Mini 388: DOOMsville II {Game Over!}

[MrBuddyLee]

Hi, I'm in for Sotty. Reading.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: kilmenator

[MrBuddyLee]

I can usually smell the difference between scum legitimately suspecting me and scum trying to misdirect attention away from their partners. I think kilmenator's suspicion of me is overblown, and the timing and intensity makes me suspect he is protecting Ozy.

I don't have a problem with gerain or Patrick at all.

[MrBuddyLee]

That's geraint, sorry. And I am also wary of Adele, who I believe has maintained a single focus thus far in this game.

[MrBuddyLee]

What do you think Adele single focus has been and why do you think she has had that focus.

Pretty sure you're not reading the game carefully. Scum is much more likely to read carelessly.

Scum is also not likely to write that sentence you wrote to attract attention to a relationship between them and their partner. So I'm going to operate for now on the belief that Ozy and kil are scum and Adele is not.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL you are completely avoiding giving any logically reasonings for any of your opinions. If your logic holds true about the relationship with Adele and I, then why doesnt it hold true with Ozy and I?

Here's the most interesting post of the game to date. I never commented on a relationship between you and Adele, kil. Why would you have that relationship in mind if I didn't mention it?

Checking your posts, you've avoided mentioning Adele/falc and your only comment about them is a weird scummish fence-sit.

I'm now willing to believe you've either made a freudian slip and are partners with Adele or are scum drawing a favorable connection. Much more likely the former.

I really don't buy the "not reading properly = scum" routine. There is nothing to suggest that townies wouldn't be lazy, nothing to suggest townies have better reading comprehension than scum, etc etc. The argument about scum only reading what concerns them isn't particularly true either, because there are definitely 'naturally defensive' townies.

Townies don't "operate on beliefs", they keep their mind open and remain eternally curious until the scum are dead.

This is horsecrap. Scum know who scum are and have to fake the effort to make it look like they're curious. It's not easy to do and I think most lazy scum simply skip it. Town is curious but may be lazy about it. There's a difference, and it's sometimes REALLY easy to spot.

And I'll stick with my scumhunting techniques that work for me, tyvm. I'll treat scum like scum and town like town until and unless my hunches change.

Still waiting for Ozymandius but I would also support votes for MBL at this point.

This seems really fake, like it was included just to inspire sympathy.

I suppose if I'm busing Ozy, I should vote for him.

vote: Ozy

And Turbo, why the kilmenator protection? You truly saw no merit in my observations and decided a counterattack was appropriate? Your post history regarding kilmenator looks like a vicious attempt to flog him with kid gloves.

[MrBuddyLee]

Cool, we have some confirmed innocents or guilties. Who wants to go first?

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm not in the habit of claiming my role when one person finds me scummy. If I'm vanilla, that helps scum find a power role. If I'm a power role, that helps scum figure out who to kill. Let's get some info out on the table and see some accusations fly. If you find me scummy, make your case.

Why, for example, is no one commenting on the makeup of the Ozy lynch? The first thing I did when he came up townish was reread to see who made a scummy attempt to get Ozy lynched. I find it odd that kil and Patrick avoided making such comments.

[MrBuddyLee]

kil, you do understand why outing power roles or forcing vanilla claims early is a bad idea, right? I don't think you'd make this as a gambit as scum, but if you're town you'd better reconsider the implications of your actions thus far.

[MrBuddyLee]

Tell you what, it's obvious from kil's post that I have a night action, so I won't bother hiding that. I'll add that I may know why there was no NK last night. If you guys really want to push this, go for it, but I can only see it causing a huge mess. I'm going to go back to finding scum, and I don't think kil or Ozy are it, which narrows things a bit.

[MrBuddyLee]

Kil can apparently only confirm my night target, at least that's what it reads like. Problem is, there could be other explanations for the lack of nightkill besides my action. So I don't see any way to confirm me or the alignment of my target today. Kil appears protown due to "enthusiasm" alone--a tracking role could theoretically be scum.

If ShadowLurker realizes his last remaining scumpartner got caught making a kill, this could be his best move. Establish trust with the townies he confirms and "believe" the claims of the others. Lynch the unclaimed/unconfirmed. The final scum will probably need to get us to make three mislynches in order to win. I'd bet on SL being town, but it's not a certainty.

Massclaim? Pie would be proud of you for proposing it, but I think it's a tad premature.

[MrBuddyLee]

Kilmenator, I have a question for you.

You knew there was no kill last night, you knew my night target, and yet you assumed I was scum? Can you please explain why you jumped to that conclusion based on your result? It just struck me that your decision doesn't make a lot of sense.

[MrBuddyLee]

I really want to know who did that, but I don't think it's a good idea for them to step forward unless that was a 1-shot.

[MrBuddyLee]

If Kil's scum she'd have to be scum with a tracking ability. I believe the mod's been a tracker in a few games, but never as scum. Not sure if he'd pull that flip on us... a tracking scum would be useful for their team, however.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm not sure, but I only have one theory about why there was no NK last night and kil's story jives with that. It's entirely possible that someone else is (wisely) staying quiet.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm concerned that you're so willing to trust me, gerain.

[MrBuddyLee]

aargh, geraint, sorry.

[MrBuddyLee]

Just one? I can think of three (doc protection, blocked scum, NK-immune target) off the top of my head using standard roles, two of which a tracker could partially confirm.

I'll operate on the most likely one til there's more evidence. There could definitely be another explanation but the odds for now favor me operating based on mine.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yeah, it's a pretty big scumtell when you trust an unconfirmed player too much, and Adele noticed the same thing I did.

[MrBuddyLee]

And kilm and MBF have both claimed power roles.

I haven't claimed a power role... it was claimed for me.

I think geraint, klebian and Turbo are most likely to be scum. If we lynch those three I think we hit two and win, and if there's a vig, even better. Let's reach a consensus.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: geraintm

[MrBuddyLee]

What's a watchman do?

[MrBuddyLee]

Definitely not excited about the people advocating wasting another lynch on Ozy. Sure, there's a chance he's scum, but is it likely? It's a play that doesn't make sense for protown players to push.

He's the only one of our semi-confirmed townies the scum could reastically get a lynch on. I think they're taking pokes at doing just that.

[MrBuddyLee]

the reason i ask is because if you look at the set up of the other game, once people were lynched they became on the opposite side instead of dying. so for example, if XXX were a protownie and we lynched him, XXX would not die he would come back as a player for scum

This game had a scum godfather, which is a pretty huge advantage for scum. I'd be surprised if they got an additional benefit from recruiting dead townies to their side.

[MrBuddyLee]

By the way, if kilm's claimish thingy is true, we had two watcher/trackerish roles on the town side. Possible, but atypical.

[MrBuddyLee]

Lynching Ozy a second time would be a bizarre choice. If he dies, he's scum, if he doesn't, we still wouldn't know a thing more about his alignment.

I think we need to assess his play and determine his scumminess that way, because lynching him for his claim is more of a desperation play.

[MrBuddyLee]

Autoload made the same play as town in a newbie game he replaced into. I'm thinking that as a newbie he has yet to understand the value of patience in these games.

Shadowlurker, in my opinion you should just crack this game open for us. You're guaranteed another day investigation tomorrow, and we should trust you unless/until you lead us astray. Give us a scum a day, that's all we ask.

[MrBuddyLee]

"Confirmed innocent" by SL:

SL, Norinel, Adele, geraint

Remaining: turbo, autoload, kilmenator

I'll roll with turbovolver and kilmenator as the final two scum. I just don't see Ozy's claim and role as scummy in the least.

