crub]

You forgot to mention that the cow is never wrong in your reasoning

[Crub]

I understand fully where Adel is coming from she doesn't think that your bandwagon will grow.

Why do you have to always resort to personal insults when someone says you're scum? It detracts from the fun of the game.

Also I'd just like to point out that the CKD + MoS scumteam are following each other around

[Crub]

EBWOP: The you in my previous post was ckd. NabNab hadn't posted when I started writing.

[Crub]

I do not think this day should go any longer, than the deadline. Right now I think no matter who gets lynched, town or scum, we will have a lot more information to go on tomorrow. As long as a power role does not get lynched.

If the town agrees I am happy to be lynched, because I am Vanilla town so the town will not lose so much, and the scum will not gain so much. Maybe if I am lynched and when I'm confirmed town, the rest of you townies might actually listen to what I have to say.

Let me say this ... you may not agree with my playstyle this game ... this is not how I normally play. I am very frustrated because I feel like the scum are controlling the day and the rest of the town are running around like chickens with no heads. I feel that I am helpless to bring anyones attention, to this.

There is a good case against ckd. Go back and look at the case against him earlier in the thread. Nothing was addressed by ckd. The two wall of words posts that got ckd off the hook was a far fetched attack on me, Adel, and MoS and how we were scum partners. I think while those two posts seemed townlike, I still suspect him for the same reasons that were pointed out during that bandwagon.

Also anytime anyone points suspicion at ckd, he gets very defensive, resorts to personal insults, and generally gets very jittery. I am convinced he is scum.

I will also point out that anytime there is discussion about ckd, MoS avoids the discussion or tries to steer it in a different direction. I will also point out that one of the only times that MoS has not been outspoken about his opinions is when he was voting for ckd.

I want to also mention again that ckd's actions during the MoS bandwagon, were not consistent with his views of MoS at the time.

There is a link between MoS and ckd.
This is my honest opinion.

[Crub]

I want to point something else out. You may think that my playstyle in this game has been immature or whatever. The way I see it, generally I'm an easy going friendly type of guy. When I play a game I want to have fun. If I say person x is scum and his only response is, to attack me with personal insults, the game is no longer fun for me. If I point this out (as I did) and that person still continues to resort to personal insults, I really think the mod should step in. One person should not be allowed to ruin the fun of someone else playing the game. From my experience in this game, I will never ever replace in to a game again. If it wasn't for my other games in which I am having a really good time I would probably step away from this site altogether.

If you take someone accusing you of being scum personally, and the only way you can respond is to make a personal attack on the person accusing you, then I don't think mafia is the game for you.

You may not like my cow or my opinions. I'm just trying to lighten the mood.

I will leave you all to continue to ignore me.

[Crub]

I don't read Num7 being scumbuddies with ckd.
I think probably one of MSG or Admiral are most likely also scum.
I am wary of Tar and dylan.
I have a pro-town feeling about Adel, Nab, Num, Pickem.

[Crub]

Considering those 5 posts are the most outspoken you've been about ckd in 41 pages, and comparing that to what you've said about say Adel or Pickem. Yes you have definitely been less outspoken about ckd. I didn't say you had avoided him altogether. It's practically impossible to avoid anyone altogether in 41 pages.

[Crub]

To address the Dylan vote, I'm going to say that I have few qualms with allowing a ThAdmiral lynch to go through as I've already stated that I find him scummy, even if it comes by the hands of our VI. If ThAdmiral comes up town, I will seriously reconsider Dylan's towniness.

Either way, It's out of my hands.

I agree with the view that ThAdmiral seems scummy. But I don't know if you could turn a town Admiral into dylanscum. If you believe his VI act is townie then this would just be another VI move by dylan.

Having said that I think we are almost at the point where we will need to lynch dylan before we get to endgame, because I certainly wouldn't want him alive in any lylo situation.

[Crub]

@Num : I'm here I find it amusing that with 45 pages of content you think the best play is to go after the lurkers?

[Crub]

@Admiral, At least I've got enough steak to last me for the rest of this game.

[Crub]

And I wouldn't be too surprised if he continued to push for my lynch and turned out to be scum a second time. It is perfectly conceivable to me that he would be dead wrong about me yet still be a valuable asset to the town. Since he was the cop, I'm sure he had suspicions that he didn't give voice to (waiting for the investigation). I want to know what they were. Also, I wasn't lynched yesterday, so I suspect that he didn't really want to lynch me.

Is anyone else raising their eyebrow at this post?

[Crub]

Maybe 3 hours less reading for a prospective replacement?

[Crub]

EBWOP: Not saying I agree just offering a reason

[Crub]

I don't really think someone would defend their scumbuddy in another game, I mean, what would be the point?

