Mini 1026 - Ohne Mafia (Game Over!)

[NicolBolas]

/conferm

[NicolBolas]

confirm.

All answer please (My answers will follow)...

What is everyone's opinions on lurkers?

-They suck

Have you heard of Andy Burnham?

no

How do you plan to find scum?

By asking questions and attacking odd things i see

How would you describe your playing style?

Lots of questions until i find someone scummy, then i take that person down

How much mafia have you played?

Not enough

AS other people have said, i really dislike the question "How do you plan to find scum?". This makes it look like you are trying to see what is scummy to others and avoid it. Defense please.

[NicolBolas]

@Boberz- your response is good.

[NicolBolas]

I already did. I asked for your defense, and you gave it.

I havent seen anything else recently that merits a question. But, dont worry, because something will come up soon.

[NicolBolas]

@foil- why no answers? What harm do you feel they can cause?

[NicolBolas]

@arachebob- that's a great case. I don't have much to add, but I want to hear what he has in his own defense.

vote boberz

[NicolBolas]

I did not change my mind on you. I liked your response to my question. What arachebob posted concerns another issue- your attuide in this game.

[NicolBolas]

Moose- I answered in my previous post. Not good enough for you?

[NicolBolas]

My point is that I did not flip flop.

I join bandwaagons if I feel that they have a valid premise.

[NicolBolas]

Well- I said I liked the response: to my question about the possible scummy inclusion of the scumhunting question. Now, arachebob's case is mostly about ovvereaction and defensiveness.

In nowhere did I say that I thought that boberz was not scummy. I never reversed my opinion.

And I'm not a democrat.

[NicolBolas]

It's war and guns, but no jesus.

[NicolBolas]

I will have a megapost later tonight. I have a lot to say. A lot to ask too.

[NicolBolas]

I'm still working on my post, but FEMM- what do you mean? I defended nobody.

[NicolBolas]

On me “Flip-Flopping” with my opinion on boberz:

For me, everyone starts off with a null rating. I ask questions and see what they bring to me. I also look at the posts by people. That is how i decide if people are scummy. I will clarify exactly what happened. I believe that certain people are trying to use my alleged flip flopping as a way to attack me. I will start off by showing people the quotes in question:

How do you plan to find scum?

By asking questions and attacking odd things i see

AS other people have said, i really dislike the question "How do you plan to find scum?". This makes it look like you are trying to see what is scummy to others and avoid it. Defense please.

My original question.

Erm, we should all be avoiding what other people think is scummy first of all. But the idea was to put emphasis in everybody's mind on scumhunting, too many day 1s are random votes followed by two wagons one of which ends up in a mislynch. Crap. So I was doing something different, ie get everyone to think about how they scumhunt. I am not going into what I read into the various responses before everyone has done it, neither am I providing my answers until others have because of the risk of scum just trying to latch on to what I am looking for.

Note, the only person to actually explain what was scummy about that question is me. NB just rewrote what I said about it. This is a massive fallacy I expect everyone to understand. Everybody should be trying to look town, and town should be looking for scum.

Here boberz explains his reasons for including the question in the list.

@Boberz- your response is good.

Here i said that the answer was good, meaning i thought it was valid.

boberz had adequately explained his reasoning for the inclusion of the question.

1)

Overreaction

2)

Desperately Overdefensive

3)

His defense is WIFOM, and makes no sense

Later, archaebob points out these three things, related to boberz’s response and the style. I though that the points brought up were very good, so i added my vote in this post:

@arachebob- that's a great case. I don't have much to add, but I want to hear what he has in his own defense.

vote boberz

Then FEMM says i flip-flopped in this post:

NicolBolas, you just flip-flopped from being suspicious of boberz, to liking his defense, then seeing archeabob's case and placing a vote...

The above post looks suspiciously like a strawman argument. Who joins that “bandwagon” of accusing me of flip flopping are the following- boberz, moose,

Then boberz accuses me of voting him for the exact same thing that he defended himself from. This is not true. archaebob’s case brought up different issues than what i asked boberz about earlier. Then FEMM votes me for “defending my flip-flopping”.

THEN boberz says i massively flip-flopped. I just find the interaction between boberz and FEMM quite odd. They build off each other’s weak cases on me, to the point where they scream i am scummy.

By the way, my vote was just trying to add pressure on archaebob’s case. i made it clear i was voting boberz because of arachebob’s post.

Later Furclow says that he wrote off almost all suspicion of boberz, in the same type of wording as FEMM earlier. Compare:

I think boberz has put up a good defense now... I can't say my suspicion is totally dropped, but it's not as high as it was.

I am content with boberz defense of himself. I'm not ready to write him off as confirmed, and I wasn't ever really suspicious of the RQS, I was suspicious of his lurking the forum and not posting until being called out on it.

------------------------------

Now, my opinion of the game so far is:

FEMM, and Furcolow is scummy, boberz is mildly scummy,

moose is slightly odd, arachebob is too zealous..

null reads on everyone else. I’m not sure what to make of Tasky.

I’ll now

unvote, vote FEMM

because out of all the people in the game, his posts seem the most dishonest to me.

