Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[nopointinactingup]

/confirm

[nopointinactingup]

RVS question:
1. What Timezone do you live in? This will be important when we get into more important parts of the game and not everyone lives in the same time zone.
2. How much experience do you have with Mafia?
3. How did you end up on Mafiascum?
4. Do you prefer RVS or RQS?
5. Describe your play style (Optional)

1> GMT+7.
2> A lot of real life experience, but not so much forum experience as I've only played on this site 4-5 games.
3> Google.
4> RQS.
5> No idea (=

[nopointinactingup]

Alright guys. I got away from my classes at last.

@

All

, do you generally prefer to lead or follow?

It really depends on the situation.

I see nopointinactingup is already lurking, and that must be rectified.

vote nopointinactingup

You're not doing a bad job yourself Charter

Hmm the way I see it, Hiphop and Podium are likely town, one of Sando/Llama is highly likely scum and the other people feels neutral. However, that's mostly my gut feelings.

[nopointinactingup]

If that's a catchup post...try again.

^ wholehearted agreement.

I agree.
More later.

What can I say. I just don't like arbitrary analysis. Here's something real you guys can talk about:

I claim Miller ( I will turn out to be scum by cop investigation or lynch despite being a Townie ).

[nopointinactingup]

Prehaps it's just me, but I really did not like nopointinactingup's early claim. I really don't see the benefit of claiming this early in the game when we still have plenty of time left (I guaratee you the exact same result would happen if he claimed closer to the end of the game).

I would see some apparent town-benefit of role-claiming miller since my role is rather an unverifiable anti-town town role.
1> It gives town clearer info so as to make decisions ( If you guys are going to lynch don't trust me, you should lynch me now, not at endgame when the risks of losing are higher. Eg: Now you may reduce town chance of winning by sm 10% by lynching me while the decision to lynch me at lylo would reduce town's chance of winning by 100%).
2> If I claim Miller at my L-1 at some point during the game, it may seem very opportunistic and dishonest and thus untrustworthy and I'd probably get lynched anyways. Thus, it would increase my chance of surviving if I claim Miller now and as the only person who can verify myself town (even after death), I should do my best to survive.

Here are some reasons I thought you guys should think I'm town though.
If I was scum, claiming miller now would put myself in the open and surely increases my chance of being lynched.
If I was miller, claiming miller now would increase my chance of surviving through the reasons above.
--> Hence, there's no reason for a real Miller not to claim miller right from the start of the game ( ofcourse I did ask the mod whether it was legitimate ).

And I was just gearing up for a vote hop when nopointinactingup blasted in with the uncalled-for miller claim. That makes me sad. I wish this site would be more strict in its game requirements for newbies.

You may want to reconsider your condescending opinion yes? What requirement says I cannot role-claim?

[nopointinactingup]

@Hiphop: I'm a town miller is what's said in my role PM. But it describes me as, like podium said, a big question mark because I am guilty in both cop investigation and by lynch? So whether I'm dead or alive, you guys can't know my alignment till game ends

Right now I don't think we should have a Spyrex lynch. I thought Spyrex's behavior was not very scummy in comparision with Sando's or SSBF's. I suspect SSBF now because of his constant piggybacking and especially his post following Wickedestjr weak case on Spyrex. His play certainly resembles scumplay.

Vote:SSBF

[nopointinactingup]

Lol. Nopoint. Claiming miller at the slightest hint of trouble. Still think this guy is suspicious.

I didn't know what Miller was till this game, so I had to look up wiki and then ask the mod if it's okay for me to claim first day. And I didn't see anyone too suspicious of me? Only you had a vote on me .. and that was quite ironic . I've played enough to know that you'll be suspected at one period or another anyways whether you're town or scum, lurks or be active.

[nopointinactingup]

Also I am not attacking you am I? I just want to help a townie develop his reads, so please do not get sarcastic with me. Either way I don't care about that anymore.

How do you know he's a townie?

Nopoint- I would like a little more chatter from you.

Basically, I've never played with anyone in this game so it's really difficult for me to formulate opinions about who is genuine from who is not. But my universal mafia experience would give me a town vibe on hiphop, podium, and wicked. A scum tell from SSFB's piggybacking and a null tell from the rest. I'd be much more comfortable with my analysis in later days.

[nopointinactingup]

Also I am not attacking you am I? I just want to help a townie develop his reads, so please do not get sarcastic with me. Either way I don't care about that anymore.

How do you know he's a townie?

I am helping, please answer my question?

+ Other than that, I don't believe Spyrex's comment to my claim was anything worth discussing?? It's not even scummy to the least
+ SSBF claiming cop was utterly non-sensical. He isn't in L-1 and his votes on him aren't even clarified/ defended yet. Why would a cop claim quickly like that when the cop's role is to ensure his survival against NK? Though I totally distrust his cop claim, I'm against lynching him right now. Though I won't elaborate more, I think it's better to make our decisions about him the next day.

actually... yeah, he probably should investigate nopo... that would clear up the question.

assuming they aren't working together, of course.

What why? What would it clear up. It'd be a guilty no matter if he's scum or real cop.

[nopointinactingup]

I kind of just skimmed this, but

SSBF is lying. I'm a gunsmith.

It's another reason I was pretty suspicious of Nopoint's claim.

I hope I can post tomorrow, but I'm going to be out of town wed-fridayish, might be able to post on wednesday.

Sorry if I'm new to this T_T, but doesn't it take a night for you to figure out that he's lying? And why do you also claim quickly like that You could be kill tonight and won't be able to prove my innocence This claim is as non-sensical as SSBF's cop claim.

Oh, if ssbf is lying, the miller is a fake.

Explain this please Because I highly suspect SSBF of lying AND know myself to be the real miller?

