because that name makes me giggle
Mini 451 - Totally Awesome Mafia, Game Over
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WIFOM = Wine in Front of Me
Is the poison in the wine in front of you or your enemy? Basically, whenever you get into the circular logic of thinking, "acting scummy would be doing X, or maybe scum is doing Y in order to intentionally look townie, or maybe he knows that we'll realize that and he'll really do X" - basically you get stuck in a loop.
I figured you were thinking "he is saying something to blatantly look townie, which means he is scum." But that's not what I'm doing here. Like I said, I have no reason to lie.
btw, I think you mean "lends the impression" or "leads to the impression". And what are "no votes"? You lost me there.-
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What's with the vote count at the top of the page INSIDE of Nekka-Lucifer's post? I haven't seen this type of modding before... the VC is not right, either, at least for me. Nabakov unvoted me, and now I believe Nekka has voted for me, so I am at 2.
Nekka-Lucifer - you said you were convinced I'm townie but you're still voting for me. I'm reasonably convinced you're simply a misguided newb (just like me) and you didn't mean anything by your first post, so:
unvote: Nekka-Lucifer
but still IGMEOY
We haven't heard anything from this guy, except for his intial random vote, so I'm going toVote: hjalltijust to get him talking.-
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After reading things over a few more times, I am going to put my vote back where it was.
vote: Nekka-Lucifer
Three reasons:
1. "No offense if yer a townie" - trying too hard to fit in - no one else felt "bad" about their random votes.
2. Pushing everyone to vote - what's the hurry? Short days favor the mafia.
3. This reason is going to sound odd, coming from me, but he accepted me as townie a little too quickly, don't you think? I was surprised when I first read his post that he had suddenly dropped all suspicion of me. I know he said that he accepted that I was probing for info, but the way things played out, it seems like he must have had inside information. I don't think I said anything worthy of townie confirmation.
The only other person who has pinged my scumdar at ALL (and this is very minor) is bobbyplump, for his "hope this doesn't make me look scummy to you" comment. Everyone else seems clean so far. Still waiting to hear more from hjallti and CTD though. My initial read of CTD is already pro-town though, because I am guessing he voted for Nekka-Lucifer for the same reason that I picked up on.-
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@hjallti
Sorry, I know it wasn't much real world time, but you and CTD were the only ones that hadn't contributed to the thread since your opening votes. My vote's no longer on you, if that matters.
@everyone
CTD and hjallti still aren't contributing much to the thread, though. Hopefully we'll get some input this morning. N-L is still looking scummy to me, especially his last few posts, but he is so newbish it could just be that. I don't think I'd be comfortable with a N-L lynch at this point, but we should still maintain the pressure to see what comes of it.
Just saw hjallti's post - wanting people to contribute to the game is GOOD, not BAD. This reads to me that he simply does not like being called out for lurking.FOS: Hjallti-
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OK, interesting mod commentary there. I still do not like the fact that Hjallti got defensive about being called out. Seems to me a pro-town player would just say, "I can't post on weekends" without adding the extraneous garbage about how it is "no good for the game and for the town" for people to ask others to contribute.
Also, he unvotes N-L and changes it to an FOS. This could easily be two scum here. He initially "random" voted N-L to create distance, but when pressure mounted he backed off his vote to "reevaluate". I'm very interested to see what Hjallti has to say later today or tomorrow. I wouldn't bet on this 2-scum scenario being true quite yet, I'm just saying it is possible.-
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I really don't know what to make of Nekka's last post. (116) If he really is scum, then that is just a sad, sorry excuse of a post. Basically, it is so scummy, it makes me think he's townie, because I haven't seen anything to make me think he's clever enough to pull off the "too scummy" bluff. Now I am using WIFOM, I know, so at this point, I really don't know what to do - I almost want to unvote him, but I don't see anyone else worthy of a vote at this point. I'm going to wait for others to evaluate before I do anything, but now I am less sure of Nekka's scumminess (ironically because he is too scummy)
The only way he really is scum is that he has simply given up and is posting absolute crap.-
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This is another post that looks incredibly scummy:
How does a vote and a "good morning" look scummy? How is that a "strong" scumtell? I think I was overthinking this with my WIFOM argument in my last post. If it stinks like a skunk, it's probably a skunk.Nekka-Lucifer wrote:
This seems scummish so I think I'llCrashTextDummie wrote:Good moring everyone.