I don't know maybe they got confused as to what game they were reading?

[Crub]

I REMEMBER NOW.

Alright. Adel messaged me to replace in this game shortly after I volunteered to Per, as indicated by the post I asked Per to make. I don't know if I'm allowed to quote pms from other players, but I don't think Adel will lie about this either.

Note that I mislynched Adel twice when she was a doctor, so she thinks I'm going to go easy on her with some of her WIFOM. The only reason why she would want to play me again is to get a chance to ridicule me. This makes perfect sense to me. She would never invite me to play if she were town, because we obviously don't work together well as a team.

This fits her personality perfectly, and she would have no reason to ask me were she town.

Haha are you sober now?

[Crub]

If you think he is useless as town, imagine the dismay of his partners if he is scum!

Adel are you dismayed?

[Crub]

to answer your question Crub, I am not dismayed.

Cool That quote just came to mind after Admiral's post

[Crub]

I also noticed how Dylan jumped in to defend Adel. This struck me as uncharacteristic. He doesn't defend anyone much (other than himself, of course).

Dude, he hasn't sounded that

coherent

so far in this game. Talk about uncharacteristic. Would his playstyle make sense if he were an SK? Is our VI just a master SK playing dumb like he is staring in The Legend of Drunken Master? This whole VI idea is messing with my head. I wish we had a cop investigation on him.

What gives you the idea that there is even a SK? I get the impression the setup is probably 3 Mafia, 1 Cop, 1 Doc, 7 Vanilla. Sure it's possible, but I don't buy it. This is how he plays every game from what I've read.

The thing is if we get to endgame and dylan is still around we are going to be WIFOM'd to death by him.

[Crub]

Yes I am saying if we don't lynch him today we should lynch him tomorrow, just because he plays consistently scummy.

The only thing that he has going for him at this point is MoS's insistence that Dylan was town.

[Crub]

At some point he is something that we are going to have to deal with. I hope I get lynched or NK'd before the game comes down to some townie deciding if dylan or someone else is scum. I don't think he should be lynched today or tomorrow though, unless that is end game.

I totally don't want winning or losing coming down to someone deciding whether or not dylan is scum. If my setup hypothesis is right then a mis-lynch today puts us at LYLO tomorrow (unless we hit lucky with a doc protect). Therefore if we are going to lynch dylan for being the VI we should do it today.

[Crub]

Based on the very first sentence in the opening post :

Time for a normal, non-flavoured, typical game of Mafia!

I'm more inclined to believe we are playing 3/1/1/7.

I agree we should use dylan more as a last resort.

[Crub]

It's possible I suppose, he never claimed vanilla, just "Innocent". PR speculation doesn't do much to help us though.

[Crub]

I've had this idea in my head that I'm waiting for something in this game? Now I've got this idea in my head that I was waiting for a replacement and we've already got one.

I really want to make a case on someone ... but I really don't want to have to re-read the entire thread. This game has got to be the most "hard work" game ever, and boy am I lazy.

Is this the current state of suspicion?
Pickem <- Adel, ABR
Kate <- Adel, Tar
Num7 <- Adel, NabNab, Tar
Admiral <- Adel, NabNab, dylan
dylan <- Num7, Admiral
ABR <- Num7, Tar
Adel <- Admiral, ABR

[Crub]

We do know MoS was pro-town, but we do not know how accurate a scumhunter he is. At least some of his suspicions (CKD, myself) were false.

a) I didn't think MoS suspected ckd, in fact I thought he was on MoS's pro-town list.
b) You might be a confirmed innocent to yourself but not for anyone else.

What about you? You don't mention yourself at all.

I don't want to point finger's of suspicion based on "feeling" and that's all I have at the moment until I re-read.

[Crub]

@Crub: Why is it fair for you to attempt to document everybody else's suspicions but keep yours a secret? Are you waiting to see what the safest suspicions to hold are?

Not trying to "document" everyone elses suspicions, just trying to get my head around where we're at.

My feeling list if it'll make you feel any better:

Queasy

dylan

Unqueasy

kate
adel

Uneasy

tar
num7
abr
admiral

Easy

pickem
nabnab

[Crub]

I'm going to

vote:dylan

I actually think he's scum. I'm very suspicious of the Adel/dylan and kate/dylan interaction.

[Crub]

What is "Queasy" ?

You know that feeling in your stomach when you feel like you want to vomit but you're not quite there?

[Crub]

Dylan41985 is being replaced.

Yay!

[Crub]

Wow welcome back MoS

unvote

[Crub]

I await mos' adel analysis.

[Crub]

Tar: do you want to say anything about your no-reason-supplied vote for adel? It seemed a little random especially since the last I can remember you were talking about one of me, pickem or Num7 as most-likely scum.

