Mini 403: 101 MPH Mafia - Game Over

[Yamahako]

I'm here, didn't know the game started today - gimmie a sec to read and I'll catch up. I will be posting as much as the rest of you soon

[Yamahako]

Vote Adele

. The plan benefits scum most of all, they can watch the votes stack up and be on the good side of the random pick when the deadline hits. Someone can come up with a crap reason to jump off a buddies wagon too because a person looks like town. I don't like it - I don't see how, given the more random nature of this game, putting us in a situation where we can garner very little information on who is actually lynched (and who was part of the lynch) seems like a bad idea(tm).

I could be wrong, but other than "reacting to information quickly", which someone else pointed out is easier for scum to do, I don't see how it possibly benefits the town. I agree however, pushing bandwagons isn't the way to go specifically, but there's tons to work with already - so I don't think we are going to be dealing with randomness too much longer.

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote Kenji

. No Lynch? Seriously? In no way would no lynch help this situation out. Random voting is more likely to get us scum than a townie at this stage - no lynch guarantees us losing a townie. Maybe later in the game no lynch is a prudent move when you have protected investigation roles - but day one? no. At least the other plan had a chance of grabbing scum.

The real reason that plan isn't as good is because if we have 2 or 3 people sitting at an identical number of votes (as will tend to happen with the mafia) then someone will die - but no one will be accountable. Watching someone jump ship at the end gives you information - having everyone hold fast to their vote - but it meaning nothing since there is no hammer and a random person out of a select set being the one to die gives out little information to glean for clues as to who is the mafiate.

Discuss, consensus, and vote would be the most logical course of action - we should use FOS to show who we would be willing to vote for (like say a list of suspicion) and get rid of the person highest on our lists. Since this game moves fast - if we have enough people giving analysis and people clearly stating their suspicions then we have something to hold people too.

[Yamahako]

regardless of my role, if it comes down to a choice between me dying and someone else, i want them dead and me alive. its just basic survival.

its funny that you and patrick cant see that... i guess maybe it really is just a difference in playstyle.

Its pretty obvioius omg, but the manner in which it was done would be the deciding factor. Did the person give information regarding his switch? Was it helpful to the town? These questions would determine how the action was viewed. However, once the two people are voting for each other - then the plan DOES work - since neither of the two people on the chopping block can affect the final outcome.

[Yamahako]

Jack being asured of your town-ness would mean that you would want to avoid your own death as much as possible as that's one CONFIRMED townie you're keeping alive. I could see an investigative roll letting themselves die over another to assure a town victory if they know people are gonna kill off the doc (for example), but that would be a rare occurance.

[Yamahako]

I'm not really sure I understand the wagon-type thing on Ectomancer - someone sway me.

[Yamahako]

I'm not defending him, he doesn't seem especially protown, but I guess I don't see why he has that many votes as opposed to some other people.

[Yamahako]

Adele and Kenji are on my vote list, Bad ideas for town = a vote from me. But adele has enough votes on her right now, so I'm not switching. I think its a good idea to keep the vote moveable in case something happens that makes people want to change quickly if the deadline quickly shows up.

[Yamahako]

Yamahako:
"Random voting is more likely to get us scum than a townie at this stage"
No, it really wont. Town outnumber the scum, random means random. With more town than scum it is more likely our random votes will fall on them, thereby making it more likely random voting would lynch a townie.

Don't quote out of context - Random voting is more likely to get us a scum than a townie (compared to Adeles plan which Scum can more easily manipulate). And EITHER plan is better than the no lynch you advocated! (which has zero chance to get us a scum - and a townie will die tonight).

I'll read the rest and comment in a second - I just wanted to clarify this - makes me really like where my vote is still. Misrepresenting what I said and implying I'm scum, OMGUS much?

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote Kenji. No Lynch? Seriously? In no way would no lynch help this situation out. Random voting is more likely to get us scum than a townie at this stage - no lynch guarantees us losing a townie. Maybe later in the game no lynch is a prudent move when you have protected investigation roles - but day one? no. At least the other plan had a chance of grabbing scum.

The real reason that plan isn't as good is because if we have 2 or 3 people sitting at an identical number of votes (as will tend to happen with the mafia) then someone will die - but no one will be accountable. Watching someone jump ship at the end gives you information - having everyone hold fast to their vote - but it meaning nothing since there is no hammer and a random person out of a select set being the one to die gives out little information to glean for clues as to who is the mafiate.

Discuss, consensus, and vote would be the most logical course of action - we should use FOS to show who we would be willing to vote for (like say a list of suspicion) and get rid of the person highest on our lists. Since this game moves fast - if we have enough people giving analysis and people clearly stating their suspicions then we have something to hold people too.