I'm going to look at Furc and Tasky in ISO and see what i get from there.

[NicolBolas]

@foil- your vote tags is broken.

[NicolBolas]

@Tasky- attacking for somebody for being scummy and telling them to think of why they are scummy strikes me as a strange way to scumhunt. can you explain why you are trying this?

@Fur- you placed somebody at L-1 rather quickly. did you legitimately think that he should have been lynched at that point? Your unvote leads me to think not. So why did you want to vote boberz in the first place? If not for a lynch, then what? Something tells me that you are townie despite others' doubts. Is this correct?

@foil- are you saying you plan to sheep on my case with FEMM? Why dont you evaluate who you think is scummy and go from there?

[NicolBolas]

Fur- Sorry. that sentence was badly worded. I meant that i believed you were protown despite others' opinion. Though, you say that you wanted to vote to pressure him, but not lynch? My onion of votes is that they are to be used on people that you want to lynch. hmm?

[NicolBolas]

Fur- a2 has not been posting in other games also. Do you think he is lurking scummily or do you think he is scum based on his posts?

[NicolBolas]

Fair enough.

[NicolBolas]

Fur- I never heard that. It's still early in day one, so I don't really think it is time to lynch a2. I'm willing to wait until he is replaced. But if he contunites to post little content over the game, I'll get on his ass.

[NicolBolas]

Tasky- you want me to tell you what i think you think of me?

I think that you think i am asking a lot of questions.

In my opinion, your method is just a roundabout way to try and *censored*. I see why you are doing it now. I'm curious about the results now.

[NicolBolas]

@Archaebob- you act very zealous. Is this your normal playing style? I would like some links to previous games where you acted this way if possible. Strong rhetoric and very pro-town posting does not always mean you are a townie.

I want to point out several things i do not like here in boberz's post.

Fur, I also lpay a different game from what people expect, so long as you can justify it I dont care. The point is you cannot, and have not been able to in other games, hence you become a mislynched townie.

@NB Femm and I cross posted with the flip flopping thing, so you need to remove that from your FEMM case. In fact the whole case seems to be links from him to others, I dont like links between people untill you know what the other person is.

1) "mislynched townie"- Do you have knowledge that he will be a mislynched townie, not scum? This may be a possible scum slip.

2) FEMM was the first one to accuse me of flip flopping. His case on me was, as archaebob says, full of crap. I found this scummy. That is why i have him voted. I do not see a reason for removing that point from my case. About the links between FEMM and other players: It was odd, so i pointed it out. It doesnt matter what you like. If i see something i think is different, I call it out.

@FEMM- Where are you? I want your defense from the things i noticed.
--
I will read through Fur's posts to see if i can find what archaebob was referring to. But- for now, I want FEMM to be lynched for his strawman case on me. Call it OMGUS if you want.

[NicolBolas]

All right. read through Fur's posts. FEMM is worse. I want answers from FEMM.

[NicolBolas]

All right. Textwalls are normal for archaebob. this makes it a null tactic.

I noticed. you seem good at spotting that type of thing.

For me, archaebob is leaning town.

[NicolBolas]

boberz- I'm not disregarding the link because FEMM said flip-flop, then you crossposted saying that i changed my opinion. I'm looking at the fact you keep on accusing me of flip flopping thru the last three pages. This is what links you with FEMM. I'm just pointing out a link. Maybe it is scummy, maybe it is not.

[NicolBolas]

Typically people who FoS and vote someone like I did will be aligned with the person they FoSed in the first place, correct?

Just pointing out a sentence i really dont like from Fur. I see no protown motivation for saying this.

[NicolBolas]

Typically people who FoS and vote someone like I did will be aligned with the person they FoSed in the first place, correct?

Just pointing out a sentence i really dont like from Fur. I see no protown motivation for saying this.

Of course you don't. You have the second amount of votes and I have the first. If you didn't push me you'd be dumb

What the hell? have you been reading? If you havent noticed, i have been "pushing" FEMM over you, hmm?

[NicolBolas]

I want FEMM lynched right now.

You, i think, are most likely town-aligned, but your sentence i disliked.


This =/= pushing you.

[NicolBolas]

Fur- where am i being a liar?

[NicolBolas]

My vote is not on you. My vote is on FEMM. Look at vote count. You probably have me mixed up with somebody else.

I'm confused now...

boberz, you may have cross posted, but later in the game, you said that i was f-fing.

[NicolBolas]

EBWOP: (the First two parts is to furclow.)

[NicolBolas]

by the way, is english your native language, boberz?

[NicolBolas]

All right. Your spelling makes it hard to read your posts at times. for example: "Whey" what is that?

[NicolBolas]

Moose- This is my first normal in which i have no idea what is going on. Now what do i do? I look for scummy things and call them out. I do not sit back and let others make my case for me. Please read and post your reads on everybody, at least.

Wraith- Why do i think FEMM needs to die? He has been quite scummy in his 8 posts. For example:

Vote: NicolBolas

I know you defended the flip-flopping opinion of boberz, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

He voted me and tried to blame the accusations of flip- flopping on boberz. Shifting blame.

I really want him to come in and give me more content.

