Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[Bert]

What do y'all think...yea I just noticed that it ended and Aronis is in it

I am slow...4 days late mind u

[Bert]

Lmao

[Bert]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=37613

Aronis scum game just ended

Meta time guys

Interesting

I hate you. Now I'll get lynched, because of something totally unrelated to this game.

How is that totally unrelated

[Bert]

Why are you mad when you won that game?

[Bert]

Ffery talk plz you scumbag

[Bert]

Why is it Ffery that u haven't tried to gather and process thoughts with Nacho so u 2 can work together

:/ :/

One more chance or I shall park my vote

Vote: Selkies

I also still think Aronis is town after looking briefly at the completed Jester game

[Bert]

OK. Well I have dug into this game as far as Bert can dig in, as far as Day 1 is concerned.

I feel the whole neighborhood is town-ish, especially Aronis after looking at the discrepancies in that scum game I linked to. I had some worries earlier in D2 and at the end of D1 - was trying to decide whether he was more Yiley-1429 Newbie-past or myself-1462-past-mini...but those worries are resolved for now. I feel IK is *probably* town, gives me mathcam/halfpint vibes every which way...

I actually think if there's scum in the neighborhood, it's probably sneaky Muffin. Especially when I think about how he hasn't really done anything of note other than paint a broad-based case on you (Ffery hydra). He seemed to just say "hey guys, Ross and Aronis wagons are town, so ain't touching unless I gotta at deadline.' Other than that, he has been rather mute. However, what gives me some hesitation is that they are in a neighborhood...HOWEVER, Aronis commented on how the neighborhood has been mostly quiet lately anyway...so................. but my main issue is

he did not seem particularly interested in discussing why Ross OR Aronis are town

I also feel like Muffin should look into what i'm doing and ask me stuff, you know, if he really wanted to find out what alignment I am. But nooooooooooo.... it would also help if you know Muffin he could form a decent scum read too. DIATRIBE OVER!

Now, Cabd is just really town and I don't even know why but I have wanted to call him town like all game. A few days ago I saw a post in this game and was like ugh Cabd please don't gambit again, but whatever it doesn't matter lol. still town IMO. At least, even if he's not super active, he's writing about things that at least look important and to the point. Whoever said that his productivity (or lack thereof) is a scumtell is just wrong wrong wrong. What I really want to know if why he put his vote on Ffery to start today. How was that a viable play for reactions or whatever he was looking for? An immediate jump after creating some doubt at the end of D1 on the Ffery-hydra, and then a jump off just like that.

So.... probs

gut

Town <Cabddd, IK, Aronis arizona Brony>

not so town <McMuffin>

Next post coming up after snack time is a post about notscience cos he is worrying me a lil bit. Also starting to turn a little on that GF read, I think...I'll post why shortly

[Bert]

Nacho stop sneezing and join me in singing beast of burden

[Bert]

aww you are sick? =[ sry to hear frat broski

and i dont play ur side of the baseball field so it doesnt matter my platonic love, but my ego is still crushed :C

[Bert]

Why is cabd town to you

very unimpressed cos i will triple vote you if u dont explain busser

SSK is just weird, idk, ive wanted to lynch him in every past game ive been in with him.

hes being too clear in his posts here is my problem with him, for an SSK lurker person. like he is not posting a ton of incomprehensible crap this game with master blaster type reasoned votes. so that was the basis for my scumread. but i also gave him negative points that i shouldnt have, for his disappearing after a strong start. that is something that does not dictate his alignment at all.

so SSK: lean scum for me. *shrug*

[Bert]

what are u implying???

dont put words in my mouth!

don't put words in my mouth scumbag

p-edit: son of a nacho......

[Bert]

its snowing here so school is cancelled today, and probably for tomorrow so i wont have to wake up at 7 probably wheeeeeeeeeeeeee

who knew that the threat of snow the THREAT can cause a day to be canceled the night before, then confirmed in the morning for snow that melts in 2 hours. such is life here

[Bert]

Jesus I am beginning to raise cain

let me place a vote

Vote: SSK

it's the sweetest taste

these are the sweetest days

p-edit: even redstone and nasa and stuff are all out today lol it is a great day

[Bert]

6. notscience King Kenny
7. The Goodfather**
8. Nachomamma8 kabooooom

Katsuki probably town unless it gets down to PoE maybe. Being a bert-like hindrance, except more [don’t laugh] calm yet crazy. He has the power to lynch obvtown and be a danger to town but he seems town overall. Full of obscure ideas, but always in the spotlight is Katsuki. Sticking votes back and forth and crud. So read: LEAN TOWN

so three more chickens to hatch before we can feed a hungry child

[Bert]

I'm not great at VC analysis, but i'll give it a shot in the morning if i have the time before my doctors appointment. Assuming i haven't been lynched by then.

the purpose for me is not seeing how less he has listed scumreads or how he has read scum, but rather how he's not calling people just "simply town" or summat. his stances don't really change. he goes back to lurking after promising to do a VC analysis which he says he's "not great at."

his justifications for reads don't make sense, and that leads me to notscience.

and the innocence of asking "what can neighborhoods do?" "ugh i dont know how to read hydras" is a little...weird. but what's oddest is he doesn't really push his reads. like he did nothing after his vote on Katsuki that signals he actually BELIEVES in that read. He's still maintaining that he thinks that judging players based on playstyle (which is scummiest, which is least scummy) works, which is ABYSMAL.

i think he has the potential to be a factor in pushing stuff he believes in, but deep down i wonder if he's just thsi type of player and I'm the one lynching him cos his playstyle/actions are scummy as all.

The question is "Is it more town or scum, that he doesn't care how his reads are being perceived, hence his sticking to it and how he arrived at em?"

so that is why I don't really wanna have him alive. NULL-LEAN SCUM

GF
IK
You (but it's kinda close)
Maybe Selkies

someone asked you to explain and two days ago u said you'd get back to it later but you didn't so please explain kthx

u r really null, i feel you backed off everyone and are coasting now which worries me a TON boy, y arent u making sure your reads are compatible with other people's cuz...

[Bert]

i am not a chicken to be hatched

it's not your choice, it's for people responsible for the egg

you are a chicken supreme

[Bert]

all i can say about the last person nacho is that nacho at least his reads kinda look good. maybe not thoughtful, but idk you would think he would try to misrep a cabd post or something, to try to see what happens, idk. most likely lazy (which isnt alignemtn indicative) and town

all i gotta say is i wanna see him focus on his highest priorities which are sorting out ffery, cabd, but it's a good dsign that he is not really taking too much time to sort out the newer/less familiar players that dnot appear to be super difficult to read (although maybe sneaky scum of course they could be)

that is my first effort in reading nacho in a long as poop time so booooooooo you

null-town

[Bert]

1. MafiaSSK* - 135 ( seemingly blindly accepts a case on katsuki), 166 (another blind acceptance of a selkies lynch), 231 (gets convinced by selkies of a muffin lynch) 236 and 914 (defends aronis the first time, then jumps on the lynch)

over 100 plus posts with almost no content, multiple vote shifts with little to no justification except for blindly accepting other arguments. 270 is the only semblance of scumhunting

SSK is one of my scum reads

it's ok nacho this is the post he meant

idk nacho u dont seem too geared for surviving long in this game... so why havent u mentioned meta yet on anyone other than ssk the one u r voting, huh nacho huh?

DO NACHOS EXIST IN HEAVEN, MOTHER NACHO?

[Bert]

And nacho doesn't have me read as town?

