Mini 44, Trouble In the Toybox, Game Over!

[MeMe]

Random vote: Wacky

Welcome to mafiascum!

[MeMe]

Well mathcam, you can take comfort in the fact that I both understand and crack up at your little jokes.

[MeMe]

Four of six votes already. Huh.

~makes little notes and watches events unfold with avid interest~

[MeMe]

Wow, you guys really are mafia-starved.

Bandwagon starved, more like. Careful -- two quick votes will lynch him and, even if he's scum, we'll have very little information for day two. Let's just chat a while, shall we? After all, we're still waiting for two of our playmates (Fishbulb & Totem) to speak up.

[MeMe]

I'm just curious as to what the bandwagoners were hoping to accomplish. A role claim? A teary breakdown confessing guilt? Not only did mathcam do nothing to prompt the wagon, but he hasn't done much to disperse it either. Was that what you were looking for? Nonchalance in the face of madness? The wagon built so quickly and then disappeared with equal rapidity. I think that's incredibly weird.

unvote: Wacky
FOS: mikehart & FinalFear

I'm not including Norinel in my FOS at the moment as he seems to be making his own decisions: placing the anti-random vote on cam & unvoting him with a semi-reason, rather than being blown by the wind.

[MeMe]

Vote: MeMe

just cause i think hes a smart ass

Ouch, now that hurt my feelings. Not the smartass thing -- but that you called me "he."

[MeMe]

Norinel, it sounds to me as though you're advocating that anyone who is currently FOSing mikehart should just go ahead and vote him...which would cause another quick bandwagon. Interesting suggestion considering that starting the camwagon is what has cast some suspicion on you -- do you really want to do it again?

[MeMe]

Let's get this going, folks! I think that, upon further inspection, I'm leaning towards voting mathcam and I've got two reasons:

1. His last wishy-washy post

Well, I'm certainly not saying that there's that strong of a case. It takes a fairly remarkable event to have a strong case against someone on day 1. I'm just saying that if we had to pick someone, and we essentially do, then I'd go with one of the people that might have hoped to get in a quick day 1 so they could get back to killing people. Punishing people for reckless bandwagonning? No. Ok, well, maybe a little. Punishing them for being a sheep? Certainly. That's the way its easiest for the mafia to remain inconspicuous.

My translation: "Well there's not a strong case against mikehart -- but, gee, we

have

to lynch someone (oh how I wish it were different! Damn this game and its infernal rules of killing) and it should be someone who was trying to kill me. It seems like I'm punishing him for bandwagoning -- I'm not! Well, maybe I am, but it's not my NUMERO UNO reason. The #1 reason is that he voted for me! I mean, that he voted for me fourth! I mean that he follows people...because mafia follows people! With guns too!"

What? Smartass? Me?

2. mathcam's a posting machine -- very quick. He posted in general discussion...and then it took him a half hour to come up with the post I quote above. For him, that's an eternity. I think it's possible he was being very careful with his post wording.

vote: mathcam

[MeMe]

Wacky - we're never going to be left in the dark about when a deadline is. PolarBoy will warn us.

Fishbulb - it might not be fair to look at post times in general, but this is mathcam! Like I said: posting machine. Don't look at my "translation," just read his post. To me it seems to be using a lot of words to simply have it both ways, i.e. "I'm voting him, but I don't think I've got a strong reason."

[MeMe]

A new gambit?

The

cambit

: agreeing with your accuser completely, and then saying it was all a poor attempt at humor.

Enter it into the lexicon!

[MeMe]

Prime suspect #1: Raggedy Andy. The pre-game death certainly sounded like a fit of passion...perhaps an unholy tryst between Ann & Joe set Andy off on a jealous rampage?

[MeMe]

Buzz doesn't have suction darts, but I think he was a victim of them.

[MeMe]

Yes, we'll have to rely on my brilliant deductive reasoning to find scum...

[MeMe]

Um, hello? I thought we were all mafia-starved here...?

[MeMe]

Just curious, mikehart: you don't consider a 4-person bandwagon against you worth commenting on?

