Mini 988 - Small Town Mafia GAME OVER

[DavidParker]

/confirm

[DavidParker]

I hear a wagon.

Vote: Exilon

[DavidParker]

Just posting to say I'm here, and will contribute once my game of DotA ends.

[DavidParker]

Vote: Zach

Seems to not be contributing all that much, and just asking questions without really trying to help out town (ironic since I've been afk and not contributing but hey!). Apart from that, i don't get a huge scum vibe from butterfly, so not too keen on a lynch on him atm.

[DavidParker]

Well I took part on the Exilon wagon. I'm surprised it got to L-1, to be honest, I like to get games moving as I come from a site whre day phases last 1-2 real life days. So activity is usually big and stuff gets done in shrot periods of time so i was happy with a bandwagon. Games here move a lot more methodically and... slow!

The exilon wagon may be useful to look at later when we know more, although I think not much can be said of it atm as it was mostly a joke. ALthough someone was about to put him at L-1 in their post then changed their mind mid post. That seems possible as scum trying to get a quick lynch, but then not wanting to seem to obvious.

[DavidParker]

Just re-read the exilon bandwagon, and my vote on him stands. Was actually justified and he didn't deal with it well. The "vote for himself" seems to be a ploy to seem less scummy. Then doesn't do it because he "wants his random vote"

[DavidParker]

TO clarify any confusion

Unvote

Vote: Exilon

[DavidParker]

Unvote

Well, moving beyond the exilon bandwagon. I'm getting a bad read from jason.

Vote: jasonT1981

Too persistent on reiterating your point on backpeddling and "pointing out" scum tells. Fact is smart scum will play it smart. So as much as cases against people are great. It's day 1, and my gut on you is a scum one. And I'd rather go by my gut on day 1 than anything else.

[DavidParker]

One townie's "scum tell" is another scum's "excuse" for voting for a townie..

Let's face it, townies will constantly do things which may seem scummy. And on day 1, scum will point those out and will time after time result in mislynches. So yeah, my votes on you. Live with it.

[DavidParker]

Could repeat same arguements as everyone else.. But alas I'll save bandwidth.

Vote: The Butterfly

[DavidParker]

claim now imo

[DavidParker]

I keep gettin confused because the 3 other games I'm in I don't need to unvote...

Unvote

Vote: The Butterfly

Seems silly you have to unvote as people can use that to confuse people or force claims or make someone think they are being hammered etc.

When that shouldn't be a strategy in Mafia.

[DavidParker]

@Nacho: So you don't think butterfly is scummmy???!?!?!?!?

[DavidParker]

Hey ox1de you're right, so thanks for voting for me to force me to be more active. I was just late to get into the discussion (was page 8 when I got here after my random vote) and have struggled to catch up and get involved with the discussion.

If you want I could tell you who I find scummy or not, but I've yet to build up any cases due to lack of time, because I've become nocturnal while the World Cup is on (I live in Australia), so I'd rather not post accusations at people and call them scummy when I've yet to build a proper case.

[DavidParker]

Yes, I also hate seeing scum claims. It's basically like a scummy way of not claiming, but doesn't necessarily make you scum.

I think pushing for BOTH of their lynches is scummy as well. I mean, it's very plausible neither are scum, and the fact you are deadset on lynching both (when could easily be 2 mis lynches) sent signals flying!

[DavidParker]

Also, it is important we look at how the scum claims differ greatly.

Butterfly's: If it was his brother: Well then we don't know what to make of it. IT could be his brother trying to get him killed when he's a VT or PR. Or it could be his brother trying to ruin his game for him as scum.

If it's not his brother: Well then he's probably scum... I'm not sure why he'd claim it was his brother if he was actually scum and did it on purpose.. Regardless, he's dealt with the pressure on him very poorly.

Other scum claims: Well nothing can be made of them, they were more just "jokes" and to "prove a point" (look at ox1de) than anything. These players may be scum, but I don't think their scum claims are really signs of scumminess here, whereas butterfly's claim and how he dealt with it afterwards is definitely scummy.

[DavidParker]

Hey guys I'm here, this is just the least interesting of my 4 games. With that said I'm still contributing, just I feel more like an observer than an on-going participant due to me starting the game 6-7 pages in. I know I can change that and actively scum-hunt, but with World Cup fever atm, it's not the easiest thing to do! (GO MEXICO TONIGHT!)