Maybe he is scum.

there is a limit on how much research i can do to find out from the past and this game that you read people who don't read you as town as scum

y/n

[Bert]

hey nacho i learned what rekt means last night i am so proud

#rekt

i learned what yolo was after the super bowl where students in seattle celebrated and yelled YOLO all the time after their win

[Bert]

ffery you never smile

have you smiled since a lifetime ago, like srsly

[Bert]

Bert why do you think I'm scum

Do you want me to cry

aww sorry but POE

ure not town enough plus u have been like full of no back-and-forths with people and like u still havent gone about explaining ur reads or tried to pressure those reads

like i know how much u dont do cases but u havent tried to convey anything meaningful today so dont cry <3

we dont wanna make u cry, we wanna make you buy

we break, we cry! grind someone into the ground pl0x so i feel better about u kthx tia

[Bert]

EBWOP: notscience plz comment on current wagons ASAP

u skeered of implicating ur teammates huh? lets see that

waffle with a list of reads plz and lets be SENSITIVE <33333333

[Bert]

katsuki you realize that your role is to obey Nacho's orders to vote SSK right?

[Bert]

Woo something I actually get!

Bert I'll bring you a nice wall when the snowpocalypse hits in a few days and I have all the time in the world

your lifespan in this game isn't that long sorry

[Bert]

@Aronis: SSK, Selkies for sure

Last one is harder, still slight scumread on Goodfather - getting Tiershift past game vibes in his explanations - I may be wrong on Katsuki or notscience

[Bert]

He wants u to explain don't be coy

[Bert]

Y is cabd town, ffery?

[Bert]

i have him as town because of how he's interacting with you too!!

Y didn't u say dat earlier instead of hiding in ur mancave

[Bert]

Stop questioning your own manhood brother

That's like saying you gotta take a tinkle instead of go to the broom

[Bert]

I've been more active cos I wanna make Nati proud

Otherwise my past games have been way worse than this

But y'all still townreadin me that's dope

[Bert]

What do you think

[Bert]

Katsuki we gotta get serious here

SERIOUS are you ready to get serious

[Bert]

Ffery why is Cabd starting to worry you

[Bert]

Thoughts on Goodfather's reactions to his/her wagon?

[Bert]

Fine. Orc, why is Cabd starting to annoy you

[Bert]

I repeat, why is Cabd starting to worry you or your hydra buddy?

[Bert]

Ooh looks like Ffery talked to you and now you are backtracking about that worry

Interesting.

[Bert]

So, about SSK, whatcha thinkin man

[Bert]

scumreading you two cos Ffery isn't pushing cases like I expect her to. lack of conviction? she can take control of the game and circumstances but isn't? very unimpressive, votes don't look decent?

meta dives and observations really do nothing to advance the game state? need I go further? I'm not reading your hydra through you...but yes basically not town enough, not even close

ssk looks like too easy a vote, and i am still having a hard time believing his day 1 play could be scum

and your vote on Aronis earlier in this game wasn't too easy?

[Bert]

um its a response to when ffery was like "ppl haev been giving me feedback privately in the past about how im too observation-based" yada-yada earlier on D1 here I think, so "im probably gonna change my approach"

cos i said shes not really doing much and is kinda just there, and that was her response

problem is i dont know how observations in this game have really helped us out at all, and the only meta provided was kinda not useful, at least not moreso than stuff she could do

plus when cabd was like "ffery u need to be rly rly town right now," it didn't lead her to step up or anything

even the opening votes of the day (two wagons now) haven't been enough

you wanted to know why im scumreading her, thats it

[Bert]

i guess here are my only remnants of anything i can provide other than gut: if ure that interested <3

Spoiler:

Maybe I underestimated the influence that other people's reads have on you. I was expecting you to filter it some more and process your own reads at the same time.

I asked myself if you've been convincing about your "scumread" wagons. The answer was no...I mean, I felt you were locked in during Open 534 replacement period (past game). You gave a reads list within THREE hours of replacing in - with TOWN, SCUM, NULL, etc.

what you didn't do here was have your actions (voting a scumread) follow what you apparently felt about others. You didn't explore Goodfather further despite empty promises, you asked for reasoning on the Aronis read but didn't show concentration/focus on Aronis.

I also feel your only two 'past scumreads' are the only people who had a reasonable chance of being lynched in the fairly recent past. Until we probed you last-minute, you would probably have gone into Night 1 without us having a sort of sense of direction from you. I can't remember many past completed games where this happened with you-town (not Newbie 1429, not Open 534). Might have happened in AA, but you and Nat were leaders there and a huge presence - heck, you LED the Brian Wagon D1. That was no bravado. I don't feel you have used your meta or persuasion powers to your advantage in this game.

/rant over, and no I don't expect you to be lynched today, but that vote is a wake-up call and I'm gonna lead out a vote on you D2 if things don't change real soon.

Bert

Unvote

Vote: Selkies

Not presenting your reads in clear sight...AH I guess I'm not surprised and I shouldn't be.

Anyways, I do give you some kudos for saying how a REAL interactive game with Ross TRUMPS the past meta. At the very least, I expect some "strength of my townreads" thing from you before the end of the day. We're not expecting you to catch EVERYONE by the end of the day...

You basically are claiming you have Aronis as scum but have stayed off that wagon.... I don't know, that bothers me and I can't emphasize it enough - at some point, thoughts about Aronis HAVE to come forth from you, is that unreasonable???

What town players have you found in this game??

I had Aronis and Ross both as scum. That's up in the air right now. This game has my full attention while I work through that.

Umm...ffery you know you never made it clear you ever were reading Aronis-scum...

You asked Cabd for his reasoning, and you mentioned how you wanted to look into Aronis more because you think Cabd's town. Aronis seemed more like a potential option to look into, but nothing more than that - were you being purposely ambiguous????.... This makes me wonder if you're really thinking this game through from a townie mindset.

Hesitancy you're showing is one thing I can understand, but tacking on an "in case it isn't clear, we're reading Aronis (!) and Ross" as scum. Basically, both options aka both main wagons.

That said, I actually will post a reads list sometime today.

I'd still like for you to talk about your Aronis read

If Cabd's town, and I think he probably is, I want to put some weight on his Aronis read. But, I wish he'd put more reasoning down. I'm also looking at Ross and maybe Goodfather. But, my Goodfather issue is mostly because his vote has been really sticky in the face of most of his concerns about us getting dog-eared.

My scum reads have fallen apart.

I want to get together with Orcinus if possible to see what he thinks, but I think it's going to come down to my vote decision today. How long are you going to be around? I want to review some stuff and see what I can sift from the null section of my pile.

While we're on the Ffery topic, this sounds so invented... "my reads fell apart" Another one of those lovely statements you can make to try to sound town.

It sounds almost like in 1436 (past game) where you were like "I've gone over things a million times in my head, and I've flopped back and forth for N number of times."

[Bert]

ure not accusing me of anything?

what bullshit?

why is there an invisible barrier protecting you from scrutiny?

it's stuff like this, like u say there is a barrier for cabd, but there is a barrier for you too

like earlier ffery was like "sigh i miss when i was easier to read or whatever" or when she was like "bert, whenever we are both alive, u r always gonna think im scum cos of paranoia"

^barrier

[Bert]

productive:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

It's down to 3 hours.

@Yiley ?

@Nacho, I really don't grasp your almost-town read on bulba.

Town - Beginner, Windblown, Bert (because GiF mostly but also a little because Bert)
Not So Town - Karnage, Nacho, Bulba, Yiley, caled

Was hoping to move at least 2 more to the town pile before the Day ends. Not happening.

Vote: caled

forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=32441&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=21899&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go

SUPER PRODUCTIVE:

Of course somebody is scum. It's not obvious who atm and I just (mostly for my own benefit) talked through the pros and cons of everyone but Jason.

