Mini 90 - Game Ended

[just_nigel]

vote Macros

becasue he happens to have the seat next to me in the council chamber (at least in the mods list anyway) and I want to stretch out my legs a bit more. And yes, this is his second vote, but there is plenty of time to recind if needed.

Maybe if we took a closer look at the Town Historian's papers we might have understood what role he played on the council??????

[just_nigel]

It's true, I mistakenly killed off Smoke_Bandit in our last game together to hand the maffia a vicotry :p |Sorry Mate.

mlaker said:

Well Random Vote Morpheus for bad spelling.

but if Morpheus gets the vote for bad spelling, how can it be random??

[just_nigel]

Mlaker, I was just being pedantic

OK so now, I think we have all voted once ... now what (looks around quiet chamber) ... with "11 alive, and 6 to lynch" I assume we do want to lynch today ... ummm but how to encourage action...maybe if I try "

vote count please

"

[just_nigel]

Ah well, he doesn't need to hold the grudge against me any more and can freely unvote and go FOS someone else who is far more scummy than this honorable member of the council <<:lol:

[just_nigel]

I know it can be a risk just voting for those who vote for you, but I am going to have to

FOS Quailman

~bump~

and just to keep this going, unvote Macros; vote: Just_nigel, as he was the last participant to cast a vote today.

My problem with this is that I was not the last participant to cast a vote.
In fact after I last cast a vote, votes were also cast by Carmine, Talitha, mlaker, Darkblade and Smoke_Bandit (now called NanookTheWolf). Why the lie?

[just_nigel]

I am also going to draw your attention to two posts from the same fellow council member that I think put the author in line for a

FOS Talitha

:

[quote=Talitha]-Notes that the deadline is only about 3 days away, and at a weekend- I don't mind a deadline, but is there any chance of a few extra days Coolbot?
vote: just_nigel giving him 4 votes (with 6 to lynch I believe)
Nigel, convince us of your innocence![/quote]

As I have already acknowledged, I don't just FOS everyone who votes for me. Some one is going to go and there will always be some townies who join in the lynch. Smoke_Bandit (Nanook) voted for me and as already discussed I accepted his reasons, besides it was only the first vote so it didn't really matter. Likewise Carmine voted for me and although I think she is wrong I cannot fault the logic of her post, so there is no reason to presume it was scummy.

On the other hand Quailman voted for me and as I have explained I flat out didn't accept his reason. He lied.

Talitha's vote felt suspicious too. It was the fourth such vote and the closer the vote gets to six without good reason the more suspicious I would become. Her vote was also couched in four defensive or apologetic phrases. These are phrases she could point to, to say her vote didn't really count once I was lynched and proved not to be scum.
1) She refers to the looming deadline so she leaves open the excuse "but I had to vote we had a deadline".
2) She asks for an extension so she leaves open the excuse "but I wanted more time to consider".
3) She lists the vote count so she leaves open the excuse "but I told everyone else to be careful".
4) She puts it on me to prove I am not scum so she leave open the excuse "but I wanted him to defend himself."
Based on my intuition any one of these one their own is fine, but all four of them in a fourth vote, based on no good reason - I think she doth protest too much.

The second post that bemuses me is this one:

[quote=Talitha]I noticed this post of mlaker's but, if anything, it made me less suspicious of him. The reason is that I know for a fact that there are vanilla townies in the game. I am on. I am on the council, I have a "job", but I have no abilities...
...I just wanted people to know that there is (at least) one vanilla townie in the game, and that I have a job.[/quote]

Her whole argument is based on being a townie with a particular job on the council - yet she does not tell us what her job is. Why is that? Could she be making this up to invent a defence for mlaker? And what does this say about mlaker?? Ah blow it I will

FOS mlaker

too.

Particularlay keen to hear from Darkblade. What do you think of this?

[just_nigel]

The fact that you're speaking now.... now that you no longer have the most votes, and now that the deadline has been retracted, makes me rather suspicious. Is there any reason you didn't speak up earlier?

Yes my availability. If you check the newbie game 16, where I am also participating you will see exactly the saem pattern.

PS More on this whole roles and jobs thing to come...very interesting.

[just_nigel]

Yes I will buy that Nanook,

Unvote

and

Vote:Quailman

.

Looking ahead to the next day's lynch, I think Nanook's revelation adds to the suspiciousness of Talitha and mlaker. Like Darkblade and me, Nanook has a specific role and a matching ability.

It seems that all townie members of the council do have a special role. The dearly departed 'Stupid' had one "Town historian" but mlaker didn't realise all us townies have various abilities as well as titles, and mistakenly suggested Stupid was vanilla.

When this scummy slip is revealed Talitha tries to cover it by claiming she, like the now silent 'Stupid', had a job title but no special abilities. Yet she fails to name what her job title is.

The reasons Nanook's revelation confirms my suspicion, is that as more of us townie type council members reveal we do have titles

and

abilities the more certain that I am that Talitha has been trying to mislead us about her role in this game.

