Mini 392: Jungle Republic - Game over!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

YARR!

Now to read the thread!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've read up to page 12 and I must say that it was pretty obvious, at least to me, that Nai was the President. So

FoS: Yosarian2, thestatusquo, Zindaras

, you should know better.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've read pretty much the entire game now.

I've got a good feeling Yosarian2 and Zindaras are Islamists.

Because of what I said last post, because of their part in the germy-lynch, because of fairly pointless discussion on how Islamists would act and Cadre was pretty scummy too.

I'm considering voting.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Crap. You're scapegoating here. Your predecessor said nothing of the matter, and it's very easy to be right in retrospect. I also stated that I would probably be voting LyingBrian, unless he came up with a better explanation. I am not the one to be blamed for Nai being hasty and claiming.

Yes, it's very easy to be right in retrospect, but I was unaware that Nai really was the president at the time of reading. He made a number of posts, which clearly suggested he was the president. I know I would've known in that situation and I don't believe it slipped by you and Yosarian2.

More crap. You're ignoring all arguments here and randomly putting the blame on two people. Again, you're also ignoring the ShadowLurker lynch.

I understand and to an extent agree with the germy-lynch. He was looking scummy. But I don't like how it went. You're not the only two to blame, but it is part of why I'm suspicious of the two of you.

The ShadowLurker-lynch was driven by 1. LyingBrian, 2. Jathan's use of profanity and 3. day 1 shenanigans. I don't think it's particularly relevant Today. I don't see why I should've mentioned it.

For one, it's not pointless. Know thy enemy.

It is pointless, because we both know that how the Islamists are going to play is going to be dictated by that player's play style. I seriously doubt that the fact that they're Islamists rather than Commies or something is going to have a noticeable effect on their play. In essence, you're making generalizations that needlessly limit our pool of lynch targets.

For two, even if it would be pointless, it still leaves more content than pretty much anyone else in the game.

Pointless content only distracts us from the real thing: finding scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Anyhow, I've made up my mind.

Vote: Zindaras

, let's get it on!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Zindaras, I don't believe you didn't see Nai was the President. It was clearly there. And Yosarian2 was already arguing a "don't lynch any claimed President" approach, so there was no need for you to agree with it or promote it.

We had input from all players. I argued with germy, even to his satisfaction.

But I'm not germy and his satisfaction is hardly relevant to me. I feel the lynch just went too easy.

Every lynch is relevant. Especially ones that are impossible without scum being in them.

Even if you do hold that view, I was merely presenting my case against the two of you. There was no specific reason to mention it. If you think it speaks in your favour, you are free to mention it.

Where have these statements limited my lynch pool? The two I've been mostly aiming my suspicions against today are both very active players.

Even if you have not personally followed through on it, you've still advocated what I see as an anti-town policy.

And it is true that people play differently as Mafia, as Cop, as Doc, as Survivor. The Islamists are essentially Survivors, so you would expect them to play differently. Yes, there are exceptions to this, and yes, we shouldn't put too much faith in it, but in general, it is something noteworthy.

Islamists are not essentially Survivors, they are what they are. They might play differently, but the difference'll be very much dependent on the specific player. Looking for scum seems much more productive than looking for survivors or whatever you want to simplify their role too.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So I should simply jump at anyone else even claiming Cop? As I said before, Mafia is a game where there's no real time pressure. I opted to go to bed and review the game in a later, more awake, stage.

So you're saying you did see it?

This speaks of little knowledge of my way of playing. If I think something should be done, I will argue for it. Especially as one-man arguments never get far.

I think you're too smart to connect yourself so strongly to what I suspect to be your scum buddy, Yos. And I think you knew it would end badly. Letting Yos do the dirty work is then a far more rational approach for any Islamist.

Obvobv, that's because the guy self-voted.

It is a part of it, but not whole of it.

You should never ignore anything said by any other player in the thread. I've brought up arguments as these before.

Friday nor Lucresia goes free from the ShadowLurker lynch, and I like how both of you are ignoring it.

I was explaining my two major suspicions, making my case. Why should I have to mention every previous event?

As for the last part, my point is that it is worthless content, speculation that is not in any way helping the town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I said this before. If I had to have picked anyone for Cop at the time, it would've been Nai.

However, that doesn't mean that anyone else claiming Cop is to be instantly disbelieved. Again, I point out that I am far more hesitant as town. Again, I point out that I only wished to argue on with LyingBrian before deciding.

