Open 159 - Lovers Mafia - Game over before 823

[Incognito]

/confirm

[Incognito]

You people like me. You

reeeeeeally

like me.

---

-~- I'd like to point out that the scum have the ability to daytalk.

SpyreX, your numbers are off. Town only has the ability to mislynch once. On Day 2, it's do or die since another mislynch would bring the numbers even Steven = 2 townies, 2 mafia = town loss according to the mafia win condition. What made you think otherwise?

Camn, why didn't you confirm as soon as you opened your role PM?

[Incognito]

Camn: I did. Why are you accusing me of not doing so?

Kmd: I know because we're in another game together atm, and she posted in that game after the role PMs had already been sent out here. I still don't get what you and SpyreX are saying, btw. The scum win condition says that the mafia wins when the town's numbers equal the mafia's numbers as well. So a mislynch Day 2 is a town loss.

[Incognito]

Can we start? I really wanna vote camn.

[Incognito]

How about we skip the so-called "RVS" and start voting for scum?

Someone tell me what's wrong with the following:

All roles are out, please confirm by posting in the topic.

Hmm.

I am inclined to simply lynch CTD!
It is becoming clearer and clearer that he is it.

But given the uncertainty re: me.. I am open to whatever plan....

/confirm

Essentially, camn took AT LEAST a whole 2 hours and some change just to confirm within thread.

In response to my accusation, she mentions the following:

I had to dig through all the dumb forums to find the thread cuz there wasn't a link.

For a whole 2 hours she was searching for this forum topic? Why were Haylen, Korts, SpyreX, and I able to find it so quickly, and she wasn't?

She then follows that with the following:

Why didn't YOU?

A quick, OMGUSy accusation that she threw out there without even

bothering

to check her facts. And then as soon as Kmd begins questioning me about how I knew camn took a bit to confirm, she latches on to his argument almost instantaneously in her post 21.

vote: camn

Im not feeling any romance between US either!

/sniff.

Sorry, darling, but I didn't get the

lovers

role PM.

[Incognito]

Haylen, why are you fishing for a mod-kill?

[Incognito]

camn:

Why do you seem to be throwing in the towel already? Do you really think I'm

that

certain you're scum on page 2 of the thread and, even if I AM that certain, do you really think I'd just push for your lynch right here, right now without gaining more information first?

As for the scum motivation for you not confirming, I don't know. I'm trying to be creative here. Perhaps a you hypo-scum may have read your role PM, went to the QT thread, began discussing stuff with your partner, and completely forgot to confirm until your partner

*hint hint and nudge nudged*

you to do so. I'm not even

that

concerned about that. Your reaction to all of this is feeding me with plenty of info on its own.

And bringing in this kind of out-of game shiv doesn't seem right to me.

Really? Do you think what I'm doing here is in any way equivalent to what Ether did at the start of Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd? In this post you seemed more than happy to lend support to her initial attack against me. What's the difference here? Or have your thoughts on this kind of stuff changed?

Plus.. OMGUS.. is it a scumtell? You seem to imply that it is.

If you're asking if I believe it's a

universal

scum-tell, then my answer would be I don't believe in universal scum-tells, and I try to look at each instance on its own in a subjective manner.

Your particular instance of OMGUS struck me as odd since it seemed extremely knee-jerkish to me -- you recklessly threw out an accusation towards me after apparently

agreeing with me

(I'm presuming about my /confirm post) when I made my /confirm post a minute after the mod opened the thread, and you didn't bother to check whether or not your accusation actually was based on something you could prove or not. So yeah.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

Separate post responding to other stuff as this one's getting long.

[Incognito]

I, too, would like a response to Kmd in reference to what Korts mentioned in his post 45. I noticed that also.

Kmd:

I think I know camn fairly well. I've played with her in quite a few games too, so I think I'm more than familiar with her sense of humor. However, I really don't think she was joking around there -- her follow-up post after you questioned me about her confirmation made me think she was outside of joking around.

Vote Spy

for being scum with Haylen. Not joking.

I'm curious about this vote not just because of the thing Korts pointed out in post 45, but also because I received a fairly decent pro-town vibe from SpyreX's opening posts, particularly his post 15 where he seemed to be genuinely working out a way to "break" the game for town, so I'm curious as to why you seem to be receiving an opposite vibe from him. In fact, you seemed to imply that you were following his frame of thought in your post 20. Why do you think he's scum and, more specifically, why do you think he's scum with Haylen?