[NicolBolas]

HMM. This game is quite difficult for me to read. too many players are engaging in behavior that is quite antitown.

@Archaebob- I disagree about your point on publishing our town reads. In this game, it would help us slightly because too may players are being antitown purposely. I'm of the opinion that smart scum would be able to figure out who everybody viewed as being the most towny possible, even if we dont say anything. discuss.

@FEMM- It looks as though Fur is happy to be in the spotlight of the town right now. I want your opinion on other players, not just Fur. I can see i misread that post of yours, now, but what about the other posts?You have been posting very little content. To make up for this- I have a question for you: Who would you choose to vig right now(other than Fur), and why?


More questions coming up soon.

[NicolBolas]

1) Fur, you, Moose, FEMM, Hrezs, and Wraith. Not to mention the nonposter- a2rudeboy. This is a lot to me.

3) I asked my question to FEMM. how he answers will make or break my case on him. My case is that he is being scummy with his minimal contributions and incorrect statements.

[NicolBolas]

a2- if you cannot post or participate meaningfully in the game, could you replace out?

[NicolBolas]

Security against defeat implies defensive tactics;
ability to defeat the enemy means taking the offensive.

This is what you are lacking. You are not taking the offensive. You are defending yourself.

There are roads which must not be followed,
armies which must be not attacked, towns which must
be besieged, positions which must not be contested,
commands of the sovereign which must not be obeyed.

You are following a road that should never be followed- acting antitown on purpose. The only thing that this can do is make you a target and losing your crediblity. Which leads to the following:

The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,
sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

You are not being wise in choosing your prior antitown actions, you are not being sincere in your play, you are not being strict in your displicine. Therefore, you as the commander, you will lose the war.

Step up in your play. Attack where you are not expected to attack. Get serious about this game.

Also- nobody is asking you to claim.

[NicolBolas]

Fur- stop being an idiot.

Boberz- On purpose or not, these players are still enagin in antitown behavior. As you can see, I see almost half of the town as scummy. There cannot be 5 scum. That is why I made the post you refer to.

Also, I am no waiting around. I want FEMM's answer to my question. If you haven't noticed, my vote is on him now.

[NicolBolas]

The question is so I can see what he is thinking, so I can read him better. He has not been giving much content for me to rea him.

I know. That is what I'm trying to do. I am focusing on FEMM now. After I'm done with him, I'll focus on somebody else.

[NicolBolas]

I just ISO'ed NicolBolas, and I can't find anything, anywhere, that amounts to an original accusation.

First he voted Boberz based on someone else's reasoning, then he votes FEMM with the following:

I’ll now unvote, vote FEMM because out of all the people in the game, his posts seem the most dishonest to me.

You sir are truly active lurking. 100% of your posts are answering or asking questions with 0 follow through, or discussing what does or does not amount to pro-town activity. Essentially IoA. You haven't done

anything.

unvote, vote: NicolBolas

Foil- I have not been playing great in this game, but i do not believe i was active lurking. It does not help that the person who i suspect the most has not been posting. People have been attacking me for bullshit reasons during the game. I need FEMM to post more so i can affirm my read on him. I do have other suspects, but if i go after them instead, FEMM will have no reason to post more. My accusation on FEMM was original i believe. Tone can be a strong indicator to the scumminess f people to me. I found that i disliked how FEMM was posting. None of it seemed "right" to me, and then i vote him, and what do i get? NOTHING. FEMM just goes after Fur because that was what the town consensus was.

If you insist, I will post a case on exactly why i feel FEMM is scummy.

The questions seem pretty helpful to scum, though.
Why so paranoid, boberz? Seems fishy to act so defensive so early in the game.
... And like archeabob's ninja post states, I do agree that boberz is looking pretty scummy right now.

Here FEMM points out what has already been pointed out before.

NicolBolas, you just flip-flopped from being suspicious of boberz, to liking his defense, then seeing archeabob's case and placing a vote...

Here, FEMM calls something a flip-flop, which has been proven to be patently bullshit.

The issue is, the questions aren't very helpful to town. Why on earth would you reveal your scuhunting tactic to everyone including scum? Obviously the scum will now what to avoid then.
Secondly, If a townie were to be attacked this early there wouldn't be too much need to panic. If scum were to be attacked, there would be much need for panic, since it is so early in the game and they didn't even gt much of a chance to play yet.

Here FEMM repeats something that has already been answered. His second point is common sense, i believe.

Lol, I'm Republican too. /off-topic.
Wanting a claim isn't always fishing, its typical rule if you're at L-1 to claim.
Boberz isn't at L-1 just yet, though.
... And my questions weren't answered.

Nothing meaningful here. defends furclow's request to claim.

I don't think a claim would make him less scummy.

Duh. Though, what if he claims a important role?

I think boberz has put up a good defense now... I can't say my suspicion is totally dropped, but it's not as high as it was.
Also, the reason I hadn't voted yet was because I wanted to vote boberz, but I didn't want him at L-1. I didn't have other suspicions strong enough at that time. Now I think Nicol and Furclow are my next top picks.
And please stop with the political fluff, kthx.