I'm not buying your "I lack guts"-defense. A good townie would've argued for a LyingBrian-lynch.

So, if I don't, I'm Islamist, and if I do, I'm Islamist too?

FALSE DILEMMA! There was, in fact, a third option(ie. the pro-town option), arguing for a LyingBrian-lynch, but yes, you are an Islamist.

I feel I have argued more than enough with germy, ever since I got in the game. I've argued with him ever since I got into the game. Are you suggesting I've been setting up a germy lynch from the start?

Not specifically.

Every lynch is extremely relevant. I don't like the fact you're ignoring everything else to go after me.

For example, TSQ's and sprontie's votes for germy, the entirety of Day One.

I'm trying to lynch scum. You're my best bet for scum and I'm trying to convince the town of that fact. Simple, aye?

For one, I disagree with the entire concept of it not helping town, as, in my opinion, pretty much all information is beneficial to the town.

Do you think an argument about how our Dutchness affects our playstyle spanning 14 pages would be beneficial to the town? Any positive effects that might have are easily overshadowed by its distracting influence and clouding of the real issues. Distraction is a tool of the scum's arsenal.

For two, even if you assume it is worthless content, I have posted far more normal content. I'm not entirely sure about the specifics, but I think I've posted more content than anyone else in the thread.

Here, have a cookie. It is, however, completely irrelevant to the argument and I know you're active as both scum and town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've got to say that on some level I kind of did believe lying brian when he claimed cop, especally as, like I mentioned before, his claim that he had an innocent on me seemed to fit with the way he had treated me that day.

Yes, it had occured to me that it was possible someone who was still pushing hard for his lynch after he claimed could be the actual cop. But at that point, I was unwilling to take the risk without a counterclaim.

You didn't see Nai as President then?

Eh? If you agree that germy looked scummy, why are you attacking me for putting the first vote on him?

The lynch went too easy. I'm not specifically blaming you, but it makes me suspicious of everyone on the wagon.

Actually, that was exactally the point I was trying to make, which was just that Norinel's argument that (to paraphrase) "most/all the islamists would have been on the germy wagon, so we should lynch someone who was on that wagon" was a questionable, and perhaps scummy, attempt to narrow the list of possible suspects.

I will re-read that part now.

Anyway, CES, if you are going to vote, I would request you keep a close eye on the game and be prepared to unvote if it looks like the scum are trying a speedlynch.

Go go fairly pointless comments that are designed to make you look responsible and pro-town!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Um, dude, Yosarian2, you are totally misrepresenting him(unless you thought he was actually advocating randomly lynching from the bandwagon). He was refuting your argument that the germy-wagon was useless in terms of information, a refutation I agree with.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Then there was only one good townie in the entire game.

Yes, all the townies weren't good enough and all the good players weren't town.

I'm not a hasty person, Cessy. I prefer to argue before casting votes.

There's a time for everything, Zindyboy, that was the time for action, for doing the right thing.

Again, why are you only attacking me over this? I was hardly the only one guilty of this.

Because I think that you specifically are an Islamist? It's part of the reason why I think you're scum. I'm also suspicious of others, yes.

So then, how is it impossible to believe that I was not genuinely suspicious regarding germy from the start and the fact that he had votes on him already was not at all a factor in my play?

It is not impossible. I do not pretend to be 100% sure, nor do I derive my suspicion only from these specific actions.

You're using some mad ignoring skills.

For example, your only opinions are on Yos and me. You don't say anything else regarding anything else. Narrow-minded. Single-minded. Wrong-minded.

I'd call it focussing on what's important, trying to get the town to do the right thing.

Our arguments regarding playstyle have not spanned 14 complete pages.

And, yes, I think that it would be beneficial to the town. Simply because it may help the town catch scum.

I'm merely using an extreme example to illustrate my point. You're supposed to realize that information an sich need not be beneficial.

Of course, in this situation, it's less useful, since the main effect of our Dutchness is that we can't get all the intricacies and nuances of the English language, but that's not a tell.

I get plenty of the intricacies and nuances of the English language as far as I'm concerned, I actually meant clogs and stuff. You know, Dutchness.

I feel that it's the other way around. And you'll notice me doing that in pretty much every game, every time.

I will need references.

