Mini 443 - Tapioca Mafia - Game over!!

[pickemgenius]

vote: Coppélia

cause that é is a pain in the butt.

[pickemgenius]

In other news, I lost my first game here! Yay

Losing is totally unacceptable!!!

FOS:BBB

[pickemgenius]

EBWOP: I read that game, GOOD YOU LOST!!!!! Joo deserved it.

[pickemgenius]

unvote

vote:Shânba

a comes before e in the alphabet. Still random.

[pickemgenius]

a voice from the crowd is heard attacking those with accents!

for clearly targeting people with accents, no matter what he claims the reason is.

Why must everyone figure out my strategy so early.
(In my sweet John Heder voice) Dang it.

[pickemgenius]

Khel, I hardly count 2 votes as a wagon, and as a sidenote:
Why, you looking for one to join, hmmmm

unvote

vote: Khelvaster

[pickemgenius]

My vote was more of a way to get out of the random voting stage.

Khel still hasn't responded about himself, and I was disappointed when he posted last night.

[pickemgenius]

I'm looking at earwig, pickem, or fireball for scum.

Of those three, pickem seems strongest. Pickem went off against me only after Ripley did

Ripleys vote was random. Mine, not as random.

so he wouldn't be accused of starting a bw. At the same time, he implied that I was scum without much justification, most likely hoping to get off a quick lynch against me

I never said anything about quick lynching you, I voted you to get out of the random voting stage, sorry I can't control what other people do.

and since his comment was fairly short, he wouldn't have committed himself that much. Speaking of comittment, he's switched his vote around a suspiciously large number of times.

I don't take much stock in random voting.

[pickemgenius]

That's my point. You saw me as an easy target, but waited until someone else voted for me first before trying to instigate a bw.

I saw an opportunity to get out of random voting, and my vote (at the time) was the only one with any justification at all.

That is an illogical statement. Since you voted for me and provided some justification, no matter how bad that justification was, it's reasonable for us to believe you were intending to implicate me as being mafia.

I voted to evoke a response, and get out of random voting.

At the time

you seemed like mafia.

Any reasonable townie would want to quick-lynch someone who he thought was mafia. However, you said you were not out to quick-lynch me. Thus, your statement contradicts itself. If you were an honest townie, you wouldn't be contradicting yourself that badly.

I voted to evoke a response, and get out of random voting.
Call me unorthodox.
I like discussion, and my vote (along with others) has sparked that discussion, so we don't only get info for today, but find connections that we can use later on.
I'm still not out to quick lynch you, and I have never said I wanted to.

If I were a mafia, I'd be bouncing my vote around as many people as possible, and then if someone who I voted for was falsly accused of being mafia, I could switch my vote back to that person without seeming overly suspicious. However, since that wasn't happening, you decided to take advantage of Riley's random and go after me, since I pointed out a bw, and you thought you could exploit that statement.

I'm going to vote for you unless you have any defence to this--I don't see any at the moment, but it could just be me making a colossal error. I'll give you one chance.

If I were mafia= SCREAMS WIFOM (EWWWWW)
I'm not sure how I used a random vote to start a bw, when clearly he said it was random, and I've said it was to get out of random voting. And when I don't take stock in random voting (as you apparently do)

I would like to let you know, you are far from being lynched.

[pickemgenius]

Out of curiosity what is "all this WIFOM stuff?" More specifically, what is WIFOM?

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=WIFOM

Wine In Front Of Me.

That link explains it.

[pickemgenius]

[quote="beanbagboy"]

Earwig needs a

mod prod

, IMO.

You guys agree?[/quote


word up. I'm itching to hear from him, about everything that's happened.

[pickemgenius]

Wouldn't it be better to lynch someone who is showing mafia signs, like MightyFireball or d8p than someone who is silent? If he is silent, he will be in trouble with the mod. It's better not to suspect people if they haven't done anything. That's the game mod's duty, not the town mob's duty.

Speaking of silence, I notice that MightyFireball hasn't really said much about the accusations that have been levied against him--perhaps he is waiting for them to be forgotten?

FoS: MightyFireball

Lurking is a mafia sign, especially if he's made 11 posts in other games. Mighty has made 3 posts in other games, and has been gone for only a day.

Please outline on why you suspect d8p, when you defended him in a previous post.

It's in the towns interest to get discussion going, using any method available.

[pickemgenius]

He is saying this:

A. It is good to make posts that have lots of conent
B. It is worse to frequently post and not have content in any of your posts
C. The worst thing you could to is to make few posts and not have content in any of your posts.

A makes sense. B makes sense. C does not make sense.

A, B & C makes complete sense to me.

A. No duh.
B. No duh.
C. Actually, that is probably the worst thing you could do.

[pickemgenius]

I promise I'm actually re-reading... but another maybe 8 hours until a post. Currently up to page 5.

looking forward to some fresh analysis

[pickemgenius]

Making lots of useless and confusing posts is worse than making a small number of useless and confusing posts.

I guess I just like people posting rather than not.

We vary on opinions, but this is really taking us nowhere.

*truce* maybe more scum talk would be helpful instead?

[pickemgenius]

Brilliant analysis.
That was 6 1/2 pages in word, that's insane!
This is for sure something I will be referencing more then once.

Also, I understood everything written, very nice.

[pickemgenius]

I stopped looking for random bws, stopped using WIFOM arguments, to name two things, because you guys told me that they were either obviously scummy or obviously noobish--two things I wish to avoid being seen as. Would it have been better for me to have continued trying to bw people and trying to use WIFOM to justify things?

Would most people agree most of Day 1 is WIFOM, until somebody gets lynched, then we can go back and look for connections and what not,just certain things scream it louder then others.

[pickemgenius]

I responded just two posts later pointing out both the mistakes, but nobody takes a blind bit of notice, and beanbagboy, pickemgenius and Coppélia all chime in with comments about Earwig's

silence

, and the folly of lynching lurkers.

I did?

Lurking is a mafia sign, especially if he's made 11 posts in other games

[pickemgenius]

hmmm, ok.

[pickemgenius]

I'm still not sure what to think of any of whay you/MF has said, or what the point is.

I'll look it over again to see if I missed something (which I probably have)

[pickemgenius]

Whoa...That really was uncalled for. Did you notice how I said that I hadn't noticed that before? Check out that part I bolded. I take it I'm not alone--

nobody except Earwig noticed that until he posted that.

I had no reason to suspect d8p, but those messages could have been construed as being veiled communications by scum. I didn't randomly change to d8p--I changed because someone else presented a very convincing, yet simple, argument. Also, not that I am still sticking my vote on MightyFireball--d8p has the veiled communication and a small amount of lurkingness early-game going against him. MF has the insubstantial posts, which veiled his lurking, the needlessly confusing and ultimately contradictory arguments on page 6, and, finally this supposed collaboration.

If we find that MF is mafia, hopefuly a concerned vigilante will off d8p that night, and we will be left with just 1 scum to kill

.

I actually caught that WIFOM right away, nobody needed to point that out, it was to obvious.

Also I certainly hope that you aren't implying
1. You are a vig (if we have one)

What I certainly hope you are implying
1. You are the last scum, and just outed your team.

How do you know we only have 3 scum in the game also?

[pickemgenius]

Speaking of 10 pages...

Mod, could you put up a deadline on this? I want to be able to move on to day 2 sometime before June.

Are you serious?!?!?!?!
If you were town, you'd have no problem with this lasting a long time, because then we get more info from it.

A deadline could be set if I feel conversation to be lagging. 10 pages in 10 days does not seem slow enough to impose a deadline.

Thank you, 10 pages in 10 days IMO, is a crapload.

[pickemgenius]

I guess I'll comment on Aimee's post.

That is, until Khelvaster suddenly chimes in asking if the bandwagon shifted from shadyforce to pickemgenius. Em, no. There hadn’t even been a bandwagon, really. Pickemgenuis seems to notice this and places the first “real” vote, against Khelvaster.

yay!