We get another result from SL tomorrow. I say we lynch turbo or kil, if they turn up town we lynch the other one tomorrow. If we hit 1/2 we're at lynch or lose: 4 remaining, one scum, and we decide between SL and his guilty result. The only way this plan fails is if the scumteam is ShadowLurker+autoload. If both kil+turbo are scum, we win.

If there's a daykill available, that's a possibility as well. There's still a chance the daykill was performed by an SK I suppose, but I think they'd be a pretty underpowered SK if that's the case.

[MrBuddyLee]

At this point, either SL's gambitting scum or two of {kil, ozy, turbo} are scum. In my mind, there's no (c).

Rereads of SL's play lead me to believe he had no reason to make that move at that time as scum. It's possible, but unlikely.

Of {kil, ozy, turbo} there are several ways to look at it:

* turbo's acted the least scummy.
* ozy's confirmed role looks the least scummy. (how can town kill him if he's unlynchable)
* a tracker role is rarely scummy.

So if I decide that SL's likely gg, I have to roll with one of those three assumptions.

In this game with a billion power roles, I can see a scumtracker as useful to their side. If scum don't have powers, I don't see M-M willing to off the godfather as readily as he did.

Turbo's a good player, I could conceivably see him appearing pro-town when he's not. There's nothing in his voting pattern that makes him any more pro-town than anyone else.

Ozy/autoload hasn't acted particularly protown. But for Ozy to be unlynchable scum, the mod would have to have placed the fate of the game squarely in a vigilante's hands, which I don't see as reasonable.

Given all those options, I conclude that kil is a scum tracker and turbo is probably scum concealing his scum power role.

[MrBuddyLee]

Since I am a pro-town tracker, that logic does not work. If you are willing to bet that my role is unlikely but saying it is true, wouldnt that logic hold true to ozy's role as well? Doesnt really make much sense.

For Ozy to be unlynchable scum, we'd have to accept that the only way to kill him is to vig him. If the vig dies, Ozy would be unkillable.

For you to be scum, we have to accept that a claimed tracker is scum and not town, which seems unlikely but not as unlikely as the above scenario.

For turbo to be scum we'd have to accept that he's played well.

The fact that MBL has not yet been NKed leads me to believe that he is either scum or scum has been RB'ed at night. I dont know, with so many power roles, this game is insanely crazy!

Doesn't this apply to anyone who's alive? Someone got kill-targeted and the kill failed. (Or scum didnt turn in a kill.) I'd actually think unconfirmed players are less likely to be nightkilled, so I'm not sure why my survival surprises you.

[MrBuddyLee]

Even that proves that I would be pro town because I have not targetted you yet, and I think I have a pretty good idea of your role.

Wait, you tried to force me to roleclaim on D2 based on some info you had. Now you say you didn't target me yet? The only possible conclusion I can reach is that you tracked someone else to my house on the night no one died, and assumed that person was a roleblocker who blocked me, the killer. Which is not only grossly incorrect, but doesn't seem even remotely likely enough of a possibility to try to force a claim out of someone. Wouldn't I be just as likely or more so to be the target as the killer?

OK, your actions throughout this game are making less and less sense from a pro-town perspective, leading me to believe you've been lying about them. Town's actions usually follow a simple consistency: "X was scummy d1 so I investigated them. I got a guilty so im forcing a claim." Your actions don't seem the least bit consistent.

[MrBuddyLee]

One scum remaining, Shadowlurker has 4 results. Game's essentially over.

I say we play to find scum today, then if we don't nail it down today he hands us our final scum tomorrow. If he's wrong, we lynch him.

Do the math, I'm pretty sure it works.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: kilmenator

Turbo's next if she comes up town, in my opinion.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ozy was killed by a serial killer, I think. In retrospect, he was axed right after I expressed the difficulty scum would have in getting him killed, and I think an SK probably looked at that and said, "Shit, I can't win as long as that guy's in the game so he'd might as well go now." The alternate explanation is that town looked at him and suddenly decided he was the scummiest player in the game, and no one's remotely expressed that thought besides kil, who claims not to have killed Ozy. It looks like an SK dayvig kill.

A game start with three scum and one player capable of being converted to scum would be unbalanced against town. That's four scum out of twelve players with no prospect for a cross-kill--just not reasonable. There could be four scum plus an SK, but that also makes things dire for town, who could be close to lynch or lose after night one.

So it's either two original scum plus one recruit plus an SK or two original scum plus one recruit vs a town with a vig. With Mert (godfather) dead and Ozy (recruit) dead, it's most likely there's a scum and an SK remaining.

If there are two scum left and SL is a real cop, then those scum are kil and Turbo. If there's just one scum left, they're probably not an SK, they're pure mafia.

SL could also be a naive cop. Or scum. His failure to identify a single scumbag in three tries is notable.

[MrBuddyLee]

No, I'm not going to claim yet. If we have a vig, a doc and/or an RB you've already done enough damage this game by painting a clearer and clearer picture for scum. In the event that ShadowLurker is actually a naive cop or an SK, a massclaim would be extremely unhealthy for us at this point.

Seriously, everyone should reread the thread and see who had motive to daykill Patrick and Ozy. Our fate in this game relies upon determining whether those kills are pro-town or anti-town.

[MrBuddyLee]

If Adele, kilmenator or geraint are the daykiller, they're SK not vig:

Ok, wasn't expecting that. I leave for the weekend for some Choas and come back to another ded body.
I went back and looked over Patrick's posts quickly, and all i basically got from it was it felt like a townie without an especially powerful, active role just trying to stay out of the way.
Why whoever it was with a kill decided upon him, i can't think. Patrick seemed harmless to me...

The problem I'm having here is, it's doubtful there is an SK considering how the night's have gone.

I'm not certain, but I think there is an SK.

for the most part I thought he was a pro-town player. I almost thought him as a cop because of this post.

Norinel avoided comment on Patrick's death, Turbo was on Patrick before Patrick's death. Kil's made it pretty clear I'm not the daykiller. That leaves ShadowLurker, who would also have to be scum if he's the daykiller due to the fact that a cop+dayvig role is overpowered and thus he'd have to be lying about the cop part if he has killing privileges.

Summarizing, if the daykiller's Norinel or Turbo, they could be either SK or vig. If the daykiller's kil, Adele, SL or geraint, they're an SK.

I'll leave it at this point up to Norinel and Turbo to decide whether or not they think it's wise to claim or deny daykiller. If NEITHER of you is, confirmation of that will be evidence of an SK in the game, which is something we would benefit from knowing.

As for scum, same arguments as before apply. One of {kil, MBL, turbo} or SL's naive/scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't have to claim squat, cause if I do it'll potentially put others in danger as well. You're either scum pressing for information or you're town letting your curiosity get the best of you.

We need to get people on the record about what they "think" we're up against before they get a chance to change their stories.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd like to see everyone's opinions on the following:

Who are your candidates, in order, for last remaining mafia member and why?

Is the daykiller SK or vig? Why?

If SK, who is it?

There will be four people remaining after tomorrow's daykill. If we don't hit scum today, that could very well be one scum one SK and two town, and we'd be close to fucked.

If we DO hit scum today, we'll probably be down to an SK and three town, which is still lynch or lose. So I'd like to see people on the record about both scum and SK, because some people appear to be in a rush to avoid those topics, get a quick kill in and move on to tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

You're blind. Reread my posts lol, I've stated who I think scum are and who I think might be SK if we have one.

[MrBuddyLee]

From yesterday:

Summarizing, if the daykiller's Norinel or Turbo, they could be either SK or vig. If the daykiller's kil, Adele, SL or geraint, they're an SK.