Mutley is at times distrssingly quiet.

Bert inherited the scummiest looking slot from the early game, IMO.

JLMK...I dunno. Your point about him not seeing my post about Jason is likely true. And he is reflexive as all hell.

And Jason is nigh unreadable. And I should consider how much my scumread was affected by letting him get away in Newbie 1389.

I initially backtracked on bestwillcui because I thought that I'd probably be able to get a better read of Bert if he weren't under immediate suspicion.

I think I indicated in my first actual reads list that I had the slot at null based on Bert's early posts, and that given his posts were coming off so town I should probably just call him town.

I do keep going back to look at some of bestwillcui's posts and interactions, but it's really difficult when you can't question the person who made the posts. Throwing the posts out completely isn't good, but neither is ignoring the new slot inhabitant's overall impression either.

I try to give replacing-in players a chance to make their own way with the slot and role.

I'm extremely annoyed with Bert because I feel like I'm being held to an impossible standard and he would hate it if the tables were turned. But, I keep seeing flashes of town motivation here and there, and I won't ignore that.

JKLM, I really can't sort his motivation any more. He's very reflexive, at least wrt to Jason. And if he's not being actively opportunistic in his direction switches, he's extremely easily swayed.

Mutley's been an almost non-presence. I liked that he reconsidered JKLM, and I don't see why he would have removed that vote if he were scum. But, if there is someone who is floating/lurking through this game, it's him.

[Bert]

^Straight, concise, to the point - look in thoes ISOs of 534, 1429, 1415. There is productivity. Even Dixon hill past game - you sorted out people very flexibly, but yet productively in that you GOT meta reads done, you sorted them out, you made them KNOWN and CLEAR about what you think of people

that is not too high of a pedestal to stand you on.

yes and we promptly threatened to kill you, remember that?

huh, when what where?

[Bert]

ok i get what u mean

well tbf i didnt take cabd's "ill kill you if you keep bringing up a bullshit case/worry about me" seriously

it was more of a soft crumb if u know what i mean golly <3 like he has crumbed quite a few times which is stuff he does often regardless of alignment or whtaever so like i took that with a grain of salt so alarm bells dont go a-ringin all day long

[Bert]

Really tired but this is my final post for tonight - I'll forget about this post tomorrow...but this is where I am at after a long night of my stupidity-induced postings...

TOWN:

Cabd
Aronis

LEAN TOWN:

Idiotking
Nachomamma8
notscience (divided about which pile to put him in, but arrived at this one after much deliberation)

NULL-TOWN:

Katsuki

NULL

The Goodfather

NULL-SCUM

zMuffinMan

LEAN SCUM

Selkies
SSK

Muffin's play here isn't quite like VisCon 1523 past game as town. I think he's the likeliest in the neighborhood to be scum, if there is scum in it. I look at the way he approaches me, as a barometer, and there is absolutely zero interaction with me for the better part of this game. I'm pretty easy for him to sort according to that VisCon past game...this should not require turning cartwheels. Instead, there's doubt and not much else. Empty.

I'm having reservations about Goodfather, but it's actually mostly because I talked myself out of TierShift in a past game completed (283 uPick Micro) after hearing his responses, and I really wanted to caution myself on not letting myself be manipulated by some calm suck-up responses. That aside, I think his responses are alright.

Katsuki and IdiotKing are the real wild cards here - unfamiliar people, especially, and I see what IK is doing but it doesn't really scream town. But I feel a teeny bit of towniness in some of the reactions from when I approached him/her about his/her playstyle and scum/townreads.

And Nacho, you can never underestimate him.

[Bert]

D1, I was unsure of things, the early phases really caught me off guard and I was put on the defensive, so I sort of panicked and just ended up making things worse, so I tried to coast and survive, which didn't really work. Then once we lynched Ross, I went back and skimmed through the game again, in the meantime I completed and won my first game on here. And I tried to start d2 very aggressively, confidently, and with nothing to lose and so far it's worked.

When you ask me to explain it, lots of self-doubt comes in though about that read.

It's always suspicious to change styles mid-game. There are parts of what he/she is doing today that remind me of my own first scumgame where I suddenly started being logical and stuff on D2. So there's lots of self-doubt there about this read where I instinctively want to tread carefully.

It's easy to convince me that Aronis is scum, logically. But with all the discussion about "oh he has been coached," it's an awkward time to change playstyles between nights (that's really suspicious) when scum have daytalk anyway. It's going to garner more suspicion than before, and if he/she survived D1 and all that momentum wasn't enough, what's to say that continuing that scummy play that doesn't stand out as much after a while will lead to death D2? Why change what worked, when there are people like Katsuki being just as scummy where Aronis can hide behind that? Aronis's lynch seems long overdue, and in his/her mindset I don't see the need to change a playstyle between days when it looks so...easy to attack via coaching theories.

I'm biased right now because Ffery-dra really bothers me. Ugh.

If we were scum, one of you or Nacho would be dead. I don't know how to pull off another Newbie 1436 yet, and the old one will never work again.

This does not look good, btw ffery. Total WIFOM.

I had Aronis and Ross both as scum. That's up in the air right now. This game has my full attention while I work through that.

Umm...ffery you know you never made it clear you ever were reading Aronis-scum...

You asked Cabd for his reasoning, and you mentioned how you wanted to look into Aronis more because you think Cabd's town. Aronis seemed more like a potential option to look into, but nothing more than that - were you being purposely ambiguous????.... This makes me wonder if you're really thinking this game through from a townie mindset.

Another reason I think/thought Aronis is town because I'm biased against Ffery and she pretended to have scumread Aronis earlier in the game after she had started to vote Ross + Aronis as competing wagons at that time.

That, and I think his/her play has been way too scatterbrained compared to that scumgame he/she played to be scum.

/end bad argument.

But, more worries are I am super wary about how she/he hasn't pushed players all game really, all votes feel like copies of other people's cases, yes he/she could have been coached through this, and the "lynch me see if I care" thing could be easily faked. Today, she/he seems to be playing to "impress" or "appear town," rather than actually scumhunt.

I just talked myself through this and I kinda wanna vote Aronis now. I was going with gut and put him/her there, but sometimes scum is the goddamn butler.

I've been trying to look at what team makes sense with Ffery, but that may be a bad approach.

Also, there were points at which Aronis just shut down and refused to engage with us, like when Aronis was like "ugh I don't wanna talk anymore, no one listens to me anymore (pouting)." Struck me as just incredibly frustrated town who doesn't know how to impact game states. So far today, the pattern remains - short posts.

but yeah, I looked at Aronis's play in that Jester nightless, and was like DUDE this Aronis played the newb card damn well. Aronis was so much more hyperactive and reactive in that game, but here Aronis is so...sullen. and the beginning of the game, which people have said is scummy, he/she actually looked like he/she was trying to scumhunt.

Unlike 292, where each post looked loose and fluffy and off-kilter. So the playstyle change COULD be due to Jester now being used for meta purposes. Earlier I looked and the impression I get is town, but as you know from what I did at the end of D1, I waffle about Aronis a lot.

I actually wanted him/her dead at the end of D1...

[Bert]

EBWOP: that stuff about the Ross-Aronis wagons makes no sense, so please excuse the messiness of that post. I think I just made my most waffly post of the game so far.

