Mini #355- Starcraft Mafia, Over

[Patrick]

Vote: Romanus

obv scum

[Patrick]

heh looks like you could be onto something here.

[Patrick]

If that's what I'm doing, shouldn't you be voting for either me or Max?

No he is implying you're trying to keep your distance from Kurtz.

[Patrick]

Yeah it's because you were scum last game. I hadn't noticed that we were particularly out of the random/joking stage yet, particularly judging by the last 2 posts. I might reread it all soon and see if there is anything to talk about.

[Patrick]

owned

[Patrick]

WTF Romanus?? You are actually taking this seriously? Has it occurred to you that we're just messing around?

Since you put up some points i'll answer though;

1. How good you were as mafia could be debated
2. Being good as mafia in no way means you have to be good as town. Many players specialise in one and not the other.

[Patrick]

lol Romanus.. you know that thing Rathyr said that is in your sig? It's completely true 8)

This is not a role claim, just a good guy claim. Keep an eye on me, yes. I expect nothing less, but don't dismiss a player that you know can do you some good if he is on your side,

and this time I am.

Your sure that myself and spectrumvoid are town?

[Patrick]

so how do you know you're on our side

[Patrick]

That is a fine point Patrick.

Noted.

You are of course, deliberately pretending to misunderstand the point i'm making.

The usual Romanian tactic again.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[Patrick]

Don't be so easily lead Lumos. As if we want to lynch this early.

[Patrick]

I'm saying we don't want to lynch this early.

[Patrick]

Basically what I'm saying is, I get a few scummy vibes from Romanus but it's early days yet. I find it worrying that Lumos is happy just to do as Rosso says.

[Patrick]

Patrick, I think we all know how to play this game to some extent. Do you think that I would go along with my scum partner just like that from the start? Normally people aren't that obvious, otherwise they're just plain stupid.

WIFOM

[Patrick]

Can we get Kurtz replaced or something?

Lumos is scummiest so far, closely followed by Romanus. He jumps on the wagon when Rosso tells him to, then he gives me some WIFOM for why he shouldn't be scum. I don't like his last post either. If he's town he should not be giving up like that.

I don't think Lumos could be scum with Romanus, though I could see a Rosso/Romanus connection. Rosso barges in like a bull in a china shop (yeah i know, aggressive playstyle) but in the very same post where he attacks Romanus he also puts Lumos in a tough spot;

Lumos, pretty sure that your no voting and such, but still trying to keep on romanus' back is protecting your scum buddy. Bad idea all around, yeah.

So basically Lumos has the choice between not voting Romanus, and being accused of being his scumbuddy or voting Romanus and getting pwned for it as is happening now. This could be Rosso distancing himself from Romanus but at the same time setting up another target to attack. Or it could just be Rosso trying to look town. He is all buddy buddy with Romanus now.

We need the spectators to start posting some content. Otherwise too easy for scum to sit back and watch this.

[Patrick]

Unvote, Vote: Lumos

[Patrick]

People, plz dont use craplogic like that, its in bad taste.

I'm assuming you mean me since I made the connection. Either point out the flaw in the logic or don't call it craplogic.

As for Romanus, I'm getting the same vibes. It might be the way he always plays. If I have time I might look for a game where he's known town and see if there's any difference.

[Patrick]

I see what you mean about not much. First game you were unlucky and got speedlynched by a load of noobs. Second game you were thrown into a difficult situation, not to mention that was the first game you ever played. So not much to judge on. NM we'll see what happens here.

[Patrick]

Ok Lumos

You are a girl.

Happy? Now how about posting something game related.

The same goes for a ton of other ppl who have been sitting on the sidelines.

[Patrick]

Gotta agree with Rosso here. This is a classic. Scum often try this tactic. If you are town, you're not helping.

[Patrick]

eh could be. Maybe we should get lumos replaced. Meanwhile still waiting for the non participants to change into participants.

[Patrick]

Kurtz, Anix, Mike, Max, Amelia are the ppl I was thinking of when I made my last post.

[Patrick]

All I saw from you this game, Mike, was just banter with Anix. It didn't really add much, unless you have some real reason for suspecting Anix.

Romanus you are so predictable man. Is it demanding to ask ppl to post content in a game of mafia.

[Patrick]

why would that stop you wanting to post?

