Mini 916 ~ Brrr Mafia. GAME OVER

[Jasper]

While I am not first, I am here.

Glad to be playing here.

[Jasper]

Vote: Jasper

for not RVSing in his first post. He is obviously planning his NKs right now.

So because I don't RVS, I am scum? Interesting theory... a wrong one, but an interesting theory.

[Jasper]

Who says I am objecting to the RVS? Yes, this is the beginning stages of the game and mostly people put out random votes. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

Do you plan on doing anything useful while the rest of us continue with the RVS?

Do you? I am watching you all play the game... just because I don't jump around and vote randomly, doesn't mean I am not playing.

[Jasper]

I didn't say you were, I asked if you did have an objection.
Jasper, how would you describe the archetypical scum?

No, I do not have an objection to RVS. Sometimes I randomly vote, sometimes I do not.

This being my first game here, I chose not to.

The archetypical scum? That is something that is hard for me to answer. Because I have, on other forums, seen different tactics from people as scum.

The loudmouth
The lurker
The pusher
The follower

[Jasper]

@Jasper
1. It's quite obvious I was being sarcastic. The wall of sarcasm that oozed out of my RVS vote was thick enough to suffocate the crowd here. I truly hope you are not serious, as we all know... my argument was full of RVSness. Your response however is a red flag because you emphasised how wrong I was, without doing anything else. I frown upon that.

1. I know you were being sarcastic, and I was in tow answering you. Sometimes sarcasm is hard to convey in its pure text form with out showing you were sarcastic... a sad thing, indeed.

[Jasper]

EBWOP: Was being sarcastic in tow answering you.

[Jasper]

@jasper
I still want to know what is a pusher, plz explain.

Someone who pushes for a lynch... someone who acts extremely town and pushes a "Die scum die" attitude, while all the while knowing. Then the next day, when starting to feel the pressure, they use the "they were acting uber scummy" excuse... which the pusher got them into uber scummy statements by pushing on them.

Jasper, reading mafiascum now it seems like "alts" are a bit of a problem and quite common now. Are you an alt? If so, why? If not, why not?

I am not an alt. This is my account. Why am I not an alt? Because... I'm not. <.< ...... >.>

[Jasper]

@Jasper
1. References.

I am speaking from over 2 years experience on another site. I am sorry, but I do not have the time to sift through them all and remember which games had which kinds of scum.

So sorry to disappoint.

Jasper got a little defensive on what was probably a joke by DTM.. nothing much but still slightly defensive. that is the very first thing I noticed.

You should know me by now Jas, that I wasn't being defensive... in fact, I posted the next post that I saw his sarcasm and matched it.

[Jasper]

jee:

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen. Unvote.

I think this can be a scum tactic... I think someone else already brought this up so I won't elaborate, but since jee just explicitly stated that he actually had no reasons for his vote it seems weird.

I have been going back and forth on voting for DTM or jee... but this vote for no reason then unvote for no real reason...

Vote: jee

Welcome to the game Zachrules!

[Jasper]

First I have heard of you being suspicious of anyone. Why do you find DTMaster scummy?

His constant "I want examples"... coming down to demanding I give him a link.

His weak daykill explanation.

His seemingly good work at trying to push the attention away from him.[/b]

[Jasper]

@Jasper
1. Why is it that Jason gave the link but you refused to. When I ask for meta references, I would like them please. The only reason why I stopped hounding you was because of Jason's link and confirmation of your experience.

Isn't it more anti-town to refuse references then to give them? It's like refusing to answer a quesiton.

2.Also your passive, indirect attack on me is noted since you aren't even scum hunting me, nor questioning me. It looks scummy because you are riding passively on this. If you think I'm scummy, say so to my face. This is quite new news to me since You are pretty much parroting Nikanor's argument.

GAIS WE MIGHT HAVE A NIKANOR JASON SCUM LINK HERE. Screw the Jee wagon I rather have a Jasper wagon.

3. Also you parroted Seven, Nikanor, blah blah blah blah blah.

YOU ARE SCUMMY. There, I said it to your face. Your self-imposed post restriction... the fact that you think that just because you demand that I post links to off-site games to prove my talk, that I am just going to get down on all fours and bow to your whims.

You say you see a Nikanor/Jason wagon... but yet you vote me.

You want a Jasper wagon. Why? Because I refused to give you a link? Because I refuse to sit here and let you intimidate me? Sorry DTM, not working.

