Mini 1015 (GAME OVER - inquire within for results)

[Friend]

/confirm

Hey Dr.
Hey DH.
Hey NS.

I think that covers all the people I know in here, but hey people I don't know too.

Hopefully we can become...Friends.

[Friend]

You haven't noticed it in Mega Man Mafia, dr?

[Friend]

Yeah you really can't go wrong with a cat avatar.

Um, dr, what's the point of those questions?

[Friend]

1. Chocolate.
2. No.
3. Probably cake.

[Friend]

Marksmanship? That's cool.

[Friend]

Can we even vote?

If so,

vote: NS

I was

so

sure you were scum.

[Friend]

Vote: Nobody Special

Same reasons as before.

Uite, did you know you were wagoning when you placed the vote? If so, why did you feel that was the best course of action?

Thor, why so eager to start a wagon?

Dr, do you feel the players on your nascent wagon are suspicious?

Snarky, NS hasn't posted during the day yet, are you referencing something from the pregame chat?

[Friend]

FRIEND ITS TO EARLY IN THE GAME AND TO LATE A NITE FOR THIS, but yes yes very suspicious.

Why? Considering you go on to post this:

unvote
Vote: Enigma

because i like early wagons

Contradictions, man. Why'd you pick the Enigma wagon over others?

[Friend]

EBWOP: Why are they suspicious?

[Friend]

No, I don't have a problem with your wagon. I'm not on it because 4 votes seems like too much too soon. I'm fine with pressuring him though.

Dr: that's all you got?

[Friend]

No, no, my vote would be 4.

And there's nothing wrong with it.

unvote, vote: drmyshottyizsik

cause you got a point.

[Friend]

Friend is awesome

If you recall, I'm pretty sure esurio told you that in the queue, you should have known that coming in

[Friend]

Might as well vote you off now cbf having to ctrl c/v your name in the future.
Ohh that and your wiki is smurfpoo.

Seriously? At this stage of the game *that's* what you list as evidence to support his lynch?

I second Uite's comments, any lynch prior to getting willow (and I guess whoever the second person is, somebody who confirmed and hasn't come back I suppose) commenting will be a lynch that is full of fail.

drmyshottizsik and Enigma are the top of my scum list right now. Enigma gains this hallowed rank by what is quite possibly trying to hop on a VI wagon with a weak as toilet paper set of reasons. That's a RVS vote - you don't RVS vote in as the 5th guy on a wagon - it doesn't work like that.

Thor <3

Seriously, though, I was totally gonna post this and then Thor had to come in and be all logical. Stealing my thunder!

[Friend]

Enigma's post feels somewhat OMGUS motivated. You act so defensive about your RVS vote, like we aren't allowed to find it scummy. That's not okay. it's the RVS and Thor didn't want a lynch. But you put dr at L-2 without referencing his scummy play, which we found scummy.

Then you proceed to find me and Thor scummy for I don't know what, I guess some admitted buddying on my part but it wasn't serious, I was trying to be Friendly.

unvote, vote: Enigma

[Friend]

However, I'm not voting for shotty. I don't feel anyone at this point deserves a vote and I'm pretty sure we're out of RVS now with the last...say well this page

Willows, why are you so cautious with your vote?
Has anyone played any games with him - is he usually cautious as town?

[Friend]

@Eldarad: I'm not sure if what you're saying is entirely accurate. I asked him if he knew he was wagoning shotty, he said no. It didn't seem jumpy to me, although I can see how he was distancing himself from the wagon.

[Friend]

However, I'm not voting for shotty. I don't feel anyone at this point deserves a vote and I'm pretty sure we're out of RVS now with the last...say well this page

Willows, why are you so cautious with your vote?
Has anyone played any games with him - is he usually cautious as town?

I.... can't. Dammit. But thank you for bringing this up.

Wait what? Ongoing game?

[Friend]

Okay. I'll say no more.

I'm still concerned with Enigma. The dr wagon does seem a little too easy.

[Friend]

Seth's vote felt way too opportunistic.

fos seth

[Friend]

Huh? By voting for someone you're saying that you think they're scum. Do you not think shotty's scum?

unvote, vote seth

[Friend]

I don't get it.
Dr's vote wasn't a joke.

[Friend]

No, I don't get the joke.

Also, your interpretation up there was correct.

I understand that you provided reasoning but it wasn't enough. Hence the opportunistic vibes.

[Friend]

Yeah, it sounds like your voting me more based on my timing than anything else. I think my reasoning is good enough to vote on mislynch. What do you think of jmurph?

My vote on you isn't entirely based on timing - it's that you hopped on a VI wagon and provided weak reasoning for doing so.

What do you mean by vote on mislynch?

I don't find jmurph scummy.

[Friend]

seth, your case on me is purely OMGUS the way I see it.

Saying "his reasoning on Uite is weak" is weak because he's done so much more than that and he's proven himself to be somewhat of a VI. You should expect weak reasoning. It just seems like you were seeking out a reason to jump on the wagon without blatantly doing so.

And no, I don't find jmurph scummy and I'm not quite sure why you do either. Funny how your two scums are the two people voting for you, huh?

[Friend]

Eh. Friend you're ignoring Jmurph which is why I think you're scum. Don't try and pass it off as an OMGUS because it isn't. I didn't like Shotty's reasoning on Uite which is why I voted him, I don't care if you think that's me looking for an excuse to bandwagon because I wasn't and I doubt you'll change your mind. If I wanted to OMGUS you, I would've done so instantly after you didn't understand my joke. I explicitly said in post 152 why Jmurph is scum, funny how you ignored that once again huh?

I didn't ignore it. I disagree with you. There's a fairly big difference, and disagreeing with you is not a scumtell. You still haven't explained why you think I'm scum other than that I think Jmurph is town.

I think I have a fairly solid case. Friend votes me off of a joke. I explain the joke.

Still didn't get the joke, by the way, can you explain?