[Bert]

Muffin's play here isn't quite like VisCon 1523 past game as town

i'm in lazy mode

i haven't put any work into this game for a while and i don't have many reads that i'm all that confident in

i'm not really interacting with anyone at the moment, soooooooo i don't know why you care about me not interacting with you

maybe i'll start reading stuff tomorrow night when i get home

Um what cos u hve said I'm a scumread during and since Day 1 and even asked nacho why he is townreading me

U also said I was a gut scumread, I'm playing differently from VisCon past 1523, and I would think you'd try to sort out scumreads doh

[Bert]

Look who came out of lurking after a few votes formed on him lmao

[Bert]

Post

[Bert]

Nice cabd u beat me to it

[Bert]

Cow goes moo
Frog goes croak
and the elephant goes toot

[Bert]

Heh. I was right. On day 1.

wow what enthusiasm. and so do you believe him or not??????????????

Ring-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
WHAT THE FOX SAY?
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!

[Bert]

Guess fucking what Bert? I didn't post because there were a few votes on me. I posted because it was nearing yet another 48 hours and I hadn't posted. So I posted.

^scum manifesto so why are you lurking then after what you tried to do D1. what happened to "stepping it up because it's Nat's game"

Oh wait, that was just soap scum hmm?

[Bert]

SSK got vigged N1 in my last completed game VisCon 1523 too LOL and he flipped cop that was hilarious...

[Bert]

someone's gonna get lucky tonight

[Bert]

wow what enthusiasm. and so do you believe him or not??????????????

Are you kidding? I'm smug as hell and Orcinus is going to eat crow. I told him on day 1 that Cabd was crumbing vig.

Also 1466. There was a reason I was calling it a gambit.

oh ok so you think it's just a gambit. got it

oh and does SSK freak out like this often

[Bert]

wow well it feels fake dude

but it's that you tried so hard in the beginning that was weird too

also nacho agreed with my reason that you cared about how u were perceived in the beginning of the game and really went at it (that has nothin to do with lurking)....but you are asking me this, hmmm doesn't that feel weird to you huh

it shouldnt piss you off so easily because youre gonna be lynchbait when you expect us to accommodate your lurky scummy lurking ways

[Bert]

i mean, i can see why being more active directly results in better play for him as scum (harder to lynch).
but i'm not sure he thinks higher activity will make him play better as town, if that makes sense.

EXACTLY
a lurkfuck is a lurkfuck because a lurkfuck doesn't give a shit about looking town
that's why they're a lurkfuck
when a lurkfuck starts posting up a storm, it shows they have ulterior motives: especially when said lurkfuck has been on site as long as SSK has and has had an established playstyle for that long

i think last time when when a lurkfuck stopped lurkfucking empking was lyncher trying to lynch tammy

owned

[Bert]

idk ive never seen SSK just freak out after sitting around and deserving it, p sure in 1523 viscon at the end of d1 where he had lots of attention that he didnt go paranoia flake like this

meh. he is overcompensating with noise and deflections for his own absences. he also doesnt seem to be gaining any influence or doing anything else other than being defensive about himself. all of his communication is faltering and nothing else.

also explanation is like "omg stop wasting my energy by calling me out for lurking" - that's a misrep cos that's not the whole case on him lolz

P-edit: it's not just lurking that's a scumtell, love

Lurking isn't a scumtell. Sure it might be sort of anti-town. But it's definitely not to the extent that I'm automatic lynchbait.

I always respond. I always give reads. I always try.

So stop trying to use lurking as a valid tell

and grow up and make up your own reasoning.

uh huh, you are totally giving reads and trying today [sarcasm]

and misrep cos read nacho's case - it's NOT just the lurking

[Bert]

EXACTLY
a lurkfuck is a lurkfuck because a lurkfuck doesn't give a shit about looking town
that's why they're a lurkfuck

when a lurkfuck starts posting up a storm, it shows they have ulterior motives: especially when said lurkfuck has been on site as long as SSK has and has had an established playstyle for that long

Read in fine print, SSK. Then tell me that you can't trace back to its origin in context lol

[Bert]

You do realize how little I cared about that game right?

bullshit. you said yourself you were motivated to play against Nat cos you were opposite alignments. what a shallow thing to say

Way to strawman dude. Not only have I given plenty of reads all over the game, because you know the game isn't just Day 2, but you sidestep my argument of how lurking isn't a tell.

if you think a strong start Day is all the game is about, and is a springboard so you can skip D2 and do nothing that day, you are sorely mistaken.

Everything else are pretty much all impacts stemming from it. Feel free to point out what's not though.

Stop using "I'm lurky" as an excuse for not having to do anything useful today on d2.

So do you wanna tell me how lurking is a tell? Or do you agree with me that it isn't?

wanna give me some reads instead of sidestepping by saying "im defending myself'

I always respond. I always give reads. I always try.

[Bert]

Guess fucking what Bert? I didn't post because there were a few votes on me. I posted because it was nearing yet another 48 hours and I hadn't posted. So I posted.

oh then why did you continue defending yourself if you only "posted to prod dodge"

and then you put up a weak defense centered around "omg this case about me is BS and omg i can lurk all i want and it isn't a tell" then you were figuratively clenching your fists and reacting with a ton of AtE.

smells like more than the equivalent of a ploy to just prod dodge, doesn't it?

[Bert]

Don't plagiarize and have someone else write ur papers, mcmuffin love

[Bert]

notscience come out of your lurking hidey hole and come talk to me, why are you avoiding talking here

this guy claimed a PR tracker the last time he was scum in my game (past game Ace Attorney)

like does this person have a past meta of fakeclaiming PR's like this when scum

he's like the boy who cried wolf

[Bert]

no one believes anything he says anymore - like a Benmage.

although I will say this freak-out reminds me a little of scummy Marquis in AA (past game)...ughhhh

[Bert]

Katsuki is playing like Saki-town tbh

[Bert]

I would use the shot on someone who is harder to lynch lol

Saki-town from 2013 is what I'm talking about, where in my past games he or she just spammed and voted random people

[Bert]

Do u think he or she is capable of playing better??? Examples from the past???

[Bert]

Wow ffery got brought to 3pm LYLO as town

Holy....

[Bert]

No, I'm on my phone. I also don't care for his future long term meta and you're suggsting we lynch him to make a long term statement that his or her play is not ok

Hence the ??!!!!!

[Bert]

If you're policy vigging me I'm replacing out right now because my effort will be wasted.

[Bert]

I don't really see real effort, Katsuki. You're acting like people are lynching you because of everything you do, and that's so not true. Plus you've been saying you'll get to the game eventually, and then you are here but you don't get to the actual game and catching up.

To start with I would like reasons as to why you think Goodfather, Selkies and whomever are scum. And please stop mentioning that you won a scummy for whatever, because this is a new slate and a new game and your past doesn't qualify you for special treatment in this game. cos every time someone asks you something, you have a stalling answer that puts yourself in a bad light

if there's anything scummy about your play today, it's the tone/attitude you have when being pressed for information.

[Bert]

Katsuki, stay! Please?

yeah dude I've replaced out in the past before and now regret it. plus it's frowned upon <3

[Bert]

Why are we wagonning SSK again?

who are YOU considering wagoning?

This wasn't a great game for any of the town players, but Katsuki was engaged and trying all the way to the end:

The style from this link matches up with the style here. Remember how inadequate I am at looking through meta and gathering conclusions though, lol. I just get a town feeling from how he/she doesn't seem to think through any of his/her posts in this game much. But you're right about what site meta is like nowadays...there are ways to combat it

i mean the theory/content ratio is about the same as in this game IMO :/

i feel like people are expecting a lot from me

and are going to be sorely disappointed

you've already disappointed me

Bert I'm doing my catchup in an hour

I wish you would go "why isn't X dead yet" and make me more comfortable.

Yeah, I was pretty confident on my read on you but I think Day 2 has shown my reasoning to be invalid on you and so I've dropped it. I could see you being town now.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this but I don't understand. What has Muffin done to make you feel that your reasoning on Muffin-scum is now invalid??

