Mini 937 - Mafia on Death Row OVER

[DeathSauce]

/sausage

[DeathSauce]

Sorry for the late entrance, gotta check my PMs more often

[DeathSauce]

Vote: pickemgenius

If you check my wiki, you'll see that my sig line used to be: Pickemgenius:"DEATHSAUCE MUUUSST DIIIIEEEEE!"

And yet PEG is not voting me, therefore he is not internally consistent, and thus scum.

[DeathSauce]

Unvote

[DeathSauce]

Hey, it's my scumday! Free rhubarb jello for everyone!

Happy scumday! I think I'll pass on the jello though.

-DRK

[DeathSauce]

I like theories, and I think GreenDude's is pretty well thought out.

Should we also have the fight in this game about whether L-2 is scummy or not? It's been done to death and it bores me, but I don't want to fight tradition.

[DeathSauce]

I find it unusual that deathsauce thinks my theory that he and pickemgenius are scum is well thought.

So you're telling us your theory ISN'T well thought? Why did you say it if you didn't think about it? You're just randomly assigning people as scumbuddies without thinking?

Anyway, I like your theory, it's just that there is no evidence for it, so you'll have to find some. Then we can look at it in further detail.

Yeah, easyjo is kinda freaking me out with his hypocrisy. Let's lynch him.

Vote:easyjo

[DeathSauce]

Sorry, I am being a bit jokey, trying to get GreenDude to post a reason why his theory might have any basis in reality. It probably doesn't, because he called it a "Random Theory".

I wanted to call attention to it because it is exactly the kind of early seed a scum might like to plant. Looks like I succeeded in calling attention to it, but not in the manner I had hoped.

[DeathSauce]

Why is that an acceptable reason? He thought it was scummy enough for a vote. Why did you give him an out when asking the question? This whole exchange looks weird.

[DeathSauce]

GD's wagon was interesting. I feel that the grounds for it were completely ridiculous, but at the same time, it did help to create some genuine discussion.

I find the later joins to the bandwagon the most interesting.

SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly to be honest, if I were to join GD's bandwagon, I would have joined it whole-heartedly to get the most information possible, whether I truly believed in the premise or not.

Referencing bolded portion: Why? What was interesting about them?

There are a lot of people in this game making statements like "such-and-such is interesting" or "I noticed blah blah blah". Here's a tip, tell us WHY you think its interesting, maybe I'll agree with you!

If you just post useless wishy-washy drivel, you make me think you are trying to act townie but don't know how.

[DeathSauce]

Two people were already voting for me: BrokenBluePrints (rvs), and SAMP (not rvs)

And My Milked Eek, Pickemgenius, and

possibly deathsauce were ready to vote for me as well.

...

And deathsauce was the other person I pointed at but he didn’t think I was serious...

But at 4 votes L-3, someone is likely to jump onto a bandwagon like that.

Don't ever presume to know what I am "ready to" do. How dare you try to suggest that you have any idea what I am going to do . Just because your "theory" was craplogic doesn't mean I think you're scum.

But guess what? I think that now!

[DeathSauce]

Where is my vote? Oh yeah, on easjo, I'm good with that. I don't see his "logic" and

FOS Magna

for claiming there is logic in that crap.

[DeathSauce]

The lack of easjo votes depresses me. Don't you guys hate scum?

[DeathSauce]

The lack of easjo votes depresses me. Don't you guys hate scum?

There are a lot of people in this game making statements like "such-and-such is interesting" or "I noticed blah blah blah". Here's a tip, tell us WHY you think its interesting, maybe I'll agree with you!

Maybe you should follow your own advice

I guess I'm still waiting to see if anyone else notices easjo's hypocrisy or if we have all just decided to forget about it.

[DeathSauce]

Deathsauce: You really want an easjo lynch. Explain to the rest of us. Telling us to read easjo's posts is not an acceptable way of doing this, explain to us using relevant quotes etc.
.

Go read easjo's posts. Look for these signs: hypocrisy, wishy-washiness, failure to call others scummy until prompted, weird unvote, overall sense of scumminess.

