Mini 922 - Mafia in Mo Town [Game Over]

[Zachrulez]

Unvote:

Now I go and read 29 pages.

Let me know if there's anything you need me to respond to right away.

[Zachrulez]

Just to update you guys, I'm on page 8 right now.

[Zachrulez]

I'm on page 19 now. I hope to be finished reading tonight or tomorrow.

The deadline is closing in though... so it's going to cut uncomfortably close to the deadline here.

Mod: Is there any chance of getting an extension to the deadline?

[Zachrulez]

I've seen enough.

Vote: Nikanor

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=342

Compare with...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=612

I am noticing an alarming pattern from Nikanor, where he will lurk, and then complain about the level of posting in the game when he's scum.

What's even worse is that Nikanor did exactly 0 scumhunting till about page 17. This is inexcusable. What he came up with when he actually started posting wasn't much either. A vote for Almaster? An offwagon vote on Neto? What's this crap? It looks like you're trying to build a town resume to me... and I'm not buying it for a second.

The most activity I have seen from you was your little spat with Bob at the start of the day where you were fighting over the validity of lynch all lurkers vs lynch all liars, a fight that feels fake to me in an effort to make both you and Bob look more proactive to the town. (I think he's probably scum too.)

How is it that this crap divides you so harshly, but Bob was so quick to jump to your defense when you were lurking agreeing with you about the ridiculous level of posting in the game? I just can't fathom this... I can't believe no one's wagoning you!

I also don't really understand why Neto and Lowell are being run up... maybe someone can explain it to me?

[Zachrulez]

The only problem with no lynching is that we go from 2 misplaced town votes leading to a quick hammer to only one misvote leading to such. It takes away any room for error.

It's a matter of deciding whether the next NK is going to really help the town that much or not.

Personally, I think we should lynch Nikanor and see where we're at after that. (And maybe mislynch then.)

Yeah, I'm pretty confident that Nikanor will flip scum. (Moreso than the other reads I mentioned yesterday)

[Zachrulez]

EBWOP

The only problem with no lynching is that we go from 2 misplaced town votes leading to a quick hammer to only one misvote leading to such. It takes away any room for error.

It's a matter of deciding whether the next NK is going to really help the town that much or not.

Personally, I think we should lynch Nikanor and see where we're at after that. (And maybe

mislynch

no lynch then.)

Yeah, I'm pretty confident that Nikanor will flip scum. (Moreso than the other reads I mentioned yesterday)

[Zachrulez]

Well considering

I

drove it for the most part, I'm going to say no.
@Zach: Your case is still crap. Please think of something better if you're just going to piggyback kthx.

I disagree. I think a clear pattern is emerging regarding your play.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12859

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13337

I'm still reeling from letting you get away with your lurking in Sotty's game... not this time...

[Zachrulez]

I am also going to point out that I inquired yesterday as to why Neto and Lowell were being run up, and no one bothered to respond/answer it.

Nikanor in particular chose to attack my lack of understanding rather than explain it to me.

If possible, I'd like the Lowell portion of that question answered this time around.

To me his play looks very much like tweed mafia and if the reasons for for wanting his lynch are the same as they are in that game... then I don't think it's a particularly great lynch.

[Zachrulez]

You're distorting a bit with that link.

For example in my game it didn't take you over 17 pages to actually bother to post any content or do any kind of scumhunting whatsoever. (And actually checking my game, my game reached 17 pages QUICKER than this game did.)

Also, you actively complained about the rate of posting in this game, something you didn't do there.

So why exactly did it take you 17 pages to actually start playing the game Nikanor?

[Zachrulez]

(And actually checking my game, my game reached 17 pages QUICKER than this game did.)

No it didn't. Your game took eleven days to reach page 17. This game took seven days to reach page 17. I'd like to know how you'd make this mistake.

Also, I have a job now. I didn't have a job then.

Okay, the game started on Feburary 9th. For whatever reason I thought it started on the first.

Still... similarly paced game, and you had no trouble posting content in mine.

[Zachrulez]

(And actually checking my game, my game reached 17 pages QUICKER than this game did.)

No it didn't. Your game took eleven days to reach page 17. This game took seven days to reach page 17. I'd like to know how you'd make this mistake.

Also, I have a job now. I didn't have a job then.

Okay, the game started on

Feburary 9th

February 10th. For whatever reason I thought it started on the first.

Still... similarly paced game, and you had no trouble posting content in mine.

Went by the mod's first post. Being a replacement sucks.

If you want to get all semantical on that, I could compare your first 7 days of posting in this game to the first 7 of mine.