[MeMe]

I still like my mathcam vote, but will switch to mikehart this evening if he doesn't come up with something better than "I haven't done anything" by then.

[MeMe]

btw, i think arguing would be useless since most of you have your minds made up already

Four out of 10 playing this game (besides mikehart) is not

most

. I have been reluctant to vote for you since the initial reason was "he was fourth on the bandwagon" and I thought the case against cam was stronger than that.

But since you don't seem willing to even attempt to stay in the toybox, why shouldn't I vote for you? It's everyone's responsibility to try to win this game, regardless of role. If you can't/won't do that, I will indeed add my vote to the count against you.

[MeMe]

Hmm...does a vote switch qualify as "something better than 'I haven't done anything'"? Not in my opinion and a promise is a promise.

unvote: mathcam
vote: shelper

[MeMe]

I had shelper on the brain, as I just messed up his account! Yes, mikehart.

unvote: shelper
vote: mikehart

[MeMe]

And, actually, he's still two votes shy of being lynched -- mathcam unvoted a few posts up.

[MeMe]

Something I just noticed -- not sure what it means, though.

Eastern Standard Times listed:

9:47 p.m. Wednesday: JereIC quotes PB, following text contains an lol icon
12:47 a.m. Thursday: JereIC quotes FF, following text contains an lol icon
12:22 p.m. Friday: JereIC quotes PB, following text contains an lol icon
12:04 p.m. Saturday: JereIC quotes PB, following text contains an lol icon

Looks to me as though part of JereIC's role demands that every real-life day he quote someone and include a lol icon. Care to explain what happens when you succeed with your posting condition, Jere?

[MeMe]

Does it say "townie" in your role?

Also, I'd like some input on the quote boxes + that JereIC's been posting. Doesn't anyone else find it odd/interesting/worth commenting on?

[MeMe]

On Jereic and quotes means he's either very creative scum or his role has something to do with a cookie impression thing. Plastacine (sp?) mould? A mason recruiter?

I wouldn't lynch him on that either.

1) Creative scum - doubtful. Why call attention to himself when he should be trying to blend in?
2) Cookie impression - what does this mean?
3) Mason recruiter - that'd probably make the town pretty powerful, not likely in a mini game

It's my guess that Jere gets some kind of perk if he fulfills the criteria. Could be good (protection/investigation), could be bad (night kill). I would guess him as working alone...a group depending on one person to fulfill conditions is a risky role to write -- it could screw the entire group's effectiveness if that one person didn't play hard.

On mikehart, I want to know if PB

called

him a townie or if that's just mike's own interpretation of what he is.

[MeMe]

having a posting restriction (Or pretending to have one) could be good or bad.

It's my firm belief that there's never a good reason for pro-town roles to pretend to be anything more elaborate than what they actually are. How could "pretending to have" a posting restriction be a good thing? A pro-town role pretending something only adds to the confusion that we're trying to untangle. It is my opinion that if Jere's faking a restriction, he'd have to be scum.

[MeMe]

The explanation makes sense, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a toy that fits with the claim.

[MeMe]

I've asked twice and have yet to get an answer from mikehart on whether "townie" is his interpretation of his role or PolarBoy's own wording. Why no reply?

[MeMe]

I am a pro-town toy with no night abilities. My role PM referred to me by my toy name -- not "townie." As this does not match mikehart's claim, it will take confirmation from another townsperson that their role also included the term "townie" to get me to move my vote off of him at this point.

[MeMe]

unvote: mikehart

re

vote: mathcam

[MeMe]

I feel like I have little choice now but to go after someone whose doggedly and relentlessly trying to get me lynched for being "wishy-washy"

Considering that no one followed my lead the first time I voted for you (and that I came out as a no-night-ability pro-town toy just a few posts up) I think you're a bit paranoid, 'cam.

[MeMe]

Argh. I hate it when it becomes a major factor, or any factor for that matter, precisely how role pms give motive, as I more or less consider it indirect role pm quoting.

