Open 155 - Jungle Republic - Game Over before 816

[Hero764]

vote: falkomagno

That was easy . Who are the other four Cephrir?

[Hero764]

Well you for one, obviously. But I'm more concerned with lynching the wolves first.

I believe I asked for four names.

[Hero764]

Well if I tell you all the scum, we won't have a game left to play will we?

I'll be sure to throw in a few red herrings in my posts just to mess with you guys. Wouldn't want to do all the scumhunting for you

Then we have no choice but to lynch the names out of you.

unvote

Vote: Cephrir

[Hero764]

Guys Cephrir has information he is witholding from the town. Apply some pressure plz.

[Hero764]

I hear the mafia keeps werewolves as pets. :O

[Hero764]

-And I see a SERIOUS Hero-Flava-Cephir connection.

How can you see a serious connection over jokes(at least on my part)?

unvote

vote: Mastin

[Hero764]

You can't just base the connections on jokes though. I think its pretty obvious we weren't being serious.

[Hero764]

And we have a severe case of OMGUS once I point out the three of them as a scum team.

Actually the vote was for making a dumb case and calling it serious, but you can call it what ever you want. Doesn't make me scum.

Of course not. I see the connection between YOU and Ceph/Hero. Like this post. You say "one of (if not both) Ceph/Hero". Why the doubt?

Yea, thought so. You're scum with them, of course.

That doesn't make any sense. Explain your reasoning.

Also, since Mastin seems to think that scum can always be caught through joke posts, we need to lynch him for claiming mafia. It's much more definite of a scumtell than anything anyone else has posted.

[Hero764]

Why are early bandwagons scummy Mastin?

[Hero764]

Mastin do you HAVE to reply to every single sentence of a post?

Personal attack (calling my scum hunting "a dumb case"), not to mention, a strawman (weakening a solid case), and brushing off serious comments that need to be addressed as nothing.

And why isn't Hero dead yet?

Personal attack? Ok, what's scummy about it? Strawman? I don't see one. Your case was based on unserious posts in the RVS, it can hardly be called solid. What comments did I brush off?

Okay, I will:
You're OMGUS'ing me for getting onto the right track immediately.
Flava Flave is your partner, who is handling it better, but still is giving it away.
Cephir I haven't seen the reactions to me having nailed him; 'twill come in time.

And none of these are huge assumptions on your part? If you say no, explain how they aren't. If you say yes, why are pushing for a lynch?

Uh, yea, it does.

How?

]quote]
You're not even addressing the points.
Explaining WHY you think it's a dumb case.[/quote]Because its based on non serious comments in the RVS.

1: Defending Flava here is more proof of why you are scum with Flava.

2: Flava said that Falko was scum with one of you and Cephir, possibly both. Why the "possibly both" part? It reeks of bussing to me.

3: Doubt is a scum tell.

4: And your confusion on the matter is *also* a scum tell, by the way.

1. Because that's the only logical possibility right?
2. What? Possibly both = bussing?
3. I don't see any doubt in his comment. And how is it a scum tell(you've probably already answered this).
4. Or maybe I'm just confused.

If you know *ANYTHING* about my meta, then you would know that I
-Always self-vote in the RVS,
-Almost Always claim scum in the RVS, making it a null tell,
-And am immune to almost all (at the very least, of my own) scum tells, this amongst them.

I don't give a shit. Why should your joke posts be taken nonseriously but others should? Meta-defense is horrible by the way. You can change your meta anytime you want.

Hero, you mentioned somewhere having shown interest in my playstyle and having read up on it a bit. (Later renouncing that claim and stating the opposite, hate of it)

Shouldn't you already know this?
Of course you do. You bring up the point, hoping that I don't remember that you know about it already.
Too bad; I do. You're further caught scum by not remembering this detail.

When did I ever deny saying that? I know full well that you always claim scum, doesn't matter one bit.

We have three mafia.

And three early-on votes for Falko.

This same attitude I can see in almost every game I can think of.

-735, Chimera put Hohum at L-2.