I still think a butterfly lynch is the best result for the town based on anyone who can be lynched. I don't think we should rush into it though as there's still a lot of time for discussion. I think my earlier attack on zach was somewhat unfounded, although I still find Jason quite suss.

[DavidParker]

Why is SSBF discussing scum teams on day 1 ? Wait until someone has been killed...

[DavidParker]

Hi yeah, I'm not denying being somewhat of a lurker while actually posting in other games (The newby game I'm in) that's because I'm actually up to date and actively involved, this game requires me to re-read the thread before I can have a useful post containing my thoughts, I will get to it tonight (between the italy/nz match - WOHOO NZ WINNING 1-0 ATM and the 3rd match of the night). I can't really post much of value until I've read through the thread properly, whereas the newbie game I'm in I have a good read on everyone and just have to respond to recent posts.

[DavidParker]

Alright, here are my thoughts on happenings:

Exilon Wagon - Well, it wasn't really founded on much, but it was a good starting point. Ox1de started the wagon, it was during RVS so a lot of the bandwagoning was people's sort of RBWS (Random band wagoning stage). With that said, it was semi-serious although later disappeared a bit. If he does flip scum, butterfly looking good to be paired with him as a latecomer on the bandwagoner despite the fact he supported him. Also, makes me think butterfly is a bit dodgy.

Foobert - early on his first post where he uses ox1de's own reasoning to vote for him seemed kinda suss....

Nacho - VERY early scum claim. The fact is, his post sends signals flaring, and while I'm still reading the thread, this scum claim may receive my vote. It's too easy to be cleared as town and ignored for a while by doing a "joke" scum claim while sarcastically mentioning a bunch of scum things you will do. I don't like it. Why would a towny feel it necessarily to post that?

WAYYY TOO MUCH WIFOM going on in first few pages for my liking. Nacho and foobert to blame mostly....

Jason makes some funny reactions to posts, ie: attacks someone who makes a joke about a 3rd party for having extra info about the presence of a third party.

Then... THe Butterfly Wagon:
This wagon is actually quite justified.. STarts because he does a weak justification when bandwagoning an exilon vote then backs down saying "i could be wrong etc"

Anyways, at this poitn i got lazy, watching a bunch of peple lol @ butterfly's stupidity wasn't very enjoyable.

The main point of interest:

Zach vs Nacho - nacho attacks zach for pushing a lynch on an "easy" target, without even presenting his case. Zach presents a case against nacho and there we go. Fact is butterfly has been scummmy beyond all reason. With that said, I think you should have looked for other reasons to vote for zach as they were there if you wanted to pressure him.

Finally what exactly is a VI? From this game I can basically tell but a clarification would be nice.

At this point I think nacho is fighting a losing battle, a butterfly lynch seems almost necessary to me. He's done everything scummy and beyond scummy, sure not much of it makes sense and has to be explained by newbness, but to me he comes off more as a newb scum than a newb townie.

So, I'm not going to change my vote from butterfly ;/

[DavidParker]

@nacho: Oh, I fully agree butterfly is an easy target if he is town. But the thing with those super easy targets, is if you have to take them somtimes. Almost as a policy lynch, because not lynching them is more dangerous than lynching them. I didn't actually see Zach's case on you. Your case on Zach was just focused around him band wagoning an easy target, I think it was a bit rash this early to bandwagon an easy target, we should be pressuring other people (ie myself/concerned) but when it comes down to it, unless we find a scum somehow, a butterfly lynch is the best thing for town as far as I can tell from his actions.

With regard to butterfly being more newb scum. Well, intially the scum claim, and then covering it up saying it was his brother. If it was his brother, I see it more likely his brother was telling the truth to "screw him over". If he's lying, well then it only really makes sense he may be scum... Else he woulda just played it as a joke/discussion starter like you. Following that, just his immature post style and "frantic" defence gave me a scummier vibe than a town one, regardless of his lack of grasp of the English language.

[DavidParker]

At what point did I post that I have a town read from zach and jason? If anything my gut is telling me Jason is scum.

Also, I've been voting for butterfly for a while when there's been plenty of other bandwagons started that I could have easily clinged onto, sure you could present some load of WIFOM saying oh but you did that to distance yourself from butterfly, but fact is I think he is scum and want him gone. I would gladly hammer him if it was nearing the very end of the deadline, and it was up to me. If I had to choose anyone, I would choose him.

