Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[ryan]

Vote Aimee

[ryan]

OMGUS vote: Ryan

*waves*

*waves back* You little........*beep* (j/k girl)

[ryan]

I like it. 3 masons, 3 mafia and 5 townies, a great setup that makes it very interesting on who's telling the truth and who isn't

[ryan]

I agree. It is

super wow amazing woot

!

That quote is exactly why Day 1 is fun, cause you can say something like this and get away with it

[ryan]

Just to get some discussion started (since we've made it through the "random voting process" And the thread has been pretty quiet).

bird1111, what do you think about bandwagons?

Lowell: Do you believe the town has the advantage right now?

Adel: Being a new player (as you stated above) What is your strategy in this game for finding sucm?

[ryan]

unvote

No suspect as of yet but I'm sure I'll have one soon. The reason for my unvote is we are well past the "random vote stage" so it's time to start huntin some scum. 8)

[ryan]

bird1111, what do you think about bandwagons?

I think they are a useful tool for getting reactions, though you do have to watch out for scum-driven ones

What about the ones that make newbie townies get defensive and look scummy? Couldn't bandwagons be bad that way?

[ryan]

Speaking of "information gained" some more posting by everybody would help out

[ryan]

Adel: Agreed, that is what I was trying to say earlier, we have ALOT of lurkers right now

[ryan]

You make a good point Lowell. Maybe a little pressure on a few of the lurkers will get them to chirp

vote:A Papaya

[ryan]

Well until we get the entire thread participating, it's going to be hard to find the scum and masons.

[ryan]

Adel and Lawrencelot: Why the double unvote of theodor_COD? Both of you had a vote on and than within 4 posts (72 and 76) you both unvoted? Coincidence or some chat on a new target for you two to go after?

[ryan]

Makes sense, thanks for clarifying

[ryan]

I'm just waiting for A Papaya to follow-up on his promise to post something today.

Doesn't look promising, I'm happy with my vote

[ryan]

Posting, um...nothing is happening right now?

You said you'd post about the game, we've seen nothing from ya.

[ryan]

I'm here, but I've been very busy. I'm going to be busy today too,

but I'll read this thread and post sometime tomorrow or saturday

.

Sorry, you know. It's just life.

This is your post A Papaya that we are waiting on.

[ryan]

Well I guess we'll have 10 people commenting than with Aimee being gone, so let's strike it up again

[ryan]

Lowell: I think you are on to something about the least content and I guess with A Papaya promising content and than failing miserably I'm wondering if the scum is starting to shine through

[ryan]

In the games I've played I am surprised at the people who suddenly start posting when they get a few votes placed on them

[ryan]

Ok, ok, I'm here.

On the chart: At this point in the game, I don't think we can get much information out of it.

I failed miserably at content because I really didn't see anything worth commenting on. I still don't...I will when we get to the intelligent stage of the game.

In other news,

Unvote

.

I'm here, but I've been very busy. I'm going to be busy today too, but I'll read this thread and post sometime tomorrow or saturday.

Sorry, you know. It's just life.

These two posts are the ones that concern me, and although it’s been brought up that he could be just a newbie town, he hasn’t contributed to us finding the mafia and has now muddied up the thread with posts about him and how he should post better content, with that being said though it wouldn’t surprise me if he was lurking intentionally. I’m going to keep my vote on him for now in hopes of some better content

[ryan]

Not contributing is what we are having a problem with right now. Lurking or near lurking or sorta lurking are all not beneficial to the rest of us and that's why A Papaya's "non post" put me on alert to him and enough to drop a vote in his direction. Ripley has been a little quiet as well. I don’t have a problem with putting somebody under some pressure to post something worth reading instead of the one liners we’ve seen so far.

[ryan]

Wow, that was very to the point, Ripley.

I would like a Lowell claim by the end of the day.

Unvote Adel, vote Lowell

HOLD on a second. Why would we want Lowell to claim already? If he's a power role he could lynched on the first day. I'm not following your reasoning ABR to have Lowell already give out his role

[ryan]

Ryan, there are

no

power roles. This is an open setup, 3x mafia, 3x masons, 5x townies.

OMG I am an idiot. I misread the first post by our mod when I posted my response. I thought we had a cop (mixed in with the townies) I apologize for my misread

[ryan]

A Papaya has shown with this postings that he basically doesn't fear being lynched for lack of content. I put my vote on him squarely for the fact that he IS posting but he isn't posting anything of content nor is he defending his actions. I still feel he's sitting back watching this looking for a place to come in and attack somebody else, I'm pretty sure I know who he'll go after (which might be able to show us some other things about people) but I'll wait for his post to see if I'm right.

