Mini 1042 - Skillville - GAME OVER!

[horrordude0215]

/confirm.

Sorry it took so long... Wednesdays and Thursdays are a bit hectic for me because of church and such.

Also, this is my first game to start since my return to the site! W00t!

[horrordude0215]

Going through the thread, commenting on what I think as I go.

YoshiX, you had the 29th post in the thread... surely you saw it was open. Why not make a random vote or something of the sort?

Socrates puts Ald at L-1 on page 2... Meh, nulltell at best. *BTW, could you get an avatar? Thanks!*

Scott goes all opportunistic and votes for the person that places the L-1 vote.

Demon, if he really IS reaction fishing, then surely you know that it becomes null when you bring it up, so why do it? Reactions can be a way to get a really good read on people sometimes.

Zach 32 - Your reasons for voting? You didn't give any IIRC. Explanation would be nice.

Zach, this is response to your post 38. Sure it's a possibility... but odds are that even scum wouldn't be stupid enough to quickhammer, don't you think?

Socrates, thank you for the confidence in post 43

Zach, your post 47 seems a bit like OMGUS to me. We shouldn't try and pressure our vibes? Huh?

Socrates 54 - There's a bit of flawed logic here... You can't always take a vote at face value, and it's risky to do so most of the time.

Zach 62 - I'm very confused here, and I hope you can explain this for me. You're withholding your explanation because Ald isn't here? From what I can tell, you just hopped on the BW and then said "well he's not here, so I don't have to explain myself yet". I hadn't even made a post since then, so I don't see why you were picking on HIM. Not to mention, the game was barely 12 hours old. Maybe he had school or something and couldn't get on then... did you think of that?

I sort of skimmed the rest of the posts so far... I'm tired and will read them a bit more indepth later. I mainly wanted this to be a "Hey I'm here and playing" post so you don't all forget about me xD

VOTE: Zach... you're my strongest scumread at the moment, and I'd appreciate it if you would answer the questions and reply to my comments.

FoS: Scott

I still think your vote was opportunistic.

[horrordude0215]

Sorry about not posting yesterday, everyone... I basically had to help my dad and his girlfriend go and rescue my stepbrother from being kidnapped by his dad. (Long story)

Anyways, I'll have a decent post up later today... Promise

[horrordude0215]

Finally, having an overly cute avatar might make you less likely to be lynched so Reckamonic is the scummiest by that definition.

I'm still confused as to why you included this in your post...

Scott goes all opportunistic and votes for the person that places the L-1 vote.

Opportunistic how?

L-1 is a nulltell at best. We have a new preview thing that tells us if someone posted while we were typing, and no one would be dumb enough to try and say "Well I didn't see it". I saw Scott grasping at straws trying to find someone to vote for.

Zach, your post 47 seems a bit like OMGUS to me. We shouldn't try and pressure our vibes? Huh?

Did I say that? Pressuring your vibes doesn't make your play immune to scrutiny.

Too confident/certain in early reads. Getting a bad vibe from it.

You seem to say here that we shouldn't be too confident in our reads. BTW, how confident is TOO confident to you? This still seems like an excuse to OMGUS to me, ftr.

Zach 62 - I'm very confused here, and I hope you can explain this for me. You're withholding your explanation because Ald isn't here? From what I can tell, you just hopped on the BW and then said "well he's not here, so I don't have to explain myself yet". I hadn't even made a post since then, so I don't see why you were picking on HIM. Not to mention, the game was barely 12 hours old. Maybe he had school or something and couldn't get on then... did you think of that?

The entire point of the vote, (Which was the 2nd one cast on him btw.) was to get a reaction from him. In followup posts I pointed out that the whole point of that vote was to get a reaction from him. Where did I accuse him of lurking? Where did I say lurking had anything to do with my vote? That's misrep at it's finest there.

Actually no it's not. In fact, you misrepped me by saying that I said that you said Ald was lurking. I never said that. You said that he had made very little contribution to the game, and I pointed out that the game was only 12 hours old and he hadn't posted since page 1... what contribution could there really be?