Vote: NicolBolas

I know you defended the flip-flopping opinion of boberz, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

Acquits boberz for his defense in an odd way that says that boberz is not really a suspect for him. Goes after me for a bullshit reason, and mentions Fur who everyone else had found scummy at that point. ALSO- he says to stop with the political fluff- which he also participated in.

I then vote him, and he goes away for a long time (almost 3 pages, i think) until he comes back to say this:

Okay, first of all

Unvote

.

1)

NicolBolas, I didn't like the reasoning you gave before on the flip-flop, but I've read everything through again and I do think that it was just a changing of opinions after seeing Abob's case on boberz. It did bring up good points, but it was still odd how quickly you're opinion changed. You've since said and clarified that you change your vote to who is scummiest at that time.

2)

Now, I beleive you misunderstood my post saying "I did not like you're flip-flopping opinion of boberz" because then you wen't on to say I was shifting blame onto boberz. That was not at all what I meant on that. I was reffering to your suspicion on boberz, then stating "I like your answer" in reply to boberz's defense, then seeing Abob's case and placing a vote on the person you just liked the defense of. (Which, like stated above, was fishy at that moment but you have since clarified that Abob's case was well-built and was boberz-vote-worthy). So I don't know where you came up with that.

3)

I am really not liking Furclow right now. Everyone has already brought up many, maaany, good points on him, but the things in particular that are sticking out to me is the fact he was accusing Nicol of having a vote on him... When clearly he didn't because he was on my case at that moment. That's really odd. Furclow, are you reading what's going on? I don't understand how you could confuse a vote like that.
And I would vote you now but I can't seem to find the recent vote count.

(numbered for clearness)

1) Still on the "flip-flop" issue. here he defends his previous posts while "excusing me". And he takes a long time to say it.
2) I misread it, but still, i did not like the way you said "It doesnt sit well with me"
3) Fur again. here he points out the fact that Fur misread my vote as being on him. It seems that FEMM did not read also, because I pointed this out and Fur unvoted and apologized. Other than that, there was no valid reason for accusing Fur that you listed.

@Furcolow: ... Wat. You're just going to randomly aim for a lynch on a random person???
That isn't very pro-town.

DUH.

Then he goes away for good. This is called what? LURKING.

I read nothing positive in FEMM's posts, even though he posted very little.

THIS IS WHY FEMM IS SCUMMY.

My vig question is because i wanted to know who FEMM wanted dead. I didnt ask for "scummy" because "who you think is scummy" is a weaker question, and requires less explantation. The answer i get from this will be able to be analyzed from me to see if FEMM has decent motives or not.



enough content for you, Foil?

[NicolBolas]

By the way, I am choosing to treat Furco like a player with the post restriction of being the scummiest he can be. I believe hie is townie. I am ignoring him.

[NicolBolas]

@NicolBolas: The fact that your suspicion is not unfounded is reassuring. However, you can be just as easily accused of the same reactive playstyle. So what makes him scum and you town?

I'm reacting to what people post with points. FEMM is just repeating things and making bullshit points. If you read me of the same type of play, I would suggest you look at what i have been posting and what FEMM has been posting, then tell me if we have the same style again.

Fur- I guess it is a good thing you arent a dayvig.

[NicolBolas]

Fur- That's why. Now, kindly shut up, or step up with your play.

[NicolBolas]

You arent confirmed by any way. If you're paying attention to the game, the majority of people think you are scum. Step up your play by playing in a manner that is not scummy and convince us all you arent scum.

[NicolBolas]

Fur- i would appreciate it if you answered this simple question. What are you trying to accomplish with your play? Did you find anything from it so far?

Foil- what do you have to say to my post?

[NicolBolas]

Vigilante that shoots during the day.

[NicolBolas]

No.

You're not contributing either.. Ignore whatever Fur has to say.

[NicolBolas]

No.

You're not contributing either.. Ignore whatever Fur has to say.

I did too contribute. I wrote a nice post about archaebob, boberz and fur.

You werent contributing when you said :

HOW COOL! Is that what he is claiming?

This proves you are not reading the game at all.

[NicolBolas]

Wraith, what would you say if I said you were just failtown?

Wraith's ignoring of this question bothers me. In my experience, the one time i used a similar technique to this, and the person ignored me. Now, I assume that town would be pissed off at this accusation, noone wants to be fail town. However, scum would feel awkward at this, because being failtown means that I view them as town, so they are slightly happy and thus don't know how to respond which means that they won't.

ALSO, the question seems rhetorical to me. If that was directed at me, I wouldnt say anything about it either. You say you tried it before. did it work?

[NicolBolas]

Look, people. I'll repost it for clarity.

I'm not a dayvig

This is just useless noise from Fur. Ignore it.

[NicolBolas]

to add to the above: Why is Foil's vote still on me? Am i still scummy to you?

[NicolBolas]

Foil- answer this: who else is attacking FEMM? Also, innoncous questions? I have a reason for every question I ask. Post a question that you didn't like, and then I'll explain the reason behind it.

Also- I'm less of a noob than everyone? Look at my join date and moose' join date. Moose has 1 more year than me. I'm not writing him off as a simple noob.

[NicolBolas]

You don't call posting a case on why I want FEMM lyncheD "attacking"? What's your defintion, then?