I'll leave it at this point up to Norinel and Turbo to decide whether or not they think it's wise to claim or deny daykiller. If NEITHER of you is, confirmation of that will be evidence of an SK in the game, which is something we would benefit from knowing.

As for scum, same arguments as before apply. One of {kil, MBL, turbo} or SL's naive/scum.

So you and turbo are my candidates for the final scum. You, Adele, SL and geraint are my candidates for a daykilling SK if there is one.

[MrBuddyLee]

You're dancing around here, kil. Do you think Turbo is scum or SK, and what's your reasoning? Do you think SL or his targets (geraint, Norinel, Adele) could be scum or SK or neither?

And why are you cleared in the least? Scum and SK will likely have powers in addition to killing ability. Your big theory is that I'm a mafia who can

kill and recruit

and yet you try to pretend like because you can track you can't kill?

Horsefeathers.

[MrBuddyLee]

Wow, this game has gone bonkers.

I will repeat that a massclaim is a terrible idea. There are almost certainly two anti-town killers remaining given the amount of town power we see claimed or hinted at or turned up dead so far. We won't be nailing both killers before dawn and in fact may be nailing neither. In the meantime, scum will have to choose between a lucky shot for the scum of opposite alignment or shooting for a tasty power role. I'm pretty sure they'll shoot for the best power roles given that opportunity. A massclaim just makes that shot easier for them to optimize.

I've managed to maintain ambiguity about my role because it keeps me from being the obvious gank. I wish more of you would catch a clue and see what's going on here--I can't spell it out any more clearly.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ha. It's only a bad thing if they're pro-town. I suspect they're bad guy, why don't you, SL?

[MrBuddyLee]

the only person who could have day killed, that isnt cleared is turbo, because mine is a night ability and so is MBL's.

SKs are quite often investigation immune.

Your logic hasn't been this stellar this game, kil. The main reason I'm having trouble voting for you is because I play based more on posting style than pure logic because I think townies can often make logical mistakes. Right now, both scum and SK are probably hoping for a fast lynch of anyone who's not them, because then it'll be lynch or lose tomorrow and anything goes. If you're town, your faulty logic is giving them room to make bad plays and tomorrow say "oops my bad but I guess I just followed kil incorrectly

vote: kil

". Or you're scum.

If someone quickhammers me without asking the right questions first, please make them a prime suspect tomorrow.

Please note that the three people on me right now are 3/4 of the prime candidates for SK. All three have played shakily and borderline anti-town this game, and SL is only getting the benefit of the doubt because he's a claimed cop.

Personally, I have reason to believe geraint is the surest good guy amongst the three.

If you lynch me now you'll be lynch or lose tomorrow with 4 remaining (the final scum and one SK left). My advice is to look most carefully at Adele, turbo, kilmenator, and carefully evaluate SL's play independent of his claim if they're alive by then.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm absolutely not taking issue with your playstyle--you post a lot and that allows people to gauge your words, which is most important by far. If people make logical mistakes and errors and then explain them away satisfactorily, it's all good.

For example, you just suggested that I claim so that if I get hammered you'll have more information on me. When I get hammered, you'll get my role from the mod, so the point of me claiming would be something else entirely. The pro would be that you'll understand what my deal has been. The con would be that scum will be able to figure out one, maybe two power roles via my claim. I weighed the prospects and I don't think it's wise to do that, I'd rather appeal to logic and try to convince town that lynching me's the wrong decision. If I die then the cat's out of the bag anyway and I've "claimed" posthumously.

I'll only claim if at least four people think it's wise. That way I know that at least two other townies have considered the logic and decided it's in the best interests of town. In one game I played with M-M, a doc refused to claim on principle and got lynched. I won't take this that far but I will make sure I don't do anything that hurts town.

Norinel, Adele and turbo could hammer me right now I believe. Norinel, you're the only one I see doing it, but I hope you'll take the time to talk things through before doing anything hasty.

[MrBuddyLee]

Adele hasn't expressed suspicions with reasons behind them in quite some time. She's against a massclaim and believes there's an SK. She's expressed a willingness to lynch kil but has given no reasons that I've spotted reading back a few weeks.

If SL's gg and the SK is investigation immune, this town's in big trouble because we've been giving too many people free passes for too long.

I don't think SL can be SK in retrospect, because if he was, he wouldn't know who it was safe to proclaim as innocent. If he gambled and one of {Adele, Norinel, geraint} was scum, they'd know he was a fake (or less likely naive) cop and axe him. So I no longer think there's a reasonable chance that SL is SK, leaving him as scum or more likely, gg.

So Adele, geraint or kil (possibly but less likely Norinel or turbo) are SK. One of {kil, turbo, MBL} is scum unless SL gambitted as scum, which doesn't make sense.

There's a lot to analyze and it's not happening. Scum and SK are clearly laying low hoping not to get on each other's radar.

[MrBuddyLee]

Norinel hasn't expressed a real suspicion in a while either. He's given us a few hypotheses but not commented on which he sees as plausible.

When SL clamied cop and proclaimed Norinel innocent, Nor's posts over the next week were to express suspicion of ShadowLurker (healthy in and of itself) but curiously also added:

I'm a little surprised nobody's going after me for not posting thoughts on specific people

When you're confirmed innocent by a "cop", people tend to not go after you very hard, and it's curious that you'd find that surprising. I've said the same thing before in search of scum, but never when I've been a "confirmed".

Norinel, can you please summarize your thoughts on the gamestate and various alignments? What's your take on SL and his three cleared individuals? What's your take on the daykills? If I get lynched and turn up town, do you think you have a chance to salvage the game at that point, and if not, why aren't you trying harder to get today's lynch right?

[MrBuddyLee]

Well unless it's you, I'm not going to buy your hunch. If you're believing they're town based on your investigation only, I think you're being naive. And I don't think the kills themselves look entirely pro-town reasoned, at least as reasoned in thread. No one made a compelling case for Patrick and Ozy to be scum before they died as far as I know.

You kind of stopped playing once you claimed and you've been letting everything ride on that.

[MrBuddyLee]

Adele, saying I have a free pass with three votes on me is laughable.

I also think you're doing a magnificent job of dodging my questions about an SK daykiller. You know perfectly well the reasoning by which I arrive at that conclusion, and yet you try to paint me as anti-town because I think daykilling Ozy was WAY sketchy, and added to the daykill of Patrick, it looks like we have an SK, which means that YES, the killing of Ozy and Patrick is anti-town.

If I die, I suggest you all look carefully at Adele... she's far and away the #1 SK candidate at the moment. I still think kilmenator or turbo are the final nightkilling scum.

Sure, I'll claim if anyone else buys your arguments. You won't be happy with the results, but meh, it's better than a lynch.

[MrBuddyLee]

because ozy was obviously a good lynch, since he was scum.

This is not a logical conclusion. I didn't see that it made sense to do it. The outcome was a surprise.

[MrBuddyLee]

Well, put it this way.

If the people thinking that were town, they should have said so in town discussion, right? "I think Ozy's scum."

Look back and see if anyone did that. I don't think they did, other than you. So when he was killed, it's a sign that someone sneaky did it, implying that the daykiller is an SK.

And I still hold that the reason he was killed is because he can't be lynched, and thus a threat to scum of any flavor. Right before he was ganked I pointed that out and BOOM, the SK nailed him.

Adele, before I claim please let me know if this line of reasoning makes sense.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm more the type of vig who looks for town approval. If no one but me thinks a guy's scum, I have to be pretty confident in order to kill someone and randomize the game like that.

I'll look into those quotes, maybe I got confused but we'll see.

