Mini 1042 - Skillville - GAME OVER!

[Untrod Tripod]

comfirm

[Untrod Tripod]

so...we meet again...

vote Espeonage

[Untrod Tripod]

Wagons are good and all when there is a chance for someone to react. Wagons that build up quickly to L-1 serve no purpose as a. someone will undoubtedly unvote and remove pressure and b. there usually is not enough time for the person to react. I find people are more honest in their reactions to a slow building wagon rather than an L-1 and forms in 5 posts. So rather than be close to an accidental/scummy hammer. Clearly we are both looking for reactions.

QFT

Untrod, you have something to say? You've been in and out of Little Italy all day today and hadn't said a word since your first post.

You're visiting Little Italy again...

this game has been moving kinda fast...if you hadn't noticed... Every time I come back to respond to something I read earlier, there are four more walls of text. That being said, your play is twitching my scumdar, DH. I'm suspicious of your willingness to jump on/create bandwagons and by your rapidly switching votes around on page two.

It's usually the first one that cracks and leaves the wagon that looks the best. What better way to gain town points than to do that?

Asking for an explanation doesn't sit right with me either.

Yes, everyone knows that the person who wants the most said about what happens in the game is the scum. The only person who should be averse to explanation is the person whose motivations are not those that benefit the town. Saying that you don't like someone “asking for an explanation” is anti-town, imo.

@Soc: Except for the fact that I don't really take stuff at face value. That's how you scumhunt effectively. I also don't remember Scott disagreeing with me on the fact that I thought he was looking for a reaction. As far as me "forgetting" that Scott could be scum, I haven't forgotten, but I had a good inkling on what he was trying to do, and trying to hunt for info like that plays off as purely town to me. Scott is town to me at the moment, but he could do something that I don't like. -You-'re forgetting that you can have reads instead of inside knowledge.

@Aldusk: The beauty of my vote without a reason (Soc, you might want to read this part, too) is to see what he would do. Of course I know both town and scum can do that, but it's how they react afterwards that really test their alignment. Zach soft-asking for a reason on why I'm voting for him shows off a great paranoia at that stage of the game and rubs off as scummy to me. Asking for explanations are fine and all, but it all depends on the context, and I think you know that and forgot the context part of it.

I don't think votes without a reason are ever good. I'm the kind of player who thinks that some kind of explanation is always good. It doesn't have to be honest, but I really don't like just smacking a couple votes around without any kind of decent explanation why. If you don't give an explanation, then the town doesn't have any way to judge your actions later in the game and it just looks like you want to be able to vote without recourse or review. Sorry, that's not how the game works. Also, I don't think you should be telling us “how you scumhunt effectively”. Trying to look the expert is smarmy and a good scum tactic to look “too valuable to lynch”, which is the other reason why I really dislike the “I have my secret reasons!” vote.

I'm also really bugged by posts 80, 94 and 97. Quoting a really long post just so you can give a one sentence response, or worse yet, only bold some things in the post is NOT productive contribution. It's the appearance of activity.

[Untrod Tripod]

Wow. Just. Wow. I don't even know where to begin with your last post. I'll attempt, though.

Ah, so here we go. Glad you could join us. Also, this is a pretty apparent parroting of vollkan's view of me switching votes, -however-, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that you didn't read what he wrote. It's fine and all when you agree with someone (not everyone can be original), but you're molding this point after what he said.

Ok, this is really obnoxious. "glad you could join us"? I posted on Wednesday, there were, oh, 60 posts on Thursday, and I posted on Friday. This does NOT qualify as inactivity. I dislike this because you had to make a smartass remark about how I wasn't posting in an attempt to color me as a lurker. Did it not occur to you that maybe I didn't have anything meaningful to add, I was busy and only checking the forum from my phone between classes, couldn't keep up with the amount of activity with the amount of time I had to post etc? Admittedly, I could have just quoted volkan's comment on that with a QFT, but...I felt I should say it. I dunno why, I just did. I also find "not everyone can be original" to be exceptionally obnoxious as well. You're saying that, based on a RV and one post, I'm unoriginal and can't be buggered to participate .So far you have two unqualified and unnecessary personal attacks on me for....no reason. Fantastic.

]Like I said before, look at the context. Al's wagon was RVS, my vote was without a reason (I wanted it to be assumed that it was RVS, and it wasn't; Zach took it too seriously to my liking). I know that RVS ends at different times for everyone, but at that point, there clearly really wasn't any solid information to be that serious over a single vote. Hence my scum read on Zach.

Fine. I still don't like you vote-hopping.

I don't think votes without a reason are ever good. I'm the kind of player who thinks that some kind of explanation is always good. It doesn't have to be honest

I have to stop you here.

Wouldn't not being honest (a.k.a lying) be a TERRIBLE thing for town to do? Vague reasons are fine for a scumfishing townie; lying is just either a ballsy gambit or...well, you know: Anti-town. You've heard of lynch all liars before, right?

Ok, I'll give you that I didn't really qualify that one and saying "you should lie" is not a good plan. Allow me to restate: I feel like you should give a reason for your votes. If you don't give one at all it really just allows people to come up with different reasons why you might do it. If you have hidden motivations for your vote, you're a lot more likely to be prodded for information if you don't give any reason at all and then you'll end up saying "oh, I had some secret reasons", which kind of defeats the purpose, don't you think? I'm not saying that you should lie, just that if you have hidden motivations, you shouldn't just vote with no reason because people will call you on it. Also, I'm getting a little more of the feeling that you're trying to color me as stupid by doing the "I have to stop you there" thing, because dude....it's forum mafia. You either can respond after the whole quote or just stick a comment between sentences. "I have to stop you there" serves absolutely no purpose other than a kind of rhetorical device to put you in the power role in this discussion.

I'm only putting out my point of view. By this logic (I'm going to be using this term a lot, it seems...), info hunting and scum hunting by any means necessary is a terrible thing to do, which goes along with my last bolded point criticizing your view...why is lying good, then, if you're against having vague reasons? You're kinda backwards on this subject, and I don't know what to make of it.

I'm not THE expert on Mafia (I know like 2/3 of you have been here for months longer than I have), but I do have a good hold on the game and I believe I'm an ample scumhunter. But it's points like these that make me question how much of an understanding everyone has of this game. OBVIOUSLY not being honest is a bad thing. It's lying. You lynch all liars. That's the way that it goes. You're also being hypocritical on telling me how the game is supposed to be played and criticizing me on being smarmy in the same post.