Paraphrasing

mod PMs isn't against the rules, Nori -- if it were, no one could ever honestly role claim. I've heard players complain about this before, but I just don't understand why...I find that a scum can often be tripped up by specific role wording. Why do you think I wanted mikehart to answer the question

before

saying how my role was worded? So he couldn't take his cue from me...conversely, if I were scum fishing for role wording information from him, I wouldn't have claimed to not have the same wording in my role. Role PM wording may be a moot point in this game, but generally it's an effective investigative tactic.

[MeMe]

Since I'm getting no back-up for my mathcam vote...I would also be happy to get rid of FinalFear.

He's posted a total of three times, the content of which are:

1) third on the day one camwagon
2) unvotes cam after Norinel & mikehart remove their votes
3) votes Norinel with a quasi-reason and then calls it random

The third one was posted last Wednesday -- and that's the last we've heard from him.

If the toybox at large feels more comfy keeping mathcam alive now, I'd switch my vote to FF.

[MeMe]

vote: JereIC

There's no reason to think anyones scummy really...random vote btw.

Yeah, sorry -- JereIC, not Norinel. But he did call it "random."

unvote: mathcam
vote: FinalFear

[MeMe]

Uh, whoa. Five out of six necessary votes in less than an hour? Sure he's not defending himself, mlaker...there was no reason to until a few minutes ago.

unvote: FinalFear

I'd like to give him a chance to say

something

.

FOS: mlaker

[MeMe]

Too slow again!

[MeMe]

Anyone else finding mlaker's sudden passion to lynch FinalFear a bit um...

rabid

? He placed the fifth vote -- unvoted him immediately after Nori & I did (and it was no longer necessary to remove any votes) and is now simply regurgitating reasons given by others earlier to press the "lynch FF" issue.

[MeMe]

I don't know how much longer I want to wait on FF...non-participation really gets on my nerves.

[MeMe]

Um...what, Fishbulb?

My posts concerning FinalFear (first two paraphrased):

1) I wanna keep voting mathcam but since no one else does, here are some reasons I wouldn't mind voting FinalFear
2) Responded to Norinel, to clarify my earlier claim (got FF's vote wrong - but that he called it "random" right) and to actually vote for FinalFear
3)

Uh, whoa. Five out of six necessary votes in less than an hour? Sure he's not defending himself, mlaker...there was no reason to until a few minutes ago.

unvote: FinalFear

I'd like to give him a chance to say

something

.

FOS: mlaker

and my most recent one 4)

I don't know how much longer I want to wait on FF...non-participation really gets on my nerves.

mlaker's posts:
1) after less than an hour from FinalFear's first vote:

FF doesn't seem to be trying to defend himself so

Vote Final Fear

mlaker

2) after I my #3 post above

I'm sorry I didn't look at the time the votes were cast. But we didn't seem to be getting anywhere so I jumped on a bandwagon.

Unvote Final Fear

FOS Final Fear

I'll give him a chance to do something.

mlaker

3)

I'm giving Final Fear 1 day to give an answer,then my vote goes on him.If he is gone he broke the rule of posting or telling the mod that he was gone.I think he could just be lurking so 1 day.

mlaker

4) responding to Fletcher pointing out that FF's breaking no rules

Gotcha but I still give him a day. He has to be ignoring or lurking or he would have had some acknowledement.He hasn't been in the Toybox for a while!

mlaker

5) a double post, 8 minutes after #4 above

FF hasn't posted in this thread since July 23.If that is not lurking I don't know what is.

mlaker

6) in response to me calling him rabid

I was frusterated at FF for lurking,and I'm not the most patient guy.I'll wait until I hear from FF to do my voting.

mlaker

So...like I said, I'm not rabid. But I've now got my eye on you, Fishbulb, especially if mlaker turns out to be scummy.

[MeMe]

I never let accusations about me hang unanswered. To clarify, I hate non-posters; I pointed FinalFear out as a non-poster. mlaker, who hadn't seemed to notice FF before has now gone into posting overdrive about FF's lurking.

Now to answer this:

That's great that you have your eye on me (even though I already came out as town), but I'm not sure what that has to do with mlaker.

You characterized my posts about FinalFear as being the same as mlaker's. I have shown that they are not the same. It sounds to me as though you're trying to take focus off of mlaker and subtly redirect my way.