Shadyforce then votes for pickemgenius saying he is “getting scummy vibes... but I can’t quite put my finger on it.” To me, this sounds like a gut suspicion, although there is nothing wrong with that. But he says pickem hasn’t posted much in the way of analysis or thoughts, and has been more slyly voting. I have to say I agree with this, and pickem in the next post doesn’t really defend himself, but tries to shift suspicion towards Khelvaster.

Can't defend against a gut, but most of my previous posts were random votes, and I don't take much stock in them.

Khelvaster then says he can only come on at certain times (definitely justified). He then says he was pointing out bandwagons, but won’t do it anymore, and also says that he is an “easy target” and brands the person who attacked him first to be scum. That is pickemgenius. Er, why the first person? Why not people who jumped on after? His next post accuses pickmegenius, Earwig or MightyFireBall. I don’t understand why FireBall was picked. Also the reasoning for pickem sucks. He was actually the first on the bandwagon, yet he accuses him of following Ripley. ‘Cept Ripley voted for you as a random vote, so technically pickem did really start the bandwagon properly, which pickem says in his next post. Khelvaster also accused pickem of vote hopping, something I hadn’t considered up to that point.

yep.
Random voting, don't hold much stock in votes there, that explains the hopping.

Ripley also points out that pickem pointed out Khelvaster’s actions on the next post, wheread Ripley’s initial vote was random. I have to say, I agree with this.

yep.

Khelvaster’s case becomes blurry here. He says that it was pickem’s initial plan to target Khelvaster because he was an easy target. Yes, pickemgenius just decided pre-game that he would target someone who could maybe be an easy-target, despite the fact that no one had posted yet, and decided he would start a bandgwaon on this ‘easy target’ based on a hypothetical random vote that may or may not be made. Yup, logical. Khelvaster also says the pickem could have bounced lots of votes against people in the random voting stage, so he could just go back to them if he wanted to. Except that vote hopping is a common mafia tactic, and can easily be identified. Khelvaster’s mistakes seem to be newbie orientated.

yep. bonus points for the sarcasm 8)
Don't take much stock (etc...)
The newbie;scum line is blurry.

Indeed, MightyFireBall agrees with what I said, and pickemgenius argues that Khelvaster’s point is WIFOM, a point that is hard to argue with. He also says he was voting to “evoke a response”, which he says (and I agree) definitely occurred. He also disagrees with the whole random vote idea, which I agree with.

yep.

Khelvaster then says it is better to lynch scummy people than silent people. MightyFireBall and d8P are named as scummy. Then, Khelvaster FoSes MightyFireBall for being silent. Um, a bit of an inconsistency, no? BBB doesn’t agree about MFB, but no reason is given, and pickem also emphasises that he now accuses d8P, yet defended him earlier. The inconsistencies are just growing.

yea.



Well, that was swell.

[pickemgenius]

That's why I said until I am convinced otherwise. What I mean is, assuming MightyFireball is scum, d8p is guilty until proven innocent. Assuming d8p is scum, Earwig is guilty until proven innocent. If something happened during the night to change my mind, that is possible. I guess what that statement really meant was that those three people are the three scummiest people in my view: MF is the scummiest, d8p is the second scummiest, earwig is the third scummiest. Until something happens to change my mind during the night, this is how I will continue to view them.

WHOA WHOA WHOA

You are "guilty" until proven innocent, as

everyone

is "guilty" until one of the scenarios below that I typed before typing this happen.

The only way to be 100% sure of anyone being "innocent" or scum, is
a. to be lynched
b. to get NK'ed

[pickemgenius]

@PickEM:Congrats on getting your Mafia Scum status! Also, I agree with what little you said there (most of it was quotes, you have to admit) so I'm putting you on my town list.

FoT (finger of town):Pickemgenius

w00t.

Yea, most of it was.

[pickemgenius]

Bye bye kabenon007!

Have a good time!


Hope the replacement is good!

[pickemgenius]

Hey Hungry!

Analyze this game!


Here's to hoping you're active!

[pickemgenius]

pickemgenius: Terse, but pretty solid. Little to say, but doesn't need to say that much. kind of a low post count, and not too many words, but he does pop in now and again, and stonewalled Khel's attack against him. I'm completely neutral here, but it's hard to say with so little of his arguments in evidence.

I had to look up terse at first.

terse

adjective
brief and to the point; effectively cut short; "a crisp retort"; "a response so curt as to be almost rude"; "the laconic reply; 'yes'"; "short and terse and easy to understand"

that describes me yea.

[pickemgenius]

Hmmmm.... I was looking at pickemgenius's posts, and I've noticed a few things about him. First, the only person he has really attacked throughout the whole game is Khelvaster. Also, he repeatedly said that he doesn't take stock in random voting. I'm not quite sure why he did that. It seems as though he was trying to clear himself of any suspicion regarding those random votes. This is fine, but he does it a total of four times. I'm thinking this is a little bit of overkill.

If you're wondering why I said I don't take much stock in random voting, 4 times, then it's basically so I don't say something different and confuse myself, or you guys.

If I changed votes four times in the random stages of the game, well; I like to mess around a bit before the action starts happening.


So that should cover either scenario, since I really wasn't clear on what point you wanted answered.

[pickemgenius]

Hey Patrick!

This is a pretty "meaty" game.

[pickemgenius]

Pickemgenius

- I hardly remember this guy in the game at all. Someone else described him as terse and brief I think it was, which seems accurate. Not many details in his posts. I'm not wild about the way he seems to focus alot of just Khelvaster, which could be a scumtell. There's nothing particularly overtly scummy about his posting though, so I'll say just slightlybad for now.

If you want another situation where I stay focused on one person basically the whole time i'll reference you to


Newbie 334 I replaced page 6.
The only two people I foucsed on were scum.
viewtopic.php?t=5095&postdays=0&postord ... &start=125

[pickemgenius]

2. He's a townie, but we get someone speedlynching him, then we lynch that person the next day. (win)

That's not neccessarily a win, as a townie can easily vote for him thinking he is scum (which for sure isn't a stretch of the imagination) and then you would lynch another townie. Eww.

Alright.

I guess I've put myself in this position. I am quite willing to claim here - I'd like to survive D1 if possible.

Explain, cause scum also wants to stay alive D1.

My appearant lurking is not If at least 1 or 2 would be kind enough to unvote, I will make it worth your while.

That just reads weird to me. Anyone else reading that funny?

Maybe it's just cause I got home from a Propagandhi concert, but that reads weird IMO.

[pickemgenius]

I was hoping to see someone do a clear scumtell, jump the gun, and lynch him.

Are you serious?
Cause you just practically eliminated that option.
A 1:1 scum/town trade isn't good for scum.
It'd be dumb in this size of game, especially with all the info we have, because then we could find connections and whatnot, which would be pretty easy IMO.

And how do we know scum won't hammer scum, to appear town?

[pickemgenius]

O.O Who am I voting for? How is.. lynching a townie win/win? That sounds like bizarre wording to me, Khel.

If I put a townie at lynch -1, and then someone else jumps in and lynches the townie, it would mean that whoever jumped in for a quicklynch was scum. Thus, we would have a definite scum for day 2.

Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.

You put it like only scum can hammer a townie.

3. Even if he's a townie and no one speedlynches him, we still got rid of a player that's not contributing anything, and is therefore no help to the town.

Is it just me, or did that seem really, really, really scummy?

I can understand where that line of thought comes from, but it is weird.


For the record:

Lynching townies ≠ good

[pickemgenius]

O.O Who am I voting for? How is.. lynching a townie win/win? That sounds like bizarre wording to me, Khel.

If I put a townie at lynch -1, and then someone else jumps in and lynches the townie, it would mean that whoever jumped in for a quicklynch was scum. Thus, we would have a definite scum for day 2.

Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.

You put it like only scum can hammer a townie.

If anyone really quickly jumped after he was at lynch -1 without giving him time to defend himself, that would definately not be in the townie's best interest, so we could conclude that person was scum.

You can't say someone who hammer's a townie=scum. Ever.

Scum can hammer townies, but townies can hammer townies quickly also.

I don't see anyone else here besides BBB and myself who have joined within the past month, so the newb factor is unlikely to apply. That would leave scum to hammer the townie.

Ummm, that's reading weird.
And doesn't make alot of sense.

If anyone would clarify that, please do.