[Friend]

So everyone who thinks Jmurph is town (disagrees with you) is therefore scum? Come on now.

Thor, what do you think about seth's play? I haven't heard your opinion.

Seth, what is funny about Uite's post? He gets suspicious of you in it?

[Friend]

Because all the players that have suspected you, you also conveniently find scummy.

[Friend]

I'll consider that you may be town if you stop acting so scummily. Answer my question about Uite.

[Friend]

Sorry, didn't catch that Thor. :/
It was lost amidst a sea of text.

[Friend]

I don't think it's a scum tell. Like Thor said, I don't see the scum motivation - it's not like he's pointing out a pro-town player and saying "ooh vig kill him."

[Friend]

Oh. I didn't even consider that an answer, it's so poor.

1. You didn't explain the joke.

2. You didn't "claim" mafia but your words looked like you kind of did. I can see where he got the impression.

3. He's new-ish, and he's said that this is his first mini normal. Explains the MYLO thing.

4. Because you don't think you're scummy doesn't mean other people don't. I think you're either scum or a VI too.

[Friend]

Your answers are seriously "K?"

And I have a sense of humor, okay. I don't get your joke, now explain it.

[Friend]

I'm not meaning to buddy with Thor - I think someone asked about the whole vig situation so I gave my thoughts.

I think I get why I didn't get the joke - the joke is that "I think he's mafia lol" is a bad reason to vote?

@Thor: Enigma's was more...I'm not sure. RVS-y? I find Enigma's vote back there scummy, but Seth's seemed like he was putting on a facade of scumhunting whereas Enigma was blatantly not scumhunting and using RVS reasons. The first is scummier IMO.

[Friend]

@Willows: that wasn't why I voted him. His reasonings for voting shotty were way opportunistic and it felt to me like he was looking for an excuse to vote shotty. The "slip" (which I don't necessarily consider a slip) came later, as did the hardcore OMGUS.

[Friend]

Okay, I'm here - I changed my email and it made me reactivate :/

Let me read and post.

[Friend]

About Shotty. A lot of you have gone from accusing Shotty to accusing seth, but I don't really get why. From what I can see, it's because Shotty is a VI (or Jellybeans), while seth is more scummy. To me, seth looks more like an overreacting newbie, and his recent posts have become a bit

antagonistic

, but it still doesn't go either way. I don't know, he does seem to be trying. From Shotty however, while he is Jellybeans, I haven't seen any pro-town play yet, which is why I suspect him over seth.

That said, there are other people to look into though. I agree that Enigma made a suspicous move by using a, shall we say,

sub-par

reason to vote Shotty. Eldarad has been somewhat bare-bones in his responses, and I'd like to see him fleshing out his opinions more. I'm a bit strapped for time right now, so i'll look into it in a later post.

Jellybeans don't play in a pro-town fashion - that's what makes them, well, jellybeans.

is it scummy that I want to get rid of VI's, whom which I believe is scum to boot?

In this case, yes. You haven't shown why his play is more scummy than VI, which is the main problem I have with the vote.

I still think that you don't have a sense of humor.

Come on, I didn't get your joke and you go and insult me like that

Seth's last post actually showed some townitude although it doesn't make up for his previous scummy actions, yet. I still think he's the best lynch for today by a good margin.

[Friend]

Nah.

When you made your original Shotty vote, people called you out on it. You quickly switched over to jmurph and now you're not voting anyone, even shotty. Why isn't your vote on your top suspect?

[Friend]

Whoa, seth's getting out of control.

[Friend]

You just seem overdefensive. Even about the overdefensiveness.

And NS, I know you're not always right either
Then again, I was wrong too, soo....

[Friend]

I don't think a FoS on NS would be unwarranted, actually. Although I've been wrong about his scumminess before so I wouldn't trust me. If you flip town I'd look hard at NS.

[Friend]

A link to tvtropes takes an hour out of my day.

[Friend]

See, NS, this is why asking seth to explain his suspicions was useless. Didn't you know that's all you would get?

[Friend]

On a scale of 1-10, ~7.5. That's only because your recent posts feel somewhat town - frustrated, overdefensive town, but town nevertheless.

[Friend]

NS, maybe. DH, no.

There's other players I'd feel better about wagoning, too - Enigma, for instance.

[Friend]

DH is not high on my scumlist. He's right in the middle.

Yes, I'd feel okay about lynching Enigma today.

[Friend]

What's your case against DH?

[Friend]

Seems to me like he only really bandwagoned when he wanted to lynch you. I can see the lack of active scumhunting though.

[Friend]

PMS? LOL.

I find DH somewhat scummy but not as scummy as other players in the game. If a wagon takes off, I wouldn't try to diffuse it, but I feel like there are other players that deserve the noose over DH.

[Friend]

unvote, vote: Enigma

I'm not going to tolerate his lurking or his previous scummy behavior.

Looking over seth's responses again, I can't help but get a sort of gut town feeling from them.

DH's scumlist is a joke and seems forced, like he noticed people calling him out for a lack of scumhunting.

@Uite: Posting townlists isn't anti-town or scummy inherently.

[Friend]

Scum knows who the most pro-town players are. If you think they don't, you don't know what you're talking about.

DH, you call Snarky out for lurking and wagoning, but earlier you gave Enigma a null-tell, despite his lurking and wagoning, and put him in your neutral list. What's the difference?

[Friend]

It's a fairly big stretch, NS.

[Friend]

Not sure what to make of that case up there. Your random vote

was

scummy, you're just going to have to accept that. A lot of the points seem minor but when you combine them altogether it's not bad.

[Friend]

So, DH, your case on me is that I've been lurking. Like Friend said (Why are you defending me?) I have posted once in a day. It can seem that I did not post a lot because everyone was posting like so much, but a lot of these posts have little content.

I didn't say that or defend you. I was pushing for Enigma's scumminess, not your townieness.