-742, Kronos bandwagonned Data for the *exact* same reasons that Jeff voted for Kronos.

-763, Chief bandwagonned No Lynch.

There. Convinced?

Wtf? You think because some other scum players bandwagoned early on it becomes a scum tell? I could just as easily link you games where town did the same thing and call it a town tell. What. is. scummy. about. it? I want real reasons please.

[Hero764]

Let me rephrase the meta defense bit. SELF meta defense is horrible.

[Hero764]

Nope. But I choose to do so. Live with it, or replace out.

Why? Why would you possibly choose to make posts like this other than to piss people off?

How are personal attacks NOT scummy, Hero?
They're attacking the player, not the role.

They do nothing but provoke negative emotions and tick players off.

Ticking players off is anti town, not scummy. I'm sorry if you feel offended but you can't call it scummy. If you want to argue that its scummy then stop trying to tick me off please.

Oh, yes it can. Just because it's in the RVS doesn't mean it can't be solid. Any RVS content, 'cept the content from me (see: I am immune to most scum tells), is something that can *always* be looked at.

Why are you immune? Because you're unusual? No. There's no reason for the town to completely ignore any tells your drop, that's utterly retarded.

Oh, hmm, just about all of them?

And the vagueness award goes to Mastin!

Because of the cases that I have laid out in front of you that strongly connect you to Flava/Cephir and suggest strongly that you are OMGUS'ing.

Why is it strongly?

There's nothing wrong with pushing for a lynch over assumptions, anyway. If you believe said assumptions to be true, why wouldn't you push for a lynch, Hero?

Because, depending on how large the assumption, there's a high chance for a mislynch.

Need more context...

How does the vote I made make me scum?

Perhaps you ignored the fact that I explained why the comments might appear to not be serious, but in reality, they strongly show you to be scum.

I seem to have missed it. Quote it perhaps so I can address it directly?

Yes. You are defending a player on a point that they can just as easily address themselves. That's buddying (a scum tell) at *best*. A sign of scum teams at worst.

Well considering what I was responding to accused me of being one of his partners, I think it deserves my acknowledgement.

Yes. By stating that it could possibly be both, instead of flat-out stating it is both, or it isn't, Flava was essentially spreading seeds of doubt that can later be used as a buss against BOTH of them (read: You and Cephir) to be scum.

I still have no clue what you're trying to say.

As Xyl so puts it,
It isn't confusion that's the scum tell. We all get confused.
It's expressing it so early in the game that's the scum tell, because a pro-town player doesn't think about having expressed confusion; a pro-scum player will express the confusion, thinking it's pro-town.
Similar to my Caution scum-tell, really.

So pro-town players have to pretend they aren't confused? Wat.

And there's the last straw. Hero's admitting to being scum by not caring.
Caring about Meta is scum hunting.
NOT caring about Meta is showing a LACK (or very strawmanned/BS'd. Take your pick) of scum hunting.
Showing a lack of scum hunting is essentially admitting to being scum, because every pro-town player will scum hunt.

Or is this why you chop up player's post in the reply? So you can take stuff horribly out of context.

Because I'm me, Mastin, I'm an unusual players, most scum tells don't apply to me, people have been dead-certain I'm scum in other games (You'd know; you replaced into one where that happened), and proven wrong because said scum tells turned out not to apply to me.

Blatant attempt to piss me off with craplogic.

I've got an effective meta going on, Hero:
I'm never scum. Everything I do is generally a null tell, not a scum tell. Go look into practically any of my other (Mainly, Large/Large Theme) games for proof of this belief.

Really. Changing a meta isn't worth anything. It's not a rejection of the originally stated comment.

Say whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact that you can change your meta, or mix it up every once in awhile.

In the same post where you ended up cursing it. You said you had interest in it, but that it was just too annoying later on in your rant.

Did you misread or something..?

Then why are you attacking me if you know this is my playstyle?

You know my reasons for attacking you, we've been arguing about them for almost a page now.

And the overreaction reward of the day goes too......
Hero764!!!!
Congrats!

You just won a free scum-tell: Overreacting!

