Mini 424 - Game Over

[Nocmen]

Random Vote: The Shadow

[Nocmen]

With regards to elias's move earlier, sometimes random voting is a way of getting discussion, and if a random vote changes to another person for randomness, it is a perfectly logical way of starting discussion. Now, if this starts a bandwagon on scum, it can cause a scum partner to start getting defensive, which IMO is what happened here.

As ac1983fan said, I will

Unvote

because some tells are starting to come out with other events, and then I will

Vote:Ancalagon

for what seems to be using made up statistics with no background, with most likely seems to be in defense of his scum partner.

[Nocmen]

He has an interesting habit of overweighting his points (e.g. "die scum" "most scummy thing I've seen in my entire life" and the unsupported "most...end up mafia" sentiment that prompted me to question him). He's certainly worth watching.

Die scum was half a joke.

The scummy thing was overweighted, but it was true.

Most end up Mafia is true in my experience.

Wait...mind explaining to me what half a joke is? And if your speaking from experience, tell us that, or you get accused of pulling statistics out of your ass, which IS a common scum thing to do.

Just so I am clear, who are you proposing Ancalagon is defending?

I was saying he was covering omg, as that is who Ancalagon is defending after Elias moved a vote to start discussion via a bandwagon.

[Nocmen]

I am willing to put an

FoS: ac1983fan

for admitting to lurking, but I really cant tell if its him as scum waiting for a townie to make a misplay and try to beat them for that, or is just him being somewhat ignorant of the game. If I see proof of the former, then you can bet that this will change into a vote.

Also,

FoS: MeMe

for wanting to rid the game of dead weight, even if it meant regardless of guilt.

[Nocmen]

Wait...your response to the first quote is saying "we lost data thats a problem because I cant use it", and then you said after the third quote that you did read it. If you read it, as most of us also did, your putting out a vibe to me that reads "im a scum that needs to nitpick exact details to get you off my back".

[Nocmen]

Ancalagon: Why are you complaining over the fact that someone unvoted you? Distancing yourself from fellow scum?

[Nocmen]

no, i play fine.

voting people based on pro-town tells like overdefensiveness is the wrong way to play. never learning from your mistakes is the wrong way to play. voting people because you are offended by what they say is the wrong way to play.

finding me scummy here is beyond stupid, and yet it happens every game i play on this site. pathetic.

I laugh at your hypocrisy over this game. As Ancala said, you tell us to "learn from our mistakes", and then complain about how you are seen as scum every game you play. Have you ever thought that you are the one making the mistake with how you play? So before we learn from our non-existent mistakes (aside from listening to you, thats a given), maybe you should reflect on why we see you scummy and learn from that?

[Nocmen]

I make connections from my experience in previous games. Many times someone will say something that connects them to another person, whether it be town or scum. I said that to ancalagon because someone would be crazy to go and complain about being unvoted for - I sure as hell wouldnt, unless I had some crazy role that wanted me to get lynched (but I doubt there is one of those in a Normal game). Connections like that could be subliminal day talk between scum buddies, saying "your acting too much like me, if I get lynched today they may know its you for tomorrow".

[Nocmen]

Hmm... Comments on the posts you listed:

9 - seems like normal omg to me
10- 404 Scummy not found. He just went and pointed out that we may have overlooked the cop dying.
17- He was pressuring omg in order to bring up conversation, happens many times in mafia
32- I said many times before this looked scummy, as if Ancala was trying to protect omg
46- He asks elias about his voting patterns. How is asking someone for reasoning scummy?
91-You post almost nothing after being criticized for lurking. That makes you look scummy
94-Kilmenator has a point, she is being criticized for lurking when you are guilty of lurking even more.
113-Vote w/o reason. I agree this looks scummy
129-Ancala goes after MeMe for vote hopping, but it does seem overly defensive over one vote
133-I agree with you on how 129 looks scummy, and you accuse yourself of being scummy when you have a vote with logic behind it, unlike a decent amount of other votes in this game?
142-this could be scummy, but I really cant take a side on a vote regarding the aftermath of the data crash
161-Scummy a bit because how Ancalagon pesters over being unvoted against.
163-Barro picks up on aforementioned possible scummy in post 161
188-spectrum announces he will leave temporarily due to personal problems and accuses omg for what seems to be just poor grammar
203-elias just comments on how omg is talking out of his ass
26-Why did you pick this vote with no reason when you had some on the less scummy list?
34-Barro wants to get out of random voting stage and put possible pressure. And thats scummy?
54-omg calls BS on kilmenator's post, very hypocritical, and says he is after Javert for "no reason aside from bugging the hell out of me"
59-Barro is going after elias for vote hopping
76-omg randomly calls for an kilmenator lynch and pretends that elias is his mason buddy
97-I also agree with you here, of how Barro says he is voting for kilmenator until he finds "another bad guy to vote for"
111-You agree with why omg could be scum because of post 76. Where is this scum?
181-Spectrumvoid points out what he found while reading over the thread. I can only see this scummy if you know that he was wrong, which most likely means you were scum
195-You point out again that omg overreacted to kil.

