Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[Quoi]

Hi everybody! It looks like I'm the latest replacement, so I'll start reading now and probably have something to say by the end of the night.

[Quoi]

Vote: Chihuahua0

He is the one player who can be said to not have made a pro-town post the whole game. Let's run through his ISO:

(Post 0) - Enters the game already playing the newbie card.

(Post 1) - Random vote for ACM, partially because he saw him too much, when he could be getting meta reads off of him instead.

(Post 2) - Switches to an inoffensive vote on an inactive player, for not voting, when the player in question had in fact voted.

(Post 3) - Strongly appeals to wiki/authority in saying that 3rd or 4th on a bandwagon is a scumtell, then apologizes for having offended a policy of what is perhaps seen as the biggest town figure at the time.

(Post 4) - Suggests that the town shouldn't be coordinated with itself?

(Post 5) - Explains nopoint vote with flawed logic, and suggests that only those at L-5 should be suspected.

(Post 6) - Possible newbie card in saying that his arguments always sound funny, and fails at justifying his nopoint vote logic.

(Post 7) - Ignores a question, instead commenting on how he should contribute less and proper abbreviations for his name.

(Post 8) - Answers a bunch of useless questions, continues to say that he should talk less (only scum would want less contribution and talking).

(Post 9) - Openly says in question 2 that waiting for someone to get caught and wagoned is his "scumfinding strategy".

(Post 10) - Criticises Magma for pointing out his logical flaws?

(Post 11) - Says that he didn't want to answer a question because he was worried that his answer would be examined. <--- BIGGEST tell of the game

(Post 12) - Admits to using flawed logic in voting nopoint and paying so little attention to the game as to not know his own vote.

(Post 13) - Mildly dodges a question.

(Post 14) - Fishes for masons.

(Post 15) - Asks for clarification on a posts meaning, apparently having ignored the Tasky/Retro debacle.

(Post 16) - Unvotes, and says it is to save for a hammer. Also ignores Tasky's request for an ISO review on ACM.

(Post 17) - Uses his own post as an example of the popular opinion, suggests that only 1 of a given 4 players can be scum, and votes ACM without actually having given any reasons.

(Post 18) - Suggests that he wants to get lynched as town so he can play the newbie card more. Says that Lemon, ACM, Tasky and me are likely to be scum but still without reason.

[Quoi]

Unvote

Vote: Chihuahua0

You need to understand that it's only hurting the town if you are a townie and don't want to defend against false accusations.

On the other hand, if you're scum, keep it up.

[Quoi]

Unvote

Vote: Chihuahua0

You need to understand that it's only hurting the town if you are a townie and don't want to defend against false accusations.

On the other hand, if you're scum, keep it up.

Your vote was already on Chihuahua.

The rules don't make it clear whether or not unvotes are required.

[Quoi]

^Me. Please don't tell anybody outside the game.

[Quoi]

Fuzzyman is me. If the people in this thread could be the only ones who ever find out about that, that'd be good.

What I'm saying is that townies shouldn't be so concerned about lynch viability quite yet.

[Quoi]

I think chihuahua's replace-out is a scumtell. He'd been playing in three games since late June and didn't show any signs of stress under that situation until we started to call him scum.

[Quoi]

Nopoint might do well to notice Post 257, in which I answer his question by attacking Tasky.

Speculating on replacing out is WIFOM.

How so?

[Quoi]

Although it is fairly insubstantial, there's still no way it could be a town tell.

I'll drop my idea then, since you all didn't accept it that well... just a tip: maybe you should be a little more open for new ways to play this game... it seems like you all think there is just one right way to play...

Something about our distaste for his questioning leading to his abandonment of it doesn't come across quite right to me. He also seems to have abandoned explaining how it was a protown move in his mind.

[Quoi]

nhammen is still scummy and I will explain why after answering a few inquiries directed towards me.

Something about our distaste for his questioning leading to his abandonment of it doesn't come across quite right to me. He also seems to have abandoned explaining how it was a protown move in his mind.

I think this is a bit of a stretch. The group in general expressed the opinion that it wasn't a good idea, so he dropped it. I don't think it indicates town or scum; either way, it was clear that nobody was going to perform the exercise. Whether he is town or scum, dropping the issue was the right thing to do.

A townsperson would have been more likely to try and get some sort of explanation out for why he thought knowing everybody's voting threshold would be beneficial for the down; Tasky just said it was "his way of scumhunting" and hid behind that.

@ Quoi: You have your vote on nhammen (aka chihuahua). What do you think of nhammen so far? And what do you think of recent suspicions of you?

I suppose I just answered the former question a moment ago. The suspicions on me seem to be based upon the ideas that I have only been talking about chihuahua (Which is untrue as I have also spoken about Tasky) and that I am trying to fly under the radar (Which is a bit understandable given my recent relative inactivity and lessened visibility from not posting walls). Given only those two points, however, I can't say that I am one of the people in this game more likely to be scum.

~~~

I do believe chi could be Tasky's partner, though. (Although, I am learning to not place so much weight on my Day 1 reads. It never ends well).

That's an interesting thought for you to put out. What gives you the impression of a scumteam?

~~~

If a player is confirmed Town, but is playing badly, should he be lynched? If a player is highly likely to be Town, but is playing badly, does he deserve to be lynched? If player A is more likely to be Town than player B, but player A is playing worse than player B, which player should you lynch? In other words, where do you draw the line with this "standard" of yours?

How is nhammen asking for Magna's standard on scummy play outside of Newbie Games any different from Tasky asking for everybody's standard on chihuahua's newb card? It isn't.