[DavidParker]

ANd Cuet, as your "noob scum team" it seems kind of "unnoobish" of us to all be posting against each other. Well both ox1de and I have said we would gladly lynch butterfly, while ox1de has said he would gladly lynch me. Sure, this isn't really a case for my defence but just a point I think you should note if you haven't.

Finally, I'm not denying being guilty of lurking and to a small extend bandwagoning (I did read up the cases, and my "bandwagon" on butterfly, i've explained fully why I think he is scum and not town), my explanation for the lurking was falling 5-6 pages behind and struggling to catch up with my busy schedule, while my other game I was up to date and it was moving at a tempo with me so I could constantly post. Now that I am more up to date here (And I've been lynched in my other game), It wil be far easier to be active here.

Final question: @Cuet: What is your case against ox1de?

[DavidParker]

I think butterfly has acted scummier than anyone else in this game. Arguing that is difficult, early on I was reluctant to vote him as pointed out because he was an "easy target" as some said. But upon rereading him in iso, it's pretty easy to see how he seems like a scum digging his own hole. With that said, what does my gut say? Initially it said town, but upon re-reading my gut is leaning towards scum, so I don't have any problem voting him based on his actions.

Look, it's possible he's newb town, but I see it as being just as possible (and imo more possible) he's newb scum. Having him stay around is dangerous, unless someone has the capability to clear him, we definitely don't want him in a lylo situation if he is town, so I think he has to be lynched eventually whether he's town or scum, unless someone is going to clear him. And as for clearing him: he's proven himself to be young/immature and not all that clever. Why would we want to clear a player like that when an investigation is more useful elsewhere.

Until I see a scummier player, I don't see anyway I'm going to change my vote.

[DavidParker]

I'm more convinced he will flip scum than anyone else.

[DavidParker]

I agree with this hammer, I doubt much more would have come out today, with the deadline so close I think some people would have liked to ride it out as long as they could.

Enough was enough, and BF was on borrowed time.

Butterfly, who are your scum partners?

It seems I'm his scum partner regardless of whether he flips town or scum :p

[DavidParker]

Hey guys, I'm back!!! : D

Useful quote:

i was trying to keep these to myself but Jason really seems to whant to see them
so here are my two main suspects and why....

1. Antonio- he has not been posting and when he douse he only puts a small amount of information... and most of the time its not game-realated
2. jasonT1981- you have been pokeing at me from day 1. would you be trying to divert atention from yourself.

Look, butterfly has proven to be "noob scum", I think chances are we are looking at townies on his suspect list. Well, at least in the form of jason. Antonio he semi-defended at one point for some unknown reason.

ox1de's badgering of (dead)David Parker was rather non-productive, but it gives (alive)David Parker a sort of town vibe from him.

I am still getting scum vibes from Exilon, and will see what the latest on nacho is and get back to yous.

[DavidParker]

Hey sorry, been busy yesterday, posting now.

A lot of useless back and forth between ox and zach lately. Read through it and all, i don't feel either has slipped up majorly there.

I am getting a very strong scum read from nacho, especially the way he deals with a few people voting on him, he seems to be overly worrying and overreacting to a bit of pressure.

Vote: Nacho

[DavidParker]

@ zach: Are you saying that you think nacho and exilon are both scum?

@exilon: Why is that a null tell? I think any player's "meta" is somewhat useful for seeing their play style as scum or town.

[DavidParker]

(I also don't like how you so casually dismiss it, rather than defend yourself appropriately)

[DavidParker]

Seems perfectly valid to me :O

[DavidParker]

Unvote: nacho

don't like where this is going.

[DavidParker]

I'm kinda new to this site and havn't seen how scum do last ditch efforts to save themselves here, but nacho's seems genuine.

[DavidParker]

I unvoted, on re-evaluation I think I should reassess. An ox lynch seems almost as viable.

And i didn't unvote because of his claim alone, his last few posts seem like a genuine defence.

[DavidParker]

Vote: nacho

nevermind, ignore my doubts.

[DavidParker]

FIRSTLY, what's with all the scummy town players dying during night phases? first david parker (v.1) and now ox1de????

Alright, doing a re-skim of the game. (mostly day 1)

Stuff that stands out:

Exilon - TOWN read. Butterfly laid it out for us when he bandwagoned the early exilon wagon: #23. Still could be possible third party.

SSBF - Post 33: Ignores butterfly's role fishing.