[Incognito]

EBWOP: That should be "I, too, would like a response

from

Kmd" not "to".

[Incognito]

Actually, camn, I thought Ether's attack on me in that game was town-ish and not that crappy at all. I refuted her arguments calmly by showing her that she was wrong for thinking that I held up the game by not confirming right away. Didn't

you

find Ether town-ish in the beginning of that game? I could've sworn you only found her scummy when she began lurking, so I don't get why me supposedly acting the same way she was there makes you want to FoS me.

Also, why an FoS and not a vote?

-~-~-~-~

I can understand the role PM thing btw.
It's possible that you had other PMs in your inbox and simply missed the one from this game which led you to not confirm here right away.
I'm mainly looking for clues from your reaction to all of this now though as I think that's more alignment-revealing.
Have you switched to a "lucid and lyrical" writing style nowadays like good ol' Phoebus?

[Incognito]

I skimmed the last few posts. One quick question to Haylen before reading a bit more closely: without looking at Kmd's answers, what is your definition for the word 'bussing'? If you

have

looked at Kmd's answers, what

was

your working definition of the word 'bussing' before reading his answers?

[Incognito]

Okay, so reading through, I'm not too crazy about Kmd's "clearing" three people as town and assuming the scum MUST be Haylen and SpyreX. I don't necessarily find it scummy, but it does strike me as extremely premature considering the fact that we're only on Page 3 now, and he was developing these reads based on things he read on a Page 2 only. I guess the only way I find his "clearing" people to be scummy is if camn is his buddy, period -- she was the one in the limelight, she was the one under the most pressure, she was the one who may have needed a hypo-Kmd-buddy's help. By joining these three people together as "cleared town", this could serve as an attempt by a Kmd hypo-scum to "join forces" with townies and redirect attention away from her.

Not saying that I believe this to be the case, but that's my interpretation of it so far.

-~-~-~-~-~-~

Haylen's case against Kmd is somewhat silly:

1)

his mentioning of a scum QT isn't a slip. I pretty much assumed the same thing he did given the fact that the scum role PMs seem to imply so and most games have scum use QTs anyway.

2)

he didn't give any 'Haylen's actions-related' evidence to say you're scum, true, but he clearly mentioned that he arrived at this conclusion through POE (process of elimination). See my conclusions above for that.

3)

What tunneling behavior are you referring to here? Up until this page, I haven't really seen Kmd tunnel on anyone in this game.

Kmd, Incog: is this desperate reaction in character with camn?

My meta on camn suggests that she's a very emotional player regardless of her alignment. I could see her being frustrated by what seemed like a case that she felt she couldn't really defend herself properly to, but I don't think the "desperate reaction" that you pulled up in that quote is much of a tell against her either way. I'd really like to see her thoughts on the other players though.

Also, if I'm understanding your Kmd case correctly, you're suggesting that you don't think town-hunting as opposed to scum-hunting is a legitimate pro-town tactic? Or do you think his town reads don't look genuine?

[Incognito]

Haylen: I see. I think what you're describing there is actually

distancing

. Bussing usually refers to when a scum completely drives his or her partner(s) to a

lynch

. In this mechanic, bussing is suicidal and would therefore be a very stupid scum tactic lol.

Kmd said Spyrex is scum, therefore, he's bussing him.

So do you think they're scum together? Why do you say this with such certainty ("he's bussing him" as opposed to "

I think

he's bussing him")?

[Incognito]

Haylen's town. This wagon's dumb. Haylen, stop being silly and unvote. Thanks.

More later.

[Incognito]

Wait, did I ever mention my thoughts about self-voting in cr3t1n's game? Hmmm... I think I did.

All right so that might

slightly

reduce the validity of that tell (though in a game like this with Mafia Lovers, I'd only expect the ballsiest of the ballsy scums to self-vote, which still might validate the tell), but you should still unvote.

