Mini 898: The Game (you just lost it)-OVER

[AK47x2]

/confirm

[AK47x2]

Before we start, let it be known; my first mini, and my first game of this in...about a year and a half.

[AK47x2]

Apologies for absence. I think I'm in a different time zone to the rest of you.

Agreed, this is getting silly.

Also,

Vote: Diamondilium

because he was the first one to vote without giving any sort of reasoning whatsoever, which is a bit of a pet peeve.

[AK47x2]

I'm with rewq. L-2 is too early to unvote just because scum could hammer. They never would because it would be a massive giveaway.

Also, I'm not sure what sort of scum would 'crumble' under being given a vote at a point in the game where most of the votes were being tossed around at random.

Not buying it.

[AK47x2]

What these people said. I am watching progress here keenly.

[AK47x2]

Do you still think Diamond is the best lynch? Are you standing by your previous justification for that logic (a "pet peeve")? Who else do you think is scummy?

No, I don't. Like you say, slightly random vote and then a little justification when he acted scummy at the start, but I'm happy with where that's gone.

Unvote

Suffer is slightly scummy.
Almaster is slightly scummy.
MrSuave is slightly scummy.
Torquez is very scummy.
Peabody is not scummy but holy crap is he jumpy.

Apologies for absences. Didn't mean last post in a "watching but not posting way", but in a "regularly keeping track of stuff but not posting because of time constraints". Sorry if there's any misunderstandings.

[AK47x2]

nteresting though, that he has enough time to post something like the above post,

and

apparently keep up completely with the game,

and

stay on top of things so completely that he can tell who is scummy, and to what degree.

I had time constraints. These are now gone. I have the feeling that any posts I could/would have made would have been kind of vague. I'll confess right now that I find it difficult to post unless I have something new and fresh to say, and by and large I haven't.

Telling who's scummy and to what degree only requires a reread of the thread. Like I say, I've no problems with time now so I'll be posting much more frequently.

Apologies again for lack of presence.

[AK47x2]

And as soon as I call him on it, the time constraints go away. Cue the self-loathing when he is telling the truth and flips town...

If I'm saying it just to appease you then I'd seem even scummier if I had a long period without posting.

[AK47x2]

AK, I would really like you to be posting more often. Otherwise we cannot tell your alignment. Earlier your made a list of who you thought was scummy and who was not. Can you give me some basic reasoning behind each? Which one is the most scummy?

Sure.

Suffer is slightly scummy:

His first posts seem to be jumping very quickly from one potential target to another. The whole thing about putting Almaster on L-2 was pointless because of the no way of quicklynching, and he leaps on Suave for that;

And the random person you picked happened to be at L-3? I find it hard to believe that the choice was random. It just seems like you're trying to absolve yourself of fault for putting him at L-2.

That, mixed with his earlier clash with Almaster, is what makes him seem slightly scummy.

Almaster is slightly scummy:

My first impression is "Man, he jumps about a hell of a lot as well", but I'm honestly not sure whether that's scummy or just because of D1 and he's being pragmatic. What rubs me the wrong way, and this may well be the OMGUS talking, but his abandoning of his arguments against Suffer and Suave and leaping onto me seemed rather forced.

I'd be interested in what he thinks of Torqez. All he's said in regards to him is that he posts non-sequiturs.

MrSuave is slightly scummy:

Honestly, that sums it up for him. His only fault is that he failed to elaborate on the suffer vote. And the L-2 putting, but like I said I don't think that's a scum tell.

Torquez is very scummy:

See what I said about the unelaborated suffer vote for Suave and add in a bizzare contradiction as well. The suffer post commenting on it seemed to be completely rejected by him because it contained the word dumb. Want to see more out of him before I lay a vote down.

Peabody is not scummy but holy crap is he jumpy:

I believe this speaks for itself.

The most scummy of the people above? Torquez, no doubt. If I made a list, which is a good thing to do because lists are great;

Most scummy

Torquez

MrSuave

Almaster

Suffer

Peabody

Least scummy

The list only consists of those five as of now because they were the ones I was directly asked about. Tomorrow morning I'll have a full look through everyone else and add them into there. Quick impressions on everyone else now, though;

Diamondilium

: Not scummy.

qax42

: Quietly helpful.

rewq455

: Only talks about quicklynch issue before computer issues.