[Friend]

I am also not on your list.

[Friend]

Friend:
Something about you turns me off a bit. It's in how you respond. It's like...you respond to every little thing that any/everyone says...I guess like you're always on guard. That's not quite defensiveness though. Being guarded worries me. I expect town to be very chill unless directly implicated or where there are big things to be passionate about. This leaves me with 3 different thoughts about you.

I do this. Check my other games (both as town) and you'll see I am kind of always on guard.

[Friend]

That's just flat-out not true.

In other news, I can see NS's comment coming from town or scum. I don't think it's necessarily a "scumslip."

[Friend]

@Snarky: The problem with your "case" is that you're using confirmation bias. You have a preconceived notion of me being scum and then you twist my posts to make them fit that notion. You can do that with literally ANY post, here:

Snarky iso 11: Makes a case against Friend, trying to gain some "town points", probably thinks he can get a mislynch

You see?

You're throwing in these things like "OMG WAGONING" (which btw is not a scumtell) and you don't show why they're specifically scummy, just say "here's what scum would be thinking if he was doing these things." Why is my vote on seth opportunistic? Why is saying "wagoning" scummy? Why is saying "That's flat-out not true" to jmurph scummy when what he accused me of was blatantly a lie?

Not sure what to make of that case up there. Your random vote was scummy, you're just going to have to accept that. A lot of the points seem minor but when you combine them altogether it's not bad.

This is exactly what I hoped you to say. Now we can delve into the earlier subject of how you two were buddying up together.
What do you think about Thor now? And so you still agree you guys share similar minded thoughts?

I'm still waiting to see how you answer this.
Also curious as to why you haven't answered it either. Please do explain.
Since you are purposely avoiding the question when you have answered every other, I hope this gives you some encouragement,
VOTE: Friend

I didn't see the question, sorry. I think Thor is probably town, and our playstyles do seem similar.

[Friend]

I don't find NS's gender comment particularly scummy. I think it's a moot point.

[Friend]

Disagree about shotty. In an ongoing game (yeah yeah I know) he played similarly to the way he's playing now and flipped town.

[Friend]

I've read a scum game of dr's; it was different.

[Friend]

Is it completed? (Please say yes. I honestly don't have the time this week for a scavenger hunt.)

Don't think so :/

It was a newbie game, he got lynched D1.

[Friend]

The thing that's bothering me here is that the top two wagons are on town. Enigma is blatantly lurking (he comes in to say the VC is incorrect and nothing else) and you're arguing over stupid things.

[Friend]

I'm talking to the entire town. Yes, I think NS is town, at least for the day. He's definitely not the scummiest player. NS and eldarad (among others) are arguing over stuff like the gender scumteam comment which feels completely town-on-town.

[Friend]

Of course

[Friend]

Also, why do you have an issue with NS's pushing of the shotty lynch, but not willows's?

[Friend]

I seriously think shotty is town. I am not supporting his lynch today.

[Friend]

NS, Shotty's no lynch vote sure as hell isn't pro-town, but it sure as hell isn't scummy either. It's not very smart and it adds to his jellybean-ness, but it's just a further extension of his jellybean-like play. It's not scummy - stupid, yes.

[Friend]

Ongoing game where he flipped town + gut. I mean, you're acting like voting NL is the biggest scumtell of the century when you see it all the time in newbie games from both alignments.

[Friend]

NEWSFLASH: Shotty should probably be in a newbie game. What is the difference between shotty's VI play and his scum play?

[Friend]

I probably phrased it wrong - I didn't mean to bring up meta. I meant "what differentiates shotty's play from that of a normal VI?" If you kind of see what I'm trying to say.

I'm defending him cause I don't want a mislynch. Isn't that obvious?

[Friend]

There's a difference between shotty and Seth. Also, I've played games with shotty where he has acted exactly te same as he is right now and he flipped town. He's making an effort to scumhunt - it's poor, but it's there.

[Friend]

Seth is probably town too.

[Friend]

NS, what is your case on eldarad, independent of interactions with shotty?

[Friend]

Well shotty's not scum so you're wasting your time.

[Friend]

@NS: What foilist said.

I've read a game where shotty was VI-scum: it was some sort of newbie game. He played differently. I don't want to get into an argument with you because there's no concrete evidence of shotty being blatantly town - it's just a gut feeling based on meta. I know I'm not going to convince you, but I'm not lending any sort of support to a shotty lynch.

[Friend]

I think my vote's still on Enigma. I've made my case and I still think he's scummy. I'd support a Uite lynch also.

Seth, stop now, shotty's town and you're just being obnoxious.

[Friend]

You guys, we need to get this town on the right path. Arguing about shotty is getting us nowhere closer to a lynch. Let me concisely lay out my case on Enigma once more:

• Like others have said, hopping on the shotty RVS wagon with a purely random vote - it looked like he wanted to wagon without blatantly wagoning, if you catch my drift.
  
  Votes me for buddying up to Thor, which is only suspicious if Thor flips scum. I ran into trouble with this in another game, but my thoughts on it are that buddying without a flip is not a scumtell at all. It's the same thing NS is trying to pull with eldarad and shotty, but it just makes no sense.
  
  Promises posts about DH, me, Uite, never delivers. Made a long wallpost about Thor that led nowhere.
  
  Then revotes me for missing his question, which I missed because he never specifically asked it to me. He didn't put the name in the quote tags and I skimmed it over - there was no way of telling it was my quote and I didn't see it. I then answer his question and he says nothing.
  
  Has enough time to pop in and say "vote count is incorrect" but not make a quality post? Come on - that's the definition of active lurking.

Anyways, we need to regain our focus, start a solid wagon on someone (Enigma) and pressure them. Otherwise we're going to hit deadline and have no idea what to do and probably end up lynching shotty (who's probably town). Let's go.

[Friend]

foilist can you kind of sum up your case on Uite? All I see is your back-and-forth and I'm not really sure what the point is.

