Mini 962 - Mafia In Murrieta - Over!

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/confirm

have fun peeps

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Vote AGM

because he is the only one here i have played with before.

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Mod: Votecount is kinda not right. Jackalope is on Saintkerrigan and the people you have one kerrigan are voting for agm

Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out Esp, royal mess up on my part ^_^

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Timezone: GMT+10 See my location.
Experience: A few games under my belt on here and many more on smaller forums not dedicated to mafia.
Post Rate: Depends on my mood. Sometimes I will be bored at uni so I will have this in the background answering everything anyone says. Other times I have other commitments that are surprisingly draining on the mind and so couldn't care less about mafia. Point to note is that I have never replaced out so you shouldn't have to worry about that unless something happens irl.

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Pulling us out of RvS early much.

Unvote, Vote: Jack

^Vote is as serious as the Joker. so very serious.

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Unvote: JackALope2323.

He definitely doesn't warrant an L-3 in my opinion. That being said, his remark to ICEninja about black-and-white statements is interesting. I don't think Ice's first response to Charter was ambiguous at all.

I also find it interesting that Charter jumped on a statement by ICEninja that I thought was clearly a joke (as indicated by my response to it). As stated earlier, I thought Ice's first response to Charter's question was clear enough, and not what I would define as ambiguous. I would be more wary of Charter for this, but I've seen him act similarly as town before.

I don't like Gecko's first "content" post. Suggesting Ice's chattiness will lead to over-aggression, and then equating that with scum-bullying, is just flat-out baseless speculation. It may be grounds for suspicion, but it should never be used to justify a vote. Also, the cheap shot near the end ("id like to see why you are so whipped up so early in the game, strategy or possibly anger that you are already getting ferretted out?") doesn't sit right with me.

Vote: Thegeckoj.

Ok now this is sus. L-3 being too close. WTH.
How do we get any really good discussion if we just let pressure disappear. I would have kept the vote there. If they handle the pressure well then you back off a bit but you at least allow enough time to get a reaction.

FoS: SaintKerrigan

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Why do you think it was only a FoS.

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Why give reasoning when it is pretty self explanitory. I have seen town lose simply because everyone got sick of trying to wade through all the long posts that could easily have been condensed into a few lines.
The fact of the matter is that the more you fluff up your posts the more you are showing that you feel the need to try and make your posts more credible by making them longer. Does that show a bit of uncertainty on the part of the poster? I don't know but all I do know is that unneccarily long posts are not helpful to town.

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Ok now this is sus. L-3 being too close. WTH.
How do we get any really good discussion if we just let pressure disappear. I would have kept the vote there. If they handle the pressure well then you back off a bit but you at least allow enough time to get a reaction.
FoS: SaintKerrigan

You're assuming that I was voting Jack to pressure him in the first place. My vote for him was a joke vote, and he didn't do anything to warrant me keeping my vote on him after the RVS was over. So I moved my vote somewhere more productive.

The whole purpose of placing votes in RvS is to build pressure. Even joke votes serve this purpose. i admit you had a reason to switch your votew but I still think that quoting L-3 as your first reason is a bit stupid. Especially at this point in the game.

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@SAMP: I wasn't suspicious of him so much because he swapped votes. More that he was scared of putting pressure on someone.

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Unvote, Vote: havingfitz

Get an opinion pleases.

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Then what is point of placing a vote in the first place?

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Both of those are results of pressure.

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FoS: Cruelty

You also need to get some opinions.

FoS: gecko

Anyone notice how he shut up now the votes are on him.

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I'm not speaking for AGM here but no matter what your stance on RVS it is throught the pressure of having a vote on you that we get information. Jokingly OMGUSing or forming light cases to get people of your back is what causes discussins to start. All of that can be brought back to pressure. That is what I was talking about before. The arguement is different now but and the original dispute has been resolved so I really don't know why we are still going on about this.

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I'm happy with my vote. I read fitz's reasoning and see OMGUS wrapped up in some fluff.

