Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Hello. I only recognize a few of you. I'm sure that will soon change.
VOTE: RamblerDon't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Obviously. I'm on a scumiserable streak. I've been rolling scum 80% of the time this year. The real trick will be to find my allies.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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I believe they received pre-game chat -- which means the scum did as well. I don't have a neighbor example, but I've been a mason with pre-game chat before. While it may be uncommon for a neighborhood not to have a scum in it, it does happen. I'm not inclined to lynch either one solely on the basis of being a neighbor.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 87, Wake1 wrote:In post 84, scrambles wrote:vote flubbernugget
He confessed he was scum in another game in a different thread.
Wouldn't that be discussing ongoing games, ergo modkill?
Flubbernugget appears to be alive in approximately 8 games, atm. I don't think anyone would be surprised if he was scum in at least one of them. Now, let's just drop this toxic topic.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 93, Boonskiies wrote:Him bringing up the vigilante constantly to kill someone regardless of alignment is odd to me. Granted, I understand how he could be annoyed by the fact I said I would hammer, but come on man. I said I was a village idiot, I'm just clowning around.
Nope. GreyICE is a serious player. Serious players do not like players who lurk to victory; lurkers earn a lot of disdain from serious players. Welllll, guess what other types of players they don't like? Trolls. The nature of a bboard game takes away our ability to size up one's body language and vocal tone. The only clues we have to use are the other players' written words. Trolls, rpers and masks take away those clues nearly as much as lurkers. Basically, in a serious players' eyes you are either scum or you are a liability to the town. Either way, you should be taken out as soon as possible (preferably by the night game). If everyone adopted your play style, this game would become very chance based (much like epicmafia). That isn't the type of game that most mafiascummers wish to play. This is why GreyICE wants to see your corpse.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 151, TellTaleHeart wrote:The ones of Wake's I linked were two of them. The only other player I directly observed was GreyICE.
You have two completed games with Flubbernugget, do you not?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Erm, well 1 anyway.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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I think someone was interested in my thoughts on BlueBloodedToffee vs TelllTaleHeart.
I'll admit that does look like a response to someone. However, what if we switch the reference around?
Now it lines up with what TellTaleHeart claims to have meant. While it looked odd, I'm not inclined to believe this was more than a bit of bad grammar on TTH's part.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 29, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Very interesting. You knew I suspected you right? That's why you've come out all guns blazing on me. Opening vote? It's RVS, is there a reason you're so paranoid?
I believe TTH slipped to me in the neighbour thread. It looked like she was replying to somebody else with the way she started her message. I think she knows she slipped and is trying to get me out of the way.
Also, my RVS vote is now a serious vote.
BBT clearly cites a reason for his distrust of TTH prior to the game opening. BBT's vote on TTH can not be considered a rvs vote. The characterization of TTH being paranoid is libelous.
In post 32, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:The more I read her message, the more I think it actually might not be a slip.
I still don't understand her coming for me straight away and letting everyone know there is a neighbourhood. That's just anti-town at best and scummy at worst.
BBT backpedals on the slip and pushes a different reason for TTH to be scum. He pushes this reason some more in post 45 as well as restating that his initial vote was rvs.
In post 115, BBT shows the "slip" post by TTH. However, BBT is no longer convinced that this post is scummy. So why bring it up again? Well, he starts bringing up the this was a scum slip argument again. He then waffles back and forth between it being a slip and not being a slip.
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffeeDon't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 131, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Do you guys not see the comma and dependent clause after it?
Negative. These are two independent clauses joined by a coordinating conjunction.
I haven't had any games with him, but I've read a couple games with Wake88 and I've seen his posts around the forum (particularly Mafia Discussion).
I haven't had any games with him. I've read a couple games with Wake88 and I've seen his posts around the forum (particularly Mafia Discussion).Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 351, Csareo wrote:In conclusion, I think there are two possibilities. Here they are ranked one through three.
