433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[superstring91]

vote:southpaw

obviously trying to distract us.

oh, and

BEAT:bluehost

[superstring91]

thanks everyone. my birthday's been great.

i would also like to point out that there are two votes on other people [ie: me] its nothing to be alarmed about. if it were a 7 player game, it would draw more attention, but in a 12 player game, it doesnt matter that much.

[superstring91]

im not a huge fan of the wagon to 4
there are probably 3 scum, and if none have voted southpaw, would get a good quicklynch. i highly doubt that wagon will go anywhere, because giving up a scums position for the sake of an early lynch is flat out stupid

[superstring91]

ummm... you're still voting for Southpaw yourself...

i was still voting because as i said, i didnt think the wagon would go anywhere. and it hasnt. people have unvoted

I have to agree with Dodgy on this one, while promoting discussion at this point is what we need to do, liberal use of the

FOS

would be my preference to willy-nilly bandwagonning, especially to put someone halfway to lynch before we have had any kind of discussion at all seems reckless. Though I see him in no danger I am also going to remove my random vote

Unvote: Superstring91

until we have more discussion.

if the use of FOS's gets

too

liberal, they lose effectiveness. a vote puts more pressure on them as well. if there are multiple FOS's on me i dont care as much as if they were votes. if there are multiple votes on me, i feel pressure to defend myself

i have to agree with fonz here. voting is better than FOS
addendum: a vote is not better than an FOS if the vote may end the game, or otherwise cause an early lynch

[superstring91]

My vote was random. Why is it suspicious that I didn't unvote him?

By not unvoting, in effect you are saying that you support the wagon that formed after your random vote. Just because your vote was random when you put it on, doesn't mean that it stays that way; It should be viewed the same as the other contributors to the wagon. Pretending otherwise is sneaky.

in this case, i'll say that i supported this particular wagon. it did no harm, got discussion rolling, and did some reaction fishing as well. overall, it was a good wagon

[superstring91]

My opinion about the whole vote thing. I agree that it is dangerous to put someone at lynch -3, but I also think it unlikely that they would be quick lynched, because I would bet that at least 1 scum are on the wagon already, and no scum is going to quick lynch that early on day 1.

on page 2 day 1, L-3 is not dangerous at all. especially if scum is already on the wagon, and even if no scum is on the wagon. they will not risk giving themselves up.

[superstring91]

The Fonz wrote

But we had nothing to go on at that point. Nothing.

Exactly my point, so why start a band wagon at this point?

to start discussion so that we would be able to watch reactions, and actually have something to go on. if we never started a wagon, or voted at all for that matter, the game would stall.

Overreacting to harmless votes is just a classic scumtell. Classic.

Firstly, I think you are the one that is making a big thing of this. My comments were not over reacting at all, I was merely pointing out the obvious.
And secondly, What would you know about

Classic scumtells

?
Correct me if I'm wrong but you have only been playing for a couple of weeks and being privy to all members lists and their IP addresses, I can see that you havn't been a player before that date under a different name, so I ask again, are you really experienced enough to make such a statement?[/quote]

you have no clue what hes played outside MS, our outside the internet for that matter. now, i dont think its a

classic scumtell

but it is something to look at later on down the road.

[superstring91]

im not defending him at all.
im calling you out on attacking him for provoking discussion. like i said in my last post, the game would stall otherwise.

also: the wiki had a list of scumtells at one point. he may have read it.

[superstring91]

Quit it with your Scumtells and just play the game mate!

i have to agree. i dont think pointing out scumtells is a great idea right now keep those ideas to yourself, and maybe analyze them later.

There is a VERY good chance that we have 3 Scum in this game and my guess is that you've all be outed in day 1.
I think the 3 scum are The Fonz, Dasquian and superstring91.
All 3 of you know that I'm not scum and thats why you are all going in for the kill and to get people onside.
If however you do manage this, please town, remember the mob!
As for your scumtells The Fonz, I hope for your sake you are scum because if by small chance that youre not, youre very bad at reading this game.

the only reason you think the 3 of us are scum is because we agree with each other and not you.
i dont like that one bit

I can empathise with the level of paranoia you're now exhibiting, and I would say that's actually a town-tell if anything, or a conscientious act.

If you're town, calm down, take a step back. The mafia are

not

all going in for the kill, nor would it make much sense for us to do so if you were right about us, unless we were going for one of those "so obvious you have to discount it" mafia plays.