Alright Mastin, I think its clear to everyone that you're full of shit now. How is overreacting a scum tell?

Do you know what a scum tell is?
Something done more often by scum than by town.
That's its definition.

So if I see a lot of games where scum players bandwagoned early on, yes, it becomes a scum tell, because it's being done far more often by scum than by town.

A scum tell is something that would benefit scum more than town. You have yet to show me why scum would want to bandwagon more early on as opposed to town. Just because you find games where the people who play scum bandwagon early on does not mean a) they did it because they were scum and b) that I must act the same as them when playing scum.

Oh? Please do. Provide an EQUAL number of games to prove it to be at least null. Greater to have me even CONSIDER it a town tell.
'Til then, nope. Not buying it.

Uhh, no thanks.

What. is. scummy. about. it?

Early-on bandwagoning?
What ISN'T scummy about that?!?[/quote]Oh boy. Blatantly avoiding the question. Just to humor you:
1) Promotes discussion.
2) Applies pressure.
3) Sees reactions.

So, what exactly is scummy about it?

Mastin, what will you do when I flip town?

[Hero764]

Mastin, when I refer to your playstyle I also mean the things you consider evidence. Linking me to games proves nothing at all, you have to actually explain things, which you hardly ever do. I hope when I flip town you rethink your entire playstyle, because your attacks against me are frankly utter bs.

Also, the way in which you make posts does not show more detail at all, since you actually repeat the same thing to different parts of the same post. No reason at all to do that.

But PURPOSEFULLY doing so is scummy, not anti-town.
When I do it, tough; part of my playstyle.
When people lash out against me with personal attacks, they're scum trying to invoke a negative emotional response from me. With one exception, it has never worked before and when done, it only solidifies my view on them being scum.

Ok, where the hell do you get off that I was purposely trying to tick you off? I called your case dumb because it was.

Thing is, Hero, this is my playstyle.
How I always should be playing.
I know, it makes many players angry, but there's nothing that can be done to stop it; it's an unintentional side-effect.

What you have done is personally attacking me.
Trying to invoke an emotional response from me that will make me easier to lynch.

Or discredit my ideas as junk (see: strawmanning),
or trying to evade my posts.
No matter how you put it, a personal attack against me is still scummy as the netherworld.

I was not trying to invoke an emotional response. How do you know I wasn't showing frustration?

Because I'm Mastin, Zwetschenwasser * 10, the person who is wildly unpredictable and can do anything the heck he wants to in a game and normally get away with it. Most of the time, though, this is just unusual ways of scum hunting, unusual tells, etc. Live with it; I'm me.

How is this not an attempt to piss me off? I don't give a shit if you think you're immune, YOU AREN'T.

Yea. Ignoring scum tells that I make-->Pro-town. It's part of my meta; ignoring it is scummy.
Thinking I am scum because of the tells that I make-->Pro-scum. Ignoring my meta is super-scummy.

So you're saying that you've never once dropped a tell when you were scum?

You asked, what comments from me that you ignored.
I answered:
Almost all of them.
You commented on almost *nothing* I had said earlier in your response to it. All you had is *one* quote of *many*, and then you switched your vote as something which was clearly OMGUS.

It didn't warrant a response because it was all based on NON SERIOUS POSTS.

I've explained this before. General attitude, responses, reactions, defenses, etc.

Where did you explain it?

If you believe the assumption, no matter how large or small it is, and said assumption points to someone being scum, again, why wouldn't you want to push for their lynch?
If the assumption is large, it decreases the chance of being correct, increasing the chance of it being a mislynch, sure.

...But that doesn't answer the question. If the person BELIEVES the assumption, what stops them from pushing the lynch? They don't think it'll be a mislynch. If they believe the assumption, there is no mislynch in their mind: only a correct lynch.

Now, please, answer the question with a true answer:
If they believe the assumption, no matter how large or small the assumption, and said assumption points to someone being scum, what stops them from pushing for said person's lynch?

Answer: Nothing. Because there is no mislynch in their eyes.

Its illogical to believe assumptions this large though, that's my whole point.

