Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

Serial, did you miss 1391? Because I did a lot of explaining in there. Particularly how I asked you why Coco/le Chat have to be scum together, why can't they be scum with someone else? I explained by saying le Chat left virtually no connections and Coco left so many you could never pick out the real ones. But you never clarified this.

The other theory is that he's town and I'm scum, in which case I built up pressure against a scummy player who a lot of people wanted to lynch until he actually voted himself, doing osmething alsmot universally regarded as scummy and at THAT MOMENT decide that I didn't want to be on the wagon and that it'd somehow totally escape notice if I unvoted and revamped my thinking.

Yes, this seems very plausible and I'm sure I've seen it happen many a time. A townie does something so scummy, that a scum uses the "too scummy to be scum" fallacy and hops off the wagon, knowing that it will continue without them, and try to earn townie cred by not being on it.

Yes, I realize I'm using the assumption of Raskol being town in order to push another point on you while my current theory is Raskol/Serial scum. I've said that it's possible that Raskol is town and you're scum, and with your unvote and epiphany of Raskol, I think you're the person we should lynch today.

Attempted derail of the Peabody wagon when it was starting to gain traction, and wasn't on the wagon when he was lynched.

I'm going off memory here, but I believe I was posting for a bit when Peabody was at L-1, and then I jumped off after others had unvoted, and he was at like L-3. So I didn't derail when it was starting to gain traction, but after it petered out.

Though the fact that Raskol is now trying to argue self voting isn't scummy in MD is almost hilarious enough to push my vote back on him. However, seems as if others are setting him straight, and unfortunately (because I would love so much to lynch Raskol), Serial is still scummier.

[charter]

Agreed Serial, these wall of texts need to stop immediately.

Response to your post.

And yes, I doubt you're going to convince me because the theory you're pushing (two of charter/Hoopla/Cyberbob) to me seems absolutely insane. I think your reasons for arriving at it are very weak.

Your argument of Raskol having no expectation of anything happening when he self voted is bogus. You unvoted him and cleared him. That's something pretty big and makes you look scummier than him.

Clearing le Chat entirely based of DDD's play is ludicrous, DDD has been in the game for half a day. This assumption alone negates your entire theory.

Your reasons for clearing mathcam and Raskol are shaky at best as well.

Clearing Vaya based on Peabody's actions... I can't even come up for a word for this. PEABODY WAS SCUM, OF COURSE WHAT HE SAID WAS TRICKERY. To act like his actions should have a specific response to them is ridiculous. I am just ignoring that bit of WIFOM, but you bit hard on it.

Anyway, condensed reply. I think you and your theory are scum.

[charter]

That's true, but that's not why Serial is clearing Vaya. He's doing it due to Peabody's last post.

[charter]

Yeah, this really isn't a big deal, his point was pretty obvious. Vaya has being roleblocked and a kill still going through and the very unlikely chance of Sens hiding behind him going for him.

This is all fine and dandy, but not why Serial was clearing him.

[charter]

Uhhh, why are you believing Peabody?

[charter]

Who's believing him? I think I just made a pretty strong case for rejecting any chance that his emotional outburst was truthful..

What if there's a three man scumteam and the other scum didn't bus Peabody? He only cursed Vaya for bussing him. I don't see why you are even considering his words seeing as how they came from scum after he was caught. The only point of them is trickery.

[charter]

Well, I see two really obvious possibilities. Vaya is scum or Vaya isn't scum. Regardless of which of these is true, Serial's reason for clearing Vaya is faulty since it assumes that Vaya is the only other scum. It's probable that there is another scum, not mentioned by Peabody for whatever reason.

Or it's possible both scum voted Peabody, he didn't notice (or the other scum is Serial who voted after the outburst) and just cursed one, or he did notice and just cursed one.

I mean, I'm just not paying the comment any attention, since I don't know if it was true, and even if it was, it might not be the whole story.

[charter]

Alright, keeping my vote on whichever of Raskol or Serial is closer to lynch.

Serial is my top suspect.
Raskol is very suspicious and a massive liability in LYLO.

unvote, vote Raskol

[charter]

I am not willing to take the chance of you playing anything like you did today in a future day. Either a scum lynch of Serial or a lynch of you gives the town the best chances for winning, I feel.

I really don't like how you try and excuse your play by saying you expected to get lynched when you replaced in. First off, it's obviously not true, seeing as how you had one vote when you replaced in. Second, there's really no way to justify a lot of your play if you are town.