[Incognito]

Haylen:

The 'camn-wanting-to-get-mislynched' thing that she's referencing is something completely different from what you're talking about. Camn has never been mislynched, period, and we talked about that with one another since she thought that was a

bad

thing while I happened to think it was a

good

thing that she should be proud of. So yeah, I don't really get why you're confusing the two. You, unlike camn, have already been mislynched in the past at least once.

-~-~-~-~-~

I don't really get SpyreX's vote on Haylen. He's claimed to have a problem with Haylen's repeated mentioning of his name in her posts but

a)

I feel like this was largely prompted by Kmd (who happened to link the two of them together in the first place) and not Haylen, and

b)

I believe she initially referenced SpyreX in reference to meta because Spy's Wiki page has a reference to believing that meta is basically a waste of time (I happen to disagree). She was basically mentioning that despite what he says, she sees some validity in meta, and she will be looking into his games no matter what he says.

So, SpyreX, why exactly are you placing your vote on Haylen for frequently mentioning your name in her posts when this was initially prompted by Kmd? Shouldn't Kmd be the person you have beef with?

3) Actually, I think you are scum for the way you reacted to my reads.

4) I think you are scum for that reaction. I have no clue on Spy. Haven't seen enough.

When did this change happen? I thought you had her

and

Spy down as scum due to process of elimination? Now you have Haylen down as scum due to her reaction and "no clue on Spy"?

I do agree it would take some steel juevos to pull that maneuver off generally. HOWEVER, on Page 4? In a lovers game? No, not buying it.

Can you explain your thinking here? Why does the page number and the set-up type play a role in you thinking that a Haylen hypo-scum

could

do this in this game as scum and not suffer any real danger? Because I arrived at a different conclusion here.

[Incognito]

SpyreX:

fair enough.

My thinking was more along the lines of if Haylen is scum, then by self-voting, she just reduced the number of town votes necessary in order to lynch her (like you said, in this game, we basically need the entirety of the town

(

4 votes

)

to vote for scum in order for scum to be lynched). A self-voting scum would reduce this number by one to a total of 3 town votes necessary. Not to mention the fact that some people have a habit of enforcing policy lynches on people who self-vote; I don't know if any of the people in this group do so, but yeah, it's still risky behavior for scum, imo.

Haylen:

That's really damn annoying. Please stop. I thought you were learning the concept of

condensing

your posts from Ether? Oh and no, I don't really plan on bolding people's names. I do it in certain instances but not all the time.


That aside, I'm really not seeing Haylen as scum at this time. She's playing pretty much the exact same way I remember her playing in Mini 800 - cr3t1n's mafier where she was mislynched as town. Combine that with the self-vote, and the general feel I get from her posts, and yeah, I just wouldn't lend my support to her wagon. I don't necessarily agree with everything she's said up to now, but I get the feeling that

she

genuinely believes what she's saying and isn't attempting to push things for malicious purposes.

I don't think my case is very strong.. and MORE importantly.. I don't think it is

defensible

at all.. thus you need to get scummier before you earn my vote!

3) incog = ether

So 46 posts later, your case against me still amounts to what it previously amounted to in post 54. Why do you still think I'm scum, and why do you think Korts is my buddy? Also, if Korts and I are such obvious buddies, why haven't you voted for either one of us yet?

Also, you've said what you think about SpyreX, do you have any thoughts about Kmd and Haylen? It's strange that you've made almost no game-related comments about Kmd all game.

Ftr, I haven't really seen anything out of the ordinary from Korts thus far aside from the fact that he went silent as of recent, so do you also mind elaborating on what's been fishy about him?

-~-~-~-~-~

At the moment, I can definitely see the appeal for a Kmd/camn scum pairing. I

thought

I saw a minor connection between Kmd and SpyreX, but I'm not really feeling that one as much as the Kmd/camn one at this time. Common denominator appears to be Kmd.

[Incognito]

This is a good topic for you to read: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 7s_Fallacy

[Incognito]

I didn't care whether or not it was a pro-town move when I did it here. I just thought it was a good way to kick off the game and exit the RVS in a hurry by watching your reactions (especially if I actually DID catch you in something legitimately scum-motivated if you happen to be scum here) and watching the reactions of the other players in the game.

If you're asking me what I thought about it at the time Ether did it, yes, I thought it was a very pro-town move that just so happened to be coming from scum.

[Incognito]

I lost a response to camn because MS went down for me.