[Bert]

wow hai guyitt long time no

drink

see

<3

[Bert]

Scary thoughts?? Elaborate please because that's super easy for you to write

[Bert]

Muffin's worst of the neighbors IMO.

Maybe you'll help lynch Ffery this time.

[Bert]

Vote: Selkies

I don't believe SSK, but he can die another day in the rare case he's town *shrug*

[Bert]

No I don't, he is tough to read.

And you are not terrible at catching scum-nacho. That's a bold-faced fib.

[Bert]

ffs Bert.

Learn to read me.

Ffs you said this in 1526 so don't give me that

[Bert]

You have enough past analysis that you've already done so that you can't classify it as anything less than adequate

[Bert]

Everything Nacho has posted can be easily faked, so until he starts revving up he's actually null so you're right in a sense

Circle-jerking and fluff for him are all null

[Bert]

Last night I had a daydream about a notsci-IK pairing

Notsci u listed IK as a scumread but never explained. Explain

[Bert]

IK's D1 "I hate to say this but notsci is prob town" was soooo weird considering his stances about policy lynches and new posting styles (tirade)

Soz spammed 3 posts on phone, I'll dig back later

[Bert]

Go to pooperville

[Bert]

It's where the Bellagio is

[Bert]

I don't really see real effort, Katsuki. You're acting like people are lynching you because of everything you do, and that's so not true. Plus you've been saying you'll get to the game eventually, and then you are here but you don't get to the actual game and catching up.

To start with I would like reasons as to why you think Goodfather, Selkies and whomever are scum. And please stop mentioning that you won a scummy for whatever, because this is a new slate and a new game and your past doesn't qualify you for special treatment in this game. cos every time someone asks you something, you have a stalling answer that puts yourself in a bad light

if there's anything scummy about your play today, it's the tone/attitude you have when being pressed for information.

:effort: =\= town
Lack of :effort: =\= scum
Open your eyes, Berty.

Ffery is obvscum

ALSo notice I stuck with Kafsuki as town read all game never wavered

[Bert]

Everything Nacho has posted can be easily faked, so until he starts revving up he's actually null so you're right in a sense

Circle-jerking and fluff for him are all null

I thought it was a towntell?

No u r too good so it's null

but I'm trying to be normal this game hahaha bugga and try to look at ur play

[Bert]

Everyone give nacho a round of applause

Cos today I bought a blanco nacho and extreme nachos from a chicken wing place for the table

[Bert]

It's not

But the more content u have the ezer it is to read u

Doy ma boi

[Bert]

Dun misrep me

Effort = ezer to read

Get the picture bub from stub hub

[Bert]

Don't goof

The more u post the more ppl like cabd can read u better

C'mon don't be silly and dolly dally about dis

Who's scum bro other than yo beautiful face

[Bert]

Cos patterns

Cos mind sets clearer

Plus more looks at ur tone and emoting plus how u treat flipped ppls

Man U messin with me I be disappoint

[Bert]

I am

But

But stop that!!! I be tryin

Cabd's an example

The more u talk the more I can try to read u

Mollie would be proud that I am trying to read u and not let others do 100% of the work

Hear me out bro I try readin u but let cabd and peeps in and listen to wut dey gotta say

[Bert]

Yea dats right cabd

Screw u to hecksy nacho

[Bert]

Yes that's y I said muffins prob scum cuz he's not stupid about knowing my play

He is used to me being an easy lunch butnot dis game

My read on u as I said afte day 1 if u actually looked is

Null-town

U gotta hell work to do busser best man boy

Come outta ur man cave and let's have non alcoholic drinks

[Bert]

Son of a liar

[Bert]

I am a jerk

But u r a circle jerker

I'm a different shape

Take that boobie

[Bert]

I love ur family all lies included

[Bert]

Vote: IdiotKing

IK will be displeased with ur spammy style



Wut dowedo

[Bert]

I like the way u think

Thinkin like a man

[Bert]

Bite me

[Bert]

"Even as we speak, the greatest scientific minds of the world are convening in a discreet laboratory in Geneva to devise a new unit of measurement to adequately measure the size of the fuck I don't give."

- Skullduggery in Mini 1526

Oh, and future games of mine will all be hydra

I am gonna go out with a bang here. Your tactic to push a case on me and hope I get distracted and don't give everything I've got

Ain't happening on my watch

Your case is chickendung and I will put it in the toilet tomorrow once I grab a laptop, but in the meantime u plz pretend to catch up with this game my friend

Bite me

/notscience impression done

I will channel my past hydra buddies and show all the game spirit I can summon up to take me to the promised land

In the words of Mollie, politely fuck off

Hehehehe, <3

Bert

Lack of controversy??? Hmm I wonder why IK called me it for vote hopping, muffin

Why did I flip flop so much on D1? Oh wait you haven't been reading the game right?? You can still change your tune

Buddying??? Lmao not a scumtell

Not making sense, fake??? Bullshit fluff for scumtells. Post something real

As for asking Nacho for reads lists and strengths of reads and reasons, look in the mirror lol!!!

Peace and sleep crashing time

<3 with love bro take it innnnn take it all in

All urs

[Bert]

-He was buddying you. How is this a scumtell?

you either didn't read or you have comprehension issues. it's not the fact that he buddied me; it's the fact that it was awkward as fuck and didn't make any sense. did you read the early game? he was bringing up a single past game, going on about how my reads there were good, etc and none of it made any sense in this game; there was no reason for him to bring it up or talk about it as much as he did

-His reads feel manufactured. his reads feel genuine to me!

ok. you're generalising my issue here but whatever. what do you like about his reads?

IK is scum???

thoughts on where you stand with every player. strength of the reads is important as well.

Nacho has no comprehension issues, and I have no learning disabilities. Only visual/physical discomfort and nothing else bro
But thanks for the laugh, bro.

[Bert]

actually, i should be saying "retarded AND possibly not reading"

there is nothing you can say that will convince me you are not retarded

There's nothing you've done to convince me your play hasn't been chickendung

[Bert]

oh, and before i forget, another thing i didn't like about bert was the awkward response to my vote on him (a la "HEY IF YOU PUT ME AT L-1 I MIGHT SELF HAMMER SO DON'T DO THAT!!") - really out of place at that time, and also really out of place if he was being genuine about improving his game

I put that in all my posts at the same day.

Check mistakes upick which is now over

Posted it at same time. So your points can suck more

[Bert]

It's hard to take u seriously

Lolz

Adding "retarded" repeatedly to make a point is the sleaziest post/wall you've made

[Bert]

I'm playing in Natirasha's honor!!! <3

He's awesome and is the sole reason I'm in this game!! Apart from Ffery Cabd and Nacho

[Bert]

Notscienceeeeeeeee lmao he's gon kill me

[Bert]

Also, I understand you get this way sometimes, but please don't be a giant dick to Bert who doesn't deserve it and probably is one of the nicest people who play this game.

also i don't give a fuck how nice a guy he is. if i insult someone in a game, i am purely talking about their ability to play mafia (they could be the nicest person in the world, if they're making retarded posts in a game i'm in, i'm gonna call them retarded for it), and i rate bert as one of THE WORST FUCKING PLAYERS ON THIS SITE and he should know why i think this and if he thinks it's an unfair assessment, i really don't care. he could be very nice as a person, he could be insanely smart IRL, i don't care. it's clearly not translating to his ability to play the game.

This just makes your case look bad.