And you really need to make up your mind. First you say that he had made little contribution to the game, and that's why you were voting for him and not explaining it. (Post 62) Then you say that you wanted to get a reaction from him. (Post 66) Then you go and say he was only promoting RVS. (Post 67) And then you say it was to get a reaction again (Post 88) and in the same post say it was promoting RVS. Then you go back to saying it was for a reaction (Post 92)

I have a few things wrong with this:
1. You were the second vote on the wagon (L-5)... how are you supposed to get a reaction that way?
2. You said that he seemed to be trying to prolong the RVS. First of all, you were on page 1 and the game had only been going on for 4 posts when he made his first vote. Absolutely NOTHING was happening in the space between the 6 posts he made on page 1, so how could you say he was trying to prolong RVS? I call bullshit here.
3. You have now flip flopped on your reason

6 times

. Sorry, but that's about 4 more times than is reasonable.

Well Volkann is town, so is Zach.

Unlike DemonHybrid.

Explanations would be lovely...

I'm also really bugged by posts 80, 94 and 97. Quoting a really long post just so you can give a one sentence response, or worse yet, only bold some things in the post is NOT productive contribution. It's the appearance of activity.

Umm... no. Sometimes that's the easiest thing to do, rather than go and quote all of the specific pieces. Besides, it would have looked the exact same if he had gone and individually quoted everything. Scum reaching?

Untrod, you seem to like it when people explain their votes. Or at least, that's the vibe I'm getting from your post 102. If that's so, why not ask reckamonic to clarify their post? (95, if you're wondering)

Socrates puts Ald at L-1 on page 2... Meh, nulltell at best.

At best? That phrase usually means that you think that the best case scenario is unlikely, so from that am I to think that you thought it was scummy?

No, I meant about getting reads on people.

Yeah, so basically I

like

love my vote on Zach. More votes for him would make lynching scum so much easier

[horrordude0215]

Too confident/certain in early reads. Getting a bad vibe from it.

You seem to say here that we shouldn't be too confident in our reads. BTW, how confident is TOO confident to you? This still seems like an excuse to OMGUS to me, ftr.

I find too much confidence in early reads to ring ingenuwine, which is scummy. (This also comes down to gut feel.) Too confident is basically when you talk to someone as if they're confirmed scum. (The behavior's certainly anti-town as it doesn't take all possible motives for actions into account.)

So if I vote you and I'm confident in it, no matter how early, I'm scum? That's what I'm getting from you.

Zach 62 - I'm very confused here, and I hope you can explain this for me. You're withholding your explanation because Ald isn't here? From what I can tell, you just hopped on the BW and then said "well he's not here, so I don't have to explain myself yet". I hadn't even made a post since then, so I don't see why you were picking on HIM. Not to mention, the game was barely 12 hours old. Maybe he had school or something and couldn't get on then... did you think of that?

The entire point of the vote, (Which was the 2nd one cast on him btw.) was to get a reaction from him. In followup posts I pointed out that the whole point of that vote was to get a reaction from him. Where did I accuse him of lurking? Where did I say lurking had anything to do with my vote? That's misrep at it's finest there.

Actually no it's not. In fact, you misrepped me by saying that I said that you said Ald was lurking. I never said that. You said that he had made very little contribution to the game, and I pointed out that the game was only 12 hours old and he hadn't posted since page 1... what contribution could there really be?

And you really need to make up your mind. First you say that he had made little contribution to the game, and that's why you were voting for him and not explaining it. (Post 62) Then you say that you wanted to get a reaction from him. (Post 66) Then you go and say he was only promoting RVS. (Post 67) And then you say it was to get a reaction again (Post 88) and in the same post say it was promoting RVS. Then you go back to saying it was for a reaction (Post 92)

I have a few things wrong with this:
1. You were the second vote on the wagon (L-5)... how are you supposed to get a reaction that way?
2. You said that he seemed to be trying to prolong the RVS. First of all, you were on page 1 and the game had only been going on for 4 posts when he made his first vote. Absolutely NOTHING was happening in the space between the 6 posts he made on page 1, so how could you say he was trying to prolong RVS? I call bullshit here.
3. You have now flip flopped on your reason

6 times

. Sorry, but that's about 4 more times than is reasonable.