SolemnJ

: Not scummy. Needs to elaborate more.

Tom

: Done nothing.

llamaeatatacop

: There's no such thing as a quick impression on this guy, way he's been posting.

[AK47x2]

It's tomorrow. Here's my list regarding everyone not mentioned yesterday; i.e. Diamond, qax, rewq, Solemn, Tom and llama.

Diamondilium

: I was suspicious of him at first because of the vote he put on Almaster for no reason. It seemed scummy at the time. Then he explained it. Bit of a strange pseudo-gambit to pull, but it seemed to pay off. I have no problems with him.

qax42

: Has made two real posts. I can't see anything scummy in either of them.

rewq455

: Literally all he says is against Diamond's plan by saying that scum would never quicklynch in such a situation. True, but he does keep on about it. Something about that worries me, but I have no idea what. He's about to be replaced also, so the replacement bears watching, needless to say.

SolemnJ

: Has made one real post. Admittedly it's quite good, but I'd still like to see a lot more out of him. I think he needs to elaborate more; in said post he lays an FoS down on Suffer with the only preceding comment as 'lol'. He also tends to say 'this is scummy', 'this is not scummy' without any reasoning.

Tom

: Nothing. All he's done is question Suffer and Suave for putting Almaster at L-2. And then not followed that up.

llamaeatatacop

: Up until the FoS on me, he's nigh untouchable in terms of scumminess. His schizophrenia is interesting, but having reread it all a couple of times, I don't think it's a scum tell. He just seems to be very pessimistic and not have much faith in his own deductive reasoning. Has unvoted on Almaster solely because of Peabody's knowledge of him on a meta level. Whether that's just practical or suspicious isn't clear yet.

Most scummy

Torquez
MrSuave
Almaster
Suffer
rewq
llama
Tom
SolemnJ
qax
Peabody
Diamondilium

Least scummy

[AK47x2]

@

AK47x2

:

Firstly, the @Town portion about scum/town lists was aimed mainly at you. Stop doing that.

Really? Seen it work in a few other games. But alright, I was just including the people I don't find scummy for the sake of completion.

Almaster is slightly scummy: My first impression is "Man, he jumps about a hell of a lot as well", but I'm honestly not sure whether that's scummy or just because of D1 and

he's being pragmatic

. What rubs me the wrong way, and

this may well be the OMGUS talking

, but his abandoning of his arguments against Suffer and Suave and leaping onto me seemed rather forced.

(emphasis mine)

Please explain the italicized parts a little more.

Regarding being pragmatic, I'm saying that I don't know whether Almaster is jumping from target to target because he's scum and trying to accuse as many people as possible of things to get attention off himself, or because it's D1 and he's just calling people on things as it happens. I'd say that in his case it's the second, because he doesn't strike me as being that scummy, or playing like that if he was.

Regarding OMGUS, my initial reaction would be that Almaster forgetting about his suspicions of Suffer and Suave and starting a wagon on me is scummy. But I don't know whether that's just because the wagon's on me, and whether I'd feel differently if the wagon had been started on anyone else.

[AK47x2]

What classifies as "work" in these other games? I would appreciate cited examples of games and specific posts if you can get the time for this, though don't let my little theory tangent get in the way of legitimate scum-hunting.

Not a problem. I was mainly thinking of my first game on this site. I brought up the idea of ranked lists because I'd seen it in a few archived newbie games (can't remember which). The IC then said it was a good idea and asked everyone to provide one. The IC was very persuasive and influential and I suppose I assumed that he knew best about this sort of thing. Maybe it's just something they teach newbies. I understand your points about why it's scummy, though, so I'll try to kick that habit.

And by work, I mean that the lists meant town won. And I felt that I was a positive influence to that game, so I guess I assumed that what worked there would work everywhere else.

In case anyone wants a look, here it is.

You're attributing

a lot

to his perceived play style. Some dubious discussion has gone on about his meta which I'm not going to touch, but in the italicized portion of your quote, I'm interested to know whether you are making a gut call or something based on analysis.

