Open 159 - Lovers Mafia - Game over before 823

[Haylen]

/CONFIRMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Haylen]

I agree with Incognito.

[Haylen]

I'm tired. An have to go to work. I hate work. And so will be grumpy when I return. Please don't give me loads to read. It'll annoy me a lot more. Also, I don't appreciate having to wake up at 6am. No fully awake enough to actually be aware of what I've written here, guess I'll find out later.

[Haylen]

camn, isn't fake-quoting PM's a modkillable offense?

[Haylen]

Vote: Nachos

[Haylen]

Not fishing, just mentioning. I doubt it is modkillable because she didn't quote her own PM. I'm not really sure as I've never came across this before.

Spyrex, I don't care what you say, I'm meta-ing you.

[Haylen]

Vote Spy for being scum with Haylen. Not joking.

Meh.
May I ask what evidence you have?

Haylen, no. The role PM is public knowledge and not modkillable.

Gotcha. What if I quoted one and said it was mine though? Would that be modkillable? If not, why? If so, why?

I don't agree with OMGUS voting, it's a waste of time and a waste of a vote. Tally said it's not a scumtell though, in NG771 (which has finished).

[Haylen]

camn. Chill.

[Haylen]

No, please don't use Phoebus style. I can't read his posts, they give me a headache and now I'm going to think you are anyway because of psychology stuff. ARGH.

[Haylen]

Right, so I just spent ages writing a nice long post for you guys. Then I clicked the x on my mafia tab in firefox and the damn post has been lost. I'm not happy. I blame Spyrex. I shall explain why later.

Not happy.

[Haylen]

You thought you were closing out the QT?

That took me a while to understand what you meant there. How would you know whether a QT was being used unless you're scum?

If there is a QT, then I don't have access to it. because I'm not scum. The page I accidentally closed was Spyrex's wiki page, so I could quote what he had written about meta, which answers

And... what the hell? I dont think I've PLAYED with you before so I have no idea why you would single me out for that latter statement.

<-----that. That's why I blame him.

There's no "evidence". I'm only a vanilla townie. Are you?

Can you please explain to us how one can believe another to be scum without evidence? Sure, you say you're a vanilla townie. Hypo-town Kmd would know there are two mafia out there, and 3 more town. But he would still have to work out which two of the 5 are scum. And it's too risky to randomly flail around and point fingers saying 'you're scum, you're scum.' In fact, that's a sign of a person being scum. It also appear as though you are in the early stages of tunnelling me, which is scummy behaviour according to Tarhalindur.

Well Camn became obvtown, as did you and Incog.

May I ask when? At this stage in the game, no one is obviously town. I am beginning to think you are scum who has decided the easiest people to create a mislynch with were myself, and possibly Spyrex, although I am unsure about his alignment. It is possible that you were bussing him by voting him...

Spyrex:

What good does it do to mention what you think is a mod-killable offense if the end result wouldn't be a mod kill?

It helps clarify things, so I don't make a mistake in a future game. I'm trying to improve here and I think as an experienced player, you should respect my attempts at improving my play.

And... what the hell? I dont think I've PLAYED with you before so I have no idea why you would single me out for that latter statement.

I answered this already, but I'll answer it again. First place I look when meta-ing people: Wikipage, it either a) gives information on the playstyle of the player, or b) gives a list of games they've played. I was refering to your General Mafia Thoughts, point 1, where you express your contempt for meta. That is the tab I thought I was closing, but closed my ms tab instead.

-------

So:
Because he appears to know there is a QT, which is a slip in my eyes; because he gives no evidence for suggesting I'm scum but says I am anyway; and because of the earlier tunneling behaviour. I am going to:

Unvote
Vote: Kmd4360

[Haylen]

No, there are other reasons why that is OMGUS.

I assumed it based on common practice. Also, if you look at the scum PM, it says scum may daytalk "here: XXXXX". I assume the X's are a QT link.

So you don't really think I'm scum but you're voting me? That's what that says reading between the lines. If I was scum I would've already read the mafia PM, wouldn't I?

Well, I'm only a vanilla, so the most I can give is my opinions and reasons for them. I believe three players to be town for the reasons I listed earlier. That leaves you and Spy who have yet to convince me you are town.

I am convinced that you think me and Spyrex would be the easiest to lynch, which is why you're attacking me. You've attacked me more than you have him. How on earth can I convince you I'm town without having you lynch me? That's just ridiculous.

It looks like you are paranoid that I am about to get you lynched.

Go check out my games, you will see I'm always paranoid of being lynched, whether i'm town or scum. For some reason I'm more paranoid as town. Why? Cause the only person you can truly trust in these games is yourself. Town don't know they've got the wrong guy til the flip, see what I mean? No one except yourself knows your alignment, therefore, the only person you can trust is yourself. With scum, it's the same, although you're more worried about your partner betraying you. See what I'm getting at here? I am a naturally paranoid person, it says so on my wiki.

Guys, we have the scum team. Can we lynch them now?

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here. I'm not a scumteam with anyone.

And there won't be any bussing in this game. We may see distancing, but no bussing.

How come? Please explain why? Surely they are one and the same. Have you and your partner decided not to do that? Yeah, and how would you know if we were going to see distancing if you didn't already know the scums strategy?

Also, I want your opinion of Spy now.

Do I get a 'please'? I don't react well to demands.

What have you learned from my wiki?

Quite a lot actually, I'm not going to say what because that would be giving away too much information about how I think, another player once told me that no matter how helpful I am, I should never show my notes. I will say though, that I can tell much about a person and their playstyle by just reading their brief notes on the game and the rest of the stuff you've written on there. It just took a little bit of psychology to work out what I needed to know.

Did you notice the game I played with this setup before?

Lovers Mafia 139; Role: scum lover; result: Scum win. Read it already.

Process of elimination is what I have. Is something wrong with that?

