Mini 458 - Game over!

[pickemgenius]

/confirm

[pickemgenius]

vote: Jay and Silent Bob

vote: Beavis and Butthead

vote: Wal-Mart

vote:carrotcake

cause I don't like carrot cake


(insert mandatory OMGUS vote here, with an explanation why my name sucks so much. MAKE ME LAUGH!)

[pickemgenius]

It depends on what time zone your in.

There is only one right time zone

THE CENTRAL TIME ZONE


he he

[pickemgenius]

Whoa. By the looks of our current voting I have a few things I'm not liking so much.


1. the no lynch votes.
2. the almost circular voting pattern.
(There are 8 current voting options right now) Eww.

Unvote

Vote: Tromboner.

Vote to springboard some discussion hopefully.

[pickemgenius]

Wouldn't mind hearing more from:
fak(random vote only)
DanMonkey(random vote+QFT)
dylan41985(random vote)
tromboner(no lynch vote)

All with confirmation posts.

Tromboner why the vote for a no-lynch?

[pickemgenius]

Heads up for everyone here, I know i've posted this in the Vacation thread already, but from June 20th-26th(ish) I will be on vacation.


95% I should have Internet access, just letting you know in case for some reason that doesn't happen =/

Don't need a replacement.

[pickemgenius]

J-man & molestargazer were the last to confirm, which to me means that they are the most likely to have been engaging in PMs before game start

.


Thats a bit unfair to people with odd time zones.

Or theywere just last by chance. In my old game I was last to confirm, but I was the cop.

That's true also.
Just because somebody isn't on 24/7 and confirms last really doesn't mean alot.
RL takes over sometimes.
I don't take alot of stock in the last few to confirm, unless of course you want to mention it jokingly in connection to a random vote.

[pickemgenius]

Heads up for everyone here, I know i've posted this in the Vacation thread already, but from June 20th-26th(ish) I will be on vacation.


95% I should have Internet access, just letting you know in case for some reason that doesn't happen =/

Don't need a replacement.

You'll be gone because you're coming to MoS-Faire?

lol, I wish. That'd be nice.



I actually have family out in Colorado, and i'm going to a few Rockies vs. Yankees games while i'm there, so that's swell.

[pickemgenius]

<- Colorado native. They do have internets there, I promise.

How far are you willing to take the tromboner bandwagon? Are there more open seats? Does it have a/c and a good stereo? Leather seats and minibar?

<- Colorado born, Nebraska raised.


1. The tromboner wagon?
Umm, i'd actually, basically like to see him post something, that'd be a good start on what vibes i'm getting, or not getting, shit i'm not sure yet, I just don't like the no lynch vote. *shrug*

2. A/C- yes
Good Radio- i'd say pretty decent
Leather Seats- no
Minibar- umm, how's a cooler work filled with assorted beverages, and whatnot?

Room Hmmm.

Van(8 people)- Family(4 people)- room taken up by luggage and whatnot(2 people+back)= theoretically two spots open.



Yeah, not sure what hotel i'm going to be at (weird right, why the hell do you stay at a hotel when visiting family?)

Oh well, I say the 5% no internet because i'm not sure what hotel we're staying at, at that time.


Now i'm at 99.99% Internet (barring I forget to bring a laptop) I should be good.

[pickemgenius]

I like my vote on tromboner right now.


If that answers your question in a nut shell, he needs to say something.


I don't like lynch the lurkers, as much as i'd rather have pressure applied to the point where they start to give us information, so that we can find connections for the later days. That's just my opinion.

[pickemgenius]

I don't like lynch the lurkers, as much as i'd rather have pressure applied to the point where they start to give us information, so that we can find connections for the later days. That's just my opinion.

So that would be "almost-lynch the lurkers". And if they just don't cooperate, what then? "We might lynch the lurkers"?

If they don't post, then hopefully they'll get replaced, and then the replacement will be capable of posting quality content

Lynching lurkers only *can* work, if the lurker has been participating(then falls off the face of the earth without warning and/or is posting in other games) enough to where, you have more then just lurking accredited to the lynch.

[pickemgenius]

Heh, there are a few ways to look at lurking.

I just don't want it to be a problem. That's the main thing.
Activeness pwns.

[pickemgenius]

EBWOP:

I still say you need more then just lurking to lynch somebody.

[pickemgenius]

I feel empathy for your loss.

Quoted for yes-ness. ( I like this one better+ QFY, way better then QFT)

or

QFT

[pickemgenius]

Whoa whoa whoa.

You're right in the fact that J-man has been somewhat vocal about your lynch.
Thats a fair point.
A bandwagon doesn't start out of thin air.
If people agree with you, then they might vote for him.

J-man, in lieu of Tromboner's posting, what's your opinion about Lynch all Lurkers now?

Tromboner- your vote on mole is why?

[pickemgenius]

J-Man seems to want to kill so badly, he wants it more than information. Lurking and NoLynch are mistakes, but he should not be killed quickly for it. Especially because the game is still young.

Or I could be wrong, im new too.

CC eyes J-man suspiciously

I think you're pretty spot-on.
That's just me though.

And I don't think it's a want to kill so badly, as much as J-man wants the game to progress exponentially faster then it should.

[pickemgenius]

I'm getting weird vibes from dylan. Anybody else? Maybe it's just me?

No posts in four days, then casually dropping a vote on a growing bandwagon.

[pickemgenius]

So J-man now has 5 votes, with seven to lynch...great idea town! put him in a position where mafia can easily kill him!

While however unsmart it

may

be for J-man to be at L-2 relatively early, it's not a bad thing really, it's building pressure and is giving him a chance to defend himself, so we can have a logical decision on wheter or not he is or is not scum.

[pickemgenius]

While however unsmart it may be for J-man to be at L-2 relatively early, it's not a bad thing really, it's building pressure and is giving him a chance to defend himself, so we can have a logical decision on wheter or not he is or is not scum.

So how will you know whether he's town or not? If he is town, he'll most likely defend himself or say, "Hey, kill me if you want but I hope you all die!", if he's mafia, he'll probably do the same, unless he decides to fake claim as cop or doc, but if he

were

the cop or doc, he would still claim.

We see how he reacts to X(5) amount of votes being placed on him.

Yeah if he defends himself, we can tell if it is good or not, and make more progress from there.

I don't know/see many townies offering themselves to be killed, it's not really smart, but that's just me.

[pickemgenius]

Oooh questions! YAY!!!


Alrighty:


Do I believe his claim?: it was pretty ambiguous.

Do I find it ironic that he suddenly doesn't want a quick lynch?: heh, a newer player under pressure, it's weird, but I don't find it totally strange since we change our minds constantly in this game anyway.

[pickemgenius]

Can the mod say all the jobs handed out or is there a place i can go to see them?

Nope, and Nope.

[pickemgenius]

I think MOS is getting too much crap. I think claiming at L-2 isn't ideal (i'd rather wait for someone to be at L-1) but if you *do* have somebody that claims cop for example, firstly the town doesn't waste a lynch on a probable power, secondly the scum are in a really undesireable position for the night kill, because unless there is a claimed doc(which umm would be NK'ed anyway) then the mafia have NO way of knowing if there is a doc, and if there is who they will protect.

I think it's just the playstyle of MOS to ask for claims.

I want to hear from MOS also on this.

[pickemgenius]

Some people just have different playstyles, some like claiming, some dont'. I don't think that makes somebody scummy though.

[pickemgenius]

It seems as if he's trying to hint he's a power role without coming out and saying it. This to me means he's either scum not wanting to outright claim for fear of a counter claim, or an actual power role who feels he will be targeted tonight.
I'm leaning towards the first one. He should see by now that if he is a power role he should just claim.

I'm not sure if he is a power role or not.
I'm still totally ambiguous on his I could fake a doc/cop claim but i'm vanilla. I don't want to claim until i'm at L-1.
He's basically confusing the shit out of me. Sorry, but it's true.


I could see him as scum not wanting to claim power role in fear of getting counter claimed, and thus getting found out.
It is possible he is just straight vanilla aswell.

I'm pretty shocked he's at L-1 right now so basically I just want to hear from him now. To set things straight.

[pickemgenius]

My vibe-o-meter™ just went from wishy washy to more likely scum. I'm not really happy with his last few posts.

why are you not scum? What have you done that is pro-town? Who is a better candidate for scum than you? What have they done that is anti-town?

I felt that you only answered latter two.
Town members

NEED

to defend themselves

always.

The afformentioned scummy vibes i've recently got is that in my first game ever (Newbie 334) one of the scum didn't post a defense for himself, and only listed a suspicion list. So it's

almost

like deja-vu, with a different person.


I do agree that we need

everyone

to comment on J-man, so that we don't come to a hasty conclusion.

[pickemgenius]

unvote

J-man is not scum. Do not lynch him.

vote: pickemgenius

I have a really bad gut feeling about him, especially after his last post. I just get the feeling that he's scum trying to push through the lynch on J-man, while telling him what a protown player should do, so as seeming to educate him for the good of the town. Also, I don't feel that J-man hasn't defended himself. He *did* post a defense, but it was a defense that struck me as the sort newbie town would make, being overwhelmed by the pressure he's under.

pickem's last sentence again sounds like a scum ploy, in that scum often tell the town to not be hasty, as a way of trying to seem protown. You rarely see protown players put that much emphasis in such a statement.

Die suck scum die?

Heh. I didn't really see it as much of a defense.
I can understand why you have a queasy gut feeling about my last post.

I just really didn't feel there was any case against J-man that warrented a lynch, and I really wanted him to defend himself more so then he has. The reason I told him what a protown player should do is because I felt he was protown. He then said he was going to hammer himself if he was at L-1 in 24 hours, which threw me off, and I was hoping that he wouldn't follow through with it.

My last sentence was added and emphasized becuse we've had a few players not post here in awhile and might not be up to date and probably aren't aware of the situation

People that are in that list:
fak
DanMonkey
molestargazer
Carrotcake
dylan41985

[pickemgenius]

Wait, if there wasn't a case worth lynching J-man over, why did you say he needed to defend himself? If there is not a case, there is nothing worth defending against. In addition, you said you

found him scummy because he didn't defend against a case for lynching him that you claim didn't exist.

I just really didn't feel there was any case against J-man that warrented a lynch

I said that the case didn't exist? I'm pretty sure this is what you are talking about, and if we're reading the same thing, NOWHERE does it say that a case didn't exist, just no case that warrented a lynch.

There still is a case against him though, so he still needs to defend himself. Just because in my opinion it doesn't warrent a lynch, doesn't mean that he doesn't need to defend himself.

[pickemgenius]

+ tack this on.


6 people obviously felt there was a case enough for a lynch.

I never saw the case, but 6 others did so it was there. So it was infact there. His almost failure to defend himself it why I started to get a scummy vibe.

I'll clear anything up if I/you see something weird

[pickemgenius]

Like I said earlier, he's already defended himself against what case there was. Therefore, if you say he hasn't defended himself, you must be referring to another case that none of us know about, which would've been enough to lynch him, combined with other actions. But you said there wasn't enough of a case to lynch him.

I still am not quite sure

well i can see that you guys are quite intent on killing me and ive spent a hour and a bit reading the posts over and trying to figure out a airtight argument that i could use in my defence, mabye its because of inexpierence that i cant find one but in any case im pretty sure that my defence is already stated

and if there is another out there that thinks i am mafia... well then i cant do a whole lot to stop you.

the defence behind the hinting about a power role is this, i was hoping that you guys would move on with out moving to the point that if i was i would have to claim.

qualifies much for a defense. Still.

The afformentioned scummy vibes i've recently got is that in my first game ever (Newbie 334) one of the scum didn't post a defense for himself, and only listed a suspicion list. So it's

almost

like deja-vu, with a different person.

That's my basic case against him. It for sure isn't hidden.

[pickemgenius]

pickemgenius: How scummy or innocent do you currently consider J-man to be? What relationships do you see between J-man and other players, both positive and negative? What do you make of Kate at this point?

My example may be crap, that's why I haven't placed an FOS, IGMEOY, or VOTE on J-man this whole time.

J-man, I could see as newbie scum, or newbie town who is used to super fast games. His ambiguity I do not like so much though.

J-man has been attacking MOS more recently, while early on pushing for a Tromboner lynch. Everyone else he seems to be ok with.


Kate- doesn't like J-man bandwagon. Doesn't think lurking=scum.Thinks Adel is suspicous because it looked like she wanted to kill the lurkers. Doesn't like reasoning behing dylan vote. Doesn't like claiming. Doesn't know whether or not to believe J-man claim.Doesn't like how J-man keeps hinting at a power role. MOS and Kate get in playstyle debate. I'm not sure, I think that Kate is town, but there is a little part in me that says the other. She is pretty focused on Adel.

[pickemgenius]

Adel, him not voting merely makes it look like he was trying to pile suspicion on J-man, who had a bandwagon going. That's a classic scum strategy, pushing the bandwagon without being on it. Then, he can go back later and say "hey, I wasn't on the bandwagon, don't blame me!" This makes me more sure that J-man is town.

Me not hammering makes me scum?

What if I would have hammered, and what if he did come up town?

[pickemgenius]

However, you post a weak case that says to newbie town "I didn't think J-man was worth lynching based on what he did before, but now I think he is."

Show me somewhere, where I said he was worth lynching now.

[pickemgenius]

EBWOP: I said he was more likely scum. Never did I say I wanted to lynch him.

[pickemgenius]

unvote:

vote: dylan 41985

Dude, you have to do more then pop by every few days and vote.

Mod:

How are the prods going/ will we need any replacements?

[pickemgenius]

Now you're playing semantics, pickem. It's not what you actually say, it's what you imply by your actions. You did not

say

that you wanted J-man lynched, but your actions implied that you supported such an action.

.

I told him he should defend himself better if he were town (which I thought he was), because I thought his defense/lack of basically was weird.
Please again tell me where I imply I want J-man to be lynched.

[pickemgenius]

i REALLY REALLY want to vote pickem but instead i will

FO

Major

S:pickem

you can't just jump on a forming bandwagon (clearly jumping on as it forms since you posted twice after Dylan but before your vote) and it clear that you had read up to that point atleast because you responded to MoS... your definatly pouring out scummy vibes over here.

I guess I just feel not posting for a few days, then dropping a vote only, escpecially one on you; when you hadn't even posted between his unvote, and revote of you, is a little more then weird.

[pickemgenius]

@kate about pickem voting its not that he voted its WHEN he voted look at the stuff right before his vote, what is it? well he posts twice and doesn't mention anything about Dylan if im not wrong... he only votes after two other people have voted this makes me think at first thought that Dylam and pickem are mafia and pickem see's that dylan is going to take some major flack for lurking this long, and since the bandwagon is starting pickem will jump on early to distance himself from his mafia partner, and why i don't vote? well im quite certian that MoS deserves it more at this point and im just waiting for him to screw up but he already knew that, although as i just mentioned this past this Dylan, pickem pair is looking quite plausible to me.