Lack of contribution and only promoting RVS go together. I also wanted to get a reaction to the vote without the reasoning explained to see why he thought I was voting for him at that point. Having the reason to vote him and wanting the reaction go together. It's not flip flopping. You're strawmanning.

No it doesn't. He was making jokes on page 1... how the hell is that the same as "I want RVS to continue"? And what did you do to speed up? You just voted for Ald and left, IIRC.

And speaking of strawman, I love how you didn't address my first two points, but instead only focused on the flip flop portion of it

Also I didn't misrep you. Go back to the quote.

Zach 62 - I'm very confused here, and I hope you can explain this for me. You're withholding your explanation because Ald isn't here? From what I can tell, you just hopped on the BW and then said "well he's not here, so I don't have to explain myself yet". I hadn't even made a post since then, so I don't see why you were picking on HIM.

Not to mention, the game was barely 12 hours old. Maybe he had school or something and couldn't get on then... did you think of that?

How can you read the bold and tell me that I can't interpret that as you saying I'm accusing him of lurking? You attack me for "failing to consider" that maybe had a reason for not being on then, which heavily implies that I accused him of lurking at some point. You may not have SAID it in those words. But it's a matter of trying to plant an idea into the minds of people reading the thread... and that's what I'm seeing here.

Because I wasn't saying you of accused him of lurking. You said that he hadn't contributed anything, so I pointed out that he hadn't been on since RVS and COULDN'T contribute anything. How is that the same as "You said he's lurking when he's not!"?

Even if that's a non point, characterizing me as flip flopping when my reasoning for my vote is clearly explained to be for a clear reason and a clear purpose is just ridiculous.

You WERE flip flopping, and now you're dodging my points. First you say that you voted him to get a reaction. (You were the second vote on the wagon... nice try but no), and then you say that he was trying to prolong RVS (On page 1... nice try but no), and you switch back and forth between the two, never giving a clear reason why you really voted him in the first place. How is that NOT flip flopping?

Unvote: Vote: Horrordude

Nice OMGUS there, btw. Oh wait, it's not OMGUS. You just voted for me because... wait, you didn't even give a decent reason. Instead, you use one part of my argument that you claim to be false and just ignore the rest of it. Well, maybe it is OMGUS after all...

[horrordude0215]

@HD: how many games have you played since the one we were in together. I want to know if that meta is applicable here. This will greatly help me get my bearing with my conclusions from reading the game thus far.

Which game are you referring to? All of the games I've completed so far while being on the site as well as the games I was in before I left the site are on my wiki page. This and 1 other ongoing game are the only ones since my return, if it helps.

Esp, somehow I doubt we play like dram or like reck. It's a whole different thing (with added kittens)

I'm getting scummy vibes from Horror.
One more and that makes a whole scumteam, wheeee!

You still have yet to provide reasons for your reads. (I mentioned something in my second to last post about it... if you could comment, that'd be lovely)

[horrordude0215]

Quick post for today.

Okay, so what I see here is Reckamonic being a complete idiot and not backing up his reads with any sort of evidence.

And in response to everyone's comments on my Zach case: Okay, so I'm probably wrong about the flip-floping. That still doesn't excuse how his cases are scummy as hell. First of all, how are you supposed to get a reaction from Ald when you're only the second vote on the wagon?

Zach, answer these questions for me:
1. What would you have done if he had just ignored your vote?
2. What would you have done if he had mentioned it, but did nothing?
3. What would you have done if he RVS OMGUS'd you?
4. What reaction DID you get from him?

If there's any decent response there, I'll be surprised.

And on to the other part of his case... Ald was trying to prolong RVS. Look at his first 3 posts on page 1.

Those are clearly Scum Kittens.

Vote: Reckamonic.

I think Reckamonic is scum buddies with
Spoiler: dun dun dun (dramatic music)
themselves!!

Scumbuddying, that's what they're doing.