That's

what it has to do with mlaker.

And as for the "even though I already came out as town" portion of the above quote: check the thread. I did too. If you want to use coming out as a defense, you would need to apply it to my credit as well.

[MeMe]

My role made it obvious that I'm helping to get the killers out of the playroom, it was easy to deduce that I was a townie -- but the role just didn't come right out and

say

"townie," I only had my toy name. Because of the wording of my role, I was pretty skeptical of mikehart's claim of being told absolutely that he was a townie. That has now been rectified by the post you quote from PB.

[MeMe]

How could he forget the

only game he's in

?

vote: FinalFear

[MeMe]

I received a PM saying that I was I was wrapped up so I couldn't go anywhere -- I think this signifies a role blocking, not an attempted kill. If we do indeed have a role blocker, we should, as a town, discuss a target.

My suspicions:
mlaker
mathcam
Fletcher - because he's the only player in this game I've got no notes on. Laying low?

We've lost 4 pro-town roles...with 8 players left and at least 2 possible kills nightly, we need to be extremely careful today.

[MeMe]

Looking back over my notes, I see nothing on Wacky either. Anyone else got observations to share on Fletcher or Wacky?

[MeMe]

I'll just reiterate my last post...

If I have no notes on someone, it means they've done nothing to make me think they're suspicious nor have they cleared themselves...they've just kind of been nondescript, not standing out in any way. Wacky's response is so informative that it borders on the defensive. Then again, he could just be refreshingly honest. I'm not sure which.

[MeMe]

Oh - and Kerplunk replaced Norinel. We're supposed to give a big Billy's room welcome...

[MeMe]

I suppose I seem so modlike because you're on my list of suspicious people. After all, a mod

knows

....

PolarBoy announced the replacement yesterday. I was just repeating it because it was lost (and isn't currently on the front page either).

[MeMe]

I received a PM saying that I was I was wrapped up so I couldn't go anywhere -- I think this signifies a role blocking, not an attempted kill. If we do indeed have a role blocker, we should, as a town, discuss a target.

As you can see, I consider a blocking role as probably pro-town...Since I've made it clear that I think you're probably anti-town, I don't suspect you of packing putty.

Deliberate misdirection, cam?

[MeMe]

Cool.

vote: mathcam

(That's 3 of 5)

[MeMe]

I certainly try my darndest not to role claim unless it's absolutely necessary, regardless of my role...so that "miracle" isn't why I'm voting for mathcam. You can find my very impressive reasons for doing so earlier in the thread...

However, I did notice that on Wacky's list o' Ms, he left off myself (but I'm not going to complain about that) and mlaker (who I find suspicious). Now I'm kind of wondering about a possible mlaker/Wacky connection.

[MeMe]

Vote: DP

Is he even in the game?

Nope.

Post above: "I agree with MeMe because I think she's a cop! She thinks I'm suspicious so she can't be a cop! Now I'll disagree with her because I was wrong about the cop thing!"

Or something.

[MeMe]

Looking at this:

I was listing people I suspected of being mafia (both happened to begin with M), hence MeMe wasn't listed. She was why I voted for cam in the first place.

and this

vote: mathcam

...<middle snipped>...I don't feel right about mathcam. Also MeMe has that same feeling.

I'm beginning to feel as though I'm being prematurely set up for blame. Is it only paranoia? I don't know.

MATHCAM: I need you to help me out here. Tell me why I should stop suspecting you so I can shift my focus onto the many others in this game who look scum-scum-scummy to me!

[MeMe]

There is currently only one player (besides me) whom I trust in this game. I don't think I've

ever

been this confused.

[MeMe]

Oh shit. I must've hit "edit" instead of "quote" and I just overwrote your whole post, cam.

[MeMe]

And it was a really good post! Do you happen to have it still?

Oh - everyone - I'm really sorry. That's just horrible.

[MeMe]

Maybe you can hit "back" a few times on your keyboard and return to where you were writing that post? That works for me sometimes! I tried it, but all I get is my edited version.

