433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[NanookTheWolf]

Hey guys .. just replaced, give me a little time to catch up on some reading.

[NanookTheWolf]

My vote goes out to ...

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

This vote partly is placed based on the fact that I'm interested more so in finding out more about this doc claim. It's not so much that I want to be sure he's the doc as I am curious as to him being scum. I find it odd his initial reaction to Dodgy's behaviors and why not continuing with the doc claim was scummy.

Why suddenly retract a role claim that's already been made is something that I've always had difficulties dealing with.

One issue I've had in the past with Dodgy was much similar to this one, and for whatever reason I always have Dodgy pinned as scum in a game whether he is or not.

At this point in the game with lessened discussion I'd rather push a "re-claim" and or new claim from CES to clear the air.

I'm not saying just lynch the guy, but for whatever reason that he may or may not change his role claim should ly informative to the players in this game. We can't really hurt anything from knowing if he's the actual doctor considering that the claims been made already through Dodgy and no matter what he claims the mafia will have a hold on the night's decisions.

CES also seems to be avoiding participation in the game. Why place a 3rd vote on Off the mark with no explanation what so ever?

The only other person really sticking out to me is Gorckat ..

I've found his play in this game to be flamboyant when voting for one. He had a sudden change of heart when Kilmenator had 4 votes and seemed to take advantage of throwing on the 5th. Originally he had voted Kilmenator, retracted his vote and placed it on Thorgot aka Off the mark, based on what? .. Joke logic?

That's all I've really got for now

Other players haven't really uped any of my suspicion thus far so not much point in listing my opinions of them just yet.

[NanookTheWolf]

Hush you ..

I'm a bit rusty and honestly after reading 13 pages straight with 10 of them primarily focused on debates with the Fonz, it was hard for me to even come up with that ..

[NanookTheWolf]

This is a shameless "Hi, I'm here" post.

I'll try and skim over the weekend, then read in depth the weekend after that.

Scum may begin enjoying their last week of the game.

Nanook - what in Pie's post elicited your somewhat defensive reply?

The part that's underlined .. Shameless maybe, but it's really all I got right now.

As I explained a little bit earlier, anyone pushing for a role claim from CES seems fishy to me at this point.

As you may have stated this earlier, it's ok for me to disagree with your point .. You can fos me all you like, however I'm not looking for an ally, just stating the facts from my perspective.

Didn't get the response that I thought I would from gorckat which would've landed him more as scum IMO. So I'll leave my vote on CES still for now as that's really my best lead.

I'd rather take my chances with the outed supposed doc, then possibly revealing a more powerful town role and giving the mafia more then one choice on the pickings tonight .. but that's just me.

[NanookTheWolf]

OOOOOH! .. Totally misinterpreted Pie's post, hence the confusion/defensiveness as you call it inhim.

[NanookTheWolf]

I'm in favor of not lynching CES. I think we learn more having a 'known unknown' than not having it. Rather than do the mafia's job for them, I say let them kill the doc and let's turn our attention towards the other 10 unknowns (12 minus CES and my/yourself). If he's around tomorrow we can deal with him.

I find this statement contradictory to the next ..

vote:CES

One, to get some discussion (hopefully). Two, for ducking and running with an itty-bitty post that adds little, if anything.

I looked through all of gorckat's posts and honestly nothing really sticks out as necessarily being scummy on his part. The quotes above are just to show an example of why I call Gorckat flamboyant.

By reading his posts, the main thing I take notice to is that Gorck will post his concerns on a particular player then possibly vote for them .. then in the post which follows it, he suddenly has a new 'target' so to speak.

I don't know if it's gorck's style, or if it's his particular role in this game which makes him operate this way .. but it's something that sparks the pit in my stomach as being a bit on the scummy side.

I will

Unvote: CES

for now, since I really don't have anything further to prosecute him. Others have voiced their opinions on the matter and it doesn't seem that it's a battle that I'll win.

However, If CES does miraculously live tomorrow, I will voice my concerns and more then likely vote for him unless he's able to prove that he is what Dodgy claimed he is.

Is it just me, or is it a tad bit strange that a pro-town player has claimed doc, been replaced, and suddenly wants to take back this claim with the inclination of knowing that if he really is the doc that he's dead tonight. I don't like having mafia before the town who the doctor is.

The only way I see CES to be smart with that move, is if he isn't the doctor and he's trying to conceal that fact, and not look like a liar to the town.

This is why someone's actions (like dodgy's) makes the game just that much more difficult.

PS - Please can someone else weigh in on this game .. Not very many posts made today. I believe Fonz was the most vocal player in the game before I replaced, what happened fonz?

[NanookTheWolf]

From what I've read of Kilm .. I don't so much see him as scummy as I do in need of replacement. When I originally signed up for this game, I should've checked the initial date on the first post .. didn't think it dragged on so much.

The Fonz hasn't posted either, which still baffles me ..

and

Dasquin has been a bit quiet as well. There may be others, but the above three I took most notice to.

Maybe all this relates to the weekend, or maybe I should've checked the VLA thread before posting this. I think we need some more activity if we plan to get anywhere.