Was looking for reaction, not a wagon, specifically at inverno. Thats why I unvoted.

Okay, this makes enough sense to me after going back and looking through things.

unvote

I find DTM the most scummy right now. He sticks out in my mind... so... OMGUS or not...

Vote: DTMaster

[Jasper]

True, i contradicted myself! But there is one thing called changing my mind.. And wacky actually pointed out some stuff about DTM.

So you are now just following Wacky?... because before that post you had 100% and town in the same sentence about DTM.

Unfortunately Lynch_All_Liars is a long-standing mafiascum tradition which I fervently believe in, and your other actions aren't exactly faultless either IMO.

Something I believe in too.

Also ITT Jason is setting off more townie vibes.

[b[ Unvote [/b]

Vote: Jasper

I am still confused as to why you went to Jas in the first place...

[Jasper]

@Mod: requesting V/LA status till Thursday

@Town
Do not hammer! I have pending questions to answer

ITT Zach is willing to hammer me when Nikanor has some questions which I need to do some quote pulling. Please make note that Zach has offically become: the eager scum hammerer.

Actually, that is how Zach plays quite often. He sees someone as scum and wants them lynched.

[Jasper]

However, The1fifi is my #1, and I want to see his case on Jasper, though I doubt it exists. The "in memory" line is not sufficient.
Fifi's distancing/support of the DTM lynch looks REALLY bad to me.

I went back and read the beginning of the game, because that is when The1fifi decided to vote me, then when pressured promptly unvoted me... and said it was not a RV and that there was a reason to vote me (everyone else had 0 reasons)...

now on Day 2 opens up and votes me again... in "memory" of DTM... because he was saying I was scum in D1... yet, he was a liar, and did a ton of scummy things...

FOS: The1fifi

[Jasper]

I am not a cop. And I am not scum either. What are you implying, The1fifi?

[Jasper]

I am not a cop. And I am not scum either.

What are you implying, The1fifi?

Sorry, you don't ask a question like that and then just ignore a question in response.

[Jasper]

I am implying you are wether scum or a town power role.

And how do you know this? I mean, you have been seen as highly scummy, so now all of a sudden you are coming after me... the guy who DTM was hard after me in Day 1. You said you didn't find me suspicious early... then didn't go after DTM despite him lying and being hugely scummy... now, you just "happen" to know this? You didn't say it in your first post. You said it was in memory of DTM... who was lynched.

Very suspicious, you are.

[Jasper]

Obviously i don't wanna claim. just like you. but for diferent reasons.

You have already soft claimed... funny. I told you the truth. I am not a cop and I am not scum.

[Jasper]

However, The1fifi is my #1, and I want to see his case on Jasper, though I doubt it exists. The "in memory" line is not sufficient.
Fifi's distancing/support of the DTM lynch looks REALLY bad to me.

I went back and read the beginning of the game, because that is when The1fifi decided to vote me, then when pressured promptly unvoted me... and said it was not a RV and that there was a reason to vote me (everyone else had 0 reasons)...

now on Day 2 opens up and votes me again... in "memory" of DTM... because he was saying I was scum in D1... yet, he was a liar, and did a ton of scummy things...

FOS: The1fifi

@Jasper: Why do you think The1fifi deserves an FOS but not a vote? The1fifi seems pretty suspicious to me considering that whole "DTM will flip town" thing yesterday (on top wishy washy voting and the rest)

I didn't want to seem too OMGUS about it... but this latest string of bs has me convinced she is trying anything to get me lynched now.

Vote: The1fifi

[Jasper]

@Jasper : really? You gona vote me, even after i claimed gunsmith? Die scum

You didn't claim gunsmith. You said I had a gun. That is all you said.

@Wacky - Yes, I have a gun, but there are no bullets in it. And with this snow, how am I going to get any?

[Jasper]

Die scum

I am not scum. But nice try, seriously.

[Jasper]

You asked if I had a gun. I told you I did. How do I know I do? My role PM says so.

@Wacky -

Kill: Jasper

Kill: Wacky

Nothing will happen, but you asked for me to prove I was not a

day

vig. I have no problems doing that.

@The1fifi... here you go again with your wishy-washy ness...

And I did not outright vote you once you voted me. I did a FOS at first... then you claiming I was scum and you knew it, that is why I voted you.

[Jasper]

That was absolutely without question the most bullshit wagon hop on I have ever seen in my life.