[nopointinactingup]

@Charter:
How sure are you that gunsmith and cop don't co-exist in a game?
Doesn't the existence of a gunsmith increase the probability of the existence of a miller?

[nopointinactingup]

I do not know if he is a townie. I thought that maybe he would be more likely townie, because he stated that you were indeed a townie. Not just a simple I think this guy is town, but more of a confirmation. And to me that seemed like a genuine town move, because he is willing to lock someone in as town. However things have changed, It looks that he did not confirm that you were a townie, but more of a we'll see. Which of course moves his town tell into a null tell.

As for the explaination of my assertion that nopo wanted me to address- I do not know if you are town. Nor will I ever know unless Charter(the gunsmith) investigates you, to see if you have a gun or not. Millers do not have guns right? So from my point of view, if there is no cop(no counter claim) then no miller either. Because then what is the good to having a miller?

I'm not just a miller, I'm a death miller ( guilty even in death ), thus my role can be manipulative even without the cop. But I agree with your overall analysis. I think it is better to decide whether we should lynch a claimed power role the next day instead of today. That way, we can minimize our risk and get a better read on them ( even if one happens to get NK-ed it's better than a myslynch ). Though I still don't think SSBF and Charter should have claimed so fast if they are town ..

Unvote

*Charter's role is probably the only way to figure out if nopoint is town or not. Therefore, I think charter should investigate nopoint, and I also think a protective role should protect charter. That way we will most likely learn if nopoint is on our side or not. I think this was said by a few other players already, but I also think that it will probably be a good idea for SSBF to investigate charter.

Given there are strong investigative roles in this set-up already, I doubt there will be a protective role as well. That's why I'm furious with Charter's claim, which he thought was a counterclaim but in fact doesn't say anything at all. Charter could and should have laid low and investigated further before claiming. If he gets NK today, which would probably be the case, I would never be proven town



The above of course answers you question that you had to Podium on why you should be investigated. As you probably can tell now, he wasn't referring to the cop, but to the gunsmithh.

And Podium, I really do not care whether the question was referring to you, you were agreeing with me, so technically nopo was asking me a question through you.

As for why I didn't counterclaim miller, that's stupid. I'm not going to out myself after a claim that's scummy all on it's own and doesn't need any help. And plus, I've been in a game with a gunsmith and miller (though the setup was pretty horrible). You don't see how countering after death miller and cop are different situations?

Except for the fact that most people found it un-scummy. Once this was evident, I would find it more likely that you would conterclaim a miller instead of a cop. I will explain this farther down.

I didn't vote because I have no idea what the votecount is, didn't want to quickhammer.

Just like Podium's statement, I find this bs. 2 reasons

1.If you are absolutely sure of yourself that someone is scum, which in this case you are, then wouldn't you want to lynch scum? Unless of course you don't want the town to get in an uproar, that you are mislynching a townie?

2. Even after I call you out on it, you still don't vote.

Now I am more fishy of the SSBF claim, mostly because I am bias, but Charter is really spitting out scum tells. I am just not sure of what to do at this moment.

ssbf SSBF that is what I am asking. And sorry if I rushed your analysis, but I live in real time, so that is what i kind of expect. I find SSBF's explanation to be protown mainly because if he were town, wouldn't a townie have those reasons? If I am wrong please take one of his 4 reasons(two on the top and two on the bottom) in the post I just linked and tell me why a townie would not do it. Or you can just tell me any reason why a cop wouldn't claim there?

By the way SSBF- please do not bring mini 955 in, you were at L-1 and you gave your farewell speech that you would try to do better in the next game(as in you already threw in the towel) yet you did not make any step toward actually claiming what you really were.

I am still unsure. I gave ssbf points on his explanation, but I also gave charter points on his counter claim. Both have given scumtells, yet both look promising as town too. I believe they are both real. Will explain at the bottom of this post.

Ssbf analysis There is one mis-fact. On the part that you said it took Almaster 5 days to catch up, you will find that most of that time was moving day. (Or how short is your memory?) So hence his catching up post became from the next day(thread was closed) until he could make it. So you can't find him scummy like that at all. Notice how you didn't post for 4 days of that time either. Are you scummy for that?

Also I am not liking the fact that people keep grouping me with scum-Podium.

wicked I meant buddying in the form of following. So yea pretty sure he was attempting to buddy.

1. Why do you think he is town? I didn't realize you thought nopoint was town. I don't think SpyreX's stance on the miller claim makes hardly any sense, but I didn't know/remember what your stance was.
2. Yeah. I bs'd those reasons. But seriously, I found SpyreX more suspicious when I switched my vote.
3. All I've learned from the game in which I lost to a miller is that I need to be more wary of scum claiming miller. I don't look at him in a scummy light because he claimed miller nor do I think he looks like town for claiming miller. I am not going to judge nopoint based off of his claim, but based off of his behavior.

1. Pretty sure you have been skimming my posts. Why do i write these things if nobody is going to read them. Wicked you will find my stance here when the miller first claimed. READ IT.
2. Skipping- will answer it after 3.
3.Yea pretty sure Spyrex said the same thing here
So back to 2. If Spyrex has the same view that as you, yet you find that view to be still scummy, does not that make you scummy too? So are you saying you are scum?

Also Wicked there is a difference between that game's miller and our game's miller. The biggest difference is that in that game the claimed miller waited until after the cop investigated and got a guilty before claiming. In our game the cop has not investigated nopo, and better not, we now have a saved investigation, which can be used somewhere else. Hence pro-town. And that alone is big.

(kind of liked the Russell Hantz avatar better)

Spyrex disagree completely. Charter has been one of the lurkers in this group, therefore anti-town, and SSBF's claim was 2 days before the original stated deadline. Pretty pro-town timing to me. Or are you saying that he should claim the day of deadline? Want a scramble?

however, I like to kill issues like this before they blossom out of control or its a welp.