1. Anatole is scum
2. Anatole is scum with telltaleheart (most likely)
3. Anatole is scum with bluebloodedtoffee (likely)
*frowns* I don't know Anatole Kuragin's meta, but even if I did you would find that I'm not very receptive to meta arguments. Possibilities #2 and #3 require a scum flip of TTHorBBT. You obviously do not feel that all of them are scum together. Therefore, some of your case against Anatole Kuragin is self evidently wrong from the start (coming to defense of TTH & relieving pressure off BBT, both can not be correct). In my opinion, you've failed to make a case on Anatole Kuragin that stands on its own. Why the push on Anatole Kuragin?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 396, Csareo wrote:1. The vote flip on me by BBT is the most shameful scum tells this game. This guy is literally hopping votes for whoever is the greatest threat to him. First it was TTH, then Wake, and now me? How is this piss not scum motivated?
He's more interested in protecting himself than playing for town, and uses the vote button way more care free than I would choose to like.
*still frowning*
Csareo, I'd hardly call you and Wake88 the biggest threats to BlueBloodedToffee. Wake88 has not voted for BBT. Wake88 believes that TellTaleHeart is more likely to be scum than BBT. You were also on the TTH is more likely to be scum than BBT until just now. Your reason for switching from TTH to BBT was that Dougal121, Boonskies and myself had made convincing cases. BBT has not voted any of the three players who have made a case on him.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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UNVOTE:Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 446, Csareo wrote: but what's more alarming is BBT voting everyone who scum reads him, or provides a threat.
Lets go over his voting record then, because I don't see what you are seeing.
In post #8, BBT votes TTH.
(BlueBloodedToffee (0): )
TTH hasn't posted yet. It is possible that BBT is making a pre-emptive strike.
In post #109 BBT votes Anatole Kuragin.
(BlueBloodedToffee (1): TellTaleHeart)
Anatole voted for BBT in post #37 (BlueBloodedToffee (3): TellTaleHeart, GreyICE, Anatole Kuragin). AK explored the possibility that there was scum in the neighborhood. However, he unvoted BBT in post #65. In post #75, AK mentions that he is ok with lynching either TTH or BBT. This is the last thing AK says about BBT before BBT votes AK. AK doesn't appear to be scum reading BBT. AK is simply ok with lynching the neighbors and AK isn't pushing it. AK doesn't appear to be much of a threat, imo.
In post #124 BBT returns his vote to TTH.
(BlueBloodedToffee (2): TellTaleHeart, Dougal121)
TTH hasn't made a post since #62 at this point. You could argue ongoing threat, I suppose. There are only 2 players on BBT though. BBT isn't in serious danger, yet. Everyone is trying to sort the exchange out between the two of them.
In post #155 BBT votes scrambles
(BlueBloodedToffee (2): TellTaleHeart, Dougal121)
scrambles has never mentioned or voted BBT.
In post #261 BBT votes Wake88
(BlueBloodedToffee (4): TellTaleHeart, Dougal121, The Rufflig, Flubbernugget)
Wake88 has mentioned wanting to hyper lynch both BBT and TTH until one of them flips scum. He later refines this down to a vote on TTH (post #118). While Wake88 later explores the possibility of both BBT and TTH being scum together, there is no indication of wanting to lynch BBT first. In post #260, Wake88 voted Anatole Kuragin.
In post #387 BBT votes Csareo
(BlueBloodedToffee (5): TellTaleHeart, Dougal121, The Rufflig, Flubbernugget, Csareo)
I'll admit this vote looks like it was prompted by Csareo's vote on BBT (post #383). However, BBT does have valid grounds for making this vote.
VOTE: CsareoDon't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 463, Csareo wrote:Not sure I get the case on me. Especially with the mountain of scumminess on BBT.
It's actually to the point of frustrating.
I'm not entirely sure why you voted for TTH in post #195, but I suspect it was the grammar/scum slip issue. You will, therefore, not be surprised to learn that reason can be applied to you as well. BBT and scrambles apparently think that you scum slipped by saying "when" instead of "if". Me? My reasons are a bit different.