Yes. Yes there is. When somebody calls another player scum, I want hard concrete evidence to prove it. Not process of elimination.

-You said earlier in the post that I was tunneling on YOU when I am voting Spy. I have two suspects 3 pages into the game. There are 2 scum in this game. Do you expect that I should have more suspects than that?

Yeah, why not? In other games it's fair to suspect more than two players when there is a two player scumteam, why not this one?

(Fix'd the username for you)

I can guarantee you I will be making that mistake all through the game. It's seriously not my fault, I'm not trying to be funny or anything. But I don't feel like discussing it any further here.

*Waits for "It's not OMGUS because there are reasons and you haven't voted yet"*

What makes you think my vote was OMGUS? I've already given my thoughts on OMGUS votes. They are ridiculous and a waste of a vote. Why would I go against my principals?

On another not, I am concerned about camn's slight panicking on page two, to the extent that I had to tell her to chill out. hmm...kmd/camn scumpair?

[Haylen]

Bussing is where scum distance from each other and do stuff so they distance each other like making cases against each other and FoSing each other, maybe even voting each other. Kmd said Spyrex is scum, therefore, he's bussing him.

[Haylen]

OMG it was post 64! The 64th posts are special, very special indeed.

*nods*

@Korts@ Um...That was my summary.

@ Kmd -

1)I was not twisting your words, I was giving my interpretation.

2) don't get what you said about distancing/bussing. Please simplify.

3) don't want you to lie about reasoning, Mafia is about town telling the truth and scum lying, it's also about psychology. I already think you're lying. There is no way you can say somebody is scum at this stage in the game especially based on elimination.

4) I still want to hear your reasoning on why me and Spyrex are scum, it appears as though you are going by insinct of who is town rather than who is scum. As for saying you list another player as a possiblity, who is that person in this game? I'm concerned about your willingness you lynch a townie, you said that in a very casual way.

5) I don't have a buddy to worry about betraying me in this game. Perhaps you do?

6) I don't think my other point is 'as weak as hell' I think it's a valid point. As for being worried, I have nothing to be worried about.

7) It wasn't an OMGUS vote. I gave me reasons for voting you, and they are legitimate ones.

Korts

I'm getting the feeling he's using his gut as an excuse not to make real efforts at scumhunting. Not to mention me bein uncomfortable with him going for town reads instead of scum reads--process of elimination is a bad way to hunt when the people you're eliminating from your list of suspects are not confirmed town by any mechanic.

The above is what I have been trying to say but worded in a better way.

Incognito

1) Of course you don't find Kmd's saying me and Spyrex MUST be scum, scummy. He isn't accusing you, is he. Therefore, if you are not scum, then he can't be scummy because he isn't saying a town player is scum. If you're scum with him, however, you wouldn't admit to finding it scummy because you don't want your lover lynched.

2) My case isn't silly, I believe everything I wrote in there to be true.

3) I didn't say tunnelling, I said early tunnelling. Now, of course, he has said he's going to convince everyone I'm scum, it can't be seen as tunnelling can it.

4) It was hypothetical, I thought I made that clear.

And actually, the easiest lynches for me to push would probably be, yes, you

My brain interprets this as a slip. Guess who's lynch you've decided to push for?

And yeah, I may be inexperienced but I'm going to give it my all here. I refuse to rest until the scum in this game are dead, and you can't stop me doing that. Cause everytime you make some twist of my words to convince everyone I'm scum, I'm going to come back and push it down. I am going to prove that I'm just as good as any of you.

BTW why would town need to CONVINCE anybody someone is scum? Obviously, they could try and build a case themselves. Scum convince town someone is scum, town don't convince town. And that to me, is a scumslip.

[Haylen]

Camn

Nacho's are the best. You will notice that recently, I have been doing joke votes as a first vote, then unvoting almost immediately and placing a real vote.

There is nothing going on between myself and Spyrex. I am annoyed at him but I can't remember why at the moment, could this be what you're picking up on? Those quotes were all valid things to say. I read that he disagreed with meta, so I decided to tell him i was going to use it do matter how much he protested. Second one, I was annoyed because indirectly, it was his fault I lost my post. Third, I was saying I am unsure about his alignment. Nothing wrong with that.

My meta-ing revealed loads but I'm too tired to write it out now. Stupid 2.08am posting time...

I wasn't happy because I lost my post. It was a well thought out post too and it made me sad losing it. I was also sad because I lost that post having done many hours at work before I wrote it and work tends to make me angry. 'I'm not happy' usually refers to some type of anger or contempt, when I say it. It doesn't expressed sadness or anything, just anger and frustration.

I didn't avoid the question. I will answer it when I get a 'please'.

Kmd

1) I can. That's my interpretation. And it should be obvious what I meant.

2) Yeah? Incog said that, I'll listen to him.

3) Meh.

4)

I'm not gonna say you and Spy are scum, but so is someone else. That's impossible.

If I'm wrong, we'll come to that later.

Bolded part is where you're being casual about a townie lynch. If you dont think spyrex is scum, why did you accuse him of being scum with me?

5) Yep. (What was this in response to?) Oh yeah, if you are scum, like I believe you are, then you do. Personally, at this stage, I think it's camn.

6) Why would I be worried about that? I'm not. I'm not worried about you voting me either, because if I'm lynched, everyone will see from my flip that I am town, I had a case against you and you pushed very clearly for me lynch.

7) Of course you do, you're trying to push a crappy case against me.

You said me and Spyrex MUST be scum because of your process of elimination thing.

And some of the things you've said made me want to smash a hole in the wall next to me...My pillow sufficed as a punchbag.

But it's not tunneling because I'm trying to convince people I'm right?!?

It's tunnelling because you've decided to go after me and seemingly only me. Right now, I'm not ON anything and I am sharing because I want people to believe me and listen to me.

Pretty sure you're pushing for my lynch cause it's easy.