[charter]

Ok. Raskol it is.

unvote, vote Raskol

I can see you shaping to come after me tomorrow, charter, you sneaky yet lovable individual

Sooooo, why are you voting Raskol now? I can see in to the future and you're just going to throw the two of charter/Hoopla/Cyberbob theory right back tomorrow if Raskol is town. It looks like you're just voting Raskol to stop people from voting you.


And Raskol, for fucks sake, do something right and don't hammer yourself if you're town.

[charter]

I don't know what you expect Raskol to do if he's town. What would you suggest?

Learn from this game and never do this again.

I still think that Serial is scum. Raskol is scummy and a possible partner. Raskol being alive in LYLO is unacceptable.

Like I said, keeping my vote on whichever is more likely to be lynched, I definitely prefer Serial, but not being picky any more.

[charter]

charter - I don't have the numbers, I clearly can't get you, hoopla or cyberbob lynched. I've tried as hard as is reasonable to get you lynched and the only result was general indifference, me being called scummy and people getting edgy about the day dragging on.

I don't know what you expect Raskol to do if he's town. What would you suggest?

Wait, so why are you voting for Raskol again? I didn't see a reason to vote Raskol. Not being able to lynch hoopla, charter, or cyberbob means you're not trying hard enough or there's nothing there. Do you think Raskol is scum even?

Serial is about to pull a fast one.

unvote

Got to get these answers before someone is lynched.

[charter]

Yeah, that was a bad dichotomy, I was trying to come up with more possibilities but didn't spend much time thinking.

However, you think Raskol is going to flip town. You're voting him. Doesn't make sense. What are your reasons for voting him? Still have addressed that.

[charter]

Ok, it seems like you're trying to lynch Raskol in order to clear yourself not to try and help the town win.

I'm really not seeing Serial as town.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to stick with a

Vote Serial

despite my earlier statement.

[charter]

Also, if I'm town after you lynch me, who would you vote tomorrow?

Hmmmm, this is a tough one. This is pretty much setting up a lynch after a mislynch which I'm not really sure would be a good idea. It would give scum a lot of info in which to base their night kill on. If you REALLY want to know, I will consider and tell you, but I think the anti town implications of people declaring who they would vote tomorrow if their lynch candidate today flips town are very great.

If you're town, I would go back to all the assumptions you've made arriving at charter/hoopla/bob and reconsider them, because I am near certain you've got some of them wrong.

[charter]

Mod: Deadline please.

Word.

Let's lynch Serial.

[charter]

Look, I know I've had fifteen changes of mind and I'm sorry, but that's mafia. But read my post above about ddd. We can't go into lylo with me and dd alive if were both town. Lynch charter, failing that lynch ddd, failing that lynch me.

Lynch you? Ok.

[charter]

Sorry.

[charter]

Erg. Should we massclaim then no lynch?

[charter]

Well, I have reason to massclaim.

[charter]

Actually, I think we should massclaim, and then discuss whether or not to no lynch, now that I think about it.

[charter]

I don't think order will really matter. Popcorn?

[charter]

When someone claims, they choose who claims next.

[charter]

I'll start.

Doctor.
Night one, protected Cyberbob. Thought he was town after Peabody flipped.
Night two, mathcam. Thought he was town. Started getting bad vibes off Cyberbob.
Night three, Socrates. Was a toss up between mathcam and Socrates. Went with Socrates because I thought he was the obvious nightkill choice as NO ONE was considering him a suspect. I have more on this, but I'll wait until after claim.

Obviously no breadcrumbs, but I fought Cathart's claim pretty hard since I didn't think he could be doc as well.

Anyhow, DDD is up next.

[charter]

I think that me and Raskol can't be scum, no?

One of Cyberbob/Socrates is scum, and it looks like one of DDD/Hoopla is scum.

I am pretty sure that we choose between Cyberbob/Socrates today. If we choose right, we should win. DDD will vig Hoopla tonight, and if Hoopla doesn't die (I'm certainly not protecting her) because DDD is scum and if he kills her, the jig is up, then we lynch DDD tomorrow.

Even if we choose wrong, if DDD is town, then he vigs the other one tonight, or if Hoopla is town, she roleblocks DDD or the one we don't lynch today and we pray.