Camn, I didn't nail Ether on Day 1 actually;

you

did however. If you recall, the only reason why I eventually ended up thinking Ether was scum was because I was a Watcher with a positive result against her during Night 1. I thought Ether was town even when I GOT the result -- I was thinking that maybe she was some kind of Quack Doctor or something.

What is the point of this line of questioning anyway? You're like hinging onto this one single accusation I made towards you that I used to kick the game off and not even BOTHERING to comment on anything or anyone else in this game. Even I moved on from that and began focusing on yours and other people's reactions, but you just don't seem willing to. I'm beginning to wonder if this is all some kind of smokescreen attempt to keep either you or your poss-buddy out of the limelight.

I was slightly freaked out by the lack of RVS cause I've never had a a non-RVS game before. I don't understand how you can find the reactions of non RVS scummy...not sure what you're getting at there Incog. Explain please?

You don't understand how I could try to determine people's alignments by just jumping straight into the actual meat of the game and not going through some "random banter" stage? If you don't understand that, then what do you perceive the basic premise of the game of Mafia to be?

[Incognito]

unvote, vote: Kmd

L-1.

[Incognito]

I don't adapt easily. I've got nothing against it. Just didn't understand why it was skipped *shrugs*

To catch off-guard scum.

[Incognito]

Picture this (do note that I know my own alignment, so I'm discussing this from my perspective):

-~- Scum are expecting the game to play out in a certain way.
-~- A townie comes out with a half-decent case against, say, another person whose alignment is unknown.
-~- If the person whose alignment is unknown happens to be scum, then wouldn't you think he or she would be thrown off and wouldn't completely know how to react to the townie's accusations?
-~- In a game like this where the scum are so dependent on one another's survival to actually win the game (they're Mafia LOVERS after all), I'd even expect the hypothetical scum's buddy to also be sent reeling and not really knowing how to react as well.
-~- Now think about how both camn and Kmd reacted to my accusation early on and how camn has hinged on this single thing I've done without commenting on much else even in the face of a mounting Kmd-wagon.

I think that should answer your question.

[Incognito]

No, my vote isn't just based on the fact that I could see him as camn's partner (that would be silly -- a hypothetical camn-scum or any scum for that matter could easily attempt to draw a connection between himself or herself and any other townie in the game to create a mislynch opportunity). My vote is based on a lot of things:

1)

I think Haylen is town (see my previous reasoning). I know I'm town. And there's a two-person wagon on someone who I think is town. My guess is that at least one of the two people on that wagon is scum.

2)

I don't like how Kmd has steadily changed his reasoning for voting Haylen or suspecting (or even LACK of suspecting) you. He very clearly stated that a you-vote and a Haylen-vote were interchangeable since he, for the most part, couldn't see Korts, me, and camn as anything but town. He eventually changed his reasoning for voting Haylen to voting her for her reaction and changed his you-read to a null one. I'm just not buying his thought progression there.

Other things about his play are reminding me more of his scum play than his town play as well.

3)

I do want to see what camn does now that an L-1 wagon is on Kmd. I'm still baffled by the fact that she apparently thinks Korts/me are obv scum partners but hasn't voted for either one of us. Even more baffling is how Kmd, who claims to KNOW camn so well, hasn't commented on how out-of-character this is coming from camn.

I'm trying to accommodate for potential confirmation bias, but I just see a lot of things pointing to one direction and it's hard to shake at the moment. Not saying that I want Kmd lynched right this moment, but I think L-1 in Lovers games reveals more than any other vote count.

[Incognito]

Yeah... I don't get why Kmd has seemed to reserve himself to being the D1 lynch or why he now reads Korts as scum with Haylen.

Eagerly awaiting Korts' catch-up post.

[Incognito]

Korts, I'm assuming your Haylen/SpyreX partner theory has been dropped considering how fervently SpyreX has been attacking her?

Also, can you point to where specifically you felt I was acting as a mediator?

[Incognito]

That was @Korts, Kmd.

[Incognito]

Posting to avoid a prod. I'll be caught up on recent events by tonight.

[Incognito]

What. the. fuck.