[Friend]

Enigma, early game play is great for finding scumtells.

I'm still not quite sure what your case on me is aside from the buddying, though (which is definitely NOT all I've been doing). Can you elaborate more?

Also, how was my response to Sharky poor? It's a terrible (and scummy) way to make a case, looking at posts thinking in your mind that this person is already 100% scum.

[Friend]

First, I never said eldarad or NS was town.

*But combine that with who you choose to buddy with (the most pro town player at the time, where you just posted I agree with what you say instead of offering similar minded discussions so others can get a read on you)

That's not all I did. I've posted something and Thor said "I agree with Friend" or something along those lines. We have a similar thought process. That doesn't constitute buddying. I've offered my own thoughts towards this game, and not just tunneled on you, as a matter of fact.

*Add to the mix a very little effort at scum hunting (tunneling one person for the entire game: that's me!) and not posting anything else but fluff and this person is town that person is town (not very useful since you are probably just as clueless as the rest of the majority, actually probably not since I figure you for scum)

Sure, I'm slightly tunneling now but that's cause you're scum and I've caught you and I don't want you to get away by focusing on other, less scummy, players. That accusation of yours is a subtle way of deflecting suspicion off you onto others.

*A lack of commitment when answering questions directed with you (a one line answer isn't the basis for much discussion, something necessary for town, something scum want to avoid).

I don't like giving long, detailed responses to questions that don't need it. Brevity is not a scumtell.

If you were really town, you would be more concerned about scum hunting and encouraging discussion on the issue of scum hunting rather than going around saying so and so are town. It's far more beneficial for town to be advocating a lynch on scum than to be trying to prevent a mislynch.

That's not true. Finding towntells and using PoE is a great way to scumhunt.

And I'm not saying everyone should take my word as gospel. It's just that I'm really quite sure shotty and seth are both town and arguing about lynching jellybeans who I think are town is bad. Jellybean wagons are sooo easy for scum to push and I don't want that when I'm confident our two jellybeans are town, ya know?

[Friend]

eldarad, thoughts on me vs. Enigma?

[Friend]

No, eldarad, I'd really prefer it if you gave your thoughts about me vs. enigma now if you would. It's not really beneficial to keep talking about NS/shotty/you, like you said, and we need to start discussing me or Enigma.

[Friend]

Okay, so, eldarad, let me get this straight.

1. You think a shotty lynch is bad. You defend shotty, yada yada yada.

2. NS calls you out for defending shotty because he thinks you're his scumbuddy.

3. You flip flop and decide you want to lynch shotty because...it would implicate NS? Cause you think he's bussing? In that case, why not try to lynch NS?

That's weak.

FoS eldarad

[Friend]

I made a damn case on seth, I just talked about eldarad...jesus, Enigma, you're misrepping me completely.

[Friend]

I'm talking about you saying I only talked about you being scummy.

I don't get the foilist wagon, particularly. That's why I haven't said anything.

[Friend]

I was the first person to make a case on Seth, mate. I made multiple points against you.

Look this is getting frustrating - it's like talking to a brick wall. I don't know what your vendetta against me is, I don't still fully understand what you have against me apart from "buddying" and I'm done with the whole thing. We need some outside opinions on this.

[Friend]

Uite, take a side. That post was useless.

[Friend]

@Mod: I'm V/LA until Tuesday. Going to San Fransisco for a sweet music festival. Sorry about that.

[Friend]

LOL didn't mean to make a quote, I was c/p-ing from another game -_-

[Friend]

Yo bob.

Look, I'm being really lazy this game. I shouldn't be and I apologize.

Also, if you'd like me to claim now, I can claim so you won't wagon me and not have me around for claiming at deadline.

[Friend]

Esurio, can't tell if you caught my VLA. You didn't put it in the votecount.

I missed it 'cause it was quoted. Got it now.

[Friend]

Hey, I'm back!

Just to clarify, I do understand most of the post, but I don't get why it is addressed to Bob specifically... Why does he apologizes to him to be lazy? Why does he ask him instead of the whole town if he should claim?

It was addressed to the town, at the least the last two lines. Sorry for the confusion, I reread it and see where you could have gotten lost. The second/third lines were separate from the first, the first was just a "welcome to the game" type post.

Anyways, the foilist wagon I STILL can't get, and I really do think seth is town.

@Mod: Can we get a votecount?

I could join a Uite wagon, but the best move is to lynch Enigma, IMO. We need to make up our minds.

[Friend]

Nah, foilist, you can vote enigma. We can still lynch scum today.

[Friend]

Then switch now. We don't have much time.

[Friend]

I am almost positive one of foilist/Enigma is an SK.

Lynch Enigma and if he flips town, the town can lynch foilist tomorrow. This makes a nice dichotomy and I feel that whoever we lynch today is okay.

[Friend]

Being at L-1 =/= scummy

You == scummy

[Friend]

OH NO I CAN'T SCUMHUNT ONCE ENIGMA GETS LYNCHED WHATEVER AM I GOING TO DO

Jesus, man, I can read up on interactions with you and others after your flip.

[Friend]

The attempted quickhammer by Enigma I found scummy, and I have secret reasons to believe that he may be lying about the claim.

Foilist is almost confirmed town to me, but I've seen him bus hard before (ESURIO ARGH) so he's not 100% cleared.

I still think seth is town, deep down in my gut.

Reading back overnight I found jmurph scummy so I'll throw a vote down. If I look back and change my mind I'll unvote but yeah. Let me re-reread and I'll try and make a case.

vote: jmurph

[Friend]

I didn't like seth's post either, but that doesn't mean I don't think he's town.

jmurph defended Uite quite a bit, actually. Said his play was consistent with his town meta and said he didn't want to lynch him at deadline. Chainsaw defence'd Foilist. Slight buddying with Uite here:

Firstly, as Uite pointed out:

Uite wrote:
About DemonHybrid...He does make one major mistake:

@DemonHybrid: You should know by know that you shouldnt post scumlists like that. They're like shopping lists for scum, making their night decisions a lot easier.