Then he didn't post again until page 4. (You voted him at the top of page 2). What I see there is him joking around on page 1... how the hell is that the same as trying to prolong RVS?

When I brought up all of these in my post against him, he strawmanned me by completely ignoring them and only focusing on the flip-flop portion of the argument. All of those things scream scum to me, and so we should lynch Zach.

kthxbai

[horrordude0215]

Esp, you need to start producing some content. Like now. After a scan at your ISO, you say absolutely nothing until ISO 5, in which you vaguely commented that you have meta on people. After that, there's nothing until ISO 9, where you say not to get off of Zach because he "Isn't looking good". Really? You should know by now that you have to give reasons for your reads, rather than just randomly commenting on people. You're almost worse than Dramonic.

ISO 11 is the first time you seem to really suspect someone... No, you didn't vote. You FoS'd for a scummy tone.

Then ISO 13-17 was your back and forth with DH. Hmm... In the 40 minutes that you were bickering, you probably could have read part of the thread and *gasp* provided some content!

And NOW I remember the game that we were in together... Newbie 910. Take a look at my ISO there, please. How is my play there ANYTHING like it is now? You said in your ISO 9 that the meta from there is similar to how I'm playing now. Explain the correlation, now. And you also asked the games that I've played in since then to see if the meta had still applied. That was my first game ever on the site... I've since completed 4 or 5. Why not look at those and compare me that way?

Screw this... Zach can wait. (Although I would still like him to respond to my points, instead of ignoring them)

Unvote, Vote Espeonage

diescumdie

[horrordude0215]

@Espeonage: Last time I checked being mocking is a personality thing and isn't scummy.

QFT. And for more proof, I have one word for you: Ythan

[horrordude0215]

Reckamonic - null (only because I feel like he's trolling for reads)

I'm going to say this again.

IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE IS REACTIONFISHING, DON'T ANNOUNCE IT... IT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF REACTION FISHING!

[horrordude0215]

How would it have possibly worked once UT posted it for the world to see?

[horrordude0215]

When are you going to respond to my post?

[horrordude0215]

Pro-Tip: Don't skim.

This. 110% This.

And the post I was referring to is Here

[horrordude0215]

And what does that have to do with my post regarding you?

[horrordude0215]

Zach, you're ignoring my points again...

Vollkan, the point was that Esp has done nothing all game, and it doesn't excuse it because he FoS'd, I think was just a weak attempt at appearing active. I would have probably said the same if he voted... it was more of a "Why was it just an FoS instead of a vote" comment.

UT, if he's trolling for a reason (IE reaction/read fishing), let him. But DON'T announce it so everyone can see... it kinda defeats the purpose of fishing, doesn't it?

[horrordude0215]

horrordude0215

83 As I mentioned before, I fail to see how my vote was opportunistic.

I explained this in my 125.

125 I have some problems with. We were on the second page, I certainly wasn't "grasping at straws" for someone to vote.

That's the thing though... I saw it as opportunistic. You voted someone because they placed the L-1 vote, which is a nulltell at best.

Also I agree with Zach in terms of people being too confident too early and refusing to budge from those reads the rest of the day. You seem to misconstrue this in 128 as well.

I wasn't trying to misconstrue it... I was trying to figure out what he was trying to say, and that was how I was reading it.

Is there a part of this you don't understand?

No I understand you perfectly. I also know that there are less conventional tactics of getting reads, and some of them are successful. This is just a difference of opinion, I think.

@Espeonage voters: Why Espeonage and not Reckamonic?

I'm more confident in my Esp read.

While he is guilty of not responding directly to every point you made he is not guilty of strawmanning. He did not attribute to you argument you didn't make and then attack that argument instead of your own actual arguments. You're throwing in a buzzzword here in order to make your case seems stronger than it actually is.

Isn't the definition of strawman where you ignore certain parts of a case and only address others? If not, my bad... that's what I thought it meant

Sidenote, this is why Zachrulez is town.

I don't get it... Because he said he had a town read on someone? Or because he said that something was a risky way to get reactions? I'm really confused here... please shed some light on the situation.