From what I got while reading the posts:
-Many of the posts lack scumminess that you pointed out.
-I find it funny when you say "everyone but MeMe has said something scummy", when you actually have more posts in your list by MeMe than me as well as The Shadow(who doesnt really count because he hasnt been able to say anything)


You also have many posts where you labeled as scummy when the post was defending omg, more than anyone else in this game. Enough that either omg and Ancala are scum defending each other, or you are trying to make people going after omg look scum, while at the same time distancing yourself from fellow scum omg.

Because of that, omg seems to be a part of either possible scum pair. Note I am not saying Ancalagon is guaranteed not scum, just omg has seemingly been defended severely by both ac and Ancalagon, as if both would have reason to help a scum buddy.

Unvote:omg, Vote:ac1983fan

[Nocmen]

Wow...i feel really f-ing stupid, I just reread my post, and that should have been

Unvote:,Vote:omg

[Nocmen]

No, I am not saying that those three are the scum group, but it could be likely. I just find it coincidental that both ac1983fan and Ancalagon have defended omg as well as counter-attacked people going after omg. I can't tell if both are scum directly, as one could be coincidence, but two i find hard to belive. That is why I am voting for omg right now, because I dont think that it is coincidental of what both Ancalagon and ac1983fan are doing with regards to omg. I think that omg is scum, along with at least one of the other two.

[Nocmen]

ac1983fan and Ancalagon have defended omg

I never defended him directly. I said that losing a townie is bad, if he is a townie, which I am completely unsure of, but I never defended his actions.

What about page two where you told Elias to "die scum" for switching from a random vote to omg? That looks a lot like a counter attack defending a scumbuddy.

Also sending a PM.

[Nocmen]

Sweeny: I am not linking three people as a scum group. I listed two most likely IMO possibilites for a pair of scum in the group. I stated that omg and Ancalagon seemed likely as a pair, and then ac1983fan and omg seems likely as a pair. That's why I then voted omg, as he shows up in both pairs.

[Nocmen]

I dont buy the claim either, but I dont buy either claim from omg or ac1983fan now. Now if we need to get him to tell the truth, then I guess I need to

Unvote, Vote:ac1983fan

[Nocmen]

I know I was putting up the ly-1. The whole claim and the situation surrounding it IMO is much worse than omg's claim (because omg has pulled stupid crap like that before).

[Nocmen]

I'm actually sort of also considering going after Ancala. As pointed out by MeMe, im not liking his tendency to lurk, as if he is afraid to post for some reason.

[Nocmen]

So you then are saying that you are not really trying in this game. I'm not sure what to say, and the fact that you state you will probably be lynched anyways just seems to me as "I'm scum and can't think of a safe claim".

Unvote, Vote: Ancalagon

[Nocmen]

Actually, after thinking about it, I am pretty sure Ancalagon was just lurking in order to make sure he didn't say anything that would get him lynched, because if he didn't do anything, then he wouldn't have to make a claim that would have us in a predicament over the truth of his statement.

I stand with my vote.

[Nocmen]

Hmm...well the doctor is dead. I stand corrected with how I almost would guarantee omg was scum. However, this makes me reconsider the way I saw things earlier in the game.

I still have some concern towards ac1983fan though. Just because he claimed does not mean I will always believe it.

[Nocmen]

But if kil was scum, why would she hammer her own teammate, especially D1?

[Nocmen]

ac1983fan, why do you seem to always have an excuse when you come under fire? IIRC, you still havent given your explanation of the long list of posts you said were scummy yesterday either.