Vote: Nekka-Lucifervote: CrashTextDummie
Not only that, he seems to have been reading but not posting (lurker perhaps) I'm not THAT familiar with what scum notifications are but I feel this is quite a strong one... Either that or it was just a mispost
I especially don't like the phrasing of "so I think I'll vote" like he's just tossing votes around willy nilly.-
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You don't? I can see how you could say "he looks suspicious, but I'm leaning towards newb" but to flat out say you don't suspect him any longer is just plain weird to me. Strike one.Hjallti wrote:Here is an analysis
First of all I think Nekka's behaviour is very newbie, so I wouldn't have a clue if it is bad town play or bad scum play. After reading through everything I don't suspect him any longer at this point.
Here's the thing - there's really no reason to get "upset" unless you are mafia and you feel that you have been found out despite following the rules and notifying the mod. In my experience, townies usually say, "Sorry I have been away!" But to get emotional about it seems like a scum reaction. Strike two.I got a little upset because I did follow the rules (saying that a absency should be PM'd to the Mod rather than being announced publicly), and already after 1 day playing I'm called to duty, while I already did post.
I wasn't "using" anything. Everyone had contributed except you and CTD, so I decided to vote one of you to spark a reaction. (and BOY is that working well)So the only scummy thing around so far, IMHO, is that someone using the difference between number of replies (reply 46, while mine was 17) and time to reply maybe, makes a strange comment only 20 hours! after my random vote:
Dude, look. We were barely out of the random voting stage. You are acting like having one vote on you is some kind of major insult. It's just 1 vote! This is overdefensiveness to the max. Do youmy point is that he clearly wants to point to my absence at a moment I had played in the last 24 hours!
vote: Off the Markreallyfeel my actions are scummy? Putting one vote on you to get you talking? That happens all the time, in every game I play/read! And you are reacting as if this is something only a scum would dare to do... again, very weird reaction. Overdefensiveness = Strike three.
unvote: Nekka-Lucifer
vote: Hjallti
I am more confident of your scumminess than his, since he could just be a nutty newbie. Another thing that is influencing this vote is something I am not sure it is cool to discuss. I won't say too much, but just think about the motivation behind post 112. I think that post is more likely if hjallti is scum.-
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Just to clarify my suspicions here:
This statement makes NO sense. If you were really a townie who believed I was scum, then you believe that INekka-Lucifer wrote: I respect Off the Mark seeing me as pro-town (which I am) but this post makes me think he's scumknowwho is pro-town and who else is scum. It is a complete contradiction to say you respect my opinion but you think I'm scum. If I was scum and you were town, my opinion should be garbage to you because all my suspicions would be fake.
This stinks of scum protecting scum, and I don't think I've ever seen it more obviously. Including the superfluous "I may have to check it over again" to try to make it look like he is honestly evaluating. Please.Nekka-Lucifer wrote: I think it was probably just a small pro-town mistake or a misinterpreted about people 'accusing' them on lurking, I think that's what it was.. I may have to check over it again-
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post 43, perhaps?
Off the Mark wrote: WIFOM = Wine in Front of Me
Is the poison in the wine in front of you or your enemy? Basically, whenever you get into the circular logic of thinking, "acting scummy would be doing X, or maybe scum is doing Y in order to intentionally look townie, or maybe he knows that we'll realize that and he'll really do X" - basically you get stuck in a loop.-
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I am equally certain that Nekka and Hjallti are scum. Lowell, at least seems to agree with me. HS and Nabakov think Lowell is suspicious for agreeing with very little content. I agree that does not look real good, but from my perspective, he is agreeing with my own pro-town argument, so it is hard for me to see him as scummy.
I find it a little odd that Stewie, HS, and Nabakov all posted without much of a response to my N-L & Hjallti scum duo theory. But they can't all be scum, heh, so I guess some of them feel I am grasping at straws. And I was so sure that Nekka's last post was going to be the nail in one of their coffins.
I guess we wait for N9V, Aimee, bobbyplump, and CTD to weigh in. I am willing to switch my vote to Nekka, if the town is still more comfortable with that lynch.-
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@Nabakov
No, my case against Hjallti does not at all rest on my belief that Nekka is scum. My case against Hjallti is outlined in post 129.