So you want to take the chance of killing a pr, before it can be used?

Ok now for why I think there is a Miller, cop, and, gunsmith at this juncture.

First off read gunsmith Notice how it say that cops have a gun. I am looking at cops go with a gunsmith. Look at it this way. When a cop investigates he gets a result. The cop cannot be absolutely sure of that result because of a godfather, being sane, miller, etc. What does a gunsmith have to make sure his results are not accurate. Well there could be a cop, or a vig. That is it. So yes I can believe if there is a gunsmith that there is indeed a cop too.

Take a look at this scenario- cop and gunsmith do not claim day one. Gunsmith investigates cop some night beyond. Gunsmith comes out and says he has a gun. Cop says I am a cop. Who would believe him? Looks a lot like someone to fake claim. Right? Cop gets lynched. a mislynch for scum. Puttng scum in better position to win. I mean look at what is happening now. You guys are arguing that one of them is scum. Surely the way it sounds most of you want one of them lynched. Hence a mis-lynch for town. My point is proven. Guys are you not going to give them a chance at all to use their roles? Are you going to take the chance of lynching a powerrole day 1? Are you scum? Seriously. Stop arguing that you want to lynch a PR. Unless of course you are scum, then by all means keep arguing and put your vote down. Prove to all the townies that you are indeed scum.

My explanation as to why there if there is a cop, and gunsmith then there is a good chance there might be a miller- Did anyone read my link on claiming miller? Clearly a miller is put into the game to help create a mislynch. Hence to make the sides more equal. Unless you guys have a better reason. Cop investigates miller. No explanation necessary. Mislynch. If there are both invetigative roles in this game, wouldn't that put favor towards the town winning? Wouldn't a miller balance it out some. Couple that with, the gunsmith mislynching the cop, I would say there is a good chance for scum to win. Wouldn't you? Of course we could be so tilted one way, that there could be a vig too. Another mislynch?

Nopo, a little more chatter.[/quote]

[nopointinactingup]

I do not know if he is a townie. I thought that maybe he would be more likely townie, because he stated that you were indeed a townie. Not just a simple I think this guy is town, but more of a confirmation. And to me that seemed like a genuine town move, because he is willing to lock someone in as town. However things have changed, It looks that he did not confirm that you were a townie, but more of a we'll see. Which of course moves his town tell into a null tell.

As for the explaination of my assertion that nopo wanted me to address- I do not know if you are town. Nor will I ever know unless Charter(the gunsmith) investigates you, to see if you have a gun or not. Millers do not have guns right? So from my point of view, if there is no cop(no counter claim) then no miller either. Because then what is the good to having a miller?

I'm not just a miller, I'm a death miller ( guilty even in death ), thus my role can be manipulative even without the cop. But I agree with your overall analysis. I think it is better to decide whether we should lynch a claimed power role the next day instead of today. That way, we can minimize our risk and get a better read on them ( even if one happens to get NK-ed it's better than a myslynch ). Though I still don't think SSBF and Charter should have claimed so fast if they are town ..

Unvote

*Charter's role is probably the only way to figure out if nopoint is town or not. Therefore, I think charter should investigate nopoint, and I also think a protective role should protect charter. That way we will most likely learn if nopoint is on our side or not. I think this was said by a few other players already, but I also think that it will probably be a good idea for SSBF to investigate charter.

Given there are strong investigative roles in this set-up already, I doubt there will be a protective role as well. That's why I'm furious with Charter's claim, which he thought was a counterclaim but in fact doesn't say anything at all. Charter could and should have laid low and investigated further before claiming. If he gets NK today, which would probably be the case, I would never be proven town

[/quote]

[nopointinactingup]

Right now I think we should do No-Lynch because it can give a better chance of verifying the power roles the next day. I know I know ppl will be No-Lynch is anti-town and stuff but I do think in this particular situation, it would do us good.

@Mod: Do Town Millers have gun?

Mod Edit: I'm unable to answer that question.

[nopointinactingup]

@Hiphop: I can think of apparent benefits of No-Lynch but I guess if I rethink, it really is anti-town. The reason I have no vote right now is the my biggest suspect has PR claimed. Podium's wording doesn't tell much in my opinion, and it's probably the only close-to-suspicious things he have said so far so I'm not willing to lynch him. Plus he wrote that right after Charter said

SSBF is lying. I'm a gunsmith.

so it's really understandable he could say something like that in agreement with a counterclaim.

Vote: Crypto

because I'm also uneasy with his lurking in recent posts.

[nopointinactingup]

Right Day1 like I really have something to contribute that much. I told you I'm not the kind to make analysis on Day1 because I think it's easy for me to be right as it is to be wrong. If you guys are measuring the amount of scum-hunting and "doing something" in Day1 then you are obviously either bluffing or think you're doing more than you're really doing. Lynching me will certainly put you guys in a huge disadvantage and you know exactly why.
@Cryto: The moment someone call your name you wag your tail and come out huh? And I didn't say you were lurking the entire game but I'm most uneasy with your bluff and contentless posts. Right now I don't have an obvious scum candidate like many of our "professional" scum hunters do, so I'm actually not willing to lynch anyone. But your over-defensive posts is noted.
@Hiphop: If you think I'm scum because I defended Podium then your scum-hunting is obviously going the wrong direction. And now your hypocripsy is bringing you to "let's lynch our scum miller claimer" huh? I wonder what ever happened to your reasonable self when you want to lynch me? What will lynching me solve except for more confusion for the town. I flip mafia, you still don't know if I'm town or mafia. We have a damn gunsmith for god sake, or are you afraid he might find out my real identity?

[nopointinactingup]

Well someone hasn't been paying attention to the thread.