I don't have to convince anyone, I know my alignment. So I don't have to worry. People will realise what a mistake it was going after me eventually

As for the rest? Yeah, I'm not a good player at the moment, but I'm trying my hardest to improve. Plus, I want to prove to you all (especially Incog and camn) that I'm not an idiot, I can improve and I'm just as good as any of you.

By the way, I am warning you now, if far too many questions than a normal human being can deal with are shot at me, I will be resorting to using the quote style structure that my previous posts used.

camn, so, I think you're scum with Kmd. I'll explain why in my next post, I'm close to falling asleep at my laptop.

Damn couldn't put my image in, sucks.

Im going to bed.

[Haylen]

Reading Spyrex's wiki, it appears that he is an uptight git. His opinions clearly show how he would like a game to be played, and since he has many and those opinions are strong, I concluded that he may be quite controlling in games, liking to take the lead. I was able to deduce this, not only from his thoughts on mafia, but also his comments about the games he was in. I think that he doesn't like me commenting on things like this because he wants to be in control of who he is connected to, and at this moment, he would appreciate it if that was no one. Now if he is scum and people believe he is (falsely, might I add) connected to me, then he may get lynched and therefore lose the game for him and his scumbuddy, which is the last thing that he and his partner would want.

Please note: I have yet to read a full game of Spyrex's, I am, however, a few pages into Polygamist Mafia, I chose that one for obvious reasons, even though the Lover's role here is mafia, rather than town.

I think you and Kmd may be LOVERS because you were on of his cleared town. You reacted panicky when questioned and because he has been defending you since.

Anyway, although Incog says not to, I think the solution is to actually go ahead and GET mislynched!

Now you're both saying different and it's confusing me, cause I listen to both of you.

If you say so:

Unvote
Vote Haylen

Go for it, Scum, hammer me. Do me a favor and lynch my hammerer on Day Two, I want town to win.

[Haylen]

Unvote
Vote: Kmd

[Haylen]

Ok. Right, I before I post, I need to do this. Because apparently it's what i've been doing all along.

spyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrex
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spyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrex

See how ridiculous that is? If I wanted to create a connection between myself and spyrex it would be easy.

[Haylen]

Oh look, I just wrote about him in another post. So sue me. That's what we're supposed to be doing.

[Haylen]

I'll do it with spaces too then.



spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex 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spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex

Ok, so I did that til the word 'Spyrex' became completely meaningless. Try it, it's fun.

I'd be on the lookout.

Clearly I was talking about you, is that a threat?

[Haylen]

Soooo, I have discovered eating very large boxes of popcorn, with icecream and pepsi (not together) with make me hyper. YIPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. So, I shall try and control myself in this post.

I will also try and stop being peed off from now on.

On a completely relevent note, I just got the 64th post on the Mafia Scum facebook group! Go me! So proud...

Anyhoo...

Now I have to remember where I got up to earlier...oh, there it is...

Spyrex

, post 79

Let's have a nice little Essay writing lesson. This is how I was taught to write essays and put across my point.

- Make the point.
- Use evidence.
- Explain it.

I made the point that

Kmd

was tunnelling.
I used Tarhalindur's words as evidence. In History, you cannot write a good essay without using and stating the opinions of others.
And I explained how this related to

Kmd.

That is why I wrote about Tarhalindur's views. This is what it would look like in essay version...

Kmd's

questioning of me appears as though it is the early stages of tunnelling. His questions only appear to be directed at Haylen and he seems certain that she is scum. This amounts to tunnelling, but because we are only a few pages into the gae, it would not be deep enough to be considered full tunnelling - it is still in the early stages. Also known as Selective Scumhunting, it was said by Tarhalindur that Tunnelling is a scumtell. Tarhalindur is a well respected member of the Mafia Scum community and it is necessary to conclude that he would have the experience and knowlege to for

Haylen

, herself, to trust his word and tells when she is scumhunting, which is why she believes

Kmd's

tunnelling is a scumtell.

Out of curiousity, would that have been prefered? People tend to hate my essays. *glares around the thread*

---

But town clearing town doesn't make any sense, you shouldn't be looking out for the townie players, you should be watching for scumtells, and slips, and erratic voting and things like that.

Do you really want me to express my views on mentioning your name again? The only people I am connected to in this game are the townies, but since I don't know who they are, I don't really want to be connected to anyone. You don't want to be connected to anyone probably because you fear you will be accused of being scum and have the town lynch you, then we'll win because you are probably scum with Kmd.

I will agree that I do not talk like a townie, I know the theory almost perfectly, still a few things I get muddled here and there though. But if I don't know something, I can easily find out. The walking, however, is an entirely different kettle of fish. My playstyle is...'developing' as Ether put it. I make mistakes, I do stupid things and sometimes I just can't seem to get the hang of it. But, someone else said that's just down to lack of experience. So how you can say my actions don't coincide with that of an experienced player, i have no idea. Only completed 3 games.

I'm not playing the Newbie Card, I have much contempt for the use of the Newbie Card even in newbie games. I'm just using fact to contradict your statement. I have no wish for anyone here to treat me like a newbie, how on earth would that prove that I'm just as good as you lot? It wouldn't, it's counter-productive.

I am going to use meta. I like meta, and I think it can be worth quite a lot in games. The views on it are obviously subjective so neither can be proven. Basically, you can say what you want about it, you can threaten to build a crap case against me to get me lynched because of it, you can curse and kick and scream all you like, I'm still going to use it. It has been worth quite a lot in my others games, so I am going to continue using it within cases against people regardless of your opinion.

Hang on! Wait! You do need every member of the town to be on a single wagon in this game! Interesting, never played a 6 player before. I still believe that

Kmd

is scum, and I am going to do my best to get everyone to see what I see. That's annoying, didn't even think of how many it would take to lynch, just wanted the scum to die.

