Mini 863 - Space Station Mafia: GAME OVER - EVERYONE'S DEAD

[HowardRoark]

I will be reading the thread ASAP.

[HowardRoark]

I've finished my vote chart and am re-reading the thread.

Here's an interesting comparison of the two good D1 BWs:[mrow]post[col]voter[col]hiphop[col]Messiah29[col]milkshake[col]

1

[col]048[col]Peabody[col]

2

[col]068[col]Empking[col]

3

[col]070[col]Sposh[col]3[col]

0

83[col]charlatan[col]3[col]

1

84[col]Hoopla[col]3[col]

1

94[col]milkshake[col]3[col]

1

98[col]Peabody[col]2[col]

2

123[col]Hoopla[col]2[col]

3

124[col]Sposh[col]2[col]

4

125[col]Peabody[col]2[col]

3

126[col]Empking[col]1[col]

4

128[col]milkshake[col]0[col]

5

172[col]AlmasterGM[col]0[col]

6

173[col]charlatan[col]0[col]

5

180[col]Sposh[col]

1

[col]4208[col]Peabody[col]

2

[col]4216[col]Hoopla[col]

3

[col]3236[col]CooLDoG[col]

4

[col]3237[col]Empking[col]4[col]

2

248[col]charlatan[col]

5

[col]2257[col]CooLDoG[col]

5

[col]2313[col]milkshake[col]

6

[col]1319[col]AlmasterGM[col]

7

[col]0Hoopla, Peabody, and Sposh are always on at the onset.
AlmasterGM is late onto both wagons: after they have both gone beyond the tipping point (4 votes with 7 to lynch). D2 vote on Sposh.
Empking attempted to keep the Messiah BW going by moving it back to the tipping point and avoided the later (true) hiphop BW. D2 vote has moved from Messiah to CooLDoG.
CooLDoG rode a milkshake vote for most of the day, but cast the tipping point vote on hiphop and felt the need to confirm it. D2 vote on AlmasterGM and a switch to Empking.
milkshake stayed with an RVS hiphop vote, attempted to be on the Messiah wagon early (unvote fail), but was late on the hiphop lynching wagon. D2 vote is for Messiah.

@AlmasterGM: Explain your D1 vote timing. It looks a bit opportunistic.

@Empking: Response to my notes on your D1 voting?

@CooLDoG: Why did you feel the need to emphasize your hiphop vote?

@milkshake: State your Messiah case concisely?


More to follow as I finish my second read.

[HowardRoark]

Empking attempted to

keep the Messiah BW going by moving it back to the tipping point

and avoided the later (true) hiphop BW. D2 vote has moved from Messiah to CooLDoG.

Howard, you lost me taking you seriously by acting like the first hiphop wagon was a false wagon. Also by acting like 2 votes compared to 4 is a tipping point.

Epic fail. The first hiphop wagon was two random votes and one nonrandom; there is nothing real about that. The tipping point is the wagon at half way to lynch (see the bold . . . it's about your 4th vote on Messiah not any 2 vote count).

@milkshake & AlmasterGM: Thanks for the response. I will be reviewing those posts.

@CooLDoG: You did a "confirm vote" on hiphop. Can you explain why you felt the need to do so.

I am still completing my second read. I will have more then.

[HowardRoark]

I don't mind Hoopla's idea of tidying up a bit. However, I believe a good wagon elsewhere could provide some useful information.

Based on hiphop's seemingly sincere attacks on AlmasterGM, Peabody, charlatan, Hoopla, and milkshake . . . I believe that these can be ruled out for the time being . . . that leaves Empking, CooLDoG, Messiah, NewAgeWarrior, and Sposh.

I feel that there is a decent connection to Sposh.

iso 3, 5: focused on charlatan's random vote for Sposh
iso 9-11: focused on Hoopla's gambit vote on Sposh
iso 13: coaching Sposh
iso 26: defend's Sposh's vote

vote: Sposh

[HowardRoark]

It's about his tone with each of the players. There aren't cases involved in most instances. Compare his tone toward those in the first list (especially with Hoopla and charlatan) with that toward those in the second list.

I am certainly not ruling out bussing. With Messiah being the only other prominent wagon that day, and Messiah being on my second list, how would I be ruling it out? It would have been the only bussing opportunity for hiphop.