[MrBuddyLee]

So my claiming is the only thing that'll move this game forward?

Man you guys are lazy.

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't see any other way to move forward at this point, and I don't want this game to get dull. I think it's too late for scum to overcome our lead now, but we'll see. I delayed because I was looking for clues in the way people talked about the different day and night kills to see who might let on about their targets. Scum have clearly been blocked by the doc two nights in a row and I thought someone might stumble when talking about their night target.

I know there's a doctor, but I'm not him. I'm the

protown insomniac vigilante

. I have to kill once a day in the daytime or nighttime.

Day one I replaced in, night one I didn't buy the unlynchable town bit and decided that Ozy was >50% scum so I tried to gank him. I was blocked by either a doctor or a roleblocker, and the kill didn't go through. Since I wasn't particularly scummy at the time, I'm 95% sure we have a doctor. Since scum's kill also didn't go through, I'm thinking they targeted Ozy as well.

Once I realized that we had a doc, and soon after realized we had a cop, top priority became to protect the doctor at all costs. Kil provided the opportunity. So I hinted at knowing why there were no nightkills, trying to pull the flak. Every night the doctor survives is another night of free investigations. There's no SK in this game--we're after a scumteam that's probably down to one.

I'll be happy to kill whoever you guys want tonight or tomorrow to prove my ability.

I expect scum to try and get me lynched quickly and then to try and ferret out the doc and kill him/her tonight. That would leave five of you tomorrow and one scum, and you'll have to decide whether or not to believe ShadowLurker. Personally, I think the timing of his play makes him town. I don't think the game's balanced if he's town, because the doc-cop-vig combo is so powerful, but I do think he's played a pro-town game thus far.

If I get quicklynched, look at Kil, Turbo or SL as your final scum tomorrow, in that order. The way Adele's played, she really doesn't look like town this game, but since there's no SK, she can only be scum if Shadowlurker's naive. Heed that as my final advice to you if/when you see my role come up at sunset tonight.

[MrBuddyLee]

I know there's a doctor, but I'm not him. I'm the

protown insomniac vigilante

. I have to kill once a day in the daytime or nighttime.

No one day one, didn't understand the situation well enough to vig.
Night one, ozy.
Day two, Patrick.
Day three, ozy.

[MrBuddyLee]

Correct.

[MrBuddyLee]

Adele, you have a longstanding policy about lynching all liars. I'm fascinated to see you abandon it so conveniently right now and ignore kilmenator's transgression.

Please elaborate on your inconsistency.

(And note the quicklynch in motion.)

[MrBuddyLee]

Couple things off the top of my head, kil.

First, you seem to be missing the point of my deception and my behavior towards Ozy. I tried to vig him, got blocked, realized scum apparently also got blocked, and concluded that Ozy was town who scum tried to off N1. So after that I was defending Ozy as town, poking at the people who tried too aggressively to lynch him, and thanks to you, explaining away my actions in a way that protected the real doctor, who may still be alive partially due to the confusion I created around the whole claim situation. I'm guessing the real doc protected me or ShadowLurker N2, and that's why there was no kill that night.

Second, you're missing the point of the Patrick/SK chatter--it was to disguise the fact that I'm a vig in case it came down to a small number of players at endgame. You kind of forced all this on me by prematurely revealing that you tracked me N1, the kind of move that really cramps a vig's style and makes it easier for scum to identify other power roles by process of elimination.

Like I said, you don't have to trust me. But if you give me a vig target I'll prove to you that I am who I say I am. (As best I can.)

[MrBuddyLee]

Kil, please claim your "new" night result. I didn't place any orders last night, due to having used my ability during daytime, so I'm fascinated to see what you'll come up with.

If kil's claiming I took a night action last night, then she's scum of some kind. Flat out.

This doesn't seem to jibe with what you were saying eariler, I have to say. Also, the suggestion that there's one scum left out there... are you trying to say the game started with a scum team of 2? Seems unlikely.

Since I wasn't particularly scummy at the time, I'm 95% sure we have a doctor. Since scum's kill also didn't go through, I'm thinking they targeted Ozy as well.

wouldn't Ozy have been vamp'd by then?

I think Ozy could have been converted any of several nights, but I didn't have that information available when I vigged him the first time. Kil's right, she wasn't the first one to raise the recruiting theory, but someone else did, I forget who.

Turbo, Norinel, ShadowLurker, it's all on the table now. Need your input.

[MrBuddyLee]

Kil's a she, and naturally I'm not impressed to see people going after the vig. It's the kind of behavior I'd expect from scum... to try and knock protown kills down from two a day to one a day right away.

And that nonsense about kil implying anything... she stated her claimed target plainly as day, I believe. You sure are stretching to achieve your desired goal, Adele, rather than following where the logic leads you.

I repeat, my role is provable. I'll vig whoever you want, probably kil if she comes out with a phony result, and if the game's not over, axe me or try again. It's not complicated. We whack two potential scum a day and they only get one of us. It's a no-brainer, it seems.

Need to hear from everyone on the current situation, don't let people skate by without comment regardless of your prejudices. If you take hasty action I guarantee you you'll be in hot water tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

Let's let everyone weigh in, I'm not going anywhere.

[MrBuddyLee]

OK, I called your bluff. I didn't do anything last night and stood my ground in the face of your disinformation. If I was scum I'd have made up a story to explain away your "claimed" night result, but I'm not, and I think you just tried to pull a fast one on us.

And wow, asking the doctor to come forward at this point is just not protown at all. It really looks like you're lining up a set of kills, kil. Lynch the vig, nk the doc and hope against hope you can persuade town the cop is scum tomorrow.

My suspicions haven't changed much today. kil, turbo or SL. That stuff about Adele and Norinel was baloney to cover my knowledge that there is no SK. They can't be scum unless SL is naive, which is possible but not likely, particularly given these recent events.

[MrBuddyLee]

Doc and cop actions don't typically match up with their play, or else they'd get nailed every time N1.

As for your "trap" you set, if you got caught in your lie and I got lynched as town, you couldn't win cause you'd get lynched right away tomorrow. You realized your gambit failed and you backed out before you got caught, and now you're looking for a way to get me killed without being proven any more of a truth-stretcher than you already are. Or you're nutty town--there are plenty of other townies besides me who can help gauge that.

[MrBuddyLee]

Kil, your "evidence" against me mostly consists of "you tried to disguise your power role" by making misleading statements. And you misled town intentionally and we have no way of knowing if you'd have corrected yourself if you hadn't been caught. But the bottom line is I've been making cases against the most likely scum for two days now and right now that's you and Turbo, followed by Shadow Lurker. If we lynch one today and I vig one tomorrow, we can lynch the third tomorrow for a fairly certain win. (Or you can lynch me.)

You sound frustrated that things turned around on you, but you're the one who's been recklessly pushing me to claim all game, and it shouldn't surprise you that my outing brings some heat upon you.

[MrBuddyLee]

Far more damning though is the work kilmenator has done here. I found particularly convincing the stuff about MBL saying he looks for town approval (and then not), and also that he killed Ozy after proclaiming him likely protown. His explanation there seemed too clever, like it was a complicated story he came up with just to fit the pieces.

You clearly haven't read the thread very carefully... here are two of my posts from the same page as the daykill of Ozy:

Ozy/autoload hasn't acted particularly protown. But for Ozy to be unlynchable scum, the mod would have to have placed the fate of the game squarely in a vigilante's hands, which I don't see as reasonable.

For Ozy to be unlynchable scum, we'd have to accept that the only way to kill him is to vig him. If the vig dies, Ozy would be unkillable.