I'm going to pick it up from #195. In your next post (#294), you reveal that you considered voting BBT, but decided on TTH instead as BBT had too many votes. Post #294, in general, signals that this is a policy vote for the neighbors rather than anything else. That policy vote sentiment is echoed in later posts. So far, no problems.
Post #350: this is the Anatole + BBT + TTH case. I've touched on it before, but I'd like to add a bit more.
"That was literally the scummiest thing I've seen. I'm almost certain it was forged, or details were ommited. The formatting was off, as if someone editted it.
Anyone notice that?" No, I didn't. However, that is grade A, smoking gun evidence (if true). That is not the sort of thing that one just glosses over. If you actually believed it, then I think it would have triggered a vote on BBT. At the very least, you would have pointed out where you think the problem lay. Anyway, statements like that push your view on BBT away from policy lynch.
Post #380. You thought 3 other players were convincing about BBT's guilt, but you were worried about actually lynching BBT. This should not be a concern, if you believe that BBT is scum. You seem more worried about what effect your vote on BBT might have on yourself.
Post #381The more I think about it, the less I am convinced he is a strong scum read.
, so that's why I'm unvoting.BBT and TTH on the other hand, are
A flip from either BBT and TTH would reveal a lot as well.
No! You can't go back to policy lynch with a snap of the fingers. Not after what you've already said. Just entertaining this thought once more shows a lack of conviction in your read on BBT. You've said BBT is your scum read. You've stated that BBT and TTH are not scum together. You can not lump TTH in with BBT again! NO!!!
Past here, we get into my more recent posts. Your case on BBT does not hold up. Thus, it appears that you aren't actually analyzing BBT. It appears that you are just making things up to justify your vote on BBT so you can deny having a "me too!" vote on him.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 472, Csareo wrote:Your case on me is weak. Even ruffles case is weak.
It was pretty much "You're scum because you voted X"
Then you haven't been reading my posts. Here is what you've said most recently about BBT:
In post 466, Csareo wrote:Oppurtunistic vote jumping, lack of scum hunting, and the fact that he is more focused on removing threats to himself than hunting scum, is why I'm voting him.
1) Opportunistic vote jumping.
Ok, let's go over his voting record again.
In post #8, BBT votes TTH.
TellTaleHeart (1): BlueBloodedToffee
In post #109 BBT votes Anatole Kuragin.
Anatole Kuragin (2): GreyICE, BlueBloodedToffee
In post #124 BBT returns his vote to TTH.
TellTaleHeart (2): Wake88, BlueBloodedToffee
In post #155 BBT votes scrambles
scrambles (1): BlueBloodedToffee
In post #261 BBT votes Wake88
Wake88 (2): Rambler, BlueBloodedToffee
In post #387 BBT votes Csareo
Csareo (1): BlueBloodedToffee
Which of these are opportunistic and why?
2) Lack of scum hunting.
This is a judgement call obviously. You needn't try to prove a negative to me.
3) more focused on removing threats to himself than hunting scum
I've tried to engage you on point 3 (no matter how you've stated it) multiple times. I've shown why I do not think this point is true. You keep repeating this point without giving any explanation as to why you believe it to be true. The only conclusion I can draw is that you know that this point is completely made up. Do you have any reason for continually repeating this point?
Bonus points:In post 350, Csareo wrote:That was literally the scummiest thing I've seen. I'm almost certain it was forged, or details were ommited. The formatting was off, as if someone editted it.
Can you back this statement up in any manner?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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@Boonskiies: Why didn't you just vote BBT instead of announcing an intent to vote? You seemed quite sure that he was scum.
In post 352, Boonskiies wrote:I don't like this, but meh. I was scum reading Csareo up until his most recent post.
You know, I don't recall you ever mentioning that you were scum reading Csareo. For that matter, I don't recall you mentioning him at all prior to this. If you had a scum read on Csareo, why didn't you tell us or vote him or poke at him?