His other votes were for AlmasterGM (random or for placing a third vote on you during RVS), Hoopla (her crazy early voting), charlatan (contradiction), and you (FoS in iso 19; OMGUS).

[HowardRoark]

@Hoopla: How do you feel about a Sposh lynch?

@Sposh: Any thoughts on the wagon forming on you? Especially my thoughts about hiphop's attitude toward various players D1.

@AlmasterGM: The pressure on you has subsided for now. Can you give us something a bit more informative please?

[HowardRoark]

Sposh's current vote is on AlmasterGM. Post 483 is all about AlmasterGM. Your next two posts . . .

I'm really torn between Empking and CooLDoG.

I don't tend to bring up new suspects unless I have a really strong suspicion. {snip} I think the best lynch for today is Messiah.

Wow. Please explain the changes; so many suspects so little stated suspicion.

@charlatan: In 436 you found Sposh a bit scummy. How would you feel about moving to vote him?

@AlmasterGM: Did you miss my 522?

I would like everyone to get off their severely ungrounded wagons on Sposh and AlMaster

Side note: There is (and was) only one vote on AlmasterGM at this time. What specifically do you find "ungrounded" about the Sposh wagon?

[HowardRoark]

request deadline implementation

Empking's 547 . . . wow.

unvote
vote Empking

I was willing to let him go another day, but that and this failing dual wagons scenario isn't working out well.

[HowardRoark]

@Empking:

Three days ago, but between my previous post and my comment post. == FAIL.

I haven't increased the number of wagons, just interchanged a player with three votes and a player with two votes. == FAIL

You've continued to prove yourself unhelpful. With the lull and people unwilling to move to Sposh, I am completely content with your lynch today instead of tomorrow.

[HowardRoark]

That doesn't change my point. It just means you're a lurker.

Your accusation: I didn't point out a post of yours for a long time. My response: I hadn't posted since before it was made. Point: me. I'm a lurker because of one three day period between posts, eh? Okay.

so I made the mistake on presuming you would lie about something so easily checkable?

Your accusation: We had 2 wagons, and my vote switch made it 3 wagons. My response: No, I just interchanged one of the 3-vote wagons and a 2-vote wagon. Point: me. I completely do not understand the presumed lie part. Can you please clarify what you mean so that I can properly respond.

I presume you're claiming scum?

What?!?!?

Is the day over??

That's it?

What? Really?

QFT

He was confused by mod post 567.

IMHO . . . That only proves that he isn't really paying attention to the game. I'm assuming that loberstermania locks the thread if it is going into night phase. He obviously isn't paying attention to the vote counts, deadline requests, etc. (Can you see why I am frustrated that we can't get additional votes on him?)

I'm really lost on Howard's sudden switch of vote to Empking. Can you please summarize your case? I missed it.

Empking attempted to keep the Messiah BW going by moving it back to the tipping point and avoided the later (true) hiphop BW.

post 489

I don't mind Hoopla's idea of tidying up a bit. However, I believe a good wagon elsewhere could provide some useful information.

Based on hiphop's seemingly sincere attacks on AlmasterGM, Peabody, charlatan, Hoopla, and milkshake . . . I believe that these can be ruled out for the time being . . . that leaves Empking, CooLDoG, Messiah, NewAgeWarrior, and Sposh.

("tidying up a bit" refers to Empking.)
The rest is on this page. It's not much of a case per se, it's more that he's a good second choice IMHO. I'd like to have a NewAgeWarrior replacement (I disliked what I saw in him), but that hasn't been fruitful.

No hard feelings meant there, lobstermania. I know how difficult it can be to find replacements.

[HowardRoark]

I don't like how Sposh has used disappearing as a tactic to get rid of the wagon on him.

I don't like how you've disappeared.

I already stated that I was trying to decide between Empking and CoolDog;

What is your decision?

[HowardRoark]

unvote
vote: Sposh

I'll have another look over CooLDoG and

NewAgeWarrior

Looker, but for now I am happy returning to Sposh.

I'm going to claim vanilla town.

So, no he didn't. That's leaves him unconfirmed.

[HowardRoark]

@AlmasterGM: One question while we wait for the mod . . . Why the hammer based on the flavorless claim?