[Incognito]

Elaborating on the above as best as I can:

-~- I don't get why Korts unvoted. I think camn correctly called Korts out about this, and I don't think I've seen any kind of satisfactory reply coming from Korts' direction in response to camn's calling out. I, too, noticed that Korts was content with keeping Kmd at L-1 but didn't seem to bother to comment on his alignment at all.

Good point, camn. Thanks for pointing out that Kmd is at L-1, I hadn't noticed.

This strikes me as odd. Your focused reread seemed to target a bit on me, but you somehow happened to miss the area of the thread where I decided to place Kmd at L-1? It's not like my vote was buried in a text-wall or anything like that, either. Also, what's problematic about keeping someone at L-1 in a Lover game like this?

-~- I don't really find camn's 121 to be scummy on its own; yeah, I agree that she voted Korts based on things that aren't really legitimately scum tells, but I don't think a "fishing for support" is a scummy thing to do. Going by Korts' logic, if someone did support a Korts-wagon referencing camn's case as their motivation for supporting it, wouldn't that expose opportunistic scum?

-~- I

do

find camn's 121 to be scummy in the context of everything that's going on however. I still feel like camn could be making a conscious effort to redirect attention from a Kmd-scum if they happen to be scum together. camn, who do you think is Korts' buddy? What are your thoughts on Haylen?

-~- I'm finding SpyreX to be at least mildly townish. I still have no reason to believe Haylen's scum. Korts is weird on the last page or two, but I don't see a feasible buddy for him at this time. I still think it's camn/Kmd. Vote remains.

[Incognito]

I'm really really behind. I've been insanely busy the past two days, and I ended up spraining my ankle yesterday. I hope to have a catch-up post by tomorrow, but I will again reiterate that I'm almost certain that Haylen is town and that this wagon sucks. I'm not surprised that my two scum choices in camn and Kmd are on it.

And actually, the way I see things, if I'm correct about the two town reads I have in SpyreX and Haylen, from my point of view we could lynch any of {Korts, camn, and Kmd} Today and if that doesn't win us the game, we could lynch either one of the other two Tomorrow. Again, I plan to catch up tomorrow but just getting my immediate, 'without-completely-reading-the-last-page' thoughts down.

[Incognito]

Riddle me this in detail: why is Haylen town?

I really don't think she'd put the amount of effort she has into figuring people out in this game as she has here if she were scum. I mean seriously, she went ahead and looked into your past games for meta-gaming purposes, she would've probably done similar with me and camn had she not already done so in our past game (Mini 800), and I'm guessing she did similar with Korts and Kmd. Also there was the self-voting thing that I mentioned earlier and her initial thoughts about this set-up just seem town to me; I'd expect scum to be a bit more informed about the impossibility of bussing in this game mechanic than she seemed to let on.

Yeah, I don't agree with a bunch of stuff she's said, but I think she's reacting to pressure the way town would.

Also, let's put it this way: with Haylen being at L-1, the only person who could possibly be her scum partner is Korts (since I know I'm not scum, obv). Do you believe there is a connection between them? Do you think Korts is scummy? If so, can you point out their connection and his scummy behavior?

-~-~-~-~

Haylen, what do you currently think of Korts?

[Incognito]

And yet you maintain your L-1 vote on her?

...what?

[Incognito]

unvote
vote: camn

Obvscum. The pairing

is

Kmd/camn. I'll settle for either lynch.

I am starting to think maybe I am right re: incog/korts.
BUT, I like L-1. there are no snippy newbies here to quickhammer . . .and no night-phase to hide behind. L-1 is where the rubber hits the road.

This seems extremely contrived. If the pairing was me/Korts, what's really preventing either one of us from concocting a case against Haylen and lynching her right this moment?

Also, how could you possibly agree with my statement that I believe Haylen is reacting to pressure the way town would react to pressure when your 224, 227, and now most recently your 242

all seem to be pretty obvious attacks on her reaction to said pressure?

[Incognito]

Korts seems to have absolute minimal contact with Haylen. Which could be a connection.

This I have noted also. I'll help you out with the other portion: I'm town.

At the present time, I have no read on Korts as he hasn't been very active, which could could be a scumtell but that will lead me into a whole debate of whether lurking is actually a scumtell or just anti-town.

Well, what do you think of the content he

has

put forth?