I don't like hypocrisy....-_-;;

I'm not questioning your ability to play mafia. I'm sure you're fine. My point of view is that information is the most useful thing you can contribute. You are being smarmy, though.

You're not the type of guy that likes short, sweet and to the point responses, but likes reading loads of fluff. Got it.

No.

I have a neutral tell on you, but I feel like you're extremely misguided. Pick things up.

Glad you have a neutral tell. Do you think wanting information is "extremely misguided"? What do you mean by "pick things up"? Do you not think posting once a day is enough?

[Untrod Tripod]

Are you actually implying that a dishonest reason for a vote can be a decent reason for a vote... because so far as I'm concerned a dishonest reason for voting is, well, scummy.

No. Let's say for example, I wanted to vote for DH (I don't), but I was doing so for his reaction, or because I had a secret cop read on him or something. If I just posted "vote DH", then people will say "...why are you voting for DH?". Then I'd have to back it up with something, which kind of defeats the purpose. If I said "vote DH, because I think that x thing that he did is scummy", but my real reason for doing so was because I wanted to see what he said, then I'm not really voting for my real reason, but I should give a decent reason for the vote so that people won't ask for my motivation for it, so that if I have a hidden motivation I can get the reaction I wanted. Does that make more sense?

[Untrod Tripod]

ahem

5. No personal attacks please. Anyone violating this rule will be modkilled.

chill out, guys

So going through the game I noticed something:
with the exception of Yoshi, this game actually has pretty decent participation in terms of post numbers. I want to hear more from Esp. His contributions up to now haven't really been all that useful. Also I detest metagaming.

204 total posts
Alduskkel - 20 posts
DemonHybrid - 65 posts
Espeonage - 19 posts
horrordude - 9 posts
q21 - 14 posts
Reckamonic - 17 posts
ScottBrosius - 7 posts
Skill006 - 7 posts
Socrates - 13 posts
Untrod Tripod - 6 posts
volkan - 10 posts
Yoshi - 1 post
Zachrulez - 19 posts

You may notice that DH posts a lot. I don't know if it means anything, but goddamn.

I find too much confidence in early reads to ring ingenuwine, which is scummy. (This also comes down to gut feel.) Too confident is basically when you talk to someone as if they're confirmed scum. (The behavior's certainly anti-town as it doesn't take all possible motives for actions into account.)

QFT

Him talking has comprised almost all of pages 4 and 5, and you don't have any info on him? So, you completely tunneled me without reading the whole thread, is what you're saying.

I really don't appreciate this comment. You're half of the argument, and as you said, it provided info. Even if the amount of the game you're it "comprimised" was correct (it's not), I would still wonder what you meant by "comprimised". To my mind, comprimising the game is when you pull it to a halt by
a. make people wait around for you to post
b. yelling angrily/semicoherently at other players
bb. RESPONDING to angry/semicoherent yelling instead of just ignoring it
c. post boatloads of irrelevant questions
etc.

To my mind, Esp did this a little bit and reckamonic is doing this a lot. DH, I'd say you're helping reck drag the game down by letting him get to you. Seriously, don't feed the trolls. Also, posts 155-159 weren't really necessary information, for example. Nor was the recent talking about Socrates' V/LA. I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't "comprimise" the game.

again, you're bullshitting bout UT. He posted 1 time on page 4 and 3 on page 5. Hardly a meaningful contribution. Also, 60% of his contribution are quote war with you. I usually skip those, they are tedious. As an add-on to that, if you can't make a concise post I WILL skip your next retort ( or dump it in my hydra's lap)

I'm not really interested in the trolling, but I just want to say that I agree with DH that our back-and-forth wasn't useless to the game (and I find it curious that DH said that after saying

I feel like I've posted little enough that I should post my reads, because you can kind of get a sense of how everyone feels about the other players from their posts but I haven't said:
Alduskkel - null
DemonHybrid - slight lean town
Espeonage - slight leanin scum
horrordude - null
q21 - null
Reckamonic - null (only because I feel like he's trolling for reads)
ScottBrosius - slight lean scum
Skill006 - slight lean mod
Socrates - null
volkan - slight lean town
Yoshi - where the hell is Yoshi?
Zachrulez - null

so basically I don't really have any strong reads. I'd like to hear some actual content from Esp.

I have to stop making the post now (have to go work), but I have more to say later tonight

[Untrod Tripod]

I would still wonder what you meant by "comprimised".

Him talking has comp

ris

ed almost all of pages 4 and 5, and you don't have any info on him? So, you completely tunneled me without reading the whole thread, is what you're saying.

Misunderstanding alert!

oh dear god! sorry about that! the stuff I said still applies though to Esp and reck being jerks.

[Untrod Tripod]

@volkan
for Esp, I find him slightly scummy because of his focus on meta and his rationale for DH being scum being "tone". In my experience, voting based on a player's tone is opportunistic. Also his posting style seems to mainly be reactive to little things that other people have said rather than analyzing the play of others. It seems like he's trying to look "active" without actually saying much. Plus he admitted to skimming. Wat.

for Scott, my read on him is mainly based on his extremely opportunistic vote on Socrates. Upon reread, his vote on Socrates after that wagon got derailed saying only "woohoo, real vote time!" looks pretty bad to me. It's only a slight lean though and it's mainly based on him doing that. He hasn't done much else, so I can't really say much else about what I think of him until he posts moar.

@HorrorDude
I don't care about whatever reck is trying to do with his playstyle. Why do you?
I think trolling for reads is detrimental to the game. If I can stop the village idiot from taking focus off of the game, I'll do it.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT, if he's trolling for a reason (IE reaction/read fishing), let him. But DON'T announce it so everyone can see... it kinda defeats the purpose of fishing, doesn't it?

@HorrorDude
I don't care about whatever reck is trying to do with his playstyle. Why do you?
I think trolling for reads is detrimental to the game. If I can stop the village idiot from taking focus off of the game, I'll do it.

Is there a part of this you don't understand?

[Untrod Tripod]

Any specific example/s?

If you read his ISO, I'd say that posts 15-19 are a good example. I don't think reposting them would be worth it, just look at them if you need to. I don't think they helped advance the game or hunt for scum. I don't think that in and of itself means he's scum, but it seems to me that he didn't do a lot of scumhunting or real participation, so it's a kind of stalling imo.

As an occasional skimmer, this isn't a scumtell. It's more a tell or boredom/distractedness. The fact he has now replaced out only, I would argue, further establishes this.