[ryan]

The 3 posts Lowell made are set-up in a way that would finish in the conclusion which you have posted. Papaya might or might not be scum,

and not posting content is anti-town

, but who knows what he might be thinking ? Lack of content is not scummy, its just plain anti-town. Promoting a system that would facilitate a scum victory is scummy.

EXACTLY what I've been saying, it's the same thing as saying you are going to post and than now posting ANYTHING of help to finding scum. It's counterproductive and not helpful one bit to the town. Papaya is definetly lurking and giving off lots of scummy tendencies

[ryan]

The 3 posts Lowell made are set-up in a way that would finish in the conclusion which you have posted. Papaya might or might not be scum, and not posting content is anti-town, but who knows what he might be thinking ? Lack of content is not scummy, its just plain anti-town. Promoting a system that would facilitate a scum victory is scummy.

He said he would place his vote on the person who he considered the biggest lurker. Who knows what

you

are thinking, who knows what

I

am thinking? Lack of content is scummy: the best reason for not posting content is a scum-aligned player who is weary of making mistakes. Promoting a system that would facilitate a scum victory is indeed scummy, and you are promoting a system that lynches a person whose only crime is hunting lurkers! If you are not scum, how can you not see this?

Not posting content is not scummy. Its anti-town. Being anti-town doesn't = scum.

Uh........than if you are not for the town how does that no equal being scummy? Not helping the town would basically mean you dont want the town to win, correct? The mafia doesn't want the town to win. Hence why I would say that anti town is scummy.

[ryan]

Lowell's behavior is the exact opposite of other games in which he has been townie. Also, Lowell is not a particularly crafty player to think of WIFOM tactics.

I think Lowell would be the best bandwagon to start the day off with

.

Doesn't this statement along with your vote imply you want Lowell dead?

[ryan]

*impatiently waits for Adel to comment on ryan's inability to read and quote*

Ah yes, I post the same comment but I can't read or comment. Nice ABR, I liked you better when you could only post by a rap

[ryan]

Some quick thoughts.

1) It is not acceptable to lynch A Papaya yet. It just isn't. For what it's worth, I tend to agree with the lynchers, but I'm definately not adding my vote yet.
2) I'm buying

Albert and Adel

as town. Albert's most recent post of questions is right on the money, and I'd like the same answers.
3)

FOS Lawrence

. The last post (201) really rubs me the wrong way. Looks very much like a set-up to blame someone else for a mislynch. If A Papaya turns up town, this is where I'll go first.
4) I'm not thrilled about an a papaya claim.

I feel like Papaya is an inexperienced player, and could potentially ruin some shit with a bad claim

.

I have no problems giving him a chance to speak his mind Lowell, but you seemed awfully worried about a claim from him, possibly a scum mate? Please explain what he could ruin if he "claims.” I will agree with you on the Lawrence post though, Lawrence saying that if Papaya is town and gets lynched he is immediately going after Adel doesn’t make a lot of sense to me especially after he said

that probably means the town wants him dead.

It’s almost as if he’s fishing for justification to jump on Papaya BUT also giving himself an out if he’s a townie, can’t say I like that reasoning.

[ryan]

To Clarify Lawrence. It read to me as though if the town wanted him lynched, you'd do it BUT if you did and he was town you'd go after Adel the next day, to me that sounded like "well if he's mafia I look good but if he's a townie, I have a reason to hit up Adel" I thought it was wishy/washy and basically saved your butt either way you voted. Thank you for clarifying that you do not want him lynched, and although I disagree and believe him scum, at least you took a stance.

Sir Tornado: I do have a problem with lurkers and definetly don't appreciate them BUT lynching a lurker could put the rest of us townies at risk especially if the lurker towns out to be a townie who's just not posting. Papaya promised content than basically thumbed his nose at us by not commenting, I found that to be extremely anti-town and also scummy. That is why I placed my vote on him. As for putting myself in the spotlight, I guess I figured with the frequency of my posts that would show I'm 100% on board with catching scum and figured I was posting enough thoughts to show that.

[ryan]

I've seen people "fake claim" in games and who knows what causes people to do what they do. Maybe he hasn't played enough games to know what to do as a certain role.

[ryan]

theopor_COD: Please inform me on what I've done to get on your scumdar? I never said that just posting was enough to show you are pro town but I've been doing my best to keep conversation going and talk about different players including the lynch lurkers or don't lynch lurkers squabble we continue to have. If I was blending in I'd be posting one line sentences just to look like I was around instead of engaging in conversations/discussions. I'm a little surprised that one post out of me would put me on par with Papaya who has already shown by these posts that he’s anti town.

Adel I'll claim at 6 votes, if that's what you want.

Posting, um...nothing is happening right now?