After me having made a strong case against you, Cephir, and Flava being the scum team, you OMGUS me. You address, what, one specific area of the post and vote me? You call the case dumb?

That was your answer to it. Quoting just one specific area of the post, calling the case dumb, and OMGUS'ing me.

With a response like that, what makes you NOT scum? How could said response POSSIBLY be pro-town?

I want to punch you in the face so much right now =P.

What's wrong with only addressing one part of the post if that's all that I needed for a vote? Your case IS dumb, because you're using heavy assumptions and pushing so hard that we're going to get a mislynch. How is that not scummy?

And this logic only strengthens the connection between you and Flava. If you're pro-town, then you let another person answer the accusation that ties you to said person. Then you respond to BOTH with your own opinion.

Pro-scum?

You respond for your buddy.

IIRC he answered first.

I explained it as simply as I can, Hero. Flava was spreading seeds of doubt.

Yes but I don't understand how doubt leads to bussing.

No. That's not what I was saying.
Pro-town players don't express confusion early-on in a game.

Pro-scum players think that pro-town players do, and so, express their confusion.
This is NOT the same as pro-town players pretending they aren't confused.

Add twisting my words to the charges against Hero.

I'm not twisting your words. If Pro-town players don't express their confusion then what else is there to do but pretend they aren't confused?

It's true. You are in a game where it happened. A scum tell which was thought to have been applied to me...

Didn't. I flipped town.

How is this supposedly c*censored*-logic, Hero?

Answer: It's not. It's fact. This is both strawmanning, and a personal attack against me.

D:

JUST BECAUSE YOU GET MISLYNCHED FREQUENTLY DOES NOT MAKE YOU IMMUNE TO SCUM TELLS. END OF.

I'm going off of memory, Hero, but I am fairly certain that I can't forget a comment of that nature. People who drop F-bombs when cursing about my playstyle have a way of leaving their mark on my memory. I clearly recall mention of former-interest of my playstyle, then cursing it as being, well, super-annoying/distracting, or something like that.

No I mean did you misread my comment in this thread, because I never said anything about denying what you say I said. Reread it.

This is not an answer. This is blatantly dodging and evading the question at hand:
You're attacking me. When I give proof that I'm within my meta, and that you should know this, I ask a simple question:
Why attack me if you know that it's my playstyle?
Your 'response'?
The above junk.

Because I don't think your playstyle clears you.

Hmm...let's see...

Know the "Go doctor!" and "Yay, a scumbag is dead!" tells?
That's a case of overreaction.
The first has members of the mafia who lost their night-kill, cheering at it, as an overreaction to their true feelings of the opposite.
The second is the same.

Overreaction is not a reaction.
Reactions are fine.
An overreaction is a reaction that is more drastic than it should be,
As in,
It's a reaction that goes over the top, and is something only scum would do.

It's not the same as frustration. Frustration's a town tell; overreaction is a scum tell. The way to tell the difference is in the tone of a person's posts. This is the psychological part of the tell. I'm no expert, but I *am* good at reading emotions from people. I see, from you, overreaction.

REALLY want to punch you in the face right now

Ok, so what makes you think it was an overreaction and not frustration, first of all. And second of all what exactly about 'wtf?' is scummy. Don't link me games or anything, because I promise you I won't click the links, I want a real reason.

For someone accusing me of throwing BS, this is sure full of BS.
A scum tell is something more likely to be done by scum than by town. PERIOD. That's the wiki definition, Hero. Don't believe me? Look it up yourself.

Something that benefits scum more than town is something COMPLETELY different.
There is no term for it, because all other terms have other meanings as well.
Anti-town: Against the town. Can also be against the scum, though, so, nope, not benefiting scum here.
Scummy: Something that makes a player look more like scum. If said player is town, sure, benefits the scum. If they're scum, however, turns out that it's against them. Nope. Not this one, either.
Scum tells are something more likely to be done by scum than by town. Meaning that when done, a person has done a scum tell, and will be called out for it. Are they more likely to be scum?
Heck yes.
But it *only* benefits the scum if the person who did it is pro-town.