[pickemgenius]

If anyone really quickly jumped after he was at lynch -1 without giving him time to defend himself, that would definately not be in the townie's best interest, so we could conclude that person was scum. I don't see anyone else here besides BBB and myself who have joined within the past month, so the newb factor is unlikely to apply. That would leave scum to hammer the townie.

Aha I know what to make of that 2nd part.


Since we're not new (like you say) that means we know its stupid for scum to quick hammer.


If that doesn't make sense to anyone ask.

[pickemgenius]

I am the vigilante. I'm pretty sure there's only one of me. I can prove I'm the vig, too. Give me a name to NK, and I will. I realize that I'll probably be NK'd as well, unless the doctor, if there is one, decides to protect me.

I've got a few things to say about this aswell (like holy crap right?)

WIFOM.
(insert other scenarios others have said here)
It's a pretty safe claim (insert nobody counter-claim here)


So overall, all anybody can do is take it at face value for now.
It's all we can do *right now*, and *if* he's lying, we lynch him.

On another note, EW since you have claimed, who is the most suspicious in your eyes, and who would you suggest we lynch?

[pickemgenius]

Question for Town: Should MFB claim in light of this idea? If we decide to get EW to vig him, which I'm not completely sold on. It was more of a proposal than what I wanted to do.

No.
I'm not sold on vigging MFB either.


Just my opinion, I could change my mind.

[pickemgenius]

I want to say something.

So here it is.

Why should we influence who EW vigs/doesn't vig?

Wouldn't it make sense that scum would likely be wanting him to vig a townie, and if we are all vocal about it, then they would be able to just chime in when someone suggests a townie vig, and that wouldn't be good.


Also, they could convince him vig a townie, and be the "leader" of the charge.

Also, they *could* choose to lead a charge against one of their own, hoping it would convince people they were town.


SOOO.. Overall, I trust EW to vig using his own mind, and if at anytime we find out he's lying about his claim, or anything from him, then we lynch him.


Maybe I'm thinking to much, but hell why not?

Also, I'm fine if people don't agree with this, andi'm very fine with hearing other peoples opinions on this, and whatnot.

[pickemgenius]

1.Why would he be trying to trick us by using a seriously flawed argument if he weren't scum?

2.If need be, I'll RC for you guys. It would be in everyone's benefit if I stay anonymous through the night, but if I'll be lynched otherwise, I don't have a choice.

3.Is there any other option for today?

1. A vig is a believable claim.
It's not 100% guaranteed that he is in fact, but all we can do (for now) is believe it.

2. You're not at L-1 right now so I wouldn't....
Again it's in the scums benefit to stay alive aswell.
You saying you want to stay anonymous isn't a RC.
Also it's really not a smart thing.

3.Maybe if you would present a case against somebody.
To me that appears that you want to look for a good BW to join up.

[pickemgenius]

well shit

unvote

[pickemgenius]

He could very well be lying.

Not to burst anybodys bubble, but you could be lying.

I'm currently just taking both of your guys' word, because the last thing I want to do is lynch a town power role. That wouldn't be fun at all.

If either of you are lying, we'll come after you. Nuff said.

[pickemgenius]

Sorry, but a townie's gotta keep his mind on a vote someday, right? =b Why not choose one you came to a conclusion before on, even though they claimed. It doesn't disprove any of their scummy acts in the past, eh?

It doesn't disprove any of their previous scumminess you're right.
But.
You've got two claimed power roles.
You don't want power roles lynched.
I agree, and believe EW moreso then Khel.
If we find out either of them are lying, then we lynch them.

I think that it's best to see if they both are truly what they say they are, and come to a better conclusion come day 2.

[pickemgenius]

That would be a scum for a cop tradeoff, one which is bad for the town.

Wait.

Town outnumbers the scum for sure, we know that (duh)

I'm not sure why they would why they would want a 1 for 1 trade off.


Anyone care to elaborate why they'd (scum) would want a 1 for 1 trade?


I'm honestly curious.

[pickemgenius]

That's what I thought.

[pickemgenius]

Heads up for everyone here, I know i've posted this in the Vacation thread already, but from June 20th-26th(ish) I will be on vacation.


95% I should have Internet access, just letting you know in case for some reason that doesn't happen =/

Don't need a replacement.

[pickemgenius]

well shit.

[pickemgenius]

(See, I told you I was gullible...)

QFT.


*hits self on head*


I had my vote on him page two.

I'm also interested in Khel's response to this aswell.


(I have a pretty good idea of what his reaction will be)

[pickemgenius]

I believe that was the hammer


I trust you make the right night kill choice.


*Assuming that was the hammer*

[pickemgenius]

umm ignore that


im a dumbass who miscounted badly

[pickemgenius]

I think Earwig is right, including his vote Khel has 4 votes. Soon to be 5 (see below me) HA! I just got you to say below me. But anyway.


And while we're on the Khel subject, he has posted in other games (I forget who mentioned this, but yea)

I of all people, realize that he's posted in other games.

Vote: Khelvaster

should've stuck with my page 2 suspicions.


I'm pretty sure you're back at L-2.

MOD: vote count please, thanks.

[pickemgenius]

unvote:

Umm.

Ok.

[pickemgenius]

EBWOP:
Just wondering how he can hammer himself at L-2 also.

[pickemgenius]

Shit. sorry for triple post.


EBWOP the EBWOP: When I had him voted he was at L-2, so how could he hammer himself?


Now he's back at L-3

[pickemgenius]

that's true.

more talk is never a bad thing.

[pickemgenius]

Well, I wake up to this.


It kinda sucks really.


I'm actually more inclined to believe who he outed, since it was done in haste, and pissed off ness.

I'm usually more honest when i'm mad.

[pickemgenius]

Sounds cool to me.
I can do that.

[pickemgenius]

Investigate- Aimee
Vig- Shanba?


Just throwing ideas out there.

[pickemgenius]

sounds cut and dry.

vote:d8p

[pickemgenius]

one sec.
Masons get guilty results when investigated?


anybody?

[pickemgenius]

If you are insane you still are a help to the town, because if you are it means that you can still investigate people, and if you get an innocent on someone you know they are scum, so you're power would still be of use.


This is of course if you are insane.

[pickemgenius]

well shit...

What news has you HJ?

[pickemgenius]

Here is what I got from JUST reading d8p's posts.

Ask if something is unclear.


d8p-

I'm going to re-earn my title and say that Aimee and Ripley are town, MF is scum and bbb is either scum or just doesn't read posts to the end.

/

Aimee wrote:
Shadyforce also says that bandwagonning can be beneficial for the town, and instead the bandwagon should be on a less active player. Myself, Earwig and d8P are named as candidates.


d8p in response-I have my only note against you here, Aimee.


/

Aimee wrote:
Beanbagboy then says he finds Khelvaster’s actions more newbish than scummy, and actually finds the people who targetted him more suspicious, which I agree with. He says that people are “overreacting”, and targets Coppélia as one of the people who jumped on the bandwagon without major reasoning.

d8p in response-This I thought was just mad. Four people had voted for MF at this stage, yet Coppélia was the one to point out the inconsistency-which-wasn't . Targetting her for lack of content is definitely noteworthy.


/


d8p top 5 suspects May 24.

Having said that, for me there are five main suspects. Setting questions of inexperience aside, in order of most suspicious to ...less :

BBB:(TOWN) for all the times he has just made stuff up about players. He clearly thinks he doesn't need to read. He has thrown all sorts of aspersions around and hasn't backed down when challenged. He has consistently misrepresented what other people have said about him and themselves. He has mixed up the chain of events to defend himself or his arguments. Kab said he thought he was overeager. Eager players read, imo.

Khel: has been flighty and inconsistent (defending then attacking me), hasn't defended himself properly on two occasions and seems to be under the impression other people should defend MF and me... against another player's gut.

MightyFireball(TOWN) and Earwig(TOWN): while both have responded to pressure and are more active, there still seems to be very little from Earwig in terms of content. I have to say that I find his "collaboration" allegation annoying.

Shanba: flighty, was very vague in disagreeing with my analysis of MF and BBB: "I think Mighty Fireball and Beanbagboy came out of the argument looking better than D8P", but has been consistent in pursuing Khel.