It is very relevant to the argument. You're saying I'm posting worthless content. You're using this as a scumtell. I'm saying I have been posting way more than enough content for this not to be true.

I'm saying you've posted worthless content, content with no positive expected value for the town. That content is scummy. Other content you've posted is not relevant to the scumminess of that content.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well, I thought it was possible, sure. He did seem way too sure for a townie, which made me think Nai was most likely either the president or the communist.

Or the communist? That's a strange remark. Please elaborate.

He was trying to argue that there were "two or three" islamists on the wagon, and not basing it on anything. There's no way there could have been three islamists on the wagon; even if they were newbs going for a speedlynch, they would have been votes 3, 4, and 5, not 2, 3, and 4 when it's 5 to lynch. Two islamists on the bandwagon is possible, sure, but there's no reason to assume it.

I personally wouldn't rule out three Islamists, just like that. It can definitely happen, if their play styles allow it. Anyhow, I think I should bring up what Norinel said, because you are misrepresenting him. It should speak for itself.

Just by the numbers, I know there's at least one Islamist and two scum on the germy bandwagon. (Since there are only three townies and the Communist, and I know I'm a townie) If there were two or three Islamists, which I'd be inclined to think was the case, lynching randomly from the germy bandwagon is better than lynching randomly from the entire town. And since the Islamists were just two lynches away from winning, if they could force the lynch on germy easily and write it off the next day by treating it like it was an obvious choice.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So at the time, yeah, I thought Nai was quite possibly either the president or a communist.

I have no problem with this, but you originally said "or

the

communist"(italics mine). I may be stretching here, but the original statement seems to suggest that you knew quite well LyingBrian was scum and you thought Nai was the President or the other Communist, who would've also known him to be scum, it seemed to suggest that you had already narrowed down to the number of communists to one.

So TSQ wasn't town either?

Well obviously. I mean, have you read his posts?

It's always a time for argueing.

Even 1 minute before the deadline? We both know that isn't true.

So, basically, your entire point relies on interpretation and is subjective.

What did you expect? A cop result? Magic? Of course it's subjective.

Therefore, you must look at every instance where information is added to the thread and determine whether or not it is relevant.

Of course, but you were saying any and all information is beneficial.

Unfortunately, the ones that jump to mind are ongoing games: Space Monkey Mafia, Two-Headed Mafia 2, Inquisition Mafia (different site), Unrealistic (also other site). I mainly speculated on roles and setups.

In this game, I speculated that the Mafia would try to force a No Lynch using the tie=no lynch system to catch scum.

I cannot comment on those. And I'm not reading a 34-page thread for a mini.

People who attack others for posting worthless content usually don't attack people who have posted loads of content. In this specific case, other posts are very relevant for your point. You say worthless posts are a scumtell. Well, I can point you to enough worthless posts in this game.

If you feel like implicating others, do it, but I saw scummy content and that makes me suspicious of you.

I feel this is wrong. Day One lynches are almost always useful. I've caught scum multiple times simply by looking at the Day One lynch. The before linked game is a good example, another example is this game, wherein I got unfortunately killed. My investigation did, however, yield Mafia.

And this time it caught us LyingBrian. If you think there's more to be find, you are free to share it with us. I don't think there is.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes, but you never asserted he was scum, or what kind of scum.

1. It's pretty obvious what he is.
2. It's not currently relevant.
3. I wouldn't want to scare him into doing something stupid(like killing me, because I'm on to him.)

Oh, yes, I'd argue one minute before the deadline. See the earlier linked game, where I did just that.

About that day's lynch?

You cannot expect me to argue against something which relies merely on a faulty interpretation.

This game is all about interpretation, Zind.

I think that any and all relevant information is beneficial, and I feel that the information was relevant to the game.

I see, you tried to change the subject again. It wasn't relevant, because in reality any effect is far too player-specific and minute to be a factor.

The only relevant part from the link are the first two days. After that, I died. That's up until page 17, pretty much.

I'm still not gonna read it.

You say it's scummy because it's worthless. Now, what is the worth of, for example, Posts 429 and 430?

Making me feel welcome is very much worthwhile(also: polite). In post 430 I signalled my attention to read the thread and thereby I let people know what to expect from me.

I would like to point out that Cadre, now Yos, who a lot of people think is Islamist, put the second vote on Shady. LyingBrian was #5.