I also want to hear what Tar has to say about that vote on Adel

I don't see much difference between these two comments. But then you say

Given Kate's response, I now believe that at least one of {Kate, Adel} is town.

ThAdmiral, by way of contrast, just shot up on my scumdar (again).

Kate asked for explanation instead of attacking me. Given this less vehement reaction, I believe that Kate and Adel are not likely to be scumbuddies

ThAdmiral's request for explanation, however, felt scummy to me - like a scum trying to fish for a way to make a townie look bad.

I find this extremely bizzare: two reactions with no real difference, but they get opposite reactions from you.

FoS: Tar

pending explanation.

He already explicitly said he was looking for a reaction from Kate based on his observations of Kate in an earlier game?

[Crub]

I don't think I need to tell anyone that MoS being cop wasn't even a remote possibility for me.

[Crub]

I'm still here, I'm just still waiting for mos' analysis.

You might be waiting for a while.

vote:Adel

I can see what MoS was getting at.

Also this puts Adel at L-1.

[Crub]

I have no clue what you meant by any of that.

I think he meant "Hi I'm scum with Adel and Num7"

[Crub]

I have no clue what you meant by any of that.

I think he meant "Hi I'm scum with Adel and Num7"

No, but thanks for playing.

Read and learn.

Umm yeah I've already read it ... WTF

are

you trying to say?

All I'm seeing is a major over-reaction to Adel's post ... and now that you've reacted in such a way it makes me think that there's truth to it

[Crub]

Oh sorry I get it now

You were actually saying "Hi I'm scum with Adel and MoS"?

It's ok we've got atleast 1 mis-lynch to figure it out.

[Crub]

unvote

Grr

[Crub]

I'm sorry ABR but Tar is scum you didn't see how he lost it when adel outed him?

[Crub]

What are you talking about?

Discussion in this thread :
viewtopic.php?t=5726

[Crub]

From the thread I linked earlier ... the comment I assume Num7 is referring to.

What Meta did - unless I missed him quoting a mod PM - was a steel-balls gambit, similar to one that Vesuvan did in Star Wars Mafia on Tings. A godfather, going down, "blows his cool" and "outs his partners". If you hadn't made it clear he was telling the truth, the town would not have know if he was simply fingering people

who were not actually his scum partners

as scum.

[Crub]

I think Per is at Uni and has no computer, he posted in V/LA that he'd be back on the 8th, so I darno He hasn't checked in, in the other game I'm playing with him since saturday though

[Crub]

well that was unexpected

vote: tar

[Crub]

Why isn't everyone on the Tar wagon? Did no one else see the self-destruct when Adel "didn't claim"?

[Crub]

I lose it whenever anyone tries to pull a stunt like Metatron pulled in 431.

Tar : Self-destruct, self-destruct

Num7 : it could be a gambit

Tar : Oh shi ....

[Crub]

words ...

[Crub]

words ...

:nothelpful:

Because you know scum always vote one after the other on every single wagon that's just how scum roll.

[Crub]

On the other hand, that townie lynch would probably put the town at LyLo.

Hmm I don't think so ... we probably have at least 2 mis-lynches before lylo, I'm assuming 3 scum.

[Crub]

Crub: Likely scum. Crub was the third vote on the Day 1 MoS wagon, and seemed to hop onto many wagons shortly after Adel (and, to a lesser extent, Num7) started/joined them. In fact, I think that Crub is likely scum regardless of Num7's alignment: if Num7 is town, then Crub makes the most sense for Adel's scumbuddy given his bandwagoning tendencies and reaction to MoS, and if Num7 is scum, his continued attacks on me when a better lynch candidate exists (Num7) reek of scum deflection.

Confirm HoS: Crub

Ok so wait ... now that your other case on me is confirmed ridiculous you find it necessary to build a new case? I haven't made continued attacks on you ... All I've said is that your self-destruct at Adel's gambit gave a lot away. I personally would not be surprised if Tar and MoS are the last 2 scums. Just based on Adel's gambit solely. I accept that Num probably will be today's lynch but there is no way I'm going to be the hammerer.

[Crub]

Good to know that Crub not only bases his assumptions on things that were said by someone who knew the game was up, but that he's also unwilling to respond to accusations made against him.

/ignore.

Heh nice. It's not based on what Adel said but on the way Tar reacted.

[Crub]

You sure changed your tune overnight MoS.

[Crub]

Good to know that Crub not only bases his assumptions on things that were said by someone who knew the game was up, but that he's also unwilling to respond to accusations made against him.

/ignore.

Heh nice. It's not based on what Adel said but on the way Tar reacted.