Anatole Kuragin could be scum? Weren't you scum reading AK earlier? Let me dig it up:
In post 353, Boonskiies wrote:Anatole/BBT I can see as a scum team IF Wake ends up being town.
If Wake is scum, I find it hard to believe Anatole would be putting up such a fight against Wake. I do have a scum read on Anatole, but it also seems like playstyle to me. Wake is one of those characters that can really get someone worked up, and that's the only thing keeping me from voting Anatole right now other than the presence of BBT.
Afterwards, he sees Anatole vs Wake happening and picks a side. He's directly involved with the two, but he is staying under the radar. This makes me have a potential feeling that BBT is trying for a mislynch on either one of them leading into a second mislynch on the other. I've actually played with a scum BBT before, and he's actually playing quite similar. He started lurking when under pressure last time, though.
So to summarize: AK can be scum if Wake88 is town. If Wake is scum, then AK is not scum with him. You have a scum read on AK. BBT is trying to mislynch both AK and Wake88. I am concerned that you are assuming that AK and Wake88 are both town when you apply a case to BBT, but that you assume they are not both town when you are not talking about BBT.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Yes, but I wasn't trying to town read you in that game. I had you down as *ahem* village idiot - do not nk.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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@Boonskiies: What do you think it looks like to us when you claim a scum read on x and then make a scenario where x is town? Or vice-versa? It looks like you don't actually have a read on x and that you are lying to us about your reads. It also looks like you aren't actually trying to separate the scum from the townies. Unfortunately, Ihaveplayed with you before so I'm not convinced this is what is actually happening, but it strikes me as wrong.
I also have a question for you related to Csareo. Does Csareo make it a habit to do a summary case on a player and then ignore/refuse requests to actually explain what he is talking about? What do you think about what Csareo has said about BBT?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 513, Boonskiies wrote:BBT is flip flopping onto anyone who thinks he could be scum.
Cool. Would you explain that to me? Csareo has said the same thing, but has ignored my attempts to get him to explain it. I've explained why I do not think this statement is true in posts #415, #458 and #478.
Secondly, could you explain why you are neutral on TTH?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 514, Csareo wrote:@Ruffling- Can you explain the case on me a little more? All I could see was a summary of my actions and vote history.
You know, I've not gone overyourvote history. Most recently, what I've been showing is that your scum read on BBT is fabricated.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 516, Boonskiies wrote:I'm neutral on TTH because she isn't very prominent on the thread, other than the neighboring debacle. Like I said before, It's not necessarily the neighbor thing that is making me have a scum read on BBT, it's a combination of everything.
In what freaking universe do you think a mod puts two scum together in a neighborhood without any townies?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 519, Wake1 wrote:Rufflig, please provide some updated reads.
TellTaleHeart: likely town
Wake88: leaning town -- if there turns out to be scum in the nieghborhood then Wake88 is town. Take a look at Wake88's analysis of Boonskiies right near the end. Boonskiies is not in the neighborhood with TTH. I don't believe that Wake88 would have forgotten who was in the neighborhood if he was allied with a scum buddy in there.
massive: likely town
BlueBloodedToffee: leaning town
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Csareo: likely scum
Boonskiies: leaning scum
Anatole Kuragin: candidate for scum - I need to question him about some of his most recent posts.
I've not been able to get a read on the rest, yet.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 520, Boonskiies wrote:Weren't you one of the ones calling people scummy for not reading every post? There's the possibility they aren't really in a neighborhood, and just are scum with daytalk pulling an elaborate ruse. It doesn't make sense at all for two scum to be in a neighborhood because it's the same thing as just giving them daytalk.
I didn't even say that I thought they were both scum in that post. Please...actually read posts.
