Mini 885 - Boom, Game Gutshot/Abandoned by Mod!

[Humble Poirot]

Hi. Reading. Will post soon. Probably in aprox. 14 hs.

[Humble Poirot]

Hi everyone. I tried something different for this game. Instead of just catching up post after post I decided to read the ISOs first even if I didn't fully understand what was going on. The purpose? To read the players styles and reactions without getting influenced by the topics. So as to not easyly take a side. Please, do not be offended by any of my opinions as they're meant to show what my current feeling about your playstyle is. I can always be wrong and we can always agree to disagree.

Let's see if it works.

5cvm.

Vote hopping in RVS. Mentions random.org. Too much joking around. Air of being above it all. Ok, this repeated claims of scum should be rewarded with a lynch regardless of the real allignment of the player. Too anti-town to be helpful in the future. Jumps on bandwaggons. Laughing.

sidenote

: Claiming scumbuddies is IMHO, a modkillable offense. Because, in the event of being scum, it would spoil the game and faking to break a rule should have the same punishment as breaking it. That said, the mod has no rules against it so it's fine. But the WIFOM is horrible.

questions:

1) How serious do you consider a mafia game to be?
2) Do you think that your current tactics will help you win the game (Assuming you're town, don't give me the "I'm scum version", please)

Aranfan.

Seems to be eager to play and go for evident scumslips. His motives to avoid a jester lynch seem sincere and I can't really see it as a farfetched scumtactic to save an innocent 5cvm for later. Lynch the lurker to save mod trouble? That I don't like. But you gave your reasons and unvoted when I replaced in.

sidenote

. If there is, indeed, a jester, I will be greatly dissapointed.

questions:

A_Squirrel:

Okay. I cheated here. Hearing the same argument that Aranfan used. I went to see who had issued it first (I can see that there might be some sort of unfairness in the order in wich I read the ISOs but I think I can work around it objectively, especially if I reread the whole game later)
It appears that A_squirrel just mimicked Aranfan. But not only that. He claimed it was from random.org. This I find scummy. The need to "blame" the votes on someone else looks like a preemptive defense mechanism. His explanation for this is unsatisfying. Then I see of a lot that looks like scumhunting. I like it from there so I will call it a null-tell and watch it from here. He doesn't seem to push to much but that may be his playstyle.

questions:

ChiboSempai

I was eager to read this one. From the few quotes I've seen. I want to see if those questions and activity really aim somewhere. Ok. Post 4 is a nice town-tell for him regarding 5cvm. His annoyance seems genuine.

One thing that stood out to me is when 5cvm first said that TheButtonMen and xvart were scum, then Button goes and votes xvart. Just going ahead and agreeing with 5cvm almost makes me think that Button is trying to clear himself in everyone elses eyes by voting someone who has been called out as scum.

Noted. Very interesting.

sidenote

: I'm gonna go ahead and say. If there's a town killing role, off 5cvm. Don't hesitate for he is a huge liability for town at this point. Whatever his allignment.

sidenote

2: All in all. This is a very interesting game despite (and because of) the scum/VI/Jester WIFOM and all the reactions revolving around it.

questions:

Jesters in 3/6 games? Seriously? Can you link me to those?
You mentioned that mafia could kill 5cvm. highly unlikely, I say. Do you agree?
how is jester anti-mafia? It's one easy mislynch...
What's the use of hypothetical questions like "If you were scum/town/survivor..."?
do you still feel this way?
EDIT: What did you not like about xvart's posts? What's your current feel on him?

ConfidAnon

:Ok. I forgot to add notes. I like him. His inquiries seem genuine. His arguments seem so too.

sidenote

: mini normal with no vanillas should've never been approved. That's probably a sign of a bad mod.

questions:

If 5cvm is scum, Aranfan is his scumbuddy.

Do you think this is SO straightforward? Wouldn't it be best to buss him or just ignore him?
Explain your Chibosemapai vote. Why did you leave xvart? How do you feel about him now?
Why do you try to guess teammates with no flips? How is that pro-town?

Evilgorrilaz:

Looks confused and new but has already 600+ posts on site so he is NOT. Basically lurked the entire time. Lynch candidate.

hitogoroshi

I like. I like how he tries to reason with 5cvm. Seems like a smart player. I have a good feel about you but you posted very little... I'll eagerly wait for more.

sidenote

: He may have a point about people who are posting too much. When some post to much others lag behind. We need to be careful and avoid fluff.

rite

: Another one with practically no info. I agree with his thoughts about 5cvm but there's not much more. I'm starting to see a pattern here. Holidays...

Seregil

: The post where he votes Chibo is poorly explained but I can understand the possible reasoning. I'll think about it.

questions

I don't either. Perhaps instead of looking at Chibo and Confid I should be looking at Chibo and hito?

why?
Do you plan to follow up on Chibo? Don't you have any other questions for him?

TheButtonmen

:

Your account has been in 4 games, this one, DeathNote where you dropped out of, Bloodlust which had no joker and Crayola catastrophe, which while it did have a jester was also a Theme game. Yet you claim to be at the vary least 3 for 6 with jesters?

Same thing I asked. Nice.

questions

This post was written in jest, right?
So you think that scum has a scum posting style and that they are overt? That's why jester can be easyly confused with scum? Ok then. Who else is overt?

xvart

He changes his mind about the "coincidence". Uses a lot of words like "fabrication" and seems to look at everyone in a scum until proven otherwise way. Pessimistic/paranoid? I'm very sleepy atm. I think I'll read him tomorrow because he seems interesting.

sidenote: Village idiot and jester are 2 different things in Mafiascum.

questions

What's so bad about bandwaggons in RVS?
Was squirrel's post a coincidence, a lie or what? Why is it not scummy?

---

Some extra notes:
-Forgive me if you feel this was too large. I'll try to be as concise and to the point as possible in the future.
- I didn't vote anyone. I know. As a matter of fact.

unvote

just in case. I want to sleep on it and get some answers before anything.

Disclaimer: This post was made listening to Fatboy Slim. If you see any excessive rythm or intensity it, sue them.

[Humble Poirot]

Sorry for the huge delay... I had not finished my post and then I was busy and pushed this forward, I'll post in 5 hs...

[Humble Poirot]

Ok. I read xvart again because I was really sleepy last night and tended to fail near the end.

-He says he doesn't buy A_squirrel's vote being decided by random.org.

I do not accept that it was a coincidence; but, I don't necessarily think it was scummy; I think it's null at this point. It shall be filed away. With that said:

This is something that I do not follow. Why didn't he think it was scummy?

The point I was making about filing it away was simply because if a pattern of behavior develops surrounding the same sort of behavior I was mentioning, it ceases to be a null tell. One simple comment that can appear scummy can be made by anyone, but if it happens over and over, then further scrutiny is needed.

Help me understand. If he continues to do this kind of things he will be more likely scum or it will be more likely an attribute of his playstyle and therefore a nulltell?

while I may understand your train of thougths, I have trouble taking in your personality. You're different from what I'm used to.

-Says he should've said IGMEOY instead of "filing Away" the matter.

sidenote:

I don't think second place is really relevant. All that matters is the win. If a jester wins first or not. It's not our problem. The only problem is reducing our chances by not lynching scum today.

tl,dr:

I feel xvart is town. A particular one. But town.

@TheButtonmen:

Do you think that if xvart is scummy because he increased his postcount after you started pressuring him?
---

After my post.

Yes, I do tend to be a little verbose. I like to write posts that are a little more extravagent to add some personal flavor.

I didn't mean you were verbose or snob. I meant that you used words that had a strong accusation implied in them. You wouldn't say a town player fabricates things, would you?

also. You're the first to mention a 3 man scumteam. Why did you? What do you think is more probable?