So the smart move was to vig Ozy, it just took me a while to realize it. If I didn't, and he was scum, we couldn't win the game.

I swear, you guys aren't trying very hard. I'd suspect all of you for being so careless, except I know you can't all be scum. At least I think you all can't... >.> Is the argument here that I'm daykilling nightkilling scum? Because I could have sworn a few of you said earlier you thought the daykiller was protown. Flip-flop much?

[MrBuddyLee]

It should have been "tomorrow or tomorrow night".

Adele, to make my point I ask: why were you "pretty sure" there was an SK? The only evidence to base that on was the Patrick and Ozy kills. When I saw you say that, it's not like I could be obvious about there being a vig and not an SK, so naturally I had to couch my statements somewhat. I don't think what I said took away from the main focus of the game, as I've been consistently trying to narrow down who scum can be and keep the focus on that. But people who don't discuss the possibility of an SK give themselves away.

Any player who makes a big whoop about there being an SK is clearly not the vig, is what you're saying. In my book, scum goes after any player who sounds too certain that there's a vig. For example, you said "I'm pretty sure there's an SK" or something to that effect. If you'd been the vig, you'd expect us to lynch you for that?

[MrBuddyLee]

Norinel I'm not as worried about though I'd like to see his opinion and his vote will matter a lot. He can pretty much only be scum if SL is naive.

SL on the other hand has posted in 6 of his other games since his last post here five days ago:

I feel like I have a good guess who the daykiller is and I feel like I feel like they're town.

He appears to be specifically avoiding this game... and I find that suspect considering the revelations of the past three days. There's a lot to discuss, so why hide?

[MrBuddyLee]

Bond Villain, where I lived like .8 seconds and never used my vig but made a big stink about a "vig" kill I didn't make so it'd appear I wasn't the vig. Crappy game.

I agree the rest of town needs to show up, but you guys are playing lazy. You're not even bothering to present your complete worldview so to speak, just throwing vague, inaccurate accusations around. And kil keeps asking me to repeat myself. I don't see anyone thinking things through from start to finish, and that's not going to solve our dilemma and doesn't help me discern the town from the scum amongst ya.

[MrBuddyLee]

It's frustrating answering some of the same questions over and over because some of you guys aren't reading thoroughly. It's also frustrating to be town and see scum and town pile on me and not poke much at all at the people who I think are scum. One of you pressing disproportionately is probably scum. But more than one of you is doing so and some have to be town, so it's frustrating waiting for town to stand out via more protown play. The only good news is, and remember this in case I die and become confirmed:

you'll be able to figure out who scum is based on the proportionality of how they're questioning me, most likely.

Answers to specifics:

1. I think you've missed me pointing this out a few times Adele. We had the game in hand as of the start of today. Four "confirmed innocents" by ShadowLurker leaving turbo ozy and kil. Of those three, Ozy was the only one we couldn't lynch apparently, and so if I vigged him and we lynched the other two, there'd be only one unlikely scenario between us and a win. (Unless SL is naive/scum which is something we'd have to determine as the only alternate explanation.) If I didn't vig him, how else did you plan to off him if you got down to three players and found him scummiest? It was the "smart play" that I could afford to make because we're in the driver's seat.

2. I've played a bunch of games with Patrick, so I think I have a good read on him. He gets ornery as town and is fairly aggressive about poking at the people who show bad judgment. Day two as I read over his posts, I noticed that his day one play looked more political than I'm used to from him, and I also noted that he failed to attack prospective scum on the Ozy lynch. My theory D2 being that Ozy was town (info the doc and I were privy to), I was looking for scum subtly protecting their partners who were on the Ozywagon.

3. To your third point, I haven't tried to throw people off of anything except the identity of the doc. I was bluffing around about there being an SK in case later it came down to doc vig scum in some combination or another and scum might choose to target me instead of the doc. My searching for scum has been entirely genuine, which a careful read of the thread should confirm. If the real doc protected me last night because scum thought I was the doc, that's even cooler, but I don't know for sure if that's the case. At the worst though, our play has resulted in no scum nightkills, which is why we're in this position of power.

I really hope I'm not naive, but that leaves Patrick/Turbo unless we think by some logic that MBL and kilmenator are scum.

This is something I missed earlier. It shows pretty crappy town awareness on D3 after Patrick was long dead. You'd think a cop who had just chosen investigative targets would have gone over the living players to decide who's scummiest and needs to be investigated. And therefore would remember clearly who's alive and who's not and not make the mistake of listing a

dead confirmed innocent guy

as possible scum.

I'll probably die tonight unless the doc pulls tricky voodoo and gets lucky, which I don't recommend. If I'm alive tomorrow, I think the safe play is for me to vig ShadowLurker after he gives us another result. If he's actually a cop that'll confirm his four results unless he's naive (less likely).

Scum will probably hit me or one of geraint/Adele/Norinel tonight because they're nearly confirmed town at this point unless SL is naive. That should leave Turbo, me/two of the confirmeds and SL if we lynch kil today and the game's not over.

With six remaining and only one scum tomorrow... if SL investigates me and then gets vigged as cop, we'll have two of me, Adele, Norinel as confirmed town and Turbo's the final scum. If SL is vigged as scum, we win. If I'm not around to vig, you should probably lynch him to confirm him or win. If SL is naive, we need to regroup at that point.

And one last thought... it's incredibly frustrating to vig scum and get attacked for it. Whether today or tomorrow, please reread the attacks on me with healthy suspicion.

[MrBuddyLee]

My last vote was on kil but I unvoted because I thought our discussions were way premature. I didn't figure we needed vote pressure on her because we had her claim. Instead, we needed her suspicions. (And everyone's.)

1. Turbo- probably day killer (probably an SK to keep the game a little more balanced.

How did you know if the game would be more or less balanced with a serial killer? Got an inside read on the scum setup? Also, it's interesting to note that even though there's no SK, you listed your suspect for SK as your top suspect and your suspect for scum as your #2. Typically, scum hunt SK with top priority and town hunt scum with top priority, not knowing if there's an SK or not. This is one of the things I was looking for when dinking around with SK hypotheses--who would bite and who would keep hunting for scum as vigorously as a hypothetical SK.

If SL gets lynched or vigged and is naive cop and not scum, do we find that out, or is it more common for the reveal to just say "cop"?

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, I'd say Adele's pushing at me disproportionately considering I just whacked scum, but she really can't be scum unless SL is naive cop. If something unexpected happens like SL turns up naive or whatever, Adele would definitely be the first person to look at in my opinion. geraint and Norinel's inquiries and behavior seem more proportional to the state of the game as we know it. And ShadowLurker's LACK of inquisitiveness is also disproportionate.

So yeah, the proportionality of these attacks on the vig plus gamestate should yield 90% of the answers we need. Kil is definitely just as unhappy about me whacking scum, but is also in the gamestate list of most likely scum suspects, as are you. She'd get my vote if I had to lay one down right now.

[MrBuddyLee]

Not at all, pipe up all you want, I'm just saying that town right now is keeping an open mind and the scum is trying to construct a pattern of lynches that will get him/her out of this shorthanded pickle. If I was scum right now (and not SL) I'd say the cop shouldn't die too soon because that would create far too many confirmeds. So I'd be pushing the lynch of someone more dangerous to me--most likely the vig. And saving ShadowLurker for a final day showdown. If ShadowLurker's the final scum, he wants to pick off a confirmed each night and pick away at the remaining "unconfirmed" during the days.