In response to:

unvote, vote pablito for that mass of text on page 2, it screamed "I'm being helpful, don't lynch me" to me... aka a scum tell.

Also, where did I say I couldn't keep pace with a fast game? I can spam it up with the rest of you.

Adele, your plan is rubbish. If we are going to keep votes on anything let's make it No lynch, we don't want accidents happening. If you don't someone lynched put your vote on no lynch basically.

I didn't say that the random vote favored grabbing scum mathmatically - all I said was that random voting is more likely to get a scum (than no lynch, or adele's plan).

You're my number 1 right now, Kenji.

[Yamahako]

I'd like to hear from Adele...

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote omg_im_innocent_wtf

I really like Adele's response. I don't really like omg's attitude - and it seems more confrontational than necessary. While I'm not 100% sure he's scum, I'm 100% sure I'd like him to be lynched over Adele at this juncture.

I still think that Kenji's the pay for today, if anyone backs me up on that I will gladly move my vote - but I don't like 2 people sitting at the same highest number incase the deadline hits.

[Yamahako]

ffs you people are stupid.

pablito - nice one... your immaturity just cost the town a power role, sure i messed around too but i would never actually have voted you. you knew i was town, knew i was a power role, and still were stupid enough to vote for me because i annoyed you. well done. if village loses because i die its your fault.

yamahako - nice opportunistic jumping on the bandwagon.

too late. sorry but its too likely day ends now to risk dying. ill sacrifice tonight.

im the doctor.

now unvote right now.

unvote, vote yamahako

for taking too long. tbh i no longer care who dies. ill die tonight whatever happens i guess unless we have a very lucky roleblocker.

ill send my night action to the mod now, i wont post again in this game unless addressed so as not to cause confusion. gl to all.

Definitly like my vote where it is. no one was asking you to claim, I even said that I'd rather vote for Kenji - so why the claim? Why claim doc? You basically killed yourself - its not night yet, you aren't dead yet, so even if you ARE the doc, mafia kills you tonight. You had ample time to make a serious case against someone else, instead you OMGUS me.

Nice.

For the future, if you are the doc, never claim doc, not day 1 anyway. It basically gives mafia a freebie power role kill.

/sigh, if you really are town, you've basically screwed us up at this point. If we lynch you - mafia gets another kill and we are down 2 townies tomorrow. However, if we don't lynch you and lynch someone else, then we still have a chance at hitting a townie today, mafia can either kill you tonight or (more likely) kill someone else, then tomorrow we will wonder why you aren't dead yet - and possibly lynch you as a mafia member, which if you're not, it means another kill for mafia.

Someone (else) please let me know if I'm completly wrong in this thinking, but there's no real reason to leave this person alive at this point.. either he's mafia hoping to either draw out our doc (or make some last ditch effort at survival), or he's a townie that's slated for death anyway and a possible liability even if he doesn't die.

Thanks omg for putting us in this position.

[Yamahako]

Pablito you still left omg in the lead.

Unvote, Vote:riverwind

no a temporary basis.

omg, why do you say that pablito know you were a power role?

Thanks Jack, I can unvote know. I didn't want Adele to remain in the lead.

I still think OMG might be right lynch (sadly).

Unvote

[Yamahako]

So the vote count is something like:

Yamahako: 2
Ectomancer: 2
Adele, Riverwind, Hemispheredancer, pablito, omg: 1

Yamahako, whether he is doctor or not, there is really no point in lynching him today. That is too much of a risk. We cannot risk killing our own doctor. He will most likely be killed during the night, and if he is not, then we have a conflict. Right now though, its best for him to survive, and I don't know why you don't see that.

Unvote, Vote Yamahako

Why don't I see that?

1 - no reason for the doc to claim when he did, if he was the real doc - however plenty of reasons for scum to claim doc in that situation (defense, people afraid to vote, make the real doc claim)

2 - risk of leaving him alive could be greater than risk of killing him. If he isn't killed durring the night, we are left with the same dillema today (and every day he's alive) potentially leading us to kill more townies, or leading to the death of more townies.

3 - he COULD be mafia, meaning we want to kill him anyway - just

assuming

he's a townie at this point is dangerous.

4 - a player so bad he claims doc on day one when he's not under any serious pressure wouldn't necessarily be effective in that role anyway - meaning we have little to lose by offing a "power role"

that being said, I unvoted him, and I didn't necessarily say lynching him was the right move. It may be more likely that he is a bad player than scum, I'm just possibly not experienced enough to determine the risk of keeping him alive vs. lynching him.

[Yamahako]

I dont get the feeling omg is bluffing his claim, but if he is actually vanilla trying to protect our doctor by misleading scum, that still makes him not scum (added to other reasons I dont think he is scum). I guess it goes back to that hypothetical question asked earlier about would you sacrifice yourself to save the doctor.