Let's say you think I'm the worst player. For bad/dumb players, "not making sense" "buddying" and "dumb posts" aren't scumtells

Lol

I thank my friend Wisdom for my ability to stay calm and tolerate you lol

You're just being unreasonable and you should try being more civil

Nat is already unhappy with the personal attacks from when people were attacking Katsuki.

Keep it clean man, we all know Nat.

[Bert]

actually, i should be saying "retarded AND possibly not reading"

there is nothing you can say that will convince me you are not retarded

Chill out dude

[Bert]

My last thing is

If you want people to kindly listen to what you have to say and your case on me,

Tone down the vitriol. Attaching "retarded" and calling people that repeatedly makes it hard to interact with you. I like you, but these past few posts are bout as ugly as I've seen from you.

I responded a lot tonight because I won't be taken advantage of anymore as a punching bag. Especially not my solo swan song.

Later all.

[Bert]

Nat is already unhappy with the personal attacks from when people were attacking Katsuki.

Keep it clean man, we all know Nat.

what i've said here is rather fucking tame compared to the actual contempt i have for your play (that i think nati is already aware of)

don't talk to me in this game anymore. if you think i'm scum, either try to lynch me or shut up about it. don't ask me questions, because i won't be answering anything you ask of me. i'm going to treat you like you don't exist in this game until you're dead (either because people eventually want to lynch you or because scum are stupid enough to NK you if you actually are town)

This is uncalled for. And I apologize for feeding the troll tonight guys.

That part is on me.

[Bert]

You know guys, the silver linings playbook

The silver lining is that muffin's probably town for that Generic-esque tantrum

If it's not him...

Vote: IdiotKing

Time to figure you out next

[Bert]

Yeah, good point.

My reads are off - SSK might be doc, muffin's rage and inappropriate stuff he pulled is probably town...

So I'm gonna look into others. I have Aronis as town and muffin as town, so I'm resetting

I have a hunch that notsci is with IK but that'll wait for tomorrow when I have more time to sort through old posts

[Bert]

I will say that Generic and ETL rage in the past as either alignment though

And Tammy did it well in Too Many Heads past game

Later

[Bert]

Notsci you could have defended me when that guy called me a scum and retard with learning problems lol

[Bert]

I be disappoint we r in a masonry

[Bert]

Here let me pull a Nat-notscience gambit from 1526

Vote: Nat

Notsci we aren't masons, we lied.

[Bert]

Good point!!! I'm still working on not getting frustrated with tantrums though so moral support is da bomb. I fed the tantrum too, I was so ashamed last night.

Also

Vote: selkies

[Bert]

Idk obvscum ffery from 1526?

Yeah I tried to channel your "bite me" attitude, didn't work the way I envisioned. I'll just ignore next time but I tried standing up for myself once and it does not feel good lol

[Bert]

We need to hydra soon so I can learn how to do the idgaf thing better

[Bert]

are you suggesting that you think SSK is town too because

Fery I'm on my phone

I'm ok with L-1ing SSK right now

[Bert]

Low hanging fruit stick together - 246 chosen mafia is how Phok and I started to realize that

the two people who think I'm scum are in the same neighborhood

Katsuki was prime lynchbait target #1 going into today apparently

Notscience why?

[Bert]

Gaiden did that in VisCon 1523 in my neighborhood QT :/

[Bert]

He was town. I got onto him for that and eventually lynched him

[Bert]

It might be.

[Bert]

Wagons are disorganized and this game while having potential leaders, is lacking a leader.

[Bert]

No.

Ffery is pushing GF as much as she pushed Goodmorning in 1436. Weak push.

[Bert]

Nacho if he really believed in an Aronis lynch could sway it.

Ditto with Ffery on Goodfather.

[Bert]

I am inclined to say that SSK should targeted by the cop tonight. Ideally it would be a rolecop so we can verify his claim without having to kill him in case he is not bs with his claim

[Bert]

Still get vibes of phok/TIP from Chosen, and I really think his actions and everything are just really scummy in general - that doesn't mean scum.

I wouldn't really care if you put him at L-2. I'm not going to vote him today, and I doubt he'll flip scum...plus you wanted to lynch him yesterday but settled for Ross as your #1 choice D1. I still think your play has been more like your scumplay than anything. You haven't done anything to really try to get an actual wagon going on GF. A limp vote all day long isn't good.

P-edit: Yes Guyitt, it's Ffery + Orcinus

[Bert]

Ross is harder to mislynch than Aronis, so I can understand why you (or notscience if scum) would opt (optimally) for Ross at the end of D1 yesterday.

[Bert]

Oh, and I also really like his vote on you Ffery because I think you're scum. <3 Plus, I'd go insane if I were in his neighborhood, and I can't imagine how he is feeling in that QT. There's nothing wrong with ignoring a QT especially if you don't trust each other, like IK accused him of doing.

[Bert]

Did you just now figure out that Selkies is Ffery? It's in the opening post lol

[Bert]

help me ns lynch ffery u wouldn't listen 1526

[Bert]

I'm working on that, Ffery. I really don't wanna say who I tihnk is scum on your wagon because then your wagon might go bye-bye, so I'm gonna keep my reads to myself for now.

I will vote GF tomorrow if you're by some miracle town?

[Bert]

I have to admit, having the power to lolhammer ffery is ever so tempting.

how does it feel to have that power lol

idk you and nacho are the only ones who have sorta spoke up for her as being somewhat town

[Bert]

This is you abdicating responsibility for your vote.

notscience sheeped a DL wagon in 1526 on Varsoon that I kept begging for rather than a NL

he also tends to sheep. i tend to sheep in past games too, and still do.

p-edit: i dont know if i wanna massclaim tbh

[Bert]

dude i hope u r working ur meta notebook magic on her

idk im worried cos im responsible in part for this wagon

i would actually have to guess that if someones bussing ffery and ffery is scum, then it's ssk. and probably ik with her mebbe. if no bussing, maybe im wrong about guyett or nacho.

like dude u two were gonna work together on d1 and then it never happened.

and yeah ill be here in lylo obviously i hope we dont get there but since im in this game, there will be a lylo for sure

[Bert]

what drunkhammer

[Bert]

lol guyett my recent completed games are beyond bad, remember when i sheeped you in 290 (done game) a week or two ago and hammered P_A

i deserved that lynch for sure

[Bert]

why are you confident in GF as scum, ffery

what has he done, and why havent you pushed that case if you believe enough to recommend he be vigged

[Bert]

newbtown are often comically scummy. for vet players, some playstyles like phokdapolees or theirishpope are also comically scummy regardless, but even Cabd had a way to read TIP and still does. so there's a way to read comically scummy players if u look past the conventional scumtell stuff

[Bert]

Pretty sure I'm going to turn the next mislynch into a vengeful townie, barring them giving me a really stupid name.

you'd let Aronis call your shot? what if they ask you to shoot a townread

[Bert]

When exactly is it a good time to lynch people who are being comically scummy?

when they are comically scummy in a way that you feel is scum. your read on Aronis might be right, for all i know. i don't think he's scum. see how ffery said that Aronis seems newbtown? several people have said that this game, so it's not just me. matter of opinion and having to discern in games between lots of comically scummy players, rather than lynch them one by one and possibly lose and let the strong scum players slip by

Why do you ask really stupid questions when the answer is in the thing you quoted?

Okay. nvm

[Bert]

You guys were lynching me without orcinus around to make his case for Aronis or IK. If we are getting lynched today I hope you'll give us both time to post well formed last thoughts.

you're not going to get lynched today, especially with it being me who pushed some of the wagon.

[Bert]

thank god for daily hair growth

[Bert]

I didn't use the absolute 'all.' If I think they are town, I'm going to defend them. I think Aronis is town and am pretty damn sure, or else I wouldn't be strong defending him all day today after wanting him lynched suddenly at the end of d1. There is a reason for everything.