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Welcome. Looking forward to your promised big post.
I will make an exception to my never reading a post that is over 10 lines rule due to the circumstances.

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Someone ask me something. I'm bored and have gotten bored trying to read the long posts. Might do it if someone thinks I should.

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Out of all the questions you could ask. Ok I will have a read through so I can get some.

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My little list of isos. Half now half later. It is after 2:30am and I have to go house hunting tommorrow.
AGM - Goodposting for now. Looking forward to seeing his catch up post. Inactivity is a bit iffy though.
charter - Started the 'undermining' debate. In the not scumtell camp on that one.
cruelty - Early Lurking - points. Everything else + points.
Geko - I can see where he was coming from. However my FoS stands.
fitz - Scummy. Places a vote after too long and then disappears.
ICE - WoT hurts mine eyes. Seems ok but hard to get a read on him. To my just seems like a talkative townie.

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I'm happy with my vote. I am starting to get more and more scum vibes from Geko.

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Lol. I actually read your post for once.

First is the point I mentioned when I FoSed him. He completely closed up as soon as votes were put on him.
Now the thing that put me back on him was at the bottom of post 180. That little piece was a good catch by AGM and I agree with his veiw that it looks scummy. I may sound like I am parroting but I have every right to agree with someone elses suspicions.

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I'm reading. i just don't feel the need to comment.

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because I am currently on the fence. I felt no need to report it.

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Actually 167 was asked for.

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Ok here, will make a post in a sec.

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@fitz. I really am very sad everyone is pissed off with me. You really are quite scummy. That little case made on me was the worst thing added to my case and i really don't think that was neccessary. You wou have made a better impression by saying that you agree with the already stated case.

Responding to case

I said I was fencesitting because I was, am. Why do you look for a post when it is uneeded. If I have nothing to add then i have nothing to add and if you insist on me making a post then that is creating more mud everyone has to wade through to actually ghet to the point of everything that is going on.

The main reason i don't like reading long posts is becausze i only get to play this while in lectures and free time. Seeing as I have alot of that but not usually all in one go means that while I may be active I don't have the time to read such long posts.

A little suggestion

And would it be so hard for people to make subheadings in their posts so that people can find what they want to from your posts. If you are going to write an essay you need your topic sentances. Otherwise people can and will get lost.

And a little conclusion.

I really do think that fitz is scum. I really am on the fence in the great debates of this game and really can't be stuffed wasting my spare time reading the same points being made over and over. If it was a study break I would spend some time reading but sadly it isn't. And don't use that as a reason to say i shouldn't play because I can play just fine with the time I have. It just becomes difficult when people make things harder than they really should be.

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Did you read my post. There is a little subheading there for your convenience.

In short. Yes and I already said it.

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I am fencesitting because I have nothing to add. I have said that three times. Ok I have enough time. I could read whole posts but I choose not to. I have the time but as i said it is in little brackets and I want to do other things. If I deem it to be inhibiting my ability to play then I will either replace out myself or take more time. I have never had this difficulty before this game. My playing times haven't changed either. That tells me that this is an isolated case with alot of heavy posters not that I need to stop playing.

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fitz and scott and cruelty.

Now to Hoopla's question. Yeah I read the last page. You should all be thankful my current tutor can't teach.

Well we had RVS and I have already shown my opinion on that. Then came the long arguements which I skimmed over so sadly I can't comment there.
Then came the StK thing. Now I skimmed over the early stuff and have been trying to wade through the later stuff. Now the way I see it scum are sitting back and letting those guys argue. Pretty hypocritical of me but I am leaning towards the quieter people as the scummy people.

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Ok honestly i have a full scum read on 1 person. Hoopla asked for backups so i was forced to give a couple of weaker neutral reads.

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I don't really think this is a scum act. A scum would only do that in dire circumstances as far as I see it.

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StK: Are you going to give this up? If not I will vote for you to stop this thing but I don't think you are scum and I don't really want to do it.

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StK may not be pro town with that. But it isn't scummy either.