I still see that as a scumslip, even if you don't. So meh. As for mentioning you in my posts again...so sue me, I repeat.

What manouver? I self voted so the scum could hammer me and the townies could kill the scum on Day Two.

What aren't you buying? There is nothing to buy. This is a game, go up the shop if you want to buy something.

Incog,

Anyway, although Incog says not to, I think the solution is to actually go ahead and GET mislynched!

Incog

says mislynching is bad.

Camn

says it's ok to get mislynched.

Haylen

listens to both these people cause she respects them as experienced players.

Because of the conflict there,

Haylen

get's confused.


I am fully aware that I have been mislynched once in the past (only once mind you), and I'm still very pissed off about it. Everyone was stupid, I told them, but NO. No one listens to me. Jeez, just...don't EVER mention it again.

Kmd

4) Exactly, you can be wrong, everyone has faults. I hope to Lord Mith if I'm lynched, you recognise that your process of elimination is wrong and you shouldn't use it again.

7) It's crappy. It's based on process of elimination. State other reasons why you think I'm scum, then? Other than process of elimination.

Spyrex

I 'fed a connection' did I? I can't see it.

Kmd

connected us when he said we were scum together. I disconnected that when I accused him of bussing/distancing/yeahing you. As you said, any connection in this game is stupid.

Further, regardless of if Haylen didn't do this on her own I could see ANY of you three that haven't voted suggesting pulling a maneuver for just this reason.

No comprende. Rephrase or explain?

camn

Why is

Spyrex

cleared for you and why are

Korts

and

Incog

obvious scum?

---

Uh, this may seem wierd, guys, but can you please bold a players name when you start talking about them, for some reason I understand it better and take more notice.[/b]

[Haylen]

Well the bolding isn't necessary if I causes too much of a problem.

[Haylen]

So...I'm ill again, go figure.

c) I will not bold for you.

I am glad. That was my way of asking if nobody minded if I did it. Don't ask, thus is just the way of the Ruler of the World. I'll probably get bored of it by 3 or 4 posts, 8 at the most.

INCOGNITO IS ETHER? OMG! That can't be true, Ether is his pimp.

Korts is probably acting fishy cause he hasn't been very active. He mentioned a health exam on scumchat though, so I believe him with that.

[Haylen]

Code: Select all

 Haylen's Pissed-o-scale (1-10)
Currently a 3/10 

^ you want me to be between 3 and 6. 1 and 2 are apparently too jokey for mafia games, the 'spyrex spyrex spyrex' post was an 8. Pissed-o-scale...the way in which Haylen shall now convey her anger/frustration rather than being annoying. If that's ok.


Riert so...I'm sorry I was annoying, everyone can just disregard those posts, that's why I'm not allowed to post when grumpy.

Incog

I was slightly freaked out by the lack of RVS cause I've never had a a non-RVS game before. I don't understand how you can find the reactions of non RVS scummy...not sure what you're getting at there Incog. Explain please? Or leave it to end game discussion if you wish...

But, I really don't understand the Incog=Ether thing...I think I might be taking things literally again?

I don't want bolding now. It doesn't help. Just ignore that request.

camn

Kmd is in the early stages of tunnelling
Kmd can't have cleared us all this early
Kmd and Spyrex are both scummy to me.

Like you are.

I don't like you using the gamblers fallacity thing as an offense against Incog, it would be slightly more (but not much more) note worthy is he used it the otherway round ie 'I can't be scum because I can't be scum all the time' It is more likely a person will get a town role than a mafia role.

[Haylen]

I don't adapt easily. I've got nothing against it. Just didn't understand why it was skipped *shrugs*

[Haylen]

How does it catch off guard scum?

[Haylen]

4) Ketchup.

I agree.

[Haylen]

Ok, this question cannot wait any longer. It has been bugging me since cr3t1n's. And will continue bugging me til I get an answer:

camn: Why know capital 'C' for your name?

[Haylen]

Heya. I'm going to be semi V/LA until Monday. Should be able to post in the evenings, but due to the amount of games i'm in, don't be surprised if I don't manage to post here. It takes me hours to write posts. (Yes that's my problem, not anyone elses. But I'm learning my lesson.) Anyway, tomorrow, i'm working in the morning and have a very long driving lesson in the afternoon. Saturday, i'm working in the morning, then have another very long driving lesson. Sunday, I'm working in the morning, then going to see my cousins who I haven't seen for 10 yrs. Then Monday morning, I have a very long driving lesson, then my driving test (Oh dear god) and depending on the result, I might be too depressed to post in the afternoon.

But I'll post as much as I can in between! I should managed at least one post here a day.

[Haylen]

Has she elaborated on the meta-read of SpyreX? She claims to have found out "loads" but all I can find is a small reference to Polygamist.

Yer, I said I found out loads about him as a person and a player by reading just his wiki. Didn't I write that. I also see him as an organised, maybe even perfectionistic, person. I haven't got through all the games yet. As I told you.

Also, from now on, I'm going to post how I want to as no way appears to be 'right'

[Haylen]

Would you rather I wrote an entire essay, Korts? Cause I will, I've got spare time in the night to do it.

[Haylen]

I think I'm going to go V/LA for a few days, for reasons I don't want to talk about in thread. I'm doing this across the whole site, wont be posting anywhere. (might be able to manage a bit of GD if feeling better though). So sorry. I could be gone anywhere from 1 day to 3. Just depends.

[Haylen]

Spyrex. Lurking. Posting elsewhere. Much as can manage.

[Haylen]

Can. Am. Now I'm off again.

[Haylen]

Haylen: Not scum.
Haylen: V/LA
Haylen: Going now.

[Haylen]

Post 117 can wait til I feel better.

[Haylen]

You went: there can not be "confirmed" town and thus process of elimination is a poor process for finding scum.

Haylen went: Kmd is scum and is picking on SpyreX and I as easy mislynches.