Please explain how he's been “pro town?”

[ryan]

FoS theopor_COD

How on earth can you call the timing of a claim idiotic at best but still believe it? You point the finger at me for "following lurker wagons" on a non poster (please look back and tell me that Papaya was doing so much for the town) And why would you want the masons to speak on him anyway? The masons are suppose to stay silent and not let the scum know who they are. Or am I misrepresenting you again? Looking awfully scummy right now my friend

[ryan]

Your a smartass plain and simple theopor_COD. You can't seem to have a discussion in a "game" without turning it into your supreme intelligence against others. I find you suspicious and NOT an OMGUS (your term not mine speaking of misrepresenting) because of facts. Papaya has admitted to lurking and you find NO problem with it, lurking is anti town, period. He hasn't posted any content BUT when he gets close to getting lynched and claims mason you immediately have no problem with it. You are not playing with the town in mind right now instead it's turning into this big "let me show you how smart I am and how you do not understand my intelligent posts" You want to talk about blending in? How about "quick to defend somebody" you have no idea if he's telling the truth or not and nor do I, but my claim that he still could be scummy doesn't seem to hold any water with you.

[ryan]

I have no problem with people suspecting me, it's half the fun of the game is trying to prove why you aren't guilty but blatant stuff like not posting is anti town and you still don't seem to get that

[ryan]

Listen guys, if you really think A Papaya is who he says he is, I have no problem going back through and looking around to find somebody else. I just have a strong suspicion that claim was out of desperation (after he admitted to "not wanting to be lynched") The post content (not count) has been awful and to me (especially after the hasty claim) it was a no brainer he was scum. I'll re-read and see if anyone else turns up scummier, I have no problem doing that. I had no problem being voted as a possible scum as I said earlier, that is half the fun, defending yourself but I felt the tone of the messages was done to make me feel stupid and that pissed me off.

[ryan]

The problem I have with lurkers is this, they bog down the game, start problems like this, and are anti town by not helping us. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if I was just in a "semi disagreement" with a townie. I mean two townies going after eachother in a thread isn't uncommon and with both wanting to find scum they end up going after eachother which is another reason I said I'd re-read and make sure nobody jumped out scummier than Papaya. For now........

UnFoS: theopor_COD

I think we had a couple of pro townies get a little too heated while looking for scum.

[ryan]

I like your idea Adel, I’m going to change it a “little” bit. I’m going to go back through and quote the posts that are a little strange and maybe we can build from there?

If I were a mason OR scum, I'd probably be lurking right now. Just something to think about.

I'm here, but I've been very busy. I'm going to be busy today too, but I'll read this thread and post sometime tomorrow or saturday.

Sorry, you know. It's just life.

Posting, um...nothing is happening right now?

Unvote

; way past time to have a random vote on.

Thought this was curious that it took him 4 pages to unvote his random

unvote, vote Sir Tornado

My day 1 policy, vote for whoever has gone the longest w/o posting. Tornado, post and my vote leaves.

FOS A Papaya

... were my policy to vote for the person with the least CONTENT, this would be a vote.


Seriously, this is how I'm going to play. We need to be able to draw connections on D1. I very firmly believe this is more essential than other games.

Lowell makes a good point to get people to vote BUT sayin this is his policy on how he votes isn’t entirely true as I’ve played games with him before where this never was the case. It could be a new strategy but I’m not sold on that

Ok, ok, I'm here.

On the chart: At this point in the game, I don't think we can get much information out of it.

I failed miserably at content because I really didn't see anything worth commenting on. I still don't...I will when we get to the intelligent stage of the game.

In other news,

Unvote

.

Page 5 to finally unvote his random?

If the content of Lowell's posting only consists of playing an automated vote, call that a scum tell. For purposes of vote analysis maybe look at his FoS instead of his vote. My vote, as I said before, is also automated. I know that my last FoS was a mirror of Lowell's automated vote, so I'll make sure my next FoS is based upon something more insightful that lack of posting.

Call it what you want. The point is, we need players to post. And for now, I don't even really care if those posts are mostly placeholders. People who continue to post placeholders and say nothing will get attacked on those grounds anyway (see: a papaya). In a game like this, I'm more concerned with players who disappear altogether.

Again I say: anyone who thinks lurking doesn't work as a scum tactic is kidding her/himself. It always works. Always has, always will.

But not this time. Vote stands.

Not sure why he wants to give away hints about lurking

Wow, that was very to the point, Ripley.

I would like a Lowell claim by the end of the day.

Unvote Adel, vote Lowell

Seems VERY early to have Lowell claim

Wow, that was very to the point, Ripley.

I would like a Lowell claim by the end of the day.