Just so you know, D_G, I don't do PBPA or big-ass quote-filled posts. I hate them. Ask anyone.

[DeathSauce]

Go read easjo's posts. Look for these signs: hypocrisy, wishy-washiness, failure to call others scummy until prompted, weird unvote, overall sense of scumminess.

Just so you know, D_G, I don't do PBPA or big-ass quote-filled posts. I hate them. Ask anyone.

Deathsauce - Why do you hate them? Quote posting provides a direct link between the points you are making and your responses. Do you find them anti-town / scummy? Should players who find those style of posts informative and effective feel you are scummy for not providing direct evidence for your accusations?

PBPA is meaningless, you can make anyone look scummy with it. It's neither pro nor anti-town. I don't care if others want quotes, I will use them, but sparingly. If I say "please read Player X and look for these clues" it's because I want you to do that. If you're too lazy, I'll be damned if I'll do the work for you.

[DeathSauce]

Wha? Didn't I just post yesterday

Nope.

-DRK

[DeathSauce]

Guess not, must be depression from the lack of easjo votes.

Oh sure, correct your mistake while I'm editing a message into your previous post >_>

-DRK

[DeathSauce]

Either easjo has the worst memory in the world, or is a liar.

I vote liar.

[DeathSauce]

My second suspicion, hmm. Missed that question. I will answer tomorrow morning.

[DeathSauce]

Magna's defense of easjo is noted.

[DeathSauce]

Oh lol, forgot to read page 13.

I read through easjo and I if you would like I will show what certain posts drawed my attention.

We're two days from deadline. If you suddenly have a case, post it without asking permission. Seriously.

+100

[DeathSauce]

OK, my second most suspicious character is Damon Gant.

Two absolutely contradictory reasons:

1) Leading, especially the part about informing the town not to listen to me unless I play his way, but many other instances. (also, repeated references to deadline, trying to build a sense of panic and unreason)

2) Following, statements like "my thoughts exactly".

Seems like he's trying to lead the town and doing so by building mini-alliances by agreeing with others in a creepy way.

[DeathSauce]

Looks like L-2 to me

[DeathSauce]

First off,

FoS: DeathSauce.

For pushing a lynch on grounds he refused to prove.

I have to assume you are on drugs, just because I posted my thoughts in a different style does not mean there was no content there.

[DeathSauce]

Zodiark, why the question about morning flavor?

[DeathSauce]

I think I understand what Nacho is asking, and I can answer it and put an end to all this speculation.

I'm the real one-shot vig, and I NK'ed SSK because I assumed he was lying scum.

I think anyone would have made the same decision based on his fakeclaim. I've never played had this role before and was going to wait it out , but SSK made it an easy (although it turned out to be wrong) decision.

[DeathSauce]

I was under the assumption he was asking a loaded question, pairing us as scumbuddies.

Claiming for no reason thought, DeathSauce, espicially vig, one-shot or not, is either very stupid or very suspicious. I know that if I were scum(which I'm not), I would NK you just to be sure you ARE just a one-shot.

I know it's a risk, but I don't think it's stupid (or suspicious, obv). It was looking like we were going to skip analysis of the nightkill so I wasn't going to claim unless that happened. I'm hoping for protection, but if I do get NK'ed, I've already used the best tool for scumkilling at my disposal and can maybe draw a kill away from another power role.

[DeathSauce]

Looking back at yesterday, I think the conversation between Green Dude and Nacho right after the hammer was weird and fakey and possibly orchestrated. It seems like an exchange just to throw off suspicion. I also thought much of Greenie's play yesterday was rotten, including his appeal to emotion in iso 14 and his jumping on the easjo wagon by saying he would post his reasons later, if we wanted them.

vote:GreenDude

[DeathSauce]

EBWOP, also GD iso 29. Says he doesn't like an easjo lynch when he's not around to defend himself, but doesn't unvote.

[DeathSauce]

No, thats not what I meant.