[NicolBolas]

I would cooperate as long as I believe that person is scum. But seriously, nobody else sees why I think femm is scum?

[NicolBolas]

Your cries of IoA is meaningless. In these points, I indicate what is scummy about FEMM. IoA or not, these thing are still scummy. Also, why give FEMM pointers to defending himself? Addtionally- I honestly think you are taking the term IoA a bit too far. I am attacking somebody, with me pointing out things that are scummy for him. This is not IoA.

I'm still waiting for you to point out a "useless" question from me.

I do not like Foil' efforts to discredit me.

I'll read Wraith in the morning and decide where I stand on him.

[NicolBolas]

I'll do that with a case on wraith. I'm not voting him because other players say so.

[NicolBolas]

I will vote wraith in the morning, after I read him. That's all I'm asking.

[NicolBolas]

Read, reread, and reread Wraith. I'm sorry to say but i wont vote him. Who (other than FEMM) do i find scummy?

Hrezs
Moose
Cael

Out of the above, I'm inclined to

unvote, vote hrezs

just because of the following series:

Unvote, Vote:Wraith

not feelin him

Hrez - Your posts are too short. Why did you vote wraith? Saying "I'm not feeling it" is not adequate. I need to be able to figure out your alignment, and the only way I can do that is if you make arguments against people. I like your individuality and your attitude, but I need more content

Wraith - I can tell you're a smart dude, and that makes me very unhappy with your play. You're active lurking. Do a votecount yourself if you have to. But start playing.

Archae- You cover my wraith case pretty much to a T

With the above exchange in mind, I'm inclined to think that Hrezs' "case" on Wraith is one of active lurking. Wraith has explained why he is not active lurking. Now i see no case on wraith whatsoever. If you all could point out where wraith's case is located, I'll gladly take a look.

Now, Foil, I'm ready to listen to your tiresome screams of IoA...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other news, I really am starting to get uncomfortable about archaebob's extreme efforts at bossing players around. He has insuititated that it would be bad to vote for "active" players, which he clearly is a part of. I kind of get the feeling that archaebob is trying to take up the reins of the town, and steer us where he wants to go. archaebob, you forget, 12 people working together can be more productive than a single person trying to do everything himself. If archaebob is scum, the position he worked himself into is a very nice one. Let me remind everyone:

Walls of text, nicely formatted, along with telling people what to do in a protown attitude =/= being town.

It is unbelievably easy for the town to be led in circles by scum using this technique. If you want a good example of this- look at Vollkan (Another player on MS). When he is scum, he uses this technique. I'm not going to look it up, but if you want to do the extra legwork, feel free to research. I'm not going to vote for archaebob today because i believe i have a stronger read on FEMM and Hrezs, but i encourage you all to take what everybody says with a grain of salt. YES, this includes me.

[NicolBolas]

Look up too townie on the wiki NB. I am not prepared to consider abob this early in the game.

@NB

Fur, you, Moose, FEMM, Hrezs, and Wraith

These were people you said were acting antitown.

Now you cant even find a small point on wraith?
Which is it?

1) I know. Thats why i said not now, but later. I just wanted to make sure that the town does not rabidly follow him.

2) Antitown behavior i see from wraith- not posting enough. Each player on my acting antitown list is not being protown. That's what i meant. But, I read him, and i think that he is not scum. I would be willing to wager he is town. I found small points on wraith, but they are too small to merit my vote. I take my votes seriously. If you or someone else has a strong case on wraith, I could consider it, but as of right now, there is none that i see.

Hrezs on the other hand feels quite scummy to me. One of the things i dislike is scum making this excuse for their vote- "Oh, i was just reaction fishing". If so, Hrezs would have gotten a better reaction if he added some evidence or reasoning for the vote.

I dont need to vote Wraith to pressure him to up his game and provide more content-
------------
@Wraith- Answer these two questions NOW:

1) Top three suspects and why?
2) Who would you like to vig (other than Hrezs or Fur) and why?
------------
Foil- you probably think the above questions are useless. I assure you, I have a reason for each.

[NicolBolas]

It was not answered the first time.

And i have already answered it. see below:

My vig question is because i wanted to know who FEMM wanted dead. I didnt ask for "scummy" because "who you think is scummy" is a weaker question, and requires less explantation. The answer i get from this will be able to be analyzed from me to see if FEMM has decent motives or not

Just replace FEMM's name with Wraith's name.

[NicolBolas]

That' L-1 on wraith. Hold up, all right? At least give wraith a chance to explain things

[NicolBolas]

That's something I can support.

unvote, vote moose

I have reasons. I will give them tonight.

[NicolBolas]

I don't like the wraith wagon, but I like the moose wagon. What can I do about it? I'm choosing to take my position on the issue.

[NicolBolas]

unvote

Forget it. There's so much spam this game it throws off my albity to identify scum.

I have one question for you, moose, though. You say that your line of questioning me for my alleged flip flop was just to annoy me. you sure accomplished your purpose. now, what did you get from it?

I ask the town- Are you all voting Wraith because he is scum, or because you all are lurker-hunting? If the latter, Wraith has already explained RL issues.