[NanookTheWolf]

The only case I see against Kilm is that he's posted a total of 5 times since May 14th, all consisting of 2 sentences or less, and his last two posts both stated that he'd read the thread and get back to us .. One on May 30th, the other today.

I'm sure there are other reasons prior in the game, but from what I see of a quick glance of just his posts, that's what I got.

[NanookTheWolf]

The only case I see against Kilm is that he's posted a total of 5 times since May 14th, all consisting of 2 sentences or less, and his last two posts both stated that he'd read the thread and get back to us .. One on May 30th, the other today.

I'm sure there are other reasons prior in the game, but from what I see of a quick glance of just his posts, that's what I got.

So how do we get any information from a crappy reason to lynch, with no useful interactions?

You wait for Kilm to post, which she has, and determine a not so crappy reason I suppose .. Even if such a player isn't lynched early on for lurking, it will come up again eventually if the activity continues, then more then likely they have to get voted or replaced.

[NanookTheWolf]

The Dodgy/CES wagon would make more sense to me after he lived through night 1. THEN it makes sense to force a claim out of CES.

Problem with this logic is that CES's predecessor already DID claim ... Whey are we waiting for CES to warrant it, when we already know that isn't going to happen. The dude has made that pretty apparant, and like I've said earlier, if the town is in agreement about waiting until tomorrow to push a lynch on him, well, then so be-it.

[NanookTheWolf]

May sound like a newbie here .. but what the hell is ad hominem, and just another one that I don't recognize .. QFT?

Please update me on these mafia lingo that wasn't never taught in my newbie school ...

[NanookTheWolf]

Ad hominem attack. Wher you don't attack the argument, but the person making. IE, instead of something like:

It's simply untrue to say my behaviour constitutes pushing a quicklynch

an ad hom attack looks like this:

I'm not responding to that, you're obviously a freaking moron

or

You're such a n00b. I can't believe you'd come out with something so dumb.

Like I'd pay any attention to what you're saying, you're Canadian. When has anything worthwhile or good come out of Canada?

Exaggeration for comic effect, but you see my point. Ad hom attacks out of frustration are not uncommon in town players (when you feel someone is deliberately and repeatedly misrepping you, or just not listening to what you're saying) but they can also be a scum tactic, to obscure the merit of the opposing argument. Ad hom attacks are bad because if someone's making crap arguments, you should be able to state why they're crap, rather than resorting to ad hominem.

QFT= quoted for Truth. A short way of saying 'I agree with the above.'

Thanks Fonz .. I didn't feel like swimming around the wiki as that always gets me into trouble.

[NanookTheWolf]

I'm going back to my original thoughts ...

Vote: CogitoErgoScum

[NanookTheWolf]

I'm back ...

I'm willing to vote either one of these players at this point in the game (CES and InHim that is.)

Both of them have been asked to claim by the census of the town, and both have refused. I get the whole not letting mafia know more then what they should bit, however .. when you're that close to a lynch Inhim it doesn't really matter anymore b/c you'll die and the town won't benefit from any possible 'town' information.

Unvote: CogitoErgoScum, and Vote: Inhimshallibe

(He's back at L-1)

This may have been the scummiest thing I've done in the eyes of some, but we're at page 18 and still can't make a choice as to who to kill. (Benefits with starting on day 1 I guess) ... I say we take the chance and lynch off one of them since neither seems to want to 'cooperate' with the town. Again, I'd still prefer CES at this point, but I'm also eager to continue on with this game.

[NanookTheWolf]

You know, I keep hearing all of these people explain how against CES they are .. but when it comes time to vote him, no one wants to suddenly ... WTF!

Inhimshallibe should be back soon from wherever he went, and maybe if we're lucky, he'll actually claim .. IF not, I say hang the bastard.

[NanookTheWolf]

Unvote: Inhimshalibe, Vote: CES

... for far over rated reasoning I've already gone through ... Maybe this time we'll actually get something going.

[NanookTheWolf]

Unvote: Mr BuddyLee

I've seen CES check the thread on multiple occasions, this totally frustrates the hell out of me ...

... Again we're in waiting mode.

[NanookTheWolf]

Vote: MrBuddyLee

Too much wifom in that post, and still doesn't explain to me anyway the doc bit .. You can say that Dodgy did this, and CES did that, however you're not them, and the actions they took are scummy.

Also, you're basically stating in your post that you're not the doctor, IMO. So with that I give back my vote .. I'd rather make the mistake in lynching a townie, then lynching a doctor, especially when I find you scum.

As for the impatient business, Let's just say that I think that 19 pages of posting is more then enough for the first game and I'd like to have other leads to go on besides the same things I've been dealing with this entire day.

[NanookTheWolf]

The fact is that this all started with Dodgy and hence his actions taken from that. As for you stating something along the lines of looking for an easy kill .. no offense, but 19 pages pretty much lays out the fact that this game hasn't yet had an easy kill.

You make your statement in regards to me knee jerking as if I haven't been leaning towards CES/Dodgy/You being scum the entirety of this game since I too replaced.

What do you mean that CES's actions took into account Dodgy's claim not being mandated. Dodgy claimed Doctor, CES claimed to not claim, and you claim town. What's your point?