I think that deathsauce sounded really fake when he suddenly says, "Oh, btw, it really stupid of me to say this but I'm the vigilante."

And because of that, we should lynch him. Not because of 1 in 2 chance or because there's a possibility he's scum.

I simply phrased it wrong.

Pure unadulterated straw-man fallaciousness. I never said it was stupid for me to claim, I posted simply and clearly why I thought it wasn't.

Watching you squirm under Nacho's questioning is telling.

[DeathSauce]

Nacho, I am unclear. You think I'm an SK?

[DeathSauce]

What the heck. You have no reason to claim vig and it is pretty stupid considering

you will be night killed

. I doubt there to be a doctor otherwise he would have protected Mafiassk.

Bolding mine.

Interesting choice of words there, GD. You seem quite certain about the Night kill. How is it that you know who is going to be NK'ed?

[DeathSauce]

@deathsauce: Plz answer my question, what role are you actually?

I have gone through every possiblity and there is no logical explanation for deathsauce to claim vigilante.

I think you are missing a fairly obvious explanation, I'm a one-shot vigilante.

I didn't invent or falsify anything about my role, and claimed because Nacho seemed to be asking why SSK was NK'ed and if it was pro-town.

And now, speaking of Nacho, I continue to see a strange teacher-pupil dynamic between Nacho and GD. The exchange where Nacho voted GD until he gave a (horrible) reason to suppose I'm scum was bizarre.

I vote to lynch the teacher, he's more dangerous.

Unvote. Vote: Nachomomma8

[DeathSauce]

I'm starting to think that deathsauce is actually a vigilante.

It makes sense he would want to claim so that people think he has used up his ability and then surprise the mafia later on. And it explains how there wouldn't be a second kill in night 2. And it also explains why deathsauce insists he's a one shot vigilante.

Why would you post this? First of all, it makes no sense, once again you are confidently predicting what is going to happen at night, and secondly it is anti-town from beginning to end.

Can we please lynch GD or his scumbuddy Nacho today?

[DeathSauce]

That would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

But OK, I'll play along. You are the one-shot vig. Why did you kill Magna on Night One? What pro-town purpose did you serve by using your ONE SHOT on your very first opportunity?

[DeathSauce]

Also, you have still never posted your reasons for voting easjo, which you said you would do on March 28.

[DeathSauce]

All right, I've had a night to think this over.

I will admit that my role is not precisely an OSV, but the ability is fundamentally and functionally the same, so I am going to continue in my belief that there are not two players with the same ability.

Also, he hurts my brain.

unvote. vote:GreenDude

[DeathSauce]

I stand by my decision, will explain today after work. Don't kill me until then.

[DeathSauce]

No flailing required, in fact there is another player that can confirm that I am telling the truth.

I have cleared this with the mod and I will not be quoting any PMs.

Night One I was presented with a 'one shot' pistol from our local Inventor. I tried to breadcrumb this in post 429 when responding directly to GD's question about my role:

@deathsauce: Plz answer my question, what role are you actually?

I have gone through every possiblity and there is no logical explanation for deathsauce to claim vigilante.

...

I didn't invent

or falsify anything about my role, and claimed because Nacho seemed to be asking why SSK was NK'ed and if it was pro-town...

Since SSK claimed OSV, and I had just been given the functional equivalent of that role, I assumed (correctly, I may add) that he was lying. When discussion turned to his NK, I claimed the role I had been given.

GreenDude was illogical, flailing, and managed to confuse the entire situation even before he claimed. That is why I stand behind my decision.

[DeathSauce]

With all due respect, you are insane. Obviously I didn't know that SSK was lying during the day! Do you see me reacting to his claim at all during the day? At night I got a PM stating I had a one-shot pistol on my porch (hope that is not too close to the PM).

Would you not assume that the claimed OSV was lying? I have also been an Inventor and I was only able to give an invention every other night, but they were available for use immediately. There is clearly some wiggle room in Inventor abilities.

Your 3rd point- my claim is improved if the Inventor backs me up, but I don't think it's necessary. If we have a Doc, he has been horrible at protection and it might be better for the town to let me hang rather than claim.