ANOTHER SIDENOTE. horrordude calling obvtownZach his strongest scumread is seriously lulzy. And then he proceeds to argue with Zach and volkan here which is also just sad. They're both quite townie, and his points against them seem to be misreppish (see: his points against Zach).

Okay, explain how Zach is obvtown. And speaking of misreps, I wasn't arguing with vollkan... I was answering one of his questions. And again, how was I misrepping him?

Horror, your buddying is becoming way too blatant now. lololololololol.

How is that buddying? Misrep.

On the other hand, I think the DH V Reck is Town V Scum, respectively.

Espeonage, Zach, and Reckamonic are scum so far. What are the odds that it's a 4 scum game? Because if not, we have the entire team there!

[horrordude0215]

Horrordude ~

His attack in Zach’s case makes no sense to me, especially the choice of words. Not all of us are native speakers you know? Anyway, on to the important stuff. His vote on Espeonage makes no sense either. You have a huge case on Zach (which it seems you’re pretty confident of), yet you vote for Espeonage. Is it just beacuse he has more votes = more chance of getting lynched?

Umm... did you actually LOOK at my post where I switched to Espeonage? It's my ISO 7, ftr. I voted Esp because he had done absolutely nothing in the game at all. It was a pressure vote mainly until I realized that when he tried to say I'm town because of meta read that really had nothing to do with this game now.

And I still AM pretty confident of my Zach case, but if you'll notice that I said

screw this... Zach can wait. (Although I would still like him to respond to my points, instead of ignoring them)

That means that while I still have Zach on my scumlist, I have someone that I found worse. Make sense?

Yeah, this looks like a pretty safe place to park a vote after the scrutiny he received for his vote on me.

Umm... I didn't care about the scrutiny I received for my vote on you. In fact, I completely dropped the flip-flop portion of my case and asked you to just respond to the other two points, which by the way,

you have yet to do!

Reckamonic is town.

Favorite quote from you so far.

Mae gives an incomplete player list evaluation in 282, which always makes me go ermmm.

I'm confused... you give Mae a hard time about it, but you don't evaluate me, q21, or UT? Huh?

vote reck

I'll read and post tomorow.

You're replacing into what I see as a very scummy slot, and this is NOT the type of intro post that really relieves any of my suspicions

[horrordude0215]

What do you assume you'll get out of it if she's scum?

[horrordude0215]

Yeah, this looks like a pretty safe place to park a vote after the scrutiny he received for his vote on me.

Umm... I didn't care about the scrutiny I received for my vote on you. In fact, I completely dropped the flip-flop portion of my case and asked you to just respond to the other two points, which by the way,

you have yet to do!

I'm pretty sure I've addressed your points. Whether or not it's to your satisfaction may be another matter entirely. (Not that I care much cause I still think you're the best lynch, and I don't quite understand why you're not actually getting more votes.)

Uhh... no you didn't.

I have a few things wrong with this:
1. You were the second vote on the wagon (L-5)... how are you supposed to get a reaction that way?
2. You said that he seemed to be trying to prolong the RVS. First of all, you were on page 1 and the game had only been going on for 4 posts when he made his first vote. Absolutely NOTHING was happening in the space between the 6 posts he made on page 1, so how could you say he was trying to prolong RVS? I call bullshit here.

This was my case against you in my ISO 3, IIRC. I took out the flip-flop portion of it, because I can see the flawed logic there. However, I've been trying to get you to address these points

ALL GAME

and you have yet to. Please do so. And I'd also like to know why you OMGUS'd me and if it wasn't OMGUS why you voted me in the first place.

[horrordude0215]

I figured there'd be a little piece out of your insane text walls that you'd go back to and say I didn't respond to.

Neither one really warrants a response... but to make you happy.

1. Most players will respond to a player's vote on them, regardless of where it is on the wagon. Does my vote have to put a specific level of pressure on a player vote wise to get them to react?

2. 3 joking RVS posts to me looks like an attempt to start RVS related conversation designed to keep the game in RVS longer. The accusation itself was pretty weak and mostly intended to start game-relevant discussion. (And really what's wrong with that, even if it results in pressure on me?)