/


d8p Top Suspect list May 30:

BBB(TOWN): I find it difficult to be fair here, but I did overreact before.

Khel: I'm stuck in WIFOM land with him. I suppose it'd be more sensible to leave him be and see if he starts to smell more, but I'm reluctant to overlook his flightiness and inconsistency.

MFB(TOWN): has contributed a little since, but only once pressure had been applied by a large number of players. I know what Patrick means about his 26th post, and I'd go a little further: almost all his posts set off my scumdar. I realize he can't defend against that, of course, but I can't ignore it either.

Earwig(TOWN): has contributed nothing concrete since and has taken to lurking again. Sets off scumdar too, but less so (because he's posted far less?).

Shanba: has been consistent in attack on Khel, but also on me, apparently because of Khel's behaviour, though he says he'll post more. No idea.

So nothing conclusive or eyeopening from me, I'm afraid. Heads = MFB, tails = Earwig.

Vote: Earwig



/



After Khel "outing" his two scum buddies.

Wait, WHAT?

So, you're saying Shanba and Aimee aren't your scum buddies?



/




Khelvaster wrote:
On second thought, I could probably get banned for this...

d8p wrote:
Only if you really did turn in your fellow scum, and even then I think you'll be warned once.


/



Since my partner has hinted that she doesn't want to support me, vote: d8P


/



6 minutes later:


I meant he/she, of course



Sorry did this on notepad.

[pickemgenius]

KHELVASTER

I'm looking at earwig(town), pickem(town), or fireball(town) for scum.

Of those three, pickem seems strongest. Pickem went off against me only after Ripley did, so he wouldn't be accused of starting a bw. At the same time, he implied that I was scum without much justification, most likely hoping to get off a quick lynch against me, and since his comment was fairly short, he wouldn't have committed himself that much. Speaking of comittment, he's switched his vote around a suspiciously large number of times.



/



Khelvaster wrote:
I'm looking at earwig, pickem, or fireball for scum.

Of those three, pickem seems strongest. Pickem went off against me only after Ripley did


ME:Ripleys vote was random. Mine, not as random.


Khel:That's my point. You saw me as an easy target, but waited until someone else voted for me first before trying to instigate a bw.




/




Khelvaster wrote:
so he wouldn't be accused of starting a bw. At the same time, he implied that I was scum without much justification, most likely hoping to get off a quick lynch against me


Me:I never said anything about quick lynching you, I voted you to get out of the random voting stage, sorry I can't control what other people do.


Khel:That is an illogical statement. Since you voted for me and provided some justification, no matter how bad that justification was, it's reasonable for us to believe you were intending to implicate me as being mafia.

Any reasonable townie would want to quick-lynch someone who he thought was mafia. However, you said you were not out to quick-lynch me. Thus, your statement contradicts itself. If you were an honest townie, you wouldn't be contradicting yourself that badly.





/



Khel wrote:

and since his comment was fairly short, he wouldn't have committed himself that much. Speaking of comittment, he's switched his vote around a suspiciously large number of times.


ME:I don't take much stock in random voting.


Khel:If I were a mafia, I'd be bouncing my vote around as many people as possible, and then if someone who I voted for was falsly accused of being mafia, I could switch my vote back to that person without seeming overly suspicious. However, since that wasn't happening, you decided to take advantage of Riley's random and go after me, since I pointed out a bw, and you thought you could exploit that statement.

I'm going to vote for you unless you have any defence to this--I don't see any at the moment, but it could just be me making a colossal error. I'll give you one chance.



/



Mightyfireball seemed to have been going off pretty strongly as mafia, first making an all-out attack against me, then an all-out attack against d8p, but the fact that he supported pickem as not being scum makes him seem not as scummy to me.



/





Wouldn't it be better to lynch someone who is showing mafia signs, like MightyFireball or d8p than someone who is silent?




/



He goes after MFB, later BBB, later back to MFB.



/





Aimee did a massive analysis; she was probably tired out and slipped up carelessly. No need to persecute her--she was helping the town.




/




My agenda right now, until I am convinced otherwise, is a D1 lynching of MF, a D2 lynching of d8p, and a D3 lynching of Earwig.





/




Khels top 5 suspects May 24


BBB: for all the times he has just made stuff up about players. He clearly thinks he doesn't need to read. He has thrown all sorts of aspersions around and hasn't backed down when challenged. He has consistently misrepresented what other people have said about him and themselves. He has mixed up the chain of events to defend himself or his arguments. Kab said he thought he was overeager. Eager players read, imo.


I think Earwig slipped up here too. Nobody else had noticed the collaboration because they weren't thinking of you and MF as a team. However, there was one other person who knew the connection between you two--he was most likely looking for a way to distance himself from you two while, at the same time, not hammering the point away. The way he, after being a lurker for so long, suddenly picked out collaboration between two mafia members is suspicious, to say the least.



I don't see any problems with Shanba here. Just because he pursues me doesn't mean he can't suspect you as well.

SHanba said???:So one issue remains: experience. Is BBB's inexperience the driving force behind his play? Ditto for Khel.

unvote: MightyFireball, vote: beanbagboy
FoS: MightyFireball, Earwig and Shanba


Khel: What the hell? you unvoted MF, and then you FoS him? I don't really see any evidence against BBB--he hasn't done anything blatantly scummy. That only leads me to the conclusion that you are worried if we lynch MF and find him to be scum, that you will be next.



d8p, it seems you must have supported George Bush in the 2004 elections. You seem to believe anyone who changes their mind after listening to a logical argument is "flighty," and therefore is hiding something.


/





top 3 scummiest May 25:


1. MightyFireball
2. d8p
3. Earwig

that would have had the exact same meaning as saying that my agenda is a d1 MF lynch, d2 d8p lynch, and d3 earwig lynch, and that this is subject to change if any new information that suggest something else surfaces.




/




More with going on about MFB,d8p, EW.



/




Even more going on about MFB,d8p,EW.



/


More crap, but now its MFB,EW,d8p.


/




Good point Shanba--I figure if he's scum, we can get him tomorrow.



/



You know what? Fuck this game. I'm leaving. The other scum are Shanba and Aimee--go ahead and lynch them the next two days, or better yet, have EW vig one and lynch the other one. I'm out of here.



/



On second thought, I could probably get banned for this...

I wasn't thinking about metagaming like that. Look at aimee and shanba--they both look pro-town. I was saying that they were scum trying to get the mafia an advantage. I am sorry; I realize that what I did was exploitative of the game's rules. I didn't realize trying to misdirect townies would be bannable. I've confessed. Now can I leave the game with a clear conscience?




/



What is the day 1 page record? I take it we, as a mafia game, may end up winning it still. There is lots of room for debate on whom Earwig should lynch. I've cooled off from the slap in the face that hungryjoe gave to me. I'll stick around until my lynch. I am hoping that ectomancer doesn't get too messed up by what just happened. There are 2 more confirmed innocent townies, but there is also a confirmed cop and confirmed vig, so I'm not sure where this game is headed.


I see the now there are two confirmed townies, as an almost non-chalant way to make us think they are, it's totally shitty how WIFOM'y he was with his last few posts.

/





SO that's it basiclly for khel. Still did this in notepad, and if anything isn't clear, ask please.




Oh yeah, current suspicion list:


1. Aimee
2. Shanba
2a. elailai
4. Ripley
5. HJ

[pickemgenius]

1. Aimee-d8p spends most of the time analysing her posts, but really doesn't mention her badly in anyways. Her timeline can only make her town so long. On the EW bandwagon. I Don't like her Post 21

Earwig has a foolproof way of saying he is vig, even if he doesn't vig anyone in the night. He can claim mafia has a roleblocker, and that guy is blocking him every turn.

Exactly. He could claim he is getting roleblocked all the time, showing why he didn't kill anyone. This could in fact be because he is a member of the mafia.

d8P, I hope you understand you need to out your mason-buddy to have any chance of being believed.

Her post 27

Well, personally I won't believe the claim otherwise. Although at the same time, I would be reluctant for the masons to come out.