[nopointinactingup]

@Hiphop: I can think of apparent benefits of No-Lynch but I guess if I rethink, it really is anti-town. The reason I have no vote right now is the my biggest suspect has PR claimed. Podium's wording doesn't tell much in my opinion, and it's probably the only close-to-suspicious things he have said so far so I'm not willing to lynch him. Plus he wrote that right after Charter said

SSBF is lying. I'm a gunsmith.

so it's really understandable he could say something like that in agreement with a counterclaim.

Vote: Crypto

because I'm also uneasy with his lurking in recent posts.

[nopointinactingup]

I think claiming miller is scummy (since there's way more benefit to claiming it as scum than town). Everyone else not thinking his claim is scummy doesn't have much bearing on what I think. Plus, I find his play pretty suspect as well.

Nopo is at L-4. Vote with me.

Sure,

Vote:Nopointinactingup

[nopointinactingup]

(= I can't believe you still want to lynch me if you are gun smith. It's like "yeah I can find out for sure if he's scum or not tomorrow, but I don't need no confirmation for the town so just lynch him".

This town is hopeless, I don't oppose to being out of it.

[nopointinactingup]

You NEED to know who I am. That information is INVALUABLE to the town. The fact that these dubheads are pushing for my lynch ( which would result in nothing but -1 townie .. ) clearly indicate they are either scums, or "professional scumhunters" who cannot find any reasonable lynch and resorted in the "follow me and lynch the claimed miller" to make themselves look protown.

[nopointinactingup]

I voted myself because I find hiphop and crypto's arguments hilarous and I was confident no one would follow such insensibility. I never thought that a rational gunsmith would be supporting my lynch (=

[nopointinactingup]

Then I guess it's no use talking to a wall.
Claimed Cop, Claimed Gunsmith, Lynch Miller on Day1, ahh what could be better. The scums are practically laughing by now.

[nopointinactingup]

@nopointinactingup: You originally claimed Miller. Then you later said "I'm a Death Miller". Why didn't you claim Death Miller during your Miller claim early in the Day? On top of that, I heard that Death Miller's role are controversial and extremely rare. Right now, I'm no longer believing nopointinactingup's claim.

Right Day1 like I really have something to contribute that much. I told you I'm not the kind to make analysis on Day1 because I think it's easy for me to be right as it is to be wrong. If you guys are measuring the amount of scum-hunting and "doing something" in Day1 then you are obviously either bluffing or think you're doing more than you're really doing. Lynching me will certainly put you guys in a huge disadvantage and you know exactly why.

1. I don't like how you're basically saying we don't have much to contribute. Now it is true that we have the least amount of information to work on Day 1, but I'm not going to let that stop me from finding scums.

2. Games can go a lot faster then this game and I'm talking about Mini Normal's. One ongoing game I'm in started after this game accumlated over 400 posts in Day 1 and is currently in Day 2.

3. hiphop said it best when he said that if you are a miller, town is still at an advantage with two investigative roles.

You NEED to know who I am. That information is INVALUABLE to the town.

Since I doubt you're a death miller, the only way to find out about your alignment now is to lynch you. If you're a miller, town still has a major advantage over scums.

I also realized that nopointinactingup has been acting defensive with his recent posts. Combined with his self-vote and I think nopointinactingup is a better lynch candidate then llamaeatataco.

unvote, Vote: nopointinactingup

L-1

My role is a Town Miller, but with an ability of a deathmiller, that is revealed mafia in lynch and investigation. Ask the mod if you want more clarification.
Now that I've found our scums,

Unvote

. Only the scums would fail to realize or fail to heed the consequence of lynching me.

FOS: Hiphop, Wicked, SSFB

Let's see I'd put SSFB above all, but he has a role claim.

Vote:Hiphop

[nopointinactingup]

My vote will move in the next few hours to try and ensure a lynch, as tonight will be my last posting pre-deadline. Lynching a claimed death-miller is a mistake I feel, but it's certainly better than a no-lynch. Nopo's 'I'm going to vote myself, ahah! anyone that voted me is scummy' is pretty silly at this stage as well, well it's silly at any stage, but it's stupid to play around like that so close to deadline, puts Nopo well up in scum-stakes.

How is a reaction test scummy, or silly?

[nopointinactingup]

WTF I just missed a whole page of reading and 4/5th of my posts fail to make it xD.
I have to agree with Podium. To me Hiphop and Wicked look the same and the scumtell Podium pointed out was strong. Don't be lazy people, change your vote NOW.

Vote:Wicked

[nopointinactingup]

I think it's both of you

[nopointinactingup]

Consequences? What? Let me explain something to you. A miller is nothing but a deranged VANILLA townie. If you are one, you get nothing but your voice and vote, just like any other VANILLA townie.

As for you saying that when you flip guilty the town will be confused- How so? You are guilty. it doesn't matter whether you are alive or dead. The town will still not know your alignment.

Your last vote on crypto was because he was lurking. Why are you any different? You say you cannot provide anything till day 2, why not him too? Go get a real case, and defense.

Anybody who is not on a wagon that is possibly heading for a lynch, should be looking at other wagons. That includes Sando, and Podium.

mod when exactly will deadline be on the 30th, because if it is in the morning, my last post of the day will be on the 29th.

1> I agree that I'm "deranged" and "anti-town" whatsoever but that's the mod job, not yours. My goal is to find scums and I will do it my way whether I win Mr.Popularity or not.
2> Tsk tsk, tunneling much? You're blowing your head up with the possibility of me being scum. The truth is not YOU or anyone knows whether I'm scum or not except me so stop with the irrationality. The only way everyone would know my alignment is an investigation, not a lynch, Duh

I think it's both of you

Why? And don't tell me a reason that basically sums up to OMGUS.

It's not OMGUS, it's OBVIOUS . Why would a town want me lynched for the mafia benefit? Don't get it wrong, I like you and all but I see you and Wicked as most likely scum candidate so I vote you and him.