As I have said repeatedly, Nekka has often looked so scummy that I cannot believe he is actually scum. But his recent post, #131, cemented him as scum in my mind. How can you refute my argument about his statement of "I respect your opinion, but I think you are scum."? That just makes no sense at all for a townie to say. But it makes perfect sense for a newbie mafia to say. Don't forget, just because he is an utterly clueless newbie, it does not rule out the fact that he could be an utterly clueless newbie in the mafia.
If anything, my belief that Nekka is scum depends more on Hjallti being scum than the other way around. When I threw out the N-L / Hjallti theory the first time, I was not too confident at all... I just noted it as a possibility. Nekka's post 131 made me much more confident.-
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The vote count part of that post was not what I was referring to, which I think you know.Hjallti wrote:So I guess I have to respond to the baseball analogy of Off the Mark, which ends with saying that post 112 made it scummy to him... a vote count? WIDE 1
I'm struggling to see how your first sentence here relates to the other two, but anyway, this is more defense of Nekka, which I find interesting.On strike 1.
I read a game where ~n9v~ lost the game for town by being to overactive as a newbie, I guess the effect of this at the beginning unmotivated pressure on Nekka made him over defensive, as newbies tend to do. I see no proof in his posts that his action do something else than that. Wide 2
OK.On strike 2.
As being a newbie myself, and still getting adjusted to the pace of the game, it indeed was upsetting to me, that after 20 hours already I got this post, it would have been different if it occured on sunday and monday. wide 3
The strange part is, you seem to be the only one who thinks Nekka looks less scummy than me. Gee, I wonder why that is.On strike 3
You clearly didn't (want to?) get my point on voting you. I am not voting you for having attacked me, as I explained it was not OMGUS, I voted you for having put up the fog argument that I hadn't played in a long time. Your post was scummy objectively, and is the only scum part we have left if we believe Nekka is town.... Wide 4...
Funny you are saying this!! Since you keep misrepresenting my statements regarding my first vote for you. It was simply a vote to prod you into sharing some info, that's ALL. It had nothing to do with you "not playing in a long time". I didn't even look at the timestamps, I just wanted everyone to contribute.I think it is rather scummy to misphrase arguments and make them sound different...
With all that being said, I still find Nekka and Hjallti both equally scummy. But Stewie is right when he says Nekka's vote hopping needs to be addressed. Overall, I think Nekka has committed more scummy actions than Hjallti, so it makes sense he should be pressured. Post 131 makes me VERY comfortable putting my vote on Nekka, so:
unvote:
vote: Nekka-Lucifer
mod: Nekka is voting for me, not CrashTextDummie-
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Oh please - my analysis of your posts can be found throughout the entire thread. There's no need for me to compile one huge-ass post just to say the things I've already said. "Either he's lazy or he's mafia" is a false dichotomy. Post 133 is my analysis of your post 131, which is the main reason I find you so scummy.Nekka-Lucifer wrote:
I still don't see any 1post proof that I'm mafia.. Either he's extremely lazy (which we know he isn't) or he is the mafia... I don't know who with, could be Hjalti for all I know-
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OK here's the deal. Either I'm right or I'm wrong. Either way, the town benefits because we will find scum. If I'm right and Nekka is scum, then Hjallti and now possibly bobbyplump are probably scum too. If I'm wrong and Nekka is townie, then I know I am going to look very bad. So then you can lynch me or lynch the guys that agreed with me without saying much else, Lowell and Papaya.
What I'm trying to say is, even if I'm totally off-base, I think I've helped the town with this theory, even if it is just because I helped expose those who are agreeing with what turns out to be a bad idea.
I still stand by my analysis, though. NONE of the posters who have said they don't agree with me have addressed Nekka's ridiculous "I respect your opinion but I think you are scum" comment. They have no counter-argument for that because it is a dead giveaway.
I don't mean to "lead" the town to a certain lynch - I've just been a prolific poster throughout this game, so I tend to notice things first and then if people agree with the things I see, then yeah, it looks like I am the leader. But my Hjallti bandwagon didn't get very far and now I have 3 votes against me so my leadership hasn't been all that effective, apparently.