1. Think about it. What sort of reaction will you really get if you're the L-5 vote during RVS? I think almost everyone would just ignore it and pretend like it didn't happen.

2. I would be fine with this reply except for you didn't even mention it until 10 posts after your unvote. There was plenty of game-relevant discussion already. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it except for the fact that it was mainly added as an afterthought, so how could it have STARTED game-relevant discussion? And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't RVS usually a time to joke around and have some fun? How is it that just because Ald made 3 post on page 1, that's trying to prolong it?

Reckamonic is town.

Favorite quote from you so far.

Hi horrordude. Are you scum?

Hi Socrates. No I'm not, but can you please respond to my post 303? Thanks

Although that might change with Horrordude really soon here.

Reasons plz. Thanks

And can someone explain a brief meta of shotty? I'm assuming another VI type person?

[horrordude0215]

Socrates, what will your reads be if Makemuki flips scum because she didn't include everyone in her analysis?

Scott's 315 is scummy obv.

Shotty's 327 is LOL. First of all, your case on Zach is full of fail/misreps. Secondly, where's your case on why vollkan is scum?

And I still AM pretty confident of my Zach case, but if you'll notice that I said

screw this... Zach can wait. (Although I would still like him to respond to my points, instead of ignoring them)

That means that while I still have Zach on my scumlist, I have someone that I found worse. Make sense?

It made sense when you actually voted esp, but now that he's been replaces, why is shotty a better vote than someone you have made a rather more substantial case on?

Because shotty is still incredibly scummy, and added to Esp's scumminess it makes them scummier and Zach for the moment. (Voll explains quite a bit in his 339)

Shotty's 337 is even more LOL. Why would you RV when you replace into a game? That makes no sense to me...

Don't have much time right now, but horrordude is clearly OMGUSing us without actually voting yet.
He didn't pay as a damn bit of attention until we called out his scummy ass.

Nice try but no. I didn't suspect you as much until your post 265, but it doesn't mean that I'm OMGUSing you. In fact, quite the opposite. You're on my suspect list because of the reasons explained in my 274. You did nothing but misrep in your "case" against me, and that's why I found you scummy. It's really not too hard to understand.

Interesting point, Reck, and on investigation a somewhat valid one. Horror, all your initial attacks on reckamonic were for not explaining their reads - which was fair enough. Since Reckamonic's post explaining many of their reads you still suspect them, why?

I explained this above. You can look at his post (265) and my response to it (274) and understand why I'm still suspicious.

So, why was Espeonage scummy? He lurked for out of game reasons.

Actually he lurked because he wasn't "in" to the game. I can understand that as I have done it before in the past, but I personally found him to be scummy for other reasons.

[horrordude0215]

Oh, and Zach, are you going to respond to my post 313?

[horrordude0215]

My ISO 7 is my entire case. To sum it up: He was a lurker and he was buddying up to me, hard. Both things I found scummy, so I voted him for it.

[horrordude0215]

1. Think about it. What sort of reaction will you really get if you're the L-5 vote during RVS? I think almost everyone would just ignore it and pretend like it didn't happen.

It's not what vote you are. Votes that are serious or votes that might be serious are generally going to be responded to.

You just said "Yo, vote aldel". Nice try, but that's not a serious vote, and it won't be considered as such.

2. I would be fine with this reply except for you didn't even mention it until 10 posts after your unvote. There was plenty of game-relevant discussion already. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it except for the fact that it was mainly added as an afterthought, so how could it have STARTED game-relevant discussion? And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't RVS usually a time to joke around and have some fun? How is it that just because Ald made 3 post on page 1, that's trying to prolong it?

People tend to see RVS that way, but if you're joking around and having fun in RVS, you're not moving the game forward. That's what I was trying to do. As for the prolonging RVS, I did see potential for it in that manner of posting yes.

When you're on Page 1 and you've only had a few people post, how can you really move the game along?

And at this point, I think you've used up your questions regarding this line of discussion. I find it unproductive to keep going back and forth on this RVS issue. If you have any other points against me that you want to bring up, then I'll respond to those as they come up.