[Zachrulez]

You made 15 posts in this game in the first 7 days.

Not a single one did any scumhunting.

In comparison, in my game, you posted 23 times in the first 7 days, and were scumhunting from iso post 1.

Get the idea?

[Zachrulez]

Whether or not you have a job doesn't really have anything to do with anything.

You can read the first few pages of both games and the difference in your approach is strikingly obvious.

[Zachrulez]

Zach, I work nights. And when I work nights I'm gone for 12 hours at a time. So yes, it does have to do with everything.

Seriously, I have the exact same excuse.

[Zachrulez]

And none of it has stopped you from responding to my attacks.

[Zachrulez]

Well considering

I

drove it for the most part, I'm going to say no.
@Zach: Your case is still crap. Please think of something better if you're just going to piggyback kthx.

Saaaaay... why don't you tell us who you think is scum?

Wow me with some impressive analysis that you've been lacking all game.

[Zachrulez]

Eh, no one supporting no lynch seems interested in any discussion anyway.

I don't see how it's incredibly detrimental to have discussion on a day when you think no lynch is the best play as scum will just chose endgame based on the state of the previous day phase.

Anyway... I don't see much of a point in fighting over it. My concern with no lynch is that we're moving from 2 misplaced town votes ending the game to just one, which greatly reduces the margin of error for the town, and if one townie comes into tomorrow trigger happy and votes the wrong person, this whole move is for naught anyway.

Saying that, I'm going to have some faith that the town will heed what I just said above and

Vote: No lynch

[Zachrulez]

If we do a mass claim, I want Nikanor to claim first.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, we could spend ages arguing and discussing that. Most of the games I've played opt to popcorn, with the person who claims deciding who goes next.

[Zachrulez]

Even the dice agrees with me... lol

[Zachrulez]

Well we're supposed to wait for MC before we do any of this, but I hope you don't expect me to answer for Kyle's end of my slot's voting patterns.

Also, reasoning for Nikanor vote has been explained. (to death at this point.)

Also... inquired about Nikanor and Lowell wagons when I replaced in... everyone was all lynch lynch lynch, and no one was in the mood to explain why. When you push through lynches like that without bothering to explain them, you get what you pay for there. There's no way you can sit here and blame me for that with a straight face.

[Zachrulez]

This massclaim cannot take a week. It must move faster. Personally, I'm ready to start discussing Nikanor's lynch.

Agree with this. We've only got two weeks, (Less than that now.) and we can't afford to be spending too much time on this.

[Zachrulez]

I'm a mason, with AlmasterGM (With confirmation of innocence.)

So there's no real point to Almaster claiming now, which leaves Bob and Hito, and out of those two, I would prefer that Bob claim first.

[Zachrulez]

The only obvious scum here is you.

Oh ho ho, someone is going to feel silly when I turn out to be town!

Care to outline the blockbuster case against Zach and I?

I was kidding.

Although I was pretty upset when I got home to see that my main suspect (you) had claimed Mason.

I actually have reason to believe that KittyMo would include Masons in this setup.
Those reasons being that she likes Masons.
She likes them a lot.

Srsly. Die scum die.

[Zachrulez]

I'm not really seeing Lowell scum. The best point against him is far from iron clad. (Tail end of both wagons.)

I see Nikanor, Almightybob, and one of Hito/Reckoner, and among those two, I would probably lean toward Hito being more likely scum.

[Zachrulez]

The only obvious scum here is you.

Oh ho ho, someone is going to feel silly when I turn out to be town!

Care to outline the blockbuster case against Zach and I?

I was kidding.

Although I was pretty upset when I got home to see that my main suspect (you) had claimed Mason.

I actually have reason to believe that KittyMo would include Masons in this setup.
Those reasons being that she likes Masons.
She likes them a lot.

Srsly. Die scum die.

To expand on this post that I pointed out earlier, if I was scum planning a mislynch on someone, and my top mislynch candidate ended up claiming mason, I think I'd be pretty upset too.

Nikanor is definitely scum here people.

[Zachrulez]

I'm not really seeing Lowell scum. The best point against him is far from iron clad. (Tail end of both wagons.)

How is that in any way worse than a meta lurking argument?

Oh, about that meta argument. The game where I replaced you has just finished. I was scum there, and you were heavily lurking prior to replacement.

Strangely enough, meta is the saving point for Lowell for me right now. His play is pretty much on par with what I've seen from him in past games. Enough people also want his head to make me weary about that lynch as well.

[Zachrulez]

Plus, scum trying to drive a mislynch on AGM would be insane. The only person who has thought of him as anything other than town this game was me.