I like Humble, he posts a lot of info and makes cognizant points. I feel he's town.

Thank you very much. Do you have a similar feeling on anyone else? Or a scum-read/feeling on someone?

5cvm... You've just avoided answering my questions and mocked everyone. You're climbing higher in the lynching scoreboard. If you're town, I strongly encourage you to do whatever you think you're doing to get scum. But do it fast and claim who's scum.

@Seregil.

Can you look back at my first post and answer my question?

@Evilgorrilaz:

I forgive you. But you haven't posted enough to have the slightest read on you. Therefore, you're as much as a liability as 5cvm.

1. No, its definitely not straightforward. I said it in a blunt manner to get reactions and add dramatic effect. AranFan was basically writing off 5cvm as scum. You can interpret it in different ways, but I feel that if 5cvm is scum, AranFan is likely scum because of it.

Ok. What if 5cvm is town? Would that mean anything regarding AranFan's allignment?

Why do you try to guess teammates with no flips? How is that pro-town?

3. How is it not pro-town? Scum are, excluding Masons, the only players in the game who know each others' alignments. Therefore, there will probably be some connections between them. Looking for those connections is a genuine scumhunting tactic. Obviously looking for connections should not be completely substituted for individual scummy behavior, but it can be a profitable line of inquiry.

I feel that trying to connect one player (assuming scum) with another to explain why you're voting is extremely weak and subject to manipulation. Until you have a flip, you can't link players to get a lynch. You need to lynch them for their exclusive playstyle. You can try to analyze connections once you have information from a flip. I understand your view but I don't share it. I think is a bad move. Especially early in the game. And lets not forget about the fact that usually "nothing is what it seems" in mafia.

@ChiboSempai

. I know where you come from now. But still, you should only take into account MS games. Other websites lack the theory to make really balanced setups. MS is generally more balanced because it has more documentation and history.

I DONT think 5cvm is scum. It's just to bold for what I perceive his personality to be. He might be jester. But that shouldn't concern us at all. If you think he is scum. Lynch away.

I want this day to end. I've already made my thoughts on 5cvm clear-- think he's just goofing around. I'm tired of it.

This I can not tolerate. You havent posted enough to want the day to end. You provide no reads whatsoever because you've been absent (intentionally or not). You can't just end the day. Also, what if he is goofing around? Do you think scum would goof around? why? If you don't think so, why are you voting him?

@Seregil

, are you saying that 2 people that are fighting on day 1 are scum together? Why cant they be town against scum? Why can't it be town against town?

Because I'm not a fan at all of day ones, where everything is just conjecture based on little evidence. After the first night, when you can go back and look at previous posts and try to glean something, that's what I like in this game, not the he-said she-said stuff that, in my experience, usually just ends with a random person getting lynched anyway.

On an unrelated note,

mod

, I'm out of town on business until Monday, and my internet access will be sporadic if existent.

What posts do you pretend to glean on??? You, Evilgorrilaz, hito still need to post much more before we can get the slightest read. You keep going on V/LA and you want it to end fast? If you want the day to end now. You must surely have something to "glean"... because there wont be more posts if the day ends. What have you got. Avoiding this will cause me to vote you.

@ Humble

, What do you mean I said scum is overt? If they were this game would be a hell of allot easier. Also Welcome to the game, hope you enjoy your stay and if you don;t mind me asking what's your previous experience with mafia?

Mainly for this:

@Aranfan Eliminating someone as a possible scum because they are too scummy to be scum is a terrible idea!

Sigh even if there was a a Jester; playing as a Jester is basically playing like scum (given that a jester wants to be lynched, thus they emulate scum). So if there was a jester there should be no way to tell their posts apart from scums.

Thus to assume there's a jester and ignore scummy posts for being to scummy means you also ignore scum tells from the mafia.

Bolded for emphasis. I disagree that scum and jester play alike. Jester can be overt to get lynched. He might play however he likes. Drop subtle scumtells or be pretty obv. Scum can't really do this. It would be extremely foolish. Scum only gambyts playing too scummy and trying to be seen as a jester when people start waggoning them. So, in their desperation, they might resort to this WIFOMic tactic, doomed to fail. Because they migth be vigged or inspected. They're getting to much in the spotlight.

My experience in MS is 1 & 1/2 games by myself. The 1/2 game is because we broke the setup and the mod stopped it . A friend of mine introduced me to mafia and allowed me to contribute in his games. I've read like 13-15 gamse. I know the wiki. I've played some lame games on other sites too. I've played some basic mafia IRL too. That's about it. Without being arrogant, I'd like to consider myself a decent player. But I still have trouble sometimes separating bad logic from scum logic. Town can make mistakes too. I try to get reads on everyone before moving on. I don't want d1 to end fast without expressing who I think is scum with a decent degree of certainty.

anyway... what is scum's posting style? you mention it here. Have you seen someone posting like that?

Also there is no deadline so I don't feel any pressure to vote.

Dont you think votes are useful? They serve the purpose of pressure and they clearly define who you're accusing.

Evilgorrilaz: I think you're the one active lurking. You've said very little in the last few posts. I'm going to ask you something. What if 5cvm was modkilled and flipped town? Who would you vote then? What if he flipped jester?

Why are we not voting 5cvm. To everyone not voting 5cvm: What are you waiting for, exactly?

I dont think he is scum. Why do you want to lynch him so fast? What do you think about people like rite, hito or evilgorrilaz? How do you intend to get them if any of those are scum?

Even if we ended up lynching 5cvm we shouldn't end the day quickly unless everyone has posted enough content about the game.

I like.

Ok. From now on, I'll post once a day if possible. Im caught up.

So I'll

vote Evilgorillaz

but rite looks like a good candidate too. If I'm going to lynch someone. I'd rather lynch people I can't read at all and that seem to be trying to be in the spotlight.

[Humble Poirot]

sorry for the delay. December is crazy.

hitogoroshi says that he wants to policy lynch 5cvm.

Do you really intend to leave him around the entire game? Do you really want to say, "Congratulations, 5cvm, you are such a terrible player we're going to let you live despite the fact you will never be a productive member of this game!"

Not necessarily. I'll try to make him reason. Play better. Reveal his intentions. I've seen players like Zwets or others outside this site... I believe one can read them and maybe make something good out of them.

if you just policy lynch and everyone agrees you won't get any d1 info. D1 needs different waggons and interactions to work.

I stand by my earlier explanation. And in case you didn't notice, Aranfan and I posted at the same time. No mimicking. Also, do you see anything that you feel I should have pushed?

I hadn't noticed that. It's relevant, thanks. Strike any scummyness coming from that argument. About the pushing, I just feel that town players usually have more motivation to push cases around and accuse others (Even if that will put them in the spotlight) but some players are more laid back (regardless of alignment). There's no specific case to push, there's lots of possibilities and people to pressure.

Less inclined to go for a lynch on 5cvm now. His last post was very nice.

really? This is all you say?

Biggest thing to note here is that xvart has convieniently decreased his posting frequency now that he doesn't have to defend himself anymore. I should advise him to take a page out of TheButtonmen's book and post vague information and slightly helpful slightly directed questions.

Glad to see you can make points and accusations without being totally random.

People, let's face it. Do you think that 5cvm has enough cunning to play such a high risk gambyt and succeed by being deliberately scummy?
5cvm is not scum. I'd bet on it. If he is jester I'd dislike the mod too. But we don't have to worry about that right now.

Evilgorrilaz, why are you talking about 5cvm being modkilled? The mod doesn't have any rules about that. I said it in my first post.

Evilgorrilaz, please, elucidate for us, because the only sense 5cvm makes to me is if he's a jester.

Remember this, please.

lol... nice cats, hito...

