Open 6 - Nightless (Ended) - before 388

[Thesp]

So Pooky, whom will I vote?

[Thesp]

Sorry, I glossed over and thought the questions were for those who disagreed.

1) Yes.
2) Follow Pooky and use my awesome powers for good.
3) As long as it takes people to come to their senses and do stuff, every day. Lots of commitment from me.

[Thesp]

Pooky is town, it's clearly best to let him take a stab at the mafia.

[Thesp]

Somehting distinctly odd about the way Thesp is reacting to the Pooky proposal. Not like him (or any experienced and skillfull player, such as he is) at all to abdicate, or contemplate abdicating, his vote in that way - especially since Thesp has no way of knowing if Pooky is pro-town. Unless Thesp is scum.

Do you think Pooky is town?

If Thesp has so far been kidding I would like to know his real opinion, however the second post made in support of Pooky didn't seem like a joke to me.

Do you think Pooky is town?

I have to admit this does make me wonder. Thesp, could you clarify?

Do you think Pooky is town?

To those who haven't played with them before, Thesp and Pookie play a little similar to Frenzy and Coron.

Who's Frenzy? I'm sad that you think I play like Coron (though in retrospect, I can see some passing similarity ).

[Thesp]

I don't know. Do you?

Yes.

Do you always answer a question with a question?

No?

Like I said before, I have really no way of knowing.

This is wrong.

Yes he could be town, or he could be scum.

I'm not sure what you're asserting, if anything, here. Most of this post is fluff and not really helpful/contributive. Mr Stoofer has been far more helpful/useful.

[Thesp]

Mostly I was saying what a gamble it would be. True he could be town, but I find this more scummy. I was personally surprised anyone really gave to much support to it. Which mostly leads me to believe that the initial supporters (perhaps the first few) could be scum buddys with him.

That's quite a wide swath you're cutting with very little justification.

[Thesp]

Only way you can know Pooky's alignment is if you're scum.
...
He says he knows Pooky's alignment. So he is scum. 3 to go.

Who in their right mind would actually think I'm coming out claiming to have proof of Pooky's townness? This looks like a silly attamept to throw suspicion on me.

I don't know. Do you?

Yes, I think Pooky is town.

FWIW, I don't think Pooky's proposal tells us one way or another whether he is scum. It's just the sort of thing he would do whether town or scum.

Really? It's been my experience that he's more likely to make proposals like this when he's town.

I love, love, love the votes on jl2704.

Nightfall is next. Seriously, if jl2704 is scum, Nightfall almost certainly is, too.

FOS: Relyte

, too.

Thesp makes a statement (he knows Pooky's alignment) that can only possibly be true if he's scum and declines to explain it.

The premise of your statement is incorrect. I stated Pooky is town. I may be wrong in that assertion. I don't think I am. Pooky can be town independent of the state of my knowledge of his alignment.

Right now I'm pegging one of Ripley or Relyte to be scum, but not both. My guess is Relyte.

FOS: Cephrir

.

Well obviously your questions made Thesp and I scummy.

I'm not sure where you get your information from.

Vote: jl2704.

[Thesp]

Well, my interpretation of the following sequence must be wrong then because you appear to be stating you

know

Pooky is town:

Somehting distinctly odd about the way Thesp is reacting to the Pooky proposal. Not like him (or any experienced and skillfull player, such as he is) at all to abdicate, or contemplate abdicating, his vote in that way - especially since Thesp has no way of knowing if Pooky is pro-town. Unless Thesp is scum.

Do you think Pooky is town?

I don't know. Do you?

I don't know. Do you?

Yes.

Seems clear enough to me.

I'm confused. I asked him if he thinks Pooky is town. He turned around and asked the same question to me. Since when did

think

and

know

become equivocated?

[Thesp]

I cannot foresse a scenario where jl2704 (or any given replacement) is so convincing to townieness that they would be allowed to the end of the game. I think the odds are good that jl2704 is scum. Let's please kill him. Thanks.

[Thesp]

Why wait to hammer, wimps? It's not going to shut down discussion.

[Thesp]

We will get the most info out of a dead jl2704. I'm disappointed in Cephrir for not voting when he had the chance.