Wow I didn't know the wiki became the god of mafia.

Ok, so, Mastin. If I were to somehow show that of all the games here on MS.net, more often then town, scum teams made the last post on every page, would making the last post on a page become a scum tell? Additionally, since its highly unlikely that it would be split completely even, if the opposite was true would it be considered a town tell? Going by your definition they are. According to your definition(and apparently the wikis) dropping tells isn't pro-town/scummy at all.

You HAVE to explain WHY scum would want to bandwagon more early on before you can call it scummy, otherwise its a simple coincidence. This applies for all of your tells.

I gave you examples of it being done, Hero! You even responded to that.
Why are you ignoring it?

Because it doesn't prove anything.

I don't know *why* scum want to bandwagon more early on versus a pro-town player.
They just *do*. There are three things that can be applied to something:
Knowledge, Understanding, And Application.
Someone can know something, yet not understand nor apply it.
Someone can understand something, yet not know about it nor apply it.
Someone can apply something, yet not know about it nor understand it.

And so on.

I *know* that scum do it more often than a pro-town player will.
I don't *understand* why, though.
I can, however, also *apply* this knowledge, like I am now.

(To give a counter-example, most of us apply things every day that we may or may not know about. We just don't understand them. Take Gravity, for example. We apply it every day. When we walk, jump, pretty much every time we move, in fact, we apply gravity to said action. Most of us know about gravity, but who actually understands it?
I have yet to find something where these three principles can't be applied. Doing research will reveal that this is a belief of mine that I've held since my time on the BoF [battleon forums], and I never will stop believing it.)

You don't why? THEN HOW THE HELL CAN YOU POSSIBLY CALL IT ANYTHING MORE THAN A COINCIDENCE?

I asked for links of it being done by town.
You failed to deliver.

I know it's done more often by scum.
I don't understand why (not having done it as scum myself),
But I'll apply the knowledge of them having done it.

You know what? I'll do it just to humor. But you have to PROMISE to shut up about it.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10451 - OhGodMyLIfe bandwagons Rhinox. He's vanilla townie.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10447 - Dourgim bandwagons Panzer, he's townie.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10400 - Ice9 bandwagons Wolfblitzer, he's pro-town Watcher

Oh look, its already a null tell!

One more to make my actions pro-town! Woot.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0 - Monkeyman bandwagons Polymorphy, he's a pro-town roleblocker.

Can be done in other ways far more effectively. Like my methods, for example. (Voting self, claiming scum, skipping the RVS altogether, no lynch vote, etc.)

Nearly all of those are anti town imo(besides skipping the RVS, which hardly ever happens anyways).

On a player who has barely posted at all in less than a day of gameplay?

Yes. Why not?

3Again, can be done in far more effective ways. (Like a FoS yet vote elsewhere)

How is that more effective?

It just is. I've given examples of scum having done it, none of pro-town players doing it in my memory.

If you flipped town, I would look at those who followed my logic (especially blindly) because they'd most likely be opportunistic scum.
You won't, however, so no problem there.

I want you to admit how wrong your logic is too.

[Hero764]

1. I haven't even read some of Mastin's recent posts in entirety, but I think Hero's strong reaction reeks of frustrated scum.

Why not frustrated townie?

[Hero764]

Next post would be Post 24

Hero

, was this post serious or not?
Depending on your answer, more questions will follow.

It was not serious.

-And I see a SERIOUS Hero-Flava-Cephir connection.

How can you see a serious connection over jokes(at least on my part)?

unvote

vote: Mastin

My gut doesn't like this vote.

Why not?

Where did he say so?

I can answer this if you don't mind. It was in Open 148, page 15 I think.

[Hero764]

well it is suspicious to vote alongside someone in rvs as the second vote

Why?

Out of the three I would say Hero is the most likely to be scum

What makes you say that?

[Hero764]

because in random voting you chose to make a vote that seemed like it wasn't random. you willingly chose to buddy up with someone and start a quasi wagon, no matter how weak the basis. And all this was before anyone else casted a vote. It seems strange that you would do that if you were town.

