Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[Lateralus22]

I heard there was scum in ur town... killin ur townies... so the authorities called me up and asked me to find those heathen scumbags and send em to the brig, and deliver a clean kill to save the beautiful town and all the wonderful people in it.

This is a formal admission of confirmation, Lateralus22 is infact... here.

[Lateralus22]

Yes, welcome me, I assure you that I do infact, come in peace. I would like everyone to give me their top three suspects as I read through the thread. Since you're reading Nacho you can start. Who should I be wary of, could you please bring me up to speed?

[Lateralus22]

Hey, it's like 4:42 AM lol. So I've read through the thread, no giant catch up post but a better post shall come soon I assure you. I like Nacho's reads, singer has been a consistent scum read of mine throughout the whole game while Agar isn't too clean either.

Not sure about sims/reck though, what's the reasoning for Seraphim town?

[Lateralus22]

The curious case of

Benjamin Button

Singsinger

Man, the CC vs SS argument was tedious. Two major problems throughout though, first we have this gem here where she states it doesn't matter if someone had scum motivation for asking her a question or not but she refused to answer a question to find out that motivation? Those ideas contradict because if she doesn't think it matters, what's the point of asking? That's the thing, throughout this argument I don't get the sense she actually does care about someone's alignment. This pattern repeats itself once again after the heated debate in finished, where she drops the whole case without a word till CC brings it up once again.

That's just weird man, here's the thing, SS was obviously emotionally invested in this argument shown here but when you're that against someone and you think they're scum you don't just drop the case like that, especially when the majority of it she spent her time snapping back at CC with the whole

nononnonno you're misrepping me!

nonsense. The bottom line is, when you read her side of the debate it comes across as she's purely attacking for the sake of winning, but not because she's trying to evaluate and figure out CC's alignment.

The only thing I do like about SS is that she's active and spends a fair amount of her time attacking. But another thing is when she does question, this falls back into the same routine of vicious attacks. I originally liked how she questioned Gud shown here but here when she does get her answers it's the same old thing again. Snarky attacks where to the point at the conclusion it actually looks like she's trying to convince Gud himself that he should be lynched, I'm not even sure here if she even does think Gud is scum with the whole

hai guy it's liek so cool we have one mislynch

line.

Now onto Day 2, her vote is awful. Exactly man, who does try to make an alliance with an Sk? You're berated her for being unorthodox, what is the scum motivation for this? Sure you did explain later but what you're saying is fundamentally wrong. You're using words like

"unintelligible"

and

"unexperienced

as a method to discredit here. But here's the thing, CC joined this forum in 2007 so that shows can't even be bothered to get your facts right.

I love this line,

Just because you claim something is omgus, doesn't make it true.

This is exactly what you just did to me right here. You immediately attacked me and accused me of OMGUS as a method to discredit to, the hostility you've shown reads more as defensive scum because you don't have some giant case against CC, you weren't even confident enough in your vote to keep it over your V/LA with the whole

my vote is useless over V/LA!"

scene. Look at the last line of the last link in this post, this is a baseless attack. This is affront to discredit me when I was obviously just trying to get reads, communicating directly with people helps immensely with that.

tl;dr

Lack of genuine play, simply tries to win arguments as opposed to put an honest effort into reading people.

Hostile attacks consist of repetition of buzz words and the like to discredit her targets, this seems to be her MOI.

The sudden drop of the CC case, weak case on day two.

[Lateralus22]

1. Okay. But I don't see you at all trying to actually evaluate her alingment. All I saw was constant attacks, nothing more.

2. MOI = Method of Operation, I don't see you purely discrediting arguments, here is an example of you discrediting a person.

Also, no. This is just scum asking the other townies to say, hey, who do you already think is scum so when I read through the thread, I can have a little confirmation bias and already pin these people as scum.

3. I'm talking about the CC case, not Gud. The moment everyone started complaining about it you took off when you saw no one else was interested. You kept your suspicions on the side only bringing them up when CC attacked you again.