[MeMe]

I apologize for the post string, folks. I was just banging out stuff quickly to see if Cam could retrieve it. Quick recap of what just happened:

Moderators have an "edit" button right next to the "quote" button (what a horrible place for it, I now realize). I meant to quote a small portion of his long post to ask a question about it. Instead, I hit "edit" and erased most of what he had typed. The post above which is attributed to mathcam is actually my reply to his now missing post. He said he'll re-compose it later when he's got time as it's no longer accessible by going back on his browser.

Sorry, everyone. There was absolute absence of malice in my mistake!

[MeMe]

Obviously, if you stay alive, we'll never know whether a role claim you make is fake or not, so you've hardly painted yourself into a corner yet. No one in this game is confirmed innocent, so someone coming forward after/if you claim saying, "Cam's not Mr. Potato Head,

I

am!" just becomes a player in a their word against yours game. Alright, now that I've put that on the record...

unvote: mathcam
vote: mlaker

Yes, I know he's on vacation, but he's able to check in intermittently, at least.

[MeMe]

That's four out of five votes...let him talk before any other votes, please.

[MeMe]

A one-time cop? Have you checked anyone yet?

And, for the record, it's not Fletcher's vote that made me vote for you -- it was your FinalFear rampage on Day One.

[MeMe]

I'm not certain, of course, but I find the claim of "just a stuffed dog" highly suspect.

Because of the "Giant Teddy Bear" and my role name...I'm actually kinda buying it.

unvote: mlaker
vote: Fletcher

Just moving on down the line, folks. Though mikehart & JereIC's lack of posts are kinda starting to irritate me....

[MeMe]

I see mikehart posted yesterday (just four words, though); but we've heard nothing from Jere since Day 1.

[MeMe]

unvote: Fletcher
vote: mlaker

I can confirm that I am a toy with stitches -- and that'd be a pretty incredible guess for Fletcher to have made. Stuffed Dog getting recharged? Good try, mlaker... and good job, Fletcher!

And

FOS: Wacky

(again with the mlaker/Wacky connection!) for forcing Fletcher to fully claim instead being more vague. He only had three votes, not four.

Ahh, okay then

Unvote Fletcher

I'm just assuming that was everyone elses motive. I haven't sniffed yet.

[MeMe]

Either Fletcher or mlaker is a liar (I'm dismissing the possibility of them both telling the truth and Fletcher being insane or whatever because of the nature of his role -- a spy-type -- he'd have to be on hallucinogens to "see" the wrong thing. From what I hear, Jack Stone just says "no" to drugs).

If you believe Fletcher -- vote for mlaker.

If you believe mlaker -- vote for Fletcher.

We have got to get it together here. If there's a problem with my thinking, kindly point it out. Otherwise, let's vote together and make some progress!

[MeMe]

Fletcher's explanation is certainly believable.

And let me add that if we do succeed in lynching mlaker and he is indeed scumscumscum, I'll really be wondering about those of you who didn't vote for him.

[MeMe]

MIKEHART...KERPLUNK....WACKY

One of you guys need to get on the stick and vote for mlaker. Why are we dragging out this day unnecessarily? One more vote and we can all get some sleep. There's no use protecting him anymore -- even if you're scum VOTE HIM and let's get this game moving. The longer you wait, the more suspicion is cast on each of you.

If mlaker's innocent, I'll eat my stuffing.

[MeMe]

Oh - we're still talking? Well then, let me point out to you, Wacky, that mlaker

did

role claim -- dog...sniff...ring a bell?

Or were you talking about Fletcher? Who

also

role claimed?

I just wanted to get in some twilight words -- after all, it wouldn't be fair letting the scum talk up the dusk alone.

[MeMe]

vote: Wacky

I realize that, according to Fletcher, he didn't do the killing last night. But "plugged in" sounds too much like the mlaker result for me to ignore. I imagine there's one more in their group that did the actually deed last night -- Kerplunk, perhaps?

[MeMe]

Well, that's four. ~crosses fingers~

[MeMe]

Wrong lynch today will lose us the game. Let's be very careful and not vote until we're sure. I propose that we all role claim and go from there.