QFT

You're apparently a longtime vet, yet you're playing incredibly newbishly.

i half agree with this. i will wait to see more of your posts through the game to actually judge you on it though.
i also dont like you trying to attack fonz for lack of experience. even though you said that you werent trying to discredit him, it came off like you were.

[superstring91]

I think the bandwagon was an excellent idea, in order to create some discussion about players. Which it did, including about myself.

Sorry I haven't been more active. I had lots of work this week, but I should be able to post more this week.

do not help us find scum. I realize that everyone had times when they cannot participate as much, this I will not hold against you. The issue that I have is posting 2 sentences agreeing with an idea rather than providing content does nothing but keeping your name outside of the "lurker" discussion. Everyone needs to participate, and I realize it has been a couple days since my last contribution which is why I am attempting to do my part to contribute now that I have some time. Please, to facilitate discussion, feel free to pose any questions to me which you feel need answering. Please, if you haven't posted in a couple days take the time to provide us some content to continue evaluating that we can weed out the scum presence in this town.

at least he is not saying "i have nothing to add" that was a major problem with N316. there was one player who refused to agree with anyone, and just said that his ideas had been posted already. we cant read peoples minds [as much as we may try] while i agree that more content is better, their ideas may have been legitimatly posted already.

i, for one would rather have him say that than "my ideas were posted" and "not posting is my play style. eat it."

and, to end this post, i would like to hear from everyone else as well.
POST!

[superstring91]

Thats very true most of the time Southpaw but when everyone starts to presume such a thing is when the dinamics of the game can change and scum can do the most obvious things and people just say, nah, thats far too obvious.
Thats the fun of the game, you never know who is telling the truth or not, not for sure anyway.
:wink:

Isnt that what WIFOM bascially is? Doing things to throw others off and basically saying, if I were scum, I NEVER would have done that or been that obvious.

I think this is why people need to lynch scummy people, because then people will aviod scummy behaviors as much as possible. Most of you know if you have played with me before, that I do not buy the too scummy to be scum argument.

And to the scum tells discussion, most experienced players will try to aviod those scum tells, I think people need to be veiwed according to how they play, most people will exhibit certain traits when they are a certain role. I am not saying that there are not scum tells, I am just saying most people try to aviod them at all costs.

i agree 100% with this.

and most of the time, i dont buy too sscummy to be scum, but it would really depend on that players actions so far, and how they acted after the scummy actions

[superstring91]

What! A claim? With only 2 votes and no one else expressing much suspicions? Why dodgy would you claim, some of us can read into the posts and see what you are trying to say, just because the Fonz is attacking you does not mean that you should have claimed, it was a stupid place to claim, and are you being replaced? Is that what the last post comment was?

Umm... Wow, what the heck...

unvote:

the random

i have to agree wit this [especially "wow, what the heck"] and just because people are new to the site doesnt mean they cant read into it.

the way this game has gone, we have gotten a bit off track, i think.
arguing about menial things.

the most important thing right now is to hear from inactives.
then more discussio can ensue

@eletriar: youve said your ideas were posted. lots of ideas were posted. some very opposite, and extreme. which ideas do you agree with?

[superstring91]

i just have one last comment on dodgy's quit:
it was extremely immature, and i think he was being whiny, and condescending. i dont like the attitude of "i've been here longer, so i [and only i] know how to play it right."
so, i think the best thing to do with his role is to see how his replacement acts.

i think it's time to put the pressure on the inactives

vote: gorckat

[superstring91]

Portions of a deteted post have been deleted

i agree that the wiki shouldn't be a player's bible, but rather a utility for reference.

but you shouldnt judge someone based on their time on the site. i dont believe that really says much about their skill. nor does mere experience. someone could have played in more games than anyone else, and still not be as good as the newest player.

and you should expect attacks. how else are we going to weed scum out?
expect them to declare that they are scum?

[superstring91]

this is the oddest game ive ever played in.

ok, i think what we have to do now is move past the dodgy incident. lets get back to the game. weed out scum.

my vote is already out there on gorkcat. lets pressure the inactives.

[superstring91]

i think fonz was entirely right in saying what he said. [see below]

That said, reading over, it seems to me that the most defensive player is The Fonz.

But we had

nothing

to go on at that point. Nothing. Overreacting to harmless votes is just a classic scumtell. Classic. If everyone random votes, that doesn't elicit anything, then what are you basing your FOS on? Nothing, that's what.

i dont agree that it is "classic" scumtell, because our definition of scumtell needs to be constantly evolving, with our scum. so, i suppose it is classic. it is old. it may be true in newbie games, but probably not here.

i dont think that this post from fonz gives us much.
but, we will see after more discussion.