Perhaps I wasn't at all clear about this. I was more confused by his admitting to skimming. I've never seen someone say "yeah, I've been skimming. yep". I consider it more of a WAT tell than a scumtell. Which is why I followed that statement with ". Wat." I imagine that was really unclear. I agree, though, that his replacing out means that he was more just uninvolved in the game than trying to stay in the background

unvote Espeonage

.

You've been around on site since 2003, I see. Have you played many games in that time? The reason I am asking is that I consider attacking "skimming" to be a mild scumtell from experienced players.

I've played, left and come back a number of times under various lusernames since 2003. No I'm not going to elaborate on that point. I wouldn't say that skimming is scummy, I would say that saying "lots of people skim....yeah, I've been skimming" after having being inactive the whole game and then not posting, really, is suspect. However, as we covered above, he replaced out, so that whole bit is kind of rendered null.

For whatever reason it enters my brain as Untrue Tripod when I read it...

lolz? Probably because you want to replace "untrod" with a word you see/read/think a lot more often. It's still kinda funny though. Unless you're trying to subtly color me as a liar, which is a weaksauce strategy, sir .

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm not voting. If I did it wrong or something...

unvote drmyshottyizsik

Sorry, didn't see that unvote. It was like, in the middle of the paragraph XD

[Untrod Tripod]

ok finished reading and I think Vollkan/Zach are the scum team

and your evidence and/or reasoning for that is...

[Untrod Tripod]

honestly? I think our scummiest player atm is SB.

vote ScottBrosius

I don't like his reck vote, I don't like his play at the beginning, I didn't like his vote on Socrates at the beginning of the game, and I don't like his "policy" vote on drshotty. I think he's a better candidate for the lynch than DH. I think DH is playing as overexuberent townie, not a mafioso trying to put himself at the center of the action.

[Untrod Tripod]

Awfully convinient that you didn't point out these earlier. Care to explain why?

ok

ScottBrosius - slight lean scum

Could you please elaborate on your slight scum reads?

[quote="Untrod Tripod in post 250]for Scott, my read on him is mainly based on his extremely opportunistic vote on Socrates. Upon reread, his vote on Socrates after that wagon got derailed saying only "woohoo, real vote time!" looks pretty bad to me. It's only a slight lean though and it's mainly based on him doing that. He hasn't done much else, so I can't really say much else about what I think of him until he posts moar. [/quote]

Rather than explain why, I'll just quote where I said it earlier, someone asked me about it, and I explained.

I already thought he was scummy. I said I thought he was scummy seven or eight pages ago, and then he came in and made a couple of scummy posts and called for a "policy lynch" on Esp/Esp's replacement. I think he's the best lynch at the moment.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm kind of with Al in that I have a stronger lynch candidate (SB), but I am considering getting on the HD wagon. This will require moar thought and analysis of the HD vs Zach argument. More on this later

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm still feelin' the SB lynch

vote SB

but I too should go back and look at Mae. I didn't really see her as scummy, just useless.

[Untrod Tripod]

MAEMUKI WOULD YOU LIKE TO AT LEAST ATTEMPT DEFENDING YOURSELF?

[Untrod Tripod]

No, I just think it's really lame of her to just throw up her hands and give up. I don't think Maemuki is scum (as I said), so I would really hate for us to end up lynching a pro-town slot out of her own stupidity.

Does the content bug you, or the all caps?

and can we replace Maemuki if she's uninterested in playing?

[Untrod Tripod]

You vote me without a reason, yet mention 2 other people you seem to view as scummy.

This is from page 13, he's been saying you're scummy since then.

Unvote
Vote:drshotty

Solves policy, and Esp was scummy anyway.

So, why was Espeonage scummy? He lurked for out of game reasons. And is shotty even scummy to you?

I really haven't seen much scum hunting from you, Scott (except maybe for iso #8). Also, calling people scummy for lurking (i.e. Espeonage) is pretty hypocritical. Have you seen your posts and # of posts?

Confidence is not a scum tell, it just means he is sticking to his guns and not jumping all over the place like oppertunist scum(aka zach)

And how has Zach been opportunistic?

Now this is almost fishing and it kind of makes me mad.

What do you mean by fishing, exactly?

Yes in a RVS supporting it is a great thing. Scum want the RVS to die quickly so no convo's will really start. And if you are so anti-RVS(which you haven't been in other games) why did you RQS? You just sat there and insult him for trying to do something.

You're pretty much taking the opposite stance on theory here vs. Zach. He says that scum want the RVS to be prolonged so that real discussion takes longer to get going. Why is he wrong, and why is that scummy?

There are other problems with your case on Zach that have been noted already. I won't go into them.

I noticed in post 340 that you don't address any of vollkan's points except for the meta one. Why? Digging up those links has got to be harder than responding to his other points.

Vote: Scott Brosius

.

lrn2read

[Untrod Tripod]

I have no reason to doubt your claim, Scott

unvote SB

guess I'll have to ISO shotty

[Untrod Tripod]

God I am so tempted to push for the DrShotty policy lynch.

However, everything he's said just bores me. I really have no idea where to go from here.

[Untrod Tripod]

sigh. And now I'm tempted to vote for shotty just to get the game moving...

[Untrod Tripod]

vote DH

lets get this game moving guys. I'm town

yes, because otherwise you would claim scum? Are you saying you're VT?

also, who asked you to claim?

[Untrod Tripod]

I've reread and here are some general points I've noticed:

DH is, imo, playing fairly pro-town. I know "hiding in plain sight" sounds like a good idea, but I've never seen it done by a mafia player. You post as much as DH does, you're gonna slip up. I just can't see a scum player being as vocal as he is (feel free to point out if this is wrong. I'm not saying it's definite truth, just that I've never seen it) . Rereading vote patterns, Soc and reck have been two players who have had their votes on DH for a large portion of the game. I can see one of them being scum, but definitely not both. Maybe neither. I just think this point bears remembering later in the game when we have more info.

I think shotty is a super easy target. And about this "lie" thing, I've played with plenty of players who make bad claims about their game history. Don't think it's a scumtell, I just think he's forgetful. That being said, shotty is kind of a VI. This is true. However, VI is not an alignment and it's entirely possible he's both scum AND stupid. His [mostly] lack of content, however, is dragging the game down while we debate whether or not he's worth lynching.