Yamahako, that vote looked very opportunistic to me, especially since we know the day has to be getting short. Until I was assured otherwise, I thought it had actually ended with Arafax's 9:30 post. It especially didnt look good when your focus has been on Kenji, and then the omg seemed to come from out of the blue from you.

unvote Adele, Vote Yamahako

I explained why I switched my vote. It wasn't opportunistic - its simply that would rather have seen OMG die than adele at this point, and I don't think leaving a persons death up to random chance (were the night to end) is the right play. At this point I'm definitly leading the votes (at 3) so that's not a problem.

However the last too votes on me don't seem indicitive of my actions, as I've been rather transparant about all of my moves here and I feel they are fairly town oriented. Freaking out like OMG seems more like a scum action than me (however it could also be a newbie action, so I'm willing to forgive it).

[Yamahako]

My opinion is that, this early in the game, its never good for the doc to counterclaim as it only gives the mafia what they want anyway. Its been my experience (and many other players seem to take the same stance) that you should lynch all Day 1 doc claims. That being said I think OMG is more likely a noob than mafia - thus my dillema and my questions.

And yeah, there isn't a last resort. A townie should be providing alternatives as long as they are in the lead and not making wierd ultimatums like "5 mins to unvote." There isn't a claim or die in this game (I was just thinking about it actually as I will likely be the first death), there's just try to explain why someone is less town than you.

Since most of the people paying attention right now seem to think OMG is not a liability right now, I'll go back to

voting Kenji

Since no lynch day one is one of my personal favorite scum tells.

[Yamahako]

yamahako - you are a clown. you obviously have absolutely no clue how to play this game. you cant even read between the lines when i am using every second post to tell you that im a power role. you are either an opportunistic scum that just revealed himself or the absolute worst town player i have ever played with. honestly wtf were you thinking voting for me. then not unvoting me? anyone with that little understanding of the game needs to die for towns sake either way. i feel like every game im in on this site there is at least 2-3 players just like this that completely wreck it by having zero fundamental understanding of mafia and make a stupid vote which cant be countered due to the circumstances.

facts:

1. i was under serious pressure. i was leading the votecount and at least one opportunist had jumped on the bandwagon. another jumps on and its gg to me. plus day ends at any time, i could have died rite then.
2. i am claiming now because it means the mafia have 2 choices. either they take a potshot to hit the cop, whom i am also going to be trying to protect tonite based on the same information (and i have a pretty good idea who it is imo)... or they waste a night and kill me, meaning the cop is guaranteed a peek tonight.
3. lynching me is so stupid its unbelievable. ill let others elaborate because i really cbf at this point.

lol, thanks its been a long day at work - and I needed a good laugh.

[Yamahako]

My opinion is that, this early in the game, its never good for the doc to counterclaim as it only gives the mafia what they want anyway. Its been my experience (and many other players seem to take the same stance) that you should lynch all Day 1 doc claims. That being said I think OMG is more likely a noob than mafia - thus my dillema and my questions.

rofl you are calling me a noob. i am 50 times the player you will ever be. you paid no attention to this game and screwed town completely. this is the worst gameplay idea i have ever seen in my life.

you are a useless townie or a terrible scum, either way hopefully you are a dead man walking.

confirm vote yamahako

and they just keep coming!!!!

night everyone its unlikely I'll check back before tomorrow morning - I get to go home now!

[Yamahako]

I am unequivocally

not

the doc. If someone

is

the doc, in no way should you counter claim omg. Sorry, I'm getting ready for work, I'll be able to post more later.

I wasn't advocating omg's lynch at any point - I merely weighed the options regarding him being the doc or being mafia (though we don't know if we have a doc, if you happen to be a nurse or something don't confirm please) and voiced an opinion on the matter. Other than voting omg (to get the lead off of adele, whom I believe with her large post recently) before the fiasco of him claiming, I'm not sure why everyone is voting me. Mayhaps some scum be lurking on my vote count?

That being said,

Unvote, Vote Ectomancer

nothing specifically bad about you ecto, but I know I'm town

[Yamahako]

Unvote

Go ahead and move your vote Ecto - I have no real reason to keep voting you.

[Yamahako]

You not only said he had no reason to claim, which he actually did since he was on the copping blcok, plus you said it would be a greater risk in leaving him alive. How is that? If we kill him today, then we might kill off our doctor, which is never good. If he survives the night, then we might have to think about lynching him, but not now.

If we spend every day debating whether or not omg is scum, then we are giving mafia a huge edge this game. I said it MAY be a greater risk to keep him alive, and asked people to comment on that. If we kill him today we MIGHT kill off our doctor (we might also kill a scum), it isn't necessarily

never

good to kill off the doctor. It definitely isn't something you

usually

want to do. But he is neither confirmed, nor acting how a typical doctor townie would act.