A second vote on Day 1? Scummilicious. A fifth vote is far more important on Day 1, as it's part of turning the bandwagon into a lynch.

What better to do than to fuel a wagon Day One and later scoff at its usefulness, saying it was "just a Day One lynch"?

If the Day 1 lynch is the only thing that can be analyzed(ie. Day 2), such an argument can not carry much weight.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hence the only reason I can see for following on is bandwagoning, something I can see newbie islamists doing.

I think you mean "something I see awesome people doing."

So both town and scum were just as likely to jump onto that wagon. Hence I think this point is null. Besides if you believed this, why don't you point out the 3 other people who were also on that wagon?

I don't think so, I'd think townies'd be somewhat more careful. I've already explained why I'm focussing on Zind and Yosarian(because I think they're scum.)

I disagree with you on point 2.

My point 3 would be more along the lines of "needlessly limiting the lynch pool". I've got my top 2 suspects, I want to get them lynched. I've looked at everyone and I want those two dead. (I'll address Yos-Zind thing in a bit.)

Again many people did this, so why are you only attacking Zindaras for it but not the 4-5 other people who unvote Lyingbrian as well?

Because he should've(and would've if he were town) done better. Sorry spront, but I hold him to a higher standard. (Yos too.)

After rereading CES' posts, I noticed that he's pushing Zindaras very very hard yet pretty much left Yosarian2 alone even though throughout he maintains that he's building up a case against both (when in reality his case against Yosarian is quite weak).Also I'm getting the impression that CES is being much more aggressive to Zindaras then to Yosarian, even though according to him, they're both just as suspicious. In short, I don't like his case against Zindaras. I think he's just trying to pick crap to get rid of a townie so his islamists buddies can win quickly. Funny that he chose Zindaras over Yosarian, it seems like a ploy to make himself look more unbias while at the same time, going for the quick townie lynch.

It does look like I'm pushing Zind harder, but that's mostly because all I've done after I stated the original case against both of them, is reply to their comments and their arguments and Zind has simply done more of it. I'm voting for Zind, because of his initial reaction(directly calling everyone craplogic). I currently feel he is more suspicious than Yosarian.

Dude, bandwagons are a fact of life in Day 1s. This is covered in my point 3. And LyingBrian is who turned the bandwagon(a good thing) into a lynch(a bad thing).

Also:

As such I find it highly likely 5/7 voters in that wagon are islamists.

I have a feeling that estimate might be a tad too high.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So, basically, you're saying he's Communist, but you don't want him to kill you. This is preposterous. Only scum tries to hide their suspicions from others, as they are afraid of dying. As town, it's always the correct play to say who you think are scum.

I want thestatusquo to kill Islamists. If he thinks he's doomed, he might do all sorts of irrational things. And Today, we have to lynch Islamists, so his political affiliation is not very relevant currently. We have to realize that the Communist can screw over the town by making wrong kills. We need him to the right thing. I deliberate did not mention my suspicion of him, because I feel mentioning it has an expected negative value for the town.

Argueing against scumbag trying to no lynch, argueing against another guy who tried his best not to break the tie.

Those weren't arguments. You gave no reasons nor did you attempt to convince anyone. Also, your vote was at that point clearly more important. (It's arguing, btb.)

Not all of it is. There are some thing which are universally scummy. Your point against me is flawed.

Nuh-uh, it totally isn't.

Explain to me then, how it is possible for there to be several theory articles in the Wiki about tells for docs, cops and the like?

1. They are common roles, so it's no blind speculation.
2. Hidden knowledge, like cop results, are always hard to hide to some degree.
3. Power roles don't try to hide their real roles nearly as diligently as scum.
4. A lot of those tells are now redundant, except with crazy newbies.
5. They are distinct roles, with much clearer psychological results: you're speculating about the effect of not having a nightkill on a scum group. That's never going to accomplish anything.

I've got another game for you, though. Reverse Mafia (Mini 370). I speculated on the setup and that the scum would try desperately to force a scumbag into life Day One.

Which was directly relevant to the situation. Also: obvious.

Votes two through five, and mostly three and four, are in the danger territory.

Certainly not true on Day 1.

You are using the argument right now. You're ignoring the Day One lynch, while it is not, in any way, irrelevant.

Firstly, it's no longer Day 2, there are more things to analyze. Secondly I do not consider it an fruitful source of information because of several reasons, not just because Day 1 shenanigans were involved.