Why does it seem strange?

[Hero764]

Sorry Zazie, I honestly did miss that post.

If it was not serious, then why did you ask for a bandwagon against Cephrir?[/quiote]For the lulz.

And I don't like it, because it gives the impression that you are scared.

And how would voting Mastin relinquish my fear?

[Hero764]

I don't like this. It just seems like scum using blackmail (in a way) to try and stop a vote on them without any particular reason for it.
Just like "Oh, you'll be sorry". Y'know?

I was just pissed at the stupidity of the logic he was using, and how much he boasts about his scumhunting record and stuff. I didn't really intend it as blackmail.

It isn't directed at you. It's just (Apologies, Mastin!) him flapping his ego about.
You should've noticed by now that Mastin plays like that. It seems be working up a scumtell where there isn't one.
(For the record, whilst Mastin's "Meta > All" kinda playstyle gets me irritated, I don't think it's a scumtell)

Well I know he does that a lot, but it seems like he might being doing intentionally to piss people. What good comes out of inflating your ego. Also note I never called it a scum tell, that was Mastin.

Is this really necessary?

Probably not. But neither is a lot of things said in this game(like you replying to it and saying that). Its a bit suspicious that you would have this in your post. Trying to make it look like your posts matters more than it actually does? Hmm.

[Hero764]

It shows you losing your rag at him, which, whilst understandable, is going a bit too far. It doesn't help the atmosphere of the game, and I would go as far as to call it anti-town.

Those comments weren't meant to be taken 100% seriously anyways, hence the smileys.

Please quote where I said that everything I posted was significant and mattered. (To save you looking, I haven't)

I never said you said that

[Hero764]

Can we get a prod on Mastin?

I love how he disappears after I completely own him .

[Hero764]

So why ask for a bandwagon against Cephrir, instead of keeping the bandwagon against Falko?

Why not? It's the RVS, you don't need real reasons to vote/start bandwagons. The joke reason was that falko was already caught scum anyways, and we could lynch him later, and that it was much more important to get the names out of Cephrir so we knew who to lynch later.

You''ve got 4 votes. And only one of those players is attacking you. Getting him out of the picture would mean a lot less of pressure against you.

Ok what? How on earth does voting for someone take them out of the picture? That's ridiculous.

This changes my above statement. It''s still scummy, only quote 1 is now worse than quote 2.
Also, can you give a summary why you are suspicious of Mastin?

What quotes are referring to?

I'm suspicious of Mastin because he's trying to get me lynched based solely on huge assumptions of why I did things in the RVS. That's far scummier than anything anyone else has done. There's absolutely no reason to be pushing for a lynch this early.

[Hero764]

But wasn''t this comment also not serious according to you?:

Yes. What's the problem with that?

[Hero764]

The first two weren''t serious according to you. Which is why you used smileys.
The quote afterwards was also not serious according to you. Yet, no smiley. Why is that?

Because I don't feel the need to put smileys after obviously non-serious posts.

[Hero764]

You''re saying that you''ve got no other reason than ''lolz'' for voting Cephrir?

Yep.

You''re trying to get him lynched. Lynching is getting somebody out of the picture.

One vote does make a lynch. And voting him certainly wouldn't/doesn't get him out of the picture, as now he's confronting me even more.

Quote 1:

I hope when I flip town

Quote 2:

Mastin, what will you do when I flip town?

What's wrong with those posts?(sorry you might have explained it earlier, I'm too lazy to go back and check atm)

And no, when you think somebody is scum, you try to get him lynched.

Well then there's no reason to be so sure somebody is scum this early in the game(unless they like, drop a HUGE scum tell, which bandwagoning is not).

Also, if this is the reason for attacking Mastin, then how come you haven''t attacked Molest as he agrees with some of Mastin''s points, or Ceph as he didn''t give a clear reason or Falko who still has his ''random vote'' on you?

Molest - He hasn't outright said that we were the three mafia and acted so sure about it, and he certainly hasn't been pushing for a lynch.
Ceph - Same thing as above. He's not actively trying to get a lynch this early.
falko - Well because there's nothing wrong with keeping your random vote on.