3b. I considered this and this to be your case. This were your reasons and they are weak. Not interested in getting in a semantics argument on what a "case" is.

Attack the results, not the method of finding them.

I've done both, your method of getting them is scummy.

Oh, and your little gem about me making fun of your suspicion of me, but not agreeing with the previous OMGUS declaration before (can't remember who it was), is cute. What is that...an argument?

I literally can not understand what you're saying here. Please clarify.

[Lateralus22]

Unvote;
Vote: Agar

We shall dance until you die, you and I. First thing's first, your vote sucks. CC in no way

ignored

the Gud wagon at all. The bottom line is, what you're saying is false. You're how CC was the one who wanted to make a deal with the

devil

SK and that she was the one who was trying to make the counter wagon. Seriously, just look at this links, she in no way ignored the Gud wagon.

(1-2-3-4-5-6)

Oh, Reck has an awesome case btw.

I will however be very happy to switch to SS if anyone wishes to join me

I believe, the two of us are now tied at 4 votes. What does everyone think of my case against SS, anyone want to tip the scale?

[Lateralus22]

ebwop: You're

ignoring

how CC was the one

[Lateralus22]

1. You're missing the point, key word is

evaluate

. There is none of that, only constant attacks.

2. You're side stepping around my point. Accusing someone of OMGUS or calling them unintelligible is a way to discredit someone.

when you immediately turn around and respond to the next thing with "you took off when no one was interested."

This has nothing to do with discrediting people or Semantics, I'm stating a fact. Did you constantly ask for people to look back at the CC/SS debate? Did you try to bring it up again instead of purely going after Gud unless CC initiated it?

Btw… Semantics arguments are based purely on word choice, my argument isn't that at all. You had reasons, I called them out as weak. Do't care if you want to name it a case or not.

Go to my WoT and show everyone where everything is clouded in my own interpretation.

3. When you strongly think someone is scum you go after them hard, you dropped the case easily unless initiated. That's it. I think you'e both scum, I'm voting the one with a wagon. I'm still going to attack you.

Regarding the Jem, doesn't change anything. You were only trying to discredit my slot. Did you really think that was all I was going to post and not have any reasoning?

---

Singer, why am I scum? Since you think so strongly of this make a nice concise case for all to see please.

lol like really, I don't actually know why you're voting me other than your Beef with CC... I see you replying to my attacks and throwing dirt at me but that's about it.

[Lateralus22]

Agar, I have no idea why you're accusing me of promoting CC's alliance with the sk as pro-town. I don't remember saying that so please bring up a direct quote, regardless I don't see what is scummy about that when scum have more to fear in a short term basis.

Either way, you completely side tracked from my whole entire point. You said accused me of something false, I refuted it and layed a vote down. You never even responded to my direct points.

---

Everyone who hasn't said so:

Singer-scum, Yay or Nay?

Moth/Sera/powerrox:

Lat vs Agar for the lynch. Take a pick.

[Lateralus22]

ebwop: you accused

[Lateralus22]

Get well soon Thor.

mothrax, can you tell my why you think Agar is town and why you think I'm scum? Why don't you agree with the case against him?

I'd also like SS to give me her other two suspects besides myself and why they're scum.

[Lateralus22]

Agar isn't playing to his town meta.

[Lateralus22]

Wanting to win arguments =/= scum BTW.

I don't get what's wrong with my case. I'm saying she's only trying to win arguments as opposed to legitimately read her targets, AKA she doesn't believe what she's spewing, she just wants to push through. Let me put it this way… when you're town do you

only

come in to debate with people and argue them to death?

First of all, your player slot was one of the few players off of the Guderian wagon. If you're not scum, which of the other players not on the wagon would you peg most likely to be scum?

I think all the scum are on the Gud wagon, regardless I'd probably say mothrox based on PoE. But even then I just think he's a moron and that he his feelings for Agar are genuine.

Second, how valid do you think my case on the player you replaced is? I'm not asking you to defend or attack it, it's unfortunately mostly useless now.