Her post 28



This is knowing what we know now of course.
She seemed reluctant to vote d8p out(as has been said before)
I'm really not ready to vote anybody yet.


For everyone who says it's weird that I focused on basically one person on Day 1(Khel), you can look at Newbie 334 where I replaced page 6, I stayed on one person (undo) basically the whole time, and he was scum.





2. Shanba- both d8p and Khel had him like 5th most suspicious, not much said badly about him from either d8p, or Khel.
I admit I like alot of his posts though, lots of good info.
3.Ripley- you seriously haven't done anything ridiculously scummy.
4.elailai-innocent from HJ investigation
5. HJ- pretty much a confirmed cop.

[pickemgenius]

This is a good time to note(again) I will be on vacation from June 20th-25th(ish)

I should have IE, but not a lot of time to post and whatnot, if I check in briefly and see something happening, I might post something really quick. I expect to be back late the 25th, so I should have time to do a full analysis when I get back.

[pickemgenius]

I think there was alot of pretty good talking going on during the page I missed.
I don't like the idea of a no lynch either.

My bigger/ones with quotes(that wouldn't work) posts were to see/show the lynched/known scums interactions with everyone during the time they were alive.

Waiting to hear Aimee's case against me.

I don't think i've been avoiding casting suspicions on other players really, and day 1 me on Khel the whole time basically was because he was OMGUS'ing me basically from the point I started suspecting him, and knowing my alignment I figured such blatant OMGUS wouldn't come from a town player, and sure enough he was scum.

[pickemgenius]

2) Pickemgenius

Khelvaster made an initial comment about bandwagons on page 2.

So, the bandwagon switched from Shady to pickem?

To this, Pickem wrote:

Khel, I hardly count 2 votes as a wagon, and as a sidenote:
Why, you looking for one to join, hmmmm

unvote

vote: Khelvaster

After reading, I actually find this suspicious. Khelvaster never said he

wanted

to join a bandwagon, he was just wondering where the bandwagons were moving. So overall this is a misinterpretation of Khelvaster, something I just picked up. My view here can be emphasised by the fact that Khelvaster says "I'm not looking for a bandwagon." I would say it was an "unhealthy interest in bandwagons" as Ripley put it. But Khelvaster never said he wanted to join one.

Wondering where the bandwagon was and asking where it has moved to implies like he wants to be on it in a subtle way.

After a bout of lurking, Shadyforce makes a good point, saying:

I don't know why, but I'm getting scummy vibes from pickem but I can't quite put my finger on it. He has posted a good few times, without actually contributing much by way of analysis or opinion. His posts have just been random or quiet votes. He quietly put a second "random" vote on Shanba, and later quietly puts a second on Khel. Then as the pressure rose on Khel over the next page or two, he kept his vote there while saying nothing, happy to be on the bandwagon without actually looking to be driving it.

It's scummy behaviour.

To which pickem replies:

My vote was more of a way to get out of the random voting stage.

Khel still hasn't responded about himself, and I was disappointed when he posted last night.

Personally, I agree with Shady here - Pickem seemed to be driving something without really driving it - a subtle way of leading a bandwagon early on day 1. Also, as we know Khelvaster is Mafia, it could be a way later in the game for pickem to justify how he is pro-town.

In fact, it is an argument that pickem has been using

.

I took full responsibility for the BW on Khel, I never denied I was leading it either.

italics part-

Could you show everyone an example where I say I was town because I was the Bandwagon leader of Khel. kthxbai.

He later gets into an sort of an argument with Khelvaster about all Khel's responses. His reasons seem to be that he was doing it to "evoke a response". To me, this seems to suggest he didn't find him scummy. Seeing as he evoked a response, why didn't he take off his vote? And he then says "Lurking is a mafia sign" even though he is lurking. Not only had he not posted much at that point, his posts had only some content (and he basically ignored all other issues, bar Khelvaster).

Blatant OMGUS from Khel(his reaction) made me keep my vote on him.

Overall, I find it scummy that pickem votes for Khelvaster and misinterprets him, and also doesn't focus on other issues that were occurring (he only discusses Khel in his posts, not d8P or anything else). I find this as scummy, and could be early distancing. His early play makes it difficult to read him - I myself said in my player analysis on page 8 that I hadn't "a clear opinion about him."

Heh, I was quite happy with my vote the whole time, and took note of certain things, just nobody Day 1 was scummier then Khel.

After my analysis, he makes a bizarre comment:

Would most people agree most of Day 1 is WIFOM, until somebody gets lynched, then we can go back and look for connections and what not,just certain things scream it louder then others.

On a side note, I have absolutely no idea what this means, seeing as most of day 1 is most certainly not WIFOM.

Perhaps this post shows strategy on his part - he already points to connections between players that can be drawn after lynching. It almost implies that once Khelvaster is lynched and is shown to be scum, he would look more town, according to his own strategy.

Nope, nobody knows anything (except scum) on Day 1, and until we get a lynch, we can't solidly point fingers at anybody for their interactions/lack of, with people.

That said, he does elicit some town tells. He says that deadlines are bad for the town (on page 10, when Khel asks for a deadline).

-Another reason I was quite happy with my vote on Khel.

Interestingly, MFB points out on Page 12 that pickem has only attacked Khelvaster the whole game. He also mentions something about random voting, which pickem talks about in his next post, completely ignoring the fact he has only attacked Khelvaster. In essense, it is lurking in plain sight - only providing opinions on one player, and seemingly ignoring all others. Also, it could be seen as a form of distancing.

-Lurking in plain sight.....hardly, I knew I was only attacking Khelvaster the whole time, as I've said before, until I find someone scummier, I leave my vote on.

After even more lurking, Patrick replaces and basically says he has no read on pickem, except that pickem focuses on only Khelvaster, something pickem says he does in other games and gives a reference. I still personally find it scummy.

- You find it scummy that I did this same exact thing in Newbie 334 and was a townie in that game?

Page 16, I find him to be pro-town. He argues his points well against crap logic from Khelvaster. Although, again, attention is heavily paid to Khel, and barely anyone else (although he does mention Earwig). However, after Earwig's claim, he just jumps in and says it is "safe" and pretty much dismisses him. He also says that he is against people influencing Earwig's choice, which could potentially be either pro or anti-town.

- You just said it, crap logic by Khel, I was still very happy with my vote on Khel.
- I believe Khel made a reference to it being a crap claim or something, and I said that a vig claim was believeable.

On Day 2, he basically makes no impact - just quickly leaves a vote on d8P and says almost nothing for the entirety of the day. This could easily be interpreted as scummy play - leaving no impact, but hiding away, as though he doesn't want to be linked in any way to d8P or Khelvaster. Indeed this is emphasised by his day 3 behaviour, where he makes badly formatted posts referring to the links of the dead players.

This shows how much emphasis he puts on links between the scum - something he seemed to say subtly early in the game he would not show

.

Day 2, hmm, what impact did you make again?

one sec.
Masons get guilty results when investigated?


anybody?

Hey I atleast contributed something during day 2, if not this basically solidified d8p as scum. So you can try and say i didn't say anything day 2, when it was really fast, and you said basically jack shit as well.

Are you seriously using badly formatted posts to call me scum?

Also if you wouldn't mind looking at my poorly formatted post about Khelvaster's interactions, you'll find me listed in it quite a bit.

Underlined- yes, looking for interactions between known scum and everyone else is bad .

Overall, in day 1, he basically makes a whole ton of non-content posts, and only focuses on Khelvaster. Even then, he basically says very little - just focussing on the "getting out of random voting" argument as a reason for his vote. He says nothing for the entire day, and because he was against Khelvaster, it could lead to him being seen as more pro-town. Day 2, again, no links to d8P, but shoves a blatant vote on the bandwagon. And day 3, he seems too to just jump against me, the person with the most suspicion early in day 3.

- Non content, more like constant stonewalling of Khel's craplogic Day 1.
- My vote on Khel (at first) was to get out of the random voting stage, his Blatant OMGUS on me, and craplogic solidified it.
- What links did anybody have with d8p on Day 2?
- Blatant vote on a bandwagon, are you serious?
WHY THE FUCK do you not vote somebody found guilty by an uncounterclaimed cop?
- Yeah, mainly I find you most suspicious (still). Your case seems a little OMGUS also.