[Thesp]

So, Pooky, who's next? Can it be Nightfall?

[Thesp]

Excellent.

Vote: Nightfall.

[Thesp]

I'm sure both of them are completely aware that at no time has there been even the slightest attempt to present a case against Nightfall and I think this is part of the fun for them. The whole Thesp/Pooky vibe is very strange, to me at any rate. Both of them give me the sense that they're laughing at the rest of us more or less the whole time.

This is at least partly right, at least on my end. There is a case against Nightfall, I just haven't bothered presenting what I've seen. And I am enjoying this game tremendously.

Sorry for those of you who find my playstyle annoying. It does seem to be effective.

[Thesp]

I would quite like Thesp to explain why he thought Nightfall had to be scum if jl was scum when he gets the time.

Because Nightfall was acting in a way that would better jl2704's position while trying to appear as though he thought jl2704 was scum.

I agree with all of this. And also, for the benefit of those of us who find their posting quite similar, why Nightfall rather than Cephrir?

Why not?

Instead of the subtext being "I'm not worried because I know jl is scum" it becomes "I'm Thesp and I'm wayyyyy too cool to admit to doubting the outcome, or to bother reading the trifling posts by the not-Pookys amongst you. And incidentally my vote was directed by Pooky so I'm not responsible anyway."

Ripley wins!

Look, I'll let you in on the secret. I do have doubts. And I also have strong suspicions which are based on things I see. Sometimes what I see is dead on, sometimes its way off. And presenting things in the abbreviated, assured manner draws reactions from people. It sure seemed to draw a reaction from an opportunistic jl2704, which Mr Stoofer keenly picked up on. There's also the danger that if I let on too much of what I see scum doing, they will react and change accordingly. I like my secrets sometimes.

One more thing I'll share: I enjoy playing aggressively a lot more. I tend to have a mildly better success rate in doing so, and it keeps things moving.

Thesp, you never did say why you FoSed me and I haven't forgotten. Still waiting for an answer.

I'm amused that you're still so hung up about that!

[Thesp]

I almost forgot to add - now everyone please kill Nightfall. He needs it.

[Thesp]

@Thesp: I wonder why I'm 'so hung up about it'? Maybe because you still haven't answered me.

Haven't I mentioned suspicion of other people I haven't made much mention of, and those people haven't been obsessed about it?

[Thesp]

Can we kill Nightfall now an find out if he was scum or not yet? Thanks.

[Thesp]

RAWR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thesp]

Without benefit of re-read (and sort-by-users-posts), I think I'm probably more inclined towards Relyte as well. Where to next, Pooky?

[Thesp]

Pooky also said Relyte next. I am inclined to think IH and Thesp are townies on gut.

And awesome scum-finding superpowers. Don't forget those.

[Thesp]

I've never played a game with Pooky before--is he normally like this?

Where he's like what? Accurate?

[Thesp]

Thesp, are you in agreeance that Relyte should be next? Or should we either go for a different target, or discuss some former things some more. I'm personally happy with either Cephrir or Relyte from what I've seen.

I'm waiting for Pooky. I'm wishy-washy on Cephrir, I've picked up something notable that I can't determine if it indicates a link between scum or indicates not-partners. I am good with Relyte, though.

[Thesp]

Vote: Relyte.

[Thesp]

At least since I believe I'm at -1. Can someone be so kind and tell me what I did to deserve being lynched?

Can you be so kind as to impart us your wisdom as to whom you think is scum before you get lynched? Thanks.

[Thesp]

I'm still waiting on Pooky/Thesp's reasons, which are long overdue.

I will try to give this a suitable response in a day or so.

[Thesp]

Relyte seemed more concerned with how he was perceived than seems normal. He's also used a buzzword/phrase I strongly, strongly associate with scum. I could conceive of Relyte being town, but think the possiblity he's scum is strong enough to warrant lynchitude. I also really don't get the Pooky hate at this point.

HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER

[Thesp]

Let's have some fun, shall we?

Pooky, can we go for Ripley? I'm liking the current trend. A small sampling:

Thesp makes a statement (he knows Pooky's alignment) that can only possibly be true if he's scum and declines to explain it.