So, basically, your assertion is that LyingBrian, and only LyingBrian, was the one who made the lynch?

This is impossible, seeing how, even from your viewpoint, at least one of the other three votes from the first four are Islamist.

Basically, my assertion is that LyingBrian, and only LyingBrian, is responsible for actually getting ShadowLurker lynched. If it were not for him, it would've probably just remained an innocuous bandwagon.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Then how do you feel about the others who have posted who they think is Commie?

Even though it's the wrong move, it is a very understandable one. It's too bad they did, but I don't blame them.

Second post is argueing with DolArrah, who didn't break the tie. Last post is putting forth a theorema.

Neither a question nor a theorem constitutes an argument.

How can I possibly argue against something which essentially relies on nothing but interpretation?

You can certainly give reasons as to why your interpretation fits the facts of the case better.

There are more than enough instances where Survivor rules or mechanics were used. For example, Lights Out Mafia.

What you see in games like this is that scum will tactically lurk.

Scum did that in Lights Out, because they could get away with it, as a result of the survivor-rule. You can hardly compare it to this situation.

That's why there are also sections for scumtells in there, right?

I'm suggesting we look for scum. You're suggesting we look for Survivors, cultists, whatever.

Oh, this one is funny. Yes, very very funny. You're attacking me over not picking up cop tells from Nai, and here you are saying that tells are redundant except with crazy newbies, which, I may point out, Nai most definitely isn't.

A lot, not all. Also, you said you

did

see him as cop, so now you're contradicting yourself.

The speculations are comparable. In Reverse, I speculated on how the scum would play. Same here.

What you said essentially boiled down to: "Scum [really] want to lynch townies." It was directly relevant, as it affected how the town would deal with claims. It did not needlessly limit the lynch pool. It's very different.

I just pointed you to games where I used this, Day 1, to catch scum, so this is crap.

Seriously, second votes? You lynched someone based on that person placing a second vote? That should promote random voting(aka getting the game started).

So we should just ignore it because there are other things to analyze? Very, very narrow-minded. You're just using things that make your targets look scummy. You're ignoring everything else.

I looked at everything, I'm now making my case. Also, that quote was referencing my original quote on the matter.

Like?

Read back, I've already stated them.

How can it be innocuous if there is guaranteed scum driving the bus?

Because a 3-vote bandwagon is harmless.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also, if we assume they can do that, the fact that they haven't jumped on Zindaras yet would mean that at least one of CES or Zindaras is Islamist. It's curious that nobody else has mentioned that yet.

It's not really true though. Considering how active I am, attempting a quicklynch would not be a smart move and if the very unlikely is true and Zindaras is town, just like I am, then it doesn't look like it would be worth the risk.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Because it makes more sense, d'oh.

No, it doesn't?

This game is pretty lurkariffic. Have you not noticed that ever since you replaced in, the only real posting going on came from you, me and Yos? Sprontalic had a good post in between, but the rest is just sitting on their behinds and watching on.

Norinel has posted at least as much as Spront, Kingpin is getting replaced and TSQ is scum.

Zind, stop talking about ongoing games, because I can't respond to that. Did any of your references include claimed cops?

What I said in Reverse was that scum would try desperately to get scum revived Day 1 in fear of a Cop, and that they would

They would what?

No, I investigated someone because he was the second vote on a lynch. And he was scum. This is an approach that I use a lot when I've got Cop roles, and it tends to work out for me.

The scum on those forums sucked? You got lucky? There's nothing scummy about a second vote, hell I've argued that not placing a second vote can be scummy before.

You're doing nothing but making a case. You're not saying anything about other things. You're just bent single-mindedly on my lynch.

The important word in my quote was "now".

This is crap. LyingBrian cast the fifth vote, for one. For two, it cannot possibly be harmless if there's guaranteed scum on it. How can something which led to the death of a townie possibly be harmless?

What does LyingBrian's vote have to do with it? And scum can also do harmless things. The death of a townie was not the logical result of the bandwagon. Holding it responsible for the death is nonsensical.

And just how would I "know" that LB was a communist? Are you accusing me of being a communist now?

No. But LyingBrian was quite scummy, you know?

CES's whole plan that we can somehow make the communist feel comfertable and by doing so manipulate him into killing islamists has several obveous problems with it, and even if it didn't it dosn't match the way CES has actually acted today.

