Open 168- Vengeful Mafia -={Game over}=- before 844

[iamausername]

/confirm.

[iamausername]

Vote: No Lynch

Obviously the best move.

[iamausername]

2. If a townie is lynched

on day 1

, they get a vengeful kill. If we NoLynch, we will be in lylo on day 2 because the vengeful kill won't be available.

Had not considered this.

Maybe NoLynch becomes useful starting on day 2.

No, it's totally pointless. I just thought it would be funny to vote No Lynch in a nightless game. (and lol reactions, I guess.)

Unvote

Hero, why aren't you voting for charter?

[iamausername]

Not pointless. It's a way to get around inconvenient deadlines.

See, I was working on the assumption that when deadline hits, nothing would actually happen, because deadlines are pretty silly concept in this particular setup. But I guess we should get some clarification on this issue.

Mod: What actually happens if we hit the deadline?

Why hadn't you considered it?

I just hadn't. There wasn't any deeply thought out plan to my No Lynch vote, it was just "hey, it's a nightless setup, so wouldn't it be funny to vote for No Lynch?"

Your vote did seem serious. Links of past RVS votes?

All my past games are in my wiki, but I'm not exactly sure what you're hoping to find. Certainly, I have never voted for No Lynch on D1 before.

Why are you asking about Charter and not somebody else?

Well, I wanted to ask about someone who already had a vote, so that the L-1 factor would be involved, thus ruling out Hero. I also wanted to ask about someone who had actually posted, so that the person I was asking would actually have something to get a read on, thus ruling out Keyblade. No particular reason why I chose charter and not you.

Why aren't you voting for Hero?

Also, do you want to add something else to my question Hero answered?

Oh, sure. There's many special things about the Vengeful setup. A notable one for me is the fact that we start in lylo (with an extra shot, but still, it is possible to lose the game on D1); this means I am going against my long standing policy of maintaining a vote on someone at all times on D1.

It's also nightless, so a No Lynch vote would serve to do absolutely nothing (at least, I thought so until Hero pointed out the thing about the vengekills only working on D1), hence why I thought it would be funny to vote for No Lynch. I'm assuming that's why you asked, since you quoted my No Lynch vote.

IAUN, why do you ask Hero why he isn't voting me in the same post you unvote me?

I didn't unvote you, I unvoted No Lynch. I was never voting for you.

---

Another special thing about the setup is the fact that the ratio of scum:town in the other players is exactly 50/50, so figuring out who is town is pretty much exactly as useful as figuring out who is scum.

Hero seems town.

[iamausername]

unvote, vote IAUN

because I don't like how he's buddied up to Hero. Why is Hero town?

Gut, and pointing out the danger of my No Lynch vote was good pro-town thinking. Do you disagree with my read?

Username, due to his vote for no lynch. An experienced, competent player should know how to play vengeful mafia.

Why is it scummy? What's the scum motivation for me to pretend I don't know how to play, if that's what you're accusing me of?

I'm calling it as Keyblade/Zazie. What do you think, Hero?

[iamausername]

I'm calling it as Keyblade/Zazie. What do you think, Hero?

I'll wait and share after Zazie gets back.

Zazie's back. Do share.

unvote, vote IAUN

because I don't like how he's buddied up to Hero. Why is Hero town?

Gut, and pointing out the danger of my No Lynch vote was good pro-town thinking. Do you disagree with my read?

I'm calling it as Keyblade/Zazie. What do you think, Hero?

This is fake-scumhunting.

What makes you come to this conclusion?

[iamausername]

charter, I am assuming from your last post that you did not realise Hero was already voting Keyblade. Why not?

(I just got prodded, and I feel like I should make some attempt at content, but it's kind of difficult when charter is the only other person posting.)

[iamausername]

prodding Herodotus, 12Keyblade and iamausername.

I posted more recently than ZazieR.

[iamausername]

(I just got prodded, and I feel like I should make some attempt at content, but it's kind of difficult when charter is the only other person posting.)

This increases my unease about IAUN. I don't see what's stopping you from asking a question to someone.

I already had, and I'm still waiting for answers. And I did ask a question to you, albiet a fairly pointless one.

@IAUN:
Why aren't you voting for either of your candidates?

Well, earlier it was because I didn't think we'd had enough discussion for it to be a good idea to put someone at L-1. But I'm not sure that is the case any more, and Zazie isn't at L-2 any more, so

Vote: ZazieR

[iamausername]

Don't want to break the 36 hour mark, so here's a useless post.

Keyblade needs to post or get replaced already.

[iamausername]

Keyblade, you've been asked several questions throughout the thread, and these questions want answers.

Also, you have one post to demonstrate that you are making any attempt whatsoever to find scum, or I'm hammering.