Mostly, I'm just kind of surprised at the free passes being handed out. A ton of you are town but not really constructing a picture of your complete game views so people can understand your perspective. I've pretty much laid mine on the table, which is why you can get a decent read on me and figure out the proper way to "deal" with me today and tomorrow.

Far from wanting you to shut up--I want to hear your full opinions on me as well as on everyone else.

[MrBuddyLee]

And wow, a reread of your posts in isolation really gets to me, Adele. A few things just feel wrong there, and if it weren't for SL "confirming" you and the whole game status thing, I'd have a huge jones for your lynch. Call it vibes.

[MrBuddyLee]

A lynch on MBL will give a lot of information on the killing group dynamic, which we still don't know about for sure, and probably a decent amount of daygame stuff from today.

If there is an SK (Whether it's MBL, someone else doing the daykills, or something completely different)

, giving two killing groups another day when we don't even know what's out there starts to hurt right about now.

What's this all about, particularly the bolded part? I'm the daykiller, and I find it fairly bizarre that you'd question that fact at this point. I understand that you could be scum looking for an SK, but your priorities seem all out of place in this post. You've found your daykiller and you should be doing two things now:

1) Trying to determine whether they're an SK or not.
2) Trying to find scum, since regardless of whether I'm an SK or a vig, there's almost certainly still a scum out there.

Your "someone else doing the daykills" makes it look like you're trying to broaden our list of potential suspects and scenarios unnecessarily. FUD.

I also find it fascinating that you don't even touch on Adele's plan--to let me vig tomorrow on behalf of town if I'm alive, and then decide what to do with me. It's as if the vig or SK is the greatest threat in the game to you, which would be a telltale sign that you're scum.

Besides, I'm probably the top scum NK target at this point, regardless of whether I'm a vig or SK, so I really don't expect to survive the night. Why waste the lynch on me?

So many people look scummy, I need to think about whether the facts support two scum groups of two or something odd like that.

[MrBuddyLee]

Repeating something doesn't make it so. I'm the vig, remember?

ShadowLurker, if you're town could really use your input. Right now you look scummy for avoiding the substance of this game. I have pretty much zero ability to read you other than your claim, which in my view could have easily been a desperation move by a lone scum who just lost a godfather partner.

kil, your certainty that I am scum just doesn't hold water when you look at all your various hypotheses put together.

[MrBuddyLee]

Wait wait wait, that's only three votes if my count's correct. And I ain't hammering at this point, because all three of those kil votes look super-sketchy.

Adele: "you wanna be lynched? you got it."
SL: "you guys are asking me to participate and help you discern my alignment? ok, lemme quickvote with no useful comment."
turbo: "we're not in a hurry! *turbovotes*"

Kil, I don't think you're dead quite yet. If you're town, it's the last chance to change minds.

[MrBuddyLee]

Well, anyone ready for a daykill? I suppose we should do an investigation first and then see what we learn. If there's any kind of quicklynch and I die or something, my advice is to look at Norinel tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

And yeah, I'm not daykilling scum. If I was, I'd just whack SL right now before he gets a chance to report his results.

[MrBuddyLee]

LOL. Depending on who logs in before M-M does, we could be in for some seriously funny shit right about now.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yeah, I figured that was coming. Good news for town though:

I'm not the daykiller.

I'm a nighttime-only vigilante. As I was about to get drilled yesterday, I claimed the daykills in an effort to draw out the actual daykiller, who is an SK. My reasoning was that if I claimed daykiller, I'd be able to tell via the reactions of each of you which one is the SK.

If you guys lynch me today, you will realize I am not the SK. You may or may not get enough evidence to realize that I'm not responsible for the daykills, but regardless, here's what I learned via my gambit yesterday.

Norinel had by far the most curious reaction to my lie. Mind you, no townie should have ANY reason to doubt me when I claim to be the daykiller.

To me, MBL's claim hurt his case more than helped it. The paranoid part of me wants to see all of his daykill speculation as a pretty nice setup to make sure nobody was going to counterclaim, if he weren't really the one killing.

A lynch on MBL will give a lot of information on the killing group dynamic, which we still don't know about for sure, and probably a decent amount of daygame stuff from today. If there is an SK (Whether it's MBL, someone else doing the daykills, or something completely different), giving two killing groups another day when we don't even know what's out there starts to hurt right about now.

It's abundantly clear that Norinel didn't believe my daykiller claim because he has inside info because he IS the daykiller SK.

So the only conclusion I can draw at this point is that SL is scum and Norinel is the SK.

And yeah, I can't daykill, so I'll have to just go down in flames if you guys decide that's the smart play right now. But the game won't be over, you'll probably be down to 4 tomorrow, with two scum. It'll be blatantly obvious at that point who the last two scum are, and I'd need to think it through to see what kind of dealmaking could take place at that point.

I fully expected Norinel to daykill me before I got a chance to make this post. He probably won't be happy that he missed the opportunity. I hope you can understand why I made this play--as a "confirmed innocent" it appeared Norinel was going to skate to victory, and now at least he's on your radar.

Oh, and if there's any doubt in your mind about whether or not I'm lying about this, read my explanations for why I "daykilled" Ozy and Patrick. They're absolutely terrible and a complete stretch, which is 100% out of character for me. Because I didn't commit those atrocities and I had to grasp at 1000 straws to come up with any freaking reason that remotely made sense so I could avoid lynch and sucker the SK out of hiding.

And if he's a daykilling SK, I should be dead any minute now. Or at least that's what I initially expected was on the way, but actually that would give his identity away so he won't. If he doesn't kill me, he's trying to lay low and pretend the daykiller's dead once you lynch me. Just remember my warning--he's your daykiller so don't forget about him.

[MrBuddyLee]

Or he could off me and claim vig. But he said plainly yesterday he wasn't a vig so meh, you'd be back in a similar situation to which you were with me.

[MrBuddyLee]

I really don't expect you to trust me over the claimed cop about the alignment thing, all I've really been trying to accomplish the last day and a half is to find us the daykilling SK. Which I have, and I can answer questions from here on out but I think you should hear from a few other people first.

[MrBuddyLee]

btw adele is my #2 sk pic but you wont get that many tries.

[MrBuddyLee]

Well, none of my nightvig attempts have gone through, so someone's doing their job. I tried to vig Norinel last night and it didn't work, so either he's unnightkillable or for some reason someone protected him.

[MrBuddyLee]

I recruited Ozy night one and got spotted by kilmenator. I tried to kill SL night two for being the fink cop and probably got blocked by geraint. I tried to kill Norinel N3 for being the SK and he's prolly un-nightkillable.

And that's the truth, Ruth.

Just do me a favor and lynch Norinel before me. Seriously, I'm 98.6% positive he's the SK. I get a one-time kill that triggers the day before, and I just PMed the mod to let him know who I'm sending a bomb to. If you kill me today, it goes off as my suicidal farewell. If you don't kill me, I can defuse it up until a lynch is final. I frankly don't see any way out, but at least I can make your lives more difficult if you choose not to listen to me. So lynch Norinel and deal with me tomorrow. Otherwise there will be 3 of you left tomorrow after the SK kills and you'll have to decide who to trust, rather than having me, an admitted scum remaining.

Kilmenator tracked me at night. Your kill-blocking activities (doc etc) happen at night. I am scum who kills/recruits at night, and your SK kills during the day. Ask yourself why the daykill hasn't happened yet today... it's cause Norinel hasn't shown up to visit the thread yet.

[MrBuddyLee]

LOL, this game is ridiculous.

[MrBuddyLee]

If you haven't figured out my role at this point, it should be exceedingly obvious after my last post and the recent set of events. If I reference it in any way I get modkilled. Suffice it to say I'm not a threat in the least and it's been a blast lying my ass off.