Unvote Adel, vote Lowell

Haha this I like to see.

I don't claim that I've been particularly useful thusfar. I only said I feel like policing the thread. Don't worry, there will be time for both, calm down.

He admits to not being useful thusfar? WHAT?

Lowell's behavior is the exact opposite of other games in which he has been townie. Also, Lowell is not a particularly crafty player to think of WIFOM tactics. I think Lowell would be the best bandwagon to start the day off with.

Pretty bold to try the “Bandwagon Lowell” tactic

What a load of logical fallacies.

I think Albert B. Rampage needs to reread the last line of mine he quoted. What was I trying to say with that? Does it support your conclusion? Isn't reading comprehension a prerequisite for good play?

You are attacking my person by saying I can't read. And what I have quoted supports my conclusion one hundred percent. You are clearly giving support to lynching lurkers.

The person I was referring to has over a thousand posts. That means nothing.

I want to lynch someone who proposes a system that facilitates the mafia's job.

Talk about a VAGUE post. Why not just say who you are talking about instead of all these “hinting” around games?

The 3 posts Lowell made are set-up in a way that would finish in the conclusion which you have posted. Papaya might or might not be scum, and not posting content is anti-town, but who knows what he might be thinking ? Lack of content is not scummy, its just plain anti-town. Promoting a system that would facilitate a scum victory is scummy.

Very wishy/washy. Could be, could be not. Not very assertive, almost afraid to commit to an idea

A player who wants to let scum win needs to be lynched. With your 3rd quote Adel, are you agreeing with me that the person I mentioned is Lowell or are you misquoting ?

You made the comment clearly referring to Lowell, the subject of your bandwagon. No misquote, I listed the post numbers to assist people in fact checking.

So, who is the third member of your scum group with A Papaya?

Too bad I have a town read on you, it makes you look that much stupider. I wasn't "clearly" referring to anyone. You assumed I was referring to Lowell, so I take it you assume that lynching lurkers is good for the town ?

What is this “Rush Hour 1?” You assume I cant speak English

Nice try, scum.

I'm done with this. It isn't doing the town any good to continue. Our cases are out there for the other players to read and judge. Going on with this conversation this long makes both of us look petty, and I'm moving on. I feel like I've exposed you, so it has been worth it.

Stop appealing to emotion. Insulting me isn't doing anything at all. Did you even read my post?

Adel don't do this. I'm town, and if I get lynched and the rest of the town finds that out, you'll seem like scum. Which you probably are.

Finally a semi content post from him, not a good one but semi…….

Adel I'll claim at 6 votes, if that's what you want.

If he was looking for humor he should have posted more earlier

bird1111: Sorry that I didn't, I just didn't find much to comment on. I mean others said that I should of, but I honestly didn't.

8 pages of stuff and he has NOTHING to say? Can you say lurk?

Is A Papaya at lynch -1 or -2 now? I don't like this bandwagon at all. However, with so many people on it, that probably means the town wants him dead. Adel, are you that certain of papaya being scum that you want to risk being lynched next day? I don't know if you can still do anything about it, but I won't blame you if you unvote. If you keep your vote on him, I might vote A papaya too but if he is town I will vote you next day.

Another wishy washy post that gives him an out if he votes incorrectly

[ryan]

Hmm. If you are a mason A Papaya,

please place a vote on whom you believe is most likely to be scum

. I think that would help us evaluate your claim with out the other masons having to out themselves if you are telling the truth.

A question that has still gone unanswered. Who is scum in your mind? We've got 4 non votes right now and it'd be nice to get some imput from some of the people who have not helped us actively find the scum in this game, you know who you are.

[ryan]

You know, this is my first real game here (my newbie game -- newbie 378 -- was messed up royally), so I may be wrong here, but is it normal to just focus on one player only? As it stands right now, most players are going after A Papaya, or defending him. Shouldn't we enlarge our perspective a bit? Take a look at other players? We still don't have any deadline, so, we don't have to be too hasty in lynching anyone.

I supported A Papaya bandwagon earlier on so that he may come under pressure and atleast post, or give out something scummy. All we got from him is a mason claim. I am not sure we would get anything else from A Papaya. He seems to have clamed up.

I feel that we shouldn't lynch just for the sake of lynching the lurkers, but lynch only when we are absolutely certain about the scumminess of the lynchee, especially when we do not have a deadline in the place.

