Mini 1159 - Powerrox93's Mini Normal I (Game Over)

[bvoigt]

Hi!

[bvoigt]

Here are my reads from a quick readthrough.

Town

Jase- His reaction testing looked sincere.
C-Worl- When hammering, he must have known it would put him under some suspicion the next day. So I see a strong motivation not to do it.
Me=Weird- He seems to be actively scumhunting.
bvoigt- Please note that there is no "h" in my name. Thanks.
Zdenek- He's also asking questions and scumhunting.
crazypianist1116- His posts also seem sincere.

Not Sure

tarsonisocelot- What conclusions did you make from your reread?
imaginality
RangeroftheNorth

Scum

Uncle Pain- In ISO #8, his 3 scum reads are the three players that were the most thought-of as scum. Then in ISO #16, he says, "I really don’t know how to interpret this hammer as pro-town." To me, this seems like distancing from the [L] townflip and setting up a lynch for D2.

redtail896- His suspects in ISO #1 also coincide with the most popular lynches. He also seemed a bit too concerned with a FoS from [L] in ISO #3: "I don't understand this. Can you clarify please? What exactly did I take too far? And why do you suspect my slot?"

[bvoigt]

OK, thanks.

[bvoigt]

That is a good point about crazypianist.

[L], I'm voting for you. If you want, you can refute my case. Regardless I want more votes for you.

Well, frankly, you've seen me play as scum. I am much....shall we say....different. My town approach is to analyze more... but this game started out so disgustingly that I haven't even done that. I'll be honest - I haven't been involved in the game the way I wanted to be. I'm frustrated. But I'm not giving up on the game because I'm the type to see things through to their end.

Yes, I've seen you play as scum. That does not mean your scum play is completely unique. You could be intentionally playing differently than you were in Newbie #1082 purely in an attempt to throw me off. Or you could just be playing differently as a result of real life. What I'm trying to say here is that your playing differently does not exempt you from being scum.

It seems like a bit of a forced reason to continue pushing [L]'s mislynch.

[bvoigt]

bvoigt

: What do you think about yabbaguy and his play? How can you explain that everyone else sees me town but you see me scummy? Why don’t you vote me or redtail896? Why do you think my ISO #16 is distancing from [L]’s town flip when in the same post I give my reasons why I still supported the lynch? How can you say that I (and no one else) set up a Day 2 lynch when I was neither the only one nor the first one to mention the scumminess of C-Worl’s hammer? Do you see the WIFOMness of your C-Worl-town argument? Also, aren’t you sheeping Jase’s suspicion case against redtail896 and me? And off-topic: does your nickname stem from some German surname?

(I'll answer the quicker questions first.) I didn't really pay much attention to yabbaguy, TBH. I think most people are seeing the wallposts without looking at the underlying motivations. Yabba's vote was actually on redtail, so I'll keep it there for now. And yep, Voigt is my last name, and I'm of German descent.

I’m angry, C-Worl. This was unnecessary! Quoted for the friggin truth:

C-Worl, why did you hammer? Jase clearly explained reasons that you shouldn't hammer. We have replacements catching up. We want to hear more of TO's thoughts. We have time. This isn't prolonging for the sake of prolonging, we have things we want to get done.

I really don’t know how to interpret this hammer as pro-town.

IGMEOY C-Worl

.

And in case I’m misunderstood: I stood behind the wagon, the lynch looked good. I grant C-Worl the wish and explain my case against [L] because I realize that my points are distributed over several posts:

• The “lay of the land” statement: a bold gambit that was quickly revealed as a lie for little purpose. The reason [L] tried this was to create discussion, which looked
  really
  unbelievable after yabbaguy and Jase already pulled of retroactively justified discussion sparking and got beaten for it subsequently. Even as town [L] should have realized that this was just stupid to do. Refer to #125/#127.
  
• “her weak cases against Surprise_Carcinogen and tarsonisocelot, for a general lack of suspicions and for ignoring the bandwagons on Jase and StefanB without giving reasons.”
  (#141).
  
• The scum↔town debate about her play: while I see how this can truly be meant as a reason for her play, I usually don’t buy such things and neither did I in this game. Putting aside that I don’t like using meta as a ground for reasoning, it’s also very convenient for scum, town should never have to use this as a means to properly defend. Not that most of her play wasn’t really helping town, she even admitted to not wanting to play townie. Playing pro-town is most basic thing I expect from any pro-town player. Refer to #194/#218/#221/#246.

I’m in V/LA now until Sunday evening.

Distancing probably isn't that accurate, but it certainly reads like moving from one mislynch to the next. I remember others saying that the hammer was a bad move, but I don't remember anyone else actually calling C-Worl scummy for it.

And yeah, the C-Worl argument is WIFOM. But, Occam's Razor. And to me, his most obvious motivation is not that of scum.

Hammering was daft, nothing to add to that. Though I'm not giving up hope on [L] still being scum with C-Worl a buddy.

One random thing I noticed. Why did you say that hammering in that situation made them likely to be buddies?

About my defending thing, let me rephrase it as “I didn’t intend to defend him”. Yes, I actually do defend him by criticising arguments against him. My motivation however was and is not to rid him of attacks/attackers but to check out the ones attacking him because of the reasons they gave. At last Zdenek gave me some usable answer to my question.
Of course you are free to believe in any connection between redtail896 and me and I find it important that you at least consider it; ignoring clues doesn’t help town. Still, I’d like to state that, to my current knowledge, I’m not affiliated with him.

Scumpoints for UnclePain.

Agreed. I'm not sure exactly how to explain it, though.

[bvoigt]

I promise, most of my posts are not walls.

[bvoigt]

I think Uncle Pain is right to question bvoigt's read of him, it seems like bvoigt just trying to stick with his slot's previous reads, which I see as scummy. On the other hand, the "I'm not affiliated with redtail" remark is pretty odd - tarsonisocelot is right to call him on this....

What is scummy about having the same reads as yabbaguy?

I remember others saying that the hammer was a bad move, but I don't remember anyone else actually calling C-Worl scummy for it.

Well, if you count actual votes as well, there are already eight people calling C-Worl scummy: the ones voting him, plus Jase, tarsonisocelot and imaginality (as stated in their posts).

Oh, I should have clarified. You had the strongest reaction

before

[L] flipped. And yes, I know she implied she was town after the hammer, but scum will also do that. And it sounded like you were still supportive of the lynch.

@Zdenek: What's your read on C-Worl?

[bvoigt]

What is scummy about having the same reads as yabbaguy?

It’s convenient to completely agree with the preceding slot player. It’s supposed to look consistent but in fact it looks opportunistic and can be seen as minimising the effort put into the reads. Hence the scumminess.

That doesn't really make sense to me. For one thing, would anyone actually question my reads just because they were different from Yabba's? And why is it "opportunistic?" I don't see how I was taking advantage of the opportunity to get a lynch, especially since I have a town read on C-Worl.

[bvoigt]

Like I said the dead QT, it's good that the scum killed me before I either got mislynched or pushed cases on a bunch of townies. Good game everyone, and thanks for modding, Powerrox.

...no comment from anyone about the set-up?

Anyway, this set-up looks a bit swingy with the deputy. Yes I know that but it's also hard to predict the human factor. In this game the cop didn't get back any results the first two nights and the bodyguard didn't do anything during the first two nights.

I like the setup. Doesn't a deputy actually reduce swinginess, though? Even if the cop dies early, you'll still have the backup getting results.

A suggestion is to be a little more lenient with the rules-- for example, when Jase violated the claiming to be scum rule, it was pretty clear that he was being sarcastic/outlining a hypothetical situation, not really claiming scum.