People, more talk on the scumtell Podium pointed out about Wicked and less on kicking each other from the behind please, and that means you too Wicked. I personally think Podium's reasoning is too legit to ignore today, combined with my previous suspicious makes me want to lynch Wicked.

[nopointinactingup]

Pointless arguments...

let's look at the potential candidate each person is willing to vote:
Podium: Wicked/Sando
Crypto: Wicked/Almaster
Nopoint: Wicked/Hiphop/Sando
Spyrex: Podium/ Llama
Charter: Llama/ Podium/ Nopoint/ SSBF
Almaster: Podium/ Llama/ SSBF
Hiphop: Nopoint/ Sando
Sando: Llama/ Nopoint
Wicked: Nopoint/ Llama/ SSBF
Llama: Sando
SSBF: Nopoint
Hayker: Everyone

So we have ( in order from fewest to most numerous )

1 for Almaster
1 for hiphop
3 willing forWicked
3 for Podium
3 for SSBF
4 for Sando
5 for Llama
5 for Nopoint

So in the case no one objects to this list or changes their mind, we will have to lynch either me or Llama, make your choice.

[nopointinactingup]

I'm not going to be here the whole day, so

Vote:Sando

[nopointinactingup]

@hiphop: Huh?

[nopointinactingup]

nopo i don't like clicking submit twice.

No, what's this supposed to mean?

[nopointinactingup]

Right. But how would I know if you're posting or not o_0?
Hiphop and Podium have been scumpartners?

[nopointinactingup]

Why don't you think Sando will flip scum AGM? Are you trying to build false town cred?

[nopointinactingup]

Oh. I directed it at Sando, who called my self-voting scummy and silly. But he's dead.

[nopointinactingup]

@hiphop and llamaeatataco: I disagree that we get nothing out of a llamaeatataco lynch.

From investigating AlmasterGM, I got a Town result from him. AlmasterGM claims that he investigated llamaeatataco and got a Mafia result from him.

If llamaeatataco flips scum like AlmasterGM said, then that means I am insane cop and AlmasterGM is scum. If AlmasterGM is wrong and llamaeatataco is town, then he is insane cop.

With charter, we can hit one scums and look for connections with other scumbags based on evidence. Lynching llamaeatataco runs the risk of hitting a townie, but if llamaeatataco is scum, then AlmasterGM is scum as well. Basically, we potentially have two scums caught. If llamaeatataco is scum, then town can wrap up a game without a mislynch. I'm willing to take this risk.

Vote: llamaeatataco

If llama flips scum, we can be sure the AGM is the real deal (

not scum

) and you're probably the fake or the insane ( more probably fake )... But right now, despite AGM's result, I'm almost sure that you are scum, not the cop.

Right now, we obviously have a lot of PR in this set-up ( scum and town alike ), thus with the Insane Cop/ Sane Cop likelihood, I do

not think

we should lynch Llama yet ( people's reasoning for lynching him is basically because AGM got a guity on him or to use him as a scapegoat to find potential scum ). I believe he is town and lynching him would either give us no information whatsover and give the scums more reasons to WIFOM themselves over this set-up and its possibilities. Think about it, what kinda scum would place his vote on his Godfather then disappear, sworn never to alter his vote for the day? AT these kinds of set-up, I do not think we can trust in the cop's result as much as we trust in our scum hunting. I, and I'm sure most of you, find SSBF most blatantly scummy. Thus, there's no reason to keep being soft on him because of his cop claim. Charter (claimed gunsmith ) was roleblocked but Podium was killed, Not SSBF, our claimed cop. This did not happen because of conspiracy, it happened simply because SSBF is scum. Hence, all those voting for Llama,please go back and reconsider your opinion. The scums expect us to take the easiest way out.

With that I place my Day 2 vote on

Vote:SSBF

.

[nopointinactingup]

Arrggg left behind heaps of posts T_T.
Alright, that was a nice catch by Podium and those who didn't agree with him are currently on the top of my scum list. Of course a scum could buss his godfather in the end but I doubt it's from the beginning of the wagon. This means I'm looking at you: Charter, AGM, SSBF Wicked, Spyrex and even Crypto (for not voting).

Nopo- sorry for the push. I now know you are town.

Of course you do, and you were tunneling on me like a wolf on a sheep.

Are you doubting your result?

No I am not. I am confident that AlmasterGM is town. Just that I currently don't buy the cop claim. I also have yet to see a Mini Normal with two cops, regardless of variations. However, the evidences that you provided is something to look over.

What is he a lying townie?

He could potentially be lying, but town has no reasons to lie, especially not about there role. If me and AlmasterGM are truly town, this can be proven if llamaeatataco flips scum/AlmasterGM flips town.

What is this? You said you doubt that both you and AGM are cops, then go on to say AGM is town but unlikely to be lying. Does this mean you think yourself as scum because AGM can only be town and unlikely lying if he's really cop.

Are all of you serious right now? Look at the two stories, objectively:

Story 1: There are two scummy players. One claims cop when under pressure and narrowly avoids a lynch (a traditionally strategic play as scum. The other escapes as well, but gets investigated that night and is found, somewhat unsurprisingly, guilty.
Story 2: There are two cops in the game, one is insane and one isn't. There is also a death miller, a Godfather, and a gunsmith. There are two scummy players; one of them just happens to have the sane cop, the other is actually town but flips innocent because one of the cops is insane. Also, the scum decided not to kill or roleblock the claimed cop, even though they just lost their Godfather and so he could now conceivably out all of them.

If you believe Story 2 over Story 1 you are out of your mind. Llama was scummy yesterday and there's NO reason to believe he ISN'T scum except for the word of a scummy, counterclaimed cop spouting the absurd Story 2. What we today is obvious: lynch llama.