This is very true. IMO, scumlists help scum much more than they help town. I don't like 'em.

Funny how the scum was against town/scum lists, eh?

She lurks, even though she "blamed" it on work.

I feel like Friend has been hopping on to what everyone else has been saying, and though people have hinted that they see this as buddying with one person or another, I'm not a fan of Friend for it. vote: Friend.

This was a blatant lie, as I said after the vote was case, and she never even talked about it after I brought it up.

Yeah, it's mostly based on the chainsaw against Foilist and the complete lack of interaction/questioning towards Uite.

[Friend]

dr, I think it won't count unless you say vote: jmurph.

[Friend]

If you are roleblocked, the shot still is used up?

[Friend]

It's considered poor modding practice to make a game winnable for scum on N2, no? Assuming two town mislynches only?

[Friend]

Yeah, the mod designed the setup.

[Friend]

...Furcolow.



Well, I'm positively positive one of foilist/Orochi is lying about the claim. I'd rather lynch Orochi than foilist for sure, but jmurph is scummy to and I'll give her a chance to respond to the accusations against her.

[Friend]

Sigh.

Scumlist:

jmurph
Orochi
Snarky

[Friend]

It's not OMGUS if the cases people made on you were shitty. If you (they) had made a similar case on anyone else I would have called them out for it too. You're abusing the term.

[Friend]

And in what ways are they shitty? You never defended yourself out of these cases.

Sigh. I have.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the chainsaw against Foilist. Can you point out where this was/what exactly you mean by this?

Chainsaw defense = defending a player by attacking that player's attacker. Which you did against foilist.

Secondly, I only commented on Uite's play once.

Exactly the point, my friend.

Why do I merit a vote and not them?

OH NO WHY MEEEEE?!?!?!?

It's cause you're scum.

[Friend]

I know one of Orochi/foilist is lying but they can wait, trust me on this. Jmurph for now and we figure it out tomorrow.

[Friend]

No, it really does matter. Jmurph today.

[Friend]

Eldarad...you're saying "Enigma is scum! Vote: Furc?"

the fuck?

[Friend]

Okay.

[Friend]

Orochi: Vig foilist tomorrow. If you don't, we will lynch you.

[Friend]

Jmurph.

[Friend]

Actually lynching Orochi is fine too now that I think about it.

unvote vote: Orochi

[Friend]

PoE between foilist and Orochi.

[Friend]

Process of elimination.

[Friend]

L-2 is good. One of foilist/Orochi is 100% scum.

[Friend]

I'll tell you later foilist.

[Friend]

I promise I will tomorow. For now just sheep.

[Friend]

@Thor: Well, despite the fact that I'm glad that everyone's not just jumping on me anymore, let me start by saying that I'm not comfortable with the way the Orochi wagon has all of a sudden sprung up. I'm fine with the pressure on him, and think that he should post more, but the way that it's sprung up seems very suspicious to me. I definitely don't see any reason to bring him to L-1 at this point.

AKA "I don't want to completely push against my scumbuddy's wagon, but I don't want to bus either after Uite got lynched"

[Friend]

So I'm definite scum to you? Where's your vote.

[Friend]

If I am "definite scum" you should be pushing a whole hell of a lot harder. Those are some strong words.

[Friend]

Okay well this was my plan and I think it's good.

I am an even night vig. My shot goes through if scum kills me so whatever. I shoot Orochi, orochi shoots foilist, we lynch jmurph. I guarantee one scum out of those three and we're set for D3.

Thoughts?

[Friend]

What are the flaws of my proposed plan?

[Friend]

You really think if I was an SK I would claim EVEN NIGHT VIG when not shooting every night is a complete detriment to my wincon?

Also, claiming vig is the STUPIDEST thing an SK can do.

[Friend]

Foilist, you do realize that claiming vig as scum is really a stupid play, correct? You trying to get me lynched after my plan was for Orochi to vig you seems scummy. If you really were a VT you wouldn't care that much.

vote: Foilist

. Orochi can pick someone else to vig.

[Friend]

FOILIST. DID YOU SEE WHERE I CLAIMED VIG.

CLAIMING VIG AS SCUM IS LITERALLY

[REDACTED]

.

but fuck it, your shameless AtE works this time. I'm not scum though.

unvote vote: jmurph

This wagon needs to recover and pull through.

[Friend]

Sorry esurio my bad

[Friend]

Foilist, foilist, foilist. Have you not yet realized that after I shoot tomorrow, I'm essentially confirmed town? Why do you keep pushing for me to be shot?

[Friend]

Damn jmurph wagon's dying on me.

unvote, vote: Snarky

[Friend]

Nah. Foilist is (probably) town. Orochi...I'm vigging Orochi tonight remember?

[Friend]

Change jmurph to snarky and you're golden.

[Friend]

Defended Uite (heavily). Tunneled on me/foilist both days.

[Friend]

Well then I'll get NK'd.

[Friend]

What's your night plan Snarky?

[Friend]

Do it.

[Friend]

what

[Friend]

furcolow I'm seriously considering vigging you btw so you better explain yourself

[Friend]

the fuck?

[Friend]

...

Okay. Whatever.

[Friend]

LOL.

I said you didn't have to explain yourself.

[Friend]

I...got roleblocked. Should've seen it coming. I tried to vig jmurph FWIW.

[Friend]

Orochi, why didn't you shoot?

MS: Yes.

vote: jmurph3

[Friend]

Note my question to Orochi. I'm starting to become slightly suspicious.

[Friend]

I've made myself clear on the jmurph. I'm more than slightly suspicious of orochi's nokill but I'll wait and see if there's a suitable explanation.

[Friend]

Already answered that eldarad.