[DeathSauce]

OK, good response.

vote:Nachomomma8

[DeathSauce]

Whoops, totally missed this.

There's only one problem I have with the roleclaim...

Why would Greendude lie about who he killed?

(PS: The real inventor shouldn't claim)

I can not answer this. I told the truth from the beginning about who I killed. For all I know GD didn't target anyone since he (apparently) lied about killing Magna. Really, how do you expect me to answer for GD?

[DeathSauce]

Crap, all these posts so close together I missed them as they were made. Check my wiki, my Inventor game is there but I was NK'ed on Night One. Game was Mini 474 -Bergamo Bump-off

[DeathSauce]

Last before bedtime post.

unvote. vote:wolframnhart

for fake morning outrage and convenient unvoting before a quicklynch.

Nacho, your question puzzles me. Any push from me to lynch GD was unrelated to a claim, most of it concerned my perceived relationship between the two of you. Second question has me baffled, after who hammered? Only doubt I had about GD was the day after GD claimed OSV, which he was also lying about.

[DeathSauce]

Okay then, wolf.

unvote

. I was a little buzzed when I wrote that last night and maybe wasn't thinking clearly.

inventor game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5716

[DeathSauce]

Hmm I think you're right, that game was a long time ago and I might be mixing it up with another game I read somewhere along the way. I think I was able to give away an invention any night I chose

[DeathSauce]

I'm against policy lynches, and that includes Lynch All Lurkers, unless it can be shown that they are intentionally lurking. Not sure that's the case w/ PEG.

Looking back at SAMP's posts, it looks like there are two possible investigations he did on Night One.

The strongest candidate is his iso post 33 where he says:

WE ARE LYNCHING PEG TODAY GOT IT? GOOD.

The second possibility is SAMP's iso 31:

...and people are still suspicious of Zodiark? He's so obvtown it hurts. Look at 340 again.

Based on these possibilities, I think the first is more strongly stated and is therefore the most likely investigation result.

vote: pickemgenius

[DeathSauce]

I can understand the hesitancy, but it's only lylo if we're wrong. And we have our cop actually screaming in all-caps from beyond the grave that he's found scum. I think the course is clear.

[DeathSauce]

Ok, the Day 2 samp-ISO starts on #030.

#030 - Strong anti-peg post.
#031 - Anti-peg post and pro-zodiark remark. He mentioned post 340 and I still don't see the protown motive behind that post.
#032 - Recap of "zodiark has protown motives"
#033 -

WE ARE LYNCHING PEG TODAY GOT IT? GOOD.

#035 - Urges people to vote peg. Thought zodiark was the vig. (!)

Iso 30 is more than a "strong anti-peg post". It s a vote for peg with no explanation and is his first post of the day.

Iso post 32 weakens, rather than strengthens his comment in iso 31.

However, his post #035 makes me think he investigated zodiark. This line in particular: "

Well shoot, I was certain Zodiark was the vig.

Look at that entire post again. It is another push to lynch peg, and his comment about Zodiark is in response to me.

I think you are trying to read to much into SAMP's posts rather than seeing the obvious strong effort to lynch peg. Your efforts to save peg are noted.

As for the Inventor recipient claim. I'll provide my opinion about it after getting an answer to this question:
@death sauce: did the pm, in which you supposedly received a one shot power, contain the words inventor or did it hint at an inventor? Or did you assume inventor because of that game you played?

It contained the word invention.

[DeathSauce]

I can understand the hesitancy, but it's only lylo if we're wrong. And we have our cop actually screaming in all-caps from beyond the grave that he's found scum. I think the course is clear.

I don't understand any of this post.

What's not to understand? Our cop screamed "WE ARE LYNCHING PEG TODAY!", do we need a bigger hint?

[DeathSauce]

I meant that we only lose if we are wrong, and I don't think lynching peg is wrong

[DeathSauce]

I want to beat my head against a wall.