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StK: Are you going to be moving your vote somewhere to get that lynch on you to stop?

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Well that's the thing. I only really have 1 lynch target at the moment. All others are covered under the blanket of bad vibes. I have presented my case on fitz. I stick with it and I still think he is scum even if he has been good posting as of late. It will take a bit more than that for me to be overly happy with another lynch.

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At Jack. Anti-Town Play and Scummy play are two completely different things. Learn your game theory bud. They might not both be helpful but they are not one and the same.

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Talking from my experiences the three times that someone has self voted in my games it has been a townie.

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Deadline is in a few days, there are no possible secondary wagons at the moment. Who is ready to step up to the plate and swing?

Well seeing as the only other option for todays lynch is me.

Unvote, Vote: StK

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No to be fair I was the secong choice of most people on that wagon. Magna even said that his first act tomorrow will be to vote me.

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I knew Kerrigan was town. I also know I am town. He claimed VT and therefore I saw no reason to let myself die. There was no way a scum was going to be lynched thanks to the only two wagons being pro-town players.

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Ok if you look at how late in the day it was you will realise that we were approaching deadline.

Going by standard Votecount scumhunting procedure that means that there is a better than likely possibility that Jack and scott are scum. Jack doesn't seem like scum to me at this point.

Vote: Scott

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My goodness. OMGUS already?

I like my vote.

And what do you mean "Standard votecount scumhunting procedure"?

Also, post 356 is quite possibly the scummiest thing I've seen all game.

"I don't want to die, so I'm going to hammer this wagon to make sure I don't get lynched."

Noice one.

The standard scumhunting procedure for analysis of votecounts is that the scummiest positions on the wagon are the L-2, L-1 and Hammer votes. Those positions belong to Scott, Jack and Me. I am obviously not going to be voting for me and Jack is alot more town that scott is.

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There have been cases made on Scott and if I were to compile the case on him I would just be parroting others. I have added a new layer to the case and acted on it.

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Well then my fellow townsfolk. Do we lynch me or do we lynch Scott. I believe that is the question of the day. Personally I would prefer a Scott lynch but then again that kind of goes without saying.

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Well then my fellow townsfolk. Do we lynch me or do we lynch Scott. I believe that is the question of the day. Personally I would prefer a Scott lynch but then again that kind of goes without saying.

Why are you giving up so easily?

I'm not giving up. I am just stating the obvious. There is still a chance that me and Scott are both town but I don't think he is. Therefore the point of the matter is that this day phase is pivotal. If you lynch me and get my town flip it will mean the scum is most probably Scott and two others. (Assuming a 3 mafia team, I have seen two and a traitor before but that is basically 3 mafia anyways.) If we lynch Scott and get his flip it will mean that the game can move forward. Most likely we will be in a good position with two scum left to find BUT if he flips town we will then fall back behind when the probable mislynch of me occurs as well as the mislynch of Scott if he is indeed town.

Scott is in my opinion the best lynch of the day. He has been scummy from day one with his opinions at the start of day one and there have been other factors of his play that have been scummy as well along the way. The other good reason is that his lynch lets town get forward. We get him as scum and we can move on. If he is town then we know that the scum lies in the people setting up the town v town day two.

I am by no means trying to close the day early, just stating what the day will most likely boil down to. We should still let discussion continue so that we are in a better position tomorrow.

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@ Jack. I know my alingment and therefore can knock out the possibility of myself being scum.

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Why would my defending StK count as a scum point. Wouldn't jumping on the easy target be better. At least i tried to save a town when everyone was too stupid to see it was a townie in distress and not a scummy gambit.

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When I said StK was town I backed it up with evidence.

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I mean where I pointed out that I have never seen a scum Self-vote. And how I said that because of that I didn't think StK was scum. I was right but self preservation kicked in.

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@ Magna: There are self votes in anger and self-votes as AtE. The difference is where scum and town self-votes differ. The style in which that self vote was done made me even more sure of StK being town.