Vote:The1fifi

More later.

Ouch, hit with an OMGUS right in the face

You kindof deserve it for the way you just followed camn...

[Jasper]

Because it is a part of my role.

[Jasper]

But I would like to know what motivated Fifi to target Jasper.

I am interested in this too.

[Jasper]

Because it is a part of my role.

So you have an empty gun and that's the only aspect of your role?

Yes, I now have an empty gun.

[Jasper]

I am a one-shot vig. I shot Regfan last night. He was 2nd on my list for scum, after DTM. I have no more bullets. I had one shot and I thought I made the right call. I am town-aligned, not a 3rd party.

[Jasper]

His top 3 were McZombie, you and me. He had put in a few good posts, but he never really did much. I had high suspicions of him, so I thought I was doing the right thing.

[Jasper]

It was one of the factors...

And I did not kill Echo because I did not get a huge scum reading off of Echo.

[Jasper]

UNVOTE

NO MORE UNPROVOKED CLAIMING, PEOPLE!

No soft-claims.
No full-claims,
PLEASE!

That said, a fifi lynch is off the table for now, and I gotta think.

I tend to believe them both.

I didn't because of this. Then Nikanor asked for a claim and I did.

[Jasper]

I am glad you all think I should have waited until Day 2... or shot Echo (camn) instead of Reg... but I did what I did.

@camn & Nik: I thought he was really playing up to the town and trying to distance himself from the VERY scummy DTM. When the flip happened, I read through the posts again and made my decision.

@The1fifi: Wow... you have really turned a simple day 2 investigation into something so damn wrong! jbenier39 has yet to truly get questioned for his actions... because you:

have asked about a cop
have mentioned a doc

You ARE rolefishing. Zach is not tunneling.

[Jasper]

Anyone not voting Jasper or fifi... FOS!

Bad form! A lot of these people are seeing both of us as town. I don't like this one bit, Seven.

Unvote, Vote: Seven

[Jasper]

Actually Fifi, I disagree. Seven just said anyone not voting you or I needs to be FOS'd. People say you or I are the lynch today. This is along those lines.

[Jasper]

@Nik, I am lurking? Really? I have been pretty regularly posting when I am on here. So I don't see how I am lurking. I worked most of the afternoon and night yesterday.

@Wacky, I love how you bring it back to me. I agree with Fifi that you are trying to detract from actual hunting by tunneling on me. Most of who is left believe I am town. I am sorry that you don't, but I am town. Did I fuck up the way I breadcrumbed my claim? A little, yes. But I am what I am and I am town.

[Jasper]

@Nik, I am lurking? Really? I have been pretty regularly posting when I am on here. So I don't see how I am lurking. I worked most of the afternoon and night yesterday.

@Wacky, I love how you bring it back to me. I agree with Fifi... Nikanor and it seems you too, are trying to detract from actual hunting by tunneling on me. Most of who is left believe I am town. I am sorry that you don't, but I am town. Did I fuck up the way I breadcrumbed my claim? A little, yes. But I am what I am and I am town.

[Jasper]

You fail to even believe I am town. You can see others as town, but not me. You think I am the best lynch for the day. If I am to be the lynch for the day, it would be to show you that I am town-aligned, like I have stated... that I am a one-shot vig... and that I really think it would shed some light into the belief that you are indeed the scum who is trying to push me into being lynched.

[Jasper]

If I am a vig, I have no buddies. I am a vig, which means I am alone in my actions.

[Jasper]

Well, I made my claim... I have a bunch of people, including you, believing me. I may not have done what everyone else would have done as a vig, but I own my action and I admit I was wrong.

@Seven - What do I need to do to prove I am town?

[Jasper]

OMGUS accusations are pretty funny coming from you considering Camn...

You *do* seem to be piggybacking, Zach... which is weird for you. When I play against you and you are town, you are a strong leader. But you piggy-backed jb on the Seven wagon... and now you unvote and want to look at camn and possibly lynch me... when you were so damn sure I was town.

[Jasper]

Ok. I have done some rereading. For now, my scumlist holds.

@JASPER:
What does your role say exactly re: bullets. Anything? Is that flavor included? Did it say "one bullet" or did you paraphrase that?

It said I was a One Shot Vig and because of the snow I could not get more ammo. I had one shot and that was it.