Yet you said both Tar AND myself were scum based on her gambit, which means that you're basing it on what Adel said, because I highly doubt you have an argument that's going to convince anyone that Tar's reaction implicates me as scum.

I said I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be scum just because of Tar's reaction. To me it lent an amount of truth to Adel's gambit and you were apart of that.

Don't worry MoS if Num7 turns out to be scum I don't think you have much to worry about anyway ... it's if he turns out to be town that's bothering me.

[Crub]

It's because I'm stupid, and have a bad memory of how things went down.

(Seriously)

[Crub]

Yeah if you want to lynch me to cull down the number's I don't mind

I like either a Tar or MoS lynch though.

I've been way off this game though, so I don't know what to think. I was going to look closer at NabNab today, so I've been wrong about everyone. That probably means pickem is scum cause he's the only one I haven't thought was scum all game.

[Crub]

I didn't like how you tried to set me up for lynch today yesterday ... that's also why I was suspicious of NabNab.

Also what I want to know is why is Kate still alive if she's the doctor who only had one self-protect?

[Crub]

I'm not trying to get you lynched ... If I was trying to get you lynched I'd at least vote you.

Let's look at the scenario where I'm scum with Adel and Num.
Do you think that I would defend them both, and vote with them like I did if I was scum? Yes I accept that I've played badly, I've learnt a lot from this game. Yes I don't mind being culled for numbers advantage, But don't try and make it sound like I'm the most likely scum today. Let's at least have some discussion first before we make a decision.

I think the fact that you've caught 2 scum in 2 days, should mean that you're not scum, which is what I was referring to in the quote above. But I don't think that means that we should give you a 100% pass.

If I get lynched today don't forget how Tar tried to shift suspicion from Num onto me yesterday, also don't forget Tar's early vote of me today.

[Crub]

Yeah I know I suck

[Crub]

Also what I want to know is why is Kate still alive if she's the doctor who only had one self-protect?

I'm not a prticular fan of this statement.

Me either ... I need to think more before I post ...

[Crub]

I'm here, I don't have access over the weekends(except for now yay), I sitll have access during the week but only when I'm at work.

I'm happy with a peg lynch. I'm confused by ABR's actions, and how it's possible MoS could miss the NK.

Admiral why are you so eager to give ABR a free pass?

I'll have more tomorrow.

[Crub]

Why isn't everyone on the Tar wagon? Did no one else see the self-destruct when Adel "didn't claim"?

This was when me, nabakov and MoS attacked Num7 after the night no one died. Very scummy.

Can we lynch Crub yet ?

You mean when you were bussing your partner and I was being non-committal?

[Crub]

Let's lynch Crub now. Any more posting is a waste of our time.

The only person that less posting favours is the scum.

[Crub]

BS. We are wasting our time. Let's vote Crub out. Now.

That is all.

Why don't you vote hop again?

[Crub]

BS. We are wasting our time. Let's vote Crub out. Now.

That is all.

Why don't you vote hop again?

ABR is nigh-confirmed town in my eyes, and your continued attempts to discredit him only make me happier with my vote.

Confirm Vote

Because why? He followed MoS around? Whatever ...

[Crub]

Personally in hindsight yes it became obvious that Adel's doc claim was rediculous ... but initially for me that training from newbie school kicked in where you don't lynch the claimed doc.

Secondly I just didn't buy the Num7 - Adel linkage when CopMoS brought it up day 1 and so I didn't give it much credence day 3.

Thirdly because I find myself defending peg's point of view, there's probably a pretty good chance he's scum

[Crub]

It *is* a weird pattern isn't it? You have defended pretty much every scum killed to date.

This isn't the first game either

[Crub]

Ok I'm going to

vote: ThAdmiral

because :
I don't like the vote on me.
I don't like his vote on ckd day 1.
I don't like his defense of Adel day 2.
I don't like Num7's defense of him day 2.
I don't like his vote on Num7 on day 3.
I don't like his generally lurkish playstyle.
And by a process of elimination it's either him or peg.

[Crub]

...why

Hey ABR remember Day 2 (or was it 3) when you were sure I was town and you were 100% sure that Peg was scum?

Ok I re-read again

unvote; vote Peg

[Crub]

Of course I'm town you jerks peg is the scum.

[Crub]

Ok then... if Crub somehow comes up as town, this little charade by Tar by trying to set up another mislynch for the next day is very disturbing...

As opposed to what your saying in this post?

[Crub]

No... actually read Tar's post, and read my post.

NOWHERE

do I suggest lynching him. I just said that he's already trying to setup another possible mislynch.

Oh I forgot casting suspicion on someone "if the person you just hammered turns out to be town" in no way imply's that you want them lynched.

[Crub]

peg go boom

Thanks everyone, I learnt so much from this game, MoS's scum catching skills are top quality