Yeah, and your reasons for suspecting him have been completely insane. (See: Made up.)

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, and your reasons for suspecting him have been completely insane. (See: Made up.)

So we agree that each other is insane. Excellent.

Strangely enough, meta is the saving point for Lowell for me right now. His play is pretty much on par with what I've seen from him in past games. Enough people also want his head to make me weary about that lynch as well.

a) Have you ever read one of Lowell's scum games?
b) Everyone always wants Lowell dead regardless of his alignment. His playstyle is a noose magnet.

I think I've glanced at one of his scum games once... why?

[Zachrulez]

Well considering

I

drove it for the most part, I'm going to say no.
@Zach: Your case is still crap. Please think of something better if you're just going to piggyback kthx.

Saaaaay... why don't you tell us who you think is scum?

Wow me with some impressive analysis that you've been lacking all game.

Also, this still stands.

[Zachrulez]

My points on Lowell aren't just about him being on the tail end of wagons. It's that he's doing stuff like his D2 surprise, about to be replaced hammer and then he has next to no game presence to back it up. Hammering obviously isn't scummy, but those circumstances certainly are and it's interesting that Lowell's 'big defense' never came when no one asked for it. The reason I think Lowell is scum is that he has a lot of game presence when it comes to getting townies murdered and next to no presence when it comes to anything else.

Zach, the meta you're proposing for Lowell doesn't really seem...well, workable. You're saying that if Lowell makes poor decisions and lots of people want him dead, he's probably a townie. But that's an incredibly easy style to consciously replicate, and unless you can tell me some way you can tell when Lowell is faking it that's not really a valid meta defense.

You have to weigh the fact that he plays like this in general, (Whether or not he plays scum the same way) vs the idea of lynching him in lylo first over what I feel are superior lynches such as Nikanor, or even Almightybob.

[Zachrulez]

Also, the whole thing about him not posting that defense when no one asked for it... do you find that most striking, or do you find the fact that some of the people who never asked for that defense seem willing to lynch him anyway, and don't seem to be interested in whether or not he has one?

[Zachrulez]

Also, can you elaborate on why you think Bob is town? Nothing about his play really makes me think townie.

[Zachrulez]

I'm off to work! I have a night shift tonight, har har har.

How considerate of your boss to change your shifts to match your inactivity excuses in Mafia.

You have to weigh the fact that he plays like this in general, (Whether or not he plays scum the same way) vs the idea of lynching him in lylo first over what I feel are superior lynches such as Nikanor, or even Almightybob.

Where did you arrive at me from? As far as I can see, your suspicions of me stem from me supposedly jumping to Nikanor's defence when he said the game was very active in early D1. Is that really it? Because I think I already gave my assessment of that case in Post 753.

When I look at your play, you tend to end up in the same camp as Nikanor. Lurky, and not doing nearly enough scum hunting for my liking.

I just went through and isoed you from about day 3 trying to find any positions from you and I couldn't find anything...

[Zachrulez]

I just went through and isoed you from about day 3 trying to find any positions from you and I couldn't find anything...

I actually laughed out loud.
Could that maybe be because we no-lynched with deliberately no discussion on Day 3, and we've been co-ordinating a massclaim for the overwhelming majority of Day 4?

That hasn't stopped everyone else. Only you and Nikanor.

[Zachrulez]

This is how I see things right now.

Scum:

Nikanor
Almightybob
Hitogoroshi
Lowell
Reckoner
AlmasterGM

Town:

[Zachrulez]

I take it that means Nikanor is town?

[Zachrulez]

Balls.

Reck/hito/Lowell?

You mean it's not you? lol

[Zachrulez]

WTF is going on?

[Zachrulez]

FTR, I was going to have another look at the vote counts of the previous lynches, presuming various groups of 2 out of the 5 unconfirmed players town and seeing how the vote patterns fit.

Almost certainly was voting Nikanor today though.

[Zachrulez]

Well crap.

[Zachrulez]

It's kinda funny that all went down without me actually voting for Nikanor.

[Zachrulez]

This game should be a lesson for the ages.

Lurking gets you lynched.

[Zachrulez]

Also, all my excuses were true.

TBF, you paid a bit of a price for twice burning me as lurker scum.

[Zachrulez]

I wouldn't say I was convinced that Lowell was town...

Reckoner on the other hand pretty much had me fooled. He kept saying things that twinged my gut, but I kept writing them off.

[Zachrulez]

Very well done. Superb play on the mafia side.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm still scratching my head about why you got lynched.