Saying I'd rather one person be lynched over another doesn't mean that I'm advocating a lynch of that person - it means just what I said - I find Adele less scummy than OMG (at the time, right now I think omg is just a bad townie).

It's been my experience (and as I said many experienced people on this site, like Glork, seem to agree with me) that its best to lynch claimed docs on day 1.

There's no such thing as a chopping block in this game, there are no hammers, all that exists is a leader board and an unknown deadline. There are ways to explain why you don't think you're the right lynch that aren't sensationalism, insults, ultimatums, and unnecessary claims.

The one good thing about this turn of events is that there is a lot of dicussion and a lot of things we can pin on people later. How fast my bandwagon loaded up should be telling later in the game.

[Yamahako]

In a reread his point was more about Masons (where I played in a stupid manner) you can check out [url"click here"]http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=450[/url] and read his posts on that page (and mine to see some bad play by me).

[Yamahako]

bah

[Yamahako]

I guess Yamahako has a problem that I also saw in omg. He cares for himself, and not for the better of the town. That is why I am voting for him.

If you are referring to my vote on ectomancer - think of it like this:

I know I'm town, I know what my role is, I am 100% certain that if I'm lynched then we will lose a townie.

I don't know ectomancer's role, he's likely a townie, but I can't be 100% certain of that. My voting for him means I'm acting in the best interest of the town from my perspective voting for someone unconfirmed in order to try and save someone confirmed. It's not about what's good for me... townies dying is bad for the town.

Everyone should be playing like this - unless of course you happen to be a tracker, or someone who can tell what role someone has and you KNOW the other person is a role that will help the town. Then you can take the bullet for the other person and be acting in the towns best interest.

In this game, not voting to keep yourself alive is almost like voting for yourself - which is a no-no in other games. (Notice I said almost...) People can only work with the information that they know to be true, everything else is conjecture and speculation. Just as most people think that voting the claimed doc is a no-no, but it doesn't seem that bad to me - it doesn't mean I'm scum it just means I have a different perspective on the situation. It could certainly be the WRONG position, and I'm willing to accept that.

Actually, if I were scum I'd love for OMG to stay alive. Creating that kind of confusion is the best thing that Mafia can do. If at any point OMG became a liability I could just off him as mafia, but each night he survives will cause the town to question him even more. Especially if he's as easy to read (as to who he would protect) as he seems.

That being said, I don't think he's dangerous to keep alive at this point, I just wouldn't advise trusting him. I'm still suspicious of Kenji (actually I should be voting him

Vote Kenji

)

[Yamahako]

"I know I'm town, I know what my role is, I am 100% certain that if I'm lynched then we will lose a townie. "

Claim then.

Yamahoka, please keep posting stuff like this "and as I said many experienced people on this site, like Glork, seem to agree with me" which is oh-so scummy it is untrue.

scotmany12 is pinging my scumdar something rotten at the moment.

wow.. fishing for power roles are we? I'm so happy with my vote!!

[Yamahako]

You want me to claim? That's not going to happen. I think I've been pretty vocal.

[Yamahako]

I'm not feeling the kenji lynch. I would rather lynch Estomancer or Yamahako.
I don't blame ppl for feeling annoyed at omg wtf i'm innocent, as he may be only 5 or 6 years old, but it's important to seperate that from the objective of lynching scum. Seriously if he's a real doc I don't see him bring around long. Scum can't afford to be leaving poweroles around, especially not in a setup that will likely already be favourable to the town.

Just a few points of contention with what you've said.

Kenji wants me to claim (after I said how much I disagree with claiming day 1 - especially with no potential for a hammer). He was iffy before (wanting people to vote no lynch). He jumped on my wagon when it seemed there were many people on it and tried to (poorly) incite more people on that wagon. In my opinion - that's 3 strikes.

Yeah I'm annoyed with omg, my annoyance isn't the issue as much as his attitude. Do you have faith in his ability to make solid choices on whom to protect at night? I don't. I don't think he's mafia though (gut feeling), but if he's ineffective at his role (in my opinion him claiming proves that he doesn't really understand how to play it - there is a ton of subtlety necessary in pulling off a good doc player that I don't see him being capable of that). That's why I questioned whether or not it was worth the risk. If it was a more reasonable player, who was really under pressure, and they felt they needed to claim I wouldn't have even considered it. However, at this point I think its best to look for scum as opposed to risk killing the doc.

I do especially disagree with the idea that this set-up favors scum. I REALLY think this is heavily in their favor. Just the nature of not knowing when the deadline is - and one vote being so crucial, and them having the information available to them to help sway people to the wrong side time after time... we need to act quickly, but think soundly. The normal things you do in a game to find scum are still in effect, but you need to choose your voting strategy differently, and that difference favors the scum.