About the snarky wagon, I bet one or both was on it. Of those on the wagon, I can definitely see foilist, Furcolow, and MS (to a lesser extent) as scum in that order.

Then again my vote is on jmurph, so I'll stick with "one scum was on the wagon."

[Friend]

Are you talking about me?

[Friend]

I already told you I got roleblocked, remember?

[Friend]

He did not shoot at any of the people he suggested he would though

I was referring to this.

That last statement of yours is scummy - you're saying that my claim to have been roleblocked is scummy, but you did the very same thing yourself.

[Friend]

I changed my mind. I figured that if Orochi was indeed telling the truth, we would find out today. No use shooting someone who could have confirmed themselves as town overnight. But, due to the lack of shot, I'm highly suspicious. The one thing that's got me worried is that claiming one-shot vig as scum is an odd move to make, IMO.

[Friend]

I'm going to hold off on an Orochi vote until a replacement shows up. I'm very interested to hear what they have to say.

[Friend]

Hoopla...you've got some 'splainin to do!

[Friend]

Well, that does make a whole lot more sense, I suppose. Even night and one shot seemed like a strange combination. However, I find it strange that Orochi didn't realize this error either. One person overlooking it I can see, but two?

However, I do see your point about the timing of the claim and agree that a 1 for 1 there would be strange as scum. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for now, although you'll probably be roleblocked tonight and therefore unconfirmable.

[Friend]

Hm. That theory makes sense, and the updated claim certainly explains last night's lack of shot. Like I said, the timing of the claim makes the least sense if you were indeed scum - if you're going to claim a PR, why claim vig when like you said, it's essentially suicide?And why counterclaim to save your buddy's ass when bussing him at that point would probably be the best thing to do. That's why I ended up not trying to kill Orochi last night, as I thought with foilist's fakeclaim that slot was most likely town.

I'm very interested to hear your scumpicks, anyways.

MS: So, "eh" is all you have to say?

[Friend]

I believe it was me, yes. I'm on my iPod so looking up the quote will be a pain, but in a newbie game I was in (Newbie 977, the link's in my wiki) he bussed his scumbuddy (esurio, funnily enough) hard and eventually that sealed the win for the scumteam - after foilist flipped scum D3 esurio came off as basically confirmed town in LyLo. I'm sure he could be pulling a similar tactic this game.

[Friend]

Oh and MS - maybe comment on the Snarky wagon and flip, reasons why you think foilist is scum, etc.?

Hoopla - no, mainly because she claimed cop and ended up getting him lynched, though.

Pdit : ninja'd.

[Friend]

"Sits wrong?"

[Friend]

Friend- Good over all Pro-Town play. His claim of Odd night vig sets in the deal somewhat now,what with an even vig claim from hoopla.

Other way around, by the way. I'm even, she's odd.

You know what, Hoopla, I'll do it. I understand your case, although earlier I was fairly convinced seth was VI-town due to his responses. We wagoned him for a reason though, maybe that initial read was wrong.

unvote, vote: Midnight's Sorrow

Friend, can you tell why you claimed when you did? It seems like a suboptimal move.

At the time, we had two one-shot vig claims. I knew I was a vig. That mix of roles seemed extremely unbalanced - I brought it up saying something along the lines of "isn't it bad modding to have a game be able to be scumwinnable by the end of N2?" as that would be the situation with the combination of vigs we had. I wanted to force the town into lynching one of the two - foilist or Orochi - because I thought with the claims one of the two had to be scum, and I could either vig the other or town could lynch the other if we did wrong. Additionally, I was coming under some heat from Snarky, etc. and kind of wanted to save my ass a little.

[Friend]

About Shotty. A lot of you have gone from accusing Shotty to accusing seth, but I don't really get why. From what I can see, it's because Shotty is a VI (or Jellybeans), while seth is more scummy. To me, seth looks more like an overreacting newbie, and his recent posts have become a bit

antagonistic

, but it still doesn't go either way. I don't know, he does seem to be trying. From Shotty however, while he is Jellybeans, I haven't seen any pro-town play yet, which is why I suspect him over seth.

A nice Uite quote about seth, by the way.

On a scale of 1-10, ~7.5. That's only because your recent posts feel somewhat town - frustrated, overdefensive town, but town nevertheless.

Looking over seth's responses again, I can't help but get a sort of gut town feeling from them.

I found these quotes in my ISO - seems to me like it was mostly gut, nothing really concrete.

[Friend]

MS's responses to these Furc posts are more scummy arrogance and less actual logic/good town behavior.

[Friend]

...

[Friend]

YOU WANT A DAMN CASE? HERE'S YOUR CASE.

Okay, I'm tired as hell, and have read all the pages(not sure if I have everything that I read kosher with my brain atm...>.>)

Not likeing the 3 vig claims, no matter what kinds have been claimed, 3 is a bit much....

I'm completely willing to hammer, and have no qualms in doing so, Snarky if this is what's needed, as he has come off scummy in my reading. He

did

in fact defend Uite a bit much, and I'm not really liking his 'cases'.

Note bolded. This is immediately after replacing, noticing largest wagon, etc.

Scum- Furcolow, foilist13

Furcolow- Out of all the snarky band wagoners,

I dislike his vote the most.

It sounded too opportunistic.

Note bolded. This implies that all the snarky wagon votes were weak and that the lynch was undeserved. But yet you were completely adamant about Snarky being scum, and were "completely willing to hammer," and eventually did. I'm not saying you're scummy for hammering - I'm saying you're scummy because you're calling Furc scummy for placing an "opportunistic" (explain that, by the way) vote on a wagon that you previously 100% supported.

Oh and then the next dozen posts after that are "there's no case guyz, I don't know what to say lulz."

[Friend]

Post #0 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:15 am
Post #1 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:34 am

3 HOURS. NOT 5.

Furcolow's vote was subpar, sure. BUT you should know that by now - meta, etc.