No, I wasn't one of the ones calling people scummy for not reading every post. You've seen the amount of attention that the BBT and TTH have received over the neighbors claim. If one of them gets lynched and does not flip neighbor, the other one gets lynched as well. At least one of them is likely to draw an investigation to boot. Do you really think that this is an elaborate ruse? The most likely scenario is that at least one of them is town. This is why I'm questioning you for being neutral on TTH while scum reading BBT.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 450, Anatole Kuragin wrote:he clearly is not being a helpful and productive townie, but I would make the same case for you[Csareo], boonskies, rambler, and a few others and I don't think you're scum[Csareo]
In post 486, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Csareoand Boonskies are pretty much exhibiting the same cognitive dissonance.
@Anatole Kuragin:Could you explain your stance changes on Csareo?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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@Boonskiies: That is insane. You are actually saying that TTH is as likely to be scum with BBT as not.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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There are only 4 scenarios to consider Boonskiies
1) BBT and TTH are both town and are neighbors together
2) BBT is town and TTH is scum and they are neighbors together
3) BBT is scum and TTH is town and they are neighbors together
4) BBT and TTH are both scum and are not neighbors
Your scum read is on BBT. Scenarios 1 and 2 are no longer possible. Between scenarios 3 and 4, you cannot make up your mind!Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 568, Csareo wrote:Just waiting for ruffling to hop in and defend you.
I'm afraid that I'm going to disappoint you. Most of what you have said does not directly contradict what has happened in the game; so, BlueBloodedToffee gets first crack at refuting your arguments. There is one thing that I am going to correct.
In post 538, Csareo wrote:Look what he said a couple of posts before he voted for me...
BBT voted for you in post #387 (iso BBT #57). What he said previously was in post #160 (iso BBT #22). There is a much larger gap here than what you've stated.
Thank you for the case.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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@TTH: It seems that you're not sure that BBT is scum and you don't appear to really find anyone else suspicious. Is that correct?
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Hmm, looks like BBT isn't going to touch the case on him. I guess it's fair game now.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 538, Csareo wrote:
He actually voted TTH before this reaction, but it could of been motivated by two things (from a scum mindset)
Hold it! This argument relies on TTH being town. Ok, go on.
In post 538, Csareo wrote:Partly why I thought he forged the PT
Stop! This requires TTH to be scum. There is no way a town TTH would let BBT get away with making things up about what is in a QT. You really can't have TTH be both town and scum in the same case against BBT. Not only is it nonsensical, but it also shows that you do not have an actual read on TTH.
Look, TTH posts once after the unvote and we have this
I think she is town
The unvote is post #140. The "I think she is town" is post #224. TTH posts 5 times between the two. That being said, BBT's waffling on TTH did make me uneasy. Waffling isn't strictly a scum trait, though. We have too many wafflers in this game for them all to be scum *sigh*.
BBT's lack of effective scum hunting while under pressure doesn't really bother me. I have seen a town player get so bogged down (day 1) in responses and defending himself that he could not actually scum hunt before.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 701, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Rufflig, you said you had some questions for me about my posts - was it just my posts about Csareo or did you have other questions?
Well, the back and forth on Csareo was one of the main things that I was curious about. I'll admit your answer did not help me. I was rather hoping to get some insight into how you were approaching your reads or the game or something. So, let me try again. Other than Jagged Alliance, who are you currently scum reading?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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@Jagged Alliance: Anyone besides Flubber that you don't like? Could you be more specific about who you don't like on the Csareo wagon? Do you feel Csareo's wagon sprang up to try and save BBT? What about BBT and his wagon?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 764, TellTaleHeart wrote:What would most help me read you all right now is a statement to the effect of "Csareo is working toward a scum win condition in (such a way)." Assume nothing. Explain it to me like you would to explain it to a toddler, because that's the level I'm feeling at about now.