Now, as I have nothing to do with Haylen you can see why the latter is an instant ding.

Further, you explained your stance whereas the other isn't. and everything else. And the overblown "defense" and now the calling me a lurker of all things.

Haylen is scum. Fo sho'

Wrong. Explained already.

Only scum are sure of alignments.

Go away now.

[Haylen]

not scum. you might be. i think you are with kmd.

[Haylen]

ok i really am going v/la now. dont expect me to answer questions til i get back. cause that's just stupid

[Haylen]

heya back, but dont expect as much as you were getting before i went v/la for a while.

what is the difference between a "terrible null case" and a vote for a "almost-nulltell"?

I don't understand this, camn.

Kmd, I think you should care which one out of me and kort's you should lynch because one of us is definately not scum. Me. And your inviting camn to lynch one of us in the way that you have kind of implies buddying or scumbuddies, which is quite interesting since I believe you to be scumbuddies. Perhaps you are hoping, if you arent scum with her, that we will decide she is scum and lynch her rather than you.

camn, why do you think I'm scum? Nothing I have done here is scummy. Or are you going to go by Kmd's process of elimination thing to? Do you think i've played here exactly as I did in the last game we played together?

[Haylen]

And if you are implying that I am somehow trying to lynch Camn by saying she is likely town, that's kind of funny.

Is it funny because you're scumbuddies with her or for another reason?

[Haylen]

Yes it does. It's called buddying.

[Haylen]

Yes it does. It's called buddying.

[Haylen]

Buddying is a scumtell. People say it is. And i mean you're trying to use it to get her lynched today, so you're here tomorrow.

[Haylen]

No. Because it's WIFOM. And so is your question.

[Haylen]

Scum buddy up with townies and end up getting the townie lynched rather than themselves.

[Haylen]

Fine, dont accept it. But it's what I believe. You can put me right if you like.

[Haylen]

Code: Select all

 Haylen's Piss-o-scale
2 out of 10
Haylen is 2 out of 10 pissed off. Prepare for a few jokes 

Bad logic and misinterpretation are specialities of mine, services I also offer include: death threats, creative writing and sarcasm.

If you don't believe me, go and read ANY of my games (except my first one, that was mainly me asking the IC questions on mechanics and wording). Ether says my recognising scumtells will get better eventually.

Haylen: 40 times in 33 posts
Camn: 21 times in 33 posts
Incog: 13 times in 33 posts
Korts: 10 times in 33 posts
Spyrex: 0 times in 33 posts
Edit: "Spy" was mentioned 23 times in 33 posts

Control+f tells me these are the number of times Kmd has mentioned a player in his posts.

Tell me, how does every mention of me in all those 40 times, as being scum, not constitute me believing he is tunnelling me?

[Haylen]

hmm...less jokey than i thought i'd be. Interesting.

[Haylen]

I expect you all to go and confirm that I'm right with the filtering now, have fun counting.

[Haylen]

Oopsie, sorry, I forgot. *pets 117*

Response to post 117
- The qualitive language is because I don't know for sure who is scum.
- That is selective scumhunting a) because I say it is and I'm right. b) because it obv is, he was focusing on me. And since there werent many pages then, I said it was early selective scumhunting, meaning he was preparing to selective scumhunt me.
- I was using Tar because I was taught the correct way to form a proper argument is to use the views of people in authority to support
- Don't get me started on the apparent 'making a connection' thing again. I have not tried to make a connection with either of us. Mentioning 2 names in a sentence does not form connections, it just makes it unnecessary to write the same thing out again with a different persons name.
- I have never played the newbie. Have no intentions of playing the newbie card and using said newbie card would defeat the whole purpose of proving myself. Idiotic point.

Even if you, yourself, didn't think up the hammer-manuever and the scum gain your partner (whom I have to assume wasn't voting for you thus in the subset of Korts, Incog, Camn) sure as hell would have thought of it.

So you're saying I'm stupid?
If I wanted to come up with a good scum tactic, I would've done it myself. But I wouldn't self vote. I didn't self vote as godfather in the Vengeful I was in and so I wouldn't self vote here if I was scum. The consequence would've affectively been the same here. I'm into self preservation.

If you want to lynch me, go for it. I hope you lynched Kmd day two though.

[Haylen]

Response to Spyrex's last post.

I have no need to distance myself from a mislynch. And I don't think lynching Kmd would be a mislynch anyway, I think he's scum and if we lynch him we win.


Please don't start it with the Maths, If you want to see my opinion on it, go read Mastins 5p Vengeful, I made my stance on it perfectly clear. And anyway, I'm saying that selective scumhunting is picking one player to focus on, why? cause no ones ever told me any different, therefore, it must be true.


The 'Appealing to Authority' as you so nicely put it, is actually something my History teacher taught me at college on how to form arguments, and I think I would rather listen to somebody who has a PhD in that sort of thing rather than you. It is not an attempt at distancing from a mislynch, at all.

How are you so sure it would be a mislynch? Only scum are ever sure of that.

I really think you are disproving your own point on the me apparently playing the newbie card. The quotes you use clearly say I don't want to be considered a newbie. But I will reiterate:

I don't think I'm a newbie anymore.
I might make some newbie mistakes.
If you still think I'm a newbie, don't you dare treat me like one. Attack me for all the mistakes I make. I want you to.

I can argue this until the cows come home.


Well, I will admit that I'm downplaying my ability. Why? Cause I'm paranoid. I was taught at a very young age to never show your whole hand. Never let anyone that could be your enemy know what you can actually do, until the time you really need it. I did this at college too, pretended to be stupid until my exams at the end, so nobody expects anything more than the minimal I can do from me. I find if I do everything to the best of my ability, people put pressure on me to do even better and it breaks me in the end. So there's not really much point in it.

The nature of my play? You're actually saying I might be good? *blink*

And I'm not pinging scum cause I'm scum (which I'm not), I'm pinging scum because your scumdar has malfunctioned.