Hell no. If you're going to call me scum for misrepping you, then it's not unproductive for me to prove why I'm not.

Claiming that he was buddying up to you is borderline. Claiming that he was buddying up to you hard is ridiculous. And if you entire case is in ISO 7 and buddying is part of that case... why did you not mention buddying in your ISO 7?

He tried to say I was town based off of meta reasons, and when you look you notice that there's no way you can do that based off of the meta he gave. How is that not buddying? And I didn't directly call out the word buddying, but it was definitely implied.

[horrordude0215]

1. Think about it. What sort of reaction will you really get if you're the L-5 vote during RVS? I think almost everyone would just ignore it and pretend like it didn't happen.

It's not what vote you are. Votes that are serious or votes that might be serious are generally going to be responded to.

You just said "Yo, vote aldel". Nice try, but that's not a serious vote, and it won't be considered as such.

It was a serious vote. I didn't crack a joke or say anything to indicate the vote was random.

You didn't give any indication that it was serious, so how was he supposed to take it as such? Because you didn't make a joke?

2. I would be fine with this reply except for you didn't even mention it until 10 posts after your unvote. There was plenty of game-relevant discussion already. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it except for the fact that it was mainly added as an afterthought, so how could it have STARTED game-relevant discussion? And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't RVS usually a time to joke around and have some fun? How is it that just because Ald made 3 post on page 1, that's trying to prolong it?

People tend to see RVS that way, but if you're joking around and having fun in RVS, you're not moving the game forward. That's what I was trying to do. As for the prolonging RVS, I did see potential for it in that manner of posting yes.

When you're on Page 1 and you've only had a few people post, how can you really move the game along?

You just do it. What page you're on doesn't matter, there's no arbitrary point where RVS ends.

Okay, so how are you SUPPOSED to "do it"?

[horrordude0215]

Yeah Zach is just failing with his posts now.

Looking at the most recent vote count, I see that shotty is the second highest wagon. This should be fixed asap plz

[horrordude0215]

So, why was Espeonage scummy? He lurked for out of game reasons.

Actually he lurked because he wasn't "in" to the game. I can understand that as I have done it before in the past, but I personally found him to be scummy for other reasons.

You don't answer his actual question here - why was Espy scummy?

I was clarifying something posted... the question wasn't directed at me in the first place, IIRC.

Which is funny because then you go on to say, when asked to explain why he was scummy:

My ISO 7 is my entire case. To sum it up: He was a lurker and he was buddying up to me, hard. Both things I found scummy, so I voted him for it.

Which is flat-out contradictory.

HD+3

You can't simultaneously back away from the silly argument that lurking was scummy and also accuse him of being scum for lurking.

All I said was that I had done things like that before, and it wasn't the only reason I though he was scummy for.

And just let me quote your ISO7:

Esp, you need to start producing some content. Like now. After a scan at your ISO, you say absolutely nothing until ISO 5, in which you vaguely commented that you have meta on people. After that, there's nothing until ISO 9, where you say not to get off of Zach because he "Isn't looking good". Really? You should know by now that you have to give reasons for your reads, rather than just randomly commenting on people. You're almost worse than Dramonic.

ISO 11 is the first time you seem to really suspect someone... No, you didn't vote. You FoS'd for a scummy tone.

Then ISO 13-17 was your back and forth with DH. Hmm... In the 40 minutes that you were bickering, you probably could have read part of the thread and *gasp* provided some content!

And NOW I remember the game that we were in together... Newbie 910. Take a look at my ISO there, please. How is my play there ANYTHING like it is now? You said in your ISO 9 that the meta from there is similar to how I'm playing now. Explain the correlation, now. And you also asked the games that I've played in since then to see if the meta had still applied. That was my first game ever on the site... I've since completed 4 or 5. Why not look at those and compare me that way?

Screw this... Zach can wait. (Although I would still like him to respond to my points, instead of ignoring them)

Unvote, Vote Espeonage

diescumdie

The vast bulk of that is attacking his lurking.