My two strongest scumreads has been vetoed by the town mayor- archaebob. Now, tell me what i should do if i cannot even act on my suspicions?

I believe that everyone should be able to pursue each suspicion they have. I do not think it is good to manipulate the town in becoming your mindless minions.

FEMM's replacement- your predecessor was so scummy. I want to lynch you. I suggest you start posting solid content.

FEMM said i was being pushy and tunnely. The pushy part i disagree with. Just look at archaebob and Foillist for that. Me being tunnely? YES, BECAUSE FEMM HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

With what i have said in mind, I'm nearly ready to give up on this game. I'm gonna vote Wraith. I know it is to L-1, so i hope that you all are right. Here goes.

vote Wraith

[NicolBolas]

FUR, do us a favor, and dont hammer.

[NicolBolas]

Like i said, i gave up. I have no say whatosover. I have repeattedely tried to explain my case, and nobody listens.

To me, FEMM is number one on my scumlist, Number two is Hrezs, and I dont have any really good reasons for the rest. I thought i could get on Moose as he was a abob- approved target, but after i read him, he did not strike me as a person i wanted lynched just yet. His defense was terrible, granted, but i dont really see him as scum.

[NicolBolas]

Seriously. Why did moose claim?

Shit. This is bad.

[NicolBolas]

@Foil- Fine, point out why you arent voting either FEMM or Hrezs, other than abob's command?

[NicolBolas]

I have repeatedly said that Wraith was a bad target, and you all ingore me. I see nothing else i can do, but to blindly follow along. That is the only option you and abob leave me.

unvote vote FEMM

Let's see where this goes.

I refuse to vote moose, because i believe him.

[NicolBolas]

Because that's how i read you. You would have to be stupid if you were scum with the type of content you have been posting.

[NicolBolas]

Lurking is not my entire case. he still have been posting scummy posts.

[NicolBolas]

I'm not putting pressure on a lurker. I want that person lynched. I dont care if he is being replaced. If he is replaced, then his replacement will have t convince me to remove my guilty read on him.

I believe that scum can be found in FEMM, Hrezs, and possibly one of (not both) Foil/ abob.

the first two is my strongest scumreads, and the next one is so far down the scale....

If i vote Hrezs, will you vote with me?

unvote, vote hrezs

[NicolBolas]

I believe that at the speed we are posting, people will fall by the wayside. I think it may help the town if we werent so active. That way, the people who have not been posting can have their chance to read through the game and post meaningful stuff instead of lurking this town to death.

[NicolBolas]

Wraith has pleaded RL, and Femm is being replaced.

That leaves:

Tasky
Hrez

Tasky is my first choice, but whichever wagon is longest is the one I'm on.

vote Tasky

this is why. read carefully

[NicolBolas]

@MOD- I go V/LA from around 10 PM tonight, to Monday.

I propose the active posters in this game give it a break for at least today, let the others reread.

[NicolBolas]

Here. Will post later tonight.

[NicolBolas]

This game is not friendly to me, who is actually trying to read this game and draw conclusions from it. I hereby dub this game the WWT. The War of the Walls of Text.

Archaebob, Foilist13- You two are at each other's throats. Seriously. The only thing i cannot understand why is why you both chose to build up your suspicions on each other to this point, before you started to launch text missiles at each other. I'm asking you both, are you arguing because you truly believe that you found mafia in the other, or because you dont want to lose the argument. If it's the latter, be a man, and admit it, and back down.

Somebody- You said you dont like me saying that maybe certain people should be less active. Look at what happened. Now pretty much only four people, not counting myself, is bothering to keep up with the game. Look at Moose, who threw in his towel. I believe that those two people's hyperactivity is quite damaging to this game.

Abob, Foil, If you two dont mind, please shut up and let the rest of the town get in a word edgewise. I'm sure that others here are brilliant scumhunters like you two, but please step aside, or at least post less WoTs. You two have said everything possible about eachother. You two are now restating your arugements. Stop, and let the town judge your words on their merit.
------------------------------------------------
What i dont like about Foilist-

His attacking me earlier in the day was full of crap. He keeps on parroting scumtells (IOA! IOA!) like they meant something. Newsflash- EVERYBODY HAS READ THE STANDARD SCUMTELL GUIDE- so it is not worth anything. The only thing that's worth something is the motive behind the posts themselves. I propose a new scumtell- anybody who recites "standard scumtells" and uses it as a basis for their whole case is scum. To prove this, we need to lynch Foil to find out if he is scum.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I dont like about Archaebob:

He proposes a contract where the town agrees to lynch Foil after lynching Archaebob. This is a very calucating gambit if Archaebob. Guess what? I thought of it first. When did i think of it? I was scum in a face to face mafia game. I was the last one left, aganist 8 townies. I proposed the deal day after day, which led to the town believing me so completely they was unwilling to take me up on that deal. I won. I believe that the "gambit" is a very scummy one to attempt.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What i dont like about both:

They both go after Wraith with a case built upon bullshit premises. I read Wraith as solidly town.

--------------------------------------

I'll request a

votecount please, mod

because it was drowned out by the WWT.