It was a really boring argument, I skimmed the first time around. I didn't even remember much so I had to go reread it.

-Wagon analysis part is bad.
-Saying she was avoiding the Gud issue is wrong when that's what she spent her time talking all about.
-CC got pretty emotional concerning Gud, I don't agree with her attacks on you since they're pretty bad too. This stems from the theory shit about whether keeping the SK alive is good or not.
-when we got to the semantics shit and the ass kissing I figure you win that part since I don't even know what she's talking about there.

Third, what you do if I changed my vote to singersigner? What if some other player moved his vote to singersigner?

idk. Probobly blink, wonder why exactly your doing so and question you about it or something. I'd take off if I thought SS wagon was actually going to go through.

Fourth, finally, and most importantly, what is love?

Idk man, I don't do philosophy.

[Lateralus22]

If she is just attacking players for sake of attacking them, that would be something but I don't see any evidence of this. This is why your case is ultimately bad. Not scummy, just wrong.

I suggest going through her crap once again. She constantly tries to twist around for the sake of and always discredits her targets. There is no townie paranoia of

oh hey maybe I'm wrong, or these new posts make me feel differently

or anything like that, and when she dropped the case that seriously shows she didn't believe her crap. I don't know how to put it any clearer.

Sometimes I find that's the only way I can engage myself in the game and not lurk, debate.

But those debates come with the purpose of actually figuring out someone's alignments.

Lemme rephrase this point...she didn't give any compelling arguments for why his motives were town which I found bad for someone who continued to actively push against it.

Don't remember the exact details, I figured she had a really strong belief in Gud not being scum and based her attacks around that. She did muse a bit of logic concerning this.

This vote is presumably backed up with reasoning. Mine giving this question another go?

Consider the reasoning, probably switch to SS since there's some momentum and continue our debate even more along with continuing to try and read her and get to completely explain her reads. If the wagon still doesn't take off I'd hop back to Agar.

[Lateralus22]

This is an interesting perspective given that I'm fairly sure one scum dodged the wagon because of how dodgy it was(yes, I'll be the first to admit that the wagon was dodgy... necessary but dodgy). Besides AGar and singersigner, who is the last scum if I may inquire?

Meh. Again that isn't always the case, trying to start a counter wagon isn't going to make people love you or praise you for being right. They'll only get ticked off you mention this and this seriously puts CC under the spot light and this wouldn't even raise her credibility since the I doubt the flip would make the masses suddenly change their theory beliefs.

Idk who the last scum is. If it's either of Reck/IAU then one of them is bussing... but I can't tell which. Reck has solid points and he reads pretty damn town so I don't think it's him. IAU bussing straight off the bat is kinda weird, I dunno if he's the busser type. I've played with him before and I know his view of unorthadox play is consistent with his town game though.

Pr is playing to his town meta.
moth is meh.
Thor scum would have me perplexed but I'm not even going to worry about that now when his play has been solid town.
Nacho is like, a super town read.
Idk about you man, the questioning seems pretty pro town since it makes me think you do care about alignment but I don't think my case is as weak as you're saying.

[Lateralus22]

Unvote;
Vote: singer

That was weird. mothrox can you articulate what made you change your mind? Is ANYONE else interested in switching? I don't get the feeling anyone else wants to so some support would be cool.

Agar and singer should come back. Wish Sera could come on again so we can finish up our Q&A session.

[Lateralus22]

meh, deadline in two days. Doubt the SS lynch is going to pull through with that much time.
IAU's town. Dunno about Sera

unvote:
vote: Agar

[Lateralus22]

would like to see Agar put at L-1 an have someone willing to hammer Asap.

[Lateralus22]

Mod: When is the EXACT time for the deadline?

Saturday, January 8th at 2:00 PM EST.

Lat is not pleased with Agar stalling the claim. I'd rather we just hammer.

[Lateralus22]

I feel like he's scum waiting out to claim pr so we don't have time to switch and the day ends in a no lynch. Does this make sense to anyone else?