I cannot make a case in that manner. If you'd like a hint as to what other reasons I have for not liking Csareo, then I can help you. Go through Csareo's ISO. Make a note of who he is town reading (no one). Also make a note of who he is scum reading or taking shots at (almost everyone). Csareo is not trying to figure out who is scum and who is town; he is trying to keep all of his lynch options open.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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Would you do me a favor, Wake88? Pressure Csareo into making a proper reads list, too. Csareo's BBT and x are scum and everyone else is null/town should not be allowed to stand as a reads list.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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Oh, nevermind. I see he's given a list. That's what I get for jumping to the end of the thread to see why there's nearly a dozen new pages on a Sunday.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 789, Flubbernugget wrote:Can we lynch BBT pls. And then put the spotlight on AK?
Lynch BBT? No thanks. However, I'm up for shining some light on Anatole Kuragin. I'd love to hear what you have to say on the subject.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 1083, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Why can't you put pressure on Csareo or me yourself? What do YOU have to say on the subject?
When I brought up Csareo's lack of town reads (post #794), he responded thus:
In post 797, Csareo wrote:Let's get something straight.
The ONLY two people I would consider lynching today are BBT and maybe massive.
I am null reading/town reading everyone else.
I am suspicious of a few people reacting to BBT's wagon, but they're null until there is an actual flip.
Wake88 had shown he will put Csareo at L-1. Wake88 is able to put more pressure on Csareo for an answer than I can.
As for pressuring you myself,
In post 790, The Rufflig wrote:In post 701, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Rufflig, you said you had some questions for me about my posts - was it just my posts about Csareo or did you have other questions?
Well, the back and forth on Csareo was one of the main things that I was curious about. I'll admit your answer did not help me. I was rather hoping to get some insight into how you were approaching your reads or the game or something. So, let me try again. Other than Jagged Alliance, who are you currently scum reading?
I already had an outstanding question out for you. I'm sure you simply missed it during the post explosion over the weekend. However, I wasn't really getting anywhere with my read on you, so I asked for a little help.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 1083, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Why can't you put pressure on Csareo or me yourself? What do YOU have to say on the subject?
In post 1191, The Rufflig wrote:
I already had an outstanding question out for you. I'm sure you simply missed it during the post explosion over the weekend. However, I wasn't really getting anywhere with my read on you, so I asked for a little help.
In post 1211, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Right, I answered the question about my reads elsewhere without directly acknowledging this post - I find your playing weird in the same way that Flubber's do - asking for pressure or implying there is something I'm not being upfront about despite me answering any question given. I don't know if that makes you scummy or not. I think I'm going to make a case on Boon when I have some more time later.
I implied nothing of the sort! You asked why I couldn't pressure you myself and what I had to say on the subject. My response was that I was indeed trying to put a little pressure on you and that I did in fact have a post for you at the time that I asked Flubbernugget for his thoughts. Yes, you have since answered the question, but that wasn't the point. The point was that I was indeed trying to shine some light onto you myself and not simply trying to get Flubbernugget to do the work for me.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 801, Csareo wrote:It has also became clear that the same players start becoming active whenever he begins to be tunneled again (massive, greencrayons, ruffles)
There is a very simple reason for this and it has nothing to do with BBT's alignment. I'll give you an example of this principle at work.
GreyICE's LaL push on AK. We know this wasn't true. There was push back on GreyICE for making the claim and on BBT for sheeping the vote. When Csareo made bad cases against BBT, the push back came into play against him. In theory, everyone who pushes GreyICE/JA for making a bad case and pushes BBT for following a bad case should also have some concerns about Csareo. In practice, it doesn't happen.
@Doogal121 & Flubbernugget:Could you tell me why this hasn't happened in your case?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 1242, Green Crayons wrote:Out of curiosity, Rufflig (sorry I've been mistaking it as Ruffling): how in the world did you come to that single line of Post 801 -- a sentence from a wall post that's 400 posts in the past?
Csareo reposted it in #1131. I went back and reread what he wrote about BBTagain.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 1385, FakeGod wrote:In post 1373, Green Crayons wrote:Because wake has a theory that they're both scum faking to be neighbors.
That theory is impossible, because this is a Normal game, and that means that everyone who has an access to a neighborhood will flip "Neighbor", whether the person is scum or town.