It's not really a plan. I simply asked myself whether it would be pro-town to share my suspicion of Thestatusquo and I felt it wasn't

Frankly, if you think someone might be a communist, the best thing to do might be to bandwagon them today and make them claim communist to avoid getting lynched; if we can pin down the identity of the communist today it should help the odds of an eventual town victory.

Claiming to be a Communist could only lead to them losing. The Communist can only win through getting the Islamists killed before the final day and then getting a Townie lynched. Your suggestion is dumb and anti-town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So we don't just lynch you when we run out of time? At least be honest about your motives, Z.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No, if we lynch anyone today, it should be an Islamist.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It should be clear that Yosarian is the one who accidentally editted Norinel's post, btb.
"Zinderas"+mod powers+"islamists"=Yosarian2.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yay! Go Apeiron! Vote for Zislamist!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'd rather lynch Zindy...

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yosarian, a vote for spront is not productive. We don't have the luxury to go around voting for who we think are scum willynilly Today. But a Vote for Zindaras is a Vote for Victory!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Now this is WIFOM, spront(well, it's more specifically SIFOM, but that's not the point.)

(Malcolm's getting soda. Sits next to Reese on couch)
Malcolm: here, I got you one too
Reese: Very Happy Thanks! Wait, you probably shook it up (swaps them)...
Malcolm: Neutral
Reese: ...but you knew I'd think that (swaps them back)
Malcolm: Neutral
Reese: But you knew I'd figure that out too! (swaps again) But you're smarter than me, so... (about to swap again)... I'm not smart enough for this (puts soda down, goes to fridge, opens a new soda, which explodes in his face)

It's the infinite cycle of outguessing that makes WIFOM what it is.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I think I'd be up for a Yosarian2-lynch.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Either of you have any actual reason for that?

Yes. My original reasons and the fact that you're pretending Cadre wasn't scummy.

Zind's vote is however making me reconsider as I'd still rather lynch Zind.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Dude, Yos, Cadre made up some crap about gut and then rode it to SL's lynch, even though his early vote was mostly based on his own inability to recognize sarcasm.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yeah, yeah, it's an oversimplification and he also had some semi-rational reasons, but it's basically true.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Nai said it was sarcasm, so it was explained to him.

Those reasons were decent enough for that time of Day, but not much more than that and he stuck to his guns and to his "gut" and rode it to a lynch.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So, again; his vote was fine, but you think I'm scum simply because a semi-lurking newbie didn't unvote when you think he should have during a day 1 bandwagon? And that's the best thing you guys have to go on on day 4?

His vote wasn't fine, it was acceptable. Don't twist my words, Yossyboy. And I'm not really suspicious of you because of Cadre's play, but rather the fact that you're pretending there was nothing wrong with it.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Unvote, vote: Yosarian2

, that last episode of word-twisting sealed it for me.

*hopes he's not wrong*

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Unvote

Explain to me how you can still win.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

(Also, I love it when scum confess(even if Yos might be lying), it's awesome)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Nah, that sounds unlikely.

Anyhow, what about a no lynch today? If Yosarian2 is the Communist, he can kill Zislamist for us and if he's not, the real Communist can kill Yosarian2 for us. Right?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No, if Yommunist is smart, he'll probably kill whoever he wants. Currently, that would probably we sprontalic, true, but I can always try and convince him before the deadline.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No, he should kill you.

Die!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Oh snap, you're right.

So, um, we should no-lynch to prove (or disprove, of course) Yosarian2 is the Communist.

Vote: no lynch

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why not get 100% certainty, aye?

I believe you though. Your confession sounded sincere.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It's time to drop the ====[], people!

Woohoo!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Because we'll have another Day then, duh.

It's hammahtime, baby!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Finger of Approval: spront

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Of course we're going to lynch someone tomorrow. We're no-lynching with a damn good reason.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vote: Zindy

FoS: Thestatislamist

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Of course you can, opportunistic scumbag.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Where did that come from?

I challenge you to a duel!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Points were magically disappearing from our argument back there.

Because they were either irrelevant or simply a matter of opinion.

Anyhow, that's not what a strawman is. At all.

Mod

, would you allow us to play a game of RAF as a duel? (It need not end with Zindaras actually dying.)