[Patrick]

You have me voting for 2 ppl on the votecount.

[Patrick]

I agree with Kurtz about Anix. Anix is hardly contributing to this game. Maybe page 1 or 2 it was funny. But the game started a while back. I think Romanus stretched to find someone else to be suspicious of. Whether this is scummy stretching or a townie stretching I don't know. OK Kurtz came in rather overaggressively but I think his point was basically sound.

I didn't like this too much though:

Anyway, at your advice, I would like to get to the core matter of the game: lynching Lumos.

Bloodthirsty. If Lumos is just chucking in the towel I would rather replace instead of lynching now just to get rid of her. We have time. And we have ppl who still need to say something. I agree Lumos is scummy, but I can easily see a scenario where a newbie player enters a mini containing some more experienced players, gets bandwagoned early and decides she'll never get out of it and just wants out. As town or as scum.

[Patrick]

Don't mind Romanus, he can be a tad demanding

[Patrick]

Why does MBF strike you as town? I'm interested.

[Patrick]

Not nuff said. How long is it likely to last? Is it worth replacing.

[Patrick]

Buddying up my ass. I'm much smarter than that crap.

No you're not. You tried it on me last game. Well actually you tried all sorts, but eventually you settled for telling me that I looked pro town when I was attacking you. It could have been more reasonable that time because there was a lot of past material to judge whether I was pro town or not. But here as MBF said, he hasn't done much for you to think he's particularly pro town. So this can easily be seen as buddying up.

I know what you're saying about rogue. A lurker hunt is often something scum do when they can't think of anyone to be 'suspicious' of. I also want to hear from Max and Anix. I agree we shouldn't just drop everything and wait for them. But still hoping they'll start posting.

[Patrick]

Unvote

for now. I want to see Romanus's reply.

[Patrick]

That is really strange. MBF makes makes a joke vote to 'fakelynch' Anix. I really have no idea how Romanus would see that as pro town.

Patrick, I am also well aware of the methods I used in another game. The problem is that I am going to use the same tactics no matter what my role is, to some degree. I know you are going to be suspicious of me and keep an eye on me, that is fine, just don't get too trigger happy.

To some degree you might. But buddying up or at least trying to soften someone up by calling them pro town for no good reason doesn't seem like a very town tactic to me.

Unvote, Vote: Romanus

[Patrick]

Also, I am not trying to duck and hide from any of this. I would say that my behavior has caused more real game discussion than anyone else. This is one of the main reasons for acting the way I am.

I don't like this defence. It could be applied to anything anybody ever does that is scummy. 'Hey guys, my actions have generated lots of discussion which is obviously a pro town thing.' It is very easy for someone to say they were just testing for reactions. Here's another problem. When accused of buddying up to mike you actually denied it saying you're much too clever for that crap. Now it seems you admit you were, but insist this is good because it will create lots of discussion. Well I'll agree on one thing, if you're scum then this discussion is good.

Here comes the WIFOM:
Would a scum put on a show like this, doing admittedly strange things, attacking Lumos then defending her, saying that the guy leading the charge against him is most likely town. Like I said, WIFOM, but there it is anyway.

This doesn't seem like unusual behaviour for a scum. Like I said before, telling the guy who is leading the charge that he is pro town is a common scum tactic. Attacking Lumos then defending her is also not that surprising. You're not exactly the only one having second thoughts about lynching Lumos or at least about lynching her straight away.

[Patrick]

Why rush? We're not deadlined.

[Patrick]

I don't know why ppl want to end the day now. We have hardly heard from Max or Anix. I can honestly see no disadvantage in discussing. If we want to lynch Romanus, he'll still be here after a few more pages.

If we all agree that Romanus is scum (I'm getting more convinced with every post he makes), why aren't we lynching him?

Look at the votecount. Does it look as if we all agree that Romanus is scum? CTD the last post you made with any content was 161 I think. In that post you had a go at Lumos, and also said you were suspicious of Kurtz. Kurtz hasn't replied to that. Yet you're still eager to end the day now?

[Patrick]

Interesting that Rosso is trying to keep Romanus alive by pushing for a Lumos lynch.

The kidster gives off some bad vibes, but I'm personally neutral on him. The tough thing is in that there seem to be a whole lot of scum on his wagon taking advantage of craplogic like vote-hopping. =/ IGMEO anyone whos joined late {that means probably not MBF}

A whole lot of scum? Like who? Vote hopping isn't the only thing against Romanus.