This is a crap comment made for crap reasons. Aimless suspicion without the guts to get behind it. Also, I loved his defense of jl2704:

It's almost

too

blatantly scummy to make perfect sense, but on the whole I think the simplest explanation (bad newbie scum) is likeliest to be the true one. I'd like to hear his defense though, if he has any.

Also, this quote is interesting re: jl2704:

I'm getting similar ideas to IH. If jl is scum, his case is now looking so hopeless that his scum buddies are likely to be jumping on the wagon nowwhile there's still time, to make themselves look good on the voting records. They probably don't even want him to come back and defend himself, quite likely he'd only make things worse, manage to implicate them maybe. It's the people holding off their vote, counselling caution and giving him time to answer who sound the most innocent to me.

If Thesp were scum with jl, then his "Nightfall is next - if jl is scum Nightfall almost certainly is too" is a smart move. Because when jl does turn out scum, the seeds of Nightfall's guilt have already been planted in everyone's minds and Thesp has probably established the leading lynch candidate for the next day. If you're going to lose a scum buddy Day 1, you might as well try to extract some value from it.

All this of course depends on jl being scum. If he's innocent I'm sure there will be scum voting him, though probably earlier on the voting list than if he's scum, where I think the scum votes will be the later ones.

It's great how he tries to intimidate people off of the jl2704 wagon, and throw suspicion onto the people who will ultimately lynch him, if "jl2704 does turn out scum". Also interesting, re: the impending lynch of Nightfall:

I agree with all of this. And also, for the benefit of those of us who find their posting quite similar, why Nightfall rather than Cephrir?

I <3 Ripley's death. Can we do it? If we get 1 more scum we can win.

[Thesp]

I <3 Ripley's death. Can we do it? If we get 1 more scum we can win.

You are aware that Relyte was town, correct?

Of course! But Pooky and I only need one more scum to kill before we can just lynch everyone else. One of y'all is bound to be scum.

[Thesp]

Vote: Ripley.

[Thesp]

Interestingly, if Ripley is scum, it all but clears Cephrir. This game could be over quickly.

[Thesp]

Interestingly, if Ripley is scum, it all but clears Cephrir. This game could be over quickly.

Eh?

I agree with all of this. And also, for the benefit of those of us who find their posting quite similar, why Nightfall rather than Cephrir?

This would be a very odd thing for scum Ripley to say about scum Nightfall

and

scum Cephrir.

They just try to avoid too much explanation because they base themselves on gut.

There are some thought processes going on inside there, now. But you're right in that sometimes my scumdar is waaaay off. I like to think it's at least better than 50/50, though. =P

[Thesp]

vote Dead Riki

game ovah scumbag

I missed this earlier, sorry Pooky!

Vote: Dead Rikimaru

.

[Thesp]

If we lynch him before Jan 1, we could be eligible for the Scummies.

[Thesp]

Vote: Patrick

.

No.

[Thesp]

Pooky, what do you think?

[Thesp]

I really, really don't get the vote(s) on Cephrir.

[Thesp]

Because I still feel he's scummy. mmm, I really need to reread myself. Des anyone mind gigantic posts in this thread, because I'll probably do one.

Please do. I would also seriously consider re-reading whom the scum go after and whatnot.

[Thesp]

Mod: Please revoke the deadline.

I for one don't care if this lynch takes all day. Additionally, random.org is a terrible, terrible way to decide a lynch. Thanks!

[Thesp]

i was busy

rering now

Please don't tell me you buy into the "cephrir is scum" stuff.

[Thesp]

I am not comfortable enough with the plan to go with it.

Mod: We don't need a deadline.

At least, I don't think we do. I'm okay with prods. I'd rather lynch VitaminR.

[Thesp]

Now, I think I could with some confidence identify

one

other townie (not including myself) right now.

I am curious as to whom this player is.

[Thesp]

I don't agree with VitaminR's list, and I won't support a Cephrir lynch. Nightfall's posts also cement the strong probability that Cephrir is not with the scum group, and I'm finding dead scum's posts far more helpful than any alive person's, particularly since anyone alive may have taken the potentially preferable stance of acting as a Serial Killer in this game, and would have voted any or all of his scum buddies without abandon, while his partners may not have.