I do lynch comically scummy players if I think they are actually scum.

[Bert]

I never said I know. I think I can read a player like Aronis pretty well and I'm pretty sure he's town, hence him being in my town list.

[Bert]

i look forward to your IK case too

[Bert]

To clear up anything about the QT and me no longer posting in it. I would rather discuss things in this thread and it can be rather depressing having your neighbors saying your scum, etc.

Yeah, I can understand that, especially if you feel your neighborhood QT is compromised or if you feel they are tunneling/untrustworthy.

[Bert]

scummy

Ffery still hasn't stepped up despite all kinds of doubt/pressure being cast, still think that hydra is scum

[Bert]

she basically wilted and sounded real nervous interacting with Cabd, very resigned sounding

[Bert]

What changed is you started voting him and I've thought you're scum all along.

[Bert]

I went off Ross after I saw you on the wagon, and switched to Aronis on D1 last minute. Then, when IK started telling me he/she thought I was trying to force a NL with a few hours left, and then notscience came in and said he preferred Ross rather than Aronis whom he had voted earlier, I caved and voted who you voted...and then Ross flipped town (surprise).

[Bert]

Well, I said that in 1526 too. If I'm tunneled onto you and you aren't showing signs of really becoming engaged and getting on with it (like before your case on GF - which came 13 days late following your vote which was empty before), then of course I'm going to say I'm going to vote you D2 to see what you do.

Opinion of GF's play is scum, and I think I've explained while a while back, but I'll have to find it. He hasn't been here active much for most of D2.

[Bert]

I said I think GF's scum under the condition that I assumed for a minute that you are town.

[Bert]

Yes, I did have a separate one on him before I developed one on you solidly. But I went away from him as a priority after seeing you push him.

[Bert]

Earlier separate read beforehand (evidence):

Spoiler:

SSK or Goodfather, ideally for me. What do you think of Goodfather?

I could see a <Goodfather, SSK, Ross> pool. I don't really feel like Goodfather has been scumhunting - his last posts have said a lot but haven't added much. I thought the initial case he had on Selkies' postcount being less as scum - I thought that case was misguided town.

Speaking of opportunistic votes (as an opportunistic voter myself), Ross's Vote and then Unvote of Aronis both came at awkward times and with little explanation (the vote) or "I'm scared of a derphammer" comments (the unvote).

Unvote: Aronis

IdiotKing, were you aware you just put him at -1 without mentioning it? Are you hoping he'll just "accidently" end up lynched?

I can get behind this little Aronis wagon

VOTE: Aronis

Anyways, Goodfather hasn't done anything remotely useful-looking lately, and the vote on Katsuki (and then going back to lurking) is not looking promising. And SSK has disappeared - shocker!

[Bert]

Sounds good. GF wagon will probably work if you push it and appear to believe in it...

Your case on GF is decent, but for some reason you delayed everything with apathy until 2 days prior to deadline when you ended up at Lynch -1.

[Bert]

Guyett have you caught up with the game yet

[Bert]

^that post is pretty town...so genuine...ok I'm going to put my past scumread on GF to rest.

you could help me out and vote for Selkies

[Bert]

^that post is regarding Goodfather's last post.

@Guyett: makes sense, given that I couldn't figure out what you were doing with your posts/votes earlier

[Bert]

I didn't know you did meta

[Bert]

Yup. <3

[Bert]

Also I had a batshit crazy thought that what if the scum team tried an insane gambit by all coming out as a neighborhood? Coast to endgame as long as one isn't killed

IK was on the wagon on Aronis that at one point was at Lynch -1. Aronis also was nearly lynched at deadline, so extremely unlikely.

[Bert]

now I'm annoyed that you brought peoples attention back on me regarding reading the thread. I'll have to have words with you in our QT tonight.

Huh?

Explain this to me sometime.

[Bert]

now I'm annoyed that you brought peoples attention back on me regarding reading the thread. I'll have to have words with you in our QT tonight.

Huh?

Explain this to me sometime.

I will in our QT tonight

i don't even...

guyitt!!!!

stop getting distracted by shiny things and go read the game

[Bert]

Oh Guyett we are going to have a lovely time in our QT tonight.

How could I ever ask for more than a honeymoon with you. Where would you like to go on our BFF's honeymoon?

[Bert]

There was a time when men were kiiiiiiiiiiiiind......
When their voices were soft, and their words invitingggggg
There was a time when love was bliiiiiiind
And the world was a songggggggggggggggg

[Bert]

nacho would you do me the favour of self-voting at lylo to give us a handicap if bert is actually town? coz you'll prob still win even with that. bert will think you're town self-voting and then vote me and then you'll hammer and gg

i am very, very sad because i believe this is a very real possibility

simple solution is don't let it get to lylo

like if it gets to lylo and bert is alive and he's town

well

i mean we *might* win if by some miracle scum self-votes or something?

I'm going to say this again.

Please stop being a bully towards me. The animosity/hostility is not necessary. Both of these posts - what is the benefit of putting someone else (me) down??? You've already told me you think I'm a retard and nothing can convince you otherwise. That was toeing the line already. You've already told me you have contempt for my game and think I'm one of the worst players on the site. If you think that, you're entitled to your opinion, but please stop going on about it in this game. What do you have to gain by saying how superior other players are to me and making jokes like that??

when does this end???? This is not even relevant anymore.

Through all of this, as hard as it is to believe, I still believe in you as a player. But seriously please stop.

Spoiler:

there is nothing you can say that will convince me you are not retarded

don't talk to me in this game anymore. if you think i'm scum, either try to lynch me or shut up about it. don't ask me questions, because i won't be answering anything you ask of me. i'm going to treat you like you don't exist in this game until you're dead

i rate bert as one of THE WORST FUCKING PLAYERS ON THIS SITE

[Bert]

I know Ffery is ignoring me the rest of today (which is fine) but I have time so I wanted to get out a wall before the day ends.

OK so I wanted to address something to Ffery as to why I kinda waffled last night after she was talking to Cabd. I figured out what it was. I'll try to explain why I've been waffling.

Wagon on GF: when Cabd asked her who she wants shot, she went "yes I want GF lynched"

If you ignore my read after I flip town, I will have issues. Unless you're the scum in the neighborhood, but I kinda doubt that.

here, in this kind of statement "if you ignore my read after I flip town, I will have issues" - you don't really show concern about how other people view you, but it feels like (key word: feels) you care about who you want lynched after you die. You also didn't do the comically scummy move and jump on the next best wagon (Aronis) - so no panic.

Ffery's defense isn't great either. She just sorta melts, which I interpreted as quite scummy. She didn't generate a defense that people go "wow" at. Like our past game 1526, where she started flowing some emotional AtE. She didn't even make a defense that worked. However, the lack of reads and cohesion has made me lean scum too.

You're also not being that interactive with people in this game. Whether that's alignment-indicative, I don't know. You don't ask people who they care about going after the most. The interaction as a whole has been lacking.

Lastly, I understand that paranoia can be dangerous, but I feel like you seem to be letting people like me or Cabd or muffin or Nacho off way too easily. I expect you to check and see and make sure we are town, instead of just moving on quickly like you would when reading a newbie in a newbie game.

I do give you kudos (to Ffery, not Orc) for not trying to dig and understand why I'm scumreading you.

A lot of stating the obvious here, which I'd consider newbie-null in a more charitable mood.

In this post, I don't see the purpose of saying "I consider him newbie-null" in a more charitable mood. You already told us you only have four solid townreads. So I don't get the point in stating the obvious. Sorry, rambling here.