[Lateralus22]

pr's already voting him.

[Lateralus22]

Yes

I don't get why it's so important though.

[Lateralus22]

Vote: Deadline Extention

[Lateralus22]

eh wtf? Why aren't you hammering Agar?

[Lateralus22]

I'm so confused O_O

Sera's on the site... no reason not to hammer...

[Lateralus22]

mhm, Sera I can see you reading.

[Lateralus22]

what?

[Lateralus22]

What are everyone's thoughts on massclaiming today, then no lynching, then lynching tomorrow?

Yeah, this sounds good.

[Lateralus22]

Aha, this is open. Anyway, I'm fairly sure I have a guilty result today that should make things considerably easier.

I'm a watcher, first of all.

I targeted Thor N1. He was my strongest town read and I felt, out of all the players, he was the towniest. No one visited him.
I targeted Nachomamma N2. Same deal with N1. No one visited him.
I targeted Mothrax N3. I targeted him because of a vibe I got...I dunno Guess what? I got a result. Mothrax was visited last night. Mothrax died last night. Let's do the math. The visitor was the one and only singersigner.

Unless there are some shenanigans in the works, I think the lynch is clear.

I want SS to claim next.

I have not read the thread but I nearly shat myself when I saw this. Counter claim, I'm a town watcher.

First night: CC didn't send in her action
Second Night: I watched Nacho, no result
Third Night: I tried to watch Reckamonic but my action failed,

currently reading through rest of the thread to see if I understand everything right.

[Lateralus22]

Thor

[Lateralus22]

Why the hell was everyone thinking I was stalling? >.> It's only been one day and I was out of town the whole time.

[Lateralus22]

I didn't bread crumb, there wasn't any reason other than I didn't go out of my way to do so.

[Lateralus22]

because he was my trying town read and I thought he would die.

[Lateralus22]

"strongest" dunno why I typed trying

[Lateralus22]

Vote: Seraphim

There can't be two watchers right? So he has to be lying.

[Lateralus22]

Wait, Nacho just read this section. So basically if Sera is town Nacho can't be scum otherwise he would quick hammer for the win.

Preview Edit: wait what?

[Lateralus22]

K same deal with pr, if Sera is town pr is not scum.

[Lateralus22]

unvote

why?

[Lateralus22]

LEAVE ME ALONE IM SO CONFUSED. NOW SOMEONE TELL IF THERES BEEN DUPLICATES OF THE SAME ROLES IN MINI NORMALS BEFORE.

[Lateralus22]

>.< LEAVE ME ALONE

[Lateralus22]

you're both supposed to be town though >.<

Reck's gotta be town cuz it's MO to bus and he generally makes good points and Nacho is town for good scum hunting too. I don't like singer but she can't be scum, come to think of it why the hell would singer scum even send in a nk or kill IAU when he thought she was town AND was attacking Sera.

[Lateralus22]

I know it's WIFOM but come on, occams razor. pr's claim make sense due to 1 protection role being the largest possibility.

[Lateralus22]

no hammer

[Lateralus22]

k, im town plus nacho scum would have hammered when he got the chance if sera was town so sera's confirmed scum then. I wanna hammer now.

Preview Edit: Yeah, Thor could be scum.

[Lateralus22]

why would Nacho bus now?

[Lateralus22]

eh?

pr didn't hammer cuz he's town no?

[Lateralus22]

Lat/Sera both claimed watchers

Nacho/Pr didn't hammer Sera so if Sera is town then they can not be scum. Sera is scum because Lat is town.

[Lateralus22]

Vote: Sera

Yeah

[Lateralus22]

I was town. Is this game still going on?

[Lateralus22]

WTF

[Lateralus22]

SO ITS A TWO MAN SCUM TEAM? WHY THE FUCK DID YOU PUT TWO WATCHERS IN THIS GAME DEMON.

[Lateralus22]

i dont even know anymore

[Lateralus22]

eh no. im a town watcher.