Interestingly enough, I think horrordude would have had a scum (probably not both) on his lynch, and Reck, Soc and DH are on it... I'm not saying that reck and Soc are def. scum, but the voting makes a compelling argument.

OT, but Soc how could you have not read my posts? That's a really weird admission.

[Untrod Tripod]

On a non-DMSIS related note, Untrod Tripod's post about us and Socrates strike us as... odd. He brings up the fact that the two (or is it three?) of us have had our votes on DH for a lot of the game... then goes "Eh. Maybe it means nothing. JUST POINTING IT OUT." If you have nothing to say as far as scumtell or towntell or ANYTHING regarding your reads, why just bring it up OUT OF NOWHERE and then not mention it?

It's not a be all end all statement. I reread. I saw that. Saying "hey, I think these votes are a little scummy" is talking about a read. What is the issue with saying "hey, I found something new"? I don't have confirmed reads on anyone, so I can't say definitively that you are scum, I just find the voting records to be evidence of a possible bus.

This is scummy. You're pointing things out, then just hoping someone else will take the bait and run with it. Explain what you find particularly scummy about our vote on DemonHybrid AND Socrates' vote on DemonHybrid. Now.

Obviously you disagree with me on this, but I think DH is pretty obvtown. Therefore I find voting on him to be scummy. Since both you and Soc were on the horrordude wagon, I find it possible that one of you is scum (because it would be HORRIBLE scum play if both of you were). Like I said before, I don't have confirmed reads on anyone, so I can't say that the voting records are anything more than a slight scumtell.

I find your defense to be distressing. What's your argument, since I only pointed it out as minor scumtell, I'm scummy? Would it be better if I said "they both voted for these two! One of them is scum! Nay, both are scum! It's so obvious!" I noticed it, so I pointed it out.

[Untrod Tripod]

And I'm really starting to not like your "points" system, voll. Zach is right in the way that it allows you to non-commit to suspicions and votes.
You're certainly not the most town in the game. Zach is.

what exactly about vollkan's careful analysis is bad? He writes down all of his reads and states categorically whether or not they're scummy. IMO his play is super transparent. Transparency is pro-town, and we can hold him to any contradictions he makes because he assigns points to how scummy he thinks other people are.

[Untrod Tripod]

Masons are a group, usually all on the Pro-Town side, that usually have some information about each others alignement. They can communicate with each other at Night, if they choose, but otherwise usually have no special abilities. In one variation of the Mason role, the Masons cannot reveal that they are Masons to the town through roleclaiming. Instead, they must find other ways to defend each other.

Mafia Masons

Sometimes, one member of the masonry group is a scum mason, a person in the masonry who is secretly part of the mafia or some other scum group. This occasionally happens in games where the moderater does not specifically tell all masons that they are all town. (See: unconfirmed masons, sometimes called "Neighbors")
Mafia masons are not a very common role, but just the possibility that one might exist often leads to paranoia and distrust within the mason group.

if you're going to debate theory, at least look into it first. Scott said he could confirm his partner's alignment. Why is this so hard for you?

not gonna lie, you're starting to look less like stupid town and more like stupid scum to me.

[Untrod Tripod]

the SB/Mae mason thing really seals it for me. Town-shotty would want to wait to see how they play more. Scum shotty would want to get one of 'em lynched because "she could still be scum!" This is just getting ridiculous and you are pulling the game down to your level.

vote drmyshottyizsik

[Untrod Tripod]

shotty, did you know that the number of exclamation points you use has an inverse relationship to anyone taking your point of view seriously?

@al, No. No.

[Untrod Tripod]

you know, shotty, on the subject of you making tons of mistakes:

in one of my first games (back in 03), I replaced into a mafia slot. Due to my predecessor acting scummy, some people had a case on me. I panicked and claimed SK. Everyone said "...um...k let's lynch you then..." and I was super confused. Then I realized SK was bad and said "oh wait I meant vig". Also I did a lot of rattling the bars and overuse of "but you're making a mistaaaaaaaake" and exclamation points. Obviously I got lynched.

I guess my ultimate point is that I don't want you around if we get to a point where your vote actually matters, because you clearly have a very unclear idea of how mafia actually works. And that's assuming you're town! Either your win condition goes against town, or you're going to be a detriment to the town. I don't like those options.

[Untrod Tripod]

No I did not, the last 5 pages have had like nothing about me being scummy!!!
Just you guys talking about how dumb i am

how about you "tear down" the point that you would be a liability in a late-game situation.

[Untrod Tripod]

people have let you stick around for a Lylo? 0_o

the only thing I've heard about your Lylo record is you self-hammering as town...

[Untrod Tripod]

OMFG!!!!!! That was once!!!!
Other than that I've won three times and lost once. (unofficial)

provide links. just because you won doesn't mean you played well.

[Untrod Tripod]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=900
Lylo starts here^^^ I won btw

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=550
I won again^^

ok the other games I'm in that are in lylo are on going. unless i missed a game that finished.

all these prove is that you play like an idiot as scum. you didn't win those games, you just managed not to lose.

piss poor meta case, dude. Also, you can't count Lylo victories that HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET to your total. Jesus tapdancing christ.

[Untrod Tripod]

@ Zach- so you are saying that play style can't make you scummy?
Well with the same logic now there is nothing against me

other than that your meta case in your Lylo games you provided is that you're playing the exact same way now (right down to all the extra !!! when someone calls you out on it).

@UT- I play well in lylo period, and I won

no, you don't. you play Lylo the exact same way you're playing right now. Flailing around and drawing attention to yourself. If you think making every other player go "...goddammit shotty" every time you post is playing well, you're an idiot.

You can play well and lose. You can also play badly and win. End of fucking story. Were I you, I would not brag about the games you linked.

[Untrod Tripod]

shotty, I'm getting very tired of reading your repeated requests of "make a case against me". There is no way I'm not the only one.

but I'm feeling generous, I'll help you out. I think part of the problem is that you must be a very visual learner, because you're having a lot of difficulty READING the thread and COMPREHENDING what has been said. here's what I think your thought process is:

you read

you post


this is of course a problem, because most of the time you end up talking out of your ass and appealing to emotion. Also claiming things that aren't true. Also saying no one has made a case against you when 4 or 5 of us already have. I'm going to make you a visual guide for how to play more effectively

read

think

have a Dr Pepper

begin thinking about making your next post by thinking through the points you want to make

reread the posts of others to see what other people have had to say on the matter

write out your post

reread your post to make sure you say everything you want to

take out all of the things that make you sound like an idiot

POST THAT SHIT




Seriously. You need to start making your points more effectively or you're going to be having this argument every goddamn game.