[Jasper]

It wasn't just an OMGUS kill. He never voted me, he just said I was scummy. I was reading his stuff in night one and there was something I didn't like and I shot him.

Wacky, I doubt there is anything I can say to you to get you to think I am town... you are so deadset on killing me.

So, I guess if it will help you guys learn so much more... go ahead and lynch me. But I am what I claim to be. A one-shot vig. I fucked up and shot the wrong person. So it looks like that will get me killed.

Some of the same people who said they believed me town (jbernier, Fifi) are now voting me.

So... I can't think of anything else to use to defend myself. I have tried and they still want my death. So... let them have it.

But I won't do it myself.

[Jasper]

Who's scum Jasper?

My top 2 suspects are Wacky and Seven.

[Jasper]

No, Incognito... I had never encountered the gunsmith before.

[Jasper]

Jasper: I guess the better question is had you ever

heard

of the Gunsmith role prior to this game?

No, I hadn't.

[Jasper]

Maybe a little of both?

[Jasper]

Right now, I haven't had the time to go to that post and quote every point and say things about each one. But if I believe you to be scum (as I do), it wouldn't make a difference because you already know me to be town.

[Jasper]

Multiple can be two. You do know that, right?

[Jasper]

YOU ARE SCUMMY. There, I said it to your face. Your self-imposed post restriction... the fact that you think that just because you demand that I post links to off-site games to prove my talk, that I am just going to get down on all fours and bow to your whims.

You say you see a Nikanor/Jason wagon... but yet you vote me.

You want a Jasper wagon. Why? Because I refused to give you a link? Because I refuse to sit here and let you intimidate me? Sorry DTM, not working.

It just seems like it's a bit strong. His previous statements about DTM were very soft, and as soon as DTM points it out Jasper gets pretty pissed. This could just be personality (thoughts on this jason?), but it could also be that he doesn't like having the pressure put on him like that.

I didn't get pissed. Did I seem pissed to you? He wanted me to say he was scummy, so I said it. I wanted to use caps for emphasis.

[iso 11]:

First reasoning besides OMGUS that we see for his vote on DTM, echoing Wacky (Lynch All Liars).

This is the only reasoning we ever get for his DTM vote. Suspicious as hell IMO.

Well,, I believe in LAL... I wasn't the only one to agree with Wacky on that either, but since you are only doing ISOs on me... you don't see it.

[iso 13]:

Starts off by FoSing fifi. Nothing suspicious about this, in the case of Jasper-town & Fifi-town. But in the case of Jasper-scum & Fifi-scum, this is carefully planned distancing. He states suspicions about Fifi "upon a re-read of D1". Then fifi "goes after him", series of posts defending himself and placing suspicion on Fifi. If these two are scum, this is pretty well-played distancing.

Yes, during D1... Fifi's quick vote, then unvote of me... and a few other things I found suspicious.

[iso 18]:

Now here it gets interesting. Wacky points out that it's strange that Jasper finds Fifi suspicious but isn't voting, so he says "I didn't want to seem too OMGUS [like your D1 vote?] about it". So once again he is using something Wacky says to justify his vote.

No, I didn't see enough suspicion at that time to vote for Fifi... plus, you all seem to go pretty apeshit over anyone who does an OMGUS... so yeah. All my votes have been on someone who has voted me. Well, a lot of you have done so... so how could a vote I put on someone NOT be OMGUS right now?

[iso 21]:

And I did not outright vote you once you voted me. I did a FOS at first... then you claiming I was scum and you knew it, that is why I voted you.

Then why were you initially worried about your vote seeming OMGUS? You claimed this to be your reason for not voting for fifi sooner.

And then in [iso 22] you admit that your vote was OMGUS and justify it by saying

You kindof deserve it for the way you just followed camn...

See above...

[iso 24]:

But I would like to know what motivated Fifi to target Jasper.

I am interested in this too.

You would think that this would be one of the first questions Jasper might want to ask Fifi. This points to the likelyhood of a Jasper-Fifi scum team once again if Jasper flips scum, because as scum he would know that Fifi did not actually "target" him for anything and might not think of asking the question. Eh, maybe it's a bit far-fetched but it's an extra point on Fifi's scum roster if Jasper flips.

You can ask Zach and Jason... sometimes I don't always think of the right questions. And this is a much different mafia flow than the other place I play... I actually like it here... not the same group of people in each game, so trying to figure things out is more fun... but I am not always thinking of the "right questions" to ask. I don't normally ask questions all the time... if I do have a question, I do ask it.