I post twice in response to MOS, so of course there is no mention of dylan.

Actually if you would look, only one new person voted for dylan.
Adel already had her vote on dylan before hand.
ThAdmiral was the only new person to vote for dylan.

[pickemgenius]

Now you see why I think he's scum? He was caught in a serious slipup, and he's doing everything he can to feign ignorance of what he's done, instead of trying to actually explain his actions.

I got a few questions still.

1. what serious slip up?
2. how am I trying to feign ignorance from what i've done?
3. Please again tell me where I imply/say I want J-man to be lynched.

[pickemgenius]

Let me understand something.

you found him scummy because he didn't defend against a case for lynching him that you claim didn't exist.

just really didn't feel there was any case against J-man that warrented a lynch

I said that the case didn't exist? I'm pretty sure this is what you are talking about, and if we're reading the same thing, NOWHERE does it say that

a

case didn't exist,

just no case that warrented a lynch.

There still is

a

case against him though, so he still needs to defend himself. Just because

in my opinion it doesn't warrent a lynch

, doesn't mean that he doesn't need to defend himself.

umm.
If he has 6 votes, there is obviously some case out there which 6 people felt he should be lynched.
I just wasn't buying it.

3. Please again tell me where I imply/say I want J-man to be lynched.

There: (as if it wasn't fucking obvious, were you not feigning complete ignorance, since this is the post that caused me to vote you in the first place)

My vibe-o-meter™ just went from wishy washy to more likely scum. I'm not really happy with his last few posts.

why are you not scum? What have you done that is pro-town? Who is a better candidate for scum than you? What have they done that is anti-town?

I felt that you only answered latter two.
Town members NEED to defend themselves always.

The afformentioned scummy vibes i've recently got is that in my first game ever (Newbie 334) one of the scum didn't post a defense for himself, and only listed a suspicion list. So it's almost like deja-vu, with a different person.


I do agree that we need everyone to comment on J-man, so that we don't come to a hasty conclusion.

I don't mention lynching J-man once in that, the word lynch isn't in it.
Telling him what he should do if he is protown is implying I want him to be lynched?
Saying that I found it weird that he really didn't defend/said he would hammer himself implies I want him to be lynched?
Me not FOS'ing, IGMEOY, or voting him, for a shit example I gave (and I knew it was shit, that why I didn't vote him) implies I want him to be lynched?

[pickemgenius]

The problem is, if you are inferring that someone should hammer, why not do it yourself? That's the sort of thing that only benefits scum. If a protown player wants someone else to do something, it better be something they're willing to do themselves. Only scum try to coerce people into doing their job for them.

So your whole thing is that you wanted me to hammer J-man basically?

Why should I hammer someone who I

just

started getting scummy vibes from?

If a protown player wants to do something, they better make

damn

sure it's not done hastily.

If a protown player wants to hammer someone, they better make sure they don't cut they day short before hearing from everybody.

[pickemgenius]

This is a good time to note(again) I will be on vacation from June 20th-25th(ish).

I should have IE, but not a lot of time to post and whatnot, if I check in briefly and see something happening, I might post something really quick. I expect to be back late the 25th, so I should have time to do a full analysis when I get back.

[pickemgenius]

oh yeah, and

UNVOTE

Don't want to be tied down to a vote I might not be able to change.

[pickemgenius]

I still <3 N-N's posting/posting style, he already knows this though.


Mole puts dylan at L-2 (not L-1) soon after I unvote, which is thoroughly understandable, wants a claim.

Curious puts dylan at L-1, says he is voting dylan

For reasons that everyone has already stated

- only thing I don't like so much is his reason(other peoples reasons) for voting, but I understand he was a replacement so it's kind of hard to make new/fresh observations when you weren't following the game.


dylan already accepts he is going to be lynched, says Adel,Kate, Mole are scum.

-blah

Adel likes

the new way to defend yourself is to not defend yourself. Huh. I think I like it

unvotes dylan.

- I don't like this logic/thought process so much.

dylan immediately says Adel is town after Adel unvotes him.Then votes MOS

-awkward.

Adel tells him to save some breath and start explaining himself.

- word

N-N wants to know dylans reasoning for vote on MOS.

- don't we all?

HJ doesn't like attacking people instead of defending yourself.

- ok

Num unvotes dylan.

dylan-

They're brainwashing you to make me seem scummier than I am!

- scummier then you are?!?!?!

Num player analysis.

- short but sweet.

Adel good charts.

CKD- says doesn't think replacements are scum.

-craplogic at best.

Kate posts a defense to CKD/num

everyone loves Adel's graphics.

CKD goes after Kate in post 314.

Num semi-goes after Kate in post 317.

Kate defense in 318.

WIFOM explained.

Adel doesn't like dylans

I'm not sure exactly how much I'll be able to post. Don't vote me out while I'm gone! haha

statement, feels ok with letting dylan off the hook.

-not sure why you're ok with letting dylan off the hook....

CKD doesn't think we should let dylan off the hook yet.

ThAdmiral says dylan is best play for today, says J-man defense

of the disillusionment of a newbie-town. Dylan, however has flatly refused to defend himself, and then goes on to say: "oh I'm off, so you can't really lynch me" in a rather smug way.

- I completely agree, we're getting nowhere with letting people get off the hook so easily just because they post a really poor defense.

MOS says N-N argument was good, and he had a valid theory, uses WIFOM to explain, but blatantly states it is in fact WIFOM.

N-N unvotes MOS, says one reason/example isn't enough for a lynch, wants a bit more explanation.

Kate doesn't like how easily we seem to be letting dylan/J-man of the hook.

HJ votes dylan, doesn't like lurking is ok I do it all the time defense used by dylan.

CKD/Kate spiel posts 342-345

Kate's post 347 is iffy.

CKD post 348 goes after Kate, again.

Adel votes CKD to stir the pot, and to show she is still there.

HJ says Kate wasn't defending J-man, says we should lynch most scummy it shouldn't matter what they claim. J-man is still suspicious, doesn't like CKD attack on Kate.

- we should lynch the most scummy player, I totally agree, unless the most scummy player claimes a power-role, in which case you let them live atleast through day 1 to see if they are lying or not.

CKD tells HJ that Kate is defending J-man.

N-N tells CKD his entire line of thinking relies on the assumption that J-Man is scum, if J-Man is scum it might logically follow that Kate is scum for defending him. Asks CKD why he isn't voting J-man.


--Only thing I don't like is the if J-man is scum we lynch Kate the next day part of that post.

Kate posts defense, again.

CKD concedes to N-N, says he has been pretty unhelpful since replacing in.

- bullcrap you made basically everyone re-examine Kate's posts, and were being active, and brought about lots of discussion, which is generally pretty good play from a new player especially.

MOS wants to know why J-man is voting him.

J-man umm doesn't have a case against MOS, waiting for one to appear.

-ewww

Adel puts what she thinks CKD actually meant in his last post.


The - are me talking.

Ask if anything is unclear, or if you want more clarification, or basically have any questions feel free to ask and I'll be happy to answer them.

[pickemgenius]

Ask if anything is unclear, or if you want more clarification, or basically have any questions feel free to ask and I'll be happy to answer them.

Who is scummier in your book: curiouskarmadog or dylan?

dylan by a mile, him saying lurking is ok because I do it all the time, him not posting a defense, his votes with little/no reasoning behind them, his general anti-town behavior makes this an easy choice.

CKD- I totally feel that he has been very vocal, and he is trying to help the town progress which I like about him, he isn't afraid to go for it, when he feels like he has something.

[pickemgenius]

Vote Count (#12)

dylan41985: 6 (ThAdmiral, Kate, molestargazer, HungryJoe, J-man, curiouskarmadog)
curiouskarmadog: 2 (Numeronean7, Adel)
Mastermind of Sin: 1 (dylan41985)
pickemgenius: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)

Not voting: 2 (pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Oh and Deadlines are bad Per were arn't ready to make a lynch yet not enought info out there yet give us a a couple more days or a week, before you announce deadline plz :'( deadlines tend to cause townies to get lynched.

Yes, I know. But Day 1 has been going on for quite some time now, and no really big new issues have come forward in the past days. I will probably be aiming for the 4th of July for the deadline. No reason to panic yet.

CKD's vote is on J-man, not dylan.

[pickemgenius]

I'm not back yet, but I got the chance to post. Once I'm dead and you all discover that I'm innocent...please lynch Kate, molestargazer, and MasterMind of Sin.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. Although I doubt you'll do it since you aren't listening now.

Alrighty, umm reasons maybe? I'll atleast give you till you get back(July 1st) until I vote for you, because I seriously hope you have more to say then that.

FOS:dylan41985

[pickemgenius]

Kate, I don't feel like defending myself because it's just no use. Stop asking me to explain myself! I have nothing else to say. You all think I'm scum because it's the easy way out. And because I was lurking?

GOOD BYE KATE.
it looks like you won this battle...although I really do want to stay in the game.

*sigh*

dylan your anti-town behavior throughout the entire game is frustrating.

Vote: dylan41985 HE IS AT L-1 NOW, PROCEED WITH CAUTION.

Here is his post breakdown:


Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:42 pm

Vote: carrotcake

[/b]

-random vote, ok

Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:02 pm

unvote: carrotcake

vote: J-man

for seeming over-zealous to get to night time (maybe so he can kill me?)

- holy shit, provided a little bit of reasoning behind his vote, could/should have cut out that maybe so he can kill me part.

Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:43 pm

joining a bandwagon vote may seem suspicious, but it's too obvious! I'm not that dumb.

-WIFOM, EWW.

Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:56 pm

unvote

-....

Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:37 pm

vote J-man

again

- no reasoning given what so ever, J-man didn't even post between his unvote, and revote.

Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:42 am

Mod:

does J-man have 2 or 3 votes?

-.....
Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:07 pm

yeah what is up with me, Kate? I'm not your prey.

- .....
Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:22 am

it is kind of suspicious that Mastermind of Sin confidently states that "J-man is not scum." Are they working together?

Mastermind - can you explain why he isn't scum?

- attempt to look like he is contributing.

Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:06 am

Adel, I don't know what I just said that made you vote for me. you know this is one of my first games

- newbie card played.

Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:37 pm

I've already accepted that I'm going to be lynched. I'm innocent though.
Do me a favor and kill off Adel, Kate, molestargazer. They're scum.

- no reasoning given to why we should suspect Adel, Kate, and mole, no defense posted.

Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:39 pm

unvote: J-man
Vote: Mastermind of Sin

not that it matters.

I think Mastermind is more scummy than Kate[/b]

- Umm, MOS wasn't even on the list you made 2 minutes prior to posting this, again no reasoning given for the vote.

Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:32 pm

wow Adel! maybe you do have some townie goodness in your heart!

- Adel promptly tells him to be quiet, and post something.

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:37 pm

You know, I would almost rather be lynched and watch all the mafia who voted for me squirm and the townspeople feel guilty as you find out that I'm innocent. However, my life is more important to me.

Everyone says I'm a horrible player and they hate the way I play. Ok, that's fine. That makes sense. I like to lurk and watch your posts.

But you're all suspicious of me because I haven't said much and only wrote ten words when I did speak. That isn't fine. I don't think you can justify any type of theory that lurking makes me scummy. Lurking is one of my favorite pastimes and if you want to hate on me for that, then that's not very nice.

You all say "EXPLAIN YOURSELF, DYLAN. WE WANT TO HEAR YOUR EVIDENCE."

I say...No. All I have to explain is that I didn't have much to say. And I want to hear YOUR evidence. Real evidence against me. Ironically, the only people who know that I am innocent are the mafia, because they know I'm not on their side. And they are the people putting ideas in your brains. They're brainwashing you to make me seem scummier than I am!

I really feel like many of the attacks on me are crazy.

For example... molestargazer says "

Appealing to emotion. Just because you're a new player doesn't mean you're not scum

" and then goes on to say "

I really don't like the way you're playing. You seem panicky under pressure, and that's understandable - but I want to get some firm evidence and something solid to discuss

."

This is such a flimsy argument!

Please let me know what else makes me sound scummy and I'll tell you my reasoning.

- lurking =/= ok, that whole post is just icky.

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:11 pm

omg i love your visuals, Adel!

-.....

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:45 pm

Hey all: I'm actually in the same boat as NabakovNabakov, except I'm not sure exactly how much I'll be able to post. Don't vote me out while I'm gone! haha

- Don't vote me out while i'm gone, just is unneccessary, and weird, and a town member shouldn't need to say that.

Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:06 pm

I'm not back yet, but I got the chance to post. Once I'm dead and you all discover that I'm innocent...please lynch Kate, molestargazer, and MasterMind of Sin.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. Although I doubt you'll do it since you aren't listening now.

- we are listening dylan, you just haven't given us anything to listen to. Again no reasoning for who he suspects.

Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:54 pm

Kate, I don't feel like defending myself because it's just no use. Stop asking me to explain myself! I have nothing else to say. You all think I'm scum because it's the easy way out. And because I was lurking?

GOOD BYE KATE.
it looks like you won this battle...although I really do want to stay in the game.

- You say we aren't listening to you, then you say you don't have to explain yourself. Umm seriously. It isn't only because you are lurking why we are voting for you, it is your general anti-town behavior.

[pickemgenius]

I wasn't expecting you to post until July 1 to be honest.

[pickemgenius]

...dylan, at least try to explain the inconsistencies they pointed out. They are glaringly obvious.

- I think he still needs to explain them.

we can just ignore him for now, and he'll be lynched/vigged/nightkilled eventually

- I don't think we can ignore anybody. Ever.

That being said, I do not want either J-man or Dylan to be lynched. They are protown, and I'm highly amused that both of them have attacked me repeatedly this game, but that just contributes to my feeling that they are protown at this point

-How does attacking you make them protown, and if dylan has all these inconsistencies that you talk of what pro town things has he done in your opinion.


I'll look over everything again later tonight.

[pickemgenius]

First off

Unvote:

Second off:

I'll take a peek at CKD later tonight, he's at L-1 right now for the record.

[pickemgenius]

Vote: no lynch

We have no info to go on

- Alright, No Lynch=Bad for town nuff said.

My people have brought up the fact that i did vote no lynch. My reasoning behind this vote was to see who would be the most eager to jump on someone else's' back and direct attention away from themselves. I have have found the person that i was looking for.

Unvote.
FoS: J-man
Vote: J-man

However since J-man has no bandwagon forming that could overtake my rather large bandwagon and not getting killed is my strategy.

Unvote
Vote: Molestargazer

- As i've said before, not voting somebody simply because they don't have a bandwagon already going strikes me as weird.

In response to J-man, My strategy has Changed because I am up to be killed, i would personally like to play for a while and not be killed at the start.

I re-voted for mole because he was the only other person to be getting votes; the only other person that could over take my rising lynch votes.