Having said that, I would still keep my vote where it is (on A Papaya), at least until we get a confirmation or a denunciation of A Papaya's claim. But, at the same time, I think we should also start looking else where -- at the active posters -- the avid lurker hunters as well and try to put them under pressure and get something out of them too

That is why I quoted a bunch of posts to look at others. ABR and Lowell both (after my re-read) have said a few things that have raised my eyebrow. I'd like to hear more content from our lurkers but since Papaya makes a claim (as early as he did) I'm still thinking a scum that's trying to swerve the rest of the town

[ryan]

ABR I am REALLY hoping you are a townie just pulling a "fake claim" because now we have TWO people claiming mason and we haven't even gotten through Day 1 yet. I've played enough games to realize that you have a..........well "unique" way of playing but revealing this early is unlike you. I'm a little confused on why you'd vote Lowell if Adel and myself are the two you believe are scum. Can you explain your reasoning on that? Why are you so certain the mafia would have found you out without claiming? Isn't that a big assumption early on? The only thing that sticks out to me as you could be scum trying to save A Papaya with this claim. I'm feeling more confident in my vote on Papaya but this new claim does make me wonder a little more about you now.

[ryan]

ABR: I'm not quite sure why you are on a crusade to take me down but I'll play along because your play for the most part has been lurking and than POOF, Papaya claims and you are out of the woodwork on me for my vote on him. I think one or both of you are lying right now and your threat on the town to vote your choice or you will expose the "alleged" third mason is an extremely anti town play and I know I'm not the only one to see it. Lowell makes a good point in 270, as the 2nd mason shouldn't have said anything. Now we have two mason's exposed to the three scum out there.

Ripley: We have two alleged masons who if they are truly who they say they are just put themselves out there for the mafia to kill the next two nights. What part are you missing? If they were really masons the 2nd would NOT have confirmed the first and put themselves in the limelight, which is what they just did. (if they are who they say they are) I feel confident that Papaya is our scum and am a little surprised my comments all of a sudden turned you on me.

theopor_COD: No it wouldn't make sense for two scum to claim they were masons BUT does it make sense for the 2nd mason to come out and claim and put TWO mason's in the limelight? Why is it so improbable to you that somebody could be lying?

Adel: IF they both are lying than the real Mason should step forward and say something, if they are telling the truth than NOTHING should be said and ABR should NOT rat out the 3rd member of the mason as that would be a stupid move.

To the rest of the town, ABR should NOT reveal the 3rd member of the mason and I ask of you to post and tell him to stay quiet. This is screaming of anti town and you know it ABR. Revealing information to the mafia? How is that helpful? Seriously man

[ryan]

I'm more scummier than somebody else? I'm in no condition to flush out the remaining lurkers? Please explain those to me Sir Tornado. I've got no problems posting thoughts on the players here and while you FINALLY drop your vote on somebody after dropping FoS's on people and than nutting up and voting, I've at least had conversations where I've tried to find the scum in this game. I'm a little confused on how Lowell and Adel led me to flush out our lurkers in this thread. What part of me engaing in conversations did you miss? We've got people lurking all over (check Papaya's post history) here and I've come under fire from an obvious mafia player (ABR) and anyone who would threaten to rat out the 3rd Mason is an anti town player, straight up. ABR or Papaya is the correct vote today.

[ryan]

Ryan what do you make of Adel and the fact he "was actively looking to clear you"?

The first thought honestly was that Adel was scum and she was targeting me for a night kill (by saying she was trying to clear me it'd be a good cover if I died in the night) I still don't appreciate the fact that ABR threatened the town and is basically getting away with it, but apparently they've given enough proof they are masons? Not in my mind they haven't. Adel is at least posting content in this thread which is more than I can say out of alot of our current players. I'm gonna stay on the fence when it comes to Adel because I'm honestly torn about her innocence/guilt, I'm predicting right now (if hard pressed) that she's town that's been targeted by some scum.

[ryan]

Albert. I am still waiting to hear why you imposed that 72 hour deadline. I know you backtracked later on, but could you please explain why you imposed it in the first place?

Out of pleasure to see Adel languish in fear, of course

To see how different players would react. Who would turn against me, who would contradict themselves (like how we caught ryan), to gain information.

Caught me? Caught me doing what Albert? Calling you out on your horrible play maybe? Or disagreeing with your little idea of outing the last mason, on day 1 with NOBODY close to being lynched. You are hurling alot of insults around in this thread and not really taking any blame for your terrible play. Insulting people because they don't agree with your "theory" is not good town play. So even if your "mason claim" is true, you've done enough scummy things to be a very unuseful mason. You seem to have no problem outing the 3rd mason IF you are nightkilled on night 1 but yet you haven't really said WHY you claimed early when Papaya wasnt close to being lynched. You've made some mistakes Albert that makes you less than innocent as well.

[ryan]

So claiming three mason on the first day is good town play? That's basically what you were threatening to do Albert.

[ryan]

So claiming three mason on the first day is good town play? That's basically what you were threatening to do Albert.