There's also a Story 3, in which SSBF is scum, Llama is town and that you are Insane, which I'm more inclined to believe in.
And besides that we also have stories in which you are scum or lyncher ... Bedtime story anyone?

[quote="hiphop]
Not sure exactly. Maybe he wanted to get it out, but like I said the piece of paper said how to appear innocent to cops. Not the cop, but cops. Of course it could be just flavor. Though I would think if there was a gunsmith, it might have said something like they found a gun on him.
[/quote]

I don't think the flavor catch is valid. The mod probably wrote "cops" to mean in general, people with investigative ability. Who would write something as blatant as "appear innocent to the cop" ? ( Cops is used more for generalization than the cop right? )

@hiphop: No I am not lying about my result. However, thinking about it, I am starting to consider that the situation you presented is very well possible.

And another thought. If we lynch charter ToDay, this lynch will most strongly reflect SpyreX. I say this because SpyreX has many times suggested that I am lying but charter is not, indicating that they are more likely of the same alignment then others here. Given that flavor evidence provided by hiphop, which favors a cop role over a gunsmith role, charter is more likely to be scum. If a charter scum flip happens, I will investigate SpyreX Night 2.

It's not just SpyreX. Clearly, if anyone had to choose between you are Charter at that time to lynch, we'd choose you as the liar. Your play rakes of scumminess, even your cop claim.

o.0 wtf?

how about this: alamaster is lying scum and ssbf is just a fail insane cop. You see, as long as that is a possibility, lynching me will prove nothing.

If AGM is scum, I don't think he'd out himself like that considering the scum didn't kill our claimed cop or claimed gunsmith. If he was anti-town, he's more likely lyncher, who would show innocent to cops right?

so you're saying that scum can never trick the town by being daring? That a ballsy claim completely erases a whole game of scumminess?

I would say I'm typically daring, but not that daring

[nopointinactingup]

However SSBF's action of saying Almaster is innocent,

after

almaster's claim, rattles my cage. Why as scum would he do that? i really do not think scum would do that.(wifom)

Why vote Charter base on a WIFOM? He could easily have done that to mislead you.

i have been thinking about those two things for the last two days, yet I do not buy three cops. And I don't care what alignment they are, there are not three cops in this game.

SSBF's report, for me anyways, solidifies Almaster town. So scum is among one of the other 2.

From the way Charter counter claim SSBF, Charter and SSBF has different alignment. From the way AGM counter claim SSBF, AGM and SSBF has different alignment.
Thus, Charter and AGM are of the same alignment while SSBF is of a different alignment --> SSBF = Scum CC.

Also something that catches my eye is that Charter was supposedly roleblocked. Therefore if he were scum, no confirmed townies. Didn't somebody yesterday on the SSBF wagon say they didn't want to go through SSBF saying he was rb'd day after day. Yet it wasn't SSBF that said he was RB, it was Charter. Granted of course a roleblocker is common, but the fact that it was said before the night, and then he comes out and says it, irks me.

Charter could very well be really role blocked. The only reason why SSBF wasn't roleblocked is that he's scum.

Guys think about this- Charter's claim does not match with the setup. Godfather, Miller. Are you saying that a gunsmith is in the game? I don't think so.

What's wrong with a Cop/Gunsmith/Godfather/Miller set-up ?

Roleblocking charter would've been the best move for scum to make since if here were gunsmith he'd be crucial to determining nopo's alignment.

On the other hand, they could just kill him. Hmm.

I would think differently. From the way I supported Podium to lynch Sando, most people would be more sure that I'm town already. Charter investigating me would only substantiate that town read a tiny little bit more. Whereas, if SSBF was the real cop, he should have been role blocked because he would have been potentially dangerous for the scum. That's why I think that a Charter role block would more indicate SSBF scum ( is SSBF is scum then the only town power role they know would be Charter and thus it makes sense to block Charter ).
And as for why they didn't just kill him. I don't know, maybe they thought role block was enough. Or maybe they were more afraid of Podium's read ..

[nopointinactingup]

@AGM and Spyrex:You want to lynch Llama. But how would you account for his townish play so far?
As a matter of fact, answer to this -->

I do

not think

we should lynch Llama yet ( people's reasoning for lynching him is basically because AGM got a guity on him or to use him as a scapegoat to find potential scum ). I believe he is town and lynching him would either give us no information whatsover and give the scums more reasons to WIFOM themselves over this set-up and its possibilities. Think about it, what kinda scum would place his vote on his Godfather then disappear, sworn never to alter his vote for the day? AT these kinds of set-up, I do not think we can trust in the cop's result as much as we trust in our scum hunting. I, and I'm sure most of you, find SSBF most blatantly scummy. Thus, there's no reason to keep being soft on him because of his cop claim. Charter (claimed gunsmith ) was roleblocked but Podium was killed, Not SSBF, our claimed cop. This did not happen because of conspiracy, it happened simply because SSBF is scum. Hence, all those voting for Llama,please go back and reconsider your opinion. The scums expect us to take the easiest way out.

And how do you account for the probability of you being insane?
What would Llama flip tell you?

Guys think about this- Charter's claim does not match with the setup. Godfather, Miller. Are you saying that a gunsmith is in the game? I don't think so.

If there's a roleblocker then it would really fit the tittle "Madness" ..
[/quote="charter"]
If I was scum, why would I just not say that Nopoint has a gun?
[/quote]
Simple, because we'd be lynching you first if you claim I have a gun.

I'm not following any of your other accusations against me.

I've been in a game with a gunsmith and a miller, probably multiples

. You're just speculating on the setup to try and lynch me.

Hmmm .. I seem to remember you said that you were suspicious of my miller claim in Day 1 because you were gunsmith and you believe gunsmith and miller don't go together in a game.

Though I have definite suspicion of Charter, I still think we should lynch SSBF, who's not even trying to defend himself right now. Right now, Charter and SSBF can provide the most insights on what this set-up can be ( of course 1 of them is scum ), so I'd really appreciate it if they get their ass here and tell us what's going on.