However i still think that J-man is in the mafia. His bit about wanting to be killed was very inviting. So ill try to get his bandwagon going.

Unvote
Vote: J-man

-Nobody wants to be killed, says he voted mole so it would be less likely he would be lynched. Wants to get a bandwagon going.

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

No i think that he is the cop/doc but doesn't want to revel that to the mafia who he really is.

- Newbie scum rolefishing?

Can the mod say all the jobs handed out or is there a place i can go to see them?

- Not sure about the intention of this post.

Christ, that was 12 pages of a big pile of confusing. OK first lets

unvote: J-man

.

Even though the “lets-get-a-quick-lynch-and-see-what-happens,-wait-I-didnt-mean-me” maneuver was idiotic, admitting he thought about false claiming idea was sad, and I will just take my ball and go home (i.e. I will kill myself) was just plain immature…..

..actually I just talked myself back into

FoS-ing: J-man

. I think he has got some power. Town or mafia power I just don’t know yet.

From page one however, I have thought dylan41985 was quite scummy. For reasons that everyone has already stated. So..

vote dylan41985

I know that puts him close to lynching and that looks scummy (for me), but if I am right and he is scum, then we benefit.

- Uses everybody elses reasons, but somewhat justified by being a replacement.

Let me address I couple different items here…first:

curiouskarmadog=Tromboner

Again, a lurking player recently replaced. Tromboner was acting really weird: voting no-lynch, voting molestargazer just because of the bandwagon, then disappearing. curiouskarmadog hasn't posted much, and didn't say much. Voting J-man because he "has some power"?? Unvoting and then jumping on a bandwagon? Don't like this player much at all.

Actually since I have been here (to replace Tromboner) I only unvoted J-Man and voted Dylan. I never placed a vote on J-man (that was done by Tromboner before I got here). But I understand your mistake, I had to come in reading 12 pages of thread too.

I didn’t so much jump on a bandwagon as much as I thought Dylan was guilty. Why did/do I think Dylan is scummy? (to answer Adel’s question too) More of the same everyone else has said. He usually pops in only to cast a vote. Lurks. Then when the heat is on makes a very poor defense. Just looks scummy.

BUT, then I started thinking. Went to bed last night (after I read Adel’s unvote) and thought about it. (considering I am relatively new, is it bad to think about this game while trying to sleep?)

Once I got up and saw that he “hopes” we vote for him I decided he is probably telling the truth (about hoping we vote for him). I think he is not so much lurking, but not interested in the game because he does not have any power

. He is probably young and wants to be a in a game where he can do something, and if he does not have power, he is bored with it. Which probably explains why so many replacements were needed for this game. I think Dylan is immature and does want to see us lynch him so he can say I “told you so” So…

Unvote Dylan41985

Numenorean7, enjoyed reading your brief analysis (even though it does target me). I hope it is not some grand mafia trick to divert our eyes from you. But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia. At any rate, your post made me go back and look at everyone…Kate is setting off my scum vibe so I thought it was funny that she did yours as well (underneath my apparent scumminess, of course) I do not like when people use older games as defenses, she IS unpleasant, and she defends one of the town’s scummiest looking (J-Man). But doesn’t have a problem putting away Dylan…Is there a Kate + J-Man connection? Numenorean7, you have indirectly made me look at J-man again…at any rate, I think it would be worth a Kate vote…to see her reaction.

Vote: Kate

Also keeping an eye on the MoS and Pick contest….guess we will have to wait till Pick gets back for that to continue.

And Adel, liked the graphic, have no freaking clue what I am looking at, but a appreciate the effort.

- I see something I don't like so much in this post (see underlined) it's like he's setting himself up so whenever he has some pressure on him, he can "hope" people vote for him, and can reference back to this, saying that he trusted dylan when he said that, and claim to have no power.

-Don't like the replacements =/= scum logic.

Attack on Kate for "defending" J-man.

But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia.

This is the only line that stands out to me. I didn't believe that for a second. It is a horrible reason for thinking that someone isn't scummy. Care to explain?

Yeah sure no problem. Keep in mind this is only my theory. I think for the most part replacements are vanilla townies. I think if some research was done on replaced people it would be discovered that 99.99% of them were townies. Here is why. People on this board play multiple games at once. It can get every confusing. What would you rather spend your time with? A game where you had no power, or a game that you had the power (like mafia)? Granted there are exceptions: vacations, illness, etc etc, but for the most part, those “characters” needing replacements would rather play other games and are not very interested in games that they have no power, that is why they “lurk” or quit all together. So in general (again there are always exceptions) I don’t look to the replaced characters first.

Starting a wagon on Kate doesn't appeal to me after J-man and dylan41985, I think it could just be another wagon on a weaker player.

I am not so sure we

should

let J-man off the rope. In my opinion Kate and J-man are together.

- Is quite confident about replacements =/= scum, and a Kate-J-man pair.

More of him getting on Kate for "defending" J-man.

More of him getting on Kate for her claimed playstyle.

CKD, your entire line of thinking relies on the assumption that J-Man is scum, if J-Man is scum it

might

logically follow that Kate is scum for defending him. However, why aren't you voting J-Man? It doesn't make any sense to vote the connection but not the source. If J-man is lynched (looking increasingly unlikely, dude has no votes) and comes up scum, then we can lynch Kate, but for now you're just building castles in the air. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for the time being, but don't press it.

ugh, I guess you have a point...I hate backing down though. Think you sold me with the "building castles in the air" comment. You appealed to the poetic side of me....at any rate, you are right or at least you make sense...so

Unvote Kate, Vote J-man

FoS: Kate

, though

which means at the point as a replacement (or a player in this game) I have been pretty useless considering the first thing I did after replacing the player was unvote J-man...sorry town.

- No bandwagon was forming on Kate, so after N-N asks why he isn't voting J-man then, he promptly votes him. (trying to get another BW started, after his last one failed????)

Wait...did ckd

actually

say that replacements are less likely to be mafia? Umm, that is so wrong on so many levels, and it stinks of scum just trying to clear themselves by saying all the other replacements are less likely to be scum.

FoS: CKD

yeah I did...just my personal theory and experience. Granted I am new, but I would put good money on that most replacements (i.e. higher than normal game percentages) are townie. I know, this is bad logic. But until I see something that proves me wrong, I will stick to it.

but I understand your FoS on me.

Wait, you know it's bad logic, but you'll stick with it? That makes no sense whatsoever. All it takes is a quick look through past games to realize that you are wrong. I can't count the number of times I have replaced into a game as scum. Off the top of my head, there was Dichotomafia and one of the DP games (11, I think). I haven't done any replacing in over a year, for the most part, so it's hard to recall the various games.

well you have that experience to go on. I am a betting man, and have noted how many people bow out of games (that I have then replaced) and were town, yet they are strong posters on other threads….that I am sure they found more interesting because they probably had power in other games. So far in my career with this game (this site and others), every time I have been a replacement, I have been a townie.

...at any rate, it was just a theory...I have not read too many threads that I am not in...can you direct me to one that had such a scenario?

At this point in the game, replacements are not on my radar. This game is up to 3 now right? I think there are far more scummier people in this thread.

- MOS "sets him straight" on the replacement =/= scum issue.
- Still writes off all replacements.

His post 13 is completely irrelevant, and doesn't need to be be quoted (check if you want)

Vote Count (#12)

dylan41985: 5 (ThAdmiral, Kate, molestargazer, HungryJoe, J-man)
curiouskarmadog: 2 (Numeronean7, Adel)
Mastermind of Sin: 1 (dylan41985)
pickemgenius: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
J-man: 1 (curiouskarmadog)

Not voting: 2 (pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Well, with Pick moving his vote to dylan we are indeed one away. Not sure why he is telling us to proceed with caution, when Pick a.) thinks Dylan is scum and b.) Proceeds to go post by post why Dylan is scummy. If he is scum don’t you want to vote him?

You're horrible scum if you're scum, and you're a worse townie if innocent! I've reached the stage where even if you

do

come up innocent, I won't regret it because at this stage, you're practically scum even as a townie! You draw suspicion away from them entirely, and because of it, they can slide by with a smug grin and without a care, because you are practically lynchig yourself FOR THEM!

I agree with the first part of this statement. However, even if he is the town idiot, he is still the town, which helps our odds. I am adamant about who I think are the scum, and Dylan just does not fit into my suspicions. Unless someone sees a Dylan-J-man-Kate connection. (how many mafia are the suppose to be in this game, sorry I can find that post, I think it is 3-4?) I do not have enough information to vote for him, much less cast that last vote to hang him. The only information I can deduce from hanging him (provided that he

is

the town idiot) is to check who pushed to vote him and who actually voted (which would indeed help my J-man/Kate theory)…but I cant vote someone I think is an idiot town to help that theory…

I think he does not care if he stays in this game or not. I think given his apparent immaturity that if he had any power (town or mafia) he would at least try a little harder.

So I will take Pick's reccomendation and show caution.

-FTR, I didn't want anybody to incidentally drop the hammer.
- Says unless there is a Dylan,J-man,Kate connecttion he doesn't see dylan as scum.

oh yeah, and MoS...think my theory about replacements (higher than normal % are town) are about to be shattered..in another game that a replacement is coming in for a character I am certian is scummy...however, the roles are not known yet soo...who knows.

- Finally realizes that replacements can be scum.

However, even if he is the town idiot, he is still the town, which helps our odds.

I disagree.
With the way he's playing, he's just drawing logical attention to himself, and taking attention away from the scum who can just sit back.

I disagree with your disagreement on many levels. Are you saying that you do not have enough will power to be able to over look the town idiot? There is more than 1 mafia out there. Are you suggesting, with Dylan around, you simply lack the capacity to look for other scum? With Dylan here (assuming he is the town idiot) he gives the town another person the mafia will have to get rid of (thus improving our odds). I find it interesting that you want to argue improving the town’s odd against the mafia. OR are you wanting to do the mafia’s work for them?

At any rate I am definitely

FoSing molestargazer

….if this lynch goes down (and it probably will) it will be interesting to see who really pushed this hasty lynch (during the reread)…

this town is full of scummy people (see my previous posts) J-man is as guilty (in many regards) as Dylan...yet he is under the radar right now...I wonder why that is?

-The town is full of scummy people, of which he mentions 2 people (Kate,J-man) basically the whole time to this point.
-Nobody should ever just be overlooked.

More of him going after Mole.

You are "adamant about who I think are the scum"? I assume you mean Kate and J-man. Surely there's not enough evidence for to be adamant yet? I'm no fan of Kate or J-man, but I think being adamant about anything on Day 1 is risky at best. The only people who can be sure of anything yet are the Mafia....

Being “adamant” or “insistent” is completely different than thinking anything is a sure thing. Now, what “strikes me” as interesting is the fact that you are setting me up for a Day 2 suspicion now aren’t you?

He's pretty sure that there will be a dylan lynch, and he wants to be able to say, "I told you so" on Day 2. I know this is completely insubstantial, not evidence at all. But it just strikes me that way.

Lets say the “Dylan lynching” goes down and he is innocent…”Hmmm, is Num right? Is Curious trying to say I told you” if he is guilty “Hmm, Curious really did not want that lynch”. Sort of a lose-lose situation for me you are painting there aren’t you? If Dylan is innocent, I want to explore who really pushed this lynch…but you would rather focus who opposed it? Interesting. I think you are stretching. In your eyes right now, you think I am scum, so anything I might do will be scummy…but that is a stretch.

- I can understand both Num's and CKD thoughts on this.

What information do we gain from lynching dylan today? We have nothing to go on from his lynch, so we just revert to everyone else we were attacking today. He is most likely not scum, and his lynch will not accomplish anything. I'd rather just request that he be replaced, because he obviously is not playing the game, nor does he have any wish to play. Even if we can't replace him, though, we can just ignore him for now, and he'll be lynched/vigged/nightkilled eventually.

QFT

J-man is still a candidate, but not much of one. It is interesting the pickemgenius just used similar warning against a dylan lynch that he did against a J-man lynch, which made MOS so suspicious of him in the first place. My vote remains on curiouskarmadog.

And why is J-man not a candidate? Because he has said actually Jack lately...seems like a smart move. Basically this posts says, J-man and Pick could be candidates, but I would rather keep my vote on Curious...ahh, logic

-Doesn't like Adel's vote on him.
-Continues with going after J-man.

in actuallity i just dont want to play with Dylan i have had him with me in too many games and he does the same things so yes i am sick of it, it allways ends up in a town lynch anyway because no1 wants to go to lylo with Dylan (would you?) kill me if you will but from now on i will not rest until Dylan dies, or i will ask to be replaced, i will not play with som1 who will not play the game.

He does this every game? Then it is his poor place style. Just because you are tired of it, in no means we should lynch the VI. Again, I think he is town...I DO NOT WANT TO LYNCH TOWN...and I am considered with why everybody who does. Dylan is not "distracting" us..we are. Lets move on. J-man actions are not pro-twon....MoS please show me a post where J-man has been pro-town. Lynching someone who is just a poor player and is probably town will only put the odds in the mafia's favor.

- It's true he is like this in every one of his other games, and he hasn't come up scum in any of them (yet, Hence my unvote.)

Can't show MOS anywhere where dylan has been protown.

His post 22 is a quick EBWOP

Mod- I would like to be replaced

Well Christ. Now what? SO you want to be replaced because you can not stand Dylan? Didnt you see Dylan in the lineup when you confirmed? Will have to reread but was there much interaction between Dylan and J-man…and why didnt J-man say in his public post that he only wanted to be replaced if Dylan wasn’t? Who knows…

Personally I think he cracked. Maybe he has some RL stuff going on, might investigate to see if you are active in other games.

Day 2 suspicion? What about Day 1 suspicion?
We seem to be using different definitions of adamant:

adamant - utterly unyielding in attitude or opinion in spite of all appeals, urgings, etc

In the same dictionary.com site

Adamant - determined or insistent

Your original post you were referencing Day 2 I addressed that. We am aware of your suspicion for Day 1.

Well, perhaps a replacement will be helpful. I wonder what curious will think of this: the new guy can't be Mafia since he was a replacement.

(laugh) it certianly does not help my theory that there are a higher than normal ratio of townie versus mafia in replacements, does it? Well, J-man has not been replaced yet.

and one other thing I keep meaning to get back to...

Why are you being so dismissive curiouskarmadog? The logic is there, just in previous posts. You are correct though, in addition to yourself and dylan, J-man and pickem are the other probable scum candidates.. mostly because your ruse to build a bandwagon on Kate in order to force her to claim failed. You will not fool the rest of the town for long.

What? What I am being dismissive about? I did not particularly like your mistruth either, please show us where I asked (or even implied) I wanted Kate to claim? I think claiming on the most part is silly Day 1..maybe you should spend less time making silly charts no one can read and means little, to actually reading the posts. Matter of fact, other than regurgitating what other people have said and misquoting people, what have you really added to the discussion?