Why paint something black when its as innocent as can be?

This is a scummy comment. It's not up to you to decide what's innocent or not.

Well there wasn't. All I got was something about my predecessor. Something in which I had no power to defend against. So yeah, there wasn't. Sorry to burst your bubble there

Again, it's more "LOL NO CASE" and less ACTING PRO-TOWN.

[Friend]

Sigh, Hoopla. Note that I specifically said:

I'm not saying you're scummy for hammering - I'm saying you're scummy because you're calling Furc scummy for placing an "opportunistic" (explain that, by the way) vote on a wagon that you previously 100% supported.

This lack of attention to the thread is slightly disconcerting.

[Friend]

Jailkeeper is an easy claim for a scum roleblocker to make. I don't quite buy it.

[Friend]

Well having both a mafia roleblocker and a town jailkeeper seems off to me, personally. I'm entirely in favor of a massclaim.

[Friend]

Whoa, a lot happened here. Let me see what's up.

[Friend]

MS, you don't claim targets during a massclaim! But its OK as I can confirm jmurph.

Night 1 - tracked jmurph. She did nothing.
Night 2 - tracked Thor. He did nothing.

Both actions went through successfully. (Which makes me believe foilist's VT claim given his #888. I'm a bit surprised that Friend didn't pick up on it at the time.)

I tracked jmurph because I got some scum vibes from her Day 1. I tracked Thor because he wasn't going to get scrutinised any other way. I avoided tracking any claimed vigs because, well, whats the point? If I track a claimed vig to a dead body it proves nothing except that they have a killing ability which they already proved in the Night message.

Assuming that MS is either a jailkeeper or a scum RB, jmurph cannot be scum.
If MS is a jailkeeper, then there has to be a scum RB so jmurph would have to have made a night action on N1 (either to kill or RB).
If MS is a scum RB, then jmurph would have had to perform a kill on N1.

So jmurph is confirmed town.

Sigh, I can't really find any holes in that. Guess my other main scumread was off.

Furc's reasoning for voting Hoopla is strange and not justified in any way, but that's Furc for ya. An odd night/even night vig combo is basically 1 normal vig, like eldarad said.

I also find it odd Friend didn't pick up on that. He says he is a power role, he should get a message saying his action went through.

Can you clarify on this? I got a message from the mod saying "Oh no! You were roleblocked!" or something along those lines. My action didn't go through.

I...got roleblocked. Should've seen it coming. I tried to vig jmurph FWIW.

@Friend

Just curious. But were you

told

you were roleblocked?

MS: Yes.

You don't get told you've been roleblocked...you just get told your action didn't go through...that could mean anything.

HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED WITH THIS MOD BEFORE!? NO. YOU HAVEN'T. YOU CAN'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS BASED ON GENERAL SITE META WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH A SPECIFIC MOD/GAME HERE.

I'm not an idiot, MS. I know how things work around here - I know it's common to just say "your action didn't go through" etc. But the fact that I'm sticking by what I said should be even more proof that what I said happened actually happened. Throwing that out there is extremely, extremely scummy. I'm almost positive MS is scum RB now.

The hammer needs to be dropped.

[Friend]

Eldarad, the thing is lynching MS today and dealing with Hoopla after the flip is really the best plan of attack here. I don't think Hoopla-scum is totally out of the question but lynching MS is BY FAR the better play.

[Friend]

Eldarad, the thing is lynching MS today and dealing with Hoopla after the flip is really the best plan of attack here. I don't think Hoopla-scum is totally out of the question but lynching MS is BY FAR the better play.

friend also pushing "lynch the protective role" with hoopla

crazy if they're town
they're obviously a scum team

What makes you so sure MS is telling the truth? Why is the scumteam "obviously" me or Hoopla?

[Friend]

me *and Hoopla, EBWOP

[Friend]

What makes you so sure MS is telling the truth?

Answer this, please.

Furc, if that scenario occurs mafia would almost definitely no-kill to frame me, and town would have to sort out the WIFOM. It's a stupid theory.

[Friend]

HOLY JESUS CHRIST FURCOLOW ANSWER THE QUESTION I ASKED YOU 3 TIMES TO ANSWER PLEASE.

[Friend]

Still siting here wondering why no ones thought of what scum motivation MS-Mafia RBer would have by claiming Jailkeeper, when Ms-scum would have no inkling of if there was a actual protection role somewhere else.

I claimed Jailkeeper, because I

know

there are no other protection roles.

@Mod. Thanks

Scumslip?

You claimed Jailkeeper not because you're jailkeeper, but because there's no other protective roles? You're making it sound like a fakeclaim.

[Friend]

It's not a legitimate point if that's what you want me to say.

[Friend]

I don't get it. Be more clear? You have some sort of investigative powers?

[Friend]

How do you know that?

[Friend]

So you're the doc? Not JK?

Foilist, I haven't seen you present a legitimate case on me. Just talk about your omnipresent scumread on me and say "I don't believe Friend's claim" even though both Hoopla and myself have shown why my claim at that time is bizarre and bad scum play.

And don't you dare call this OMGUS. If you were doing this to someone that was not me, I would be saying the same things.

You're the one who lied about your role. You're the one who bussed hard when your scum meta is to bus and bus HARD. So I think the scumteam is almost surely MS/foilist.

[Friend]

If I'm the scum rb, this doesn't explain how Friend is the one that got 'told' he was roleblocked, when my target was orochi/hoopla last night.

I stand by my claimed targets.

Again, what about my getting told I was roleblocked is relevant here? Scum can, uh, lie about their targets, especially when I said I got roleblocked in my first post before all the claiming?

[Friend]

Yeah, I thought of that, but it's just my word against yours right now. What is the town motivation for claiming JK when you're really the doc?

[Friend]

MS: I didn't say either of us were confirmed. I'm saying town is going to have to decide which one of us is lying, because I think it's you and you obviously think it's me.