The sad part is that we've had this discussion with all of these exact same points before and the topic still keeps coming up. *sigh*Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 1422, Wake1 wrote:For the longest time you fought against sharing the mod's post in your supposed PT. You also say that after 1,200 posts not one more thing has been said in your 2-player Neighborhood. As I predicted, you and TTH came out of the gate as "Neighbors" pointing fingers at each other, yet rather quickly "made up" and passed it over, providing some sort of cover to make everyone believe you're Neighbors. And now you flat-out refuse to provide a screenshot of the PT, even though DP said Neighborhood was fair game and refused to clarify that Scum can't fabricate their PT posts.
Focus, Wake88. Quoting the mod verbatim is a modkillable offense is most games. BBT has been steadfast in his refusal to quote the mod without permission. The mod's silence on that question is what finally led to BBT quoting it. The neighbors do not have day talk, they can only speak at night. Their PT is locked. They cannot make new posts in their PT no matter how many posts we generate during day 1. Screenshots is yet another common modkillable offense. How can you blame BBT for wanting permission from the mod, first?
If you insist on believing BBT and TTH are faking the whole thing, why not pick on TTH for awhile?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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Well, that pretty much kills the chance of a Csareo lynch for today.
UNVOTE: Csareo
I'm willing to vote Doogal121 or Jagged Appliance. I'm town reading Green Crayons. I'm luke warm on Boonskiies.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Pass.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 1566, Flubbernugget wrote:@Ruffig when was the Csareo wagon officially dead to you?
When Fake God town read Csareo, the wagon was officially dead. At that point the numbers no longer worked. Even if Wake88 returned to the Csareo wagon, that would only put Csareo at L-2. At least 1 additional player would have had to switch from the BBT wagon in order to make a compromise deadline lynch feasible. The odds of that occurring were minuscule.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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Unfortunately, Fake God, that does appear to be Boonskiies play style.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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I said it earlier, but I've had a prior game with Boonskiies recently. He was town and I was scum. I would never have nk'd him in that game.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Anyway, Fake God:
In post 1574, Flubbernugget wrote:Considering the player I could see a pr flip happening. Like, I can see him trying to earn that troll reputation over forwarding the wincon, but was that the only anti-pr tell on him?
Flubbernugget was in that game too (town). You're just going to have to treat Boonskiies as an honorary member of the screaming death clan.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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I was not town reading Boonskiies. I do not claim to be able to read his alignment with any certainty. The swiftness of Boonskiies' wagon reaching L-1 with only 1 vote moving from BBT raises a lot of troubling questions.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 1599, FakeGod wrote:In post 1598, The Rufflig wrote:I was not town reading Boonskiies. I do not claim to be able to read his alignment with any certainty. The swiftness of Boonskiies' wagon reaching L-1 with only 1 vote moving from BBT raises a lot of troubling questions.
For a guy claiming to not townread Boons, you are going at great lengths to defend Boons.
Yes, I suppose I am. However, I couldn't let your argument against Boonskiies stand uncontested. Boonskiies is aptly self-described as a troll; you weren't taking that into account. I really haven't touched Massive and Jagged Appliances' cases.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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I refuse to lynch BBT, today.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Back on track then?
VOTE: Jagged ApplianceDon't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 1998, TellTaleHeart wrote:I don't know if it's the right thing to do, but I'll go ahead and claim since I want input from FakeGod and Rufflig.
I'm a vengeful townie. In the event of my lynch, I get a vigilante kill. Should you all choose to lynch me, I would probably kill massive but I might also think about a shot at Jagged Appliance or Anatole.
I might also shoot Csareo if for no other reason than to cut down on the clutter in the thread and get rid of a distracting noise source.
I do not attempt to influence kills made by townies. As far as I'm concerned such choice should be wholly yours - I don't like such choices to possibly be influenced by scum.