@ChiboSempai

. I know where you come from now. But still, you should only take into account MS games. Other websites lack the theory to make really balanced setups. MS is generally more balanced because it has more documentation and history.

Website experience doesn't mean anything. Most of the ppl I play with on SWF also have accounts here as well and seem to know a lot more about the game than half of the ppl I run into on this site. This is kinda awkward to see coming from someone who only has 1.5 games of exp (not saying that I don't have a lot but still...)

Yep... But I've read far more than 1.5 and I've almost played alongside with a friend.

ChiboSempai. No lynch is a HORRIBLE choice. You will be giving scum the decision. You wont be forcing reactions out of people. You won't have bandwaggon info.

5cvm is extremely annoying, hito. I give you that. But I'd rather hit scum and let 5cvm be vigged, if that's possible.

Aranfan's post is extremely weird. It looks like a mild attempt to show himself scumhunting while not actually doing anything... wich he then accompanies with a threat...

@ConfidAnon: Is 5cvm scum? Why?

Wrong. If you can't find a method to 5cvm's madness and gorrilaz doesn't provide one, you lynch 5cvm for methodless madness. THEN, if he flips scum, you can perhaps follow this line of inquiry D2. But we don't do it in reverse (you are so crazy that I'm voting some other player for not explaining why you are helpful, but you keep shining on, you crazy diamond).

Hmm, you're right. It took the cats to drive the point home, but you're right.

Vote: 5cvm

If my count is right this should put 5cvm at L-1. So now would be a really good time for him to start making sense.

ok... Remember what I told you to remember?

Evilgorrilaz, please, elucidate for us, because the only sense 5cvm makes to me is if he's a jester.

Why is he voting a jester? He strongly believed Jester was the only choice...

This is a huge contradiction to his train of thoughts.

FoS Aranfan

.

ChiboSempai made the same point later, it seems. I like that.

Hito's push on 5cvm seems town. His irritation looks genuine.

We still have no info on rite. I hope we get a decent replacement.

Town reads:
hito
5cvm
xvart


scumreads:
evilgorillaz
Aranfan

Right now... I want more from Evilgorillaz before I decide if I should vote Aranfan.

Mod should make sure the new replacement is up to the task. We don't need a lurker who won't even read the game.

I know. This post is a mess... Sorry... I just wanted to be up to date and didn't have much time (I'm doing this at a friend's house).

[Humble Poirot]

Quick post, not much time, but this is insane... Scott.. How many pages have you read? Why did you rush to hop on the biggest bandwaggon?

[Humble Poirot]

My vote for 5cvm was because hito argued his point well enough to change my mind. Is changing one's mind scummy now?

If you don't explain convincingly how and why did you change your mind... yes it is.

The fact is that you totally flipped and are now willing to vote someone you thought was a jester.

EBWOP: Specifically, Hito convinced me that the benefit to the town of lynching 5cvm outweighed the benefit of keeping the Jester alive.

This is better. But we still need a lot more from you.

Who do you think is scum? why?

--------------
Ok. I'm going to forget my humbleness for a bit to deal with scott...

We need to remove the distraction now, as it will just get worse on subsequent days and hinder our ability to scum-hunt. I gave my reads on other players, but 5cvm is being so anti-town it speaks for itself. I don't see another way to go D1.

How the hell did you give your opinions on others?

You quoted #28 from xvart and said this: "Easy way to get out of RVS. Possible overreaction as scum here. "

You quoted #57 from xvart and said this: "
The sickening scum yet no vote is scummy. xvart---5cvm connection"

Then you said this: "I really don't like CS posts about discussing Jesters. They rarely occur and do not merit discussion D1. Very distracting. "

#168 from aranfan and said this: "The bolded part looks scummy. Almost as if he needs an excuse to vote and is attempting to "do a good thing for the game""

Then you voted 5cvm without having mentioned him before with this reasoning:
"I'm always on board for a policy lynch. It becomes too much of a distraction otherwise if we let him live. "


You haven't commented on anything in the game. You just said that 5cvm caused distraction and voted for him. We are not even sure if you even read the whole game.

Also, you clearly ignored my post.

I want to ask you. Is it lazyness? If so... why? Why did you join a game to post just 2 lines without a follow up and inmediatly vote someone to policy lynch them? Could you summarize the most important events of the game and what do you make of them?
----------------------------------

@ChiboSempai

: I'd like you to explain

beforehand

how do you think each flip (town/scum) of each player (5cvm, aranfan) would affect the other players (5cvm, aranfan, gorrila) and why? I'm strongly against lynching to get info on other people. It's a flawed premise. Why do you think you will get efficient information to decide someone's allignment?

In fact, I want anyone who pretends this info by flip is true to explain it in their own words too (hito, squirrel).

I repeat what I think. Deciding who to lynch based on connections without a flip is really open to scum manipulation and a direct way to fail.

Most of the suspicion on gorrilaz is based on the fact that he apparently likes 5cvm's play but has yet to defend his reasoning. But that's a lot of what-if that will condense into something far more tangible when 5cvm flips.

Wrong. EvilGorillaz hasn't added anything relevant to the game. He has been active lurking and not showing signs of scumhunting (Wich is what interests town. Scum doesn't need to do it. I know scum can fake it but sometimes they aren't able to do it), the same as this few posts by scott...
You, hito, despite going for the policy lynch (Something I don't like), have a lot of fervor and reasoning. You try to do what you think is best for town and firmly state it. You argue other arguments.

In two words: You try. That's why you're on my town list.

Evilgorillaz and newly replaced scott don't seem to be doing the same thing. That's why I'm very concerned about them. I'm also trying to figure Aranfan out.

Hito... you're doing it wrong... You keep talking about scumteams on d1... Bad idea. You keep trying to explain connections with no info on anyone and base your actions upon it.

@ChiboSempai:

Why would you lynch hito? Don't you feel he is earnest about the policy lynch? When you say "accidently guess correctly"... do you mean you think 5cvm might accidently be scum?

I'd like someone to prove me how scott is more helpful than 5cvm. With what we have so far.

I think 5cvm is town and I think he has potential to play pro-town (in his own unique way, but still). 5cvm is the easy lynch. We won't probably gain much from his flip. Scott has jumped on him without even commenting on the game and people are fine with it.

EvilGorillaz didn't like me at first, and then decided what I was doing made sense. This is extremely towny. Scum (my scum buddies) aren't trying to make sense of me, they're simply taking the position they feel would benefit them most and sticking to it with all their might.

So you think that saying you're town will help town more than scum? I had the impression that, right now, keeping you alive might be a nice scum move... For some reasons:
1) If you keep being anti-town you will keep hurting town
2) You will always be a great lynch candidate for many people.
3) If you're lynched (and flip town). They will be out of the mislynch waggon.

5cvm, the fact that you seem to play decently for a few secs and later fall back to your old lame jokes and unexplained votes makes me feel I can't blame hito for wanting to lynch you

He seems to think I could be either town or scum. Yet, somehow, he seems to think that if I was town, I would act against the town? What, does he think I would vote for someone and intentionally try to lose? That is madness. Or, at the very least, it's assuming I'm mad, a slightly mad act in itself, since I'm pretty sure I'm not.

You can't say this with a straight face. You've lost a great deal of credibility when you repeateadly ignored everyone and claimed scum every now and then. Unless you really start playing (with great reasons for everything you do and say) don't expect anybody to take you seriously.

[Humble Poirot]

I repeat...

Hito... you're doing it wrong... You keep talking about scumteams on d1... Bad idea. You keep trying to explain connections with no info on anyone and base your actions upon it.