[Untrod Tripod]

EBWOP: there's no way I'm the only one

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok, shotty. I am going to make one final post about you. From here on out I am going to ignore you unless it becomes absolutely necessary that I don't.

No one here (ok, except maybe for Zach) had it out for you from the beginning. We are irritated by your logic-less, erratic play. We are irritated that you keep making statements that are factually incorrect. We are sick of having to correct you on how mafia works. However, no one has been a dick to you before the last couple of pages. In fact, I'm pretty sure we've been fairly polite to you mostly up to the last page or so. My picture post may have been a bit glib, but I'm not trying to just insult you. I was trying to HELP you. My biggest problem with you in this game is simply the fact that you haven't been and seem unwilling to read the game. I don't think you would be drawn to mafia if you weren't at least a reasonably bright guy, so I don't think the issue is that you aren't smart enough to get this stuff.

main points against you

- yes, you have been acting scummy. You have so far been hiding behind the "VI" label as an excuse for behavior that, frankly, would get anyone else in this game lynched immediately. Even reck was acting more sensible than you are. This pisses me right the fuck off. You need to play the game. This game does not revolve around you. This is something that most of us do in our off-hours for recreation and when we have someone like you yelling and waving their arms, it really makes us not want to bother with it at all. This is a huge problem.

- not DESPITE the "meta" you posted, but BECAUSE of it, I do not want you around in the late game. You mainly make terrible arguments and say "GUYS, TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO BE SAYING. GUYS. GUYS. GUYS. WHY AREN'T YOU TELLING ME THINGS?! I'M TOWN GUYS! I'M TOWN! WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR ME! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE VOTING FOR ME! RESTATE WHY YOU'RE VOTING FOR ME!" This is not helpful or convincing.

- you are making the game revolve around you being bad at mafia instead of scumhunting

- you insist that people tell you exactly what their cases are and repost their arguments. Have you. ever. seen. anyone. do. that? This game is about reading, analysis, rhetoric and logic. You need to read through the game, isolate arguments, analyse them, respond to them. No one is going to do your work for you.

- believe it or not "I am town" is a lot more believable than "GUYS, I AM TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!" You are acting like a raving lunatic.

This all being said, this game is over for you. No one here will take you seriously in this game again (and yeah, some of us were trying to before the last 20 or so posts). You can only hope to improve your play in other games. My advice: quit your bitching. Asking the mod to modkill/replace DH is a seriously low move and makes you look terrible. You look like a punk, and you need to accept the lynch or replace out.

_________________________________________________________________________

Ok, that all being said, let's try to make the best of this situation and get some analysis out of it.

To everyone:
Why can we afford to keep shotty around? Why can't we?
why are you/are you not voting for shotty?

to volkan:
at what point does a VI's play go from being stupid to being scummy?

to reck:
what do you think about all this?

[Untrod Tripod]

Are you really going to think so narrowly to accept vollkan as obvtown and a stupid lynch just because he posts careful analysis? How long have you guys been playing, anyway? I've been playing since May and I already know that that's a dumb decision.

IMO, volkan would be a fairly easy lynch as a scum player simply because of the volume and breadth of his analysis. If he's still around at the endgame, his positions on dead players throughout the game should make his alignment fairly obvious. I'm inclined to keep him around for that reason alone.

why are you concerned about his alignment?

[Untrod Tripod]

oh, yes. I suppose what I said was MARVELOUSLY unclear.

the whole "my main points against you" were not intended to be why I thought he was scummy, they were why I don't like HIS PLAY. I think his misrepping, convenient memory lapses, ignoring cases, refusing to read the game, and his own atrocious analysis are scummy. The stuff I wrote was a competency thing, as you correctly picked up on. Post #693 was intedned as a "this is why you're pissing us off" thing, not a "this is why you're scummy" thing.

[Untrod Tripod]

sigh

are we continuing with the day, mod?

[Untrod Tripod]

well back to my original suspicions of soc and reck. First of all, I think "I told you so" is to be expected from reck, regardless of alignment. However...

I find it unlikely that town-reck would be defending shotty so hard. But, I don't have any meta on town-Reck so I'm not positive if that's how he'd act. If you weren't positive that a player as scummy yet VI as shotty was town, defending them is a bad plan. However, if you *know* their alignment...easy ticket to townpoints. That's not a real strong scumtell, though, since I don't know how reck would act. He seems to be prone to dramatic yelling. Just saying. I find it believable that town-reck would have been defending shotty, but I find it more believable that scum-reck would.

Soc's attitude towards shotty is more of a "oh for fuck's sake..." thing, which gives him more wiggle room come shotty's eventual lynch (come on, it was gonna happen sometime). I find it more likely that scum-Soc would act that way than town-Soc. And since
a. he's lurking pretty hard and
b. he's my prime scumspect at the moment, I'm gonna go with a Soc vote

vote Socrates

[Untrod Tripod]

Can I just point out how absurd it is that Socrates and us are the prime suspects for NOT TRYING TO LYNCH A VI, instead of the people who were vehemently pushing for an easy mislynch?

no, but calling his scumtells (lying about his meta, misrepping, flailing like an imbecile when pushed) nulltells is a problem. There was absolutely NO way for you or Soc to KNOW he was town unless you're scum. Calling his behavior obvtown (I know he flipped town, but he sure wasn't acting like he would) is suspicious.

[Untrod Tripod]

Allow me to trace your line of thought on the shotty lynch, Al

Sorry I only remembered one game with Scott. And I guess I was scum. But like I said I didn't really remember them. Also I said I think not I was. I didn't lie I just didn't take the time to go back and defend my past meta.

You said you were "pretty sure." That does not imply that you "don't really remember them." Also where did you say the word "think" in that context? Also you did lie. You stated something that was false - i.e., a lie.

Deadline is absurdly short and so

Vote: drmyshottyizsik

.

I think shotty is scum. Let's vote for him.

To everyone:
Why can we afford to keep shotty around? Why can't we?
why are you/are you not voting for shotty?

1. Well, I guess we can afford to keep him around. He isn't an auto-lose for us if he's Town. Thing is, I don't think he's Town though.
2. Why am I voting shotty? Well, pretty much because of what people like Zach and DemonHybrid have said. He's lied about meta, he's inconsistent with his reads, and he tried to cast suspicion on masons. There's the thing vollkan gave him a +3 for, and there's the fact that one moment he explains his case on Zach and then the next he says it's gut and he can't explain it.