I would say that pickem's behaviour could easily make him be the last scum. Unlike Shanba, I believe his posts in relation to Khelvaster (how he attacked him almost all day 1) can be seen as scummy, as they aren't actually very analytical, and don't really show why Khelvaster is scum. The way he said absolutely nothing about d8P also shows there could be a link between them - distancing.

It should therefore be obvious that I consider pickem to be the final scum in the game.

- I attacked Khelvaster all of day one, I think i've been fairly clear it's just my playstyle, and reference (at the time) my only completed game.
- Stonewalling craplogic, and Blatant OMGUS isn't hard to do really.
- d8p didn't say alot, besides mainly responding to your mega post.


- So to close it up, you think I'm scum because I only focused on Khel the first day, and in this same post where you attack me, you list quite a few reasons why I never moved my vote from Khel (craplogic, deadline)?

[pickemgenius]

Mod: Prod Ela, BM.

[pickemgenius]

Don't like a No-lynch here, in fact

Vote:Aimee

[pickemgenius]

Hmmm....

That kill makes little sense(besides the fact Ripley was widely accepted as town), but that's a little to WIFOM for me to think about why they didn't kill HJ, guess we'll have to see what he says, and then go from there again.

[pickemgenius]

I'd be good with either a BM, or Aimee bandwagon at this time, liking Aimee more ATM.

[pickemgenius]

I still would like to hear who HJ investigated beforw he leaves/ I vote you.

[pickemgenius]

Nobody has a "valid" case on anybody, so by your standards we shouldn't vote today(a.k.a No lynch), which is very anti-town.


I'll look over interactions between you and d8p/Khel, and make a decision (not vote) tonight, fuck I might even be willing to explain them.

The day shouldn't be rushed, but if we feel pretty good about the chances of somebody being scum, we can't just la-di-da around for 30 days.

In my eyes (

atleast for the time being

) its you or BM, we can lynch twice, I will reiterate

for the time being

, so I do feel alright with our current scenario.

[pickemgenius]

Khelvaster on Aimee-

As expected, Khelvaster makes yet another inconsistency. He says that d8P and MFB were 2 players he thought were scummy, but says he wasn’t implying they are scum.

The implication here was that they could be thought of as scum, backed up by the fact various people had mentioned suspicions that they were scum. I could have mentioned myself there too, but that would have seemed more than a little wierd. If you'll read my post again, you'll see I didn't mention my opinion about them in the phrase you're referring to at all.

A couple of people have mentioned a discrepency in how I acted in the first 3 pages to how I acted since. I stopped looking for random bws, stopped using WIFOM arguments, to name two things, because you guys told me that they were either obviously scummy or obviously noobish--two things I wish to avoid being seen as. Would it have been better for me to have continued trying to bw people and trying to use WIFOM to justify things?

Also, regarding my apparently incoherent posts, they are slightly more coherent than MF's posts, and since I was trying to explain what MF said,

Not an attack/defense on Aimee, but clearifies his actions.

Khelvaster, emm... I really don't know why you would use WIFOM to justify things like this. Er, can't you just analyse posts and stuff? That's what I do, anyway. What you did with MFB was good (albeit confusing), but the manner you did it in was, I believe, more successful than other attempts.

Yeah, I moved over to post analysis after WIFOM got such a bad reception. As I said before, I didn't realize how bad WIFOM was. You can expect me to use post analysis in this game and in every other game I participate in.

Again carifying things..

Aimee did a massive analysis; she was probably tired out and slipped up carelessly. No need to persecute her--she was helping the town.

Defense of you.

You know what? Fuck this game. I'm leaving. The other scum are Shanba and Aimee--go ahead and lynch them the next two days, or better yet, have EW vig one and lynch the other one. I'm out of here.

Says you are his scum buddy, then says that you are confirmed town, along with Shanba...







------- Interactions from Khel with Cop/Ela/BM---------

@Khel and MF- I'm still trying to work my way through this argument. I know this- that this quote:

Khelvaster, I think you misunderstood me here. While I think it is true that having fewer posts with no content is equivilant to or worse than having more posts with more content, that doesn't mean that I support posting without content.

makes no sense to me, even in Khelvaster's interpretation. A little clarification, please?

He is saying this:

A. It is good to make posts that have lots of conent
B. It is worse to frequently post and not have content in any of your posts
C. The worst thing you could to is to make few posts and not have content in any of your posts.

A makes sense. B makes sense. C does not make sense. Why should it be better to post 100 times with 90 of the posts being meaningless, instead of posting 10 times with 9 of the posts being meaningless? I thought that the less confusing and meaningless posts there are, the easier it makes it on townies to find mafia. I am new to forums, but even I can see that Mighty's argument is just nonsense.

If MF worded his arguments any more clearly, they'd be so much easier to pick apart. He obscures the fact that his argument is fundamentally flawed by putting all these confusing negatives and double negatives in his posts.

Btw, thanks for pointing out that this didn't make sense--I was so busy looking at his posting pattern that I didn't realize how internally inconcistant that individual post was.

clarifying shit.

I was attempting to express my disagreement with this belief by pointing out that a townie lurker does indeed have value simply by being town. In other words, I won't be voting for you or Earwig because of lurking. If I ever vote for either of you, it will be because I found your actions suspicious.

The correct thing to do is to replace EW if he doesn't respond to his modprod. If he responded to the modprod via PM and is staying silent as some sort of strategy, I'm guessing (from what everyone else has said) that he would be almost undeniably scum.

no defense/attacks..

No one cherry picked your posts. The very caveat you point to suggests that you have already closed your mind to other options- several players are telling you why this is a bad idea.

I put in the caveat that this was my agenda provided no information to the contrary showed up. If I had made a list saying,

my top 3 scummish at the moment
---
1. MightyFireball
2. d8p
3. Earwig

that would have had the exact same meaning as saying that my agenda is a d1 MF lynch, d2 d8p lynch, and d3 earwig lynch, and that this is subject to change if any new information that suggest something else surfaces.

clarifying shit...


d8p interactions with Aimee-

Wow, Aimee. Those are two of the finest posts I've ever seen. Though we disagree on a couple of points, you have said almost everything I have in my notes, and put them to shame, as I'd lost heart when I saw the town wasn't responding. I stopped at page 4.

I'm going to re-earn my title and say that Aimee and Ripley are town, MF is scum and bbb is either scum or just doesn't read posts to the end.

States you as town.

Then basically breaks down your mega post....


@ NOBODY

I guess that means we can continue.

I don't know, pickem. You could argue that, had he really outed his fellow scum, the mod wouldn't have allowed the game to continue. You could also argue that the mod might expect us to be believe that, and Khel did retract what he'd said, so it could be true after all. And other WIFOMing around.

So I think it's best to try to ignore what Khel said

.

see: bolded.

Since my partner has hinted that she doesn't want to support me,

vote: d8P

*need to see who hinted that she/he didn't want to support d8p.




d8p interactions with Cop/Ela/BM

Coppélia:
How do I hope the town will behave on D1? There's no easy answer, because the beauty of this game is that it's complex. Logically, I suppose. With a little randomness thrown in. I don't think every player has to throw their two cents onto every random vote or bw, but of course we need to be wary of falling into the group-think trap. Moderation is important, is all.I'm not dictating how other people should play, either - this discussion of tactics started when I'd been prodded for the second time even though I'd been posting on average once a real day.

Anyway, Antrax's article How to be a good townie puts it very well. I'm not suggesting you need to read it, I'm saying that I agree with his tactics.

I define something as valuable if it makes at least some of the town go "Hey, that's right". Till now, this post doesn't qualify.

carifying shit, says what town should do.

@Coppélia: Glad to hear it. And regarding Khel, I don’t know. The problem really is that Khel isn’t taking apart the attacks against him when they‘re made. Even vague insinuations or misinterpretations can become as influential as established facts if left to stew in the town subconscious for long enough. I’m not convinced that intercepting a pass is any use after the players have started the next play, especially if you don’t know who’s on your side.

Clarifying shit.