I know you're right when you say we can't say X is scum for interacting with 5cvm in a way that would make more sense if 5cvm was scum too...
But you can't try to clear them either. The thing is, we don't know 5cvm's allignment nor any of the other players in the game. So we can't try to clear or accuse someone by making up a connection + assuming his allignment. It's a flawed way of scumhunting.
I think that scumteam guessing might come near Lylo (specially if we have a scumflip) but not before. D1 is a great day to watch people's playstyles and see if they're focusing more on scumhunting, hiding, defending themselves, others or what. How they react, how convincing they sound, if they can argue and change their pov or act firmly on the first thing they say.

D1 is Read-day... We read individuals. Now, we must lynch the individual wich we think is more probably scum but never allow people to remain a complete null tell for the whole day. We need to know what everyone thinks about a big number of issues.
---
PRE-EDIT: nice... more replies... I'll read them later... I need to work now...

[Humble Poirot]

mmm... Isn't there a 3 day prod?

It's been 4 days since I last posted...

mod

... We need you to be awake and pushy so we don't forget...

Anyway... I'll be posting later today... There's some things I want to say...

After 5cvm's posts... I'm still sure he must not be lynched today... I don't see him doing this as scum. Maybe as town, maybe even jester. Neither of those must be lynched.

I'm still satisfied with my vote but will develop on more in my next post.

[Humble Poirot]

mmm...

This game has not improved...

5cvm discussing theory is absurd at this point...

Wait, if I was town, do you think I'd intentionally try to lose? Maybe I need to seriously reevaluate the amount of faith people have in other players of mafia.

Dude... as scum or town... you have played as if you were trying to lose... so if you hadn't. The only thing that would make sense would be for you to be a jester.

What on earth is this?, Aranfan?

@Humble
I'm confused now. Are you are finding people scummy based on how much emotion they show while advocating a policy lynch?

Wait... WHAT? no... way... you get that from my actions...

Where did I advocate a policy lynch?
On another note. Emotion and the way in wich people act & react can be telling, yes.

As for his latest reply, I really don't understand why he's suspicious of everyone on the 5cvm wagon.

I think there is at least 1 scum on the 5cvm wagon. I don't think I am alone in this thinking. xvart/you both stated hito was being too opportunistic. I kinda think scott/arafan/confidanon were being more opportunistic, but w.e

1 scum in a 4 people waggon? Wow... what are the odds?

hitogoroshi... We WONT GET INFO from lynching 5cvm. It would be useful ONLY if he was scum. And he is not. I can read that much from his behaviour. He wouldn't be bold enough to pull such a stunt if scum. I'm sure.

Therefore. Lynching 5cvm is the most useless move even though he might be anti-town all game. Lets lynch scum before he hurts us more than he has already.

I still feel that those team-guesses and one or the other guesses people are posting are a direct way to failure and subject to scum manipulation.

We need to stop posting senseless filler posts about this. Vote who you think will FLIP scum.

MOD: You're responsable for this. We need to have votecounts regularly, at least after votes change...

Who's not voting yet? Why?

[Humble Poirot]

I'm here... I've just had my last college exam of the year... I've read a few posts and I'm quite interested in the new people and their opinions.

I've written some stuff but need to make a tidy post and review some aspects of this game...

[Humble Poirot]

I'm here... Lots of things have happened IRL and I thought I had been replaced by now... I guess I'm not... and now I have more time so I'll get to this game once and for all...

Sorry for my extended absence.

[Humble Poirot]

2 pages to go... I'm reading them right now...

[Humble Poirot]

Ok... finished reading and writing my (unfortunately huge) post... Let me make it readable so it doesn't get skimmed...

[Humble Poirot]

Ok... I'm sorry... this is just too long and messy and I haven't got much time. So just make sure to Ctrl-F your name and feel free to respond to any questions or comments I may direct at you. Again, sorry for the long absence... I thought I had been replaced by now.

I'd keep scvm around too if he shows willingness to use his vote realistically. Especially if he's willing to vote for who I want lynched once I think I've got someone.

1º part: You think this might happen? Do you think he has ever shown willingness? Why did you bash hito for not believing this was possible?
2º part: So you basically want to have 2 votes, one being of 5cvm? Isn't that what scum would plan? Aren't you trying to do the same things you claim to fear from scum?

Actually, if you think about it - what he's been doing is incredibly anti-scum if you put it that way, not anti-town.

huh? Lying as town is anti-town... if he is town... he is lying. There's very few gambyts that would allow you to lie... And I can't think of any good one that involves claiming scum. 5cvm is just not interested in this game. He is having fun spoiling it while probably thinking he can scumhunt.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 25#2025225
Civil... You don't make sense. You just don't. You pretend 5cvm is town because no one supports his policy lynch (meaning that scum want him alive) and then you vote the most fervent supporter of the policy lynch.

and squirrel appears to add fire to the situation... nice... scummy...

Squirrel in particular asks a lot of questions but doesn't actually post much analysis or anything. This is a pretty significant scumtell in my book.

QFT

Scvm is acting in as pro-town a way as the other active players. I think his strategy is this: at first, post without any content at all; then, when you start getting a read on people, draw the town's attention to scummy behaviour. This happens from post 216 onwards. It's not active scum-hunting, it's infuriating that he won't answer questions, but he's nevertheless making a positive contribution. I distrust the people behind the policy-lynch campaign, but also the people behind the free-pass-for-the-day campaign.

Oh... My... God... If 5cvm is acting as pro-town as anyone else I'm mother teresa... G_G

I found myself agreeing with TheButtonmen a lot. If he isn't town, his scum strategy is to be helpful to the town.

okay...? so? why did you feel the need to add that last sentence?

Civil... you will never have 100% knowledge of anything... But there's some thing called human behaviour... If you say that milkshake is a decent player... He wouldn't like to lose as scum by behaving like 5cvm is doing. Call it psychology but i'd bet stronly on it.

Civil's 416: Ok... you're starting to get annoying... Please, try to not get tunnelvisioned... Remember we can all be wrong. Try to put yourself on your suspects boots because different town players think differently.

I have a tendency to be overly-defensive, confrontational, over-aggressive, loud, and abrasive whenever I play this game. If that is offensive to your "palette"

This is a valid tactic that can elicit telling reactions (wich I consider extremely important to find scum) but you have to be careful not to get involved in a useless flame war if it ever comes to that. Why the name civil if you're over agressive?

I'm gonna go ahead and call Hito even more town imo.

As far as you still not taking any position other than this lynch, I also didn't like how you commented that you 'liked my style' after my first post, but didn't say if you had any initial impression of my alignment.

You think someone can develop a useful impression from a couple of posts? That's just wrong. You'll be glad to know that we couldn't disagree more. Everytime you speak we drift further apart.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 68#2027368
You're contradicting yourself so much it's painful to watch. That said... I don't think you're scum so far... Just really confused and eager to scumhunt. Wich is good. Try not to misrep hito so much.

@5cvm: Your post 425 clearly shows you as a careless player who thinks he is good... Why do you even suspect hito? Just lame OMGUS?

keep up the good work, squirrel? G_G

Top scum:
hito and arafan

Your case on hito is a contradiction of your own beliefs.

Tied for third:
brosius and humble

nice... reasons?

What do you think about evilgorillaz?

Humble sounds like a good/competent player, but his contributions, both in amount and quality, don't seem up to snuff.

I've been busy. I hope you like this contribution. Oh, and I almost wish you'd never come in to this game because you're just not thinking about what you're saying. I suggest you ISO yourself and try to summarize your thoughts. You won't be able to because you keep contradicting yourself.

And I especially didn't like how humble acts as if he's making a good/strong point here in this post.

The dead mocks the hanged... Maybe you missed it... But claiming someone is scum amongst half the players in the game is the same as not posting anything. Acting? Why? Because I used a rolleyes smiley?