[HowardRoark]

vote AlmasterGM

* Lurking through most of D1 (especially the Hoopla gambit).

I don't see how you can criticize me not liking Peabody and CoCo given that I've made legitimate arguments against them and they are both scummy.

Here are your comments on the two: 35, 106, 172, 174, 209. Not much in the way of "legitimate arguments" for either of them being scum.

* Gently positioning yourself on the hiphop wagon without furthering it.

I'm also extremely confused why I'm taking crap over suspecting CoCo and Peabody. CoCo still hasn't said anything of ANY relevance except "sorry for not posting" and this game has been going on for a couple of days. Peabody was previously suspicious because he voted at 3am for no reason. I'm confused as to why everyone else doesn't find these two suspicious.

During the hiphop wagon.

* Why no focus on NewAgeWarrior's lack of participation?
* I'd like you to explain your D1 and D2 hammers.

SCUM

Sposh
CoCo
Messiah
Peabody
CooLDoG
Empking
milkshake
Hoopla
NewAgeWarrior
charlatan - I am very hesitant to put this guy down here. He oozes town, but his play is so good it's almost too good. Be careful of letting him run the show. He could be very, very dangerous scum.
AlmasterGM

TOWN

(With a vote on Sposh.) Why is Messiah scummier Peabody? You hadn't mentioned him. Also, NewAgeWarrior is third towniest without reason. You also claim "vanilla town" at L-2.

* You drop a lot of AtE in your posts.

I'd be down with either a Cooldog or Sposh lynch at this point.

Not sure why you are picking out CooLDoG when there are three others (beside Sposh) scummier on your list.

* You are very active when you are under pressure D2, but once it subsides, you begin to disappear again.

[HowardRoark]

unvote
vote Looker

So did I.

[HowardRoark]

@Howard: Are you saying that when you got your role you received the original flavor as well?

When I replaced into this game my role PM included the flavored and standard role name.

---

At the point where I gave reasons as to why I suspected them both, I don't see why I am being indicted for this.

My point is that you didn't give any solid reasons for wanting them lynched.

First, how does this relate to my 275 that you quoted? Second, obviously the hammer isn't going to "further the wagon" … it ends it.

While you were tossing out, "Hey let's lynch Peabody because he is annoying," you were also giving us, "liking hiphop less and less." That's gently positioning . . . hammer or not.

I felt that, compared to the other lurkers, NAW had made decent contributions in the early game … so I wasn't as quick to hound him. Nobody else really focused on him either. Not seeing the tell here.

No tell, just a bit of possible linkage.

NAW: I didn't give reasons for more than half of them, so why are you singling him out?

Because you don't really interact not comment on him.

You also claim "vanilla town" at L-2.

So?

Take a look at my post 675. Answer that. Then tell me why you felt the need to claim at L-2 without being asked. (Psssst. That's generally a scum tell.)

Not sure why you are picking out CooLDoG when there are three others (beside Sposh) scummier on your list.

This is a clear misunderstanding of how a scumlist functions. It's not a vote-order, it's a general scale.

Sure, theirs room for flexibility. But when you skip over that many supposedly scummier people . . . it kinda stands out.

[HowardRoark]

Or there was some change in the way he sent out role PMs between when I replaced into the game and Looker did.

unvote

Let's see what lobstermania has to say.

[HowardRoark]

Moderation

Concerning balance: 3 goons versus 8 townies and 1 doc is not balanced.

Concerning flavor: Small flavor text is permitted in a Normal game, but should never lead to the situation we found ourselves in (thus the rules). The best way to handle the role PM change situation would have been to post the townie one in the thread.

Concerning the mod kill: I understand why it was done. I'm not certain as to how it would best be handled, but perhaps letting the lynch play out would have been cleaner.

Overall: You did well, lobstermania. You made hard decisions. You posted accurate and timely vote counts. You kept the game going. Lessons learned, head held high, get 'em next time . . .

My Play

Yeah . . . sorry guys. I hard charlatan as a town read all the way. I was willing to switch to Peabody at one point, but was distracted by others. I'll take the scolding for this one.
{insert your criticisms here}

---

Why did you make that last "doc tor" post, Hoopla?