[superstring91]

thats ok, at least we know [somewhat] where you stand.
we still need gorkcat, though.
if i could put another vote on him, i would

[superstring91]

Hrmmm... I'm a little suspicious of superstring trying to get something going on Gorckat (not that I'm not a bit suspicious of the non-contributors, gorckat, thorgot in particular); it just seems to me like you're pushing it a bit hard. I agree with Fonzy (although i think he may be missing out rule number whatever it is, you know, the one about not mentioning... um... who was it again? i dont know, i think we weren't supposed to mention somebody in the thread. anyhow.). It would be nice to hear from gorckat though [/euphemism]. I'm buying Fonzy as town at the moment.

i realize that it doesn't mean much if he's not here, but if he has been reading, and not posting, then it does.

and yes, i am trying to get something going on gorkcat. im trying to get pressure on him. it was either him or thorgot. and i'll probably go for thorgot next.

all i'm trying to do with my votes right now is pressure. im not trying to get anyone lynched [yet]

[superstring91]

Okay, I'm retracting Dodgy's claim.

Objectively, he probably claimed to help the scum nail the doctor at night.

I need a Vote Count.

Also, I found Dasquian's fourth vote quite pro-town. It's a move that helps the town yet draws suspicion.

Isn't something that draws suspicion to a town player inherently anti-town?

not necesarilly. hammering draws attention, but in the end it is a good thing

[superstring91]

EBWODP: AH, he actually didn't delete that, it was in a post further up.

Um, not to be annoying, but could you clarify what 'EBWODP' means? I've not heard that one before.

its a typo of EBWOP
which means Edit By Way Of Post. so you can make an edit in the game, because we dont have the option of editing our posts

I'm not going to comment at my role at this time. I see no convincing reason to claim, so I'm not going to give the scum any role information.

I'm not buying that. You wrote:

Okay, I'm retracting Dodgy's claim.

Objectively, he probably claimed to help the scum nail the doctor at night.

Now, I suppose you can say that that meant 'to out the real doctor' or 'to get himself/his replacement nightkilled' but I just can't see how a retraction of a genuine claim here helps the town. I'd be all for lynching CES right now, in the absence of a power role claim. If you are a power role other than doctor, please claim and request protection. If you are town, you're either setting yourself up for a NK, or possibly worse, the scum playing WIFOM with you until the cows come home.

i agree with dasq that LAL is a good rule of thumb, but thats just it. its

a rule of thumb

it doesnt apply in every case. and [assuming dodgy/CES is lying] i dont know that it does here.

right now fonz is topping my scumlist.
it seems like he is being very opportunistic. someone replaces into a game where his predecessor made a claim in a hissy fit. he retracts the claim. fonz accuses him of lying, and pushes for LAL.

thorgot is next.
hes not giving many opinions.

id like to hear more from eletrair and kilm before i comment about them.
the same goes for CES

[superstring91]

fonz, i really dont think you should be pushing on CES so hard right now.
we've driven the discussion about him into the ground.
dodgy was an ass.
we should not lynch CES just because of what dodgy has done. we need to see how he acts.
that being said, i will stick by my scumlist and

vote:fonz

[superstring91]

I'm feeling a bit suspicious of superstring and fonzy. I know i said i bought Fonz as town before, but his recent behaviour has made me a bit more apprehensive of him. superstring seems overaggressive to me, its more of a gut feeling on my part, he seems a bit opportunistic to me. Eletrair and dom:inc both seem to be fence-sitting a bit (dom:inc hasn't commented for a while though).

i get the whole gut feeling thing, but do you have any reasoning why im suspicious?

i will be out of town tomorrow through sunday. i am caught up, and will catch up when i return.

[superstring91]

I'm feeling a bit suspicious of superstring and fonzy. I know i said i bought Fonz as town before, but his recent behaviour has made me a bit more apprehensive of him. superstring seems overaggressive to me, its more of a gut feeling on my part, he seems a bit opportunistic to me. Eletrair and dom:inc both seem to be fence-sitting a bit (dom:inc hasn't commented for a while though).

i get the whole gut feeling thing, but do you have any reasoning why im suspicious?

i will be out of town tomorrow through sunday. i am caught up, and will catch up when i return.