Odd that brosius jumped all over gorillaz for thinking that scvm=townie but was fine with humble saying that he knew it for a fact.

Please... stop misrepping people... I don't know anybody's alignment for a fact. But after this game is ended... I'll more than likely be able to tell you "I was right, my reasoning was right, do you understand?"...

man... you even quoted me in 439... I talk about being sure after analyzing behaviour... Don't pretend I said it was a fact because, if you did, you should be voting me because the only ones that can know alignment on day 1 are scum.

And civil, you're doing it again. You're completely ignoring 5cvm - he doesn't feature on your list at all. Are you treating him as confirmed town forever?

Yep... he is... and this is sad because his first posts claimed it was scummy to want to keep 5cvm alive... But he is going after you just for that matter...

Are you treating 5cvm as confirmed town forever? If not, what would it take to get you to lynch him? Would you ignore all of your other scum reads on another day to lynch him? Or are you convinced you can divine 'scum reads' from a player who is actively claiming scum? What action could 5cvm do that you would consider scummy?

No. Not forever. Not irrevocably. But I'm fairly confident that he is town and can be inspected or shot by a vig(if we are lucky).
Today I wouldn't lynch him unless it was between him and you (or me).
I think I can read him, yeah.
This is a tricky question because If I answered and he was scum he would avoid doing this... and if I was scum I would say something that would benefit me in case I want to restrain him... No comments. I'll tell you if it ever comes to that.

I'm ignoring scvm?

YES! 5cvm just posted and you didn't do anything about it. Do you think he

There is no lynch as optimal to the town as 5cvm.

Not really. No. Unless you have a strong town read on him because he has got to be the worst player I've ever encountered... claiming scum... Sigh...

If 5cvm is town, the best way to do so is to make the logical case, not to attack those not voting for him. If he is scum, the best way to do so is to make it as painless as possible for his scumbuddies to bus him so we can get on with it. Hence making a strong case. The fact that he has many active defenders could be scumbuddies; there's simply no sense in speculating on that though when we can check by lynching the anti-town player first.

What the hell is this? You are literally saying "SCUM GET ON THIS WAGON NAO BEFORE I WHIP YOU WID MAH F*ING CATS". If you call 5cvm anti-town for claiming "scum" this is just as bad. This is asking for a quicklynch. This is TRYING to protect the scum. This is trying to make your policy lynch crusade/case seem (as you put it) "strong".

Vote:Hitogoroshi

^^ obvscum is obvious ^^

MY GOD... look at that post... completely jumping on the trend... It can't get any scummier than this... He doesn't say he thinks hito is scum... he is just posting some lame reasons (hanging on to Civil's vote) and voting an active player... nice...

It is WIFOM, or a null-information setting as hito called it. But, since there's a chance that scvm did it and broke the game outting his buddies (and it's not a remote chance, its a somewhere-in-the-middle chance), I would test it and see if it ends the game. That's difficult for you to understand from my position?

this is just useless discussion. Without knowing 5cvm's alignment all speculation about his scum claim and "outed scumbuddies" is void. Either lynch him if you think he is scum or don't but stop filling space with stuff that doesn't help us at all.

And I'll keep giving you advice... Think before you post... Posting a lot of things in little time will not make you protown if you don't even know what you posted earlier.

Ok... Insults... classy... You don't have the truth, you're frenzy and ilogical. You're contradicting yourself while thinking you're owning the game because you post a lot. Guess what? You're not. In fact... I almost think 5cvm is a better player than you at this point. Because he didn't need to resort to insults to try and prove a point.

Change your nickname.

Gorillaz post, his first in a while, is rather unsightly, but since I'm pretty sure that hito is scum, I'm willing to let it slide for now.

You're not pretty sure. You just feel challenged and got all tunnel visioned. If you don't stay open you'll be as much a liability as 5cvm.

And xfart also didn't have a problem with humble "knowing" scvm is a townie, or aranfan immediately writing scvm off as a jester. He just consistently wants to lynch gorillaz for some apparently uncertain reasons.

haha... I'm lynching Gorillaz because he is the perfect example of lame scum that doesn't want to be noticed... There's a whole lot of examples like the last one i posted. You, on the other hand, are voting hito despite saying that other people are scum for NOT behaving like hito did.

Not liking your usage of "Ad Homminem", since I'm not using it to further or support an argument.

So... you don't like and what? Is he scummy? or are you just initiating a flame war? What was the point in the ad hom if it wasn't to put you in a superior place? is it pro-town? why, why not?

Would you like me to start calling you Civil Idiot? No? Then please call everyone for a name they don't find insulting.

My strongest scum read is still on Arafan by a large margin, followed by Humble.

Good to hear... Since it's totally new to me... Would you mention the reasons for the scum read?

Everyone: Read this post carefully... It makes total sense, it's genuine. Hito is definetly my biggest town read.

I guess we are at an impasse Hito. I don't think 5cvm is nearly as anti-town as you make him out to be, and as a consequence his lynch doesn't seem so good for town in my eyes. Which means I think that your theory is retarded. (In that I see where your logic is coming from, but I disagree with that logic)

^^ MORE SCUM POSTS FROM SCUM!!! Please, guys, check it out... Evil is voting hito and KNOWS hito is town so he diminishes the mislynch he may pull by saying that he understands but doesn't agree with him...

There's a difference between not agreeing and thinking someone is scum.... EVil doesn't think hito is scum... in fact, he KNOWS hito isn't. A town player wouldn't talk like this about a person he is voting to lynch.

Sorry--I must have gotten the impression that you've been fixing to come after me.---> PROBABLY because your last five posts have been largely directed at, or about me. And I haven't liked it. (BW= bandwagon)

You've been excesively active posting controversial stuff that makes little sense when put together... It's not surprising that people will talk about you. Your over-defensiveness, although part of your personality, is becoming hurtful for town. You look like someone who can easyly become tunnelvisioned and OMGUSy... I can't really imagine your reactions once you read this post... You'll probably think I'm scum number one or something... because I don't seem agree ONE bit with you.

If you were consistent and had an important reputation you could maybe get away with acting like a condescending jerk... But if you try to do this being new to the game... It might cos t you and your team more than you would like. No, it's not a threat. Just a warning. Don't ruin this game with that attitude, please.

Tommy and Button are both pretty scummy in my eyes for asking lots of questions and not posting lots of content. News flash - just asking questions is NOT good scumhunting, it's a privilege you earn when you've posted a lot of analysis and you want clarification on something that hasn't already come up.

I don't know about tommy and will need to review him in the future... But I think what you said is spot on... Hiding behind questions...

Hito... I'm not giving up on a evilgorillaz lynch... it was the leading lynch until you switched to aranfan... Read the last posts of EG and tell me with a straight face that they're not full of scummyness...

I will stand by my statement... Strong actions and support of a cause despite many arguments (like hito, civil or even 5cvm's crazy attitude) are representative of town players because scum IS AFRAID to be EXPOSED by this kind of maneuvers and will usually try to look pro-town but also lay back.

Tbh though I'd almost rather just have him lynched instead of not so we can move on and use his flip to decipher any connections he might have had with others.

I would like to be released from 5cvm's anti-town playstyle too... But I'd rather get that satisfaction in the way of vigging than lynching... it would be a release, nonetheless...

Town reads
hitogoroshi*
5cvm*

leaning town
Civil Scum (replacing Seregil)
xvart

Neutral
Scott Brosius* (replacing rite*)
Tommy (replacing ConfidAnon*)
ChiboSempai*

No idea.
A_Squirrel** -> One minute he looks scum, the next totally rational and pro-town
Aranfan -> He is pretty much like Squirrel, he keeps doing weird stuff but also making a lot of sense when he explain his reasons. Need to reread him.

leaning scum
TheButtonmen* mainly based on his laid back attitude throughout the latest part of this day. His case on Aranfan came from back in the day when the jester discussion was on... And he seems to be pretending to be totally convinced by it...

scum
Evilgorrilaz* -> read him in ISO... Mild scum. Hiding... Look at his last couple of posts... they're most telling. He votes hito while excusing himself...