Jason - TOWN read. Points out butterfly's role fishing. However, didn't vote on it. butterfly also "clears" him post 222.

With regard to post 222, butterfly's other suspect is antonio. It's quite possible he included 1 scum in his list, and that'd be antonio if he did.

zach - TOWN read. Can say to almost 100% certainty he is not scum, cant be bothered with mass quoting to prove it etc.. some communication with butterfly early on. MOstly meaningless. Defends butterfly slightly.

SSBF -#75 Suggests a possible connection between you and butterfly.

Concerned: Post 83, defends butterfly, but comes off as town while doing it. Various posts give me a town read for concerned.

cuet: scum read - seems a bit too sure that butterfly will flip scum.. Interesting post: #368. If cuet flips scum like i think he will, can safely clear concerned as well (david parker (version 1) and nacho were both town).

Basically, cuet says if butterfly is scum, those 3 ppl should be looked at. 2 flipped town upon death. 1 is giving me a town vibe. seems to be some major misdirection. Also, jason is still alive (the one who insists cuet is town). If you're scum and a player insists you are town, you sure as hell dont kill off that player. And jason has been very pro-town all game.

Note: butterfly at one points make excuses FOR antonio not posting.. Possible connection pointed out by Jason.

I skimmed day 2 (really briefly atm, i'm a bit zonked, but i just got this vibe that its a bunch of town players arguing)

Conclusion:
cuet scum.
ssbf possible scum.
zach/exilon both i can say almost definitely not scum with butterfly
jason/concrned both seem pro town and im leaning that way
antonio neutral.


VOTE: Cuet

[DavidParker]

i just posted my thoughts as they came to me upon rereading the past few days happening.

And i think it's more than likely one of my "pro-town" players is in fact scum.


Also, just a note for those who forgot: I replaced foobert day 2.

[DavidParker]

Hmm, I think my vote is semi-prejudiced by your day 1 actions, coming in late and stating how you thought btuterfly was scum from page 1 when you only put at L-1 vote on him or something.

Just rereading day 2 properly and not sure what to make of it entirely.

@all: what explanation is there for the scummiest townie dying both night 1 and night 2?!?!?

[DavidParker]

i just posted my thoughts as they came to me upon rereading the past few days happening.

And i think it's more than likely one of my "pro-town" players is in fact scum.

Also, just a note for those who forgot: I replaced foobert day 2.

Which one?

well im going to mimic nacho and say jason or concerned. I think it's safe to say one of the two is scum.

[DavidParker]

i'm purely speculating.. so ugh.. no???

gonna go sleep.

I still find cuet scummy. I find SSBF more scummy I think upon reevaluation. I don't think it's a better idea to speculate on the setup, but surely we can do both at the same time. It was just such an absurd thing to happen 2 nights in a row...

Unvote

Vote: SSBF

Anyways, as said going to sleep. If you're nice you might get cases tomorrow, although I have a few job interviews.

[DavidParker]

cool, but i expect a case on me by the time i wake up!

[DavidParker]

I think the fact this bandwagon got so quickly to L-1 points to me being town. Anyways, I'll make a better post later tonight (its morning, just woke up, headin off to interviews), my timezone is in australia. I'll respond to all your concerns when I can properly do so, right now just acknowledging them.

[DavidParker]

An out basically means he created a criteria in which you could be town, so the suspicion he was trying to cast isn't quite the same as the one I cited for Jason.

Though on re-read, I interpret that more as him trying to excuse your lynch... so I can see your point now I suppose.

Meh...

Unvote:

Jason parrots me a lot when he's town. It's when he doesn't do it that you should start to wonder if something is up.

agree, butterfly confirms jason as town there I think. Exilon could be him trying to clear his scum buddy.

[DavidParker]

da heck.

k, making my promised post now, spent last 2 hours on all 10 of my games doing proper analysis, and now this game's turn

[DavidParker]

First:

Cuet - Reanalysis points to leaning-town read on him. As said that post was reading/commenting as I went, not really proper read through. Also, his "reaction" or more just shrugging off my poor case on him has seemed townish.

My main problem right now, so many players seem to be in these pro-town positions and there seem to be a few too many people sitting snug in their town positions because of the scum lynch on butterfly and stuff butterfly said.