This was not the right time to bring it up. By bringing it up now you place a choice on the town. Either to lynch you and hope for the best with the kill or to not lynch you and risk losing the ability to a nk. Currently, I'd rather have you in the game.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 2038, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:PEdit - No, I don't know what you mean FG
Allow me. Let us say there are 5 players left and only 1 of them is scum. Ordinarily, the town has two chances left to lynch the remaining scum.
One of the townies says, "I'm vengeful. Lynch me!" and gets lynched. The vengeful townie shoots another townie. 5 players - 1 lynched townie - 1 vengeful'd townie - 1 nk'd townie = 1 townie + 1 scum. Game over - town loses. The town gave up 1 chance to lynch scum for a vengeful kill. You can run through the numbers with a full game as a homework assignment.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 2096, FakeGod wrote:I'd say Green Canyon is a much better shot, if you're going for style.
massive is probably your most sensible shot though.
No!
Would you care to explain why you would like to see either of them shot?Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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So, anything happen in the last 20 odd pages? Nope, not really. Same old arguments: check. Deadlocked on the wagons again. Wonderful.
VOTE: Anatole KuraginDon't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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Yes, it's a hammer.
VOTE: Jagged ApplianceDon't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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In post 2654, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:3 claimed PR's and scum look elsewhere.
That certainly is interesting.
It was fairly obvious who your partner was. The only two players who had not voted for you or been voted by you were massive and Green Crayons. From there it was a moderate exercise in reading isos. Fake God and I both figured it out yesterday (see post 2119). Still, it seemed like a pretty stupid shot for the scum to make.
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In post 2651, FakeGod wrote:Flubber, Doogal, and Boons were on both town wagons
You were also on both wagons.
BlueBloodedToffee's wagon reached its peak in post #1778 for the second time.
1778) FakeGod votes BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee(6): Flubbernugget, Csareo, Boonskiies, Doogal121, Wake88, FakeGod
Boonskiies (5):BlueBloodedToffee, massive,Jagged Appliance, TellTaleHeart,Green Crayons
Not Voting: The Rufflig, Anatole Kuragin
In spite of Fake God blaming Wake88 for BBT claiming mason, it was Fake God's vote here that led to it. If you want to split hairs, Fake God chose to trust Csareo's scum read on BBT.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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The Rufflig Mafia Scum
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In post 2667, FakeGod wrote:Rufflig, I agree that GC kill was dumb, but can you explain why?
Because the scum made BlueBloodedToffee into a confirmed townie that they cannot kill. Any protective role player worth his salt will be protecting BBT from now on (if he wasn't already). The controversy over BBT and the ability of the scum to lynch BBT vanishes completely.
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In post 2678, Wake1 wrote:If you would, FakeGod, please show me (actually show me) how it was very apparent who the 2nd Mason was.
I'll do it.
Vote Count as of post #1038
BlueBloodedToffee (6): TellTaleHeart, Flubbernugget, Csareo, Boonskiies, Doogal121, Wake88
Vote count as of post #1778
BlueBloodedToffee (6): Flubbernugget, Csareo, Boonskiies, Doogal121, Wake88, FakeGod
All of those players voting for BBT while he was at L-1 were certainly not a mason with BBT. BBT's partner would not risk BBT getting lynched.
That leaves us with 5 players who could have been masons with BBT: Jagged Appliance, Green Crayons, massive, Anatole Kuragin, The Rufflig
BBT lists Jagged Appliance and Anatole Kuragin as scum at some point (although he changes his mind on JA).
TellTaleHeart already showed that I initially thought BBT was scum early on (I changed my mind).
That leaves Green Crayons and massive as the only two players who could be masons with BBT. At this point, I had to read all 3 of them in ISO. I read BBT to see how he treated GC and massive. I read massive and GC to see how they treated BBT. I couldn't be 100% sure that it was GC and not massive, but there were hints pointing to it such as this one:
In post 749, Green Crayons wrote:At any rate, because BBT is so incredibly town it hurts,
and what TTH already posted.Don't Panic!Where there's life there's hope. Be seeing you!
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