Cyberbob, any breadcrumbs for your tracker there? Hoopla, any breadcrumbs that someone could possibly have picked out once you died? I must say, your crumbs look like you just made them up.

I'm pretty sure I know who the scum is just by these claims, but I'll wait until Socrates comes back and my breadcrumb questions is answered.

[charter]

Oh wait, there might be a roleblocker. My plan up there might need some reworking. I'll get on that.

[charter]

meh, simulpost.

Night three, Socrates. Was a toss up between mathcam and Socrates. Went with Socrates because I thought he was the obvious nightkill choice as NO ONE was considering him a suspect. I have more on this, but I'll wait until after claim.

While you're on, would you mind going ahead with this?

I wish I wrote it down, cause I don't remember now. I think it was something to do with wondering if mathcam was targeted for a kill night two as well. When Sens died, and I realized what a coward was, I immediately thought mathcam was town (since I was relatively sure there couldn't be more than two doctors, but it seems I am mistaken). I believe I proposed some other reasons for having just one kill that night. I think I gave a vague other power roles suggestion, not wanting to suggest that there could be another doc (as that would point straight to me) and I thought I was probably the only power role left alive at that point (again, mistaken big time).

I've never breadcrumbed before - how exactly do my breadcrumbs look like they've just been made up?

Because if you were to have died, no one would ever have been able to find those. So, it seems like you could have planted them to bolster a claim later, since no one would ever notice and call you out on them. Not saying this is what you did, just a possibility.

DDD, why did you kill mathcam after you saw Serial flip town?

Cyberbob, you got some reasons for why you tracked who you did?

Hoopla, why vig DDD?

Socrates, I protected you since you were the ONLY person no one was considering scum. You seemed like the obvious NK, and you might have been if DDD is town.

Well, I think everyone should say what role they had last game, though it's probably too late now for this to be of any use. Like I said before, I was doc last time, same flavor and everything.

[charter]

Yeah, no lynch isn't going to help us out any.

I have a big post coming, but first Cyberbob needs to explain why he tracked who he did.

[charter]

I am also sad that Hoopla did not say what role she was last game.

[charter]

Well, you're right, Danny. It doesn't help us at all if it goes like that. Which is exactly why it would have been best not to let anyone know how to make it not help.

I don't think that scenario would hurt terribly if it did happen---after all, from my POV it would be exactly the way it is now, except I don't have to convince charter to go my way if it comes down to the hard choice. And after all, there's always the chance scum wouldn't have thought it through thoroughly and handed me the win.

There's not much point in doing it now, though. Scratch it.

Frankly, I don't trust anyone who self votes to pick right at lylo. And scum would obviously have thought of that plan as well.

[charter]

I am also sad that Hoopla did not say what role she was last game.

Sorry - I was a cop. How is this helpful?

I want to know.

Also, I reread some, and I am about 90% sure Hoopla is scum. But must wait for Cyberbob first.

[charter]

I am also sad that Hoopla did not say what role she was last game.

Sorry - I was a cop. How is this helpful?

I want to know.

Also, I reread some, and I am about 90% sure Hoopla is scum.

But must wait for Cyberbob first.

[charter]

Hoopla, why did you investigate Sens night one?

[charter]

Hoopla, why did you investigate Sens night one?

A few reasons. I didn't like his jump on the Peabody wagon - I thought if anyone was bussing, it would probably have been his vote. He was the one that put him at L-1. Second was the way he buttered up toward me at the end of D1, every time I've played with him as town we always get into petty fights, so I found it kind of odd. And third, because I find him hard to read.

Interesting. Is there any reason you didn't investigate Coco or Vaya, or vig either of those two?

[charter]

Or why you repeatedly didn't vig Vaya or Coco?

[charter]

Cyberbob, role last game.

[charter]

Ok, now I just want to know why Hoopla picked Sens and then I'll post my thoughts.

[charter]

Oops, meant why not Vaya or Coco or vig one of them.

[charter]

Alright, I think it's Hoopla/Cyberbob.

I'm not buying Hoopla's claim. I don't think her day two play reflects the fact that she knew Sens was innocent. There's no breadcrumb that anyone could have figured out, and she had a giant post giving reads on everyone, but Sens wasn't mentioned, even though she proclaimed two other people as town. There is no FOS or anything on Sens, but he garnered a few votes and she kind of just danced around it. I also don't think the choice to investigate Sens was a good one.