My vote will probably go on foilist, because it was him that i felt the most uneasy about so far.

preview edit: 5 walls popped up as i was writing this. see how it hurts the town? you two are scaring away the rest of the players.

[NicolBolas]

@ nicol - I completely believe that Wraith, Foilist, and Furcolow are scum. Honest to god truth, there's no ego involved here at all.

@ foil - I'm going to stfu for the next 48 hours. Can you agree to a truce?

1) All right. Foil?

2) Thank you. Foil- Please do agree.

[NicolBolas]

I do agree. We've drowned the thread enough, and even then I doubt people are going to talk about anyone but us.

At least it will be other people.

@EVERYONE- Now, what do you all think about this issue?

[NicolBolas]

I'm here. I think you're scum. Do a ISO of me, then you'll see what I think, then rebut if you want.

There was a Tracker claim by Moose

[NicolBolas]

@hrezs- I really disliked the basis for your vote on Wraith. Thats why I felt you were scum. About my vote for Wraith- I was frustrated with abob and foil's gung-ho attitude that they were exactly right.

Right now, after reading the chaos in this game: I want a Foilist lynch. I believe that Foil is more likely to be scum than abob. Also- I feel that it might be useful to keep abob around for one more day. boberz- we could take abob up on his deal, yes, but i think i would like to wait on that a bit.

Boberz- My request for them to shut up was very needed for this game. You may not think so, but i can see the other players disappear. This hurts the town, because without a plurality, we cannot lynch anybody. I was trying to bring them back. '

I'm gonna

vote Foil

[NicolBolas]

one page ago, actually.

[NicolBolas]

I would choose abob over foilist if I had to.

Why?

[NicolBolas]

------------------------------------------------
What i dont like about Foilist-

His attacking me earlier in the day was full of crap. He keeps on parroting scumtells (IOA! IOA!) like they meant something. Newsflash- EVERYBODY HAS READ THE STANDARD SCUMTELL GUIDE- so it is not worth anything. The only thing that's worth something is the motive behind the posts themselves. I propose a new scumtell- anybody who recites "standard scumtells" and uses it as a basis for their whole case is scum. To prove this, we need to lynch Foil to find out if he is scum.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I dont like about Archaebob:

He proposes a contract where the town agrees to lynch Foil after lynching Archaebob. This is a very calucating gambit if Archaebob. Guess what? I thought of it first. When did i think of it? I was scum in a face to face mafia game. I was the last one left, aganist 8 townies. I proposed the deal day after day, which led to the town believing me so completely they was unwilling to take me up on that deal. I won. I believe that the "gambit" is a very scummy one to attempt.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What i dont like about both:

They both go after Wraith with a case built upon bullshit premises. I read Wraith as solidly town.

--------------------------------------

I believe that what i see is worse for Foil than for abob.

[NicolBolas]

I wont be mad.

[NicolBolas]

To be honest- I do not believe Wraith is scum, but i feel that Foil is scum. I think it would be better to lynch Foil.

[NicolBolas]

I would prefer Foilist.

Content coming soon

[NicolBolas]

votecount please, mod

[NicolBolas]

A general question to all- Why are you voting arachebob is it because of the following?

A) He told you all to lynch him.
B) Because he is more scummy than Foilist.
C) Because you're scum.
E) A and B
F) A and C
D) All of the above.

Please indicate your reason.

How i read the game so far, most of you seem to be voting archaebob because he told you to.

I believe a Foilist lynch would serve the game better in several ways.

How it benefits us better than an archaebob lynch

A) We can hold archaebob accountable for Foilist's flip tomorrow.
B) We can look at the content of Foilist's posts to determine Foil's relationships with other people.
C) archaebob has been blasting away walls of text at Foilist, with pretty much only meta reads. He did not exactly set up any relationships with players other than Wraith and Furclow.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why i want Foilist lynched?

Insert archaebob-quality wall of text here

Seriously, though, I believe Foil is scum because of the way Foil accuses people. He has a unnatural curve of finding people slightly scummy, then more scummy, then voting that person for standard wiki scumtells. He did it on me, and the way that he did it was quite scummy in my eyes.

[NicolBolas]

A couple pages ago I believed foilist scummier than archaebob, but voted archaebob because his lynch was more likely (I believe and have believed for a while that both are scum). Recently, however, I have begun to see archaebob as even scummier than foilist.

What did archaebob do that made his scumminiess surpass Foilist's?

You believe that both of them are scum? Is it because both of them went after you while nuking each other with WoTs?

[NicolBolas]

Also, in your opinion- which would benefit the town more in case of a lynch? I think that the town will be better off with a Foil lynch than an abob lynch.

[NicolBolas]

But which one can lead to more information for the town?

[NicolBolas]

Then lynch Foil. It would be easier to lynch Foil than abob, if what you say is true.

[NicolBolas]

without your vote, both wagons are neck to neck, actually.

[NicolBolas]

Both, they're practically interchangeable. Most of us are certain foilist is scum, maybe half of us (or more, I dunno) are certain archaebob is scum. The only way to settle it is to flip both.

This is why i posted the response above.

I'm not sold on abob being scum, but i can really see Foil being scum. It's my opinion, though.