[MrBuddyLee]

Let's change it to this:

Norinel, if you kill before we lynch MBL, we WILL lynch you today instead of MBL.

We should hurry and lynch MBL before Norinel shows up. Turbo, any chance of double voting?


I'll investigate geraintm tommorow just to make sure.

This was the right answer. Lynch Norinel and the game should be instantly over. If for some freak reason he's not the SK, which I can't even fathom at this point, deal with it then.

If you lynch me, my bomb goes off tonight and kills someone who's not Norinel, leaving Norinel+townieX+townieY. Norinel daykills townieY and wins the game.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL, is there anything you have written during the game that had a shred of truth to it?

Not really, no. But I'm not scum and I'm not the SK, that much should be apparent at this point. And I'm still alive, which I'm rather happy about and which shouldn't bother you very much considering you have a daykiller to catch.

Shadowlurker seems to get what's going on. Adele, I suggest you unvote and geraint I suggest you hold your vote. I found the SK, now you just need to read my posts and his and see if you agree.

vote: Norinel the daykilling SK who is about to claim vig or didn't kill me (the obvious daykill for any vig or SK) cause he wanted to keep me around for the frame-up

[MrBuddyLee]

why did you turn up guilty when investigated?

Why do godfathers turn up innocent when investigated?

[MrBuddyLee]

Anyways, MBL i hope you are happy with the way the game has gone.

So far so good, but we're not quite home yet.

the game seems horribly balanced. scum had a godfather, double voter, recruited Ozy? and am i right in thinking there is one left, or are we chasing the person who is doing the day kills?

We are chasing the person who just killed scum, odds are they are not scum or they wouldn't have done that because turbo's double vote on me plus another scum vote would have probably won them the game. So yeah, we're looking for the freaking psychopathic daykilling SK

[MrBuddyLee]

Read Norinel's posts in response to my bullshit claim. SL already says he sees it. You should be able to as well.

[MrBuddyLee]

Seriously, you just need to figure out which of Norinel/myself/Adele is the SK and lynch them for the win. I think I've laid out a pretty solid case for the past day and a half, and mind you the person I spotted was a "confirmed innocent" so if he turns out to be the final killer like I think he is then you can thank me for the win.

Or you can lynch me for all the weirdness and make me a sad panda. But you'll probably lose if you do that. Just read my post history from the perspective that I was trying to draw out the SK and it should make a lot more sense.

[MrBuddyLee]

So Adele, is your theory that I daykilled my scumbuddy today? If you're going to vote me I'd like to know why, other than the lynch-all-liars lameness.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd also like to know your explanation for why Norinel didn't believe I was the daykiller.

This is one of the reasons I list you as a #2 suspect for SK, you do weird impulsive things sometimes that don't entirely make logical sense. You shoved kilmenator into the woodchipper for asking to be lynched, even though she had previously proven to be slightly illogical. And now you're willfully ignoring the evidence against Norinel, choosing not to even discuss it. Makes it look like you think I'm the easy lynch and Norinel's the next-easiest lynch you'll push for tomorrow. Yes yes, let's rush this day through when we don't even understand what's going on or haven't even heard from Norinel. Perfectly logical.

I'm not a killer. I'm a liar. Those are two very different things, and unless you think I'm the most likely daykiller, you shouldn't axe me.

I'd like to see support for claims from Adele and Norinel.

[MrBuddyLee]

I bet you're enjoying the activity. Curse you and this role you gave me.

[MrBuddyLee]

Cmon geraint and SL, doc and cop, demand claims from the unidentified twosome. Norinel's the SK and will claim god knows what, Adele may be a roleblocker or something considering scum got their kills blocked or docced every night. I dunno, but you're in the driver's seat if you lynch Norinel and you're at lynch-or-lose or worse if you off me.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ah:

I'll be gone next week starting from this Friday to next Saturday (Give or take).

So if the mod allowed Norinel to hand in his daykill order before he left, Norinel could still be the SK.

I AM NOT THE SK AND ONE OF YOU ARE. FIGURE IT OUT.

I'm the only one who's been doing the legwork here. Cmon guys, don't let this be one of those games where you feel stupid at lynch-or-lose because you didn't ask the right questions.

Put another way, the serial killer nailed Turbo and Ozy, and the mod killed your other scum, the godfather. geraint, you blocked a kill or two and spotted Turboscum as did I, so I'm confident you're town. Adele, you're long overdue for a pro-town contribution more significant than "lynch all liars". Norinel's biggest contributions to finding scum have been:

1) Not voting a single time in this game

2) Responding to my phony dayvig claims with answers that incriminated himself.

[MrBuddyLee]

It's not bullying, it's wanting to win--sorry if it comes across otherwise. If it's not persuasive enough you're free to disregard.

[MrBuddyLee]

LOL!

Listen, I'll be happy to suffer a loss if you guys at least try. I'm down to three games on this site because town NEVER EVER tries as hard as they should and as a result the results of games end up being unsatisfyingly pseudorandom. I mean, your top suspect for scum just pointed out that the serial killer hasn't even voted in this entire game. That's something you should have noticed long ago.

If you're busy, that's fine, at least state such, unvote, and take the time later to read the thread properly so you don't miss these nuances. As for me shutting up, I can't do that. I'm making the mod happy at the moment...

[MrBuddyLee]

You continue to fail to comment on the crux of my argument... why would Norinel doubt that I was the daykiller when I claimed the daykills? What sane person would claim kills they didn't commit? And what person would know they were lying? The actual daykiller. How many times do I have to drive this point home? More times than I have, apparently.

unvote, vote: Adele.

Let's see how this vote settles with geraint and SL--do they see your actions as pro-town or perhaps are you part of a second scumteam?

You're pretending to play but are not playing, Adele. For example, there's

another

crucial piece of evidence you're completely ignoring that significantly eliminates me as a possible daykiller. I won't blab about it because I want to see who's really trying to put two and two together. The SK is playing calculus trying to eliminate the pattern of people that makes sense to them. The town is analyzing ALL the evidence and commenting on it, unless they're too busy to and then they admit that. You're doing neither.

Like I said, I'm cutting games on this site because of lazy town, so yes, I have an axe to grind.

Finally, Norinel's failure to vote is more a sign of his attempt to lie low and his anti-town tendencies than evidence than that he's not allowed to vote. I imagine he'll waltz in here and pop a vote on you or me if he's the SK and analyzes the game to decide what's good for him. Right now, the calculus says he dies tomorrow with three players remaining, but he's probably going to think seriously about ways to change that.

[MrBuddyLee]

Things we know for pretty much certain:

1) There's an SK that kills during the day.
2) MBL is confirmed to have acted

at night

.
3) SKs more often than not investigate innocent.
4) MBL investigated

guilty

.
5) But MBL is not scum because among other things that would imply

four scum

including a godfather

plus an SK

in this game.
6) MBL lied several times in an attempt to draw out the SK and protect the doctor.
7) Norinel is the daykiller because he inexplicably

doubted

my daykill claims. When someone claims daykiller, you wonder whether they're a vig or an SK, you

don't

wonder if they're the daykiller. Unless you are.

[MrBuddyLee]

Nor, I'm not the daykiller. If you're not, who do you think is?

[MrBuddyLee]

Observing behavior.

[MrBuddyLee]

There are three things I can't say without being modkilled.

Carry on finding that SK. If at the end of the process you trust me less than Adele who refuses to claim and Norinel who was skeptical of my "daykills" AND of ShadowLurker who is our only confirmed day actor...

...then lynch me. But you'll be wrong.