And votecount is interesting. I always prefer multiple bandwagons: I believe it helps me find scum.

He says this when there are only six more days until deadline and the game is inactive.

I don't see the point of this so I will not do it. My position stands clearly in that I would lynch Chi if he's not being exponentially helpful soon. The reason why I am defending Chi right now is I think there are better place to find scums. Policy lynch is always my last resort.

And I have now reached the post that Magna just quoted. Later in this same post, he does vote chi. Very odd. Possibly scummy. But I also saw some towntells from nopoint, so I'm not sure.

nhammen just randomly dismisses a case because he has seen some "town tells" that he fails to explain.

[Quoi]

I think we'd all do well to remember that the person with the most votes is lynched at deadline. So unless Tasky's wagon brilliantly falls apart at the last moment, he's dead.

[Quoi]

I haven't a problem with it; he's one of the top scum suspects in my book, and is decidedly anti-town enough to be worth the Day 1 lynch.

[Quoi]

A townsperson would have been more likely to try and get some sort of explanation out for why he thought knowing everybody's voting threshold would be beneficial for the down; Tasky just said it was "his way of scumhunting" and hid behind that.

Actually his best description of his reasons is provided here:

I didn't say I want to lynch chihuahua0, I said that I want to know if the ones who use the noob pass are prefixed that chihuahua is not to be lynched since he is noob or if they allow limits to the noob card...

He was worried that we would never be willing to lynch him. BTW, some people consider this type of worry a scum tell. I haven't seen it catch scum yet, so I don't know, but I am very curious. I can easily understand it, because the Town has nothing to worry about if the majority of the Town is unwilling to lynch someone, but the Scum do have something to worry about.

I guess we're going to have to settle for an impasse here if you don't believe that's a scumtell.

If a player is confirmed Town, but is playing badly, should he be lynched? If a player is highly likely to be Town, but is playing badly, does he deserve to be lynched? If player A is more likely to be Town than player B, but player A is playing worse than player B, which player should you lynch? In other words, where do you draw the line with this "standard" of yours?

How is nhammen asking for Magna's standard on scummy play outside of Newbie Games any different from Tasky asking for everybody's standard on chihuahua's newb card? It isn't.

How is Tasky's asking for a stance scummy? In my opinion, that is one of the few arguments against him that is flat out bad. It was a dumb thing to ask because nobody would be able to give an answer, and he should have known this. But bad logic is not a scumtell. Now the concern over not lynching a slot, that can be considered scummy, as I outline above.

In addition, there is a difference: I asked him a yes or no question about specific cases. In the first of these cases the answer should have been obvious.

What makes you think that Tasky's misstep was bad logic and not a scumslip? Hell, what makes any possible set of thinly disguised scum information probes distinct from bad logic? I could ask everybody in the game for an essay on how they go about scumhunting, how they've gone about scumhunting, and how they intend to go about scumhunting, but you might still dismiss it as a misguided attempt at productivity, bad logic.

And votecount is interesting. I always prefer multiple bandwagons: I believe it helps me find scum.

He says this when there are only six more days until deadline and the game is inactive.

And? What does this mean? Was my post scummy? If so, why?

I had been saying that you were promoting vote-splitting close to deadline, but now that I have taken note of the (unusual?) deadline lynch mechanism, this attack is invalid. My bad.

I don't see the point of this so I will not do it. My position stands clearly in that I would lynch Chi if he's not being exponentially helpful soon. The reason why I am defending Chi right now is I think there are better place to find scums. Policy lynch is always my last resort.

And I have now reached the post that Magna just quoted. Later in this same post, he does vote chi. Very odd. Possibly scummy. But I also saw some towntells from nopoint, so I'm not sure.

nhammen just randomly dismisses a case because he has seen some "town tells" that he fails to explain.

I'm sorry if I am not going to give scum a roadmap for how to appear Town.[/sarcasm] I tell everyone what scumtells I see, but I don't give out my Towntells unless they are obvious (or I think they should be).

The thing about good town tells is that if someone is gives them off, regardless of what their alignment is,

the town is better off from it

. Your disclosure of what made you not so suspicious of nopoint would have made scum no more incentive to give them off, and would have increased clarity in how you were evaluating others.

[Quoi]

Since you're here, Chevre, do you mind explaining this:

Equinox: I don't find [Tasky] scummy enough for a vote. It's highly unlikely that he will get scummier before deadline, though, so I will likely vote him before deadline.

So you would vote him because of his failure to get scummier??

[Quoi]

I would have voted him before deadline to ensure that some sort of lynch occurred. However, since I realized it only takes a plurality at deadline, probably not.

WRONG! You made that post two hours after I announced that only a plurality was needed at deadline.

Unvote: nhammen

Vote: Chevre

[Quoi]

@Chevre: If Tasky were to flip town today, what would you do on Day 2?

[Quoi]

Chevre, we don't trust you to abstain from voting Tasky at the last minute and creating a tied vote, thus forcing no lynch at deadline. Vote now.

[Quoi]

Mod: I'm pretty sure nopoininactingup switched his vote to SV in Post #358

[Quoi]

I think that the voting analysis isn't so applicable in the case of my player slot as we have no way of telling whether or not my predecessor would have stuck with his suspicion of Tasky had he still been playing. It's not as though anybody here backed off from Tasky as we approached the later stages of the day; I just happened to find chihuahua scummier than RA found him, having replaced in during the time in question.

That said, the analysis

is

very useful in pointing out nopoint, and as MoI is showing, nopoint is trying to get out of it by WIFOMing and supporting a Tasky lynch. I think that he deserves my vote right now.

Vote:nopoint