[iamausername]

He's pretty much pleading with 12Key to do something and prevent himself from being lynched.

Yes, because if he is town, he is screwing us by not participating. What do you think I would have done as town? Just hammered Keyblade right there?

Also, it's a way of expressing fake suspicion.

Or REAL suspicion.

Second, I feel IAUN is being somewhat hypocritical, granted 12Key is without a doubt the worst offender of not scumhunting, but IAUN is my second pick with all his active lurking.

If you agree that Keyblade has contributed much less than me, how is it hypocritical for me to say that he is not contributing?

Also, what scumhunting has Zazie done?

[iamausername]

All he'd have to do is make a post worth posting and then POW, suspicion gone.

This might be a reasonable point if it had actually happened, but you're treating completely baseless speculation as fact.

Keyblade, you've been asked several questions throughout the thread, and these questions want answers.

This is still true.

Also, what scumhunting has Zazie done?

Lots.

This is clearly not true. charter/Zazie looks like a good bet too. I'm liking my vote where it is right now.

Charter-If he is scum, he is the godfather.

Interesting. What makes you think so?

[iamausername]

I've seen bogus deals before (and virtually all of them are) and this was one of them.

You can keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true.

It's not a "bogus deal", because it wasn't a "deal" at all. It was a threat, in order to motivate Keyblade to actually contribute something to the game, and I don't see how you can argue that that's not a pro-town goal. If you'd kept your vote on Keyblade, and waited for his response to my threat, then 1) Keyblade would actually have to post something worthwhile, and 2) you could see if my suspicion would evaporate based on Keyblade posting something relevant. By pre-emptively assuming that it would, you've removed the pressure on Keyblade to actually perform. I'm betting his latest contribution would have been significantly better if he was operating under the threat of a hammer.

Zaz's are filled with questions and are really obviously town.

Asking lots of questions isn't particularly helpful without any kind of follow-up. The only actual opinion Zazie has given is that Hero is scum for worrying that a No Lynch might happen, which is a completely bullshit accusation. Zazie is probably right that there wasn't any real danger of a No Lynch occuring, but Hero's worry being unnecessary doesn't in any way speak to a scum motivation on his part.

Why is 12KB not scum?

I didn't say he wasn't. "charter/Zazie looks like a good bet

too

". As in, as well as the other good bet, which is Zazie/Keyblade, as I mentioned earlier.

Are you satisfied with post 84?

Not particularly. He's still ignoring all questions directed his way, and the ?/10 for inactivity on Zazie is a cop-out; he hasn't posted a lot, but there's still

something

there to analyze.

Nonetheless, I'm less satisfied with Zazie's contribution.

[iamausername]

I don't see why, because I unvoted him, that stops you from pressuring him. Before you planned on hammering him, but after I called you out on it, you're not even voting him.

Keyblade has already shown that being at L-1 alone is not enough pressure to make him contribute, which is why I threatened to hammer him in the first place. I could vote him now, but unless you or joe have any intention of hammering, I don't believe it would actually make a difference.

Based on the activity rule for scum, and their activity levels, IAUN and Joe would appear to be pretty confident that Charter and I are not the scumteam.

Had a busy weekend, but yes, I think that is unlikely.

As long as Keyblade and Zaz/joe are not posting anything relevant, this game is going nowhere.

[iamausername]

Well, now that Keyblade is back at L-1, I guess I should threaten him with a hammer again. But given that joe has done the exact opposite of overwhelming me with his townieness, I'm not sure I particularly want to.

Keyblade, if you post again without giving useful content, I might decide to hammer, but then again, I might not. If you want to take that risk, that's your choice.

No, if you were town, you wouldn't be offering deals. Hammering,

discussing with everyone else

, really anything else.

Let me go back to this. If, instead of threatening to hammer Keyblade, I had said something along the lines of "Hey everybody, I am considering hammering Keyblade, what do you think about that?" you would consider that to be more of a town move?

What are you smoking?

[iamausername]

If you were town, and you spedhammered like that, and the person you hammered was town, who do you think they would vig?

Well done, you have successfully answered the question of why I didn't just straight up hammer Keyblade without comment (which, if you'll recall, was one of the possibilities you listed as a more likely town approach than my quote unquote deal).

You have yet to explain why "HAY EVERYONE, SHOULD I HAMMER KEYBLADE? Y/N" is more of a town approach than "Keyblade, post or perish".

There's very little chance that 12KB and Joe are both town. We could lynch one and if the lynchee is town, insist* that they vig the other.

Hero, herein lies the problem with your idea:

From your [hypotown] point of view (and from mine, and from charter's), yes, it is very unlikely that both joe and Keyblade are town. There's only one possible scumpair that doesn't include them. So, for those of us who don't die according to the plan, it's a very attractive prospect.