[Incognito]

Haylen, if you're considering writing a 5 million word rant again like you did in cr3t1n's game, I don't want that. You've already spent some time defending yourself against accusations here, and if you're town, I think what you really need to do now is attempt to convince people as to why the people you're

suspicious of

are scum instead of

you

being scum. You should do try to do this as concisely as you possibly can while still getting your point across. The rant doesn't do that and usually only serves to make things even more confusing.

Camn, thanks for completely ducking my true issue with your recent posts.

If the pairing was me/Korts, what's really preventing either one of us from concocting a case against Haylen and lynching her right this moment?

Actually.. I have been hoping you would.

"Hoping"?

What does the fact that I haven't suggest to you though?

[Incognito]

Hmm. Korts reacting to Haylen's L-1 in a similar manner to how I did suggests to me that if Korts is scum, he would be likely scum with Haylen and Haylen only. I don't think he'd avoid this opportunity to hammer a hypo-Haylentown especially when he previously mentioned that he could possibly see her as scum. If Haylen's town, I think both scum would have to be on the wagon already at this point.

Yeah, I don't agree with a bunch of stuff she's said, but I think she's reacting to pressure the way town would.

Also.. I agree with the above statement.

No, I do.. but it is a gradient. They aren't quite town ENOUGH.

But I don't think YOU(haylen) are actually trying to push towards clarity in this game. I think you are pushing the game towards LACK-of-clarity.. which would be of benefit only to scum.

You're walking an extremely thin line in each of the above quotes, and I simply don't like it. It seems almost as if you can't decide on whether you want to consider her scummy or town-ish.

Also, your argument about "knowing one's meta and having the ability to play to it" doesn't really hold much weight -- I'm pretty sure that you personally are aware of how you appear to others when you're town, but you simply aren't as able to do the same as scum, which is why you've previously mentioned to me that you hate being scum so much. There are plenty of other players who are also aware of certain tells and certain tendencies they have as town but they too simply aren't able to emulate their town selves either.

By making these statements though, are you acknowledging that you do find Haylen's play here similar to her play in cr3t1n's?

[Incognito]

I wouldn't mind seeing some responses from Haylen in regard to the issues SpyreX mentioned above.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

262 from camn bugs me. A lot. For a number of reasons:

1)

Like SpyreX mentioned above, I got the sense that he would have been willing to hammer Kmd when he reached L-1 earlier. From a hypo-camntown perspective, if she agrees with what I've written about a poss-Haylentown and the scum being within the three people currently voting for her, then she'd be thinking the scum is Kmd/SpyreX... but how could she possibly think that given SpyreX's actions and her own comments about BOTH SpyreX and Kmd (she's said she thinks they're both town)?

2)

It's odd to me that camn has been

simultaneously

labeling me as scum but then agreeing with so many things I have to say.

3)

In 262, camn seems all too willing to lynch a townie just to "gain information for the next Day". Perhaps I'm an overachiever, but I want to lynch scum right here, right now. No Lovers Mafia game has ever had a scum lynch on Day 1, and I think it'd be way cool to be the first.

So camn, whatcha think of Kmd's current lurking situation?

[Incognito]

Kmd and camn: I wasn't really using Kmd's recent inactivity as a point against him; I was just trying to figure out why camn, a known lurker-hunter, was making a conscious effort to ignore a "lurker". I'd have liked it if camn responded to my question before Kmd did to see if she

really

would have responded with "Kmd is V/LA, duh!" as her excuse, but what can you do?

-~-~-~-~

I hope camn's slipperyness isn't going unnoticed:

EBWOP

If Haylen's town, I think both scum would have to be on the wagon already at this point.

See.. THIS is what I am looking for.

We need a lynch today that gives us that kind of information, if they happen to flip town.
I don't know if Haylen is it or not.. but If we could be in a 5-person game with the town split in two, and both scum on one side... I sense a win.

The above is pretty obvious agreement with the quoted statement made by me. And then we get the following:

I want a lynch that

splits the scum into one group or another.

I, like I said, am unsure if Haylen is it.. but IF she IS.. I would bet the scum are in the OUT-group.

Suddenly camn claims she believes the scum would be in the

out

-group (meaning Korts and I) as opposed to SpyreX and Kmd who I'm guessing were her so-called "in-group" when she clearly agreed with my statement in 262.