[Haylen]

meh.

Why, may i ask?

[Haylen]

Hmm...that's L-1. Maybe scum should quickhammer?

[Haylen]

How on earth can saying nobody has told me any different be craplogic. Didn't I argue the same point about Randomlunatic in Cr3t1n's? Why did neither you nor Incog tell me then that tunnelling isn't a scumtell? For that you have just earned yourself a scumpoint.

I didn't really use appealling to authority to explain appealling to authority. This makes no sense what-so-ever, the point i'm trying to make is I'm going to write out my arguments they way i've been taught, and if that means referencing a more experienced player, i'm sure as hell going to do it.

That has everything to do with the game, he is arguing that I want everyone to treat me as a newbie when that clearly isn't true.

a) It was a metaphor!
b) I'm not playing poorly, I'm making the scum here underestimate me...which you have just completely blown, thanks.
c) Haha! You don't think I'm really paranoid? Wow. I'm one of the most paranoid players you're ever going to play here. I'm paranoid cause any two of you could be scum out to get me, it just so happens I think those scum are yourself and Kmd. Also...I have to powerrole to claim. There is no powerroles in this game. Do you expect me to be so stupid as to claim doc or something as town? Well, to be fair, I did set myself up for that in cr3t1n's...remember? When someone, I cant remember who it was, said I wouldn't be so sophisticated enough to breadcrumb a powerrole? Yeah, I lied when I said I hadn't done that.

I have no secrets here, I'm telling you what I see, think and believe.

I'm really sure that quickhammering me would not benefit the town in any way, shape or form, other than it would make my points against you and Kmd more valid on Day Two.

[Haylen]

EBWOP

Why did neither you nor Incog tell me then that tunnelling isn't a scumtell? For that you have just earned yourself a scumpoint.

You earnt the scumpoint here because since either you, nor Incog told me it wasn't a scumtell in cr3t1n's, but are now. Therefore, you are lying.

[Haylen]

a) I was scum in Cr3t1ns.... why would I want to help you?

Because it's lying about what is an actually isn't a scumtell, which isn't right. So why should I believe you here?

b) I'm not debating whether tunneling is a tell.

Tar says it is, so I agree.

c) I contend that:

i. selective scumhunting =/= picking one player to focus on
ii. JUST cause no ones ever told you any different =/= anything being true.

Well, generally, you tend to believe something is right until you're told otherwise. That's how people improve. That's the logic in what I'm saying. There is nothing illogical to it.

I TOTALLY didn't appeal to the authority of anyone. I'm just telling it how it is.

Question: If my logic is always craplogic, why was I correct about yourself and CTD's roles in cr3t1ns? Does it in fact make it craplogic if I'm right?

My logic here should be taken more note of, I've proven even if everyone else see's it as crap, it tends to be correct.

[Haylen]

Also, seem's about time I wrote a rant on why I'm actually town since I'm at L-1.

(I have 35 points this time )

[Haylen]

If somebody hammers me, who will you lynch tomorrow?

[Haylen]

It depends on their reasoning, of course.

Are you admitting knowing i'm town then?

[Haylen]

Why do you think I'm scum so badly, Spyrex?

Anyone going to comment on how obvious it is from those statistics that I'm being tunnelled? No? Thought not.

[Haylen]

@ Spyrex- These statistics, I worked out the amount of times Kmd has mentioned each of us in this game. As you can see, he's spoken about me twice as much as the rest of you and after a re-read, it appeared that each of those 40 times it was in a negative fashion. Even if every time he spoke about everyone else was in a negative way (which i know isn't true), he's still focused on me twice as much as he has the rest of you. He's been against me from the start.

Haylen's control+5 wrote:

Haylen: 40 times in 33 posts
Camn: 21 times in 33 posts
Incog: 13 times in 33 posts
Korts: 10 times in 33 posts
Spyrex: 0 times in 33 posts
Edit: "Spy" was mentioned 23 times in 33 posts

Well make a summary of why you think I'm scum then.

At the present time, I have no read on Korts as he hasn't been very active, which could could be a scumtell but that will lead me into a whole debate of whether lurking is actually a scumtell or just anti-town.

[Haylen]

Camn: I got lynched in cr3t1n's because of craplogic. I never got my butt kicked in that game, I just sucked, big difference. If i've proven nothing, what were yours and CTD's alignments in cr3t1n's? Mafia, no? I've proven all, kthanx.

You'll be waiting a while for my rant...i can't write them all in one sitting.

I'll answer incog when i return from being late for work.

[Haylen]

I agree, having interacted with Haylen extensively, that she has better abilities than she wants us to believe.

Really? what makes you say that?

And my teacher may not play mafia but she taught me how to form arguments, which are needed in mafia. Also, I thought the original problem was that I was using Tar as an example, he's a mafia player so why am I not allowed to use his ideas to help me form arguments?

I agree with you that camn's logic has been bad. And I would be happy either a kmd or camn lynch.

Camn

Of course you don't like the way I'm playing, I'm onto you and kmd. I am playing here exactly as I did in Cretin's, I am quite concerned that you can't see that considering you thought I was town for the first part of that game.

I have decided I am not going to write a really long rant like I did in cretin's because the majority of the stuff I wrote in there was silly. I need to be more responsible and play well now, if one of the newbie's i'm ICing decides to read this game and sees that as an example of how to play, then I will have failed as an IC and there will be loads of newbies thinking that's ok to do. So I now have to be sensible and play how I should've been playing from the start cause ICing is a big responsibility and I don't want to mess it up in any way possible including if they may be watching my other games to learn.

I am now going to make an attempt at writing a good analysis post.

[Haylen]

If my meta defense is null and void here, then surely yours is too.

I said I'm playing exactly the same as I did in Cretins

You said you suck at Day One ect and like to get information from players in every game.

