Mini 946 The new Zachtown (Game Over!)

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: Alex

Why haven't we lynched him yet?

[DeathRowKitty]

3 pages the first real life day??? Actual discussion??? *checks playerlist* Oh, hello Vi.

Well - As you may have noticed, Alex, Cirdua and I have played together before, and it was both mine and Alex's first game. If there's one thing that game taught me, it's that Alex being a dumbass isn't a tell. It's just Alex.

So, I'm going to go ahead and Vote: Sotty
Only SCUM would get so defensive over spoilers! That happened in the very first episode! Such inconsistency is a definite tell.

Look forward to playing with you all

This is the first post of the game that I don't like. Whereas everyone else up to this point either ignored Alex's self-vote or joined in on the wagon, jeromus found it necessary to point out that Alex self-voting wasn't a tell in the RVS as justification for not joining the RVS wagon. Aaaaaand Vi beat me to it...

I would have something to say about this, but once again, Vi beat me to it. I see no reason the thought of two scum teams should cross a townie's mind.

@Lacey
Have you been in any games with two scum teams?

Also, Lacey's insistence on getting an answer to whether Vi prefers town or scum is disturbing, considering it has little relevance to the game at hand.

Interesting how Lacey comes out with a post on jeromus that looks like it's just meant to make a lot of noise, 4 minutes after jeromus responds to comments about him. What bothers me more is that Lacey suddenly decides jeromus is worthy of a vote after this post, despite not having voted him for his original post (I would expect her to be more likely to vote jeromus in or immediately after the RVS, when we had less to go on, rather than after we were already out of the RVS.).

Alex, could you please say or do something useful for once.

You could remove the self-vote for example.

I tried to defend you, honest, but if you keep doing these senseless things all the time I might get frustrated
I know you like to play this way, but could you try to act normal for once or are you gonna claim jester?

Me no like. Just reading this post puts me in a scum mentality. As scum, I usually pick one townie (not intentionally at first, but I go along with it once it happens) to be on good terms with. I won't vote that player, I'll try to be nice to that player, I may agree with that player more often, heck, I'll even defend that player if I can get away with it. It seems to me like Cirdua was setting up that kind of relationship with Alex for this game. This post just looks ridiculously forced, as if he's looking for excuses to buddy up to Alex a bit.

unvote: Jasper

I notice you didn't follow this up with a vote for someone else. Is there seriously no one you think deserves a vote at this point?

Speaking of which,

unvote, vote Lacey

[DeathRowKitty]

DRK is lurking. I know he's online.

Yes, he is online. And he desperately needs a day away from MS for personal reasons. Don't expect a game-relevant post today. Good day, sir.

[DeathRowKitty]

So first off, why did I talk about the game setup? I know folks aren't too fond of it for some reason, but check out my games on my wiki page. I always do it.

Will do.

This post from jeromus is setting off little bells in my head (note to self: remember to get head outfitted with bigger bells). The bulk of the post content-wise seems to be the stuff about his history with Alex and Cirdua, with the rest of it just an attempt to look like he's contributing - and failing spectacularly at it. Also interesting to note is that it only comments on votehopping and then goes on to say that votehopping isn't worth commenting on.

Alex is prob-town at this point. I spent a few hours in a recent game reading her meta (I was scum so I'm not sure exactly why I bothered >.<) and this looks a lot less like scum-Haylen, who tends to be very much more detached from games, than town-Haylen, who at least puts in an effort to be a part of the game. (I don't know about SK-Haylen, but that's not something to worry about right now.) That said, his PBPA was pretty much useless.

Uhhh....@Alex
Would you prefer "he" or "she"? I just realized I used different ones depending on whether I was referring to you as Alex or Haylen...

[

insert useful commentary on discussion of Haylen here

]

*site issues happen, I forget about this post for several hours* Oops...

Am I the only one who gets really bad vibes from Lacey's most recent big post? Lacey is doing a good job of being one step behind other players' thoughts without adding much of anything new, as if she's just waiting to see what will catch on before putting her support behind anything. I really don't like it.

I have a gut read on VP as scum, but nothing solid. I'll have to look back at him to see if I can find something more quantifiable.

Also, don't ask how, but I've somehow managed to forget what I think of...everyone who isn't active. Yes, several hours is enough to make me forget. I blame the internet. I guess I'll go reread the game >.<

I also want to read one or two of Lacey's games to get a feeling of her town-play. Until then, I find her to be the scummiest player in this game.

[DeathRowKitty]

Cirdua is scummy, but a Cirdua-vote his hardly bacon-worthy and the fact that a dog said it was disturbs me on a very deep level.

Right now, I'd probably put him right below Lacey and jeromus, who continues to post no content, even when asked directly for his opinion (on Cirdua).