Ugh, even now just having start my in depth post on this game, I'm losing interest, as I haven't really been involved nor do I have anything to offer nor am I a key component for town this game. Sure I can contribute with detailed scum hunting but that won't do anything to clear me as scum, maybe you'll keep me around for it as you can learn more from me posting, but that's not guaranteed. This game is just somewhat dull for my position and building mass cases on people at this point doesn't really interest me. I'll post reads and thoughts. But conciseness is all I'll offer. After this, no walls of any sort.

@zach, your case on me is easily explained by me just posting my thoughts and doing a sort of "stream of consciousness" commentary/voting. pattern.

@jason post 560: as said, i was just posting and thinking things through as i went. i posted the people who were giving me pro-town vibes. then realizing how many there were and as nacho poitned out 1 is most likely going to be scum.

I agree jason is parotting zach, but i dont think that makes him definite scum... will be holding my vote for now until discussion progresses further, as i'm the obvious bandwagon at the moment so me putting a vote on someone (as a sole voter, or if i follow someone else(scummy in itself) maybe putting a second vote on someone).

Unvote

I think my wagon got out of control very quickly. Sure a quick lynch was very unlikely and never going to happen, but L-1 instantly, and noone apart from zach seemed to give a vibe they would let go of the pressure.

Anyways, feel free to ask questions of me, i'm going to be concise and to the point from now on.

Irrelevent: Maybe a busdriver (played rather well so far) has been the reason for these strange kills?

[DavidParker]

Yeah, your actions I think have increased my town read on you.

[DavidParker]

Yeah DP is scum.

Vote : DavidParker

yeah first post into the day... checking his day 1 play again though.. i'm not convinced.

[DavidParker]

obssessed? I'm merely bringing them up because they are a decent point of discussion not really mentioned (I believe at least).

[DavidParker]

I am going to say I have to agree strongly with cuet's scum list. I think at least 2 of those 3 on his scum list are scum. I still think exilon and to a small extent jason should be looked at.

I believe there was some post linking butterfly and antonio I remember someone pointing out.. Not too sure though. Oh, butterfly made excuses for antonio not posting when he had been lurking, that's right.

Also, to highlight one of the few (very few) acceptable points in that first long post of mine on day 3:

vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

he ninjaed my spot

This was after RVS had ended pretty much, he then unvotes 2 posts later. Seems like a blatant attempt for butterfly to distance himself from SSBF by voting for him (sure a very poor one, but it's been proven that butterfly was basically newbscum).

Vote: SSBF

@Concerned: IGMEOY

[DavidParker]

there is no pro-town reason for my talking about the night kills, concerned. I'm curious that's all. Because I have no explanation for it myself that I can offer, and obviously wasn't involved of the choosing of the nightkill since I'm going to claim to not be scum. It's funny how you are so aggressive regarding such a no-tell. Also funny, cause you are saying I'm "obssessed" with it, which is obviously not true, I just brought it up for discussion. I agree now it's a point of discussion that will help scum as much/more than town.

Upon explanation, I can see why discussing it is just likely to out Town PR's and is "probably" a bad idea more than anything, so i'll stop trying to probe out of curiosity. I'm glad that you are clenching onto this discussing of game setup as me being scum, when its fairly obvious its just me being curious and looking for an explanation for something (something where the explanation, if stated, wouldnt help the town). Oh, looks like you just claimed vigilante. That's most curious.

So, the scum don't have a night kill, or arent using it!?!!? OR we have a VERYYYYY GOOD doctor.

Frankly, at this point I don't think either Concerned OR myself should be lynched. If concerned is telling the truth, then either scum aren't night killing, or our doctor is a genious. TWO PROTECTS IN A ROW!?!?! The odds of that are very small. I'd calculate it based on pure statistics (ignoring things such as pro-town players and scum players), 1/120 chance I think??? well thats assuming he can protect himself, so thats off maybe.

Now, here's me drinking the wine you put in front of me.. if i was scum and our night kills had been seeming to go on targets who they werent aimed at, i wouldnt state that theres a busdriver obviously, that'd just out me as scum.

Anyways, I think the odds of busdriver/doctor choosing the kill target TWO nights in a row is very low. It makes me disbelieve that you are a vigilante.

Still, I don't think you are the best lynch today. Go ahead and night kill me Mr. Vigilante if you think I'm scum.

ALSO, why did you even claim!??!!?

wow, i can't believe where this game just went...




@ALL: SOMETHING WORTH DISCUSSING:
If there were 4 scum initially and no third party, and we mislynch today, town lose. It will be a 3:3 ratio tomorrow and town has lost. In a 12 person game is there typically 3 scum? or 4? 3+a SK or what? This is my first non-newbie game on this site, so I'm unsure.