We should lynch shotty.

Calling people scum for having correct reads is just bad play. Obviously the people who thought DMSIS were better players in this case, and it certainly doesn't mean that they must have had some inside information.

(snip)

I'm noticing a distinct lack of analysis of players who

were

pushing for DMSIS's mislynch by DH and UT. Selective targeting, much?

Well obviously everyone who said he was town is a better player. Also the people who were pushing the wagon should be investigated. But not me. I'm innocent



You were pushing for it too. Also, the fact that he flipped town doesn't mean he wasn't playing like absolute scum. This looks like a subtle attempt to distance yourself from the wagon while inching towards the DH one. Just IMO, Shotty was playing SO BADLY and SO ANTI TOWN that calling him obvtown seems like a kind of clairvoyance. Or inside knowledge.

[Untrod Tripod]

oh herro NS

thanks for replacing

[Untrod Tripod]

I've had a town read on Reckamonic for a while

Why?

Anyway, I'D LIKE TO DRAW EVERYONE'S ATTENTION BACK TO THIS.

Where Untrod makes a horrible accusation about Ald trying to distance himself from the Shotty wagon, even though no such thing was actually happening.

Why is it horrible? DH had some suspicion on him, and it's pretty easy to flip the wagon back onto the person who was pushing it when someone flips town. Just because Ald said "I guess we should look at me too" doesn't mean he isn't trying to flip suspicion onto DH and me.

Further fueling my suspicion is that Untrod has had NOTHING to say about this, despite the fact that he's been on site and posting elsewhere. Hoping it gets buried under pages of Reck and DH fighting?

No. Not posting doesn't mean I'm hoping it gets buried, it just means I'm not posting in this game. Hoping it would get buried would be retarded.

We would put good money on the final scums being somewhere within DH, UT, and Socrates.

How interesting. Your top suspects are... the guy you've been yelling at all game, the guy who said you were likely scum, and the guy I said was likely scum if you weren't.

Masons clear SB & Maemuki.
We have town reads on vollkan, Zach, and to a lesser extent Alduskkel.
PoE means the final two scum have to be within DH/UT/Socrates.

No it doesn't. Admittedly it would be a ballsy and stupid move for scum to claim masons, but we're just taking their word for it atm.
I can agree on vollkan
yeah, unless the final two scum are between you/DH/Soc/Zach/Al. that's assuming this was a 3 member scum team. could just be a 2 member deal.

[Untrod Tripod]

Masons clear SB & Maemuki.

No it doesn't.

Have to agree with UT.

What the hell is it about them claiming masons "clears" them?

Let me use the same logic:

I'm town.

Oh hey! I'm cleared! Because I said that I'm town!

Seriously, it's the SAME LOGIC.

They may VERY WELL be two scum taking the ballsy risk of claiming masons. They may not. Good play suggests that we don't pursue it for right now until more about this game is revealed.

Yeah, for the time being we should assume they're not lying. I'd be an ok gambit since we seem to not have any killing roles other than the mafia and claiming masons is pretty safe because if we have a cop role there are more important people to look into. But just to be clear, I'm not saying they're scum, I'm just saying they're not 100% confirmed, as Reck asserted.

[Untrod Tripod]

if we have a cop role

Before anyone points it out, yeah I know our cop is dead. I had forgotten our cop was dead when I wrote that. Dumb me is dumb.

We would put good money on the final scums being somewhere within DH, UT, and Socrates.

How interesting. Your top suspects are... the guy you've been yelling at all game, the guy who said you were likely scum, and the guy I said was likely scum if you weren't.

This is just slanderous. Instead of suggesting that Reckamonic is scummy for thinking those people are scum, why don't you examine his reasons better and tear them down, and explain why he is not just wrong but also scummy? Instead you are just lobbing mud at him.

How is that slanderous? Are you implying that my interpretations of his selected scumchoices are inaccurate? If not, then I'm not sure how that's slanderous at all.

Disputing the Mason claim is dumb dumb dumb. I really don't see the Masons both making it out the next Night, because frankly it's obvious that Masons in an endgame are deadly to Mafia. I guess Mafia could think the town would be idiotic and lynch their own Masons, but I highly doubt it.

Yeah, for the time being we should assume they're not lying.

I said the claim doesn't 100% clear them, not that I think they're scum. I'm not "disputing the mason claim", I'm saying they're 95% cleared instead of 100% cleared.

First part: all of that is IIoA, none of that attempts to actually draw any reads or make any connections. It's just a half-assed attempt to paint us in a scummy light.

Fair, but I wanted to see how you'd react to it. Not surprisingly, you just yelled at me instead of defending yourself. I am wondering why you think Soc is possible scum now. Is it because of the lurking? You didn't mention him being scum before and when I said you two could possibly be scum, you didn't mention your read on him at all. In fact, you defended him (in a kind of oblique way) by demanding to know why I thought his vote was scummy. That was in your ISO 37 and in your ISO 39 you put Soc on the scummy side of your reads. What changed? Then in your ISO 43 you defend Soc (again, in kind of an oblique way). If you thought he was scum, why are you making a point to try to include him in the defense? Then in ISO 45 you say that you could see a DH/Soc scumteam, so you're back to saying he's scummy. Oh, and incidentally you didn't put anything on the line "defending" shotty. You were mostly just calling everyone else stupid for thinking he could possibly be scum AND a VI.

My point is that I found it curious that Soc is now obvscum (of course, all scum seems to be obvscum to you...) when from my perspective it looked like until recently you'd been kind of defending him.

Second part: obviously our whole post is speaking

from our point of view

, so the last statement you made was just stupid and irrelevant. Also, you should probably explain why the hell there would be a two-man scumteam in a 12-person setup...unless you know there's a serial killer or something.

Yeah, and I was disagreeing with your reads. Is it always "stupid and irrelevant" when someone disagrees with you? It wasn't irrelevant. Stupid? Debatable.

Also, yep, 12-person setups almost always have 3 mafia. D'oh. I really should do better setup research before trying to argue about it.

[Untrod Tripod]

We still need more input from the replacements.

I'm not interested in lynching the claimed masons today, period.

I don't recall anyone saying "let's lynch the claimed masons".

[Untrod Tripod]

We still need more input from the replacements.

I'm not interested in lynching the claimed masons today, period.