If you need me, I'll be meta'ing Lacey.

[DeathRowKitty]

Jeromus is making more and longer posts with mostly filler without saying much of anything about the game. Cirdua is making fewer and shorter posts which, even if they're all about Alex, have some measure of relevance to something going on.

Basically, I see jeromus more as active lurking. That's not quite the term for what I'm getting at, but I think it gets the point across and I can't think of a better one.

[DeathRowKitty]

Cirdua, who are your top 3 picks for scum right now?

[DeathRowKitty]

Unvote

So apparently Lacey always comes across as trying too hard to seem pro-town >_>

Vote: Cirdua

His last post just bumped him up over jeromus. Bacon please.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, now we have to have reasons for our votes? Fineeeee.

I asked Cirdua for his top 3 picks for scum. Instead, he basically gave a PBPA of Lacey, most of which is blatant IIoA and much of which was more or less repeated from what others said. He also didn't vote for Lacey, despite implicitly claiming her as his top suspect. (I just checked and he hasn't actually voted yet this game.)

@Lacey
Why are you so willing to give up on your top suspect just to go with the general concensus?

[DeathRowKitty]

Nooooooo! Computer ate my first draft of this post. I. Hate. Rewrites. Don't expect much pep or spirit out of this. Pre-post edit: and don't expect me to complete this post. Second pre-post edit, a couple hours after the first: Could've sworn I posted this a couple hours ago...and now there's a wall of text to read

How did that bump him over Lacey and jeromus?

I thought my post was pretty self-explanatory

Did somebody say....counterwagon? Nothing like a nice policy lynch when we have legitimate scum candidates!

---

There's something about VP Baltar that's still really rubbing me the wrong way, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Looking into that today, tomorrow if I'm really lazy.

[DeathRowKitty]

How about you elaborate now? Not like there is a deadline pending.

I just iso'd you to do just that and found nothing. Bleh. I might actually have to re-read the game.

I'm not getting the Cathart wagon at all right now. It would be nice if someone who thinks Cathart is scum would explain it for the slow people like me.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well if nothing else, we're getting more posts to read some of the lurkers on. That is a good thing IMO.

Good, but unnecessary in this case, considering that unused days roll over to the next day.

Also, we'd be unnecessarily giving jeromus the chance to bus his buddy to look better.

@Jason
I don't even get a mention in your wallpost? After all we've been through? That hurts.

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: jeromus

. There's no way he isn't scum.

Let's take a look at some of his posting:

From his first post, we get the following gem:

Well - As you may have noticed, Alex, Cirdua and I have played together before, and it was both mine and Alex's first game. If there's one thing that game taught me, it's that Alex being a dumbass isn't a tell. It's just Alex.

I've already given my opinions on jeromus's post at the start of this post, so just read it there.

Posts 1-9 of his iso give no content on anything but the Alex situation (fine, a few of those posts were from double-posting, but still...)

We finally get something else from him in iso 10:

So - Enough about the past! I find Alex's post about vote hopping odd... Not enough to warrant a vote, but I don't see Vi votehopping as you seem to. I've very little to take fro this game thus far, hopefully a lack of sleep deprivation will assist tomorrow. I think very little of these accusations, other than to believe them to be invalid. I see no reason that votehopping is terribly worth commenting on, as a matter of fact, other than it doesn't give the town quite so clearly cut a view on where they're waggling their finger, in which case I can only recommend reading things that aren't bolded as well.

He decides to tell us about how he thinks the vote-hopping going on is interesting....only to finish up by saying that he doesn't find votehopping to be worth commenting on! Also, what I said at the start of this post

We then get another gem from jeromus. There's actual content in this one! Praise the lord! Let's look at the content:

Alex - In that same game, Alex played atypically and Cirdua got him/her/it/Idunno mislynched D-1. I bring this up to emphasise - I'm getting the vibe I got with Cirdua in that game from you, Lacey...Nothing to back that up, but my gut says this.

Oh, looks like that's it...a vibe from Lacey that's similar to the vibe he got from Cirdua-scum. Note that this is his most significant scumhunting up to this point (iso 12, 4 days into the game).

We then get another post exclusively about Alex's meta, followed by his new record-breaking scumhunting post. Here's his case on Alex:

So - With no further adieu - Vote:Alex

Even if it can't be meta'd as scum or town, your play is erratic. You act oddly and unpredictably, and that makes you a distraction to the town. It's like trying to investigate a case as a detective whilst dressed as a jester - You just distract the other officers at the crime scene.

People conform to the usual form of play because it works and you can build consistent rules to decide what is "Scummy" or not. You decide to "Screw the rules" (You have money), and that benefits either scum, or the player and noone else. Either way - The town loses for it.