I'm going to try to step into the background for a bit, since it seems my scumhunting is making me appear suspicious to some. Let's see what others have to say.-
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I don't think it's hard evidence. We aren't going to get any hard evidence on Day 1. Day 1 lynches are almost always a "best guess" scenario. This is another reason I am suspicious of Nekka - he asked for "HARD PROOF" of Hjallti's scumminess. It's day 1! There's no such thing as "HARD PROOF".
My theory is just a theory - it's a best guess. In the vast majority of games, that's the best you can do on Day 1.-
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Hjallti wrote: By the way, you seem to be happy that the discussion revolves over you, me and Nekka.... you seem to be the one reverting all talk from the rest of us...
Hmph... can't please anybody around here.Nekka-Lucifer wrote: That's right... Steer the conversation away from me, you, and Hjalti...-
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*Sigh*... you still don't get it. Let me break it down.Nekka wrote: I said it because I respect you for saying I'm townie.... But for that, I feel that you are scum defending a townie so if he's lynched... you look good for defending him (me), as mafia normally defend other mafia to lower the odds of them being the mafia to be lynched and lose...
IF you really believe I am mafia, you would NOT respect my opinion about you. Everything you are saying above, after "But for that" has nothing to do with the fact that you are claiming to "respect" me. In fact, it makes it worse. Now you're saying you think I am fake-defending you in order to look good when you are lynched? And yet you respect me for that? Totally illogical. And yet that seems to be your M.O., so who knows.-
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Clearly he felt that "no offense if yer a townie" line was enough to justify his early vote. Then as things proceeded, he decided his initial suspicion was justified. It's not a hard concept to understand. I do think it's interesting that you keep pestering him, Nabakov.
If N-L turns out to be innocent, then we may have something to look into with CTD... but there are others will have to be accountable for their actions. (myself included)-
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So we have 2 people gone all week? If they are both pro-town, and if scum simply doesn't vote for scum, (assuming there are 3 scum) that leaves the town with only 7 possible votes. So we'd need to be unanimous in order to lynch a scum. That makes things quite difficult.
You don't sound too sure about that.Nekka-Lucifer wrote: and if you DO lynch me and I turn up innocent-
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bobbyplump's last post is quite interesting - it is actually pretty good analysis, but I am not sure if it is genuine or not. Given that post, it is hard to imagine that bobby and Hjallti are both scum. Possibilities:
A) Hjallti is town and bobby is scum and bobby is opportunistically using a change in heart by Hjallti to make him look suspicious.
B) Hjallti is scum, bobby is town and his arguments are genuine.
C) Both are town - I guess it is possible they both accepted N-L as town initially because of his newbishness. Seems rather unlikely though.
D) Both are scum, and bobby is putting on a good show to distance himself from Hjallti. This seems very unlikely because this would mean N-L is also scum and bobby is willing to go solo.
His FOS of Aimee at the bottom seems reasonable to me, too. I am now leaning more towards townie on bobby. I guess it is silly to break all this down at this point. Hopefully we'll be able to figure out more after the night.
I don't want to speculate about mafia actions too much, because that sets up a huge WIFOM cycle when they do/don't decide to follow my analysis. But I will just say that I would not be surprised to be their target tonight - and this is actually more likely if I am wrong than if I am right. If I'm right about a few suspects, it might seem too obvious to kill me off. If I'm wrong, the mafia can kill me off and make it look like I was right. Eh, this is major WIFOM here, I probably shouldn't even be posting it, but I'm sure the same argument would come up after the fact.-
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They did? Where? I haven't seen any defense of yourself at all, except for just saying "I'm townie" which doesn't count. You seemed to just give up, rather than defend yourself.Nekka-Lucifer wrote:Also, someone made a point about me defending myself...
Hjallti was accused of over-defensiveness a couple times, but I don't recall if you were.
I read through your other games and MAN you do seem like scum in every single one of them. Unfortunately, in none of the games do I see a death where your role is revealed. You managed to get modkilled in one game, though, for sending a PM during the day, that was cute. Still, even excusing the newbish posts, I think we've got enough evidence in this game that you seem like a newb mafia rather than a newb townie. Do you have any defense?-
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Geez you may as well have voted for him, because this looks equally suspicious. In fact, more so, if he comes up as town. Now it looks like you KNEW he would be town and thus were unwilling to cast the hammering vote because you knew you would look suspicious. Just when I thought you were leaning town too, now I don't know what to think.bobbyplump wrote: I'm not switching my vote for aformentioned reasons. <snip>
I'm not trying to push the lynch of a townie, but if it's inevitable, let's not waste another 9 pages (and god knows how many real life days).