FoS Adel

-Thinks J-man has "cracked"
-Starts to semi-go after Adel.
-Definition of words, replacement talk.

Thanks for breaking down my posts…all you really have shown, is that I believe Kate and J-man are guilty and I am looking for their 3rd. You have also demonstrated how I have been trying to get the group to questions others as not to lynch the VI.

you pressured kate, hard and relentlessly, clearly attempting to establish a bandwagon based on nothing more than her defending J-man. Once your bandwagon clearly was unable to move, you poke around a little, accuse several players while revealing yourself to be a hypocrite, and finally you attack me.

how am I hypocrite? I am actually doing something for the town.

I am starting a bandwagon on you now. I've quietly voiced my suspicions for a while now, letting you post more, watching you flail about trying to discover who is a weaker player not who is a scummier player.

You have been hungry for another bandwagon, I hope you appreciate the irony that it is on you.

This whole statement is ridiculous. Quietly voiced? You are joking right? You have tried to get this bandwagon started for some time now. I am not hungry for another bandwagon, I just want to lynch scum. I am trying to discover weaker players? Really, by your own account I have “attacked” Mole, Num, and yourself? I don’t define either of the 3 as weaker players, do you? I think J-man and Kate are scum, do you think they are less scummier than Mole, Num, and yourself? Then how am I looking for weaker players? I am trying to find scum.

Ok, again adel you have twisted my actions and thoughts somewhat. I wouldn’t say I attacked Num what as much as attacked his set up for a day 2 suspicion (either way you are scum logic). I think Numenorean7 is town, at least his reasoning seems pro-town. I also understand why Numenorean7 is helping with the start of the wagon on me, because he thinks I am scum, and he can not peg down Dylan, who he also thinks is scum…so I have no hard feelings toward you Numenorean7, do what you go to. But Adel you are wasting the town’s time, and that looks suspicious to me. Go ahead and start your bandwagon...I am interested to see who joins it.

- I would say for the most part you have been going after some of the "weaker" players, I really don't think anything you did regarding Num,Mole,Adel qualifies as *much* of an attack, in relation to how you have been going after Kate,J-man.

Yep, it is going to really pick up steam now. (laughing) I think this bandwagon will be ripe for the lynching so I will help everyone on the reread later. Here is the running total.

Numenorean7,
Adel
J-man who is now Crub

Need 4 more, which wont be hard because I havent made many friends here as a replacement trying to stir conversation for scum hunting. Guess I left myself open for a perfect mafia manipulated lynched. I actually think my band wagon might provide the most information yet for the town. This is where it will get interesting, me thinks.

At any rate, I will provide (again for your Adel) why I feel Crub is scum when I have more time to quote posts and go through the thread. But I doubt you really need or want it.

Why I put it together, Crub, maybe you can share why you feel, Kate is scum…

- I just don't like the tone of this post that much.
- Subtle way to divert away attention from him(possibly) by asking Crub why he feels Kate is scum.

Man my post sounds rushed reading 18 pages took a lot out of me

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

- Tone is bad.

Why I put it together, Crub, maybe you can share why you feel, Kate is scum…

The only reason I think Kate is scum is because I think you are scum, and I think there is a connection between Kate and You. I'm basing this on, as I said before how Kate reacted to Tromboners, No Lynch and how you attacked her for 2 pages and then gave up your attack because kate appealed to your "poetic side"

Man my post sounds rushed reading 18 pages took a lot out of me

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

Personally I don't think you can tell much from a person's position in a bandwagon the whole thing seems WIFOM to me. Having said that I'm not trying to get in early, I'm trying to get in on the right target.

DUDE, you really need to go reread this thread again...your facts are VERY wrong....this only helps my case against this scum..when I get sometime this weekend...I will prove it.

-Umm, Kate is scum because J-man(Crub) is scum.
- Him voting for you and wanting to get in on the right target helps your case against him to being scum?
-Also the weekend is now over.

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

This just seems like a pointless attack and finger-pointing on a new replacement to me.

this actually wasnt pointless, he completely messed up his facts (will show you how my "why I think crub is scummy" post, which I hope I can do tomorrow.

AND for the reread that will come!

Numenorean7,
Adel
Crub
MoS

Not surprised by this vote though, MoS thinks more info will come by my hanging than Dylan's..which I tend to agree, which is why I am posting the vote count, it will be easy for the town later. My hanging will result in a lot of suspicion on Numenorean7, Adel(who really pushed for it), and the hammer. This is how I think the votes will go down from here…I will get the HungryJoe vote once he logs back in and once Admiral sees the town is in to the bandwagon he will do his trademark not much content vote…who will be the 3rd? My guess is mole or Kate (both would have reason to vote). Of course I would not be surprised if the VI did me in...that my friends WOULD be irony. That leaves NabNab and Pick. Now Pick has been in and out since MoS turned the pressure on him, and he is the only one who (as of late) hasn’t jumped on my bandwagon or FoSed me and I already have NabNab’s FoS. So it really doesn’t look good for me. I am confident Hungryjoe and Admiral votes will come shortly…so who will be the hammer?

Interesting thought to ponder, for a guy (who is on the chopping block for being mafia) I sure have a ton of people as enemies and little support.

At any rate, give me till Sunday (it will be time consuming) to get my Crub is SCUM post in…and since I cant post after I am dead, I want to get all my finger pointing in now.

For your information I wasn't planning to vote for you but your smug comment "I am confident Hungryjoe and Admiral votes will come shortly" makes me want to more than ever.

then do so or just add to the conversation more. I am not afraid of this lynch. I came into this game as a replacement and not from the beginning...OF course I dont want to be lynched, but this thing will happen. I just want the town to learn something from the lynch that is all. Admiral, why weren’t you going to vote for me before? You thought I was town? Or didn’t want to be part of the wagon?

I am disappointed by the NabNab vote. I am not resigning to anything. This lynch will happen because the mafia is REALLY manipulating you guys. I am typing this to help you guys later.

THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE

. I am not trying to appeal to emotion from anyone. Hopefully by this lynch, you guys will figure out where to go next. Not being the VI here, NabNab…their posts where mainly, “go ahead and lynch me, you will be sorry, and this is who I think are scum”….I WANT you to lynch me…At the time Crub and Dylan lynches would not have helped you, though I feel a Crub lynch now will give us tons of info, just the bandwagon alone is given you guys much info, but without my lynch, it doesnt have much context.

At any rate, will be gone for most of the day, will be back this evening, at least let me get that Crub post in.

AND for the reread that will come!

Numenorean7,
Adel
Crub
MoS
NabNab

You want a claim NabNab? Vanilla town here, but really what else would anyone say? 2 more votes..

- Those last two posts are just.... icky.
It's like not a defense, and he has atleast shown some capability to attack people, so how come he doesn't have the ability to defend himself?

The difference between him,dylan, and J-man, is that the latter two never really attacked anybody solidly, and were quick to "resign" to the fact that they were going to be lynched, where as you are fully capable and have shown to everybody that you are capable of attacking people.

BIG FOS: CKD

I want to look over few more things before I make this a vote.

[pickemgenius]

<snip>*shrug* ckd made a pretty good defense, imo<snip>]

I would like to hear how you find his defense good, when he so blatantly said it was not a defense.

[pickemgenius]

MoS:
IIRC, your vote on pickem was based mainly on his suggestion that someone else vote for J-man, and his iffy defense/denial thereafter. This seems slim evidence for the kind of confidence you've been displaying.

I will find time for a re-read tonight and tomorrow. If I notice anything new, I'll be sure to mention it.

Did you notice that he did much the same thing with BOTH Dylan and CKD? With CKD's wagon quickly growing, he merely placed an FoS, adding to the suspicion, encouraging others that this was a generally accepted wagon without participating himself. If anything, I'm more confident in my vote now than before.

Alrighty.

With CKD I knew he was fully capable of making a defense for himself as he has attacked others pretty relentlessly throughout his time here, I wanted to give him one more chance to defend himself properly (which he did) before I would have voted for him.

With dylan, you said the inconsistancies were glaringly obvious, yet he still hasn't ever adressed them, and you're totally convinced he's town, just because his playstyle (???). Well he plays like this as both town and anti-town.

[pickemgenius]

Pickem's behavior with large wagons:

J-man: 6 ( NabakovNabakov (fak), ThAdmiral, ckd (Tromboner), dylan41985, Mastermind of Sin, Adel)
pickem places a FoS.

My example may be crap, that's why I haven't placed an FOS, IGMEOY, or VOTE on J-man this whole time.

I NEVER put on FOS on J-man, but thanks for lying about that.

dylan41985: 5 (ThAdmiral, Kate, molestargazer, HungryJoe, J-man)
pickem placed a vote putting dylan at -1.

Yeah, I did, he was/is scummier then hell, he still hasn't responded about all the massive inconsistencies that are "glaringly obvious". He does play like this as town, or anti-town, so playstyle now becomes a null-tell.

curiouskarmadog: 5 (Numeronean7, Adel, Crub, NabakovNabakov, Kate)
pickem places a FoS. dylan's vote came after pickem's FoS .

I've already explained my FOS on him.

hypothesis: the J-man and ckd contain two scum partnered with pickem, while the dylan wagon only contained 1.

remember, fak=NabNab, carrotcake=Hun. joe, and danmonkey=Num7, Tromboner=ckd

Adel and NabakovNabakov are the two players who were on both the J-man and ckd wagons, but neither were on the dylan wagon. Could
Adel, NabakovNabakov, and pickem be scum together with dylan, and pickem was bussing dylan with -1 vote? Not likely, IMHO, since I know I'm town, but that is the easiest way to make the facts fit my hypothesis.

Just when I was thinking that this exercise was a waste of time, I noticed the relationship between dylan and pickem.

When I have time I'll read back through looking for instances where dylan follows pickem's lead. I think there may be a connection there, and it would make sense if our VI is scum that he would follow the lead of a stronger player.

I'm quite interested what relationship you won't find between me and dylan.

Now looking at you and MOS on the other hand is a different situation, you've been lubey-dubey with each other all game, this isn't a scum tell(yet), just it might be for later on.

[pickemgenius]

Yeah, I did, he was/is scummier then hell, he still hasn't responded about all the massive inconsistencies that are "glaringly obvious". He does play like this as town, or anti-town, so playstyle now becomes a null-tell.

I'm not going to take you at your word on this. Exactly

where

have you seem him play like this as scum?

Open 23, just got finished, he was a werewolf.

[pickemgenius]

P.S you were in that game.

[pickemgenius]

HERE ARE HIS OPEN 23 POSTS.

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:46 pm

vote: OJ.

With that name, he must be guilty!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:53 pm

This is turning out to be a very interesting vote! I could switch my vote to Adel, but I need some convincing.

Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:39 am

unvote
vote: now a ranger

Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:40 am

sorry, but looking back at your posts I think you gave yourself away

Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:13 pm

unvote: NAR

Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:27 pm

i might revote for NAR, but I'm still not sure

Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:29 am

yes I lost confidence. why are you mad at me?

Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:16 am

vote: J-man

Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:04 am

i'm easily convinced by other people's arguments.

Don't draw the suspicion towards me if others are also voting for the same person. They;re just as guilty of voting so don't make me feel so guilty.

Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:50 pm

beanbagboy has been flying under the radar a little too much for me... I'd like to hear more from him, because right now he looks like scum.

DAY 2

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:42 pm

I could have guessed that Adel would be killed next by the evils of the town, but wow - he had no chance.

I'm going to be gone all of next week and I don't know how much I'll be able to post.

I'm highly suspicious of Sir Tornado and Stewie though...

Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:59 pm

Hey all,
I'm going to

vote: Stewie

more explanations to come next week

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:44 pm

I don't get why there are three people not voting.

are they trying to play it safe or what?

Oj - if you are a monk or mason you should have said it.

unvote
vote: ojpower

Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:55 pm

Vote: LSU Tiger Josh

sweeny - the wolves won't kill you overnight. I've been protecting you all game.

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:54 am

pleeeeeeeeeease Sweenytodd. you still have a chance to go far in this game

Look at my Post 9 with Newest first, and compare.
Not sure how his Day 2 town behavior *would* be, I will look to see if there is a finished game where he has made it to Day 2 as town, and further compare.

He wasn't ever really pressured in Open 23 though, I do note that.

[pickemgenius]

I haven't seen any specific goals that Dylan is going after, and he isn't hoping on to bandwagons as blantantly here as he was there.

I believe there have been 3 bandwagons:

His
J-Man
CKD

He was on both J-man, and CKD, both votes provided

without

reasoning, and put CKD at L-1 as quietly as possible.

[pickemgenius]

Having said that

vote pickem

. I agree with MoS as to why pickem is scum. He was inconsistent when it came to the J-Man lynch.

Care to come up with your own reason, and even that reason is pretty weak, atleast give us something new for us to discuss.

[pickemgenius]

Having said that

vote pickem

. I agree with MoS as to why pickem is scum. He was inconsistent when it came to the J-Man lynch.

Care to come up with your own reason, and even that reason is pretty weak, atleast give us something new for us to discuss.

No wonder no one has been lynched if everyone who votes has to supply a different reason.

Anyway your actions during the J-Man bandwagon seemed scummy to me. From the start you directed suspicion at J-Man while being very hands off, it's like you didn't want to be involved with the lynching of an innocent townie.

First you convinced Tromboner to start the bandwagon :

You're right in the fact that J-man has been somewhat vocal about your lynch.
Thats a fair point.
A bandwagon doesn't start out of thin air.
If people agree with you, then they might vote for him.

Then you agree that we should be putting pressure on J-Man to get information yet you don't vote for him:

While however unsmart it may be for J-man to be at L-2 relatively early, it's not a bad thing really, it's building pressure and is giving him a chance to defend himself, so we can have a logical decision on wheter or not he is or is not scum.

We see how he reacts to X(5) amount of votes being placed on him.

Yeah if he defends himself, we can tell if it is good or not, and make more progress from there.

I don't know/see many townies offering themselves to be killed, it's not really smart, but that's just me.

And then as MoS already pointed out you laid out why you thought J-Man was scum and yet still didn't vote.

My vibe-o-meter™ just went from wishy washy to more likely scum. I'm not really happy with his last few posts.

Adel wrote:
why are you not scum? What have you done that is pro-town? Who is a better candidate for scum than you? What have they done that is anti-town?


I felt that you only answered latter two.
Town members NEED to defend themselves always.

The afformentioned scummy vibes i've recently got is that in my first game ever (Newbie 334) one of the scum didn't post a defense for himself, and only listed a suspicion list. So it's almost like deja-vu, with a different person.


I do agree that we need everyone to comment on J-man, so that we don't come to a hasty conclusion.

I hope that meets your requirements for a reason?

First: I didn't talk talk him into starting a J-man bandwagon.
It was just weird that he was all J-man=scum, so I'll vote mole to see if I can save my ass, so I explained that if he feels he has a solid point, then somebody has to start the bandwagon, and at that time I really didn't find J-man scummy.