I don't really believe Cyberbob's claim either. His claim is way too convenient, tracking the dead guy. Getting blocked. Now tracking Socrates, who I think is town. Possible he's a scum tracker, or other scum role.

I also semi believe DDD. I can't imagine he would claim to be a third doctor if he was scum. I'm actually surprised no one has brought up the fact that there are two more claimed doctors on top of the dead one. On the other hand, his choice to kill mathcam was a really poor one.

Basically, I think DDD and Socrates are more likely to be town and the roles they are claiming, than Hoopla and Cyberbob. Plus, I easily, EASILY,

EASILY

see Sens hiding behind Cyberbob and to a lesser extent Hoopla, which would explain his death. I think Cyberbob is miles ahead of le Chat in terms of who would get hidden behind.

The only thing I am wondering about, is if we should no lynch today and force Cyberbob and DDD to produce another night of results. However, I think the alternative of leaving Raskol to decide tomorrow isn't worth it.

[charter]

I don't really believe Cyberbob's claim either. His claim is way too convenient, tracking the dead guy. Getting blocked. Now tracking Socrates, who I think is town. Possible he's a scum tracker, or other scum role.

I really love it when people think a claim is "convenient" because of circumstances beyond their control.

- 50% of the players in the game are dead. It's not really fair to say "heh you just picked a dead guy to track" with odds like that.
- I don't really see how claiming a roleblock on N2 helps me.
- As far as Socrates goes, that is a completely subjective call. I'm not entirely sure why you think basing a complete dismissal of my choice to track him on something like that is good practice.

I'd like to be able to prove myself tonight, but I can tell you're not seeing that as an option. Whatever. It's a little disappointing to see the town throw this game away, but I've got exams coming up soon anyway so *shrug*

It's that you tracked someone who has already claimed their night action for that night, not that you claimed on someone who was dead, my bad. Though I reread after Cathart claimed, and it seems like you did track him, but it doesn't mean you can't be a scum tracker.

Hoopla, it's that your supposed breadcrumbs are so vague that it seems like you just found them to reinforce your claim when you made it, not so that the town could figure out what you did if you were NKed. Not breadcrumbing is fine, but yours looked faked.

Like I said, pretty sure it's Cyberbob/Hoopla, but upon reflection, forcing everyone to come up with another night of actions would be good. I also think that we shouldn't talk about any night actions for tonight anymore (to try and figure out if someone will by lying tomorrow).

vote no lynch

[charter]

Raskol, what the fuck are you talking about? Have you ever seen a cop play before? Hoopla's day two play is nothing like a cop's play.

I gave you guys the chance to no lynch, but all you want to do is yell at me, so

unvote

.

Raskol, also if you play 'which setup is more likely' you're probably going to lose, don't do that.

I really don't have anything else to say, just wait a little bit before voting Cyberbob. Let him sweat some.

[charter]

Alright then

vote Cyberbob

[charter]

Good work town, especially Danny.

Also, lulz at Serial's crackpot theory, sorry about that. Turns out it was pretty good.

I'm actually pretty surprised town won this game, but whatever, congrats.

I think you guys (Cyberbob/Hoopla) botched with the claims, had you both claimed vanilla, you would have stood a better chance of mislynching, in my opinion. Just curious, but why bus Peabody day one like that?

Thanks for modding Kublai.

[charter]

Hahah

Wow - forget no lynch or massclaim, lynch charter now please.

Doc with hot nurse? Rubbish! And comign from the scummiest player left? Rubbish!

And why was he softclaiming about WANTING to do a massclaim when he had no worthwhile information? Rubbish!

And he pushed Cathart becasue he thought the role claims clashed? Despite the fact he'd spent most of days 1 and 2 pushign for Cathart's lynch BEFORE a claim? Rubbish!

I actually said I got the same role to try and get NK'ed since I was playing so bad.

Serial, my one piece of advice to you is never unvote a selfvoter. Vote them twice as hard. When you unvoted, I immediately assumed you were scum and didn't consider an alternative.

Off to read the scum QT.

[charter]

Holy crap! Just read the scum QT. Hoopla, you are a diabolical mastermind! That was ridiculous. I've tried using codes as scum before, but it was like 'if I start a post with Ummm, it means bus'.

I wouldn't have shared that quicktopic and recycled that, or at least edited it out or something. That would be really useful in the future. Now I want to go invent some kind of code like that.