Ripley's comment is just one comment amongst many; and is the sort of thing scum sometimes says to confuse the town.

Also, this statement is flat-out wrong. This is far, far more likely to be a subtle defense than a well-placed misdirection.

FOS: Mr Stoofer.

This looks like an attempt to discredit some very compelling evidence in a potential innocent's favor.

If I'm lynching any 3, it'd be IH/Mr Stoofer/VitaminR. VitaminR's only point for him is that he's willing to self-vote.

[Thesp]

On what basis are you so confident that Pooky is town? I.e. how can you get a read on him?

He tends to try to break games when he's town, and less likely to do so when not. I'd probably still vote him over Cephrir, but I seriously doubt it will need to get to that point.

Vote: IH

. I don't see any reason not to.

[Thesp]

Well, you haven't given any reason to vote him, either.

Oh noes! Whatever shall I do?

For one, I seriously do not love his continued psycopathy towards Cephrir.

[Thesp]

You haven't explained why Cephrir should be suspicion free, and not lynched.

I agree with all of this. And also, for the benefit of those of us who find their posting quite similar, why Nightfall rather than Cephrir?

This would be a very odd thing for scum Ripley to say about scum Nightfall and scum Cephrir.

Please do. I would also seriously consider re-reading whom the scum go after and whatnot.

Nightfall's posts also cement the strong probability that Cephrir is not with the scum group, and I'm finding dead scum's posts far more helpful than any alive person's, particularly since anyone alive may have taken the potentially preferable stance of acting as a Serial Killer in this game, and would have voted any or all of his scum buddies without abandon, while his partners may not have.

I will PM mith and let him know you are having trouble seeing my posts. Can someone please quote this post so IH can see it? Thanks!

[Thesp]

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't clear Cephrir IMO.

While it doesn't make him a mason, are you really trying to assert that it doesn't strongly swing the pendulum in his favor to the point that there's no reason he should be your top suspect at this point?

[Thesp]

Pity, because I had him next in my train of thought.

[Thesp]

Stoofer was spot on with his votes, but that is almost too perfect to be real.

I honestly don't know about Pooky.

Cephrir is the best candidate except for Ripley's need to include him as a suspect. That does count rather strongly, though.

I think it is either Pooky or Stoofer.

Re-reading, only Stoofer's Ripley seem truly out of place for scum. It was pretty unprompted.

I think I'd like to take out Pooky, Stoofer & me and then have Cephrir and Thesp be the last ones alive. Scum should be one of those two.

With that in mind:

Vote: Mr Stoofer

QFT. Massively.

Vote: MrStoofer.

[Thesp]

And thanks very much for modding spectrumvoid. You did a good job and I'd sign up for one of your games again. It's always difficult to know how much to prod and when to replace, but I think you got it about right.

Agreed. Thanks, spectrumvoid!

Stoofer, I think you played a great game. You weren't really lynched for not voting townies, though. Firstly, you were lynched fairly late. It was 7 townies to 1 scum at one point. Just from random lynches, the last scum was bound to come up at some point. Secondly, it was as much a process of deduction as it was hunting for scum. Thirdly, the fact that a player doesn't find the way you voted scum believable in retrospect isn't necessarily a sign that your play was too perfect, nor that voting more townies would have helped.

Agreed. In fact, as I argued in-game, it was as much as what other people said more than what you actually said, Stoof.

I was responsible for killing off both jl2704 and Ripley. At the time I felt I had no choice but to do this. In retrospect I'm not so sure.

There's an argument to be made that if jl2704 got lynched later, it would have made things more difficult for the town, but there's no way to know whether that made the difference or not. I do think the best attempt at a strategy for a game like this for scum is to act as a Serial Killer without a side (until close to LyLo for the town), but I don't know if that's accurate, and it requires a similar commitment from everyone in the scumteam. Even then, most mortals (myself included) still can't help but give away some of your leanings.

I thoroughly enjoyed this game, and I hope I didn't aggravate too many people. I'm glad I didn't have to choose between Pooky and Cephrir at the end!