[Yamahako]

I do especially disagree with the idea that this set-up favors scum. I REALLY think this is heavily in their favor. Just the nature of not knowing when the deadline is - and one vote being so crucial, and them having the information available to them to help sway people to the wrong side time after time... we need to act quickly, but think soundly. The normal things you do in a game to find scum are still in effect, but you need to choose your voting strategy differently, and that difference favors the scum.

I assume you mean 'favours town' in the first line? You are right, the deadline is short and unpredictable - a huge help to scum. By the setup, I meant the role distribution. To counter the deadline mechanic, Arafax (last game) put in a low scum number (just 2) and gave the town 3 useful poweroles. That setup favours the town, in itself, the deadline mechanic makes it a balanced game. So my point is, if the setup is like that again, scum really can't be letting poweroles live.

Unvote, vote: Yamahako

since asking a few experienced players confirmed what I thought, there's no common policy of lynching claimed docs, and Glork doesn't support it.

Yeah I already clarified that I misremembered - and it was claimed masons (I even gave the link).

[Yamahako]

In a reread his point was more about Masons (where I played in a stupid manner) you can check out http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=450 and read his posts on that page (and mine to see some bad play by me).

[Yamahako]

Yeah sorry, I didn't really see it last time because of the tags going wrong.

I picked up this:

Yeah I'm annoyed with omg, my annoyance isn't the issue as much as his attitude. Do you have faith in his ability to make solid choices on whom to protect at night? I don't. I don't think he's mafia though (gut feeling), but if he's ineffective at his role (in my opinion him claiming proves that he doesn't really understand how to play it - there is a ton of subtlety necessary in pulling off a good doc player that I don't see him being capable of that). That's why I questioned whether or not it was worth the risk. If it was a more reasonable player, who was really under pressure, and they felt they needed to claim I wouldn't have even considered it. However, at this point I think its best to look for scum as opposed to risk killing the doc.

I still don't see how you can maintain he wasn't under pressure. He was the vote leader, at a point where the deadline could fall at literally anytime. If I remember right the deadline for day 1 last game dropped even earlier than the point at which he claimed. And again, since pretty much all minis seem to have a doc, if he goes uncountered, I believe he can be trusted as pro town, no matter how good or bad a player he is. The reason I bring this up is that I've seen scum before try to force through lynches on someone behaving stupidly, in a way that may make them easy lynchbait, so it worries me somewhat.

What is your assessment of kenji's post 250?

/sigh, I'm not a basic townie so I don't know

[Yamahako]

for what its worth, only my role name is capitalized

[Yamahako]

Also,

mods

, Yamahako has been misspelled in every vote count.

Shh, hopefully they can't kill me if they don't get my name right

[Yamahako]

My role confirms the existance of another role in the game. That's why I'm reluctant to say anything. I made a sideways hint at it in an earlier post after the debacle with. I will claim if that's what people want to stay alive, but I really don't think that it will have a positive effect on anything.

For what its worth, I'm not a cop, I'm not a doc, I'm not a vig.

[Yamahako]

Time for a re-read, there's been a few wagons, and lots of discussion - there's gotta be something to glean about what's going on.

[Yamahako]

Adele, I called it. SV was always in the game.

Welcome, SV.

I'm not exactly sure if I believe Yamahako's claim, I mean it is something that scum could claim. Townie with information about existence of another role...I think scum could take a stab at what power roles might exist. I don't think that the claim is putting me at ease. It's not exactly something I would believe would be in 101 mph either. However, I believe that Yama's behavior so far has not been too scummy.

Hopefully I won't have to say more about the subject but - my role confirms the existance of another role (or else my role would be pointless). I don't have information on who that is, just that my role would not exist if someone in the game didn't have a certain role. Protecting the existance of that role is worth getting lynched over - so I'm not going to claim even if it means I will be lynched.

[Yamahako]

Unvote Kenji

I didn't want to put myself in the lead, but I don't thinks he's definitly scum.

The only counter point to Kenji's knowledge - is that if the basic Townie Role has the same capital word as my role - then its possible that mafia is set-up the same way... But that's such a slim picky point that its almost not worth making.

[Yamahako]

What was your question(s)?(there's no way i am searching through all the backlog)

Wow...

Unvote, Vote Riverwind23

Semi-lurking, not contributing much when you do post, and you don't want to read the thread?

You've posted 7 times in 12 pages - you said you "have a life" which is why you can't post a lot - however this is supposed to be a high speed version of mafia and requires a lot of posting (which was said at the beginning when you signed up). What you have posted isn't enlightening or saying anything truly constructive. Your posts seem like they have substance, but in general they are unrelated to the state of the game, more so on your feelings (rather than extrapolations) of what's going on.