[nopointinactingup]

Wait something's fishy. Since Charter's scum, I thought we have no roleblocker? So why does AGM get No Result?

[nopointinactingup]

No one is saying I can't be scum or you can't be scum. But how can I be scum o_0?
Ok now this is confusing me.
SSBF has mafia result on Charter --> SSBF = Sane Cop --> AGM = town = insane cop = telling the truth.
So why didn't the mafia use roleblock on the 1st round on SSBF?
We probably only have 1 scum left so let's figure out a safe bet for this.
Players left are: SSBF, AGM, Spyrex, hiphop, Wicked, Nopoint, Crypto.
Of whom, AGM and SSBF are pretty much confirmed town.
Spyrex most likely.

Vote:Spyrex

[nopointinactingup]

I just did an ISO on Spyrex. He never voted for Sando or Charter ( cept for the reasonable buss ) or considered a Sando/Charter lynch. He considered Charter town and once he laid out a list of who to lynch with 5 people including SSBF the claimed cop, but not Charter or Sando. Although he defends me throughout the game, I don't have a soft spot, I think we've just found ourselves the last scum. Iso yourself to believe

[nopointinactingup]

Hold on, I'll iso Crypto after lunch xD

[nopointinactingup]

Yeah ... My bad, Crypto's play is kinda cryptic. And an iso on him proves that there is an even clearer connection between him and the confirmed scums. In addition, he didn't hammer Sando and voted Llama for almost no reason.

Unvote.Vote:Crypto

Now that's better.

[nopointinactingup]

First of all, I don't get this, "omg it HAS to be SpyreX by process of elimination" argument. The only people in my mind who are actually legit cleared are SSBF and nopoint. Crypto, hiphop, and Wicked could just as easily be scum as SpyreX.

And, from my perspective, I'm town and SpyreX has made a lot of arguments that made sense to me. And you can't just say "it's buddying." I logically agree with his thought process. This means 1) I'm not inclined to think he is scum because of arguments he's making, because those could just as easily apply to me and 2) He hasn't really done anything else particuarily scummy, so I have no reason to suspect him over anyone else.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: Wicked

Yesterday, he expressed STRONG feelings that llama ws town.

After Sando flipped scum I was 90% certain that llama was town. I think Almaster is insane if he is really a cop.

I have no idea why you guys are voting Llama, but I am 99% positive that he is town. @Everybody on the Llama wagon – Do you actually think Llama makes sense as one of Sando’s scumbuddies?

Both of these reads came DESPITE a cop claim to the contrary. To explain the reads, Wicked argued that I'm insane and SSBF is telling the truth. All becuase llama HAS to be town. What's odd, though, is that this was a COMPLETE reversal of his reads from the day prior.

I am getting a town read off of hiphop so far for reasons that podium mentioned.

I'm getting a bad feeling from each of the following:

llamaeatataco
Sando
Super Smash Bros. Fan

So, according to Wicked, because Sando flipped scum, suddenly:

1) I'm insane cop
2) SSBF is now a sane cop, not scum
3) And Llama is town.

Instead of the much simpler, more cohesive theory of

1) Llama is scum.

The switch here makes absolutely no sense ... but he somehow ended up being RIGHT. To me, this looks like he knew what the flips were going to be ahead of time and decided to base his reads accordingly ... without checking what his prior position was. Which is what lead to the logical incoherence.

Your case is logical to some extents, but why didn't you suspect any of me and hiphop because we were also saying Llama is definitely town yesterday as well. And though Wicked didn't pursue a Llama wagon, he was pursuing a Charter wagon, and what good would that do to him if he was scum? I'd expect him to pursue an SSBF wagon or some other wagon that wouldn't override the Llama wagon if he was really scum.

This is a good question. We have to remember that charter flipped vanilla Mafia, which is the equilvalent of a Mafia Goon. The other scum flip, Sando, was from Day 1, who was a Mafia Godfather. With AlmasterGM being roleblocked, I assume that the last scum is indeed a roleblocker. The roleblocking probably isn't town-intended either, further solidfying my theory that the last scum could be a roleblocker.

Well what I simply mean is
- Charter(scum) claimed to be roleblocked on Day 2 ( SSBF wasn't roleblocked on Day1 despite his claim ) --> There was actually no roleblocking in Day 1.
- AGM claimed to be roleblocked on Day 3 --> There is a roleblocker since AGM is confirmed town.
See the discrepancies. Right now I'm assuming the scum didn't roleblock on Day 1 because they didn't want Charter to be counterclaimed-being-roleblocked by SSBF and they want the suspicion to rise on SSBF because he was neither killed or roleblocked. However, I'm glad I was wrong and that plan failed.

And would people please stop using POE. This isn't a multiple-choice test, very little is confirmed, and there's NO POE. There's just "people who you think are town" and "people who you think are scum."

That's right, do an ISO on crypto to see for yourself that he's scum. Spyrex also had a bit of a connection with Sando/Charter, but his post looks way more town.

[nopointinactingup]

Hiphop, chill out on that possibility. That possibility should only be considered tomorrow if we have a mislynch. But right now, I think there are enough scummy people around to conclude that SSBF is the real sane cop. Besides, the scums probably didn't roleblock on Night 1 because they want to set up for Charter legit claim of being roleblock like I said.

See the discrepancies. Right now I'm assuming the scum didn't roleblock on Day 1 because they didn't want Charter to be counterclaimed-being-roleblocked by SSBF and they want the suspicion to rise on SSBF because he was neither killed or roleblocked. However, I'm glad I was wrong and that plan failed.

Charter was counterclaiming SSBF right? So if he was roleblocked while SSBF wasn't and both still lives then the town will be more inclined to believe SSBF is scum. That's there plan, to get the town to lynch SSBF.