I also want to address IK:

Yes, sheeping votes is something I'm trying to stop when possible, as it shows I value other people's reads more than I value my own (which from hydraing I have learned is inherently scummy). I defend inactive players sometimes too, you know why? maybe they haven't posted enough, or there's not enough to read from, to get a clear picture. Some players give very little reasoning, which can be scummy.

Here's Guyett. He's kinda giddy about voting people even without having caught up. He hasn't convinced us of anything. And he's comically scummy. But from past experience, I find myself not too concerned about him because it's his playstyle. He emulates that as scum. Some things are never considered town in terms of tells, and so I defend people and take a side. Not fairly quickly, but eventually as the newer/scummy player posts more and more.

I'm also back to null on muffin. It's not alignment indicative for him to poke fun at people.

OK, back to IK. This is the following, and it sums up my view very well. I think our views don't really diverge.

so first off, in reading newbies like aronis, you don't attack their scumhunting. they don't know how--that's what makes them new.

so even though i think that their cases on basically everyone sucks, we discount them for the purposes of reading his alignment.

My defense also to people who read me as scum, is that I have been voting active players and not picking on inactives. I've been scrapping and trying to produce something solid in this game. Yes, my vote has hopped around and that can be interpreted as scummy, but I wasn't trying to look good with those votes.

[Bert]

Yes. In Mismatched Flavor you were. Not comically, but in terms of conventional scumtells you can be. But you're smart too, so there's that.

[Bert]

I don't know, but what I meant is I'm not judging you solely based on really conventional "ooh look, vote hopping, that's scummy. wow no explanation. LYNCH!" type scumtells. My only scum game where I saw you was in ETL's first mini game a longggg time ago.

[Bert]

Research isn't my forte. Plus, Katsuki was pretty town overall esp. with ragequit

[Bert]

For you?

[Bert]

notty if you rly are town and wanna discuss reads in depth i am in the mood where i will give it a go <3

We never discussed this and you said you only voted Selkies as a sheep vote.

GF
IK
You (but it's kinda close)
Maybe Selkies

Whose reasoning in this group has been the most sketchy? Probably GF, but he is claiming to be a newbie.

IK's posts have been toned in much the same way (same two scumreads, sticking with them)...his feeding us new content is sorta stagnant at this point. I do however find his playstyle moderately hard to read.

Selkies is the type that really seems to strive to get the most out of the meta of players. Ffery can get really detailed, and the work can be super intensive. But for some reason in this game I don't see her motives transparently. She doesn't seem to be playing really loosely either...

I've been looking at how GF reacts to suspicion, and it's playing the newbie card. But it's in a toned-down manner to which he responds, which kinda gives me heebie jeebies at times. I don't see much confidence in GF's game play.

[Bert]

I'm trying too but I have little sway...

Goodfather + Guyett's revote would deal the deal though

[Bert]

OK, so I took a step away from this game because I really needed a mental break.

I have serious doubts that SSK drew scum. I'll explain today in a bit regarding the newly formed read. First things first: I would have protected Cabd, but protecting Ffery even if the read is weak isn't unfathomable. I don't see the scummy mindset that protecting Ffery comes from. Ffery gets NKed sometimes before she can make herself super-townread. Yeah, I was one who pushed his lynch as far as Bert can push things at the beginning of Day 2. As for who will be lynched, SSK should probably begin to prepare himself for the outcome now and explore all possibilities of scumreads, etc. etc.

Someone remind me why doctors are supposed/expected to crumb?

Carry on. <3

I know Ffery regardless of alignment saw GF's crumb, and yet she did not back off the GF push. In hindsight, that sequence of events doesn't look so innocuous after all.

[Bert]

There wasn't a lot of meaningful content Day 1, and when there was I feel like Selkies was dictating the general direction of it.

Weirdly enough, I didn't feel Ffery dictating much on D1, but to each their own.

[Bert]

And that's part of what's bugging me. It's just a vibe I'm getting, I don't feel newbtown like I should be.

Yep. I am worried and have been. His play seems more like a seasoned veteran than a newbie. For one, he knew in advance how to crumb. That does not indicate newbtown at all. We gotta make sure he's not going under the radar.

Yeah. I don't like his D1 play (I've said this before) and the sticking to similar scumreads bit is kinda true of me (IK has been consistent). imo the scum in the neighborhood it's him or Aronis.

He doesn't appear invested in actually finding out if his semi-scumreads are actually scum. That's a problem.

[Bert]

EBWOP: in a casual manner --> "Yeah, once Aronis flips, that'll tell me a lot about Bert = low investment/commitment"

[Bert]

prefer Aronis or IK

help me and notscience, we can block together and make it 4 on IK in a nanosecond.

VOTE: IdiotKing

This is also for dramatizing confidence in Aronis as a scumread as well as any semblance of anti-town behavior, which is easy for scum to try to attack. That is in addition to what I mentioned in a few posts above and in past pages, which I will happily bring up.

Everyone discuss.

[Bert]

Attaboy *looks at notscience next*

ALL ABOARD!

[Bert]

SSK votes out of self-preservation (me or you mentality, nothing subtle about it) to make this lynch -1. Then someone hammers at deadline as this is the largest wagon.That is the potential I see in this playing out.

- Bert

P-edit: btw that's Lynch -2 now.

[Bert]

At least mine has some, albeit wrong, reasoning behind it.

what reasoning is there? that you're lurking or you made a controversial choice as doc, the former to which you agree is not alignment indicative, the latter being WIFOM? both are easily torn down as cases

your wagon was quick too

it's really you or him at this point, unless you think a GF wagon is possible

there's also the angle of - lose a potential PR or lose a potential neighbor. how are you more deserving of a vote, and what is your vote on Selkies there for at this point?

[Bert]

your wagon was quick

too

^adverb

[Bert]

Not a support group, a town block.

Which looked like it went along with your first thing of "cases on SSK are crap".

he said your wagon is 'rushed' and implied that therefore it looks bad. His own wagon also is rushed, and so I was making a point that both wagons are equal in that regard.

Because we're both town. But you're doing this lynch because you can. But I believe we can still make Selkies happen. You just have to put your vote back on to this person you thought was scum not two pages ago. We can do this.

Cabd doesn't believe in it and thinks Selkies is town, and he has had many a chance to hammer Selkies...so I feel like we are boned.

[Bert]

It's dumb, almost scummy, that you've made this wagon happen.

It looks that way, and I started the wagon not caring how it looks.

Because we're both town. But you're doing this lynch because you can

I was starting a counterwagon on someone I believe is likely scum, and I saw that there was enough suspicion on IK to make this viable.

[Bert]

But yes I am more deserving of a vote than IdiotKing even though I'm still town.

doctor > neighbor

[Bert]

notscience what do you think of SSK?

I'm scrolling through IK's posts right now

[Bert]

because there is no turning back on who today's lynch is, especially if I keep pushing this IK case

unvote

while I think for a moment

[Bert]

If you think I planned to join in and put random people at lynch -1 today just for fun as scum (SSK, Selkies, and now you), then that is not how I operate. You're pressuring me to commit to a lynch when we have plenty of time, just like on D1. 30 hours is plenty of time.

Vote: IdiotKing

Lynch -1. Someone hammer.

[Bert]

EBWOP: 2302 is partly frustration because I don't like being rushed, and to prove to IK once again that I'm not trying to get a NL. I'm trying to find the optimal lynch for town, and this time it's at your expense.

[Bert]

Holy shit bert actually might have rolled scum here.

then shoot me

[Bert]

I'm fine with that. Hammer him and avoid the NL, Aronis, since you are scared of us NLing and me not making up my mind. Make sure my mind doesn't change again.