Small defenses/attacks on Cop....




To end all: Neither scum had much interaction with either Aimee, or Cop/Ela/BM.


*will look at Shanba tomorrow, even though at the top of my head I remember them both very weakly going after him, and saying he's low on the possible scum list*

[pickemgenius]

Hi HackerHuck!!


Fun read for sure.

[pickemgenius]

Oh Aimee, dear old Aimee.

Gets BM lynched quite easily to save her own ass for atleast another day.

Oh Aimee

Doesn't NK the cop until he gets an "innocent" on you (everyone new HH/HJ would investigate you that night)

Oh Aimee

Limited reactions with d8p & Khel.

Oh Aimee

How so much I want to vote for you scum.

Oh FOS: Aimee

[pickemgenius]

Oh Aimee, dear old Aimee.

Gets BM lynched quite easily to save her own ass for atleast another day.

Oh Aimee

Doesn't NK the cop until he gets an "innocent" on you (everyone new HH/HJ would investigate you that night)

Oh Aimee

Limited reactions with d8p & Khel.

Oh Aimee

How so much I want to vote for you scum.

Oh FOS: Aimee

This is pretty weak...

That was my poetic side.

It's all so clear

The chance to lynch

Sombody easy

So you took that chance

With BM so cheesy.

You left the cop one more night

So he could investigate you

Like we knew he might

And now you say you have a case on me

Will this spring up magically?

Oh Aimee Oh Aimee

I know it's true

Atleast i'm not scum

Just like you

Call this weak

I don't not care

I won't lose

Any hair

Oh Aimee Oh Aimee

I respect you much

You are scum

And lynch you I must

[pickemgenius]

Pickem: I have stated reasons for why I think Aimee is pro-town. What do you make of them, and can you give me any reason I should consider voting for you?

How retarded would it be for me to go bus somebody two days in a row? How is that even smart from a scum standpoint?

It's not.


You're arguing that I bussed my "supposed scumbuddies (don't exist)" for two straight days so I could leave myself alone. That's illogical, I've

NEVER

stated I was town from it

EVER

I've just hunted scum this whole game, and apparently that's not good enough.


I'm sorry I was right about Khel, if that makes me scum for finding him out then what is the definition of a townie?

Aimee I'll read your case on me again before I comment on it.


most of it looks like a load of shit/not solid or anything.



You've been getting by with doing nothing then posting something big, then yu get off the hook for fucking the whole game.


Then you got BM lynched, who is probably one of the easiest people on the site to get lynched, so I hope you feel happy about that.

[pickemgenius]

He later gets into an sort of an argument with Khelvaster about all Khel's responses. His reasons seem to be that he was doing it to "evoke a response". To me, this seems to suggest he didn't find him scummy. Seeing as he evoked a response, why didn't he take off his vote? And he then says "Lurking is a mafia sign" even though he is lurking. Not only had he not posted much at that point, his posts had only some content (and he basically ignored all other issues, bar Khelvaster).

Blatant OMGUS from Khel(his reaction) made me keep my vote on him.

I don't really agree with this. From reading his posts in isolation, he only briefly focuses on you, before quickly moving towards MightyFireBall. Quite a possible scum-link there.

Yeah, and he

NEVER

focused on you. He knew he wasn't going to get anywhere with his argument on me.

Overall, I find it scummy that pickem votes for Khelvaster and misinterprets him, and also doesn't focus on other issues that were occurring (he only discusses Khel in his posts, not d8P or anything else). I find this as scummy, and could be early distancing. His early play makes it difficult to read him - I myself said in my player analysis on page 8 that I hadn't "a clear opinion about him."

Heh, I was quite happy with my vote the whole time, and took note of certain things, just nobody Day 1 was scummier then Khel.

Just because you were happy with your vote doesn't mean you can't comment on other things. You didn't. I think this is scummy.[/quote]


Hey ummm, if I firmly believe I found scum (which I did FTW) there is no fucking way I'm looking for other scummy behavior that might deter attention from somebody that I believe is scum. I did not certain shit, just nothing scummier then Khel day 1. In essence, I went and hunted scum, I found scum, then I went after them more.

After my analysis, he makes a bizarre comment:

Would most people agree most of Day 1 is WIFOM, until somebody gets lynched, then we can go back and look for connections and what not,just certain things scream it louder then others.

On a side note, I have absolutely no idea what this means, seeing as most of day 1 is most certainly not WIFOM.

Perhaps this post shows strategy on his part - he already points to connections between players that can be drawn after lynching. It almost implies that once Khelvaster is lynched and is shown to be scum, he would look more town, according to his own strategy.

Nope, nobody knows anything (except scum) on Day 1, and until we get a lynch, we can't solidly point fingers at anybody for their interactions/lack of, with people.

I agree partially with the whole WIFOM thing, but connections are not everything - indeed, you admitted on Day 4 that there wasn't much to connect me with Khelvaster and d8P, yet your are now jumping out the gates against me.[/quote]

CONNECTIONS/LACK OF IS HOW YOU FIND OTHER MAFIA

You should fucking know that.

That said, he does elicit some town tells. He says that deadlines are bad for the town (on page 10, when Khel asks for a deadline).

-Another reason I was quite happy with my vote on Khel.

But why didn't you comment on anything else?[/quote]


Hey I found scum, I was certain about it, I don't want my attention diverted away to somebody I don't feel as strongly about.

Interestingly, MFB points out on Page 12 that pickem has only attacked Khelvaster the whole game. He also mentions something about random voting, which pickem talks about in his next post, completely ignoring the fact he has only attacked Khelvaster. In essense, it is lurking in plain sight - only providing opinions on one player, and seemingly ignoring all others. Also, it could be seen as a form of distancing.

-Lurking in plain sight.....hardly, I knew I was only attacking Khelvaster the whole time, as I've said before, until I find someone scummier, I leave my vote on.

You didn't comment about other people, and that is scummy. Focusing on Khelvaster, who just happened to be Mafia is not a town tell, but a scum tell.[/quote]


No it's not scummy.

And focusing on only one person is NOT scummy either.


IF I FEEL

A

IS SCUM THEN WHY THE FUCK DO I WANT TO PAY ATTENTION TO

B

WHO IS NOT AS LIKELY SCUM?

After even more lurking, Patrick replaces and basically says he has no read on pickem, except that pickem focuses on only Khelvaster, something pickem says he does in other games and gives a reference. I still personally find it scummy.

- You find it scummy that I did this same exact thing in Newbie 334 and was a townie in that game?

Yes. I do not see how this is town at all. In fact, I see it as very convenient.[/quote]

Hmm using gameplay argument to say someone is scum is very convenient, and scummy, because it just shows you don't have shit on me. It's weak, you know it, that's basically what this whole post of yours boils down to

GAMEPLAY.

Page 16, I find him to be pro-town. He argues his points well against crap logic from Khelvaster. Although, again, attention is heavily paid to Khel, and barely anyone else (although he does mention Earwig). However, after Earwig's claim, he just jumps in and says it is "safe" and pretty much dismisses him. He also says that he is against people influencing Earwig's choice, which could potentially be either pro or anti-town.

- You just said it, crap logic by Khel, I was still very happy with my vote on Khel.
- I believe Khel made a reference to it being a crap claim or something, and I said that a vig claim was believeable.

Yes, I know why you voted for Khelvaster. That is not an issue here. The issue is that you ignored absolutely everyone else.[/quote]


The fact is that you're saying the same thing about 1000 times, when it is clearly my playstyle. USING PLAYSTYLE ARGUMENT TO SAY SOMEBODY IS SCUM=SCUMMY.

On Day 2, he basically makes no impact - just quickly leaves a vote on d8P and says almost nothing for the entirety of the day. This could easily be interpreted as scummy play - leaving no impact, but hiding away, as though he doesn't want to be linked in any way to d8P or Khelvaster. Indeed this is emphasised by his day 3 behaviour, where he makes badly formatted posts referring to the links of the dead players.

This shows how much emphasis he puts on links between the scum - something he seemed to say subtly early in the game he would not show

.

Day 2, hmm, what impact did you make again?

one sec.
Masons get guilty results when investigated?

anybody?