Also, I don't understand, MS. Why would you fear a counterclaim in the first place if you knew your role? Why would scum be more likely to counterclaim JK instead of doc?

Furc, MS has claimed doc, not JK. Please read the thread. Also, you haven't provided any logic as to why we should lynch Hoopla instead of MS, and as to why you think MS is telling the truth about his role.

[Friend]

You said you fakeclaimed because you didn't fear a counterclaim. But why would that even be an issue? If your role was real, why would you even think about a counterclaim, especially when scum counterclaiming you now is basically suicide for them?

[Friend]

ITT MS doesn't answer my question and instead makes jabs at me when it's him who doesn't explain things properly

[Friend]

Can you quote it for me, because I'm not seeing it.

[Friend]

Do you realize that's what I was asking the question about? If I ask you a question about your response you can't just give me your response and say "here lol." Jeez man, are you being intentionally frustrating?

[Friend]

But it obviously wasn't, or else I wouldn't ask about it?

You said you fakeclaimed because you didn't fear a counterclaim. But why would that even be an issue? If your role was real, why would you even think about a counterclaim, especially when scum counterclaiming you now is basically suicide for them?

[Friend]

It seems more to me like you tested the waters by claiming JK. If there's really a town doc, no big deal, JKs and docs can coexist. But, when the claims came and there wasn't any, you decided to flip your claim to doc as JK was too close to scum RB to keep up.

[Friend]

I meant in the same game, as two separate roles.

[Friend]

FURC. I AM NOT ASKING YOU AGAIN. PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION IN POST 1129. THANK YOU.

[Friend]

So, pure mod speculation, right MS? If you're really town, and that's really all you're basing your vote on, then me and you are going to have a nice long chat in the postgame thread.

Also, orochi said that he did not shoot N1 because he didn't have a hold on the game. He didn't get roleblocked. RTFT.

[Friend]

Well then take it up with the mod after the game. It's the truth and I stand by it. I would quote the PM but that's against the rules.

Are you voting me for any other reason besides modding practices?

[Friend]

The last two scummers are in the group [foilist, furcolow, MS]. I have very little doubts about that. It doesn't matter to me who we lynch today, and I'm still not seeing a decent case on Hoopla.

[Friend]

Guys, lynching MS now and analyzing the situation tomorrow is by far the best plan of attack. Here's the situation:

1. MS flips scum RB. Mafia chooses a PR to kill - we either get more confirmed town or caught scum from eldarad, dead scum from Hoopla, or dead town that can be used to narrow down the scum tomorrow.

2. MS flips town doc. The scum NK, roleblock information, etc. will help the town PoE the scum down and still get a successful lynch off.

It's by far the best play, and if you were town, MS, you would see that.

[Friend]

That last post by furc seemed like bussing tbh. Although it was a good vote nonetheless.

Furc feels scummy because of ongoing games etc. which unfortunately I can't expand upon.

[Friend]

That seems too obvious, however, town almost never confirm others as town, and if they do, they do it with excessive qualifiers and assurances that they don't actually know the person is town.

Seriously? Seriously. You're saying townies never share town-reads? It's called USING PoE. And he

did

use qualifiers - he said "close enough to confirmed town," etc. Shotty is definitely town and I'm willing to say that here.

This is incredibly manipulative BS. Without stating any concrete reasons, you try to make it out to be ridiculous that you and friend could possibly be scum together, when clearly that is a very significant possibility.

How is that even possible? You think that honestly, both scumbuddies would claim VIG? VIG!? That is an INCREDIBLY risky move for scum to make, because if the scum RB (one of us two in that situation) ended up getting lynched the other would be completely left out in the open as essentially confirmed scum after they didn't shoot on their claimed odd/even day. Do you realize how stupid of a move that would be?

[Friend]

@Friend: Its not my fault you two aren't the brightest scum pair.

Here's what you have to take in account for the scumteam to be me/Hoopla:

1. Enigma tunneling on me (and vice-versa) throughout D1 - I suppose you could call it bussing, but then you have to think about:

2. Enigma's ATTEMPTED QUICKHAMMER OF ME AT DEADLINE. Disregarding the completely bizarre hypothetical double vig fakeclaims (which is basically enough evidence in and of itself), that should be the deciding factor as to why there is absolutely no way the scumteam is me/Hoopla. Enigma tried to hammer me. At deadline. D1. When, if we were scumbuddies, there was no reason to when if you wanted to bus, you could just hop on the Uite wagon for town cred. Explain how that attempted deadline hammer makes ANY sense whatsoever if we were scumbuddies.

If the two fake vigilantes make it to lylo there is no way they would get lynched so long as people keep believing.

This is not true. At lylo, claims need to questioned at all times. You're questioning my claim now. People are voting Hoopla. You and the game itself is contradicting you.

Are you saying you couldn't be doing it because you're not smart enough?

Foilist, you're not an idiot. Think about this, and if you still believe that the most likely scumteam is me/Hoopla after you're done, then you're either scum yourself or I hold you in higher regard than I should.

[Friend]

Eldarad is completely correct here: MS's flip is the key to this game. If you want to lynch me today, so be it, but you're putting yourself at a huge risk for tomorrow if MS does flip town. Here's the scenario, foilist:

1. Lynch MS today. If MS is town, Hoopla is almost 100% scum. Lynch Hoopla tomorrow in lylo.

2. Lynch me today. I'll flip town, but the scumteam could still very easily be Hoopla/someone else. Lynching MS could still result in a town flip at lylo, which is deadly.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

[Friend]

Furcolow, whether or not you think MS is scummy you should be voting him: his flip is the way town wins this game.

[Friend]

Exactly. That's why we lynch you, who's the scum RB. Why is lynching me a better choice than you when lynching you will give us information about Hoopla's alignment, but lynching me won't?

[Friend]

Because you claimed JK (oh hey, basically a town RB with some docness thrown in) and then took it back.