Gut call. I haven't got around to looking at the games Peabody linked to yet, and so I'm basing it just on my feelings about his play style from this game.

That's refreshingly honest and quite a surprising thing to admit. Why?

I know my own weaknesses. Whether it's real life or not, I tend to get quite edgy when people accuse me of things. I remember that from my previous games, and so I'm taking into account that my judgment's likely to be slightly clouded on this.

[AK47x2]

whaaaaat!? #2 on the most scummy list? I didn't think people thought that badly of me so soon D:

One, that's just me. And two, I don't. Imagine the list with about 50 blank lines between 1 and 2, and that would be it. Torquez is in a whole other league right now.

[AK47x2]

There are two equally logical conclusions to be made from my post: Either I was saying I knew his alignment, or I was saying that I knew that my opinion was most likely wrong.

If one of the logical conclusions to be drawn from your post is that you know my alignment, that's where something's gone wrong. At best it's bad wording. At worst it's practically a confession to being scum.

[AK47x2]

And then you totally agree. Thing is, it's completely stupid. You champion this supposed admission as proof positive that I am scum. Based on me supposedly blatantly stating this fact. In public. You are calling me scum because you think I claimed scum. This is the point where I begin to question your motives by the way, because this has crossed from ridiculous to downright suspicious.

Thing is, I don't think you're scum. You're scummy at this point, but I think that's more down to the "being a bit too candid about your assertions" bit. Saying that you're scum based on that is the same as saying "llama is an idiot".

Now that that's out of the way, There is one last thing that I need to say here. Potential Diamond/Ak scum team? The buddying is pretty hardcore.

Diamond first tries (succeeds really) to divert attention away from Ak's very convenient sudden increase in free time

, (If you think this is a really stupid scumtell, I'll explain why I think it's suspicious, but I don't want to waste time) and then proceeds to attack me for something extremely far out.

AK backs him up. If they aren't scum together, then this behavior doesn't really make sense.

They both did things of a buddying nature, even when it was not necessary. Diamond first deflects attention, AK then comes up with some quick bs and Diamond backs him on this. Now that I have (hopefully) explained why this is a stupid thing to attack someone on, I will ask you... Why are you teaming? More importantly, why are you teaming on something so silly?

Emphasis mine.

Because nobody can post suspicions of people other than me without "diverting attention away".

And who's buddying? I didn't say "Diamondilium's right, and hey look at this weird thing you just posted". I said "hey look at this weird thing you just posted". I saw something strange, and I commented on it.

I'm not sure how to respond to this because it's so strange. I said something he agreed with. When Almaster said "Hey, AK, you've barely said anything, say more", and Peabody followed up with "Hey, yeah, AK looks like a lurker, I'm voting him", was that buddying? When you said it was suspicious and you thought my absence was BS, were you buddying?

Regarding my absence; if you feel the need to post why you think it's suspicious then sure. But Almaster and Peabody have both expressed suspicion on me along the lines of "he's lurking", and that's really all you need to say to justify suspicion based on that.

[AK47x2]

My feeling on llama is that I don't like his arguments at all, but I don't think he's scum. Just because no scum ever would say what he's said and done. I know that's textbook WIFOM, but I still believe it's accurate.

I would also not be in support of a llama lynch. The scummiest in my mind is still Torquez. Who I want to hear a lot more from at this stage.

[AK47x2]

I just noticed that you've been saying that about Torqez for a while now, but you're still not voting. Is there some reason for that?

I really don't like voting for someone when they haven't had a chance to reply. And Torqez is V/LA, so I'm waiting for his response.

Regarding llama's responses; Yeah, the problem is that my reluctance to vote llama or support a lynch of him is half WIFOM and half gut. And everytime he posts he uses these weird bits of logic that just make him more suspicious and my reasons for thinking him town seem more flawed. I might be in for a big rethink at this point.

[AK47x2]

Why didn't you vote him at that time? To all appearances he was rereading the thread and about to catch up, so it seems unlikely you were simply waited because he wasn't there (since, again, he was there that day).