The cop comes out with his first post of the day with a commentless vote on peg. He then yells that we are lynching peg. He posts 3 more times saying we should lynch peg.

But because he responded to my vig claim by saying that he thought Zodiark was the vig, you believe that was his investigation?!?

I noticed his change of heart on Zodiark as well, or I wouldn't have brought it up, but the heavy preponderance of the evidence suggests he investigated peg.

And yes, if you choose to ignore the fact that that is where the most evidence lies, you are defending peg.

Right now I'm seeing a MME-Gant-peg scum group, we lynch any one of these three and I'm happy.

[DeathSauce]

If we want to dig into every post SAMP made after night one, I might also note that he twice made the effort (three times if you count double-posts ) to clearly state "DeathSauce is town".

I also think we should look closer at his iso post 35,

If your main concern with PEG is the lurking and fluff-posting, VOTE HIM!

Especially

if you're not doing anything else with your vote. Early D2 is a perfectly reasonable time to step up the pressure.

But seriously the fact that he saw a bunch of deadline wagons, and didn't get on any of them or even comment on any of them, and didn't even try to turn his vote on GD into a wagon, is a

dead giveaway

that he cares more about self-preservation than lynching scum.

Why the bolded part? That is SAMP's bolding, not mine.

[DeathSauce]

Zodiark's ENTIRE post 538 is blatant misrepresentation.

Ok, first, I am no longer happy with a PEG lynch. Why? DS is behind it. Think about it. D1, He drops hints about easjo being a hypocrite, and refuses to back it up. D1, we lynched our tracker. D2, he claims vig. D2, we lynch our vig. Now he's pushing really hard for a PEG lynch? When a laidback maybescum pushes, you know it's bad for the town.

I did not refuse to provide evidence of easjo being a hypocrite. I posted what I saw in his posts and told others to look and make their own judgments. Try reading the thread. I also did not claim straight-up "vig", and neither did GD, for that matter. If I am pushing hard on peg, it's because I am increasingly frustrated with quoting the actual cop in this actual game and having everyone else either ignore it completely or dismiss it without comment. It seems like the best tool we have to find scum and I can't fathom why anyone would choose to ignore it without analysis.

Second, anyone notice how, after he claimed he wasn't a vig but a person-who-got-given-a-gun-N1, he hasn't claimed his

actual

role yet?

No one has asked me to post my role and I wouldn't do it at this point if asked. Complete straw man

nonsense

. Seriously.

Third, I don't believe his claim. People seem to forget that GD, though a liar, is still a vig, and there were two NK's N1, not three, and no extra NK's since.

Why would there be extra NKs? This makes no fucking sense at all. N1 either GD and I targeted the same player or he didn't use his vig power, not that hard to comprehend.

Fourth, this whole SAMP investigation speculation seems to me like a tool for DS to influence town opinion. First he claims SAMP checked PEG and got guilty, then in the same post, he claims SAMP checked me and got clean. Now, he's trying to suggest that SAMP checked him and got clean too.

No

.

Wrong

. I said that SAMP probably either investigated you and found town, or investigated peg and found scum.

Not both

. To suggest otherwise is a lie. Everyone else got that, you needed help. It's OK.

My comment about SAMP clearing me was in jest (hence the smiley) because it appeared some other players wanted to ignore the giant glaring messages SAMP posted on day 2 and look for hidden meanings in the minutiae.

[DeathSauce]

Congratulations, you just confessed to attempting to kill a pro-town role. Until his flip on the morning of D2, you would have had no knowledge that SSK's claim was fake, and you just claimed the kill. There is no pro-town motivation for you killing SSK. I say, what you did is, you agreed with your scumbuddies to kill Magna, then tried to kill SSK with the gun you were given.

Ummm, yes? Same way I confessed to it immediately on D2? We had a whole discussion about it? Are you two morons serious about this?

[DeathSauce]

Also, Zodiark maybescum, why haven't you mentioned any other part of my response to your Giant Post O' Lies? No answers?

[DeathSauce]

I'm tired of Zodiark's lies, misrep, and blatant attempts at buddying.