Second: There was alot of pressure already on J-man, with 5 votes.
I wanted to see his defense first, as I wasn't getting many scummy vibes from him, so basically it would have been unneccessary/stupid for me to add a "pressure" vote and put him at L-1

Third: Yes, my reason for thinking he could be scum was very shitty though(as has been said before, and I've admitted to), I don't believe in dropping a hammer on somebody for a very shitty reason. I wanted more of a defense aswell from him.


So question to you: You say I should have dropped the hammer on J-man, why should I have, when my reason was very shitty?

[pickemgenius]

First: I didn't talk talk him into starting a J-man bandwagon.
It was just weird that he was all J-man=scum, so I'll vote mole to see if I can save my ass, so I explained that if he feels he has a solid point, then somebody has to start the bandwagon, and at that time I really didn't find J-man scummy.

You say you didn't find J-Man scummy but two posts later you agree with CarrotCake over his suspicions of J-Man?

J-Man seems to want to kill so badly, he wants it more than information. Lurking and NoLynch are mistakes, but he should not be killed quickly for it. Especially because the game is still young.

Or I could be wrong, im new too.
CC eyes J-man suspiciously

I think you're pretty spot-on.
That's just me though.

And I don't think it's a want to kill so badly, as much as J-man wants the game to progress exponentially faster then it should

.

I was agreeing the Tromboner shouldn't be lynched so hastily just because a few stupid (possibly) newbie mistakes.

I even kind of defended J-man in that post(see: underlined)

Second: There was alot of pressure already on J-man, with 5 votes.
I wanted to see his defense first, as I wasn't getting many scummy vibes from him, so basically it would have been unneccessary/stupid for me to add a "pressure" vote and put him at L-1

I don't think it would have been stupid. As it turns out it was unnecessary because he claimed at L-2 anyway, although he did say that he wouldn't have claimed a PR until L-1.]

"Pressure" votes shouldn't be used to put somebody at L-1, if you want to put somebody at L-1

just

to add "Pressure" then that's stupid, you need more of a reason then to apply "pressure" to put somebody at L-1.

Third: Yes, my reason for thinking he could be scum was very shitty though(as has been said before, and I've admitted to), I don't believe in dropping a hammer on somebody for a very shitty reason. I wanted more of a defense aswell from him.

So question to you: You say I should have dropped the hammer on J-man, why should I have, when my reason was very shitty?

If you thought he was scum you should have hammered him. If you didn't think he was scum you shouldn't have made a post giving anyone else a reason to hammer him.

Informal Vote Count by my reckoning :
ckd: 3
dylan : 3
MoS : 1
pickem : 2

I thought he was

more likely

scum now. My reasons were very shitty, but you don't hammer somebody because they are

more likely

scum, you drop the hammer when you have non shitty, more concrete examples that the person is scum, and you have to feel like the person

IS

scum, not

more likely

scum.

[pickemgenius]

@CKD- My night-time is now reserved for a reread of this game, and to find out (moreso) who I feel is town/scum. So expect it sometime around 4:45 a.m. Central Time.

[pickemgenius]

Alright T=Town, A=Anti-town, N=No tell/read

During my reread I felt like I should note such behavior, and keep track of it atleast for me, to find out who I feel is town, or not.
Post numbers will be before the T/A, I may make notes for lurking and stuff.

NabakovNabakov/fak

- (252)N,(304)T,(353)T,(408)N,(480)T,(487)T,(564)T

Molestargazer

- (Post 98 )T,(190)T,(195)T,(455)N,

Kate

- (Post 113)N,(136)N,(347)N,(597)N

Crub/J-man-

(Post 71)A/N,(Post 84)A/N,(Post 96)N,(Post 110)N,(128)N,(146)N,(164)A/N,(169)N,(406)N,(440)T,(450)T,

HungryJoe/carrotcake

- (Post 36)A,(Post 50/51)N,(Post 91)T,(262)T,(340)N,(350)N,

dylan41985

- All scummy things written off(for now) due too the high probaility he could be the VI. Also it is his playstyle to be like this, and often get mislynched as town due to his playstyle, and since he's come up as mislynched town FAR more often then he has come up scum, is good enough for me to say he is town (for now)

Adel

- (Post 53)N,(Post 74)A/N,(Post 126)N,(148)T,(181)T,(261)T,(297)N,(308)T,(326)N,(432)T

Numenorean7/DanMonkey-

(Post 124)N,(305)T,(395)T,(430)N,(507)T

curiouskarmadog/Tromboner

-(Post 39)A,(Post 89)A/N,(Post 101)N,(137)N,(292)A/N,(309)N,(326)N,(348)N,(355)N,(365)A,(387)N,(431)N,(436)N,(442)A,(459)A,(463)A,(482)TT,(483)TT,(571)N

Mastermind of Sin

- (Post 46)N,(Post 125)N,(130)T,(177)T,(259)N,(322/323)N,(366)T,(497)T,

ThAdmiral

- (Post 93)N,(144)N,(200)N,(311)N,(329)N,(448)N,(462)T,(542)N


So in all

Tip o' the hat
NabNab
Adel
MOS
Mole(barely)
CKD(barely)
Num(barely)


Wag o' the finger:
Kate(lots of no reads, barely on this list)
Crub(Capable, but J-man was a awkward predecessor)
ThAdmiral(lots of no reads, should be doing more)
HJ(lurkitude+sudden change of heart @ dylan)



In his own universe, and should be left by himself until a later date:
dylan41985

[pickemgenius]

Pickem: As much as I enjoy being at the top of your pro-town list, it would be nice if you could provide more than post numbers and single letter evaluations. Maybe just pick a person on your wagging finger list and put out some serious analysis?

You're not exactly at the top moreso then you're name is #1 on the player list. I was going to do that later tonight, I ended up going to sleep at like 5:20 a.m last night and thought it would be a good idea to catch some z's before I picked out some people from my wag list.


@CKD- N.


@ MOS- I'll answer you later aswell, i'm cranky as hell this morning(afternoon) so I feel it'd be better for my late night analysis because that's when I have the most "relax"/"clear head" time so I can actually think about shit.

[pickemgenius]

@MOS- An Adel/Num combo, also how do you you know there are three scum [/irony]

Looking back to see if it's possible.

After looking at both of their posts individually to see possible interactions between them, I would find it not likely that they are both scum, or atleast there are no solid connections I could find.

*If* I had to say out of the two who is *more likely* scum, I would say Num.


@Wag list suspicions, in which I will break down the posts listed and explain from my point of view what I saw in them.

[pickemgenius]

Kate-(Post 113)N,(136)N,(347)N,(597)N

Post 113

So J-man now has 5 votes, with seven to lynch...great idea town! put him in a position where mafia can easily kill him!
About the whole lurking thing, just because you're not talking as much, doesn't mean you're scum, maybe you're just busy or don't have anything to say about what's going on.
I think Adel is more suspicious in my eyes, how before it seemed he was pushing to kill the lurkers, and looks like he wants bandwagons:

Especially since J-man was the biggest promoter of a pro-town tactic that would quickly identify dylan41985 as potential scum. If dylan was scum planning on lurking into day 2 and beyond, a bandwagon on J-man would provide his best cover... so when J-man identifies him as a lurker is would seem OMGUSy.

Huh. I just sold myself on that theory.

unvote:molestargazer

vote:dylan41985for lurking and casting a suspect vote.

This was right after pickemgenius said something about dylan. And Adel's reasoning didn't seem very good, it seems to me he keeps saying people are scum because of what they will do in the future; that doesn't count as proof. However, what what's-his-face(dylan-something) did was pretty scummy, the way he just dropped in and voted without much reasoning, but I still think Adel is more scum.

Vote:Adel

You see in this post there are a few distinguishing things that are protown, and some things I am unsure about.

Doesn't want a hasty lynch on J-man.-T
States reasoning behind Adel vote-T
Possible distraction away from J-man to Adel-A/N
Defense of lurkers.A/N

Post 136

I would like J-Man to claim.

This is really stupid, if he's a doc or cop, he might claim, if he's mafia, he'll still probably claim cop or doc, or claim vanilla, like he did. If he's a normal townie, he'll claim vanilla like he did.

So asking him to claim, we'll either get a doc, cop, or townie. But we'll actually never know, so what's the point?

now i was really tempted to claim cop/doc just to make you guys squirm because i know that since i am a vannilla townie i really dont have a whole lot of use to you guys,

Saying you were going to fake-claim is extremely stupid. Doing that will most likely get you lynched if someone counter claims.

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

I don't know if I believe him, he's either scum, or an innocent townie.

Also, does anyone find it ironic, not to mention hypocritical, that j-man wanted a quick-lynch, and now that he is facing a potential one he is saying it would be a bad idea?

I don't really think so, maybe he wasn't really thinking when he said that at first, and you can't blame him for saying not to lynch him, no one

wants

to be lynched, mafia nor town.

Doesn't like MOS asking J-man to claim-N(gameplay difference)
Wonders why J-man said he would fake claim-T
Unsure whether or not to believe claim-N
Doesn't find it ironic/hypocritical that J-man is in a position for a quick lynch/Defense of J-man-N


Post 347-

I'm very sorry NabNab, but i truley wasn't trying to defend j-man

do you honestly think we are gong to believe that you are not defending j-man in that post? Please do not make me break this down AGAIN for you. I think it is also pretty scummy that you keep defending him (sometmies indirectly, yes) but wont admit that you are.

yeah, it does look like i'm defending J-man, but that wasn't what i meant to do, if someone acuses someone, and they're wrong, its probably best to say they're wrong, it just so happens someone accused j-man, and i said they were wrong.

Right, you are discussing logic, however at the same time you are defending j-man. You dont want to vote him out or you dont want him to claim. Yet you never ask J-man questions about his possible guilt. You just assume he is innocent, or you just do not care. Actually you dont really ask anyone questions, is that because you already know the answers?..Like who is mafia?

well i'm not trying to defend j-man, someone else said this, it was meant for other threads right? my point is that you shouldn't force someone to claim on day one, you won't get a good answer, you'll always get vanilla townie. That has nothing to do with j-man, that was about having someone, actually anyone, claim. i don't want to vote him out, i would vote him, but then he was at -1, and i wasn't willing to lynch him, but i still didn't want anyone to claim so early in the game.What kind of questions should i ask? I don't really ask anyone questions in this game, its just not my play-style. I don't assume he's innocent, and i do care, i just don't want to lynch him.

-Says she did defend J-man-N
Claim talk-N
Asking questions not her playstyle-A


Post 597

Wow this game goes fast, it's like everyday i check this, there's another page. And it's all very confusing too. I was actually planning on a reread, but i've got 3 brother's with me that are all suddenly in to counter strike, WoW, and now the Sims 2...with 2 computers...just my luck. But anyway, as soon as I find time when they won't kick me off, i'll reread

First off, NabNab; your case on Joe, I'm not convinced. To me, he just wants dylan gone, if he were scum, I don't think he would've stuck to dylan. Wouldn't he have switched to the next scummy player? IMO, sticking with dylan was more pro-town, he saw a scummy player, and wouldn't let him off the hook 'til he explained himself, as he's been doing.

Mastermind seems to be really careless about who he throws his vote to

Next time, you might wanna explain why your voting for someone in the same post, that's kinda why the town's against you

I actually wouldn't mind a dylan lynch, I don't think he's been a help to the town, he just pops in and votes the biggest bandwagon, no explanation, more like a help to the mafia. I also think we would gain just as much info. from a dylan lynch, as any other lynch.

With that said

Vote:Dylan

-Not convince about case on Joe-N
WIFOM-A/N
Sticking with dylan was more pro-town move-A/N
Doesn't mind dylan lynch/votes dylan-A/N
Says w would gain alot of info from a dylan lynch-A/N

ThAdmiral-(Post 93)N,(144)N,(200)N,(311)N,(329)N,(448)N,(462)T,(542)N, BONUS (566)A/N

Post 93

I would like to see j-man pressured.

vote: j-man

-Second vote for pressure reasons-N

Post 144

Did you miss my earlier post directed at you?

While I don't like the posts by J-man so far, I'm going to wait for a little more evidence to base an opinion on.

Voting for lurkers is often a mafia strategy, as they know that they only have to post enough to not be classified lurkers.
It also means that the person killed doesn't provide the town with much information, as he probably didn't get on enough to accuse people etc.

So what is your prescribed course of action? Target those who chase lurkers? Ignore lurkers as if they aren't in the game?

In my opinion our initial objective should be to pressure all players into posting enough content that a reasonable case can be made against a couple players, and a reasonable case can be made for clearing the rest. So long as there is a player out there that I don't have enough information on to found an opinion upon, I'll refuse to extend that player the benefit of the doubt.

ThAdmiral: could you clarify your post, or do you stand by your words as they currently exist?

I do not like the possibility of J-Man being lynched while we still have so many players that I have so little information on.

I say pretty much ignore lurkers for now. They aren't harming the game as much as they would later, and either they will start playing the game or be replaced.

Yes, but if he were mafia he would say he was normal, and if he was normal, he would say he was normal. So with that, we only know he's mafia, normal town, or cop/doc...we really don't know.

Why get him to claim then?

1. If he's cop, he claims cop, we lynch someone else and then the doctor (hopefully) protects him overnight, he reveals his results the next day etc.
2. If he's mafia he might feel pressured and take a risk and claim cop or doc. Either way at least one person knows he's lying, and in these situations the truth will eventually come out.

In this case it is true that we did not gain much information by him claiming vanilla townie, but at least we know that if he is lynched we wont be hitting a power role.

-Indifferent on lurkers-N
Claim talk-N
If he is lynched atleast we don't lose power role-A/N


Post 200

You can gain alot of things from a claim, but people lie in this game. People lie and it's alot harder to tell when they are and when they aren't. You're not playing with them face-to-face, so it's alot easier for them to lie and you believe them, or for you to not believe them and lynch wrong. So really, you don't always gain things from a claim.

You know there are other topics to talk about. You just seem to be getting caught up with the whole claim thing. I'd like to see your opinion on other matters as well.

- Wants more from Kate-T/N

Post 311

@ adel: love the graphic. Do you do this in all the games?

@ dylan: I'm not unvoting you, because you haven't convinced me you're not scum, and at best you are just an extremely unhelpful townie whose bandwagon votes will more often than not help the mafia.

@ numenorean: I see what you're saying about tromboner/curioskarmadog. Although I don't plan on voting I'm going to be keeping an eye on him.

- dylan talk-N
Starting to keep eye on CKD now following Num-N

Post 329

ThAdmiral: who do you think is the scummiest replacement? They are all appearing quite protown, are you as skeptical as I am? Who do you think we should be pressuring, since dylan is going to be offline?

Scummiest replacement: probably ckd. I also thought the line...