I don't recall anyone saying "let's lynch the claimed masons".

But there has been some sentiment against them stated.

"You can't assume that anyone who hasn't been investigated is 100% confirmed" is not the same as "let's lynch them because they are obviscum". Just saying. You're misrepping

[Untrod Tripod]

Masons clear [nik] & [NS]

Nobody Special playing lazy like he is further worries us. He's playing like he's confirmed town and doesn't have a care in the world, when in fact, he's in no way, shape, or form confirmed.

So, I'm scum when I point this out earlier, but now it's just something you and Zach agree with me on?

[Untrod Tripod]

NS:
are you saying you want to get lynched?
Why you over Nik?
Why not try to stay alive?
Who are your scum reads?

[Untrod Tripod]

VOTE: Nobody Special
let's either confirm Nik or win the game

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm kind of suspicious of hito. He only has ISO'd shotty (lolwut), DH (town, imo) Zach (popular consensus as town) and Aldusskel. I think it would have been far more useful for him to have ISO'd Reck (scum, imo) or me.

I said a long time ago that I believe that either Reck or Soc was scum, and hito ignoring Reck during is ISO analyses is suspect to me.

vote hito

[Untrod Tripod]

WHOOPS DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS. HE DID ISO RECK. DELETE FUCKING EVERYTHING

UNVOTE HITO

[Untrod Tripod]

it was an example of horrible, horrible reading skills combined with his organization of the ISOs being confusing to me. having read it *much* more closely, his ISOs were (at the time), Al (so...DH v2.0), DH v1.0, horror, shotty, reck

However, having reread his Reck ISO, I'm underwhelmed by it. Considering that Reck has been a player who has had more than a few very strong opinions, I'm a little surprised by hito having so little to say about him. It feels less like scumhunting than his other ISOs of living players. he and reck are still my scumpicks.

vote hito

also, for the record I could have deleted my first post, but because I'm not a cheating bastard I didn't.

[Untrod Tripod]

So...

UT, your Day 1 arguments comprised of a bunch of null reads, a somewhat friendly back and forth with horrordude and no vote. This worries me.

If by "friendly back and forth with horrordude" you mean "a friendly back and forth with DH v1.0", then sure. Also, I almost never form strong opinions on a cold D1 start. That's just how I roll, dawg.

Your Day 2 argument comprised of lynching shotty and going after him the same way DH 1.0 did, which in retrospect, was terrible and something that DH 1.0 shouldn't have done (note to self). After he was modkilled, you kinda left the scene for a while after making a case against Soc. This worries me.

It's really easy to say "oh man, I totally wouldn't be on that mislynch now". Of course you wouldn't, you know know he's town now. At the time, I think we had decent reason to suspect shotty of being scum and I stand by that. We were wrong, of course, but that doesn't mean it was entirely faulty reasoning. As I said at the time, as scum it's really easy to earn townie brownies by standing off to the side and yelling that you think an impending mislynch is stupid. It's one of the reasons Reck is one of my scum reads and it makes your change of heart interesting.

On the subject of DH v1.0's lynch: I wasn't interested in lynching you. You were one of my town reads. I was interested in lynching Reck/hito. I'm not anymore though (see the bottom of this post).

Day 3, you lynched the mason. Some questions asked, but towards the mason. This worries me.

Yes, I did. It doesn't take one person to lynch someone, though. However, we now have a confirmed townie. That was my purpose in voting for NS (as I stated in my vote post). The town didn't really have any direction and we had reached a point where we needed to do something about the claimed masons because they were acting kind of scummy. I'm not the only person who felt this way.

Is your point here that my interest in confirming a town player is...anti-town?

Day 4, a horrendous post that had no cohesion with this game, not recognizing that I replaced Alduskkel and saying you "suspected" Hito for something that didn't exist in the first place. This worries me.

I'm not sure how you got me not knowing that you replaced Al out of my post. At the time of the ISO, you hadn't replaced in. The ISO was on Al. So I said Al. I was just looking at his ISO posts and I wrote down the people he examined. Are you saying that because I said "DH" and "Al", that means I didn't know that you had replaced in? You know that's a pretty wide leap, right? On the plus side, there's an entire album about that part of your "worries" about me.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have been saying for the past 3 game days that I find the Hito/Soc slot suspicious. This really should not be news to you. However, I've changed my mind. Reck and hito's presence on the DH v1.0 and the NS lynchwagons rules out them both being scum. Also, looking through the lynchcounts, I notice that you'll never find Al and Reck, or Al and Soc/hito on the same wagon. Hmm... considering that Al had been drifting through the game without providing much, I don't think we can make a hard judgement about DHv2.0's alignment yet.

However, I think that it's either/or with hito and Reck now. I still find hito the more suspect of the two, so my vote will stay there.

[Untrod Tripod]

Unvote:

Don't like Untrod's quick vote at all.

The last hito vote was on Thursday. The last votecount was on Friday. I've been saying for most of the game that his slot is scummy. Quick isn't exactly the right word to describe my vote.

[Untrod Tripod]

If by "friendly back and forth with horrordude" you mean "a friendly back and forth with DH v1.0", then sure. Also, I almost never form strong opinions on a cold D1 start. That's just how I roll, dawg.

Your interactions with horrordude were minimal. Also, it's cool that you don't form strong opinions, but you only voted Espeonage, and only during RVS (which you took off later). I mean...AT LEAST a vote would have been nice.

Ok...First you say I had a "friendly back and forth" with horrordude, and now you say my interactions with him were minimal. Were you just hoping I wouldn't point that out?

It's really easy to say "oh man, I totally wouldn't be on that mislynch now". Of course you wouldn't, you know know he's town now. At the time, I think we had decent reason to suspect shotty of being scum and I stand by that. We were wrong, of course, but that doesn't mean it was entirely faulty reasoning. As I said at the time, as scum it's really easy to earn townie brownies by standing off to the side and yelling that you think an impending mislynch is stupid. It's one of the reasons Reck is one of my scum reads and it makes your change of heart interesting.

Actually, the way we went about it was horrible. Yes, it made sense at the time, but there's no arguing that DH 1.0 lead the lynch, followed by you. It would have been easy for anyone to follow through. It was a mistake that I (DH 1.0) made without a full understanding of the VI mentality.

DH 1.0 originally thought that those opposed to his lynch would be the scummier ones, but now the connections are starting to make things a bit more concrete with shotty's wagon.