[Nocmen]

I will not vote Kilmenator, due to I have reasonable proof that lynching her would be lynching a pro-town role.

[Nocmen]

Yes, we are masons.

[Nocmen]

What Kil said is true. I also was told the truth by the mod regarding our innocence when I first got the mason PM. I asked if I was town aligned, and I was surpirsed to get the response that both of us were. The PM that I recently got (and Kil got as well I'm guessing from her last post) said the exact same thing.

[Nocmen]

I'm here, I'm sorry I forgot to announce I've been light on caring about this this week, finals on monday have taken much of my time.

[Nocmen]

I'm back, hopefully for a decent while.

Over a quick reread, at first I didnt feel much that barroman did wrong, but I'm now starting to doubt that. I feel that his comment was a bit too defensive, and meant to threaten the town.

Vote: Barroman

[Nocmen]

Well, sorry for my sudden inactivity. I posted on the vacation thread that I was going away until today, but I forgot to post in the induvidual threads. I am interested in finishing this up, but my reread/read over what I missed the past 3 weeks will be later tonight or tomorrow.

[Nocmen]

Starting where I left off, at the beginning of Day 3.

I understand where Javert is coming from saying that there is not much of a chance there really would be all of these different power roles.

ac1983fan then says he didnt block, even though he had all this time to do so. Its not that hard to reread, and even a slight suspicion (which you seem to have many of in the game so far) would lead you to possibly hitting a scum with your ability.

Vote:ac1983fan

With SV claiming to be a second cop in the game, there is all the well possibility he is Naive, which would back up his innocent result on ac1983fan. Though I dont like the fact that SV is holding his result. This makes me think that one of the scum has to be either SV or ac1983fan. The odds are well against both of them being innocent. I also dont like what Javert pointed out at 506, saying something strange about my references to my partner. This makes me really consider if he is lying.

It comes down to who makes me more worried. ac1983fan, while some of their actions seem illogical, dont contradict themselves somewhat like SV's do.

Unvote, Vote: spectrumvoid

[Nocmen]

I agree with MeMe...but I also think that everyone needs to try to renew interest in this game (even I will admit this is sort of on my list of games that have been half neglected). However, I did join this, and I will see through to it that I continue until the end of the game.

[Nocmen]

I don't like the fact that sweeny just asked to be replaced like that, but I also don't like the fact that hand banana pointed out, regarding SV surviving through the night.

[Nocmen]

I don't like the info that hand banana pointed out, which was that SV did survive through the night.
Sorry for the vague description, I wasn't compleltely thinking earlier.
I am satisfied with my vote on SV.

[Nocmen]

yep...thats the hammer...now to find out the results.

[Nocmen]

I don't trust ac1983fan. He could easily be faking an RB, and went with No Kill last night in order to shift blame to hand banana. Also, as Javert pointed out, the hammer seemed very anti-town, especially when he went against someone that was sort of covering his ass.

To ac1983fan and hand banana: I give you both one post to convince me that the other of you is scum. After those posts, I will place a vote.

[Nocmen]

Vote: ac1983fan

[Nocmen]

It takes a lot to consider where to go, especially with my unique posistion in this game (almost proven town)...

There are 5 people that could be scum, ac1983fan, MeMe, Javert, elias, and hand banana.

My guess is that there has to be 3 scum total, or else it would not make sense to have the game continueing. That would mean there are two scum alive.

I really can't get a good tell on any one single person. However, I am keeping my vote on him. Why? If the scum wanted to, most likely they could end the game by quicklynching him if he was town. That would make it 2 scum and 3 town, they could NK their way to a win overnight.

That...or they are pulling everyone's strings.

Next time I get time, I will attempt to go and analyze the possiblity of every scum pair, and their relation to the lynched scum. It might not work, but I might get a better scope than looking at each person induvidually.

[Nocmen]

Well... good game Mafia...well played. I do admit that my gut sent me the wrong way, as I had a gut scum feeling on ac since day 1, while hb had just joined the game, and it was hard to get a good tell on him. Elias, I'm not sure if I suspected that much (I may have day 1), but I stopped doing so later on. To think right before the final lynch I wanted to move to Elias due to the fact that it seemed to me elias would be the perfect partner between both hb and ac. However, I didn't, and the mafia won. Good game.