I wish I was a day-vig.

[Incognito]

oh, btw,

mod:

when exactly is our deadline for Day 1?

[Incognito]

Nevermind. I found it. Reposting for convenience:

Deadline for Day 1 is Friday, August 14, 11 PM EST.

[Incognito]

unvote, vote: Kmd4390

[Incognito]

SpyreX, I think you're setting up a false dilemma with the whole "calling me out specifically in the beginning is creating a tie" thing. I see the point you're getting at, but I don't see why this would cause you so much concern -- do you really think the player group in this game would be stupid enough to assume that just because Haylen mentions your name out of nowhere, if she's scum, she's most likely scum with you? I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware that scum interactions are oftentimes less transparent than that.

Haylen, did you really think SpyreX was lurking at the time you called him out for that? Do you think he's still been lurking?

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

Camn, how's the weather been over there in Strawman City lately?

I have been nothing but clearabout my scumlist, have I not?

Neat. So why are you still voting Haylen? What's your

reasoning

for thinking that I in particular am scum? You seem to be missing that basic element, and I really think that practically everything you've said this entire game seems extraordinarily contrived, which is odd considering that when I usually play with you and I read what you have to say about people you think are scum or what-have-you, I get the sense that I could genuinely

feel

that you actually believe what you're saying. Hence the massive cause for concern about your alignment in

this

game.

[Incognito]

haha.

[Incognito]

I'm not scum so that lynch was fail-tastic.

[Incognito]

Maybe

tomorrow

I will be more critical.. but you both won me over early on!

How prophetic.

[Incognito]

Code: Select all

[color=darkblue]This gives you blue.[/color]

See?

[Incognito]

I'm leaning Kmd/camn or Kmd/Korts at the moment. I'd like to spend some time looking at interactions -- I think probably the most damning-looking thing to me was how the early wagon on Kmd eventually shifted to somehow end up on Haylen.

So I'm assuming it's either me or Camn today? Guess I can vote Camn if needed.

This seems extremely defeatist. Who do

you

think is scum?

[Incognito]

I'd like to see what camn has to say. My pairings as mentioned above are you/camn and you/Korts so if anything I'd like to lynch the common denominator.

Why do you think SpyreX is town?

[Incognito]

Spy is town because my gut says he is. I'd only vote him if absolutely needed.

You'd vote someone you think is town?

[Incognito]

But who do you prefer? Camn or Korts?

I'm pretty sure I said at this moment, I'd vote the common denominator of

Kmd

/camn and

Kmd

/Korts. That means I'd prefer

you

at this time.

[Incognito]

Anyone ever play with a SpyreX-scum? I'm WIFOM-ing myself over his 0 and 2 record as scum thinking he's likely town here for seeming to play fairly well among other things he's done in this game.

[Incognito]

I'm stunned that to two separate people, SpyreX is seen as more town than me. Or are you guys just that obvscum?

[Incognito]

Kmd, if you think camn and Korts are scum with one another, what do you think their motivation was for having you at L-1 and then moving their votes to a brand new lynching wagon?

[Incognito]

In addition to what Korts said Re: me, if camn and Kmd are scum together, they'd know they'd have a hard time convincing

me

about anything (since I've been at their necks for the entirety of Day 1 basically) and would likely figure that their best shot at buddying up would lie in buddying up to SpyreX who they might think could be coaxed into lynching Korts.

Kmd looks like lazy scum on this page. Further, I really can't see a wagon on town redirecting to another wagon on town in this particular game mechanic -- the reward for quick Days is quite high for scum to just allow an L-1 hypo-town wagon to dissipate the way Kmd's wagon did early on, which makes me feel even more like Kmd is scum. I really can't see myself voting anyone but Kmd at this point.

I want to read through SpyreX's two scum games before possibly laying down a vote.

[Incognito]

Why lazy and why specifically lazy scum?

Because the answer you gave to my question was just "idk" without any semblance of a thought process going on in your mind to try to figure out what this might mean with respect to your reads

if you were town

. If you were town, I'd have expected you to say something like "idk, maybe scum didn't want to look opportunistic" or "hm good point. I might have to re-evaluate my reads" but instead you just basically said "(shrug) vote: korts". It's both lazy and scummy therefore "lazy scum". Interesting that you chose to vote Korts as opposed to camn, too.