@Mike I know what you're saying but how are we supposed to tell if these two are scum if they don't say anything. Do we wait until day 3 before we start wondering about this? Genuine question. I've not played with anyone quite like Anix before.

[Patrick]

Interesting. Romanus is claiming some powerole not announced by the mod. I have no clue why Kurtz assumed Romanus isn't the doctor.

I don't know yet whether or not I believe Romanus. The setup seemed pretty open and clear cut to me. It is possible Romanus is just lying completely to try and confuse us. He claims a powerole but doesn't tell us what it is so no risk of a counterclaim. He also claims his role wasn't listed at the start. Convenient again, because if he's scum, he's not going to be counterclaimed with a possibly made up role. There is also the fact that poweroles don't tend to play unusually/erratically. They have an incentive to stay hidden. By claiming some powerole, Romanus has painted a bullseye on his own head if he's town.

What does everyone else think?

[Patrick]

Kurtz. That is what I originally thought, but if that's true, you were unbelievably stupid.

[Patrick]

Unvote

Now that the mod has told us other roles exist, Romanus is much more likely to be innocent. I'm happy to give him a night and see what he can do. I'll have a reread after work and see if I can find a good place for my vote.

[Patrick]

Mod, Colonel Kurtz is voting Anix not MBF.

[Patrick]

I've lost track of how many votes Anix has. It strikes me that although he is annoying, if this is his usual playstyle then lynching him is like a stab in the dark. Anix, do us all a favour and say something relevant.

Lumos could still be a better lynch.

[Patrick]

mod did you prod Max yet?

[Patrick]

I thought her name was lomus

[Patrick]

So in your opinion nothing at all has happened yet? Every vote totally random?

[Patrick]

Basically Anix is still talking pish. I'de love to vote him if I thought he were scum.

Lumos maybe you need to read the part where Romanus claims a powerole not mentioned at the start, then the mod confirms that these exist. It doesn't clear him but helps his case, and i'm happy to give him a night and see what he does.

[Patrick]

Which, since I am fairly sure I won't be lynched today, and am pretty sure that anix is scum, I don't feel the need to comment on.

This is cool. You must have an amazing powerole I dunno how you can be so sure when he's said next to nothing.

While i'm half tempted to vote anix out of annoyance, I still think it's rather a shot in the dark if he is just playing same way as usual. If we're lynching ppl for being unhelpful, Lumos fits the bill pretty well, and she's done a few scummy things to boot.

[Patrick]

I'd rather keep Lumos, since we can always lynch her later. It'll be easier to decide to lynch her then since she's already emitted some scummy vibes. (Notice I said VIBES, nope, it isn't definite.)

You want to keep Lumos around because she is an easy lynch for later? Oo

[Patrick]

vote: spectrumvoid

[Patrick]

Well it's true that last post of spectrumvoids was pretty scummy.

[Patrick]

Spectrumvoid, your posts seem to say that you don't understand why ppl are voting you. Here's my take on it:

I'd rather keep Lumos, since we can always lynch her later. It'll be easier to decide to lynch her then since she's already emitted some scummy vibes. (Notice I said VIBES, nope, it isn't definite.)

Possible translation: I am scum, and I want to lynch an innocent. Lumos is a relatively easy lynch for me later on so I want to keep her around. This is why you've been looking around for other lynches. You saw a chance with anix and took it. Do you understand my reason now?

I'm not sure if this is a valid defence, but if I was scum, wouldn't I have pushed for Lumos's lynch, instead of away from it?

I think that question is answered now.

I can't decide whether Kurtz is scummy or being an impulsive and overaggressive town player.

[Patrick]

one sec. What was scummy/stupid about that post by lumos? What did I miss? She just seemed to be agreeing that spectrumvoid was trying to keep her around as an easy lynch.

[Patrick]

Colonel Kurtz: 1, MBF, Spectrum void

[Patrick]

so guys wassup.
I would quite like to hear from CTD among others. He was someone who hopped onto the anix wagon without a word.

[Patrick]

I don't think thats a very fair assumption. To me time restraints mean that he will post reasons later.

I don't even know if vote hopping is so much a scumtell as a style of play.