EBWOP

the question i was trying to ask was:
how am i opportunistic?

[superstring91]

please note that this post is me thinking out loud

i don't think we should lynch CES today

lets look at possibilites
1. he actually is a doc. [oh shit, we just lost a doc]
2. he is a townie [meh, we lynched a townie]
3. he is mafia [woohoo.]

i half would like to hear him claim.
lets look at his possible claims, and outcomes of said claim.
1. doc/not lynched
2. vanilla/lynched

the only way for him to live is if he claims doc. what if he is actually vanilla? we lost a townie, and we will lose more in the night, putting us in an unpleasant situation.

if he claims vanilla i am inclined to believe him. solely because of dodgy's actions.
that said, fonz said that we should hold him accountable for dodgy's actions.
i have a slightly different view on this:
we should analyze the difference between their posts.
like if someone replaces someone scummy and then is himself more town-like, i would suspect him as scum more than i would as town.

i would rather lynch someone scummy than lynch someone based on LAL, especially in this case, where we don't know a lot about him.

we should let him claim, and then watch his posts.

[superstring91]

if he claims, the only way for him to live is if he claims doc.. because if he claims townie [even if he really is a townie] he'll be lynched on the basis of LAL.

i realize that we can afford a mislynch right now, but i would much rather lynch scum.

i dont mind a claim from CES, but lets wait for a bit. at least until we hear from thorgot.

[superstring91]

FOS:CES

hes replaced into a game and hasnt really done much.
id like to hear more of your opinions, CES.
also, note that the fos will turn into a vote if necessary.

[superstring91]

i'll be gone for the weekend.
i'll get caught up upon my return

[superstring91]

kilm is at the top of my list right now.
along with ces

kilm is echoing fonz, and not giving a whole lot of content.

ces just isn't giving content

id like to see pressure on them, and the one with the most votes presently is kilm

so,

vote:kilmenator

[superstring91]

i don't have a ton to add right now.

im gonna vote for CES though.
[*]he replaced for dodgy[who was scummy beyond belief]
[*]he barely posted at all
[*]his last post was may 30 which was a new vote. only a new vote


i know i have been posting intermitantly, which is not normal for me, and i hate to leave games hanging.

i will be going on vacation on wednesday for 9 days. i will have essentially no internet[and thus, no mafia for that time] i will make sure i leave with all my suspicions aired, and a satisfactory vote.

[superstring91]

oops, i forgot to vote

vote:CES

[superstring91]

alright, i'm back. my vacation was a little longer than i expected. i can effectively do a full post tonight, but will tomorrow evening.

i will respond to this though;

1) Superstring thinks Dodgy was scummy beyond belief, which is not accurate in my opinion. Superstring tacks on lurking reasons, which is an ok reason to vote, except that it no longer applies because I'm not lurking and because CES just abandoned a newbie game he's modding and therefore I don't think the lurking can be concluded to bear on his alignment in the least.

first, of course it's not accurate in your opinion: YOU"RE BLOODY REPLACING HIM!

secondly, before i left, you were not here. but you are now, so i won't use lurking as a reason to vote you

i am going to leave my vote on until tomorrow, when i have

thoroughly

reviewed what i have missed

[superstring91]

hi everyone
sorry i havent checked in yet.
i hadnt noticed that D2 had started.

firstly, i totally support the massclaim
secondly, as it is my turn to claim, i am a vanilla townie

thirdly,

I am vanilla town. When I posted earlier about my PM getting deleted, I totally forgot about the vanilla PM being posted in the initial mod post. This is why I was concerned that my claim would be indistinguishable from mafia, because I was concerned they would all claim vanilla town too.

i understand your worries here, but i don't think scum would claim vanilla. they would claim a power role. discrediting the real power role, and playing the rest of the game in their position.

[superstring91]

For the record, guessing at what the scum will claim is probably the purest form of WIFOM.

well, of course.

im just guessing what scum would claim from my experience as scum.
of course, there are occasions where it is more beneficial to claim vanilla.
claiming a power role usually works best when there is a lot of confusion in the town, or when roles are not revealed upon death.

i suppose that in this scenario here and now, claiming vanilla would be most beneficial.

but then you play the game of guessing what, and how many, roles the mod put in.

if you can effectively guess how many vanilla players there are, you can just do a count, and know that X number of people are vanilla, and X+1 claimed vanilla. hmm. someone's lying. which one is the scummiest?

but then scum would just suggest alternate setups that benefit them


damn you wifom