From the [hypotown] point of view of joe or Keyblade though, it's not particularly unlikely that both of them are town, since one of them is certainly town, and there are three people urging them to shoot the other. If you were in that situation, where would you look for two scum? The one guy you're being urged to shoot, or the three guys urging you to shoot him?

Request replacement for both 12Key and joe

this, this, a thousand times this

[iamausername]

I don't think me or charter needed prodding there; obviously we were waiting for Keyblade to get replaced, we have pretty much exhausted the amount of useful content that can be had with only 60% of the players participating.

Anyway, hopefully we can actually make some progress now that we have a player in the Keyblade slot.

Well, Joe and I can't be scum together, as it's been 36 hours since anyone but the two of us posted.
I guess lurking can cause progress.

It's not particularly useful progress though; given Zazie's ridiculous attack on you, and your attempts to get joe/Keyblade killing each other, I had that down as the least likely pairing anyway.

Does anybody want a deadline extension?

Yes. I'd also still like to know what will actually happen at deadline. Or for the deadline to be abolished entirely, because deadlines in a Vengful game are pretty much a ridiculous idea.

Charter: He seems to be posting the amount of pro-town content.
Zazie; I'm getting a big scum read from him.
Hero; Seems active and in a town manner.
IAUN; Pro-town but not overly so.

With this setup, I think it's much better to look for pairing than looking for scumminess in general. Who do you think is Zazie/joe's partner?

[iamausername]

Since I'm pretty sure we just lost, I guess I should apologise to Hero for not putting more effort into this game.

...Actually, I'm just going to pretend that stupid 36 hour rule and charter's last post don't exist and make the post I was going to make anyway. Maybe if we all believe hard enough, it'll come true!

Unvote, Vote: charter

Because Empking and joe seem far too content with each other's lynch to be scum together. If it was one or the other, godfather bussing goon would be a possibility, but goon can't bus the godfather (to the point of a lynch, anyway). Therefore charter/joe becomes the definite most likely pairing, and charter/Empking moves up to second place.

His reason for ruling you out so early seemed phony, and he hasn't considered you as possible scum since then.

I've considered it, I just don't think it's likely. My town read on Hero was weak when I first announced it, but it was stronger than any read I had on anyone else, and he's done nothing but reinforce it since.

[iamausername]

Oh, I thought you were counting from Hero's last post and gloating about how it had been four minutes since town lost.

OK, so, either the game is over or charter is town. And joe and Empking aren't scum together.

Unvote, Vote: Hero

This game is dumb.

[iamausername]

Nobody besides charter posted for 36 hours. Therefore, if charter is scum, he has already won, and none of this matters anyway.

If not, then what I said above about joe and Emp still applies. By process of elimination, you therefore have to be scum.

[iamausername]

Nope.

the win conditions will allow the mafia to win if all other players are have not posted in the 36 hour period before they are considered inactive. Only one mafia member has to be active in order to win the game. so, if all 3 trapped non-cannibals have not posted in 36 hours each, and one mafia member has, they win the game.

Not scum together:
Joe and Herodotus

I forgot this had already been cleared. OK, so it's definitely Hero and Empking. Either we lynch me and I shoot one of them, then lynch the other, or we just go ahead and lynch the godfather Hero.

[iamausername]

In my next post, I will prove beyond any reasonable doubt that I am in fact NOT the godfather.

[iamausername]

Unvote, Vote: iamausername

TA-DA!

[iamausername]

Hero, you may as well give up the pretense, because I am going to shoot you anyway.

That 36 hour rule ruined the game and this victory will not be deserved. Lesson: don't make activity rules that can confirm alignments, it is a terrible, terrible idea.

[iamausername]

If you were town, you would not have self-hammered. You don't get a vig kill.

I don't see that rule anywhere on the wiki page or in this thread. Where are you getting it from?

Also, why would I keep faking town after killing myself? Really, what would be the point?

[iamausername]

Well then, I wish I had just hammered Keyblade when I threatened to, I was definitely considering it.

What?

On day 1, neither me or Charter were going to get lynched. Then when i was vigg'd Charter would never have got lynched. Giving us the win.

Someone didn't read the rules...

Yeah, you. Check the wiki page, town doesn't autowin if the godfather is vengekilled, only if he's lynched.

This game sucked, but Keyblade and Zazie deserve blame for that as much as the mod. His attempt to solve the activity problem was poorly thought out, but it's their fault there was an activity problem in the first place.

But yeah, seconding what Hero said; prodding/replacing is how you deal with inactivity. Just that. There's a reason why it's the way that most every mod deals with it.