It's been so long that i don't remember too much details about this game... So I may need to do a re-read on neutral players and stuff... But I think we have enough for a lynch... And I think that players who are not voting EvilGorillaz, Aranfan or 5cvm should make clear what they think of this 3 guys (and vote evil because, after all, that's what he is )

[Humble Poirot]

Yeah... I may have to change my name to "Messy Poirot" soon... :/

[Humble Poirot]

Crap.... Sorry guys... Yet another screw up... I forgot to post the first part of my post... Yes... it was THAT long...

I still stand by me hito -> town read based on how genuine I feel his motives for wanting a 5cvm lynch are..

We WONT GET INFO from lynching 5cvm. It would be useful ONLY if he was scum. And he is not. I can read that much from his behaviour. He wouldn't be bold enough to pull such a stunt if scum. I'm sure.

Alright, this first part is ignoring the scvm-gorillaz connection, and some of the argument around aranfan. And I think it would reflect on hito as well, and buttonman. In fact, I think this is just a very lousy, very inaccurate statement. Knowing anyone's alignment allows you to go back over the game and look at how people treated/reacted to just about anything. And the second part, hito adressed this already, but this second part is just as unfounded. I somehow doubt that you can really believe this. You can say, 'my read on scvm is town.' But you've stated it unequivocably. 'He isn't scum'!?? At any rate, if u say this while buying into the attack on gorillaz's confidence, well, that would be bad news.

I disagree with you in that you can get those connections that easyly. I think you're going off for Occam's razor kind of like connections... There's no such thing in mafia... Defending or attacking players doesn't necessarily connect people. Lynching based on chain linked future info is still subject to scum manipulation.
I still think 5cvm is town despite being horribly anti-town and I've explained why. I also have suggested him as a good vig target anyway. So the fact that I'm not willing to let a lynch become just policy doesn't mean that I'm entirely against removing a liability to town.

Civil... Your whole first post attacks hito as if he didn't want 5cvm to change... Do you see a possibility of this happening? How good are the odds?

Xvart, gorillaz, buttons... having so many people flatly defending scvm like so many attorneys (and that his lynch didn't happen/is not happening as easily as it could have) makes me lean town for scvm.

This is the kind of thought process I dislike. You are willing to think someone's alignment is such and such based on what OTHERS are doing as opposed of what THEY are doing. I've seen town fail with this kind of thinking.

I realize this is my opinion replacing in, had I been playing the whole time I could better understand some of the aggravation, and I probably would have been calling for scvm's lynch as well. But at this point, I'm leaning town because so many people have refused to vocally and votily remove him as an element of the game.

More of the same awful (IMHO) thinking... You think that town players would not try to protect him? You think scum would like to keep him around or defend him so they're not on his mislynch or what? You're not explaining yourself clearly...

Although you do later say that scum would like to keep 5cvm alive and that's why you think he is town being protected by scum... You later seem intent on keeping 5cvm alive in hopes that he will get better... So you're acting exactly as you think scum would, right?
------------

And as a token... I had this in my notes (from 22nd of Dec)

Alright, this first part is ignoring the scvm-gorillaz connection, and some of the argument around aranfan. And I think it would reflect on hito as well, and buttonman. In fact, I think this is just a very lousy, very inaccurate statement. Knowing anyone's alignment allows you to go back over the game and look at how people treated/reacted to just about anything.

Define that connection.
You're entitled to think what you want. I mantain it's not lousy and it's not inaccurate. I've seen town fall enough times for this kind of ilusions.
I just don't trust people enough to be able to get much from a flip... specially when scum can acommodate their thoughts

I somehow doubt that you can really believe this. You can say, 'my read on scvm is town.' But you've stated it unequivocably. 'He isn't scum'!?? At any rate, if u say this while buying into the attack on gorillaz's confidence, well, that would be bad news.

I'll play my game. You play yours.

Again, I can't believe what humble said about scvm's alignment not mattering.

They were trying to lynch him to get information about others based on his allignment.

Xvart, gorillaz, buttons... having so many people flatly defending scvm like so many attorneys (and that his lynch didn't happen/is not happening as easily as it could have) makes me lean town for scvm.

I don't really understand this. Why would his lynch happen if he was scum? You think that his scumbuddies would outright buss him? You think scum is defending him? Staying out of the way? Why do you think the former is more likely?
There's one thing I like about your post, though... The reasons for lynching him and not and all this back and forth might give me just what I need to identify scum.

So I guess, replacing can be really disorientating haha, but atm I'd be willing to vote for aranfan, hito, brosius (rules out hito in my mind) or one of the people who has defended scvm- especially anyone defending a person who initially called for not lynching him (if someone can make a good case, or if I come up with one after reading again, thinking xvart maybe).

You have just tossed your whole post to the can... You kept wondering why we didn't lynch 5cvm and then you propose to lynch anyone but him because he hasn't been lynched yet?
----------------

Well... that ought to entertain some of you for a while... I'll try to be as brief as possible in my responses... If you can ask me direct questions it'll be easier.

[Humble Poirot]

@Aranfan

Considering that I'm the only one still on 5cvm you're probably right. While I would like to get button lynched, EG has the strongest case against him.

As opposed to whom? You? What are your reads on other players? Do you think EG is scum? Why? Is it solely dependant on other people's cases or you had a previous scum read on him?

I'll post my case on him tomorrow when I'm not falling down tired.

Ok. I'd like you to ask him questions about anything you find scumy (if there is anything) in his behaviour.
-----------------------

@Civil

Well, thanks humble. You spend 50% of your mega-post busting my balls, and then say you're leaning town on me

You have no idea the degree of annoyance that your posts have caused me. It has annoyed me greatly because I think you're town (If I thought it was a scumtactic I would just attack you and try to get you lynched) but I don't want other players to follow on the course of your thoughts because I think it could not be more wrong. Maybe I'll have to eat my words later but this is how I feel right now and I'm going to stand by it.

I don't have the time to make a mega post of clarifications and all my disagreements with you, or in order to look cohesive for your benefit. I started to do this and it's just going to be ridiculous.

I actually agree with you here. I don't think it will be in town's benefit to cope the game with long, dense discussions while letting everyone else skim under the radar.

I am sooo owning this game. Bah. Well, if posting too much or too many suspicions is like not posting, maybe I'll just cut in with a giant post every two weeks. Maybe we should all just do that, and the game will be better off.

I don't think you should cut back... Just try to be a bit more concise and let people answer before definetly judging them like you seem to have done with hito.

It was very nice of you to agree completely with hito on buttonman and to be as sure of hito's innocence as you are of scvm's.

Does this have a follow up? What's your point?

You attack me (not as scum but attacking my thinking?)

Correct. I just think you're wrong. Not scum. I've been wrong as town too. It's possible.

for reasoning on Occam's lines (or too str8 forward and simple) and then you deride me for not doing so.

I'm lost at what you're referring to... When did I deride you from not thinking 5cvm is town? I'm not understanding you right now.

One of the things that annoyed me the most was that you started off saying that 5cvm was town because he was not being policy lynched (wich implied that scum was trying to keep him alive or something similar) and then proceeded to vote the main advocate for the policy lynch. Attacking him for "not wanting 5cvm to improve" and then, when 5cvm posted nothing, you just ignored it.