I believe i would be able get more information from Foil's flip than abob.

[NicolBolas]

Then lynch Foil. It would be easier to lynch Foil than abob, if what you say is true.

[NicolBolas]

most

arguments like that are town on town

Not all?

Clearly foilist/archaebob/nicolbolas scumteam is a possibility

Where in the blazes do you get a scumread on Nic?

This.

[NicolBolas]

I want to know why you find me scummy.

[NicolBolas]

I'm generally unhelpful in this game?

There's other players worse than me. Including you, really.

Also, I'm not blindly following Foilist's insanity. You might have not seen it, but i really want Foil lynched because I believe Foil is scum.

If you think i'm being unhelpful- please tell me, how can i be helpful, hmm?

[NicolBolas]

You are not making sense. I dont have scum partners.

And i AM voting Foil, who you think is on my scumteam, anyway.

[NicolBolas]

archaebob- I was hoping he actually had input. seems not.

[NicolBolas]

How come?

[NicolBolas]

Ah, I see. There's nothing i can say to that.

[NicolBolas]

Sorry everyone. I guess I'm not motivated to analyze this game heavily.

Honestly- I think after a new day comes, I'll be able to do better in this game.

boberz- You say that archaebob and Foilist is practically interchangeable. I disagree. I feel that archaebob is town and Foil is scum, based on their early D1 play, before they turned on each other. The reason why i feel Foil would give more information is because i am more sure he will flip scum, allowing us to look at his relationships with other players in this game more deeply, knowing his motivations. You may say that the same applies to abob, but i disagree. I guess what i'm trying to say here is that i have a gut read, and i'm trusting it for now.

[NicolBolas]

I accept that you do not have to follow my gut read, but here's the dilemma for me.

There is two people that people want to lynch. people think both is scum, while i think only one is scum. the one i think is town, more people want to lynch. Now, what should i do in this situation? I would argue that i stick to my beliefs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second, if you all want to get Foilist to L-1 for a claim, not because you want to lynch Foil, I vehemently disagree. The reason why i disagree is that every claim we have can just give information to scum. As of right now, we have two hardclaims, and one softclaim. Roleclaiming should be the last line of defense possible against lynching, when there's somebody who's willing to hammer if the claim is bad, not something automatically triggered upon L-1. What benefit would a claim give us? If Foil claims vanilla, nothing is gained from it, and if he claims a power role, scum benefits from it. Please show me a scenario where a unlynched claim would be helpful to us, on D1, especially.

[NicolBolas]

Don't get me wrong- I would switch my vote to the leading wagon in deadline situation.

[NicolBolas]

Boberz- this was one of fur's more intelligent posts so far. Don't discourage him.

[NicolBolas]

Moose, don't answer that. You'd just be telling scum whether or not they need to worry about roleblocking you.

I am currently on page 18, and NB keeps getting scummier and scummier the more I read. Tunnelling on a bunch of lurkers ... check. Incredibly fabricated sounding reaction to moose's claim (and a few other posts that do not come across as genuine) ... check. Cases of IIoA ... check. NB is scum, and I am certain enough about this that I don't even need to read the rest of the thread to put a vote down. If I get around to it, I'll do an iso read of him and list the offending posts specifically, but I don't have the time/not in the mood right now.

tunneling on a bunch of lurkers? I saw in FEMM's posts things I found scummy. I attacke d him for it. And then he disappeared. He never answered my attacks. I don't call that tunneling. And lurkers? There was only one player I did that to.

I was unhappy with the stupidness in the game. I was pissed off about how the other players pressured moose to claim... It may sound fabricated, but it wasn't.

Cases of IIOA? Please prove this. This makes me think you believe foil about that thing, which I find moronic. I don't see how it is iioa if I point out posts that I think is scummy and explain why.

Also, you do realize that it is nearing deadline?
------
What makes archaebob a better lynch target than foil?

[NicolBolas]

Moose- reasoning?

[NicolBolas]

That's all?

[NicolBolas]

Cay- that's what everyone has been assuming.

Wraith- Foil's cases on people are full of wiki scumtells. And his points isn't good at all.

[NicolBolas]

I'm voting foilist because i find him scummy.

[NicolBolas]

I'm quite unhappy with Fur too.

FUR- please replace out if you're town. What you are doing is harmful to the town. Your posting style is not very appreciated in this game. I personally think you are town. That's why i do not want to waste a policy lynch on you. I give you a choice: Replace out or be lynched. You'll see that it would help your faction more if you are to replace out. Thank you.

[NicolBolas]

I disagree with policy lynches.

Fur- I'm sorry, but if you want to have the town win this, please replace out.

I want Foil lynched today. I find Foil scummy and scumlynches are worth much more than policy lynches.

[NicolBolas]

Ugh. This game sucked for me... any feedback?

[NicolBolas]

NK whoebver will benefit you the most, and leave alive those that you can maniuplate.

[NicolBolas]

My general policy is to NK PRs first, lurkers second, annoying people third, and good scumhunters dead last.

Either you win or you lose. there is no degree of victory in my opinion.

For me, it would go PR-Scumhunters-lurkers-annonying people-stupid town.