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All the other times the self-votes have been done in the same fashion. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that there are different executions of self votes. The other players that have seen scum self votes is a testament to that.

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I'm a Hider. I hid with Jack night 1.

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Why did I need to breadcrumb. Jack isn't under any suspicion. I didn't want to give my role away so I put that little point on him early today. I hid behind jack because I was pretty sure he was town. I was right.

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I'm honestly not positive how the hider mechanic works. If he hides behind scum, he dies, but if he hides behind town he's immune to night kill? What if he hides behind town and the townie is night killed. Does the hider die as well? Does hiding protect him from other night actions such as roleblocking?

In my role PM it says that I will die if my target dies and that I am only immune to night kills. So I'm assuming that a cop or tracker can still check on me.

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I really don't like the idea of hiding behind scott but if the town wants it I will oblige. Anyway if I am going to be letting town get a read on Scott tonight I will

Unvote

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I really don't like the idea of hiding behind scott but if the town wants it I will oblige. Anyway if I am going to be letting town get a read on Scott tonight I will

Unvote

Too bad. You don't have a choice. To the town, your death is just as informative as being alive tomorrow, as you're unable to be roleblocked. So you need to make sure you do whatever the town wants, so we can get accurate results.

How come I can't be roleblocked. Hider is a role is it not?

Anyways I will be out of action until Sunday most probably unless I can leech internet off my friend while I am at his place. I will try especially since I'm kind of at the center of discussion at the moment.

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Ok back. Will have a substantial post tomorrow when I don't have an assessment due in less than 6 hours.

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Now I will happily hide behind Scott. The reason i have misgivings is that I would prefer to hide behind people with a bit less likelihood of being scum so that there is a greater chance of my survival to the next night and thus able to clear or incriminate someone else. Now We may not be getting the opitimum result as in we haven't done anything with the scummiest player but at least this way we either catch someone who was under the radar or we can clear someone who can then work hard for town without having to fear a shock turn around in town mentality.

I have played with a couple of the alive players before so I might have a bit of a look to see if I can spot any meta that can point either way. Especially since one of those people is AGM who is under big suspicion at the moment.

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@Magna: I was saying that if I don't hide behind them then we haven't done anything active to catch them outside of threatening a lynch.

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Lynch: Scott, SAMP, not quite sure
Hide: Hoopla, Ice, Magna

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I will be V/LA until around Monday depending on how well my 18th goes.

Noted, thanks for the heads up

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Why am I never on the votecounts?

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I am baffled. Scott is town.

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Vote: Charter

Look at those two vote counts. In both cases Charter wasn't close to being lynched but had a mafia member on him. That looks like pretty safe bussing to me. Add to that AGMs point that the third scum lies in Charter, ICE and AGM we have a pretty bad looking situation for Mr Charter. I personally don't think AGM is Mafia at this point because of his interactions with the two confirmed Mafia. So I think we should go with Charter today, ICE tomorrow and then I hide with AGM or Hoopla in the interim to clear one of them.

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What is the possibility of Scum having a busdriver or something? That could explain why I wasn't killed, they may be trying to get me lynched by confirming town on scum.

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Come on. Look at all the information that has come out. There is nothing to counter my claim and yet you all want to kill a town power role before the claimed VTs.

btw I'm not a SK.

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Couldn't Unsight clear me tonight so we can get on with this thing?

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Couldn't Unsight clear me tonight so we can get on with this thing?

This smells to me like he is investigation immune.

You have the most to lose from my being town.

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If a jailor protects a power role can the power still work?

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Well couldn't I hide with someone we think is scummy. ICE jailkeeps Unsight, unsight investigates me and we can wrap this thing up tomorrow.

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My strategy was to draw an investigation then start clearing my scumbuddies. Then when that didn't work the idea was that cruelty would have an easy bus if he played it right and could win out the game. The whole thing got shot to pieces when SAMP and cruelty both got killed unexpectedly.

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I have no qualms with it being put up but the others have to agree as well.

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Just need SAMP to agree.