But so was aranfan's claim that he had read every post in the game carefully and saying that (until recently-one page or so ago) only EG had defended scvm

I remember thinking arafan was scummy at some point of the game... And right now I can't remember much about him so I'll have to ISO him tomorrow. Yet, I don't think he will surpass my current EG scum read.

But I DO want an explanation of his vote on EG or anyone else he finds scummy. I want his own words.

And at the same time, ANOTHER incredibly conveinent vote from aranfan. So you still think scvm is the jester?

Mind you... I think that jester is the only thing that could justify 5cvm's playstyle. If he is town, he sucks. If he is scum, he sucks too.

And I still want him to be vigged.
----------------

@Tommy

:

Anything else you want to say about my posts? My point of view about hito? My point of view about 5cvm? My attacks against Civil even thought he is town? My list of reads? Something?
----------------

IMPORTANT

:

Finally... I don't we need to let deadline decide for us... I think we actually need to apply a hammer before (it doesn't matter if it's very close) so we can avoid any anti-town surprises and make sure everyone is clear on where they stand.

[Humble Poirot]

Not much time, fast post.

skimming through my notes there's a lot of points where I thought was Aranfan scummy (they're explained in my posts). I agree with hito that aranfan should make an effort and tell us what he thinks about everyone in the game, specially who he is trying to lynch.

No one should hammer if the opportunity arises. We need to

make sure everyone is clear on where they stand.

before that.

This is Evil's last post from the 2nd of January. He posted a very little post in another game the following day but there's no other record of his presence on MS.

I guess we are at an impasse Hito. I don't think 5cvm is nearly as anti-town as you make him out to be, and as a consequence his lynch doesn't seem so good for town in my eyes. Which means I think that your theory is retarded. (In that I see where your logic is coming from, but I disagree with that logic)

Scott hasn't been here since Dec 21... O_o We need a replacement. Desperately and I support the "make nigth as long as necessary so the replacement can catch up".

We have 2 days tops (to have a gap of 1 day before deadline to finally hammer) to get everyone to post their thoughts on the most relevant matters.

[Humble Poirot]

Wow... Interesting development. I for once, would've never given up... I was about to complain to 5cvm for the lack of explanation on the Aranfan vote... But it seems he was finally useful.

I guess we all have homework now. Read Aranfan and every possible link with every player and see what we might find.

I will have to rethink my thoughts about EG. I'm not saying he can't be scum with Aranfan but I need to find out what are Aranfan's links with him (and everyone else) before I claim anything.

Regarding button... He should also win some townie points due to his clashes with Aranfan. But I'm still annoyed with his laid back attitude and the back that he refuses to explain why he suspects me when he hadn't practically ever mentioned me before.

The good thing about having 2 possible lynches (in case EG is town) is that his partners might have not given up on him so there might be subtle defenses OR being afraid that he would get lynched in the future they might have bussed him. I guess it will all depend in the manners of the accusations/defenses.

Aranfan is not my absolute top pick, but he's better than evilgorrilaz. I will vote him.

L-1 alert.

Claim request.

unvote, vote: aranfan

I'd like an explanation regarding why you thought he was a better pick than EG.

And no, you're not getting who the other scum is out of me.

This might be WIFOM. But might also be a slip telling us that he has only ONE partner. It's not really that important though. If we find a partner and the game ends, we will know.

But your sins are forgiven you, having confessed and sought redemption...

Yeah, we will try not to smash your head to much when you are lynched... XD

So, I'll see you later.

Mod: Make sure you give a long enough night for Furry to catch up

[Humble Poirot]

This is really good... I gotta go to sleep now... (waking up early) but I'm confident that we have vig + sk... The only thing I'm unsure of is if we have another scumbuddy or if it was just Aranfan + Civil scum....

based on the flavour... SK killed furry... and I will develop on that tomorrow.

See you later.

[Humble Poirot]

Sorry for the delay... I had written some stuff at the beginning of the day but didnt get to post it and then was unable to post.

I'll post soon.

[Humble Poirot]

Ok. I'm not gonna keep annoying you guys... I've been having some personal problems in real life and never actually found the time or the desire to make the post to play the game as I probably should.

I haven't been able to really connect with this game... :/

First, I was waiting to see if a certain person would slip up and get him but I'm not really interested in it anymore.

So I'll proceed to vote ChiboSempai for being probably an SK.

I had thought a lot about the game on the first few days and then never wrote anything... I found very little:

------
What I got from reading Civil is that hito is OBV town. There's ABSOLUTELY no way that Civil would buss both hito and aranfan. Aranfan's links with 5cvm also improve my town-read on 5cvm to almost 100%.

Either could be sk but they're not.

Top scum:
hito and arafan

Tied for third:
brosius and humble

Warm holiday fuzzies for now:
Tommy
Buttons

scum killed Tommy.
Sk killed Furry/Brosius.
Vig killed Civil.

I'm certain that with Civil's leading attitude, he was the one to pick Tommy for the kill.

With 8 people today. We'll get the SK.
----------
I was pretty sure we had one SK yesterday and I'm now pretty sure we still have another scum guy left. We should lynch SK because he is probably unkillable (1 time, perhaps).

Vote ChiboSempai

I'd like him to claim his role and action (if he has one). I'm pretty sure he is not town aligned, and, based on his connections with dead scum and his posts today, I'm sure he is SK.

Of the remaining people... we have xvart, button, EG and squirrel. Scum is there. IMO. Vig should consider killing any of them.

Now that I've posted about the game... I'll try to find Aran+Civil's scumbuddy for tomorrow.

I'm wary of button's "mafia is no more" speech. DO NOT trust him.

[Humble Poirot]

Xvart. I just figured based on what I read from the mod. He doesn't look very experienced and new mods usually make swingy setups with SKs and mafia.

I mean, look at it. Vig + SK + Mafia. If we had mislynched and those 3 killed town. we could very well be 5 town + SK + 3 mafia.

If you want to find a reason for the SK kill. Read this:

Judging by who died though, it's extremely likely that either the mafia or sk (if there is one) killed Furry and not the Vig. At least, it would be really stupid for a Vig to do so -_-
Since Furry just joined and didn't have time to voice his opinions, it was smart for whoever killed him to keep the town quiet.

That is an SK revealing his plan as if it was a theory.

There's really nothing you can take about who killed who in terms of flavor. There is nothing saying that a SK has to slice or scum has to shoot. It could be the other way around.

This is just an attempt to dim the truth. SK usually uses the knife.

This whole cheerleading thing against Chibo is very interesting...

lol. If you can't see the obvious... Complete a phrase.

Also, About Civil's list. He wouldnt buss hito and Aran so hito is obvtown. Tommy is dead. Furry is dead. His other suspect was me. It should give you a bit to think unless you think he was bussing me too. But you'll probably scream WIFOM and not see the truth before your eyes.

For now... Just lynch ChiboSempai. If he is town. You can pursue me tomorrow. Our ponderings make zero sense because you never tried to understand them or even read the game. Read people in ISO.

I'm probably going to be unable to post for a couple of days. If I am here, I will post at least "Im here" to let you know. If not, that means Im away from internet. Thanks.

[Humble Poirot]

Ok. I'm here and waiting for your answers. No V/LA needed.

while we are at it...

I'd like to know why button doesn't think there's a third scum... How improbable do you think it is? Have you never seen games with 3 scum + SK?

Anyway... We will know for sure after we lynch the SK but I want to know what people think about it.

also... Xvart said Button and me were scummy because we made no sense... yet, he didnt vote. Why?

[Humble Poirot]

What is the deal with the hardcore tunneling? Not to mention the point that you're trying to quickly end the day before other discussion.

What's the deal with avoiding to recognize that you're not town? What's with posting just a lame defense and trying to switch tables? End the day with no discussion?