---

Some updates:

-~- I really can't see a Korts/camn scum team. Like I mentioned before, I really don't think that team in particular would have passed up an opportunity to lynch what would be a Kmd-town earlier in the game just to distance with/bus one another (they subsequently began attacking one another and Korts in particular began voting camn and pushing her lynch, which, might I add, had the potential to reach at least L-1 since I voted camn, and Haylen would have definitely voted camn as well).

-~- I just finished reading SpyreX-scum's play in Xyl's Relative Chaos, and I see some glaring differences in his play here and his play there. I don't want to point out what I found because I like keeping meta in my back pocket for future use if I happen to be correct rather than exposing said meta to allow a player to change, but yeah. So SpyreX, if you're scum, well played. Your play here looked nothing like it did in Xyl's game.

I don't see any point in delaying this. I could see myself voting camn or Kmd at this point since I think they're likely the scum team, but I can also see a possible Korts/Kmd partnership that makes me want to choose the common denominator between the two. Kmd showed absolutely no concern for trying to figure out Haylen's alignment all of Day 1. He just rode her wagon for a mislynch. This isn't pro-town behavior.

Going with this:

vote: Kmd4390

[Incognito]

Kmd, I looked over your Day 1 play and while you did bring up points against Haylen, you brought those points up very very very early in the Day. Haylen was still reacting, still breathing, still doing other things over the course of the Day, which I don't think you really prodded and probed her on. When she reached L-1, you basically said "why is she still alive" after you came off of a V/LA, and you didn't really comment on other people's reactions or other things that may have happened over the course of time that you were largely absent from. Even camn herself criticized your return post and then I switched my vote from camn to you.

According to AIM, Korts has been online, I believe I saw SpyreX online earlier also, and camn just checked in too since I placed my vote. If any of those possible combinations were scum, I think they would have quick-lynched you by now. And like I said, I'm not convinced that a Korts/Kmd pairing can be ruled out, so I won't be switching my vote to camn, no.

[Incognito]

Seriously?

[Incognito]

<chat log deleted at request of Haylen> ~Slicey~


Was waiting for some kind of quick-lynch and just got back after the lynch happened at 5:35 my time. That blows.

[Incognito]

You voted me expecting a quicklynch? V__V

Well, I thought you were scum obviously but just in case, I was F5-ing like crazy to catch a pairing that I didn't expect.

[Incognito]

I don't get why camn and Kmd had Spy as obvtown and were so suspicious of me. That was weird as hell.

[Incognito]

Spy: Thanks. I thought you played well too. I was suspicious of you for pushing Haylen as hard as you did but Kmd's and camn's interactions confused the heck out of me especially when they both had you down as obvtown during LyLo. I thought they would re-evaluate that position after what happened on the Haylen lynch. I despised Korts' hammer but from my point of view, if Spy was town, then all I needed to do was vote a common denominator...

Kmd: True, you did mention you were suspicious of Korts. But why was Spy so town to you?

[Incognito]

This is all a really bad April Fools joke, right?

[Incognito]

Haylen: Yeah, I think you definitely did play much better this game. I still don't really understand why you were lynched but maybe I'm biased. Dunno.

Camn, everything I said about you this game was completely true. I think you know as well as I do that I can normally read you extremely well and you seemed so damn off here. It was frustrating.

[Incognito]

Anyhow, well played scum. I had fun with this one and thanks, Slicey, for modding.

I won't be joining anymore games in the near future, so thanks everyone for making this good. Kmd, thanks a lot for inviting me. :)

Preview edit: camn, I don't think you yourself believed in that Haylen lynch. You said "it would split the town" but never outright said you thought she was scum. I still contend that it was bad and that Haylen looked fairly obvtown here. And how could I jump on Korts just for hammering? The common denominator theory was all I could go by.

[Incognito]

I can't believe you guys lynched Haylen. It was obvious she was town when she voted for herself.

QFT. This was what I covered too back around when she self-voted, and I shoulda known better when SpyreX refused to clear her as town because of that.

@ Incog... why no more games? Just play one at a time?

School!

If my workload seems manageable, I might take on a game later in the year but not right now.