[Lateralus22]

quick lynch thor tomorrow plz. town win 2011

[Lateralus22]

one of the best, still in comparison to a c++ game I played, i think we should just turn this into fates mafia for the next two scum lynches then everything is awsome

[Lateralus22]

guys. anyone else think sera and thor are a two man show?

Preview Edit: what are you gonna do pr?

[Lateralus22]

k. now why the hell do we have so many vanillas?

Preview Edit: Eh what?

[Lateralus22]

jail keep thor tonight btw, if you dont we lynch you maybe

[Lateralus22]

I barely have any idea how the fuck we won this, but replacing in during near death situations is always fun as town

Most of my reads were actually pretty effed up, but hey. Thanks a whole lot for modding DH.

SCUM QT PLEASE.

[Lateralus22]

...I didn't even think of watching power, actually that would have been much more optimal play >.<

[Lateralus22]

LAT! I'm really sorry you got all jumbled up in my mess with CarrotCake. I swear I thought he was just misrepping me left and right. I think the three of us fell victim to tunnelvision because "they don't agree with us...they MUST be scum!"

In any case, lesson learned. I'll try to avoid that as much as possible from now on.

Tis not a problem, I actually made a note for you about the whole misrepping thing in the Dead QT, that was partly why I was suspected you earlier.

I think Reck played very well, I had him as obvious town and really the only slip he made was forgetting he suspected powerrox.

Also Lat, it was a little sub-optimal for PR to not have jailblocked you, but in the end it worked out, because we still essentially had two "confirmed" townies.

Yeah, I see that now. I dunno what I was thinking, I was more more focused on trying to lock down and just JK the scum as opposed to guessing who'd kill.

Btw I feel like posting the dead QT, any objections?

[Lateralus22]

LAT! I'm really sorry you got all jumbled up in my mess with CarrotCake. I swear I thought he was just misrepping me left and right. I think the three of us fell victim to tunnelvision because "they don't agree with us...they MUST be scum!"

In any case, lesson learned. I'll try to avoid that as much as possible from now on.

Tis not a problem, I actually made a note for you about the whole misrepping thing in the Dead QT, that was partly why I was suspected you earlier.

I think Reck played very well, I had him as obvious town and really the only slip he made was forgetting he suspected powerrox.

Also Lat, it was a little sub-optimal for PR to not have jailblocked you, but in the end it worked out, because we still essentially had two "confirmed" townies.

Yeah, I see that now. I dunno what I was thinking, I was more more focused on trying to lock down and just JK the scum as opposed to guessing who'd kill.

Btw I feel like posting the dead QT, any objections?

Edit: Tags, also Sera could you post the scum QT?

[Lateralus22]

I feel like the town win is mostly credited towards the confusion during lylo and Sera's claim, the threat of power role organization towards confirmed town/scum nicely tied things up and win via PoE.

[Lateralus22]

THANK YOU ^_^

[Lateralus22]

Yeah but you see. I didn't actually remember anything you did and the whole drunk posting lylo turbo post session really convinced for me a bit >.<

[Lateralus22]

pssh waiting in a timely fashion for qt's is anti-town =p

[Lateralus22]

Why'd Sera claim Watcher when he KNEW he would be counter claimed as opposed to something like say a cop or the cooler gun smith?

[Lateralus22]

A tracker claim would have made a world of difference, what was with the whole discussion about counter claiming power roles?

[Lateralus22]

shhhhhhhh

[Lateralus22]

For the town the fact we actually had the roles placed much more importance than the actions we used.

[Lateralus22]

tbh I don't think you tunneled too much this time around

note about the Gud claim, I honestly don't see a problem with it.

Here's the thing, claim VT you die, nothing out of the ordinary happens. Claim pr role... well you run the risk of outing of the real pr and cause a big mess.

But Sk? You confuse the hell out of everyone giving some decent analysis to look for PLUS you run no risk of outing a power roles via this method. Sounds good to me.