But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia.

rubbed me the wrong way, as it seemed to be trying to not-so-subtly imply he was town as well. Something I don't think real towns do. His explanation is acceptable, but I still feel iffy on that line.

Honestly I don't want to change my vote though. I don't want to no-lynch, and at this rate it seems we will. Even though the general rule is that the longer the day the better for the town, there has to be some sort of limit, right?
Furthermore with j-man I felt his 'defence' truly smacked of the disillusionment of a newbie-town. Dylan, however has flatly refused to defend himself, and then goes on to say: "oh I'm off, so you can't really lynch me" in a rather smug way.
He's the best play in my eyes.

- Uses another already used example to explain who he feels is scummiest replacement-A/N
Hints at a deadline?-A/N
dylan is best play-N

Post 448

This whole statement is ridiculous. Quietly voiced? You are joking right? You have tried to get this bandwagon started for some time now. I am not hungry for another bandwagon, I just want to lynch scum. I am trying to discover weaker players? Really, by your own account I have “attacked” Mole, Num, and yourself? I don’t define either of the 3 as weaker players, do you? I think J-man and Kate are scum, do you think they are less scummier than Mole, Num, and yourself? Then how am I looking for weaker players? I am trying to find scum.

If you honestly thought that mole or Num were scum I think you would've pressed harder for longer. As it is, you take a little snipe, discover significant defenses, and move on down the list to the next target.

Well said.

Yes, I believe that ckd could very well be scum. The only people I would not be willing to lynch right now are myself, Adel, Dylen, and Crub (aka J-man)

I can understand how you don't see Dylan's and J-man's behavior as scummy, just newbie. But I don't see why you are so sure they're pro-town: can't newbies be scum, too?

Seconded

I am also interested in the recent tendency of players to include kate in their "scum" category. What is even more interesting is that although many people have done this she still doesn't have one vote on her.

- Agrees with Adel-N
Agrees with NUm-N
Finds it weird why more people have added Kate in scum list, but no votes on her-N

Post 462

AND for the reread that will come!

Numenorean7,
Adel
Crub
MoS

Not surprised by this vote though, MoS thinks more info will come by my hanging than Dylan's..which I tend to agree, which is why I am posting the vote count, it will be easy for the town later. My hanging will result in a lot of suspicion on Numenorean7, Adel(who really pushed for it), and the hammer. This is how I think the votes will go down from here…I will get the HungryJoe vote once he logs back in and once Admiral sees the town is in to the bandwagon he will do his trademark not much content vote…who will be the 3rd? My guess is mole or Kate (both would have reason to vote). Of course I would not be surprised if the VI did me in...that my friends WOULD be irony. That leaves NabNab and Pick. Now Pick has been in and out since MoS turned the pressure on him, and he is the only one who (as of late) hasn’t jumped on my bandwagon or FoSed me and I already have NabNab’s FoS. So it really doesn’t look good for me. I am confident Hungryjoe and Admiral votes will come shortly…so who will be the hammer?

Interesting thought to ponder, for a guy (who is on the chopping block for being mafia) I sure have a ton of people as enemies and little support.

At any rate, give me till Sunday (it will be time consuming) to get my Crub is SCUM post in…and since I cant post after I am dead, I want to get all my finger pointing in now.

Why waste time second guessing what people are going to do and pre-gloating over how wrong everyone is when you could have spent the time on this supposed sunday post of yours.
This sort of behaviour doesn't help, it only makes you look more flustered, pressured and afraid of being lynched. It also seems as if you are just trying to create this "post" out of nothing and are trying to buy time.
For your information I wasn't planning to vote for you but your smug comment "I am confident Hungryjoe and Admiral votes will come shortly" makes me want to more than ever.

- Doesn't like how CKD is wasting time on crap-T
Wants to vote CKD after smug comment-N


Post 542

ThAdmiral

I have been saying that ThAdmiral is pro-town, but I'm starting to wonder, particularly because of the early no-lynch wagon:

carrotcake random-votes no-lynch (36)
tromboner agrees, votes no-lynch (39)
kate agrees, unvotes (40)
ThAdmiral agrees, votes no-lynch (47)

Just for this,

FoS ThAdmiral

. No-lynch is a bad idea, and putting on the 3rd vote is really suspicious. I've already mentioned this in conjunction with carrotcake/N-N, tromboner/ckd, and Kate, but ThAdmiral is perhaps the most culpable. I'd like an explanation of post 47. I've previously mentioned his lack of content. He often says over again what has already been said. He posts infrequently, and never says much when he does. I believe he may be lurking in plain sight. I'm keeping a closer eye on ThAdmiral from now on.

Ha! I can see how you got confused but I actually voted: NOT no lynch (go have another look). I probably should have made that a bit more clear.

Saying that Mike is scum with Vinny isn't at all the same thing as saying that there are two and only two scum. ckd's theory never left out the possibility of there being a forth- I was watching for it. Your statement that there are 3 scum seems to infer that somehow you

know

that there are exactly three scum.

It is definitely a scumtell.

I disagree. He was referencing ckd's three scum, and also for a game of this size it's normal to expect a scum group of three people. I think 4 would make it a bit ridiculous for the mafia (mislynch day one and it's lylo), and 2 would make it ridiculously hard.

ThAdmiral: You are still convinced about dylan, right? Please make your case if you really are convinced.

I'll put together my case and get back to you.
To summarize it's basically his lurking and bandwagon jumping, but I'll do a post-by-post.

- Says to Num he voted not no lynch-N
Says saying how many scum there are isn't a scumtell-N
Speculation on how many scum there might be-N



Post 566

@Nab-Nab: I don't think the case on HJ is very strong. I personally can understand his progression of suspicion against dylan quite easily.
I think it's good that you're looking at all the players though.

@Everybody: PBP of Dylan.

unvote: carrotcake

vote: J-man

for seeming over-zealous to get to night time (maybe so he can kill me?)

Perhaps his finest hour: a vote with a reason. Although the end bit just isn't necessary.

joining a bandwagon vote may seem suspicious, but it's too obvious! I'm not that dumb.

WIFOM

unvote

No explanation. This just came after a few other people had left the j-man wagon.

vote J-man

again

Once again no explanation (this will become the norm for Dylan). What's even more strange is that j-man

hadn't even said anything

between his previous unvote and this revote. He just up and changed his mind.

Mod:

does J-man have 2 or 3 votes?

I don't really know why he asked this. Anyway he could have just checked for himself.

it is kind of suspicious that Mastermind of Sin confidently states that "J-man is not scum." Are they working together?

Mastermind - can you explain why he isn't scum?

He's feeling a bit of heat here. Perhaps this is a bit of deflection, added to a bit of, "hey lets go back to the previous bandwagon".

Adel, I don't know what I just said that made you vote for me. you know this is one of my first games

Using the old newbie defence. Sorry, but first-time players can still be mafia.
Also it seems as though he's played in a number of games anyway. Enough to know what's expected behaviour at the very least.

I've already accepted that I'm going to be lynched. I'm innocent though.
Do me a favor and kill off Adel, Kate, molestargazer. They're scum.

No explanation behind his suspicions, as always.

unvote: J-man
Vote: Mastermind of Sin

not that it matters.

I think Mastermind is more scummy than Kate[/b]

Well why didn't you mention him in your previous "these people are scum post". You're not very helpful are you.

wow Adel! maybe you do have some townie goodness in your heart!

Here he's saying adel is town because she unvoted him. Flattery coupled with bad logic = scummy.

You know, I would almost rather be lynched and watch all the mafia who voted for me squirm and the townspeople feel guilty as you find out that I'm innocent. However, my life is more important to me.

Everyone says I'm a horrible player and they hate the way I play. Ok, that's fine. That makes sense. I like to lurk and watch your posts.

But you're all suspicious of me because I haven't said much and only wrote ten words when I did speak. That isn't fine. I don't think you can justify any type of theory that lurking makes me scummy. Lurking is one of my favorite pastimes and if you want to hate on me for that, then that's not very nice.

You all say "EXPLAIN YOURSELF, DYLAN. WE WANT TO HEAR YOUR EVIDENCE."

I say...No. All I have to explain is that I didn't have much to say. And I want to hear YOUR evidence. Real evidence against me. Ironically, the only people who know that I am innocent are the mafia, because they know I'm not on their side. And they are the people putting ideas in your brains. They're brainwashing you to make me seem scummier than I am!

I really feel like many of the attacks on me are crazy.

For example... molestargazer says "

Appealing to emotion. Just because you're a new player doesn't mean you're not scum

" and then goes on to say "

I really don't like the way you're playing. You seem panicky under pressure, and that's understandable - but I want to get some firm evidence and something solid to discuss

."

This is such a flimsy argument!

Please let me know what else makes me sound scummy and I'll tell you my reasoning.

I feel that if j-man hadn't gotten away with his "defence" dylan wouldn't have tried to pull this stunt. Fortunately what worked once worked again for him. I've got more to say about this but I'll leave it to my conclusion section.

omg i love your visuals, Adel!

For once we actually agree on something.

Hey all: I'm actually in the same boat as NabakovNabakov, except I'm not sure exactly how much I'll be able to post. Don't vote me out while I'm gone! haha

That haha at the end just makes me see red. "I'm not going to be here so you can't vote me, suckers!" is what I read that as.

I'm not back yet, but I got the chance to post. Once I'm dead and you all discover that I'm innocent...please lynch Kate, molestargazer, and MasterMind of Sin.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. Although I doubt you'll do it since you aren't listening now.

Reiterating his list-o-scum. Gives us the old "the whole world is against me, and no-one even cares" routine with the last line. So, sympathy garnering again.

Kate, I don't feel like defending myself because it's just no use. Stop asking me to explain myself! I have nothing else to say. You all think I'm scum because it's the easy way out. And because I was lurking?

GOOD BYE KATE.
it looks like you won this battle...although I really do want to stay in the game.

He asked in his previous posts for people to ask him questions so he could defend himself against them, and in this post decides not to. Once again, what a prime example of helpful townsmanship!

you're making me crazy pickemgenius! i am not anti-town and do not have anti-town behavior (for real, at least) so stop saying that to everyone. And thanks for lying when you said you were going to give me until July 1... was that the first time you lied in this game???????

Pickem repsonds with something like: "Well you lied first, because you said you were going to get back on july 1st and you came back sooner. When you did you became fair game." And dylan...

ok, well nevermind my comment about lying then. i don't think you're scum.

...accepts.

hey all -
I'm back! I'm also sorry if I have offended anyone as much as J-man.

Well sorry implies that you might be willing to change to rectify the situation.

unvote
vote: curiouskarmadog

However this obviously isn't the case as he just goes back to what he does best by voting the biggest bandwagon, without providing a reason.

In conclusion Dylan has exhibited scummy behavior in a number of ways, most damning of these is his propensity to lurk, not provide reasons for his votes, vote for the largest bandwagon, and finally refuse to defend himself when questioned.
He says himself that he lurks all the time and that it cannot be used as an argument against him. Fair enough, but as a result of his lurking we only have a limited amount of material to work with when reviewing his actions, and even still nearly

all

of it is questionable.
Finally even if he is a townie I think he is probably better off dead anyway. His tendency to just pile his vote on a growing wagon means the mafia need fewer votes to lynch someone, as they know they can probably rely on dylan to help them out.

If dylan wants me to unvote him he must provide

satisfactory

reasons for each and every vote and unvote that he has placed throughout the game.

- Looking back at my first post detailing dylan's post (before I read other games he's in) this looks alot familiar to it-A/N
Doesn't think case on HJ is strong-N
Says it's better if he is dead if he is a townie anyway-A
Wants dylan to expalin his actions(but then again... who doesn't)-N/T

[pickemgenius]

@MOS- An Adel/Num combo, also how do you you know there are three scum [/irony]

Looking back to see if it's possible.

After looking at both of their posts individually to see possible interactions between them, I would find it not likely that they are both scum, or atleast there are no solid connections I could find.

*If* I had to say out of the two who is *more likely* scum, I would say Num.


@Wag list suspicions, in which I will break down the posts listed and explain from my point of view what I saw in them.

This is why I believe they are scum. A smart scum does not want to connect themselves to each other, and they avoid it very carefully.

That's possible, I found scum like that as a cop in another current ongoing game, but I would say until we find out the alignment of anybody it's a little tough to determine confidentaly what interactions/lack of mean.

[pickemgenius]

I just want to mention a few things that I don't think have been mentioned yet.

If I die because I was being useful to the town, all the better. That merely proves that my methods were effective, and the scum felt threatened by me

- Not neccessarily, scum kills are totally WIFOM, and they can be used to try and further manipulate the town in to mislynching even more.
That you should know.


--Also, does this Cassandra Award almost sound like an appeal to emotion?

my vote for pickem was an example of me following MoS's lead. I gave him the benifit of the doubt, and I was prepared to unvote if he came to lynch -1 without me being convinced.

- So you're saying it was basically a pressure vote?

[pickemgenius]

I'll vote once I figure out why some people still think dylan is a smart play.

[pickemgenius]

dylan41985: 3 (ThAdmiral, HungryJoe, Numenorean7)
Mastermind of Sin: 3 (dylan41985, Adel, Crub)
Adel: 2 (Mastermind of Sin, curiouskarmadog)

Not voting: 3 (pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov, molestargazer,Kate)

That looks right.

[pickemgenius]

/me still isn't understanding the logic of those voting dylan.... If any of them would like to explain, that'd be cool.

Until then I might as well vote somebody who i'm unsure about from that list.

Vote: HungryJoe

[pickemgenius]

You don't understand the logic behind a dylan vote?
Weren't you the one that wrote a long list dissecting dylan's posts showing examples of why you thought he was scum.
Perhaps you should explain why you think those examples no longer apply.

I've read to many games with dylan being town and getting lynched day 1.

[pickemgenius]

Guess I will

Unvote:

For now.

[pickemgenius]

Hell yes! Take that you stupid deadline. This thread is rolling right on to page 30 of D1. Per, can we go deadlineless for as long as possible? I want to set a record.

Will finish re-read tonight, promise.

Let's beat Mafia 64! It had a 57 page Day 1 with 20 players, and we only have 12, which would make us more awesome!

QFT!!

[pickemgenius]

NEUTRAL:

Pickem: Solid if brief analysis, general non-participation in the major bandwagons. If he's scum, he's not dangerous scum.

pickemgenius: Terse, but pretty solid. Little to say, but doesn't need to say that much. kind of a low post count, and not too many words, but he does pop in now and again. I'm completely neutral here, but it's hard to say with so little of his arguments in evidence.

Yeah, sounds like me...

[pickemgenius]

Thoughts on MOS BW:

Still getting mostly townish vibes from him, but

I'll

have to isolate posts, and look at them in greater detail, and come up with a more solid opinion, and look over teh game to get a better

personal

opinion.


Waiting for MOS/TAR

[pickemgenius]

OMFG I join mini games to avoid MeMe.