We can't change how you play - Hell, you're too stubborn to listen to us; but we can change how we react, and, y'know, that whole "Conditioning" thing.
Negative reinforcement, motherfucker.

Yes, he did just vote Alex for being hard to read. Yes, this was while the Cirdua wagon was gaining strength. Yes, this was a convenient way to stay off the Cirdua mislynch wagon. Oh wait, did I assume too much?

Welp, that's it for now on jeromus.

---

[NK Flavor Speculation]

d3x

vanilla townie

was devoured on night one.

^ I assume this means we're likely dealing with wolves.

Looking at the other kill though, Sotty is NOT a likely vig target. Either we're looking at SK+wolf or mafia+wolf. If we lynch someone and they lynch mafia (of if someone gets NK'ed and flips mafia, Lacey-scum looks a lot more attractive after her two scum team comment.[/Speculation]

[DeathRowKitty]

Just realized:

Sotty7

vanilla townie

was shot in the head on night one.

SK's don't generally use guns. Unless SK's are known for devouring their victims, this points heavily to two scum teams and Lacey scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

Thanks for the great vote towards my intelligence guys. I'm not an idiot. If I were mafia, I wouldn't have had to guess about the setup, as stated previously, I would have already known based on the size of the scum team.

I disagree. Two scum means either an SK or a second scum team. Scum would be left guessing just as much as town. More importantly, whether or not there's another scum team actually has some relevance to scum, whereas town really shouldn't care early on.

As for the thing about SKs not using guns, that's very common. They usually use a knife. If there was a vig kill, it had to be Sotty, considering I doubt a vig would devour someone. No way a pro-town vig killed Sotty.

As for jeromus, I thought Cirdua was a better lynch. Apparently, I was wrong about that. Now, I'm coming back to the jeromus case.

I'm not quite as sold on jaspter as others seem to be. I don't see why a townie can't bandwagon with no motivation but bacon. I can see why scum would be more likely to, but still...

[DeathRowKitty]

What made you think Cirdua was a better lynch? Can you outline why you felt Cirdua was scummier than Jeromus?

Well, my initial reason was explained in this post. I think it was also partially that there was Cirdua was analyzed more, whereas jeromus slipped under my radar a bit more. I can't say I regret my Cirdua vote (aside from the fact he flipped town).

I see jeromus has posted since I typed the bulk of this up (I blame distractions....). I'll get to that in a minute.

@Vi
What do you think of jeromus?

[DeathRowKitty]

V/LA Friday, April 9 - Saturday, April 10

Should have time to post tonight. Might have time to post tomorrow morning and/or Saturday night.

[DeathRowKitty]

Here. Will post later. Busy in general early on Sundays.

[DeathRowKitty]

Errr....sorry about not posting yesterday. If I don't post today (probably within the next hour), feel free to throw tomatoes at me or something.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm not going to go through and analyze every post from the past few days. I'll try to hit on all the important points though.

1. I'm really not seeing at all why people find Lacey to be so obv-town. I wrote off a lot of her day 1 play to meta, but given the likelihood of two scum teams, her comments early day 1 look terrible. The only thing to point to two scum teams for scum that early on is having two players, which would more likely suggest SK. Unless someone has some key insight into her play that says she would be playing drastically differently as scum, I don't see why she's getting a free pass on that.
2. I'm also not seeing what makes Jason such obvious scum. I've had no problem with most of what he's said. Notable exception:

   OK, as scum I throw my vote around jumping on the popular wagons piggy backing of others cases, as town though I like to ask questions and get responses first before committing to a vote. As I like to make sure my vote is going on the right person, as scum I don't care who gets lynched.

   ORLY?! <---Jason as scum
3. Lacey's OMG LOOK HOW MANY TIMES THESE PEOPLE POSTED thing is starting to get a bit annoying and I really don't think it's that useful.
4. I would prefer to get more of Maemuki's thoughts before a claim. I have no problem with rushing the day, but it seems like we're rushing the day just for the sake of lynching fast.

Just a general question for the more experienced players. I've run into low levels of enthusiasm except from 2-3 players in nearly all of my games, with 50%+ of the players lurking. Is this normal? It's a let down.

Yes. Especially when we have people like DRK who haven't been posting.

FoS DRK

. STOP LURKING!

[DeathRowKitty]

Also *gets Tomato Launcher 3001 ready*

O.O

Looks like I was just in time...

[DeathRowKitty]

The day's felt fast to me...have I really been gone that long?

Who do I think is scum? Well definitely Lacey and jeromus.

Others I'm not quite so sure on. I'm still tempted to say VP as one of them and I still have no clue why. If I had to pick a pool of 3 for the remaining choices, I'd probably go with Jason, VP, and Maemuki, in some order. I would probably put VP as the lowest of those three. I find Maemuki scummier than Jason.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Jason
I personally think the response to this post is obvious, but I'll respond if you disagree.