I'm just a no-night-choice Sock Monkey townie.

[MeMe]

1)

mikehart

-- Way back when I said that I only trusted one person completely -- that person was mikehart. My trust stems from him being the first to say, in thread, that his role said (town) in it. I'm not sure now, however, if that still holds up. It seemed strong to me at the time, because I lacked the signifier...I'm not so sure now.

2)

Kerplunk

-- There

is

a putty wielder in the game because I was tied up with it one night. I believe that Norinel/Kerplunk had this ability -- the question is, are they mafia or town? Is it possible that the mafia could have a one-time ability to block someone? I flat out don't believe that PolarBoy wouldn't wait for the choice -- the night was

short

, which leads me to believe he got all choices.

3)

JereIC

-- I believe the Tickle-Me-Elmo claim...somewhat. But why would you be instructed to quote & laugh after ever instance of your name...but then admonished to stop doing it for the vote counts?

In closing -- I trust no one...but Kerplunk looks most questionable to me.

[MeMe]

My thoughts on this? If we have TWO killing groups left then the best thing to do is a no-lynch. If we decide to lynch, even if we get one baddie today and the other one kills the following night, one townie and one killer left the next day means that the killer won. With both of them left alive, at least we have the chance they'll kill each other or will be role blocked, etc.

If we have ONE killer left...we'll be in the same boat tomorrow that we're in today, so why not just try to suss out the baddie today?

So, what does everyone think we've got here? One or two killers left?

[MeMe]

During night 2 Norinel blocked MeMe. I haven't blocked anyone else. Last night I wanted to, but somehow PolarBoy didn't waited for my nightchoice. Too bad, we could have had a confirmed innocent or a definite evil.

This is where I'm getting hung up with Kerplunk. I just don't buy that PolarBoy wouldn't wait for a night choice. The night was a quick one -- less than 9 hours. Am I seriously supposed to believe that PolarBoy wouldn't wait longer than that? The short night screams "all choices were in early" to me.

The idea about Potatohead being customizable is intriguing. I like it...and it would explain why the silly putty only showed up once.

Basically, I'm ready to vote for Kerplunk...but will wait until everyone has another say or two.

[MeMe]

Vote: Kerplunk

[MeMe]

Now I'm all nervous.

[MeMe]

Ugh - mikehart, change your avatar. It's screwing up every page it's on.

[MeMe]

Meme and mikehart, why didn't you go with no lynch Day 4?

I thought Kerplunk was full of sh*t about PolarBoy not waiting for his night choice...seemed inconceivable to me that we'd have such a short night and someone not have an opportunity to make a choice. Then Kerplunk said that PB admitted his mistake in a PM -- since we'd already had a precedent in this game with the mod noting an error in the thread (with the note to everyone about my original role lacking the notifier "town") but he didn't publicly say anything like "erm, not everyone may have had enough time to make a choice" this time, I became convinced it was a complete lie and I just wanted to wrap up the game.

[MeMe]

Ah, just read PB's explanatory post (after I posted the above). Anyway...

Tons of fun, PolarBoy. Great roles! Thanks for modding.

And congratulations, JereIC -- the quoting/laughing thing was genius.

[MeMe]

JereIC, you have every reason to feel good about your win. All of my suspicions about you were just passing "but maybe..."-type suspicions. You handled everything coolly. I almost think I may have turned on mikehart (my one sure innocent!) before going after you.

Well played.

[MeMe]

Also didn't realise MeMe would think that there were 3 mafia and 1 SK in a game of 12, and that other people would believe her.

Go read the archives, Wacky. Three maf & 1 SK is a fairly standard set-up -- as is two mafia families of two each...and I've even been in a game with two mafia families of three each (yes -- it was unbalanced) and another with and SK and two mafia families each made up of a godfather and a goon. This is the first 2-mafia, 1 SK game that I remember.

[MeMe]

...I didn't know he was in the room...I was so relieved when PB told us it wouldn't screw up the game! Like he said earlier -- always take concerns/screw-ups to the mod. It might not be as bad as you think! But it should be at the mod's discretion, because it's possible it's even

worse

than you think!