No, but if you use the dice tags and agree on who rolls, you can almost accomplish it on your own.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Okay, no deaths. I know that it is a risk, but we really should lynch today or we'll get nowhere. The Communist is clearly not going to kill at night if this continues, and I think taking the day chance is better anyway.

That is the plan, yes. (Vote for Zindaras.)

Just a little correction on yesterdays vote count: I did vote, for No Lynch (it says I didn't vote)

Your vote wasn't counted because we had already reached a majority.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Mod

, would you allow us to play a game of RAF as a duel? (It need not end with Zindaras actually dying.)

No, but if you use the dice tags and agree on who rolls, you can almost accomplish it on your own.

RAF is an intricate game of strategy and outguessing one another. It is a battle between the power of statistics and gut. How are we supposed to emulate that with dice?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You were letting points drop to make your argument seem stronger.

You're going to have to back up that allegation with examples.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I believe if day reaches the point where it's one from each faction it's an automatic islamist win (the first post doesn't provide this senario, but from the wording of the islamists role, I think this is the case).

I don't think so. More importantly, Yosarian2 apparently doesn't think so. The Islamists essentially need to be 50% of the remaining players. A 3-way endgame would not constitute a tie, as such. I'm not sure what would happen though, I'll be honest.

And it's a silly claim for an Islamist to make, because it will only end up getting him nightkilled. Remember, the biggest threat to the Commie right now is the Islamists.

Also, Yostownie does not lie to the town. I'm sure of that.

There are very solid reasons for me to believe Yos is the Communist and I'm not the only one. I'm sure Zind agrees with me on that issue, even if he hasn't explicitly said it.

And I'm trying to lynch Zind here, not TSQ.

FoS: spront

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If the last commie is TSQ, the best action he can make is to keep Y2 alive. Because if he nightkilled him last night, there's no need to lynch an islamist today hence he'd definately be on the chopping blocks, insuring his loss.

If TSQ is the last commie, then he would need to get Yosarian2 killed somehow. We aren't going to lynch him like this, so he will have to kill him.

His lynch was imminent, it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to do it in order to give the town a chance to survive. As they say desperate times call for desperate measures. Although a lie would mean he'll likely die for it later, but at least it'll still give them a slime chance of winning whereas if he was lynched yesterday, they're chance of winning is 0%.

It's still not something Yostownie would do.

Doesn't matter, the fact that you said "Thestatislamist" tells me that you're automatically assuming that TSQ is not a commie but rather an islamist. That assumption is too easy to make.

I do think TSQ is an Islamist, but your accusation that I'm going after an easy target becomes moot when I'm not trying to get him lynched today.

Anyhow, why are you only suspicious of me as a result of trust in Yosarian2 but not of Zind?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes that's true, but the obvious play for TSQ is to not kill Y2 last night since that leaves him open today, am I right? Actually Y2's claim could be highly beneficial to him because by leaving Y2 alive, he can take the hit for him on a day where it's unnecessary to lynch islamist.

I think killing Yosarian2 is a far more realistic approach. Otherwise he needs us to lynch an Islamist today and he would need to kill an Islamist(but not Yosarian2) during the night, which would be an incredible achievement. It's avoiding getting lynched versus nailing 2 scumbags in a row.

But your complete ignorance in Y2's claim (which really wasn't that hard to figure out) is a completely anti-town act.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

Now you're just trying to misrepresent him. Just because Zind didn't express that he didn't trust Y2, doesn't mean that he actually does. He never said anything about Y2 definately being communist or TSQ definately being islamist. He never made a claim for either way which tells me absolutely nothing about what he thinks about Y2's claim. For all I know he's thinking like me or like you. But the fact that he didn't say anything conclusion tells me that he's unsure.

He never made an implicit claim either way because noone seemed to doubt that Yosarian2 was the last Communist. I'm confident that he does trust Yos' claim, because I'm sure he would've said something if that was not the case. The fact that you placed a vote on me in this situation without bothering to check Zind's position is highly suspect.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If you're town, unvote and explain to me why just voted for me.

If you're an Islamist, keep your vote there.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Spront, why o why didn't you just kill Yosarian2?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Pfft, I was on to both of you.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It was mostly the cop thing and the way you reacted to my accusations(too vehemently).

If spront had killed Yosarian2, I think the town would've had a decent chance.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

'Twas a good setup, that I agree.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Attempting to quicklynch when you still need three votes is quite risky. Even despite that that could just as easily point to me and spront.