Do I need to say what my role and ability is? No, we don't need to give the maffia that much information. If all townie-councillors can do something, then the scum-councillors will have to take pot luck at who they eliminate.

[just_nigel]

That is twice, now

Carmine

has come to the defense of

Talitha

who was suspiciously trying to defend

mlaker

. Back on page two she said

I think that Darkblade was giving reason why he thought mlaker to be scum ... Reasoning which Talitha has pretty much refuted for now by claiming townie.

Plus I seem to recall Carmine was the other person to jump on the bandwagon to try and lynch me!

Suspicion is growing, but it kind of relys on proving the first one in the chain to convict them all. Maybe if we have the ability to investigate we should investigate one of those three.

Also, I am placing

bloojay

on my safe list since I notice right at the beginning he said there must be more than one townie with an interesting ability. He said this when only the title of town historian had been revealed, which implies he has a town-friendly role and ability so was able to assume the Town Historian had the same.

[just_nigel]

It is reassuring to know that Carmine is the end of a scummy chain... but Darkbalde, why do you assume

With two mafia down, we can be pretty sure

mlaker

and

Talitha

arn't mafia together.

?

I thought with 12 in the game there could be five anti-town roels we had to eliminate, so with two down there could still be three to go. Are there normally only four in a game this size??

Meanwhile, to help us evaluate our suspicion of these two I would like them to name their so-called role titles.

[just_nigel]

Sorry, not sure if that is clear:
a) I am glad Carmine is not scummy.
b) I am not sure why we think there is only one maffia left.
c) I want mlaker and Talitha to name their roles.

[just_nigel]

Talitha says

Your argument that there could be 4 (5?) mafia is just absurd.

Please do not exagerate what I said. I have never played a game this size before and wanted to know why some (like you and Darkblade) assumed only three mafia. I believe you, Talitha that you think it is absurd that there

would

be four or five mafia, but why is it absurd that there

could

be four or five?
I am interested in how you know this? I am not asking you or Darkbalde so you would be defensive, I am asking in general because I want to understand.

What is it that lets you, or would let me conclude there is only one more mafia to go? If you put yourself in my position playing this game for the first time, I have not seen anything in the rules or CoolBot's posts that siad there were three mafia and one bomber. Has there been somthing that I have missed?

This question is very important becasue as you have seen, my tactics have been to try and discern which players have been cooperating/conspiring together. If there is only one mafia left this search for a conspiracy is doomed to failure.

Morpheus, mlaker, Talitha: I am happy to discuss further my request for a partial role claim, but I think it will be even more helpful to clear this point up first.

[just_nigel]

I think I am getting a clearer picture fo the game now. I have re-read from the beginning and notice in the very first vote the theft of explosives and the threatening note from the mafia are listed as two separate events.

So, if we do only have one maffia left the whole conspiracy thing goes out the window. Add to this the fact that we know Carmine is clean. It all means we now know there are vanilla type council members on the townie side.

So with much humility I

un-fos: Talitha, Carmine and mlaker

.

I hope all who wanted to go after me for what must have appeared crazy logic understand that my beginning with the assumption that all townies had roles meant my posts were logical and fair - except for the one glaring error that my opening assuption was wrong

The request for role titles was only in the light of that assumption. If you followed my logic I was trying to expose what I had suspected was a scummy lie. Now I no longer think it is a lie, I will no longer apply any presssure for such a role claim.

[just_nigel]

Hmmm, still looking forward to Macros making a post that actually advances an argument, and not just makes a vote, or repeats other people's ideas.

[just_nigel]

Yes I am pointing a hunching finger at

Macros

(maybe as the serial killer <<shrugg>>) because after reading the first four pages of this thread I find he has contributed so little to the debate.

mlaker

said:

Vote just_nigel he's changing his mind with no valid reason

No valid reason?
My whole day one reasoning was based on there being five scum.
Today my reasing is there is only one scum (and a serial killer).

Don't you think that is a valid reason for a change?

[just_nigel]

I'm not trying to fos carmine, just checking

Well, I investigated Carmine last night, and there wasn't any action what so ever going in or out of the house....

Don't know if that means that she is innocent or not,

but just a thought.

(Emphasis added.)
Under what senario could she still be guilty and have stayed at home?

[just_nigel]

I had been waiting for Macros' defence before voting for him, but now that he says:
1) he has been missing from all games, and
2) he is quitting
I am less inclided to vote for him.

That leaves the lurking Morpheus. Just going from what is in the game I didn't get the same vibes off him others seem to have. I tend more to the

fos mlaker

camp. but this comment from Carmine was interetig (emphasis added):

Morpheus has been flying beneath the radar somewhat - posting enough to be seen, but contributing

less than usual

.

If this is the case, it does smell fishy. Since our sherrif has aquitted Carmine, I tend to believe it is the case.

vote: Morpheus

[just_nigel]

Welcome mathcam, you are the latest incarnation of an horable tradition of replacements in this game.

[just_nigel]

I meant lurking in general - especially before today. I also thought Macros was worse than you, but with him gone - you are left holding the "most-likely-to-be-scum" baby.