How is this different?

In fact, you decribed your playstyle and then said my meta is null and void in the same post. Bit hypocritical, dont you think?

[Haylen]

Why would I push the game towards lack of clarity? that is no way for town to win? I think you've gone on the defensive because you're being accused of being scum. In cretin's you reacted the same way there when me and Random called you out on it, as you did here on the first page when told you're scum.

In your last post you managed infer that everybody except yourself and Kmd are scum. What does that mean? Scum buddies?

I am not using my meta to prove I am town. Meta shouldn't be used as a full case. And I disagree with what you said about you not using it as a defense.

Explain how I am pushing towards lack of clarity? I've stated my case on kmd and some people believe me.

Why do you think I'm scum, camn? I'd be interested to know.

[Haylen]

camn, you managed to infer everyone except for yourself and kmd were scum with this:

@ Korts: it depends on the case you concocted Smile And it depends on if you and he are scum, or if you and HER are scum, or if HE and SHE are!
You and incog could react to Haylen being at L-1 very differently, I think.... funny thing is, you have reacted the SAME.

Admittedly I did forget that Spyrex is in the game, which means he should post HERE more. But you have still infered that 3/5ths of the players in this game (with you excuded) are scum in that quote. Do you deny?

I fail to see how this goes to show how I am apparently trying to lead the town towards lack of clarity. Everything I have said can be proven. I would like to contradict your statement that nothing I say serves a basis in reality, by saying that is pure crap.

You know how to play your town meta? Then why are you reacting similarly here as when you were attacked in cretins by myself and random?

Why am I scummier than Spyrex? Why am I scummy at all?

Why are you leaving the issue? Worried you're going to say something that will add to the list of scummy things you have said?

And again with the lynches for purely informatical purposes, they will generally lack credibility here due to the fact EVERYONE needs to be on a wagon for somebody to be lynched. What if one of the scum isn't on the wagon? What happens then? This is another thing you have said that makes me believe you are scum. Tomorrow will be lylo if we mislynch and we can't risk lynching somebody for purely informatical purposes. That's just silly.

If we could be in a 5-person game with the town split in two, and both scum on one side... I sense a win.

Um, yeah, a win for the scum. We are not lynching somebody just to get information. And the scum on both sides, as you are implying, then could just confuse everybody and cause disclarity. This could also be seen as a scumslip because it may be an insight into what you and your partner are planning.

1.) The "I'm metaing SpyreX" and then repeated use of me in a connection with your fight with KMD.

misrepresentation. I explained why I mentioned that I am metaing you. And I also explained that I've never tried to make out there's a connection between us. There are very few people on the site who i'll allow it to appear we have a connection.

2.) The appeal to authority to push a case on KMD based on "tunnelling".

I was not appealing to authority. To form arguments I was taught you use the P.E.E format. Point. Example. Explain. To explain things you are supposed to use other people's ideas to support your own.

3.) The "I'm new" defense for mistakes

I've never done this[/]
---3.a) The denial of the above.

Of course I'm going to deny it if I haven't done it. And I'm not a newbie anymore.

4.) Meta as a defense for your actions via KMD.

please explain

5.) Meta as a defense for your actions via Camn.

again, please explain. I do not understand what you mean

6.) The KMD "scumslip" when in this game what he said is 120% accurate.

It really hasn't been accurate. I have explained that a lot of the things he has said is wrong. Where are you getting these statistics from? Nothing can be 120% accurate, you can have something that has been enlarged by 120% though...

7.) The self-vote early enough to allow you to slide by and gain "town cred".

The self vote was due to frustration and will never happen again. Self voting is silly.

8.) The "spyrexspyrex" explosion as an attempt to build a strawman out of what I was saying to attack.

The spyrexspyrexspyrex thing was also due to frustration. Might I suggest you actually read into things and trying to decide whether I am lying or not before you accuse me of being scum. After all, that is what scumhunting is all about. If you actually looked into it, you'd find you're wrong and I'm not scum.

9.) Your massive amount of qualitative language in regards to KMD.

That was an example of how something would be written as an essay. It was hypothetical. And I am not totally sure that he is scum, therefore I cannot say that I am.
10.) Accusing me of lurking when I posted on the same page.

*blink* you posted on the same page after I accused you of lurking. And I was more infering the fact that you had responses to questions that should be answered, and you spent ages posting in other games and reading GD/MD before posting here.

Bolded is mine.

[Haylen]

Um. None of that was appealling to emotion.

[Haylen]

At that time that is all I could say. You see, Spyrex, unfortunately when you are sharing a laptop with another person and that other person wants to use the laptop, you may find yourself in the situation where you can't answer a post fully. Find out facts before you criticise, kthanx.

1) I never mentioned camn with the meta thing because camn already knows that I like to meta. I could link you to a series of posts in Cretin's in which I used it loads if you like. And I already know what camn's wiki says. I mentioned you specifically because I was aiming a point at you, your wiki suggests very strong feelings about meta so I was putting across the point that I'm going do it whether you like it or not.

What do you mean by 'it was augmented in your arguements with Kmd'? Everything (with the exception of a few posts) I say necessarilly, I don't pull up loads of crap out of nowhere.

2) It is true. Nobody can make up P.E.E, other synonyms for it are P.E.G.E.X. which means exactly the same thing. I don't plan on looking back on Tar because I know I'm right, and I was using his standard tells to support my idea. Is it not necessary to reference where you have gotton your information?

3) Cant you post links?

post 14 - Not me using being unexperienced as an excuse to make mistakes. Somebody wanted an explanation and I gave it.

post 20 - Again, it's an explanation.

post 51 - Um...I actually said I wasn't a newbie anymore and invited you to attack me for all the mistakes I make.

Now tell me, in which of these posts did I actually use it as a defence for doing something scummy? Your point is invalid.

I dont understand your 4/5/6th points.