I'd say it's close to 50/50 personally, but you can believe what you want I guess...

On the buddying itself:

He tried to say I was town based off of meta reasons, and when you look you notice that there's no way you can do that based off of the meta he gave. How is that not buddying? And I didn't directly call out the word buddying, but it was definitely implied.

This is BS.

HD+2

You're seriously contemplating that scum-Espy would, out of a desire to buddy you, deliberately concoct a false meta for you. A simple maxim all too often forgotten:

Cockup before conspiracy

.

First of all, it's not BS. Would it be so hard to believe that he would false meta me to try and get me on his side? (BTW, look at the game linked... my play there is NOTHING like it is now). And What is Cockup before conspiracy? I've never heard of it before...

Nice try but no. we didn't suspect you as much until your post 265, but it doesn't mean that we're OMGUSing you. In fact, quite the opposite. You're on my suspect list because of the reasons explained in my 274. You did nothing but misrep in your "case" against me, and that's why we found you scummy. It's really not too hard to understand.

we're very confused as to how your responses to our 265 at ALL indicate us suddenly becoming instant scum. Here, let me enlighten you

since you seem to be so thick

(dram says no being mean, so we'll compromise).

Misreping is scummy. People who are scummy deserve suspicion. It's really not that hard to understand.

I don't get it... Because he said he had a town read on someone? Or because he said that something was a risky way to get reactions? I'm really confused here... please shed some light on the situation.

This is a legitimate plea, which we could have bought until you turned that into actual suspicion. Here, you just ask a question. Somehow, that translates instantly into OH RECKAMONIC IS SCUM. For the record, Zach was obvtown because we agreed with his vote and he took a definitive stance on DemonHybrid. It came off as clearly town that early in the game.

Oh, so I can be townie until I suspect you... I get it now. And you can have a town read on Zach because of some early comments I suppose, but his late game play has been scummy as hell, so yeah that doesn't work with me.

How is that buddying? Misrep.

Really? How is THAT buddying? Gee, I don't know, maybe it's the blind agreement with Ald and super support of something he said that isn't even really that much of a stance on anything. It feels phony and an attempt to appear pro-town by going 'YEAH! SKIMMING IS BAD, GUYZ!'.

Ald posted that you should skim. I posted a simple QFT post to say that it's a bad thing to do. So how is that buddying? Nice try but no.

Socrates does blatant BW in his 385.

And for anyone wondering, DH is town and shouldn't be lynched today. Thanks

[horrordude0215]

Oh, so I can be townie until I suspect you... I get it now. And you can have a town read on Zach because of some early comments I suppose, but his late game play has been scummy as hell, so yeah that doesn't work with me.

Really?! Really?! Your entire attack on me has been based on my early play. This is just ridiculous. Lynch nao plz.

It STARTED with your early play. Your fail excuses and such in the late game is what sealed it in for me.

[horrordude0215]

Which is funny because then you go on to say, when asked to explain why he was scummy:

My ISO 7 is my entire case. To sum it up: He was a lurker and he was buddying up to me, hard. Both things I found scummy, so I voted him for it.

Which is flat-out contradictory.

HD+3

You can't simultaneously back away from the silly argument that lurking was scummy and also accuse him of being scum for lurking.

All I said was that I had done things like that before, and it wasn't the only reason I though he was scummy for.

You're going to have to elaborate here, because I don't see how you're actually answering the question -- how can you say that Espeonage was just lurking for non-strategy reasons, but then turn around and say that he's scummy for lurking?

I said that

I

had done things like that before, not that I was 100% sure it's what he was doing.

You're seriously contemplating that scum-Espy would, out of a desire to buddy you, deliberately concoct a false meta for you. A simple maxim all too often forgotten:

Cockup before conspiracy

.

First of all, it's not BS. Would it be so hard to believe that he would false meta me to try and get me on his side? (BTW, look at the game linked... my play there is NOTHING like it is now).

It's a bit of a stretch. Why should Espeonage bother, when it's so much easier to buddy up to someone by agreeing with them?

There are other ways of buddying you know...