[Yamahako]

I did an isolated re-read of this thread and everyones posts - I'll give you my analysis

Vote Ectomancer

In re-reading, I'm not sure I've seen anyone with less commitmant to what they say, non-commital responses are usually the sign of someone trying to give themselves an out at every opportunity. If ectomancer turns up scum I think we know why omg didn't die last night... Also Patrick (dead Townie) had him on his scumdar

Scotmany - can't get a serious read on him, but I don't think he's especially town or scum. So he's either a blah townie, or a decent scum

Pablito - I think he's pretty town, he's adding a lot to conversation and making his opinions fairly well known.

Adele - Other than her plan I didn't like in the beginning, so far I like her play I think its similar to my style - things can seem very logical to one person and completely illogical to another person so a dissenting opinion on a plan to action isn't enough to really suspect her. She's someone that could be playing helpful in order to appear town - very WIFOM I know...

Hemisphere Dancer - only 5 posts this game I find that incredibly scummy.

Strong FOS Hemisphere Dancer

Jack - I'm on the fence here, I think his posts seem genuinely town, but almost *too* town...

M4yhem - Only one post so far, but just replaced in - So I'll give (her?) the benefit of the doubt for right now.

OMg - leaving this one alone :-/

Kenji - Scummy, but he knew the right word :-/

[Yamahako]

If ectomancer turns up scum I think we know why omg didn't die last night

What does this mean?


It's interesting that we had two claimed power roles and neither of them died.


Why are you voting ectomancer pablito?

In re-reading Ectomancer, he defended omg alot - I just thought it was a bit suspicious.

Depending on some stuff that happened last night, I might have a decent strategy - but it will require a full claim from me and depend on wether or not we accept that omg is a confirmed doc, and kenji is a confirmed vanilla townie :-/

I don't want to say any more unless people think its worth persuing.

[Yamahako]

No no no, don't get me wrong I absolutely do not think omg is mafia - I have a plan based on some information I have, with some potential information that someone probably gathered last night, and if we accept omg and kenji as confirmed (me knowing my role and my status) I think we can numerically gaurentee a win. Before I go off half-cocked however, I'd like to know if that is the town consensus (that Kenji and Omg are more or less confirmed innocents), and whether people think that me full claiming and suggesting my plan would be prudent now.

Bah, nm I can claim at this point, it hardly matters - and with the votes piling up on Jack (and us having no info on when the day will end) I'd like everyone to be able to comment on it in case he's not the droid we are looking for.

I am a deputy (DEPUTY), I become the cop when the cop dies. In addition to becoming the cop, I get his suspect list and the results. I am sure of my sanity (though nothing was stated about the real cop's sanity).

I hinted at this in two ways yesterday (just to clarify) once when I mentioned the "Nurse" role briefly (the version of the Deputy for the Doc), and another time when I said that the existance of my role confirms the existance of another.

Being the Deputy - and knowing in the town that someone is a cop - hopefully they investigated someone tonight - and therefore has a verdict on someone. If we accept that OMG is the doc, then OMG can protect to potentially keep things going longer. This creates a problem for the scum in knowing who to kill since even if they hit the real cop - I'll have the result of his investigations.

I'm sort of willing to accept Kenji as town- however that's the weakest contention of my plan. If Kenji, OMG, Me, and a cop (who would theoretically be able to claim today to verify last nights investigation) were considered cleared - then we could investigate the other 6 people in the town, depending on the outcomes of certain things and the existance of other potential power roles, we could get 3 solid investigations before all 3 of us (OMG, me, and the cop) before we were all dead. Assuming that we have a hit on someone who didn't claim a power role from the cop, then we also have one investigation already covered - (leaving 2 people unaccounted for) if we lynch one of those people today, then see tomorrow how the investigation turns out - we could determine the best course of action at that time. IF there are only 2 scum, we could have it done in 2 more days.

If people think this is a solid plan, I would suggest that the cop claim and give us his result from last night - and we could quickly act with that information.

[Yamahako]

If there's not a counter claim to Jack I'm happy to move to pablito for voting - Scum would be more likely to claim a not-guilty result making this less likely something fake.

Unvote, Vote Pablito

I think its best not to annouce your investigation choice Jack, that makes it harder for mafia to reduce the amount of information we get.

[Yamahako]

If he announces his investigation target - the mafia will simply kill the target (or the doc.. ect.) if they kill the target, it makes us more suspicious of OMG, while letting us get fewer leads (like who died reducing the number of potential scum).

I don't think this is a fool proof plan, but baring a counter claim - and the fact that Jack got a guilty (if it were an innocent verdict then I would be more skeptical) I think its worth moving on.

[Yamahako]

Although actually, I really doubt they would bother to kill who I investigated, with omg and yama still around.