I don't know what the right play for town in your position would be, maybe you should take that up with your predecessors for not playing like town.

[NanookTheWolf]

OK, so basically you're a hardass. An irrational townie claimed early, his replacement made the common sense play, and you're going to punish town for it.

Makes perfect sense. As scum.

Yeah, I am a hard ass I guess, but Why claim doctor and the quit? I think Dodgy doing that was purely scummy in that it could have possibly outed another doc (Speculating that we have one) with a counterclaim which would be something scum easily would do.

You keep saying that CES made the common sense play to me, and as I've stated earlier, I disagree. Coming into the game and just saying that I'm not going to say anything after all of those events took place, and then turn around and not pay any further attention to the game is anything but common sense.

I'm glad that you replaced and that you took the time to read the game, however the events that took place earlier are already set in stone. I don't know what you could say at this point that could change my mind (I know it sounds stubborn).

Also, I'm not punishing the town for Dodgy/CES's mistakes .. They are. Also note that I'm not the only player who thinks that you're scum, there are 5 others on the wagon my friend .. Maybe you should question them as well.

[NanookTheWolf]

Excuse that last line, I got confused with Inhim's wagon for a second ..

There are 3 others on your wagon, not 5 .. and up til you replaced there were 5 total, but Pete_D unvoted.

I'd actually would like to hear from Pete_D, Superstring, and Pie as well in this debate.

I think Pete_D primarily was voting CES in concerning the lurking if I recall correctly, so maybe a word from the other two then I suppose.

[NanookTheWolf]

Me thinking that CES is scum because of the inactivity has only a small added topping to the whole thing .. I originated my thoughts with how Dodgy reacted and yes I'll admit that CES didn't help the situation which still keeps me thinking that he's scum.

You've added on to it with your WIFOM and I'm keeping the vote ...

I knew you would point out my mistake as being scummy (Quite predictable) .. However, I pointed it out before you did and honestly made a mistake which I explained .. You kind of showed up after I was just part of another wagon, and the only reason I was on that wagon is b/c the CES wagon wasn't going anywhere which was where I originally wanted my vote.

Oh and before you say that I I'm vote hopping, Let it be know that the only hopping I've been doing is right back onto you.

[NanookTheWolf]

I too agree that maybe we should let MBL off for now and deal with him tomorrow...

Just FYI, MBL is one of the best BS'ers I have ever played with.

So why wait til tomorrow?

[NanookTheWolf]

The fonz can ruleout most of the town all he'd like .. but I like my vote and I'm sticking with it. I'm pretty sure of myself that he's scum (which by the way isn't something that I say in a game very often).

I don't think that MBL would be killed tonight even if he weren't scum because I think it's pretty apparant in my mind at least that he's not a doctor and he's someone that the scum are going to want to leave in the game due to his high suspicion. Plus I think he's scum and fellow scum aren't going to kill fellow scum.

[NanookTheWolf]

You can insist on voting MBL all you like... but if you want anyone other than the four named above lynched, you'll have to do it without me.

.. and

I'm

the hard ass?

It's ok to have different routes that we each want to take, but when you ask me why I vote the way I do, and I explain it .. then leave it at that. Why you only choose to vote for a certain 4 players is your choice .. I wasn't asking for support as it's been pretty obvious now that I'm not going to get it, but I will stand for what I believe and that's that MBL is scum.

[NanookTheWolf]

.. and by support I do mean an actual full lynch, btw.

[NanookTheWolf]

I'm still pretty stuck on MBL being scum ...

[NanookTheWolf]

I'm game ...

[NanookTheWolf]

Plain ol' vanilla townie

[NanookTheWolf]

As already stated by the mod in his 2nd post ...

The Vanilla PM looks like this:

You are vanilla. This is where flavor would go, but there is no flavor in this game, so there is nothing here. As many times as you want, during the day, you may vote for who you think is scum. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The townie win condition is this:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[NanookTheWolf]

I can't defend Eletriar's behavior for one ...

I stuck by my gut feeling on MBL, and I was wrong ... Very surprised at this fact.

I didn't figure that I lurked during the massclaim as it seemed to happen quite quickly, at least in my head anyways, and when I saw that I was to claim .. I did.

My top suspect right now falls on Gorckat, but as we've all seen I'm not too intuitive when it comes to catching scum ... Pete D and Superstring have done quite a bit of lurking in this game, so I could see a possible scum in between the two of them.

OTM doesn't catch my eye so much as being scum .. more leaning towards town.

I don't really have anything on Dasquin, I do know that he plays scum well, but that doesn't warrant anything in this game.

Kilm, the one shot vig who has proven herself .. Town

Pie hasn't lashed out or anything either, and the fact that he too supported the MBL lynch as I did doesn't make him scum in my book.

I really truly thought MBL/CES/Dodgy was scum, I didn't expect another doc to out themselves to prove this, but Pie had me thinking that he was the doc considering his "stubborness" to vote MBL/CES/Dodgy as well.

I think I was just quite off in this game, and really need to look at all the cards again as well.

I think that this could be LYOL and that whatever choice we make today needs to be scum.