Let's just hope he's scum for clarity's sake.-
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Good post, Hjallti. It does put you in a tough spot when you are under suspicion. Everything you do from then on is either "scummy" or "scum trying not to look scummy". I have been in that position too, and it stinks. We'll figure it out more on day 2. I have some ideas, but I don't want to muddy the waters at this point.-
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@Lowell
So, you're not suspicious of me, but you want to cast a vote for me simply so that there's another bandwagon. OK... what's your goal here? Do you think we need more discussion? I think the reason that discussion has "fizzled" is because most people are happy with where their votes are and Nekka is not posting much of a defense of himself. The only people who really have something to discuss at this point is you and Nabakov and the people who aren't here all week.
If you really want to generate discussion, I think you'll need to build a case against me. I am fine with that, if you want to go that direction, as it will certainly generate more discussion. But I think we might be better off moving on to day 2 at this point, simply to keep everyone interested in the game. When Day 1 lasts forever, you start getting lots of players replaced and then the game is not as good.
@N9V
That post looks pretty scummy, man. To me it looks like you are saying "If Nekka is town, lynch OtM and if he is scum, lynch Hjallti." You should know how bad it looks to be planning tomorrow's lynch at this point. It is sooo easy for scum to setup scenarios so that it becomes a no-lose situation for them the next day, especially since they already know what the result of today's lynch will be. Also, you are experienced enough so that you should know that the most likely scum are not the ones driving a wrong bandwagon, they are ones leaping on board a bad bandwagon. I started out driving the N-L bandwagon, but then I thought I had a clearer scumtell from Hjallti, so I started up a new one. Then N-L came along and convinced me he was the more likely scum, so I went back to my original suspicion.-
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Nekka, could you expand on this a little bit more? If you could just explain some of your motivations a little bit...Nekka-Lucifer wrote:Ok, I think I have officially given up... If everyone agrees to vote Off the Mark on day 2, then i will happily lynch myself...
Is this really a reason to hammer someone? Especially someone you didn't want to vote for just a couple posts back?Lowell wrote: I really hate concession speeches. Is this game actually that exhausting???-
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Off the Mark Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Well he did that 3 pages ago... I'm so very confused. I guess we need a mod call on Lowell's vote. When I look at Nekka's recent posts, I think, "How could he be scum? Either he IS just a confused newb or he's suddenly gotten very clever on us." But then I go back and read posts where he says
and I wonder what the hell I was thinking when I was unvoting him. If he's townie, he's not helping us. If he's scum, he takes all the attention away from the other scum. So in a way, he could be playing well!I'm convinced that OTM is scum!!! -- PS: I barely read your post.
vote: Nekka-Lucifer-
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Off the Mark Mafia Scum
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Well that sucks, and I know I'm going to look bad today. I knew something was wrong at the end of day 1. When N-L made his "I give up" speech and I asked him for his motivations, I was thinking he wouldn't post that (about wanting everyone to lynch me today) unless he was just misguided town.
I don't want to lead the town astray again today, so I'm not going to make a huge argument here. I'll just say I'm suspicious of the following: N9V, Hjallti, and Stewie. I'll lay out my reasons eventually, but I want to see what others think first.-
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Off the Mark Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1284
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Off the Mark Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1284
- Joined: May 3, 2007
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Off the Mark Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1284
- Joined: May 3, 2007
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Off the Mark Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1284
- Joined: May 3, 2007
@bobby
Vig = vigilante. A pro-town player who can kill at night. Tries to kill mafia or SK.
IGMEOY = "I've got my eye on you", sort of a small FOS.
I think the mod was just covering his bases. If he hadn't put in the delay, then Aimee and Highland Sage would be confirmed townies. However, Aimee has been playing quite cautiously, that is not a bad FOS. Heh, IGMEO: Aimee and Papaya-
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Off the Mark Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1284
- Joined: May 3, 2007
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Off the Mark Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1284
- Joined: May 3, 2007
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