I'd vote for him if he comes back, offers an explaination for all his scumminess and it doesn't convince me. Worded previous thing badly; didn't mean "had a chance to reply" so much as "has replied". Stops the possibility of voting and then unvoting because his explanation makes sense.

[AK47x2]

AK: Why do you say this? My defense was logical and perfectly warranted. I would be interested to hear what 'weird little bits of logic' you think I was using. I acknowledge that what makes sense to me probably won't make sense to some other people, but in this instance I don't think I was using particularly peculiar reasoning. Also, what exactly were you saying in your first post since I left? You find me townish because no scum would do what I have done/said. What? This bit thoroughly confused me. What exactly was so stupid no scum would do it?

Are you saying that I am too scummy to actually be scum?

Emphasis mine.

Yeah, that's my basic gist here. No half-decent scum would ever say anything which could possibly be construed as a confession to being scum.

As for your odd logic, I pretty much meant the massive amounts of self doubt you had about casting suspicion on me in the first place. Seemed to me like if you were that unsure about it then you wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.

[AK47x2]

as for who I think is scum atm, I don't really have any strong negative vibes from anyone personally. if I do, I'll let ya know.

This is easily the most worrying thing you've said. We're D1, any negative vibes are useful at this point. And you really, really need to do a big analysis post very soon.

I'm starting to think that Torqez's scumminess is looking kind of small against everything else going on at the moment. Still willing to give him a bit more time before I start putting my vote elsewhere.

[AK47x2]

@Raskol; Don't have a set idea of how long I'm willing to give. But I agree that his absence seems legit, and like I say there's other things going on.

I'll say here that if it goes another day with nothing from him, I'll take the logic that my vote might as well go to use elsewhere.

[AK47x2]

Also

Mod: Peabody and llama has two votes on the list.

[/b]

[AK47x2]

That's it, I've spent more than long enough waiting on someone who's still V/LA. MrSuave's lurking, pretending not to be, not providing any decent defense on himself, or any other content at all.

vote: MrSuave

That's L-1.

[AK47x2]

I find flare scummier than Raskol. Raskol did some good scumhunting, whereas Flare's come in, bandwagoned and then accused people of being too proactive.

And blaming someone else for hammering a lynch which you were not only on, but tried to hammer on, is ridiculous.

[AK47x2]

Sorry guys, still here. More indepth stuff will be coming later, but right now my thoughts are that flare is very very scummy, and Peabody is much less so. Haven't ruled a pair out yet though.

[AK47x2]

Almaster is right. The rest of the town isn't calling you scum because of him, they're calling you scum because you're acting like scum. And I really don't like this attitude change from "Well, I've messed up and wasted D2, sorry guys" to "IF I'M GOING DOWN I'M TAKING YOU WITH ME".

Having read through, I don't think Peabody is scum.

Almaster is abrasive, but not scum. Still need to reread on Suffer.

[AK47x2]

That was a long dark night, with a nice bit of "WTF NO I HAVEN'T" in the middle.

Flare has messed this up bigtime.

Paying a visit to reread city soon.

[AK47x2]

Mass claim sounds good to me.

[AK47x2]

Just posting to say that I'm still here, and eagerly awaiting Agar.

[AK47x2]

Alright, I'm checking in and roleclaiming here. I'm a Hermit. Well, that's the mod name for it. In practice, I'm a Paranoid Gun Owner. Anyone who night-targets me has their action carried out, but dies in the process.

[AK47x2]

Llama's right. If I'm targeted by the Mafia I die, but so do they.

[AK47x2]

Llama I don't think is scum. His responses have sucked, but I don't think the original post was anything malicious. Just very badly worded.

I'm really not liking the look of Raskol right now, though.

[AK47x2]

My read on llama is as he said, a silly town. The sort of person who normally gets lynched D1 because they say something which gets hideously misinterpreted. But we've had a lot of those types, so we've still got llama around.

I would bet anything that there's scum on the lynch.

I don't like Raskol's switch from llama to lastsurvivor, though. Seems pretty contrived. But I do get his point. And since I was one of the main people on the torqez thing earlier, I'll do a read on him.

[AK47x2]

Lastsurvivor seems like the safest bet at this stage, considering we're lylo and all.