[Patrick]

For my part I suspect mainly spectrumvoid for her incredibly scummy line. I also slightly suspect CTD who was one of the players who jumped on the Anix bandwagon without giving a reason. He blends in quite well so i'll be watching him.

[Patrick]

so elias and spectrumvoid are scumbuddies it seems Elias says he finds spectrum the most suspicious but then votes Kurtz instead.

[Patrick]

The reason is ok, but it feels strange that he would then go and vote someone else instead.

[Patrick]

CTD: Care to explain why lynching Kurtz isn't a good idea today?

I agree with CTD about this, and I don't think it should be revealed.

Just a thought I had, should we get a full role claim out of Romanus? I can't think of a drawback because if he is town, he is already a prime NK target anyway. So maybe we should try and confirm him by having his exact role? I'm not fishing but just wondering if this is a good idea. If there's some reason not to, then Romanus is it possible that you will be able to confirm yourself tomorrow?

[Patrick]

You know, I can kind of see where Romanus was coming from now with his little gut suspicion of rogue

I don't think a claim from Romanus is necessary at this point. Claiming for the sake of claiming only helps scum find the power roles, and the town wouldn't really benefit from the information at this point. Today isn't the right time to turn our attention back to Romanus, IMHO.

This is wishy washy. This would not be claiming for the sake of claiming. This would be claiming to help confirm Romanus, because atm he could be scum just saying he has a powerole. Not all that likely but possible. By getting a claim now, we force him to commit himself, so if he is scum faking, he is more likely to be countered. How does this 'only help scum find poweroles?' If Romanus is town, the scum already know he has a powerole. A full claim doesn't make him any more vulnerable. I don't understand your reasoning. The way you're also trying to steer things towards Anix again is noted. I also agree with Romanus's post 351.

@Romanus, I have no idea what your role could be, but I'm not going to press it if you don't want to full claim. I'm happy to give you some slack. I was just putting it out as a possibility.

[Patrick]

I'd certainly be up for a role claim from spectrumvoid. Would also like to hear Rosso and mike's opinions on this.

[Patrick]

Great, cop dead. I'll have a look back later. For now, i'm interested in what Romanus has to say.

[Patrick]

what's protoss?

[Patrick]

Romanus you've had enough time

to come up with a fakeclaim

to tell us your role. Spill.

[Patrick]

hmm. The problem is how do we know you aren't just a serial killer, in which case vig is the perfect claim? Going back a few posts.

elias said:

im sorry...i have no idea what protoss is.

mod replies:

Fine, let me be more blunt. There may or may not be a neutral faction in this game.

Neutral faction implies SK to me or cult or something. Either way neutral is just another kind of scum. That's what worries me.

[Patrick]

lol whoa whoa. Just the

FoS

for Romanus now, though I could easily vote him soon. I just don't like days that only last 5 minutes.
Though the claim does look awfully convenient if you are a SK. Romanus yesterday you said that it was possible you could be confirmed today. With your role, how could you have thought that to be true? In fact you've even said today that you can't prove it. Contradiction.

[Patrick]

And what was this something that needed to happen? Did you need the zergs to target you for the kill while the doc protected you?

[Patrick]

Never mind now, although it could
Open up some avenues for
Discussion tomorrow when we try to think
Of something to argue about. Though, I think there
Could be a lot of discussion tomorrow.

His last post before night. I don't know what that tells you. Either way I think Romanus you need to tell us what it was that you needed to happen that could have confirmed you because right now I can't think of a single thing.

[Patrick]

Because we told him we would lynch him otherwise.

[Patrick]

well Romanus if I were you I would answer my last question pretty quickly. I won't hammer before that but I can't vouch for anyone else.

[Patrick]

'cool stuff happens' Are you being deliberately vague? Sounds like you're making it up as you go along. You didn't mention this in your claim earlier today. Vig miller doesn't imply anything happens when scum target you.

I think I've heard enough. Pretty sure if this was your real role you would have tried harder to defend yourself and you would have given us the full details along with your claim. Apologies if you were telling the truth.

Vote: Romanus

[Patrick]

Go town.

[Patrick]

Oh man. So we had one SK, three mafia (two were more than just regular goons) and the town only gets a cop? Geez. Unbalanced. Not that town would have won with more poweroles, because the play was pretty bad. But yeah. Best forgotten about this game from my point of view.