If there's 4 it's very likely scum were going for a quick lynch on me earlier, and well you can look at the people on the wagon to see who stands out (helloooo concerned+SSBF), millar has now rejoined the wagon putting me at L-1 in a very scummy manner, stating he would get involved tomorrow. Maybe there is no tomorrow if i'm lynched, and scum win...

So, how many scum do people think there are?

Regardless of the number of scum, even numbers are bad for town. The towns odds for winning increase when there's an odd number of players (assuming no third party, and vigilante kill could mess this up).

My thoughts: Unless we are lynching someone who we are confident will flip scum, a no lynch could help. There may be 3 scum left, and mislynch today would then mean we lose. Also, no lynch would give another night for a cop if we have one to get another check, assuming he hasn't been getting roleblocked.


Final suspicion @ Concerned: The few games I've played around here with vigilantes they have been one-shot vigilantes, I know that not all vigilantes are, but this just is at the back of my mind with your claim :/. ALSO, you make it sound like you should be seen as more PRO-Town for claiming vigilante.. But all you have just done is admitted to killing off two town players. Whether they were scummy or not, they were bad decisions.

I'm not sure what the best lynch for today is. I think now there will be some people pushing strongly for a Concerned lynch, and still some people very keen to lynch me. I think Concerned has a terribly poor case on me in his last post, but some cases on me from earlier in the day have some merit behind them, and can understand the suspicion. I don't believe Concerned claim just because of the statistical improbability since that means scum have yet to do a nightkill, which is what mafia is about, unless BOTH have been blocked which seems too unlikely a doctor can be that lucky. Unless a doctor comes out and states who he has been protecting I will not believe Concerned's claim. NOTE: I am not suggesting a doctor should come out, because it's still VERY possible concerned is scum and we have a doctor who has missed both protections. One thing that would condemn Concerned (in my eyes) is a busdriver coming out and revealing that on both night 1 and 2, he switched the player's who died with someone else. This would mean Concerned is lying about being a vigilante since both night kills were moved, so he would have failed as vigilante. If there is a busdriver, I think him coming out could be a good move(if he moved the ppl who were nightkilled on earlier nights) However, i don't think there is a busdriver.. He would have claimed already. He could clear two townies, since both people who he switched the killed players with would essentially be confirmed townies, since they were targets of night kills...Also, this wouild make concerned scum, so don't think we have one. Doctor coming out I don't think is beneficial for town... Right now I think Concerned is just lying though.

Unvote

I would support either a Concerned or SSBF lynch at this current moment. I think with some more discussion and input from millar a lynch on him would be supported by myself as well, but at current moment he has yet to contribute.

[DavidParker]

I'm going to go ahead and claim VT by the way. I know Concerned and I are the 2 biggest suspects, so if you are worried about lynching a PR and believe his claim (loL?), then I'm just a VT. I know I've seen people say don't claim unless at L-1, well I am at L-1, funy cuz concerned isn't.

Scum can probably tell by now i'm a VT. Why? BEcause of my curiousity with the night kills. I can't explain them. I'm not the doctor or anyone who can affect night kills. I'm just an inquisitive VT :/. I know noone has pressured me to claim or expressed intent to hammer, but I think this claim helps my case, without helping scum because they probably already are 95% sure I am a VT.

[DavidParker]

I want to avoid having this day end too quickly. There's no point voting him if it's not going to go anywhere, I've made it clear where I stand that I would support a SSBF or Concerned lynch, and that I definitely think Concerned is lying. I'm awaiting to see what other people think before voting, since I don't think my current position is one to try lead from.

[DavidParker]

ah, the crosskill aspect didn't cross my mind. "kill flavor" = ?

[DavidParker]

so ugh.. vidge claim by a major suspect and then activity drops?!?!??! da heck.

[DavidParker]

Here's some quick maths for you:

Assuming no medic: 1/99 chance that mafia/vidge kills overlapped both nights. That is putting aside factors such as pro-town and scummy players. If you factored in the scummiest players dying both night 1 and night 2, the chance of kills overlapping is MUCH lower.

Similar odds for a medic choosing the correct player to protect on both night 1 or night 2. (or for a combination of medic saves and kill overlaps)

No one is going to hammer me as much as I know you'd like it, Concerned.