Oh and hi and stuff.

[pickemgenius]

Oh hai Tar! Care to join much?

[pickemgenius]

hmmm. yes. it would make sense that kate and molestargazer wouldn't vote to lynch Mastermind of Sin.

Is that some sort of implication that you think Kate,Molestargazer, and MOS are scum?


If so, please elaborate.

[pickemgenius]

He just ticks a few scummy boxes for me:
- Doesn't post very often, so stays under radar
- Hasn't mounted a strong case against anyone (he did pbp's of dylan and ckd I think, but then didn't end up voting for them), so hasn't really put his opinion out there to be criticized as much as other people
- MoS's case of pushing bandwagons while not getting on them
- As I made mention before is one of a few possible scumbuddies with dylan
And finally...
- I've got a gut feeling

1. Playstyle. I post more then you.
2. I voted for dylan, put him at L-1.
3. I knew CKD was capable of good posting that's why I didn't hammer.
I really didn't want to end the day on page 8 with the J-man BW.
I voted for dylan.
4. I'm still really interested to hear why people think i'm somehow intertwined with dylan, second time someone said this (Adel)
5. Meh.

[pickemgenius]

Prod: Molestargazer

KICK IN THE BUTT: dylan

[pickemgenius]

pleeeease can we make a decision

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease can you post something good.

[pickemgenius]

That's what I thought when I first saw her post, but I think what she's saying makes sense. Let me paraphrase:

"Suppose my playstyle was different as scum than as town. In that case, another player could look at a game where I was pro-town (like this one), see that my playstyle here is different from my playstyle in another game (like 399), and conclude I am scum in that game."

I think it was just awkward wording, not a slip-up.

Weird....

Looks like a slip-up.

Trying to figure out what you gained by defending Kate....

FOS: KATE
FOS: NUM7

Has there been a serious push on kate ever? I can't seem to remember one if there had been (and I can't really be bothered checking through the whole thread).

No.

[pickemgenius]

If you guys want to lynch me because I don't play differently when I'm scum (like scum should do) that's about the dumbest reason I've ever heard. Just because I was scum in one game, doesn't mean I'm scum in another.

Huh????

[pickemgenius]

I meant that my vote is static, it isn't going anywhere...

but there is a possibility that you end up claiming for some reason, and if you did I would unvote you.

That is the only scenario where i would unvote you, so I felt it was worth mentioning.

Vanilla townie.

now what?

I don't like this post.


If that is a claim... then wow...

Ummm... I think it's sarcasm... maybe???

I can't put to words what my brain is saying right now .

I'll just say that post was weird, and leave it at that for now.

If I can type what my brain is thinking then I'll type it up later.

[pickemgenius]

she asked me to claim or she will will not remove the vote...I claimed, the vote is still there

I don't like your claiming... it was absolutely 100% uneccessary imo.

Also iirc she never ASKED you to claim...

It sits uneasy with me because it looks like you're flustered, or afraid of something.

[pickemgenius]

Limited Access next 3 days because Czech Festival

[pickemgenius]

whoo Czech Festival! Where are you from, pickem?

Wilber Nebraska


CZECH CAPITAL OF THE USA!!!

[pickemgenius]

ehhh perhaps. South Dakota has a pretty good Czech population. That's where half my family is from (*is 25% Czech*).

No it is..


google that shit up..

[pickemgenius]

I meant that my vote is static, it isn't going anywhere... but there is a possibility that you end up claiming for some reason, and if you did I would unvote you. That is the only scenario where i would unvote you, so I felt it was worth mentioning.

If interperted a certain way, this post is Adel holding the possibility of an unvote above CKD's head. All he need do is claim. Whether it was malicious or not, Adel engineered a pressure claim on a player with 2 votes.

I interpreted it differently...

*shrug*

To each his own... lots of ways to see that...

[pickemgenius]

It might be high time for a PBPA on Kate, I don't know as if she's ever had one. If scumminess can be proved entirely by quoting

this

thread, she just might merit a vote.

I was planning on doing something similiar hopefully but due to limited access, not so sure...

I want to atleast (for myself) look over Kate again since I haven't gotten much from her all game.

Also she was in my original Wag list...

I will also (for myself) look at Adel & CKD.

[pickemgenius]

and which Wag list was this?

Like this one:

Wag o' the finger:
Kate(lots of no reads, barely on this list)
Crub(Capable, but J-man was a awkward predecessor)
ThAdmiral(lots of no reads, should be doing more)
HJ(lurkitude+sudden change of heart @ dylan)

[pickemgenius]

I've been coming around on the idea of ckd as scum. I may not pursue him today but I will say this: if adel gets lynched and is town I will go after him. I don't care if that is setting up "chain-lynches", I'm going to do it anyway.

Since I have some free time finally, i'll comment on this.

If Adel comes up town, then why would you be going after CKD?

What makes Adel scummy (in your mind.) You can give me posts of yours if you've done this, I just want to know.

What makes CKD scummy (in your mind.) Again, you can give me posts of yours if you've done this, I just want to know.

[pickemgenius]

I want to ask everyone a question...

Does anybody else realize that in alot of CKD's posts he says "I am town", or something similiar just straight up declaring that he is town?


I'm not a fan of people declaring themselves own in alot of their posts.



I just want to see what everyone else thinks about it.


On a sidenote one of these four people

will

be receiving my vote before deadline:

CKD
Kate
Adel
ThAdmirial

I want to look them over again (when I have more time) before I vote.

[pickemgenius]

This is what I get from CKD/Adel:

I'm town,I'm town,I'm town,I'm town

I have no confidence in my ability to find scum.

Still quite unsure which of the two I feel is scummier ATM.

I want to look over you two (in isolation) and will vote who I feel is more likely scum.



*on a sidenote*

I liked ThAdmiral's response to my post, it wasn't that bad.

[pickemgenius]

ckd, I know your alignment in an ongoing game (which is why i can't reference it), and I believe you are town from how you are acting here.

Really?


I know that game also.

I would almost disagree.

*begin individual breakdown of posts*

[pickemgenius]

Strike count- (post #'s are individual post subject numbers, how I see it)

Tromboner/CKD

=1(Post 1), 2(Post 4),3(99.99% of replacements are townies), 4/5(case on Kate based on defending J-man), 6(sticks with bad logic about replacements in 11), 7(replacements not on radar in 12), 8/9 (overdefensiveness), 10(Post 21), 11/12(26,29,30), 13(77), 14(86,This also includes Num7),1 5 1/2(99,100), 16(102,she asked me to claim part is bullshit, i've already said this though), 17-20 (The I'm town BS, town members don't need to go on and on saying they are town, actions>words)

Adel

=1(40,41), 2(kind of likes not defending self), 3-5(following MOS basically all game, then going after him), 6.5(82,says would pick apart CKD, then doesn't), 7.5(102/103), 9(attribues unhumanly powers to MOS), 10(112), 11(129), 12/13(appeal to emotion, throw out vote, bad at finding scum), 14(no lynch vote)


So after reading each posts in isolation, CKD is scummier then Adel.

Vote: CKD

[pickemgenius]

EBWOP: seems like Admiral, and Num7 posted while I was reading their posts in isolation, and both voted CKD during that time.

[pickemgenius]

In Hawaii or the next 10 days, literally just about to be heading out.

Thought I'd be nice and let you know just in case you didn't see my sig.

[pickemgenius]

. I think Num and Pickem should probably be looked at with the most scrutiny (especially as Num is now trying desperately to lurker hunt rather than use the info at hand)

FOS: Numenorean7, Pickemgenius

While I have a few minutes (and internet for that matter) I started looking at both Adel's and CKD's posts at about 12:45 a.m. (my time CST), I looked over both of them taking mental notes(and started packing, this trip was seriously last minute.), then looked over them again and started typing down stuff. In all my post was made at about 2:23 a.m. CST. I didn't preview my post to see if any new posts were made.

[pickemgenius]

@Pickem: Excuses, excuses, excuses. I don't like the mathematical aspect of the post in which you voted for him (CKD scumtells > Adel scumtells, therefore CKD=Scum), it seemed like you were trying to hide behind it.

I'm sorry I learned 10 hours before the plane left that I'd be going to Hawaii.

I'm also sorry I think more scumtells=more likely to be scum...

[pickemgenius]

Okay, I have some metagaming evidence that Adel and Pickem are scum together....first, there was that one time when pickem jumped in the middle of one of our games to defend Adel. That doesn't make sense for him to watch Adel's game unless they are tied, right ? And I lynched Adel in the other game pickem was in, so this is definitely the game they are mafia together.

I seriously feel like ignoring everything you are saying.

I was reading that game because I liked the player list, and I like to read games with good players in it.

I defended Adel in 415 (which is presumably the game you are talking about)l... well actually I didn't.. I told you to relax... Then you told me to change my lifestyle...


Also I would love to post more... Free Public Wifi isn't connecting for shit out here even though it says full strength...

[pickemgenius]

Omg he is back before the 20th. LAL.

bonus points for the sarcasm.


I wish I were back. I also hope I can post more in early tomorrow (well afternoonish for most people i'm 5 hours behind Central time), but not sure about the internet situation, I can only hope.

[pickemgenius]

other players would all have equally slim odds of being SKs. At least dylan being an SK would make his behavior make more sense to me. dylan is like an annoying and complex little puzzle, that only looks hard until someone shows you how to solve it. I don't know if we will solve it, but I suspect that there is a correct solution to the dylan problem.

But we saw dylan's games, he always plays like this, right? I don't want dylan to be in the game near the end if he is mafia, but if he's town, I don't want to lynch another townie.

@Kate- Ummm.... like... that totally said nothing basically.


*My awesome disclaimer going in like all of my games*
Hi this game along with a few others will need to be reread piece by piece over the next few days, should be full done by weekend, or end of weekend.

[pickemgenius]

other players would all have equally slim odds of being SKs. At least dylan being an SK would make his behavior make more sense to me. dylan is like an annoying and complex little puzzle, that only looks hard until someone shows you how to solve it. I don't know if we will solve it, but I suspect that there is a correct solution to the dylan problem.

But we saw dylan's games, he always plays like this, right? I don't want dylan to be in the game near the end if he is mafia, but if he's town, I don't want to lynch another townie.

@Kate- Ummm.... like... that totally said nothing basically.

What I meant, was dylan isn't "more likely" to be an SK because of his behavior, because this is how he always plays.

Hmmm....


that makes slightly more sense.

[pickemgenius]

Lots of Regurgitation start of a reread!

Up to page 7 (not including)

Vote: NoLynch

-already been gone over.

Vote: no lynch

We have no info to go on

-also has been.

A general question for the rest of you: where do you stand on the "lynch the lurkers" tactic?

NO.

adel that i agree with entirely which is why I Lynch all Lurkers

-just a note.

However since J-man has no bandwagon forming that could overtake my rather large bandwagon and not getting killed is my strategy.

Unvote
Vote: Molestargazer

-again... still looks weird.

joining a bandwagon vote may seem suspicious, but it's too obvious! I'm not that dumb.

-heh

Woah, this game is moving fast, but I think I'll keep my vote on dylan for now. I didn't realize we'd be on page 5 by now.

-ummm, ok....

now i was really tempted to claim cop/doc just to make you guys squirm

-still kinda iffy on this.

[pickemgenius]

oh yeah

MOD: SRSLY PROD TARHALINDUR

[pickemgenius]

Up to 15.

I don't know if I believe him, he's either scum, or an innocent townie.

Well, that narrows it down..

Ya rly...

What do you make of Kate at this point?

I find the interaction between Kate and pickemgenuis interesting.

Kate: I would like to see you ask pickemgenuis more questions. What would be so obvious about an Adel&pickemgenuis scumpair?

ummm.... you asked me to share my thoughts on Kate, I did. Kate responded... interesting...

i
and not to ignore the dylan fiasco :S wth are you on... your not this inactive in other games... so why this one he definatly lurking why? idk im pretty sure ive got my scum pinned down but this is making me rethink everything. so yea Dylan

IGMEOY

I just want to remember this for personal reasons.

-Small bits of ADel following MOS- Scum pairing up with town?

curiouskarmadog: you really nailed her. Her next reply should be interesting.

response to CKD's (semi weak) attack on Kate.

I agree that Dylan should be lynched for his blatent lurking, Dylan if im not wrong has 4 votes on him atm

Unvote, Vote:Dylan

lets make that 5

what? still...

[pickemgenius]

omg hai MOS!!!

[pickemgenius]

Yeah, I'd like to hear what MoS has to say too, and I also want to hear what Tar has to say about that vote on Adel...man this game is slow....

Bingo.

I was specifically checking for Kate's reaction to my unexplained vote. Given Kate's response, I now believe that at least one of {Kate, Adel} is town.

ThAdmiral, by way of contrast, just shot up on my scumdar (again). If Adel is scum I'll want to take a closer look at him (and, to a lesser extent, vice versa).

Unvote

for now.

FoS: ThAdmiral

This makes me go "huh"......

[pickemgenius]

In Newb 399 (where Kate was scum), a player (inHim, to be specific) voted for Kate's partner (Falcone) with no reasoning. Kate reacted by attacking inHim, mainly on the basis of his unexplained Falcone vote. I fired a vote at Adel (who I had considered Kate's most likely partner if Kate were scum) to see if Kate would do the same here.

When I voted for Adel, Kate asked for explanation instead of attacking me. Given this less vehement reaction, I believe that Kate and Adel are not likely to be scumbuddies (unless Kate realized what I was doing, a possibility I am setting aside for now).

I read the first paragraph went "ok.....but"

Then I read the second paragraph and went "Ok... thats makes sense moreso then it did."

[pickemgenius]

I'm going to have to hold my analysis until this weekend. If I don't have homework to do (probably I will :/), I'll do it. Just look at Adel's posts at the beginning of D2. It's pretty obvious that she was scum. She was the one who thought MoS was the cop, she was the one who killed MoS, who was not acting like a cop at all.

*looks at Adel's posts at start of Day 2*

hmmm....

They don't come across well with me...

Adel had buddied up with MOS Day 1...gave him godlike powers...

Started to go after MOS basically after MOS said he was suspicious of Adel...

Adel then halts off the MOS wagon for some reason...I wonder why...

Vote: ADEL

[pickemgenius]

If I were scum than MoS and Tar would be my nephew and cousin.

That was me not claiming, by the way.

ummmm.....

wtf....

[pickemgenius]

I'm a little confused/worried about Tar's reaction to Adel's "not claim."

That is all.

[pickemgenius]

unvote:

I echo Crubs grr

[pickemgenius]

Why isn't everyone on the Tar wagon? Did no one else see the self-destruct when Adel "didn't claim"?

I saw that but im not gung-ho gonna vote him quite yet.

i'd actually like to hear from him about that.

[pickemgenius]

In a big book

chalk

Chock

full of black marks.