Dude your 97% confirmed scum lol. I don't have to defend myself from you.

Ah yes, Albert percentages. Who else but you has claimed me scum Albie? You are trying to start a bandwagon on me and I don't appreciate it. I'm as town as they come and you have continued an assault on a townie and that is why I am having problems believing you and your mason (alleged) friend.

[ryan]

Ryan - I'm happy to side with Albert here, I have you firmly pencilled in as scum.

I'm sorry to see you side with ABR, I thought you were more pro town than that. I am starting to believe that Papaya is our mason (by a re-read I just finished) BUT I don't like ABR's strategy in the game and find his play to be unhelpful. Due to my re-read, I think I did make a mistake on Papaya and have a couple of possibles for scum. We still have to wait for a few people to weigh in before I put my vote down

Unvote

[ryan]

ryan we love you <3

<3?

[ryan]

ryan we love you <3

<3?

It's a heart ryan, a heart symbolizing my sympathy for you.

Your sympathy to me? Let me ask you a

non game

question, are you a smartass in real life too or just on here when you can sit behind a computer and not have to look anyone in the face when you drop your comments?

[ryan]

Due to my re-read, I think I did make a mistake on Papaya and have a couple of possibles for scum.

Do share these possibles?

Ripley - If we have another batch of masons claim then yeh it seems like a workable plan. Obviously its hypthetical. I'd state that anyone who isn't a mason or scum i.e a townie doesn't claim "just because they dislike Albert".

Honestly I don't have any posts that I can use as evidence right now but my re-read showed to me that Lawrencelot and Lowell seem to be posting just enough to look like they are looking for scum but not alot when it comes to actually "finding" any scum. Those are just my gut instincts and I'll be honest Adel's overexcitement has looked a little scummy as well.

[ryan]

Ryan, you just try so hard, and I give you respect for that.

Your theme song would be "I Get Knocked Down" by Tubthumping. Rock on, mate.

You my friend would need a couple of friends to knock me down

[ryan]

I know the song Albert, talks about getting knocked down and getting up again. I stated factually that you would need a few friends to knock me down big talker. I haven't liked your tactics in this game or any other I've played in and you prove it constantly with your "ABR vs the world" stance that you constantly take. You are one of the few players that makes this game not a "game" anymore with your cheap shots and anti town behavior. I think you enjoy trying little tricks out on different games to see where it will get you and who you'll piss off again.

[ryan]

theopor_COD: I think a problem we have right now is we have 4 active posters with 4 of the same thoughts, finding scum, but right now instead of waiting for some actual content from others there are a few that seem a lynch is necessary right now. I think some other opinions are needed before a choice is made

[ryan]

Where are we at vote count wise?

[ryan]

Unofficial Votecount

A Papaya (1) -- bird1111
Aimee (2) -- Lowell, Sir Tornado
ryan (1) -- Ripley
Adel (3) -- Albert B. Rampage, A Papaya, theopor_COD
Albert B. Rampage (1) -- Lawrencelot

Not Voting: Aimee, Adel, ryan
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

Is that right?

[ryan]

A Papaya: I'm not 100% on board with you not being scum but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as I did drop my vote from you. Please stay up to speed if you are going to comment. I'm not surprised to not see a counter claim as one of our masons could be gone at the present time

[ryan]

I can't believe Bird, Aimee and Lowell are all masons - if Albert and A Papaya are scum one of the other supposed masons must be about. Aimee said she'd be back today so I'm anticipating something substantial from her.

I didn't say all those missing are masons but would be unbelievable to think that two of them are? Or even one?

[ryan]

As I JUST posted, I'm not saying all three are masons but it is possible that at least two are and the third has been posting without giving up who he/she is. As for missing my bolded Unvote and than my substantial reasoning is a little funny, but whatever works.

[ryan]

ABR has played other games I'm involved with him very "out there" that is why it's very hard for me to believe he's one of the "good guys" Claiming as fast as he did when Papaya wasn't in danger was a little surprising as with two masons alive it wasn't like Papaya was in danger of going down. The only problem with that theory is that Papaya hasn't said that ABR is scum and basically has already said that ABR is mason with him. So as much as I find Papaya to be lurky, not helpful to the town and guilty I have to sit back and admit that he has confirmed ABR to be mason and whether I like his play or not I think I'm going to have to believe it.

Lawrence has been on the counter attack of ABR/Papaya so I'm guessing he isn't a mason (or he's pissed at them for outing themselves so quickly, but our three masons should be on the same page) Without a whole lot from Aimee or Bird I sit them on the middle fence as I can't say guilty or not because we haven't heard anything from them.

