Open 168- Vengeful Mafia -={Game over}=- before 844
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Herodotus
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Herodotus Black Ops
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@Mod: when you said votes need to be large size, does that mean none of the votes so far have counted?
like:
Code: Select all
[size=18][b]large bold text[/b][/size]
I have to run, but
vote 12Keyblade
I think his claim is a fakeclaim. Obv scum.-
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Not pointless. It's a way to get around inconvenient deadlines.
I was in fact thinking about voting for Charter. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to place a second vote during the random stage in a vengeful game, though. If he's town, a scum can quickhammer. Even though that semi-outs one of the scum, the town has bad odds looking for the other one in 3 player lylo. The wiki gives the town good odds of winning if a scum is lynched day 1, and I'm not sure yet that Charter is necessarily scum.-
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I didn't want a nolynch to happen before someone said "wait, stop, that's a bad idea because we might lose the vengeful kill." (It depends on how the mod interprets the rules, which I suspect were written for games without deadlines.) It was definitely possible that a well-meaning townie or two would vote for a nolynch without considering that. Add on a scum or two who sees the advantage, and we have a nolynch without much information to derive from it. Giving up whatever reaction-seeking you were doing was a sacrifice I considered acceptable.Yes, I do mind. Seeing as you did wonder, why did you answer?
Also, why are you thinking about voting Charter?
Charter asking about the deadline within the thread twice within the space of three posts looks like it could be an attempt to seem pro-town... which would inherently deserve a page 1 semi-random vote depending on the circumstances.-
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http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 72#1848572LOL What claim?
One vote is bad this early? Why?L-2 is bad this early.
Are you suspicious of some or all of the people who have voted because of that?
That was pretty cool.Best. Mod. Ever. Prod scenes FTW!
@Mod: requesting a prod for ZazieR.-
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Herodotus Black Ops
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Herodotus Black Ops
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See post 21 for why I didn't change at the time.ZazieR wrote:Semi-random is better than a random vote. Do you agree or disagree? Why? And if you agree, why no vote change?
Which response, or to what?ZazieR wrote:
Because I wanted to see his response first.Iam wrote:Why aren't you voting for Hero?
Why are you asking about him?
Uh, why? It looks like your suspicions are based on:ZazieR wrote:
Right now, Hero.Charter wrote:Zaz, who are you most suspicious of?
1) IAUN calling me town
2) My suggestion that a nolynch might be bad
On point (1,) I can understand Charter's reason to consider it a scumtell on IAUN, as he might be buddying up to a townie. But the fact that he said it doesn't indicate anything about my alignment.
On point (2,) it may have been unlikely that more people would vote for a nolynch, but not impossible. Charter may "know the rules," but he might assume the rules allow a vengeful kill whenever the first lynch is on a townie. I think I answered this point well enough in post 24. As for not asking the mod, the rules were already there. It didn't occur to me that he do things differently. And given post 29, I don't want to ask. (I also don't think it will be an issue.)-
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Okay, let's fix it and put it in context:12Keyblade wrote:
Sorry, L-1. My bad.Herodotus wrote:
One vote is bad this early? Why?L-2 is bad this early.
Are you suspicious of some or all of the people who have voted because of that?
@Mod: requesting a prod for ZazieR.
What is your point? Just agreeing with me?12Keyblade wrote:
L-1 is bad this early.Herodotus wrote:Not pointless. It's a way to get around inconvenient deadlines.
I was in fact thinking about voting for Charter. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to place a second vote during the random stage in a vengeful game, though. If he's town, a scum can quickhammer. Even though that semi-outs one of the scum, the town has bad odds looking for the other one in 3 player lylo. The wiki gives the town good odds of winning if a scum is lynched day 1, and I'm not sure yet that Charter is necessarily scum.-
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@Zazier:
Charter's post does look like he wouldn't have joined the nolynch voting (unless he did so as opportunistic scum,) but depending on IAUN's answer, you might have, and 12KB might have. From your point of view, you may have been certain that you weren't going to vote for a nolynch, but I had no idea what you would do. Maybe if I had thoroughly analyzed your posts and/or past games, I could have logically concluded that the warning wasn't necessary. But I didn't consider that worth spending time on; I was just concerned about something that might have hurt the town.