[MrBuddyLee]

I was hunting for the daykiller for quite some time cause I didn't think the daykills looked pro-town. For a while I thought it was Adele based on her behavior, which didn't appear very townish.

Also, I'd say Adele's pushing at me disproportionately considering I just whacked scum, but she really can't be scum unless SL is naive cop. If something unexpected happens like SL turns up naive or whatever, Adele would definitely be the first person to look at in my opinion.

That was a hint to look at Adele as SK if I died.

And wow, a reread of your posts in isolation really gets to me, Adele. A few things just feel wrong there, and if it weren't for SL "confirming" you and the whole game status thing, I'd have a huge jones for your lynch. Call it vibes.

And again.

Only once Norinel suspected me of lying about the daykills did I change my mind on the identity of the SK.

[MrBuddyLee]

Does anyone else get the feeling Adele has something to hide?

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm not a jester and I'm not scum. SL and geraint, don't finish me off. Norinel's and Adele's behavior should give everything away to you... if they really believed I was the SK and the final threat to town, they'd be happy to claim in order to clarify the game's events. But they realize they have to lynch me AND survive tomorrow in order to win, so they're playing it close to the chest.

I'm not sure which one is the SK, and as I mentioned, it could be SL but that role would be kind of bastardly. geraint, good luck getting Adele and Norinel to give you what you're asking for... if they off me, you'll need SL's help to get it.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm also thinking about the idea of everybody claiming and giving their roles and actions so that we can analyze them and see what happened each night.

[MrBuddyLee]

OK, finally.

I am the

psychiatrist

, and I am

neutrally aligned

. This is why I know for a fact there's an SK in the game and have been focused on drawing them out. My win condition is that I convert the serial killer to town, and I get to try once a night. My role PM says specifically that I will investigate as scum, and the SK will investigate as town and I am the only chance to catch him.

I tried to cure Ozy, Turbo and Norinel, all unsuccessfully. Norinel is NOT the SK--I truly believed he was yesterday after his behavior but he's clean.

What Adele said makes it pretty much impossible that SL is the SK. Claiming a deputy means either she's lying or BOTH of them are, and there's pretty much no way there are still two scum alive.

I believe geraint nearly entirely based on the lack of nightkills and his reactions to various game events.

That means

we should lynch Adele.

That is why my vote has been there and will remain there.

[MrBuddyLee]

As a neutral, I also win with any side if I survive to the end of the game. If I die without converting the SK, I do not win.

I love how Adele tries to get me lynched solely on my old lies and not on game facts. I'm the daykilling SK but I had a night action? Give me a break. She's trying to draw your attention away from an analysis of the game based on events, which would be the logical approach immediately after a massclaim.

For example:

1) Why a doc if scum daykills? Clearly scum was killing at night and got docblocked. Ergo, there is an SK killing during daytime.

etc etc etc, carry on.

[MrBuddyLee]

SL, the daykilling scum is pretty much off the table because we have a doc. Not completely, but that role just wouldn't make sense in a game with only daykillers. Then again, it could be an SK safeclaim, but I don't think that's the case.

[MrBuddyLee]

The SK is lying about not being SK. If we don't get them converted, they can still win by dodging two lynches. So the right play, I believe, is to lynch the most likely SK target until/unless they fess up.

You say I should be pushing for no-lynch? LOL. So scummy. No risk to you of death today, and you gank me first thing tomorrow.

Of course, that increases the chances you get lynched tomorrow when I turn up what I say I am, so your best play is to confess now.

[MrBuddyLee]

Because there's no guarantee from their perspective that I'm capable of converting them, so they have to weigh the risks. Plus, it might not seem as glorious a win if they get converted... somewhat similar to a townie winning by getting recruited by cult.

The SK probably prefers to win as SK by killing everything in sight--that's what they do. They may change their mind on the cusp of a lynch... we shall see.

[MrBuddyLee]

Before I claimed I considered the SK's logical response.

1) If they assume I'm telling the truth, the logical response is to claim and win with town.

2) If they assume I'm bluffing, the logical response is to NOT claim (cause then they'd lose) and push for no-lynch, then get me lynched tomorrow for not converting them. Then they automatically win the game the next day.

If Adele is the SK, which I believe to be true, she's playing it safe and assuming I'm bluffing and is following option 2 to the T. Option (1) is too risky for her to bank on.

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, she knows lynching me today is too risky because it'll expose her in time to be caught tomorrow when I turn up psych. She can only win by maintaining reasonable doubt that I'm the SK until sunset tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

Odd post by Norinel:

vote: MBL.

It's growing more and more obvious that he's something not pro-town trying to stall for time, and even if he's a jester or whatever, there should only be one scum left we can deal with tomorrow.

By killing me, you think we'll be at one scum left tomorrow? Meaning you think there are two scum left right now or meaning there's one scum left and I'm not it?

Why are you voting for someone you don't think is scum?

[MrBuddyLee]

Before you vote, you should probably get everyone on the record about who they think the SK is and why. If you decide to lynch me for some reason, you'll need that info tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

geraint, I felt that if I claimed psychiatrist too soon the SK would target me immediately. So I've been trying to claim things that would draw the SK out into the open. I think my actions will prove to be helpful to town in the long run but that'll be for you to decide after the game. You have two players who are cop-cleared and one is the SK, and I've tried to poke and prod at them to get the information necessary to make the decision. As of yesterday, I knew that if we lynched Adele and Norinel we'd almost certainly win the game by hitting SK, I just didn't know which one. Now, I'm pretty sure it's Adele.

Sadly, if SL offs me today I won't meet my win condition. I hope you guys lynch Adele today. On the extraordinarily slim chance that fails to win the game,

and

then I don't convert the SK tonight, you can off me tomorrow if you really feel you need to. The best piece of evidence in favor of me not being the SK is that kilmenator proved I acted at night, implying that I am not a daykiller. Ignore that at your peril.

And ask yourself which set of roles looks most reasonable:

#1
protown watchman
protown copycat
protown cowardly reporter
protown tracker
protown cop
protown deputy
protown kamikaze
protown doctor

protown unlynchable townie turned mafia goon
mafia godfather (daykilled)
mafia double voter (daykilled)

daykilling serial killer claiming psychiatrist

#2
protown watchman
protown copycat
protown cowardly reporter
protown tracker
protown cop
protown deputy
protown doctor

neutral psychiatrist

protown unlynchable townie turned mafia goon
mafia godfather (daykilled)
mafia double voter (daykilled)

daykilling serial killer claiming kamikaze

#3
protown watchman
protown copycat
protown cowardly reporter
protown tracker
protown cop
protown kamikaze
protown doctor

neutral psychiatrist

protown unlynchable townie turned mafia goon
mafia godfather (daykilled)
mafia double voter (daykilled)

daykilling serial killer claiming deputy

Personally, I think deputy looks like the made-up role. In a game with a billion pro-town power roles, why have a backup for the cop?

And SL, you keep talking about a 4th mafia member instead of an SK, but that would require that the remaining killer slaughtered their own teammates on D2 D3. That's just not feasible. There's an SK alive.

[MrBuddyLee]

I had fun. I was praying for one more day with which to make a few more absurd roleclaims, alas I was squished.

Thanks M-M and everyone for a good time

[MrBuddyLee]

ps. I found you the SK! Well, not really cause I thought it was Norinel for a bit, but my first and last thoughts were Adele

[MrBuddyLee]

I had a guilty investigation on me... all I could do was distract, waffle, point to other things for people to focus on. It sorta kinda almost worked but not quite.

And hey, I had you believing I was a psychiatrist, so all I needed was one more person to get suckered in...