I no longer suspect Gant. Peg is AWOL.

unvote. vote:Zodiark

[DeathSauce]

Yes, but at the time, you had claimed vig, and therefore had pro-town motovation to NK SSK. However, since then you have re-claimed given-a-gun-night-one. You would have no knowledge that SSK was lying at the time. That discussion was going by you being a vig.

What is the difference between a one-shot vig and someone that is given a one-shot vig ability? Nothing. That is why I suspected (correctly) that SSK was lying. Would it have been better for me to out the inventor right away rather than wait as long as possible? I don't think so.

Quickly on your points, I outlined your lies in my response to your Post O' Lies. Buddying w/ Gant. I already said that I was joking about the cop investigating me and why, get over it (more misrep from you, btw.) I briefly suspected Gant due to his swings of suspicion. Finally, there is no OMGUS, my suspicions are outlined clearly, do not attempt to belittle them by calling them OMGUS.

Nice teamwork between MME and Zodiscum there, more pathetic attempts to twist my posts. I still think PEG was the one investigated due to the overwhelming evidence. I unvoted because he is not here to defend himself.

[DeathSauce]

Broke my leg quite severely on Saturday and just got back home yesterday. Will catch up.

Lot of people in this game that are "for" my lynch without voting me, that is mighty flaky.

I've had a few days (and a lot of morphine) to think it over and even though it is pretty obvious to me that SAMP investigated peg, it is possible that he cleared Zodiark.

That leads me to MME. He's been acting weird this entire day. I have no idea what his whole line of questioning on what my PM said was about and he hasn't explained it at all.

unvote.

[DeathSauce]

That is some kinda logic fail Eek.

I do not get at all how Tornado sees that SAMP got a guilty on Zodiark, please explain again.

Even though it may save me, I don't think the inventor should claim unless they end up at L-1, scum have been crazy lucky in tis game, no need to hand them another power role

[DeathSauce]

And I say again that the inventor should NOT claim! Do not do it to save me, at this point having the inventor live is the only shot the town has of surviving.

Claim: Vanilla Townie

TOD's latest post makes my head spin. I still don't see how it can be shown that SAMP investigated Zodiark and got guilty. Either it's craplogic or I'm too stupid to understand.

Vote: Trumpet

[DeathSauce]

Zodiark, how can you be voting for me when ToD is trying to set you up in case my lynch fails? Do you still think he is pro-town?

[DeathSauce]

No, my vote is on ToD because peg was scum, SAMP investigated him and told us to lynch him, and now ToD is trying to get me and/or you lynched with craplogic.

See how that isn't OMGUS? Good.

I came right out and said it was obvious that SAMP had either investigated peg and got guilty, or investigated you and got innocent. Everyone saw that those were the likeliest explanations. Now we have ToD claiming that you, Zodiark, was the target and you came up guilty!

See how that isn't OMGUS either? Excellent, you'll be able to think for yourself someday if you keep this up.

Next, when you are at LYLO, and you are town, and someone is posting a craplogic case on you, they are probably scum. Therefore, it is okay to vote for them without it being OMGUS.

And finally, claiming that someone is voting based on OMGUS after TWENTY-FIVE PAGES OF THE GAME is, frankly, insulting. Read my goddamned reasons for voting someone and comment on those rather than assigning it a schoolyard "I know you are but what am I?" bullshit reason.

[DeathSauce]

EBWOP: Notice also how ToD keeps making cases against Zodiark, but has his vote on me because I am the leading wagon? Does that make sense? If I can see it through my Vicodin-woozy brain, how is that the rest of you are missing it?

[DeathSauce]

Dammit!

[DeathSauce]

I'm glad that you agree that you went a bit hard with bussing me, MME. It looked like the majority of the town was going along w/ the inventor claim and I couldn't figure out why you didn't let up.

All's well that ends well, though. Glad I outed the real vig, living beyond that would have just been an unforeseen plus.

[DeathSauce]

No problem at all.

Here it is:
http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/4f97yRPCMchx