[nopointinactingup]

Spyrex, Iso Crypto.
Crypto, claim.

[nopointinactingup]

Hiphop, we are not having a SSBF lynch today because it is stupid.

[nopointinactingup]

SSBF is town because Charter tried to counterclaim him on Day1. It's my argument yesterday, Charter and SSBF can't be of the same alignment. And even on the off chance that he's could be scum, we should decide to lynch him tomorrow, not today.

[nopointinactingup]

Yeah ... My bad, Crypto's play is kinda cryptic. And an iso on him proves that there is an even clearer connection between him and the confirmed scums. In addition, he didn't hammer Sando and voted Llama for almost no reason.

For no reason? You're funny. You're also not paying attention. I'm too lazy to review your own reads this game, but there's a strong scent of hypocrisy in the air.

That's right, do an ISO on crypto to see for yourself that he's scum. Spyrex also had a bit of a connection with Sando/Charter, but his post looks way more town.

You reek of unearned ego. Somebody should please drop a hammer on me to put you in your place.

Ego is my name crypto. But I will not back down until you clearly point out why we shouldn't think you're scum instead of name calling and .. flailing I guess.

And by "2" I mean two scum total, one scum remaining alive.

AGM. Two scums are dead, and there is One scum left ( 3 in total ).

[nopointinactingup]

Ok. Crypto, Iso Spyrex. I'm in the mood for either of you + I'm being lazy = I'm looking for something that can persuade me.

[nopointinactingup]

@Hiphop: Your case is valid and in fact I pushed an SSBF lynch yesterday for the same reason. But with Charter revealed scum, I do believe SSBF-lynch needs consideration as below:
1> Why not decide for a SSBF lynch tomorrow if he's still alive? If he's the real cop the scum would put himself in jeopardy by leaving him alive. If SSBF is the last scum, we would have more reasons to believe he's scum since he's alive. ( And if he's roleblocked, AGM would not be ).
2> Take a look at his post #22, I think it's pretty much a town read ( despite his incessant scumminess later on ).
3> If there's no sane cop then what's the purpose of a godfather in the set-up?

[nopointinactingup]

Anyways I'm still not comfortable with lynching SSBF today. If what you insist is true, you're not going to die today, so you can push for SSBF lynch tomorrow. Right now let's just do one of Crypto/Spyrex.

[nopointinactingup]

@Mod: When the deadline.
@Everyone: Shall we do that listing again? This time 2 suspects for each player.

[nopointinactingup]

Forgot my input, but Duh. Spyrex, Crypto.

[nopointinactingup]

If what you insist is true, you're not going to die today, so you can push for SSBF lynch tomorrow. Right now let's just do one of Crypto/Spyrex.

why not ssbf today, and you can push for a Crypto/Spyrex tomorrow? Think about it. You lynch one today and it is a town flip, do you really think you would follow me to SSBF? NO. You obviously would go for the other. So why should I lynch people who you think are scum, and 2 days from now, most likely when i am dead, nobody pushes for a SSBF lynch? Today is the best day to push for it.

Ok. Tomorrow, state the entirety of your case on SSBF because though I find SSBF's behavior scummy, I'm just unconvinced that it could all just be a scum gambit. And I want everyone's opinion about hiphop's case as well. I personally think SSBF and AGM are pretty much role-useless now, so I actually don't mind lynching SSBF if I'm persuaded. But I think we should let this round go without an SSBF lynch. I think Crypto has the most approval to get lynched. Any last word/ last contribution if you are town?

[nopointinactingup]

With Crypto's last words, I'm more comfortable with a Spyrex lynch actually. Let's poll the whole thing.

Nopoint ( Spyrex, Crypto )
Spyrex ( Wicked, SSBF )
SSBF ( Spyrex, Crypto )
AGM (Wicked, Crypto )
Wicked ( Crypto, Spyrex )
Hiphop ( SSBF, Crypto )
Crypto ( Spyrex, Wicked )

Since there are no scum buddies anymore, anyone want to change this list? I'm thinking in order to adjust for the lynch preference of each person, the 1st gets 4 scum points and the 2nd gets 3 scum points. In the end, people with the most scum points get lynched?

[nopointinactingup]

Vote:Spryrex.

If he flips town then lynch SSBF tomorrow = town wins!

[nopointinactingup]

Actually. I think what he said meant he forgot to roleblock and he's angry about it. It would make him feel better if there was a town roleblocker. Just I think

[nopointinactingup]

Night Actions Night 1
AlmasterGM(Insane cop)-Llamaeatataco
Llamaeatataco(EBG)-SSBF(wicked if he was lynched, night action sent in early I thinks because of a V/la)
SSBS(Sane Cop)-AlmasterGM
Wickedestjr(RB)-charter
Mafia Kill-charter
Mafia RB(SpyreX)-Crypto

Night Actions Night 2(Special Thanks to Hoopla for discussing my mistake with me)
AlmasterGM(Insane cop)-SpyreX
Llamaeatataco(EBG)-hiphop
SSBS(Sane Cop)-charter
Wickedestjr(RB)-nopointinactingup
Mafia Kill-hiphop
Mafia RB(SpyreX)-AlmasterGM

Night actions Night 3
AlmasterGM(Insane cop)-SpyreX
Llamaeatataco(EBG)-no one
SSBS(Sane Cop)-SPyreX
Wickedestjr(RB)-SpyreX
Mafia Kill-AlmasterGM
Mafia RB(SpyreX)-SSBF

AGM. You found out Spyrex was scum since Night 2 ?

[nopointinactingup]

Town Miller

You are a vanilla townie,

who appears to be mafia by investigation and lynch

. Beyond this, you have your voice and vote in the day phase.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Isn't this Death Miller instead. I think Miller only appears mafia by investigation.