I don't see this as something you could realistically consider a valid point against me, and as a result, your pursuit of it looks suspicious.
@IAUN:
Why aren't you voting for either of your candidates?
@12Keyblade:
If you want me to consider unvoting you, you'll have to post something better than excuses for not posting and fixes for typos.
Why, and why?charter wrote:
Actually it does, it smells of IAUN being goon and you being the GF. However, this isn't a reason to lynch you instead of IAUN.Hero wrote:On point (1,) I can understand Charter's reason to consider it a scumtell on IAUN, as he might be buddying up to a townie. But the fact that he said it doesn't indicate anything about my alignment.
It seems like Charter and Zazie both dislike IAUN for calling me town. Is that correct?-
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Herodotus Black Ops
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Well, if he's scum, it was definitely not a matter of wanting to keep me from being lynched, but of wanting to implicate me if he ever flips, or expecting me to find him townish in return. I also feel like holding what he said, on its own, as a point against him is over thinking. Accurately pointing out a townie should, on average, help the town.charter wrote:
Well, if you're GF and IAUN is goon, then he cannot have you getting lynched day one, so I can definitely see trying to head off suspicion on you. As for why it's not a reason to lynch you first, it was IAUN who made the comment so he could just be throwing our a red herring.Herodotus wrote:
Why, and why?charter wrote:
Actually it does, it smells of IAUN being goon and you being the GF. However, this isn't a reason to lynch you instead of IAUN.Hero wrote:On point (1,) I can understand Charter's reason to consider it a scumtell on IAUN, as he might be buddying up to a townie. But the fact that he said it doesn't indicate anything about my alignment.-
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Hmm... I wonder, will the win condition for the town be similarly changed, so that if neither mafia member posts for 36 hours, but all of the townies do, the town wins?The Mod wrote:Due to the terrible posting, the win conditions will be changed. On Tuesday the 15th, (THE DAY THE AMAZING AND TOTALLY AWESOME ZUNE HD COMES OUT) the win conditions will allow the mafia to win if all other players are have not posted in the 36 hour period before they are considered inactive. Only one mafia member has to be active in order to win the game. so, if all 3 trapped non-cannibals have not posted in 36 hours each, and one mafia member has, they win the game. I hope this makes it so that you all post a bit more.-
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Herodotus Black Ops
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What are you doing to try to get good reads?
I'm thinking about a 12KB/IAUN scumteam. Your post 69 looks scummy because you may have been hoping that no townies would post during the 36 hours following my post 67. Scum have a good reason to want to get in a post along with their buddy during periods when townies are inactive.-
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Herodotus wrote:
Hmm... I wonder, will the win condition for the town be similarly changed, so that if neither mafia member posts for 36 hours, but all of the townies do, the town wins?The Mod wrote:Due to the terrible posting, the win conditions will be changed. On Tuesday the 15th, (THE DAY THE AMAZING AND TOTALLY AWESOME ZUNE HD COMES OUT) the win conditions will allow the mafia to win if all other players are have not posted in the 36 hour period before they are considered inactive. Only one mafia member has to be active in order to win the game. so, if all 3 trapped non-cannibals have not posted in 36 hours each, and one mafia member has, they win the game. I hope this makes it so that you all post a bit more.@Mod - have you decided on this? Sorry, I bolded it and written "@Mod"-
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Hi, Joe. I have a request.
Would you summarize each of Zazie's positions (he's the player you're replacing) and state whether you agree or disagree with each of them?
@Charter
If you think that IAUN-GF was faking his threat/deal to hammer 12KB-goon, why did you interrupt the process? Either IAUN would hammer his goon, which is fine for the town, or he wouldn't, which would reveal that he was faking it, and make it a easier for you to convince us to lynch him. Or 12KB would start playing actively and try to hunt scum (or pretend to hunt scum.)
12Keyblade wrote:
Maybe I'm town, getting reads and working on who my venge kill will be.Herodotus wrote:If you weren't scum, you would have more to say.