Sir Tornado has been all over the map when it comes to who's suspicious, who's not and why. I find him to be trying hard to fit in with the rest of the town but I do like his insight and at least content filled posts that have given me things to think about.

As for you theopor_COD, I feel a strong mason role coming from you as you've been pretty defensive of ABR and Papaya without claiming, it's good strategy or three scum that have this entire town completely messed up. I like your thought about Bird/Aimee, but (a reach here) why would they sign up for a game and than be gone for long if they were mason? I'm guessing town or mafia, but I'll wait for their posts before I form an opinion.

[ryan]

ABR, saying that the mafia would have figured you out by your play is a bogus reason. You could just as easily be pro town acting but a mason. That is the #1 reason I wasn't pleased with your claim, it seemed like a stupid time to say "Oh yeah I'm the 2nd mason and I'll tell you the third if you don't vote off whoever I say" That is why, even if you are a mason I don't like your play in this game. I found Papaya to be scummy for his lack of content, non scum looking and basically not doing anything. So if my attack on him looked scummy, it wasn't an intent but it WAS my intent to find non posters, non content givers and call them out, I ended up calling out a mason (alleged) and it's very possible that you ABR are going after a townie

[ryan]

I'm sorry, pro town players can't defend other players they believe to be pro town?

[ryan]

I ended up calling out a mason (alleged) and it's very possible that you ABR are going after a townie

You seem to doubt yourself?

The benefit of the doubt which was asked for by a few players, I'm being fair and doing so. Also do you and ABR still believe bird1111 to be scum? You both hopped on him right away at the beginning of the game

[ryan]

The benefit of the doubt which was asked for by a few players, I'm being fair and doing so. Also do you and ABR still believe bird1111 to be scum? You both hopped on him right away at the beginning of the game

Where ? Quote me.

I apologize as I misread the vote count early as A Papaya was on the bird1111 list and not you. I think it is funny that theopor_COD would rather see 4 people go before bird1111 when we only have 3 mafia, interesting comment there.

[ryan]

EBWOP - Four people ahead of Bird I'd rather see lynched. As for the beginning of the game them votes were random, surely you were aware of that?

I just asked a question about bird1111 and your thoughts as you had a random vote on him earlier and he has been non existent since. Just a question and yes I know what random voting is, but thanks.

[ryan]

bird1111 was somebody who's actually posted something, hence my question on him. As for me dropping a disbelief, I've dropped my vote from him but still find it possible he could be scum. Are you saying that there is NO chance he and ABR can be scum? Being closeminded with a few people not commenting/voting is not a good strategy

[ryan]

bird1111 was somebody who's actually posted something, hence my question on him. As for me dropping a disbelief, I've dropped my vote from him but still find it possible he could be scum. Are you saying that there is NO chance he and ABR can be scum? Being closeminded with a few people not commenting/voting is not a good strategy

Stop putting words in his mouth. He said, failing a counter-claim, he will believe we are masons.

Defend much? He said 4 people are more scummy than you, read the damn post. He's got 4 on his list and you aren't one of them.

[ryan]

Of course you are

[ryan]

Yes theopur, there is no chance ABR and Papaya can be scum, I shouldn't even put them in my thought process anymore, thanks for showing me that. I should only have You, Adel, Lawrence, Ripley, Sir Tornado, Aimee, Bird and Lowell in my sights from now on as there is no chance that Albert could have faked a roleclaim along with his scum buddy. I shall go over only those 7 people's posts from now on. Thank you so much again. Only a "thin air" claim could be positive. I shall start my re-read immediately

[ryan]

I have been agreeable since I lifted my vote from Papaya, but I also don't appreciate being told that somebody can't be something, so although I do believe in some of my post most of it is sarcasm, but thanks none the less

[ryan]

Wow, this whole page is exclusively run by us three. Let's shut up until Lawrencelot or Aimee make a post, k guys ?

Bird1111 would be another person that I'd like to hear from (as well as Lowell)

[ryan]

Actually that it isn't correct Albie. I PMed my scum-mate in Day instead of night session. Simply done, I broke the rules and got killed, nothing more nothing less.

[ryan]

Nice job of pulling out the W Adel, kudos to you!!!!!

[ryan]

Meh, so now there can't be any suspense at all in a lynch scene

As the other two have made obvious, Adel was the last scum. Which means that:

Lowell (Townie) has been lynched. Jalyn (Townie) is killed in the endgame. The Mafia (Adel, Sir Tornado and ryan) win!

WHOOPS, sorry Patrick

[ryan]

Setup was well done

Too many inactive players

Adel played a near perfect game

[ryan]

ABR did think the masons had this wrapped up for the town. We did get lucky early with some kills of important roles

[ryan]

ABR was playing too easily into our hands, and I suspected that he might just be playing along. Also, Ripley's read in the game seemed like something that would leave me enough room to escape. I acually considered lynching Jalyn instead of Ripley. Ripley just seemed really stable, and I thought that also made her predictable, at least in this game where I felt like we didn't have her full attention.