Reading through everything again and thinking about it more, I don't like EG's play atm. I see that he hasn't posted in quite a while, and one of his last posts was wondering if we should 100% focus on just an SK and forget about the mafia thinking there weren't anymore. That + coasting together gives a perfect scum read, he tries to convince us to not look for him + lies low anyway to keep safe.

You're attacking the ONLY one who can't respond. You're attacking him for being focused on an SK and that makes it a "perfect" scum read? notice the word, used as an excuse. It's a PERFECT excuse to vote him. So no one can attack ME for it.

I would also like to hear from him again soon and start posting.

Your vote is easy and lame. How is EG scum or how is EG SK?

Essentially when it comes down to it though, besides finding links to a specific role (like what I just did for EG), mafia hunting and sk hunting are similar. We're both trying to uncover players that don't want to be killed that are against the town.

You're one of them. Trying to lynch someone who isn't here. I remember when they complained about Aranfan doing this trying to lynch magisterrian (me) when before I replaced in.

As for the whole are we at Lylo kind of thing, it's really situation. There would have to be another scum, not lynch scum or sk and have the scum and sk both nail a townie, and have a vig mislynch all together i believe, though I didn't do the calculations.

random nonsense. Talking about the setup to make filler post. You're not town. Face it.

As for "unveiling my plan" as Poirot suggested, I'm mearly just trying to find out facts about the game.

No. You said what you thought. This is not what I'm going after you. But it's still funny that you explained your reasons for acting like you did.

There's no connections between Furry and you and very little info to be gained for his kill... you said it yourself. That's why you did it.

@Hito: Unvote EvilGorillaz and vote chibosempai. Chibo IS here and EG is not and CHIBO is not town so we NEED to lynch him. EG can't defend himself and Chibo is just trying to save himself instead of scumhunting. Look at his post (and his earlier posts).

Everyone else who's not playing this game. Come and do so. It is extremely boring and frustrating. We should be very close to winning if we just post. I know I'm no example but I'm trying now.

[Humble Poirot]

Thanks, hito...

Anyway....

Where is everybody? This game looks deader than dead.

We need an active replacement and we need it ASAP.

MOD

: you can't end the day without a replacament. We need an extension.

[Humble Poirot]

I'm busy right now but I'll add some stuff later.

Right now. What I'd like is a bigger waggon and

ChiboSempai claim.

Maybe it can chance my mind, who knows.

For now, I take full responsibility for his lynch.

[Humble Poirot]

I'm back from my trip.

I'd like a Chibo claim ASAP too. Chibo isn't doing anything but trying to stall. I feel sorry for him because he didn't play a bad game in the beginning but, he is scum, so what are you going to do about it...

I'll read the last posts in a couple of hours and try to make that damned post I've been trying to post for a while now.

The worst thing of this game is that the mod seems to have died in the general inactivity too.

meh... I'm going to read quickly so I can give you some quick thoughts and you don't have to wait further...

Jase... EG was very scummy to me all day 1. He MAY be scum but it's not our priority right now. We need to catch the SK.

if you think hito is scum you're saying that Civil scum bussed BOTH his scumpartners... That would be bold... I don't think it happened.

I like 648, you're on the right track there.

I'm making you uneasy... :/ Sorry, It may be my excessive lurkyness and erratic contributions. I understand. You're welcome to ask me anything but I'd like you to ask for Chibo's claim along with the rest of us who are requesting it.

I <3 Hito.

Hito, it's really not the best idea to talk about your strongest town reads. While it's ok to mention some things like who is fine and all, it's not good though to say strongest reads like that though sort of giving scum a target of who to take out. Scum can then take them out and leave us with a bunch of players that we're unsure about which makes mislynches easier to happen.

nothing, nothing... This is a fluff post. Nothing is definite. The important things are the reasons for eachread in context.

Why are you trying to force me to claim hito? There's still plenty much to be done. Flipping votes around and trying to get me to claim when I'm not even at L-1 with more to do seems more like rolefishing by pressuring to figure me out.

Now THAT is a lame accusation. hito is rolefishing? Come on... He asked you to claim because he intends to lynch you and he is not the only one. Button and me want that too. You don't need to be at l-1 wich is hard to get to because we have many inactive players.

I know it's frustrating but you're still NOT town. So...

Ok... I really need to go now... I promise a better post and answers to any questions you might have in a couple of hours (6-8)

PS: Chibo, CLAIM!

[Humble Poirot]

Damn. I keep forgetting about this... I have a half written post. I'm going to finish writing it.

As you know. I still want a Chibo lynch.

did we get a mod yet? It's not that hard. All we have to do is email the pms we received.

And based on our flaky, inexperienced mod. I'm pretty sure we have 3 scum + SK + vig. He probably considers the super setup cool or something.

[Humble Poirot]

I'm willing to let it die too... It was nice playing with you Hito.

And thanks for the effort Jase.

We already have the SK -> Chibo and 2 scum... So it's good enough for me.

[Humble Poirot]

I'm still here, waiting to see how Chibo gets lynched.

He WILL flip SK. No doubt about it. And I'm also pretty sure there's one other scum (Who's probably pretending there's not or totally inactive)

[Humble Poirot]

Great Job Button... You were the man of the match.

I was Jack of all trades with
- 1 weak doc protect (if I don't protect town I die)
- 1 redirect
- 1 track

I tracked ChiboSempai and saw him going after Furry last night. So yeah, he is the SK.

[Humble Poirot]

I told you hito... Newb mod made this setup PR heavy... But I couldn't outright say it without outing myself as one...

Since Boxman didn't modkill 5cvm for claiming scum I knew we'd have problems with him. He never posted votecounts either. He never actively searched for replacements... It's not that hard. Seriously. His low activity (not giving prods) made lurking and inactiveness a general disease.

5cvm's play this game wass horrible. He made an alt so he could screw with other people and wasn't decent enough to finish playing the game. That pisses me off... I'll remember he is milkshake.

If EvilGorillaz is not scum then this setup was pretty anti-scum. I hope that the sk was kill inmune too or it would've been hell for him.

We still won, in my opinion... Somebody should pm Civil Scum asking them if he had any partners (EG) or not. Chibo was definetly going to get lynched.

[Humble Poirot]

Evil gorillaz was the third scum

, you guys had them both against the wall, part of the reason I was making so much noise

lol!!!

I was right!!! Damn it!! I knew that EG had to be scum!!! What was his role?

Yeah, hito I was also less than impressed with the number of pr's, especially killing roles. I think I'll only play standard games form here on in.

What you need to do is look for reliable mods.

And for the record, I can't believe scvm didn't get lynched and no one agreed or listened to you on that. Haha --->RIDICULOUS!

I kept telling you guys... 5cvm scum didn't make sense... He was doing it for the lulz... HE wouldn't risk getting lynched by acting like that if he was scum. I'm not saying some people might refuge in audacity but it just didn't fit his profile.

I think that, given that we attacked both scum on day one, killed the other scum night 1, were going to lynch the SK day 2 and I was probably going to redirect EG to himself night 2... This is an honorary win. Too bad the mod flaked so hard.

I'm happy with my reads this game. The only thing I didn't anticipate at the time was Civil Scum -> scum but I usually lean town on pro-town players in the beginning because it helps the game even if they're scum.

Too bad I had a lot of things going on IRL. Sorry about that.

Also... when thebutton said I was scummy without ever having said so earlier I suddenly put him on my list as scum with EG to see if he would react crazyly or something. But he didn't so I dropped it.

All in all... good job fellas... We pretty much nailed them. Scum would've had it rough anyway, with so many PRs... but after last night... it was outright impossible for scum to win.

so... town win in bad setup.

see ya.