You're answering a question I didn't ask. Or responding to something I didn't say. Or something. At no point did I say I wasn't on the shottytrain with you. I said I stand by that wagon having decent reasoning (which you just said made sense at the time...). I think the point was that shotty seemed like VI and scum, not one or the other. I don't think that's an issue of "understand the VI mentality".

Also, I never talked about your suspicion on me.

What?

Yes, I did. It doesn't take one person to lynch someone, though. However, we now have a confirmed townie. That was my purpose in voting for NS (as I stated in my vote post). The town didn't really have any direction and we had reached a point where we needed to do something about the claimed masons because they were acting kind of scummy. I'm not the only person who felt this way.

That wasn't my point. The point is that you sort of went along with it without questioning anyone else about it. It's understandable if you've done nothing else that was as scummy, but this is in combination with everything that I wrote.

...I agreed with the lynch. I thought the potential info was useful. Which is what I said when I added the vote. Pretty much everyone on the wagon was saying "hey, either this guy is scum or mason, and either way the info will be useful". Why would I question people who are saying the same thing that I am?

Is your point here that my interest in confirming a town player is...anti-town?

My point is that it seemed more like you following along than having an interest in confirming a town player. Also, this logic doesn't work unless you knew a protective role was going to be on Nikanor 100%, because otherwise, Nikanor wouldn't be around to be much of use to anyone, now would he?

Ok, so I said why I wanted the lynch to happen, but your point of view is...I was lying? Great. If you just assume that everything I say is a lie, then finding scum gets a WHOLE lot easier.

I'm not sure how you got me not knowing that you replaced Al out of my post. At the time of the ISO, you hadn't replaced in. The ISO was on Al. So I said Al. I was just looking at his ISO posts and I wrote down the people he examined. Are you saying that because I said "DH" and "Al", that means I didn't know that you had replaced in? You know that's a pretty wide leap, right? On the plus side, there's an entire album about that part of your "worries" about me.

It just highlights the fact that you didn't read very carefully. Make of that what you will, I posted pretty heavily this day, moreso than anyone else.

There is _absolutely_ nothing that I said today that you can read and get "I don't know that DH has replaced Aldusskel". There isn't. If you got that, you read it wrong. Game over. Insert coin.

I have been saying for the past 3 game days that I find the Hito/Soc slot suspicious. This really should not be news to you. However, I've changed my mind. Reck and hito's presence on the DH v1.0 and the NS lynchwagons rules out them both being scum. Also, looking through the lynchcounts, I notice that you'll never find Al and Reck, or Al and Soc/hito on the same wagon. Hmm... considering that Al had been drifting through the game without providing much, I don't think we can make a hard judgement about DHv2.0's alignment yet.

So...is hito scum or is he not? And if you believe this, why is Zach not suspect?

Did you really ask me if I think the person I'm voting for is scum?

I have Zach as a strong townread. Are you asking me because of VC analysis?

[Untrod Tripod]

Unless you mean "rules out them both being scum" as in "one or the other can be scum, but not both", that's just a case of misunderstanding and vagueness. This is important to know, so please tell me if this is the case so I can get the facts straight.

I have been saying for the past 3 game days that I find the Hito/Soc slot suspicious. This really should not be news to you. However, I've changed my mind. Reck and hito's presence on the DH v1.0 and the NS lynchwagons rules out them both being scum. Also, looking through the lynchcounts, I notice that you'll never find Al and Reck, or Al and Soc/hito on the same wagon. Hmm... considering that Al had been drifting through the game without providing much, I don't think we can make a hard judgement about DHv2.0's alignment yet.

However, I think that it's either/or with hito and Reck now. I still find hito the more suspect of the two, so my vote will stay there.

lrn2read

[Untrod Tripod]

by my recollection, you win this game by getting rid of everyone who doesn't have a town wincon. DH is claimed SK.

...

does the town want any chance of winning this game at all? Yes? Why is DH still alive? We have 100% chance of hitting antitown right now with a DH lynch, and I say we take it. Once the dust settles after the night, we can figure out who to lynch. I think there's too many variables and unknowns with a living SK. Uncertainty favors scum. Your reticence to lynch anti-town players is noted, hito.

vote DH

[Untrod Tripod]

Your reticence to lynch anti-town players is noted, hito.

Why not aim this at Myko as well? Oh that's right, because

he's confirmed town.

Maybe when the confirmed townie is doing something you should seriously think about it instead of just blindly attacking the non-confirmed players following him?
.

Being confirmed town doesn't guarantee him infallibility. The fact that he is saying something doesn't mean that he's necessarily right. Reck has been on my scumdar for a while (as have you), but

I would rather pick a claimed anti-town player for a lynch than have a decent chance of hitting town.

Here is the thing you guys are missing. We have to pick potential scum at some point. Savvy?

Duh.

You can pick now, when confirmed townie is telling you who to pick

Him being wrong has nothing to do with his alignment, confirmed or not.

or you can pick later, when the confirmed townie is dead.

and we have more information and no living 3rd party players.

Why exactly does everyone prefer the later?

Less chance to fuck it up. Fewer variables. Scum thrives on uncertainty.

UT, what exactly do you anticipate happening when "the dust settles" besides sitting in the exact same spot sans confirmed townie?

We pick a scum lynch based on PoE.

If you mentioned no-lynching and a reason why you think we could hit 1-0-2 I'd listen, but you're not saying that, which suggests to me you're simply not thinking at all.

I don't have to restate everything that other people have said. The fact that you're trying to weasel the town out of a lynch of a 100% chance lynch of an anti-town player suggests to ME that your wincon is not with the town.

[Untrod Tripod]

no lynch

[Untrod Tripod]

EBWOP:

vote no lynch

[Untrod Tripod]

I think the day is over and your actions tonight will speak a lot louder than your words

[Untrod Tripod]

[Untrod Tripod]

Wow, ok. It had been so long since I looked at my role PM that I completely forgot I couldn't do both 0_0. My bad guys, I helped fuck the game up by not remembering that.

Personally, Skill, I think that making us puzzle out a 1-1-1 winner would have been the correct play on your part. I was reasonably certain I could convince hito that DH was a 1-shot bulletproof SK (which is a *little* less unbalanced)and we were in a 2-0-1 situation, and then I'd get the victory.

I would like to say though that this was a super fun game and I hope to play with all of you lovely people again.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT, just so you know, after this game, I'm auto-nominating you for a scummy.

soo0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0....