[iso 30]:

Gives his reasons for targeting RegFan. Does not give reasons for using his supposed only bullet N1. D1 he was very careful to only mention DTM as suspicious, so we have no real way of knowing who was 2nd on his list.

I was real careful? Hell, Regfan just showed up right before jbernier dropped the hammer. And I had suspicions of Fifi. You mentioned it ^ up there.

[iso 31]:

Votes for me. This is suspicious as hell, really. I'm not saying there are not good reasons for trying to lynch me, but coming from Jasper...

- He does not participate in RVS, and in all of D1 places only one vote. As someone who doesn't participate in RVS I'm assuming Jasper is the kind of player who doesn't throw out votes randomly and really weighs the possibilities before voting. He jumps on this wagon so damn fast and completely drops any suspicion of Fifi without a second thought, because he doesn't actually want to lynch his scum-buddy.

Hell Seven... you come out and say everyone NOT voting Fifi and I were FOS'd. And you didn't think I would find that scummy? You have GOT to be kidding me here!

-

A lot of these people are seeing both of us as town.

But you don't see Fifi as town, so why is this a problem? Because you don't actually want a Fifi lynch.

You already know my stance on this. Best lynch right now.

I don't know if I believe the gunsmith claim or not. I have never encountered a one shot vig or a gunsmith... or even a jailer before this game. Fifi could have a scum tracker type role, or could be telling the truth.

I have made my claim and I am telling the truth. Apparently I am the policy lynch today because I have a gun, it did have a bullet in it, I shot Regfan.

Did I go about reacting to Fifi correctly? Apparently not. But I did it and I can't change it. So I guess lynch me if you need to get info... but you already know I am town... so it doesn't matter.

[Jasper]

Given up? I have given it. Apparently the policy lynch is the way to go. I am beginning to wonder if the real scum (starting to have doubts about Wacky & Seven being scum) are not wanting to L-1 or hammer...

[Jasper]

And I know Nikanor has been on the site... is modding a Newbie game I was playing in.

[Jasper]

I am getting a good town read on Incog so far, though his vote on Jason is a little odd with what he has said concerning me being scum. Seems a bit odd.

Jason seems to be trying to buddy up to me, for when I do flip town.

I am getting a town reading on Zach. I think your suspicion on him stems from his D2 talk about you.

Nikanor, I am not getting that well of a read.

unvote

since I don't see Seven as scum anymore...

[Jasper]

Jasper indicates new suspicions, but prefers a broad brush over elaboration.

Which is totally anti town.

So we either have:

Town jasper, being totally anti town, and a really good policy lynch (confirmed by himself)

Or scum-jasper.. being totally anti town and a really good policy lynch (confirmed by himself).

I keep saying this whole policy lynch because

everyone else is saying it

including you, Fifi.

If you guys want to lynch the town-vig... go ahead. What's stopping you? Apparently my lynch is going to get you the most information. I just won't do it for you.

[Jasper]

I am totally not sure at the moment. I believe it is someone not voting for me. Whether it be camn, Nikanor or even Jason himself. Sure, Jason is "defending" me, but it could be because he knows he will look better when I flip town.

[Jasper]

@Jasper : The town vig? Wasn't it a one shot vig? You are vanilla now, so you being a vig is no excuse. Plus, your post seems totally forced by mine and zach's last posts.

You unvote after i question you. You repeat what i said about incog.

Thats a 0 content post, that says : I am scum, i ve given up, but i ll make a last effort..but not a big one.

If that's what you think... then fine, it is your opinion.

I agree with what you think about Incog, so that is all of a sudden a bad thing?

And yes, I took off the one-shot because... well, I used it.

And I unvoted because I said Seven wasn't seen to me as scum anymore. So why would I vote someone I think to not be scum?

Where is the fraggin logic in that?

And I haven't given up. I have (once again) given my defense, but 4 of you seem content on lynching a member of town... just to get information... instead of lynching the damned scum... so what am I to do? So go ahead and convince camn, Incog, Nika or Jas to go ahead and throw their vote on me so you can get your information.

[Jasper]

I do hope you all get your information... from my lynch.

[Jasper]

As a one-shot vig, I have no buddies.

[Jasper]

Post 672 did a lot to switch my thinking on it.

[Jasper]

Yeah, I should have claimed right away. That was my fault.

Good game though.