Also, do you think it is better to lynch scum on day 1, or to lynch a townie who then vengeful kills scum?Herodotus wrote:What are you doing to try to get good reads?-
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@Mod
Oops, I meant to say "Sorry, I should have bolded it..."
(And I suppose the fact that it gives the town a breaking strategy is another reason not to allow it )
@Charter
Ok... I'll admit that one reason I haven't voted Zazie is because I figured if he was town, he'd more likely misvig than not.
But if we ended up in 3 player lylo, a townie who would have misvigged is about an equal liability, I think.-
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Herodotus
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Here's an idea:
There's very little chance that 12KB and Joe are both town. We could lynch one and if the lynchee is town, insist* that they vig the other.
On day 2, we have one dead scum, and one dead townie if we're unlucky. Or maybe we will be lynching the GF today, and win. But we will definitely be rid of one or both players who are trying to be anti-town.
So, we could choose randomly between the two, or decide which is scummier...
Could I get opinions on this plan *before* we try to decide which of them would be a better lynch?
@12KB: I don't mean to be insensitive to your family issues. But you've been inactive since the game started, long before your V/LA. And you have refused to let yourself be replaced.
* Not that we can control it, butcome on. It should be obvious that if one is town, the other is scum. And if the scumteam is Charter/IAUN, then they more or less deserve the win.-
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It's not the possible scumpairs that have me convinced they're not likely to both be town. It's the large degree of effort they are both putting into not posting. Why would they bothtry so hardto say absolutely nothing... as town?
Your point about a lynched townie seeing three players asking them to vig the fifth player could be valid... but I still see an approximately 60% chance of a scum lynch, and a decent chance that a lynched townie could figure it out.
@Charter:
The deadline is in the first post.
I'm hoping the point of the deadline is to spark activity, and not to punish us if we need more time.Deadline For Day 1
9/27/09 @ 4:00pm Pacific
I will extend the deadline if I see fit.-
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No. Not if you're scum (which you also didn't mention - nor would I expect you to.) If you're scum, you won't get to make a vig kill. But if you are town, then 12KB is very likely scum.
My alignment isn't relevant. It's very likely that at least one of you is scum. You can hypothesize that one of you is scum with me if you'd like, but I still want to eliminate whichever of you is scum.-
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@Mod: I unvoted shortly after Joe voted for 12KB/Empking.
Revised
I'm not feeling great right now, so this post isn't going to be very insightful.
Charter, what makes IAUN scum? Reading you in ISO, I see the following accusations (interpreted and paraphrased by me here:)
buddying
something that amounts to active lurking
post 78 looking like a GF talking to the goon
I think each of these are open to interpretation at least a little, so I'm not yet convinced.
What you call buddying could be townhunting. Knowing someone is town is almost as useful as knowing someone is scum in this setup.
As for the rest... actually he does look a little worse after a reread. But I need to do this at a better time.-
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Well, I've been pretty confident for a while that the scumpair is
one of Charter/IAUN, and
one of Empking/Joe.
With Charter confirmed (unless he's just being cool until the mod shows up to make his win official,) that means IAUN is scum. I'm still not sure about Joe and Empking, but if we lynch IAUN and he's goon, we still have two lynches.
vote iamausername-
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After some thought, I'm a little less sure about this. We'll see your flip when the mod posts it.
If you are town, IAUN, I have one request:
Don't give Empking/Joe a flawless victory. Empking is confirmed scum if you're town; shoot him. Even if I'm lynched tomorrow, I'd rather that half the scumteam have been killed. And that's setting aside the advantage of allowing Charter (as a fellow confirmed townie) a say in whether Joe or I is lynched.-
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Without a deadline, I'm not sure it would have been much of an issue. It would have taken a little longer, but once the game got going, people probably would have been more active.how else was I supossed to keep people active?
It wasn't your fault that three of the players flaked from the site. Once Joe was replaced, things might have gone smoothly.
I'd have preferred if you would have handled activity like mods usually do -- prod if necessary, then replace if necessary.
?Technically though, who won hinges on who views the game. if there was no rule, the town would have won.
I'm not sure whether Charter would necessarily ever have been lynched or vigged, even if he hadn't been "confirmed."
Who was the GF?-
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