Hey I atleast contributed something during day 2, if not this basically solidified d8p as scum. So you can try and say i didn't say anything day 2, when it was really fast, and you said basically jack shit as well.

Turning this back to me doesn't help. This was directed at you. Now only Shanba is left, who id make an impact Day 2, the fact you didn't is more telling, and definitely confirms my suspicions of you.

And no, I wouldn't say asking a completely moronic question such as that is particularly helpful at all.[/quote]


SO again, what'd you contribute?

JACK SHIT....

Are you seriously using badly formatted posts to call me scum?

Nope, but the fact that you have for the entirety of the game failed to create a proper case against me, even though I was at the top of your suspicion list is. Especially since almost everyone said they found your posts hard to read, yet you made no issues to correct them and re-affirm your case.[/qutoe]


YOU HAVEN'T MADE A PROPER CASE ON ME EITHER SO WHAT THE FUCK are you talking about.


Your

WHOLE

argument on me is based on gamestyle.

Overall, in day 1, he basically makes a whole ton of non-content posts, and only focuses on Khelvaster. Even then, he basically says very little - just focussing on the "getting out of random voting" argument as a reason for his vote. He says nothing for the entire day, and because he was against Khelvaster, it could lead to him being seen as more pro-town. Day 2, again, no links to d8P, but shoves a blatant vote on the bandwagon. And day 3, he seems too to just jump against me, the person with the most suspicion early in day 3.

- Non content, more like constant stonewalling of Khel's craplogic Day 1.
- My vote on Khel (at first) was to get out of the random voting stage, his Blatant OMGUS on me, and craplogic solidified it.
- What links did anybody have with d8p on Day 2?
- Blatant vote on a bandwagon, are you serious?
WHY THE FUCK do you not vote somebody found guilty by an uncounterclaimed cop?
- Yeah, mainly I find you most suspicious (still). Your case seems a little OMGUS also.

Your posts on Day 1 were pretty much contentless. It was just "Khel this, Khel that". You are doing it here as well - all I have heard in this post is "Khel's crap logic" and "Khel's blatant OMGUS", which is basically what you said Day 1 too.

YOU HAD

1

CONTENT post on day 1 also, and you'e been given a free fucking ride this whole game because of it.

I would say that pickem's behaviour could easily make him be the last scum. Unlike Shanba, I believe his posts in relation to Khelvaster (how he attacked him almost all day 1) can be seen as scummy, as they aren't actually very analytical, and don't really show why Khelvaster is scum. The way he said absolutely nothing about d8P also shows there could be a link between them - distancing.

It should therefore be obvious that I consider pickem to be the final scum in the game.

- I attacked Khelvaster all of day one, I think i've been fairly clear it's just my playstyle, and reference (at the time) my only completed game.
- Stonewalling craplogic, and Blatant OMGUS isn't hard to do really.
- d8p didn't say alot, besides mainly responding to your mega post.

- So to close it up, you think I'm scum because I only focused on Khel the first day, and in this same post where you attack me, you list quite a few reasons why I never moved my vote from Khel (craplogic, deadline)?[/quote]

Yes, we know you attacked Khelvaster. You didn't actualy say that much though - it was just blah blah blah all over again, through re-reads.

We know it is your playstyle - I don't see that as an important point, to be honest

. I would have used it early as a point for you, but against someone I think is pro-town (Shanba), I don't think it holds much merit at all.

Overall, reading back, I don't see this as a convincing defence at all. Note how he continues to emphasise again and again how he attacked Khelvaster - yet re-reading his posts showed me he didn't actually say much. I reaffirm my stance that pickem is definitely most likely to be the final Mafioso.[/quote]

SEE BOLD:



THEN WHY THE FUCK IS YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT ON ME ABOUT MY PLAYSTYLE?

[pickemgenius]

So do you think I am the final scum pickem?

It's possible, remembering some interactions between Shanba/d8p/Khel, is that they both didn't really go after him ever, and not alot of interaction.


Plus he laid the first vote down in this endgame situation.

Plus he coasted on the BM bandwagon.

Plus you didn't hammer right away.

[pickemgenius]

Aimee:


From a strictly and very very logical viewpoint IMO, if you were scum/any logical scum would have hammered me right away without adding another word, the fact that you didn't hammer me right away would be just the stupidest thing to do if you were scum, because hammering me would ensure a scum win.

From that I can logically say that it would have been the stupidest thing ever not to hammer me if you were scum, therefore you aren't scum because I don't think you're stupid.

[pickemgenius]

Also: He hasn't added shit and hasn't presented any sort of case against us. He's just let us go after each other while he sits back and laughs.


I'm town.
You're town.
Let's lynch Shanba.

Vote:Shanba

[pickemgenius]

Aimee: I want to say a few final things.

Look how Shanba just sat back and let us go after each other.

Look how he coasted on the BM bandwagon.


May your choice be the right one.

[pickemgenius]

Why on Day 3 did you want to get me lynched instead of having a no lynch?

I really really really believed you were scum.

And I really wanted to win right then, and I also figured since my vote was placed pretty close to deadline, that it was more of a "yo" vote.

[pickemgenius]

Hrm... I'm still undecided.

Would you be mad if I voted for you?

We would be equally mad.

[pickemgenius]

Gah, I'm still not 100% sure! I don't think either or you are scum, yet there is just something about you, pickem, that just makes me think you are the Godfather.

Pretty sure whoever I vote for, I will be wrong. Which isn't good.

Shanba left the cop in as WIFOM.

We all knew he would be investigating you that night, and after HJ/HH got an innocent(on you and BM) all this GF stuff is focused around you/BM, while he just sat back and let us go after each other.

[pickemgenius]

Gah, I'm still not 100% sure! I don't think either or you are scum, yet there is just something about you, pickem, that just makes me think you are the Godfather.

Pretty sure whoever I vote for, I will be wrong. Which isn't good.

Shanba left the cop in as WIFOM.

We all knew he would be investigating you that night, and after HJ/HH got an innocent(on you and BM) all this GF stuff is focused around you/BM, while he just sat back and let us go after each other.

But so were you. You didn't say one thing about the BM wagon until today when you said I got BM lynched to save my ass.

That's true.

BUT

I didn't just vote for BM right off the bat and then just sit there.

I was comfortable with BM because his playstyle always appears scummy to alot of people, and I felt pretty good about Cop/ela(not as much as Cop), to just figure that it was just BM being BM.

[pickemgenius]

Then why didn't you say anything?

I had 2 games that absolutely exploded during that time (both ongoing and have started to die down)


Open 35 Big Love Mafia
Mini 471

Those games just were a pain in my ass.

And I was to worried about going after you.

[pickemgenius]

Why worried about going after me?

And was it too hard to post a simple little one line message? It sounds like strategic lurking to me.

I thought you were scum, that's why I was going after you.


Strategic lurking????

Sorry I don't just vote somebody and sit there and don't do anything else really.


There were like 20 pages in Big Love in like 3 fucking days, sorry for not posting here.

[pickemgenius]

Why worried about going after me?

And was it too hard to post a simple little one line message? It sounds like strategic lurking to me.

I thought you were scum, that's why I was going after you.


Strategic lurking????

Sorry I don't just vote somebody and sit there and don't do anything else really.


There were like 20 pages in Big Love in like 3 fucking days, sorry for not posting here.

But you could have said something - voicing your displeasure would have been more town.

Also, if you were so busy with your other games, why didn't you say anything?

It probably would have been more helpful if I would have dropped by and said something.

This was just really low on the totem pole during that time.

Why didn't I say anything about the recent explosion of a few games?

I really don't fucking know, I guess I never really thought about it, or I was just stressed out, and quite flustered by other events.

heh i'm human I make mistakes. shit we all make mistakes.

[pickemgenius]

heh i'm human I make mistakes. shit we all make mistakes.

[pickemgenius]

I agree with Patrick's comments. I'll just add my congratulations to the scum and to Shanba in particular, and assure Aimee I don't blame her at all for her choice.

I <3 ma Ripley.

Also, as a side-note, why did everyone find me so scummy on days 3 and 4?!

Cause like I really didn't think it waS Shanba.......