I am happy to hear Carmine's response and weigh that, but at this stage am not convinced just on your testimony.

[just_nigel]

When I have played this in real life, we have always known what roles were in the game. I can see how it complicates it to not know.

mlaker said:

I'm still suspicious of just_nigel. One minute he's hounding me and others the next he's forgiving us? I just don't get it.

I have twice explained that something happened between those two 'minutes'. Why don't you get that a change in the number of maffia would result in a change in my voting patern?

Carmine said about Morpheus:

I'm sticking to this for the moment

And I am happy sticking to my vote for Morpheus and my fos on mlaker.

[just_nigel]

Hmmm things have slowed down.
If the Morpheus bandwagon has run out of steam, I would be prepared to unvote him and join Darkbalde in forming a crazed lynch mob in mlakers direction. Any one else wnat to go there?

Mathcam, who do you wnat to railroad - are you still suspicious of Talitha?

[just_nigel]

Reading through, I agree with the just_nigel bandwagon the most. His quote above

Mathcam, who do you wnat to railroad - are you still suspicious of Talitha?

was the icing on the cake.

Vote: just_nigel

Cam

So Mathcam, I'll take that as who do you suspect?

"you"

Are you still suspicious of Talitha?

"No, but I am of you!"

Not quite the result I was looking for.

[just_nigel]

And can we prod

boojay

?

[just_nigel]

I did not understand from Mathcam why he voted for me just because i asked his opinion, but i can now see what the concern was.

No I do not suspect you Talitha, as I have said my fossing is on mlaker and morpheus (and I am starting to look bloojay's direction).

I ask people directy what they think, not as a lack of confidence on my part to say what I think, but to try and put them on the spot, to make them explain themselves. I think the scum would want to put votes and suspicion on people for no good reason other than they want to lynch townies, so by asking people to explainthemselves further I am trying to generate more conversation.

[just_nigel]

Ok, role claim:
As indicated all along I am one of those who are not just on the council but also have a title and role (which is why I was originally suspicious of vanilla council members).

My title is "Bodyguard"
My role, like a traditional doctor, is to protect one member of the council each night. The one difference being that I am not guaranteed to prevent a mafia attack. Coolbot didn't spell out what this difference meant.

I now speculate that Coolbot didn't want to reveal the presence of a serial killer and that maybe I can't prevent mafia attacks at all but can prevent SK attacks. This may be what already happened on the first night. I am looking forward to the end of game phase to find out.

Sorry folk I suggest you all look somewhere else. (twitches his head towards mlaker, morpheus and bloojay).

[just_nigel]

From: just_nigel
To: CoolBot
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:02 am
Subject: Re: Mini 90 - Role
Coolbot,
Not sure if i am meant to put in a name for the first night, but if i am I protect Macros (becasue Macros happens to be standing next to me )
...Nigel


From: just_nigel
To: CoolBot
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:08 am
Subject: night choice
As a body guard, I defend Darkblade

[just_nigel]

Coolbot could tesitfy that nothing I have said is a quote from him - but that might put him in the difficult postion of having to agree or disagree with one of the players.

I voted for Darkblade on the second night becasue not only was I convinced that he was townie, but thought he put forward the best arguments against suspect scum. I thought that this might make him a target, and I wanted his opinions to still be here today.

My vote on day one however was clueless and it would be ironic if mathcam (then Macros) turned out to be scum.

I have always hinted that I had a role and ability - and wonder if that made me a target of the scum?? Maybe a reread of the bandwagon will reveal who was pushing it who was following it and who had rational reasons.

[just_nigel]

unvote: Morpheus

I like your new stuff better than your old stuff. I hope it is not just in the face of threats to lynch you but your role in this game is seeming more trustworthy as we go.

vote: mlaker

None of the others I have fos-ed or voted for have been so focuseed on voting for me. I hint I have a role and you vote for me. I explain myself in a way that satisfies other townies but you do not respond to the reasoning and vote for me. I come right out and tell you I am a body guard and you vote for me.

vote: mlaker

Hmmm, and mathcam still has his vote on me even after all this time???

[just_nigel]

I think that's four votes, so I'll give

Bloojay

one more day and if not satisfied I'll vote to lynch too.

[just_nigel]

"The slightly less trained member of the bomb squad" ?? hardly a technical name for a role.
"I attempt to diffuse it, I'm not totally sure of my success rate" ?? sounds suspiciously similar to my role claim.*
But worse of all "Not here until Saturday?" what not even the chance to question you about what you just said? Nope bloojay, your time is up.

vote: bloojay

*I'm really hoping it sounds similar becasue you are copying me to make it up and not because the roles in this game really are that similar - O well we will know for sure in a day.

[just_nigel]

Woo Hoo! and I thought there was still one more to kill off.

[just_nigel]

The game would have been weirder if he had tried that, because having been killed off so quickly meant he would not have had the chance to detonate them at all. And we would have only realised for sure we had a bomber after he was dead. (Sure hope our homes weren't booby trapped to go off if the bomber died ---- now theres an idea for the next game. Hmmmmm)