It's irrelavant now - but if they were to constantly kill who you investigate, then we'd lose out on the information, and we'd be going blind every day. Since OMG would always be protecting you or me, then the doc would even be pointless, then in the end mafia would win.

By always killing someone else, then we can eliminate another person from being mafia - allowing us a better chance to narrow down the search for scum.

This is all of course assuming you don't hit a guilty again which would either end the game or leave us only 1 scum left.

[Yamahako]

Unvote

This should be interesting...

How do we proceed here - this is tricky - can we risk voting off a cop by putting Ectomancer and Pablito at equal numbers to see where things end up, or take out ectomancer and kill pablito if he isn't scum...

Pablito - does it say in your pm that you are certain of your sanity?

I do feel more like ectomancer is scum than pablito - however I felt that both pablito and jack were pretty townie - would would be evidenced by their skill in playing (either side).

Your last point Pablito is an excellent one though...

I don't know where to proceed from here - I'd like to hear from more people who know more than I do about this game

[Yamahako]

So we have two people claiming cops. This is big. As much as we need to focus on that, I think we are forgetting that omg claimed doc, and he was not killed. In my eyes, he is either doctor or scum. As I see it, there are three possible lynches for tonight. We can lynch one of the two "cops" or omg and see if he really is the doc.

We should lynch either Ectomancer or Pablito - and here is why:

Pablito got a guilty on Ectomancer - if he's scum, so is Patrick - we've got 2 scum without having to take out Patrick in case he really is the cop - meaning if we believe Pablito ectomancer is the safer play (than Jack) in either case.

Jack got a Guilty on Pablito, meaning if we believe Jack, we take out Pablito.

I personally don't think we should get rid of jack at this point. In the case of two good players like pablito and jack, I'm not sure who to trust - meaning we should vote for Pablito or Ectomancer :-/ Obviously if Ectomancer is Scum so is Jack - and we can hit him tomorrow.

[Yamahako]

So we have two people claiming cops. This is big. As much as we need to focus on that, I think we are forgetting that omg claimed doc, and he was not killed. In my eyes, he is either doctor or scum. As I see it, there are three possible lynches for tonight. We can lynch one of the two "cops" or omg and see if he really is the doc.

We should lynch either Ectomancer or Pablito - and here is why:

Pablito got a guilty on Ectomancer - if he's scum, so is Patrick - we've got 2 scum without having to take out Patrick in case he really is the cop - meaning if we believe Pablito ectomancer is the safer play (than Jack) in either case.

Jack got a Guilty on Pablito, meaning if we believe Jack, we take out Pablito.

I personally don't think we should get rid of jack at this point. In the case of two good players like pablito and jack, I'm not sure who to trust - meaning we should vote for Pablito or Ectomancer :-/ Obviously if Ectomancer is Scum so is Jack - and we can hit him tomorrow.

[Yamahako]

sorry internet was screwy so I double posted

[Yamahako]

I actually mistoke Patrick for Jack don't ask me how I did that - If Ectomancer is scum then Jack is likely scum.

To test Pablito its better to lynch ectomancer since if pablito is scum, we won't have taken out the cop.

It all depends on wether we trust Jack or Pablito.

[Yamahako]

Scenario #2

Pablito is the real cop.

Optimum Plan:

We lynch Pablito today. We then find out that Ecto AND Jack are scum, and just in case there is a third scum in the game we get ANOTHER peek tonight when i protect yamahako.

Town lynches Ecto tmr and Jack the day after = gg town.

Or we lynch ecto - find out both but give us the contingancy plan incase Pablito was counter claiming as a scum. Besides - its possible there are 3 scum in which case that extra investigation would be really helpful.

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote Pablito

I guess worse case scenario is he dies and I take over his investigations - best case scenario - we win?

[Yamahako]

I still think Ectomancer is the better play if we want to test out Pablito - at least with Ectomancer we keep our cop while confirming him :-/

Not that it will do much but

Unvote, Vote Ectomancer

[Yamahako]

You heard the man

Vote Adele

!

[Yamahako]

In case this doesn't end it today Jack pick a winner for me tonight 2/2 is some nice scumdar.

[Yamahako]

We can't hammer in this game, just have to wait until the time runs out.

100 mph mafia had 2 scum, a cop a doc and a roleblocker. The mafia won easily, I doubt Arafax added a mafioso.

We got lucky cause our cop was so good at picking out scum. We could still be sitting at -4 townies if he hadn't nailed 2 out of 2. Also, we were able to let Jack claim because of the pressure for the doc to claim, and the pressure on me, and mafia failing to kill omg night 1.

All in all, if this is really the end, Jack just won the game for us - which I can't say was lame - but definitly didn't help keep the dicussion going.

I'm sorry Adele, but you are going out gracefully.