I'm not sure if I should be bothered by Konowa coming in and having very similar suspicions to me (his first, second, and fourth picks are the same people with the same major reasons; my third pick was him) or if I should be feeling good about myself now. It does bother me that, of the 8 other players left, he expresses suspicion of 6 of them in his first post (he doesn't express suspicion of me or CC (possible buddying to me?)). Also, I don't like how loud his first post with content is, for lack of a better word. It's worded in a way you would expect a post to be worded from someone more or less leading the town...except he's at L-1 and he's flailing at everyone. Basically, it looks like an attempt to come out strong and lead us on an assault against pretty much anyone but himself.

Lol @ Alex finding Sotty scummy.

@Alex
Was there anything you had in mind besides Sotty's reaction to your RVS behavior that you thought made her scummy? If you had to pick someone else who attacked you as scum, who would you pick?

@Konowa
What makes not knowing who died scummy?

@jason: Your logic is bad, I just do not know if you are scum for it or not.
Opinion on Alex?

I have been accused of that many times bad logic I mean

Why did you just give in when Konowa accused you of bad logic? Do you agree that your logic was bad?

[DeathRowKitty]

Do you still believe your logic to be correct?

[DeathRowKitty]

Konowa, claim.

[DeathRowKitty]

VP, there's no contradiction there.

[DeathRowKitty]

Not seeing how someone is obvscum =/= not finding someone scummy.

[DeathRowKitty]

You're the one arguing semantics here. I find it hard to believe you don't understand what I said.

You should also remember that my saying I think he's scum only puts him in the top half of my suspicions, which shouldn't be particularly shocking.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'll join the chorus of people not liking Jason's hammer. He waited until it VP said he's be fine with a hammer and then hammered out of the blue. Then again, I would have hammered if he didn't. Oh well.

@Konowa
If you come back to the thread in time, are you scum?

[DeathRowKitty]

So much for cross-kills...

We're definitely dealing with two scum teams here (or one scum team and an SK that eats its victims). There's no way VP or Vi was killed by a pro-town player.

I think we should no lynch here. If we lynch correctly, we're betting on scum cross-killing.

Let's assume the two scum teams are mafia and werewolves (which flavor suggests). Let's say we lynch one of the wolves today. If the mafia manage to kill the other wolf, but the wolf kills a townie at night, the game ends in a mafia win.

If it's mafia+SK, lynching the SK also leads to a loss, as the game would be 2 vs. 2 tomorrow.

I'd rather we give scum a night to cross-kill. This does potentially run the small risk of all remaining townies being wiped out tonight, but it would be in scum's best interest to try to cross-kill tonight. Being down 2-1 ot the other scum team with a townie still alive would put that scum team at a huge disadvantage.

Basically,

FoS nolynch

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, considering scum have to go for a cross-kill tonight, I see nothing wrong with giving them more to base their kills on. We should probably MC and then no lynch.

I'm fine with Jason claiming first with popcorn thereafter.

[DeathRowKitty]

Guys, scum don't want to kill town tonight. It doesn't matter if we out any power roles. Any scum team that doesn't hit scum will be at a huge disadvantage. Even town PRs are outed, it would be stupid for scum to go after them.

I vote for mass claim + no lynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

If we're going to no lynch, we want scum to have as much information as possible. We want them to know exactly who's town and scum. If that means outing a PR or two, it's worth it, considering that optimal play for scum is unquestionably to try to kill other scum. If they were too stupid to realize it before, then I'll spam this thread with reasons why until it gets their attention. Any scum team that doesn't listen will lose.

[DeathRowKitty]

Sorry for my recent inactivity. Post coming tomorrow (well, today, but there will be an extended period of sleep between now and then, which makes it tomorrow).

[DeathRowKitty]

Woooooo, we won! ^5 Jason. It was nice being scum with you again.

For the most part, it was an enjoyable game, but by the end of the game, I pretty much stopped caring (I almost forgot to send in the kill the last night...). After my other ongoing game finishes, I'll probably be taking a break from mafia. Yes, you can all breathe a sigh of relief that you won't be in another game with me for a while.

In this game, I learned that Vi scares the hell out of me. In a good way. I think. It's hard to be sure.

Good game all. A special thanks to the other scum team for killing all the people Jason and I didn't.

[DeathRowKitty]

Meh, I don't think I'd particularly enjoy playing with myself. You're just weird.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm fine with it if Jason is.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, whatever, I don't think Jason will mind.

Mafia QT

It wasn't meant to be a cross-kill.

[DeathRowKitty]

I actually didn't notice your post until after I'd posted the QT (you posted 22 seconds before me).