I don't think that Tar's over-reaction condemns him as scum. He had already been burned once by this type of gambit. I got the impression that his objection was more on principle ("It's absolutely unacceptable either way") than in response to a personal threat. In fact, I think it's a pretty blatant misrepresentation to call what he did "self destructing," and I would not be surprised if that's just Crub-scum trying to keep the town off of Num-scum.

I'd still like to hear Tar's explanation.

[pickemgenius]

Actually, that's the opposite of what happened, until they were exposed. MoS first had suspicion of Num7 and noticed that Num7 and Adel were completely ignoring each other, failing to comment on anything of significance about each other and never addressing the other except in passing. This then prompted MoS to look further into Adel's behavior, showing her to be scum. He seems to have felt that Adel was the most likely scum of the two, and now that his conclusion has been proven correct, the natural progression is the lynch the other part of that scumpair.

The two of them made a concerted effort to cast suspicion on our cop D1 after he exposed them as scum

, while also casting around for other easy targets to lynch, such as CKD.

I suggest we follow the intuition of our dead cop, who already nailed one scum for us

.

I'm almost down for the Num lynch but!

ITALICS.

I thought you didn't know you were a cop. How the hell would they?
The last line you give yourself godlike powers. All game Adel gave you godlike powers, and you denied them. Now you're practically giving them to yourself.

I don't think I need to tell anyone that I didn't think he was cop, either.

Why would MoS-Cop who thought Adel was scum for the latter half of D1 *not* investigate Adel-scum to confirm her guilt?

MoS-Cop didn't get any investigation results.
MoS-Cop didn't know he was a cop.
MoS isn't MoS-Cop right now. We don't know what MoS is.

This could very well be MoS' attempt at possible bussing.

*hasn't played with MoS*

That post just kinda seemed to cocky/arrogant/ABRlike for me to not comment on it.

[pickemgenius]

Last night I protected myself, since per didn't say that in the rules or anything, I got to protect myself for one night (last night). I don't see harm in listing possibilities, but since I'm posting everything, it is pretty pointless

well then that's nifty.

[pickemgenius]

ABR: Almost certainly town,

as I know that ABR is telling the truth about asking ryan about Adel's play as scum (I was privy to the conversation in question).

huh?

[pickemgenius]

ABR: Almost certainly town,

as I know that ABR is telling the truth about asking ryan about Adel's play as scum (I was privy to the conversation in question).

huh?

I know for a fact that ABR was telling the truth when he claimed that he asked ryan about how Adel plays as scum (without mentioning this game, IIRC), as this occured in another game that I played with ABR (Open 27, which is now completed).

For further information, look here. (I seriously hope that ABR doesn't get modkilled for this.)

Umm ok....

[pickemgenius]

Let's finish this.

Vote: Crub

this post smells funny.

[pickemgenius]

Bah!

You think your life sucks ? Your problems aren't so bad.

I'm kinda pretty...and pretty damn smart
I like romantic things like music and art
And as you know I have a gigantic heart
So whyyy, don't I have a boyfriend ?

FUCK! It sux to be meee

what?

I currently think Tar edged his way to the likely third scum. That early vote on Crub is a little to opprtunistic for my liking.

[pickemgenius]

Also what I want to know is why is Kate still alive if she's the doctor who only had one self-protect?

I'm not a prticular fan of this statement.

[pickemgenius]

I'm not trying to get you lynched ... If I was trying to get you lynched I'd at least vote you.

Let's look at the scenario where I'm scum with Adel and Num.
Do you think that I would defend them both, and vote with them like I did if I was scum? Yes I accept that I've played badly, I've learnt a lot from this game. Yes I don't mind being culled for numbers advantage, But don't try and make it sound like I'm the most likely scum today. Let's at least have some discussion first before we make a decision.

I think the fact that you've caught 2 scum in 2 days, should mean that you're not scum

, which is what I was referring to in the quote above. But I don't think that means that we should give you a 100% pass.

If I get lynched today don't forget how Tar tried to shift suspicion from Num onto me yesterday, also don't forget Tar's early vote of me today.

Too WIFOMY for my liking.

@Bold- did you just claim MOS was town, when you just said like you would be down for a MOS lynch?


the only thing halfway decent is your Tar point.

[pickemgenius]

I'm pretty torn between Tar & Crub atm.

I'm still leading towards Tar by a sliver, but Crub as of late has been kinda meh.

[pickemgenius]

mos there are a few things wrong about your last "points."


1.

This reminds me of Himalayan mafia, where I helped lynch scum D1 and D2.

Mos... last time I tried to reference something like this (this was the J-Man thing, where i refernced a newbie doing something similiar.) you harped on my ass. Deemed it very weak evidence. And basically called me scum because of it. So this is very hypocritical of you.

2.

One more thing. I think the reason the scum tried to off me last night instead of Kate

What indication were you given the scum tried to kill you off last night? Last time I checked NabNab got NK'ed, i'm not sure how they targetted you, but killed NabNab, but that seriously makes no sense.


3.

The scum really seem to want me dead, but they already failed at killing me once.

I'm not quite sure... but this doesn't read right to me.

4.

She took a fence position that allowed her to hop off and on his wagon as she pleased, which I believe she did.

Adel iirc basically took fence positions on everybody.

5. Case on me?

[pickemgenius]

pockem makes no logical sense.

Unvote, vote pickem

are you even reading the fucking game?

The last two MOS posts in which he votes for me, don't make any fucking sense (even by his previously shown standards)

[pickemgenius]

(shrug)

Its fun to vote for pockem

OMGUS voting me in a different game.... that's new for you.

[pickemgenius]

Now I have a case against pickem. *nods*

your case on me is that i've rarely voted?


that's a powerhouse of a case.

[pickemgenius]

Now I have a case against pickem. *nods*

your case on me is that i've rarely voted?


that's a powerhouse of a case.

You still have yet to explain why you didn't vote Adel OR Num7,

both of which were pretty obviously scum

.

you see that's the difference between you and me. (see:bold)

I'm not nearly as confident in things as you are. I wasn't sure Adel, or Num were

OBVIOUSLY

scum.

[pickemgenius]

Now I have a case against pickem. *nods*

your case on me is that i've rarely voted?


that's a powerhouse of a case.

You still have yet to explain why you didn't vote Adel OR Num7,

both of which were pretty obviously scum

.

you see that's the difference between you and me. (see:bold)

I'm not nearly as confident in things as you are. I wasn't sure Adel, or Num were

OBVIOUSLY

scum.

Then why did you vote Adel ?

She was my best bet at that moment.


Then she claimed doctor and my mind went into a clusterfuck.

[pickemgenius]

Now I have a case against pickem. *nods*

your case on me is that i've rarely voted?


that's a powerhouse of a case.

You still have yet to explain why you didn't vote Adel OR Num7,

both of which were pretty obviously scum

.

you see that's the difference between you and me. (see:bold)

I'm not nearly as confident in things as you are. I wasn't sure Adel, or Num were

OBVIOUSLY

scum.

The evidence was pretty cut and dried.

To who exactly? It sure as shit wasn't to me.

[pickemgenius]

Then she claimed doctor and my mind went into a clusterfuck.

Wait....what!? You actually believed Adel's claim for longer than it took you to click reply and type "Confirm vote: Adel"????????? That is a ridiculous assertion.

Have you seen Adel's doc play before?

Seriously, she does some very fucked up things as doctor.

[pickemgenius]

I didn't need experience with them to find them out.

This is exactly

MY

point.

YOU

have

NEVER

played/seen Adel's doc play before.

I

have. So from

MY

point of view, it was

POSSIBLE

Adel was the doctor.

[pickemgenius]

What ABR said.

[pickemgenius]

Pickem why aren't you voting Crub ?

i'm torn between him and tar.

[pickemgenius]

Vote Crub k ? Or at least demonstrate that you are making an ongoing effort to find which is which. I'm finding time long.

I'd like to hear from Tar again personally.

[pickemgenius]

...why

Hey ABR remember Day 2 (or was it 3) when you were sure I was town and you were 100% sure that Peg was scum?

Ok I re-read again

unvote; vote Peg

crub... how is this even a little bit bad about

ME

?

what you said

I

did nothing about.

[pickemgenius]

Pickem, what do you think about ThAdmiral and Kate?

Kate- I'm pretty confident in her being doc.

ThAdmiral- He's basically been doing almost the same thing I have been all game, with exception to his vote on Num (which can be seen from multiple viewpoints) he was very vocal about a dylan lynch early, and had his vote on dylan for the longest of time.

[pickemgenius]

Crub your last ditch effort to try and lynch me, has failed scum.
Everything at that post was about ABR and NONE of it could even be construed as any sort of evidence against me.
That vote just reeked badly to me, and way too opportunistic, and scummy in my opinion.

Vote: Crub

[pickemgenius]

Tar... what do expect claim wise honestly...

I

know

I'm town. I

KNOW

that Crub used

NO

logic and presented

NOTHING

against me when he voted for me.


think about that...

[pickemgenius]

Ok then... if Crub somehow comes up as town, this little charade by Tar by trying to set up another mislynch for the next day is very disturbing...

[pickemgenius]

Ok then... if Crub somehow comes up as town, this little charade by Tar by trying to set up another mislynch for the next day is very disturbing...

As opposed to what your saying in this post?

No... actually read Tar's post, and read my post.

NOWHERE

do I suggest lynching him. I just said that he's already trying to setup another possible mislynch.

[pickemgenius]

I'm pretty certain that we won guys and gals.

Wait, was pickem's vote the hammer.

If we don't win today,

he dies tomorrow. I don't care what his claim is

.

Ok then... if Crub somehow comes up as town,

this little charade by Tar by trying to set up another mislynch for the next day is

very disturbing

...

No... actually read Tar's post, and read my post.

NOWHERE

do I suggest lynching him. I just said that he's already trying to setup another possible mislynch.

Oh I forgot casting suspicion on someone "if the person you just hammered turns out to be town" in no way imply's that you want them lynched.

Read again plz kthx.

I'm noting

very

suspicious behavior by Tar.

[pickemgenius]

Vote: Pickemgenius

ThAdmiral supported a lynch back then when it was unpopular to vote Adel so I trust him more. MoS did a lot of scum-hunting and kate counter-claimed. This leaves me with Pickem.

Ummm ABR.... look at ThAdmirals posts again... most of the time he was in agreement with

BOTH

Adel,

AND

Num.

[pickemgenius]

The only thing that makes me want to pause is why pickem would have gone after tar when mos or abr were more likely town and therefore less likely lynchees.

Although I guess tar did say he was going to definately vote for pick today.

vote: pickem

-1

so lemme get this straight... you have no actual reasoning for voting me...
ABR has no actual reasoning for voting me...

Well...This might explain some things...

CLAIM: TRACKER
N1: NUM-NONE
N2: NUM-NONE
N3: KATE-MOS
N4:TAR-NONE

This is exactly the reason why I

DIDNT

vote for Num.
This is also exactly the reason I tried to lay low most of the game.

IMO it's either ABR, or ThAdmiral. ThAdmiral by a nose at the moment.

[pickemgenius]

vote: ThAdmiral

*expansion on this vote tomorrow*

[pickemgenius]

What's the point in them claiming?

Kate beat me to it.

Also i'm unaware on what new magical information you could bpossibly get from it. I'm a tracker, it basically explains why i've been playing this way.

I have two people voting me, with NO fucking reasoning at all, it's frustrating.


More on ThAdmiral vote later.

Too sum it up, he was in agreement with ADEL and NUM throughout most of the game, and changed his mindset to vote out NUM. He knew if he didn't vote him out he was absolutely fucked, 100% fucked so he did. He had his vote on dylan forever, and was pushing it even when the wagon was dying. He also was the second vote on Crub, another perfectly placed vote on his part as it allows him to just hide in his vote, and blame whoever hammers.

fuck this is annoying.

[pickemgenius]

LOL he's lying. OBVOBV lie. Let's lynch the bastard.

SO YOU BASICALLY JUST ADMITTED YOU HAVE NO FUCKING REASONING FOR VOTING ME BESIDES YOUR OWN MOTHERFUCKING PERSONAL GOAL IN EVERY FUCKING GAME WE'RE IN IS TO KILL ME.

THIS IS FUCKING RIDICULOUS

I HAVE NEVER FUCKING DONE ANYTHING TO YOU EVER

. OH WAIT! I TOLD YOU TO STOP BEING A FUCKTARD AFTER A NEWBIE GAME TO ADEL DOC (451?). WELL HERE'S A FUCKING CLUE ABR, DROP THIS VENDETTA BULLSHIT, USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN (DO YOU HAVE ONE? NOW WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO START FUCKING USING IT) I'M SO FUCKING GLAD THAT THIS WILL BE MY LAST EVER GAME WITH YOU, IN EVERY FUCKING GAME THAT YOU REPLACE INTO THAT I'M IN I'M VOTING YOU, AND ONLY YOU. I WON'T GIVE ANY FUCKING REASONING FOR MY VOTE, AND JUST DO IT BECAUSE I FUCKING FEEL LIKE IT. I'M ALSO GOING TO TRY AND GET OTHER FUCKING PEOPLE TO DO THE SAME.

By the way i'd say process of elimination, i.e. deductive logic, is a very good reason.
Serlock Holmes was well into that shit.

HI WE'RE NOT IN A FUCKING FAIRY TALE. PLEASE STOP BEING RETARDED, YOU'RE NOT SHERLOCK HOLMES. THAT MOTHERFUCKER WOULD REALIZE YOU ARE WRONG AND BITCH SLAP YOU, THEN PROMPTLY VOTE YOUR ASS.

HE WOULD FUCKING REALIZE MY ACTIONS HAVE BEEN WAY MORE THEN EXPLAINED BY MYSELF, AND THAT IT MAKES FUCKING SENSE.

[pickemgenius]

without kate getting a one night self protect (may i add at a very convenient time) this game would have been totally different.

[pickemgenius]

I was trying to get the scum to keep killing me, that's why I said I only had one self-protect, but the scum didn't buy it.

That last post by pickem was definetely uncalled for. It might've made more sense if he were own...oh well.

WAIT...

YOU WERE A SELF PROTECTING DOC WHENEVER YOU WANTED???

AWESOME!

[pickemgenius]

ABR WANTED Th DEAD.

I WOULD GO WITH THAT PLAN.

MOS, TAR, Th WANT ME DEAD

KATE IS I DUNNO WHERE.

NK'ING TAR MEANS (OR I HOPED a 2-2 STANDOFF with me and ThAdmiral)

[pickemgenius]

Why not kill me? You get Tar/Th vs You/ABR, with Kate on the fence and me out of the way. I don't mean to seem arrogant or anything, but I would bet that Kate was more willing to listen to me than Tar.

There's one thing with that problem.

I DIDNT KNOW WE HAD A SELF PROTECTING DOC!

I pretty much just figured you were getting doc protection every night(kate also said she protected you that one night), so why waste a potential kill?