[Yamahako]

I'm having trouble coming up with a scenario that benefits mafia for a no-kill last night. I can't see how anything would be telling about leaving Jack alive instead of killing him and knowing his good scumdar it seems it would be better to force me into his role - where I wouldn't be as good.

The following people are alive

Ectomancer - unkown
Hemisphere Dancer - unkown
Yamahako - Deputy, I won't comment on my level of confirm-ability
M4yhem - innocent search result
Jack - Cop, confirmed
Kenji - Vanilla, fairly confirmed
scotmany12 - unkown

The only potential reason I see for leaving Jack alive last night is that his investigations mean nothing because there is a mafiate. Him dying, being completely logical, would have made perfect sense and revealed practically no information regarding who the last mafiate is. Seeing as how we didn't hit deadline with night choices (as far as I can tell), then the choice would have been no night-kill. This does scream godfather, or other investigation immune role. They would have to gamble that they would get "cleared" by Jack leaving us to keep doing wrong investigations.

The flip side to this is either a nurse, or a roleblocker got lucky last night with their night choice. I'm finding it difficult that mafia wins the first one easily so the mod adds a mafia member with a power, converts a roleblocker into a deputy, and then feels that keeps things in balance. The Godfather role with to potential investigative roles (especially ones in which they are sure of their sanity) seems to make sense as far as balancing things out for the mafia - but you would think there would be a concession to the town in someway to compensate.

If you're a nurse or a roleblocker I think claiming is in order. M4yhem's last post kinda screams scum to me as well - but I'll hold off on a vote until everyone is back. I don't think killing off innocent results is where we are up to just yet, we've got 2 days till lynch or lose (meaning 3 days minimum for town) the lack of a night kill gave us an additional day.

[Yamahako]

Yes, that is an option.

Thank you!

With this option now open, scum could have used this no-night-kill to confuse the heck out of us. At this point we have one left; this one could have chosen not to kill tonight to set up a roleblocker claim for later. It would, for at least today, keep them out of the fire.

So yeah, that's a possibility. I can't see how that'd be helpful to scum, but it could definately buy time. It would probably have been better to have waited a day or two if this tactic actually was used, that way the town-to-scum ratio would have gone down at least a bit.

But I'm still kinda feeling the scot lynch. ^^;

The Roleblocker claim, at this point, would only give the scum one day - so it would only work in Lynch or Lose. I might even go as far as to say if we don't hear a roleblocker claim today I'm tempted to auto-consider that person scum.

A Godfather is the only logical reason for a scum to not kill last night - as they would hope Jack would confirm them innocent. Having "2" cops would definitly be balanced with a Godfather.

I just think we've got another power role in here though - Nurse shouldn't claim - but I'd like to hear from everyone if you are a roleblocker (well except Kenji, Jack and me who have already claimed - and M4yhem who I assume as claimed - but can't be certain).

[Yamahako]

err I think you missed something yamahako

Yeah I opened the reply way before I wrote mine, and I didn't go back to read till now.

If scot is telling the truth, I see it being between HD and M4yhem. It's not ecto, Pablito is a strong player - but with 3 mafia members and knowing Adele and Pablito weren't Godfathers, it wouldn't have made sense for Pablito to give up the GF to be lynched. Pablito would have named Adele as the other mafia member if he was trying to get us to lynch jack (hoping we'd rather risk a potential townie to test out the cop rather than to lynch the cop). Pablito had to counter claim, and he had 2 choices - give up a mafia member in order to legitimize his claim (and thus take out 2 townies before he died, a very good trade), or not give up his scum mate and try and take out one townie before he dies. I think he made the play to single out a townie rather than risk a partner - especially one that would have had to be the Godfather.

I consider Ecto cleared at this point - no logic points to him being mafia from the viewpoint of the actions of Pablito under those circumstances (where we assume we have a GF - which is a good assumption).

That leaves M4yhem and HD, both of which I have very little read on - but I have faith in Jack's scumdar

Unvote, Vote M4yhem

[Yamahako]

Vote Ecto

, I guess Pablito went for the more gutsy play..

[Yamahako]

I didn't even get to use my power... sigh lol

[Yamahako]

I think mafia needed a godfather, the hit on ectomancer clinched it - If the last scum was able to hide from investigation it would have been a bit closer.

That being said, if JAck wasn't so good at nailing investigations the game would have gone on a lot longer.

[Yamahako]

Yet this complete thread has a fairly typical number of posts. It's not really shorter, just faster; people adjust to the circumstance.

Yes, but the point is, we lynch ppl for really crap reasons. Look at the riverwind lynch. Without a flood of cop investigations, there might have been more lynches like that.

/agree

[Yamahako]

That would be kind of cool - same rules but the day ends every 24 hours? 24 hour Mafia has a nice ring to it