Experienced Players, & Mod. How well did Sir T and I do on days 2 & 3? Everytime I wanted him to do something he did. Every reaction I was counting on he game me. I don't think we could've coordinated better if we were PMing each other like mad. If I remember correctly this was the first game as scum for both of us. I we did an awfully fine job, especially as a newbie pair following a horrid day 1.
We weren't PMing each during the day though- especially since that was way ryan got modkilled. I reported ryan. He sent me a PM that appeared to be game related during day 1 about 24 hours before he was modkilled. I appeared pretty likely that it was game related, so I opened it and read it and immediately PM'd our Mod with a copy of the PM from ryan pasted inside of it. I told him I read it, and asked him if he could keep my name and the reason out of it, I also asked to have a voice in the punishment. I'm really against cheating. I told Patrick that I didn't have a clue about what the punishment would be or should be. We talked about it a little. Patrick made some decision I can't remember, like reporting ryan after the game and giving him a warning or something. That seemed good enough to me. For some reason I felt like I needed to reply to ryan, like to make sure he wouldn't PM Sir Tornado. I sent him a PM, and lied about reporting him to Patrick. I told him I wasn't going to report him.
I slept on the decision, and I read the thread about Stalling Champ and I decided that immediate action was called for. I started an IM conversation with Patrick, and he some advice from someone on Scumchat, and we agreed, apparently along with some of the people in Scumchat, that an Immediate Modkill & end of day was a good solution. As soon as end of day was announced I sent Sir Tornado a PM asking if he knew why ryan was modkilled, and I guessed that he probably didn't If he did than he was cheating with ryan. In Sir Tornado's reply he said that he didn't know why ryan was modkilled, and that was good enough for me to not suspect him of being scum in real life.

The lesson to other potential cheaters out there: think twice before trying to enlist the help of a vet in your schemes.

As soon as ryan was modkilled, he wasn't a dick or anything. I sent him a PM apologizing for turning him in, and told him that I was doing it because I thought it was the right thing to do, and that it wasn't anything personal. In his reply he pointed out that if I thought it was game related PM I shouldn't have

read

the PM. I hadn't considered that. Next time I'll just report that I received a suspect PM to someone who can access my inbox. Who would that person be, jeep or mith?

Based upon ryan's reaction upon being reported, I think he is a mature enough person to learn from a modkill and a warning. He didn't deny it, or fight it, or give some lame excuse. When he posted again in the thread (a no-no) he didn't taunt anyone or hassle me. In my opinion, he took the modkilling like a man.
There is a bit of an uproar in the forums about cheating and banning people. If anyone suggests that ryan should be banned for this, please let me know by PM. I want to quickly reply to anyone who seems to be engaging in a witch-hunt. If he does it again, then that would be worth at least talking about. For a one-time thing, I think the modkill and the public shame for someone who obviously adores the game will be enough. More than that would be overkill.

That being said, ryan did make a cryptic remark in another game that is still active. Had Jalyn read that remark I think she likely would've known that I was scum. After that game is over I'll link to the specific post in that game. It is pretty cryptic, and it is possible that it may have been accidental. I do not think it was accidental. I guess we can hash that out later if ryan doesn't feel like admitting to it now.

A question for everyone, including the peanut gallery: what should I have done differently. Should there be some "What should you do if..." stuff in the wiki? I looked around for some guidance while all of this was going on, and the best I could do was PM an IC (mneme) from my newbie game and ask him for advice. I followed the advice he game me pretty well, so if anyone thinks I made the right choices even as a total newbie, they should thank him.

MOVE ON ADEL. I made a mistake by PMing you, I was terminated from the game for it. But this cryptic message bullshit is just a bunch of crap. Quit looking like the "poor innocent" in this game. You imediately went to Patrick after I PMed you, I was terminated with no debate. Why you thought you should be on par with the mod in the punishment is a freakin joke. You aren't the mod, his decision IS the decision and whatever you think about cheaters is irrelevant. Why can't you let this go Adel? MOVE ALONG

[ryan]

Like you Patrick, I also think that Sir Tornado would have survived to win. The only difference would be that the lynched would be Adel, Lawrencelot, Jalyn and Aimee instead, imo.

Anyway, this was a most entertaining game. I'm running a Friends & Enemies Redux next week, I hope that all of you can make it

(ryan is banned from my games though

)

EXCUSE me?

[ryan]

Wow, I cant be in an ABR modded game? Sadness