I disagree with you, that is not an appeal to emotion. I would show you what a real one was but I learnt my lesson with that.

My little snipe? You are really beginning to get on my nerves now. I don't snipe. Not in my nature. Look at the amount of time between those posts, and explain why you were lurking around the site.

[Haylen]

camn

I did indeed forget that Spyrex was playing. I am scatterbrained, and he hadn't posted in a while.

Keep doing what until I tighten up my game?

You say stuff like that, that has little basis in reality, with no backup at all.

Yer...maybe you didn't say that...I'm half asleep, took me ages to find your actually quite and that was after sing Cntl+F . No, the misquoting was not intentional, I just thought I could remember it without quoting it. Sorry, i shall not be so lazy next time.

[Haylen]

Spyrex

Spyrex, I start meta-ing when i first read the playerlist, before everyone gets their role PM's...that screws me over when players out for games though. Sometime's i have things I want to say when the game starts. Challenging you with this was one of those things, that's all.

Nope, I was using external support cause I was referencing where I got the information from. And I am very sure of what I am saying, if I wasn't, I wouldn't say it.

Um...I think I made it clear in those posts, I was explaining that I'm determined to show everyone I'm not an idiot. I wouldn't call that scummy, I'd call it something that needed to be said. And I've just been told I have nothing to prove to anyone...so meh...

haha...I'm all jumpy at the moment cause I'm listening to happy songs.

That was not a snipe. I was unable to write more at that time for personal reasons, I don't feel the need to explain to you. You're walking a line there, I am warning you nicely not to continue.

camn

hmm...camn is again denying that she is contradicting herself by saying I'm scum and agreeing with incog, then saying she's not sure. Hmm

Nope, but you are going to catch hell for only suggesting Kmd is scum after I called you out on it. Yay.

That really is a gem, is it not. Everything I have said can be proven.

I would support both your's and Kmd's immediate lynch.

Incog

I do believe Spyrex was lurking and still is. At that time, I would not have posted unless I deemed it absolutely necessary cause I was V/LA.

[Haylen]

You have been online and posting in other games and reading GD/MD but not posting here. I call that lurking.

One line statement because I couldn't manage anymore due to being V/LA at that point.

Nobody called me an idiot. But I feel the unnecessary need to prove myself to people and my play in my others games has been pretty idiotic. Proving something to myself, perhaps...hmm...

[Haylen]

Funny that, I was told the site automatically logs you out if you've been inactive for 30 minutes.

[Haylen]

Funny that,

I was told

the site automatically logs you out if you've been inactive for 30 minutes.

Please note the bold. I could even link you to the post where I was told that, if you like.

[Haylen]

well, get this. I'm not lying on anything.

I never said i didnt have time to post more, you're lying. I said I couldn't post anymore. Yes, I was watching all my games whilst I was V/LA. since I declared V/LA in all of my games, I dont think that was lurking.

I had time to post more than one line, but i couldnt.

It's not lurking if you had reasons.

[Haylen]

I'm a little offended that you're calling me a lurker when I had reasons. I would rather those reasons were not questioned.

[Haylen]

Ok, thank you.
You're not so bad yourself.

[Haylen]

Yep <3

Right back to business.
I think camn and Kmd are scum. Discuss.

[Haylen]

I want to spread the love in this game, and I have had absolutely no pepsi...ok i lied there. I had a bloody lot.

[Haylen]

Not good enough. Why am i probably wrong about Kmd?

[Haylen]

Grr I really hate it when people vote in the middle of a post.

Korts, kindly explain to me why my arguements against camn are bullcrap. I think they're perfectly valid.

Well, If you think my defense is worthless why dont you lynch me and lynch either kmd or camn on Day Two? It's what I'd do if i thought somebodies defense was worthless. But I beg to differ on your opinions to my defence. You are arguing a subjective point.

I did not have time to write anything else in that specific post. And I really don't think you're the right person to judge my posts when I dont have time, due to you not having time to post all week despite having time to be on scumchat.

FYI one thing I don't have is an ego. I am not egotistical people, it's the trait in people I hate most.

Why should I believe anything anyone says in these games? The only person I can trust here is myself and my own judgement. Any two of you could be scum trying to steer me wrong.

Misrepresentation? No. If that's the way you're taking it and the way Spyrex meant it, i'd say misinterpretation. To be a good mafia player, you have to learn to differentiate between the two.

[Haylen]

Oh was that the hammer?

Haha. Wrong. I have been mislynched by camn yet again. Im beginning to find this both irritating and amusing.

[Haylen]

I thought me and camn were head to head on you're scumlist, Korts. Why hammer me? You must've been pretty sure I was scum

[Haylen]

Why blue? I like that colour...how did you get it? I want to use it for when I mod...

[Haylen]

Also, Korts. I think you are very rude. Spyrex, although you are a git. I am quite fond of you for being a git.

[Haylen]

Wow...Kinda saw that coming, Spyrex being scum.

Hey, i may have been an easy mislynch, but do camn and Incog agree that i played infinately better than I did in Cr3t1n's?

I think we have learnt our lesson...until Haylen has found her playstyle, any scummy move by her means she is a townie because she is a hell of a lot more town like as scum.

Also...pampered naive ass?

Spyrex, I dont mind the mislynching thing <3 somewhere along the line in the past week, I must've realised it's just a game.

Incog, I am the April Foo! Check out my join date.

[Haylen]

hahahaha you're funny when you're irritated.

[Haylen]

hehe I dunno why either. Yeah, I believe you now Korts. It is possible that I was just wording what I was trying to say wrong...have a habit of doing that, trying to get it sorted...so when i use another players ideas, I can't use their name? I need to say its my own idea, unless using ideas that have already been posted in the game?

[Haylen]

(Naturally this applies to a mafia environment only--in an academic environment, always give credit where it is due.)

Now I get it!...not really sure why it only works here though...