Anyways, I suggest we lynch the next scummiest player, in my eyes this is SSBF or millar. Exilon is possible scum, but I don't feel there's a strong enough case on him.

Then, tonight, our "vidge" can kill off his sure scum, me. As said, I claimed VT. I think you'll only be seeing one night kill again tonight though...

[DavidParker]

Well, i explained it as being purely curiousity! Duh. why would i lie!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!

i don't like how you so quickly bought his vig claim... to be honest, that was the last thing i expected from his position. It has just made him look scummier. Why even claim? he wasn't at L-1... He claims, and says he killed BOTH people who were killed. It doesn't add up.

Also, do you honestly think that scum went for the two players agreed to be the scummiest in the game on their respective days (after the person gettin lynched) AND it happened to overlap kills with our vig??? That is just not something i'm willing to believe.

[DavidParker]

umm i didn't suggest it? I suggested we should lynch one of SSBF/millar although i'm sure there will be a camp still wanting to lynch me.. I just said i didnt believe his claim yet. Until i see two night kills.

[DavidParker]

I actually didn't get what you meant by kill flavor until now. I just reread death scenes and agree that it is likely the kills overlapped based on both involved an axe and a gun. However, an axe seems to correspond more to a serial killer than anything. While gun = mafia. With that said, this is just speculation, and I am going to repeat that i don't think we should be killing off the claimed vig.

Anyways, thanks for pointing that out, i stand corrected (i think).

?? I'm trying to suggest you are too quick to believe a claim that was done at an illogical and unnecessary time. The claim doesn't seem to make sense from a scum or town pov.

[DavidParker]

Yeah, as said, I think we are in agreement over him not being a good lynch target. (not to mention scum will now probably target him, if hes not scum, which could work in our favor if hes a SK)

[DavidParker]

fucking retarded

[DavidParker]

OH WOW.

EVEN MORE RETARDED NOW.

/end caps...

sigh now we have to deal with the "did he know he wasn't actually self-hammering" dilemma...

[DavidParker]

I don't.

But i could be wrong.

[DavidParker]

Look, millar is either scum genius at this point (well really dirty dirty scum) or just a retardedly spastic town player.

If he is telling the truth about forgetting this game (somewhat believable) then he would come back and pretend to self hammer, not having looked at rules.. If he is scum, he has been actively lurking all along and planned to stage that and knew perfectly well what would happen..

Something tells me millar won't post again until he gets prodded again to make his hammer look believable (or because he thinks hes dead)

[DavidParker]

I'll hammer for you. Don't bother with a replacement. At this point he can't be forgiven, I would have been willing to hear his slot out if he hadn't admitted to it being a fake-hammer. Who woudl fake hammer? only scum as I see it..

Unvote, Vote:Millar

[DavidParker]

fucking retarded

[DavidParker]

If he is town, I will hate him. No seriously, I will.

[DavidParker]

not doing anything til i see your flip.

[DavidParker]

well maybe our "vigilante" can help us tonight.

[DavidParker]

ugh. wut?!?!?!?!

thanks concerned.

told u he was scum :/

[DavidParker]

only 2 scum? :O

[DavidParker]

yeah i was VT both times..

i'm guessing definitely no cop. and prob no doctor..

[DavidParker]

was millar like secret scum or something.

[DavidParker]

doctomination it seems

[DavidParker]

Unless they tried to kill zach both nights lol.

my guess

[DavidParker]

honestly, going into the last day, the only person who seemed blatantly scummy to me was SSBF (the other possible scum slot was probably mine).. it just didnt add up, which is why ppl started reaching on ppl who seemed townish.. that's why i had to keep stating how one of my many town reads is probably scum.

turns out.. nope.

[DavidParker]

well i only had a scum read on him by process of elimination.. butterfly was too dumb to send us in the wrong direction

[DavidParker]

thanks for modding

[DavidParker]

well, i think going after those scummy players doesnt really help.. i mean you are left with pro town players and ppl just have to use process of elimination to find the least pro-town player. to me that was you, although some though it was exilon etc.

if you had just gone after pro-town players i think woulda been easier to orchestrate more mislynches.. although as it turned out there was a mislynch every day (after butterfly's day 1 lync0, so i guess from that pov you did play it perfectly, except missing out on the 2 night kills on first 2 nights.

[DavidParker]

In concept I just don't think it works. Confusing the town is one thing, but killing off strong town players seems much better..