[Hero764]

That's when Hero's defense sort of hit me as being more than just frustrated town and more like frustrated scum trying to get Mastin to leave them alone.

Could you elaborate on this?

[Hero764]

I've fallen behind as well. Gonna catch up sometime tommorow.

[Hero764]

Sorry about the procrastination. I WILL be catching up.

[Hero764]

OK I'm here. Sorry about the wait.

This is one of the main reasons you come off as possibly scum. The emotional outbursts don’t help town and just make you look bad.

They don't really help scum either. And sorry, but that's just how I am. If it makes me look scummy, then so be it. No one in this thread has really explained what's wrong with "outbursts".

You have very valid points throughout your argument but they become overshadowed by statements like this. There’s no reason to say something like this. It isn’t beneficial and it only makes it seem like you’re trying to coerce Mastin into feeling bad for making a case against you. It makes me second guess your true alignment.

I did want Mastin to feel bad because he needs to learn not to push stupid cases based on nonserious posts that will likely lead to town lynches in future games.

Did you mean to say that one vote doesn''t make a lynch?
And I don''t understand the second sentence. Rephrase?

Yeah that's what I meant.

Rephrase: By placing a vote on Mastin, it only gives him more reason to confront and pressure me, and doesn't get him out of the picture at all(unless like 6 people were right there with me ready to quickly lynch him).

You sure you''ve played with Mastin before?

I've replaced into a game in which Mastin was already dead, and I just got lynched in a game where Mastin had replaced into(and the entire time he was still catching up). This is the first time I've had a direct confrontation with him. In those two games I mentioned he did not seem interested in pushing for someone's lynch early on.

The votes were Ceph/Hero/Flave. Falko OMGUS'd Hero over Ceph, meaning Falko is scum with Hero, and not Ceph

Bullshit my good sir. Didn't you mention something about how scumbuddies are more likely to ignore eachother? Doesn't this fit with a Cephrir/Falko scum team? Not to mention you don't even know Falko's alignment so making connections based on this is all speculative, and I hardly think it should be grounds for a lynch.

I thought he was slightly scummy before that. His responses to Mastin reinforced that.

What was scummy about my responses to Mastin? Be specific this time.

His reaction to Ceph's posts. Seemed too much like he was trying to.. look like he wanted info. But there was obviously no info there to get.

This is so obviously bullshitting I wonder why no one took note of it. No shit there was no info there to get. Hint: I wasn't being serious.

Also, in case you really didn't get that I was joking, which you obviously did, what would be scummy about wanting to know who the scum are?

But Hero is scum for one thing, he's flailing all over the place over a bunch of largely nonserious votes

What are you even talking about? Are you telling me that Mastin's vote wasn't serious?

And finally, Hero764. First off, a lot of your statements really are not beneficial. Like said, "what will you do when I'm town", and a lot of the bizarre questions I'm annoyed at Noramp for. Often, a lot of questions are lazy ("Why?" or "Elaborate please?"), others just don't accomplish anything, and this is something I see consistently in scum, asking questions that seem to be scumhunting, but really are not. No thanks to the fact that you've done nothing the past few days (that could be RL, I'd be interested to hear if that's the case), and most importantly the emotional frustration.

This is really confusing to respond to, as I'm not entirely sure what you're accusing me of. First off, what bizarre questions are you referring to, and what is scummy about them? I will also admit that I haven't really done much scum hunting in this game, and that those questions you mentioned were asked in the process of me defending myself. I disagree with you about the emotional outbursts thing. I get frustrated sometimes(like everyone) and I don't really hide it in my posts. That's just how I am. Are they anti-town? Maybe, but I don't see how they could be scummy. Do they benefit scum? Are scum more likely to freak out based on their role?

--------------

unvote

vote: Noramp

FoS: Flava Flave

Noramp's initial case against Flava Flave reaks of scumminess. All he's really done is taken pretty much every post of Flava's and twisted it into something scummy, which is not something a townie should be interested in doing. This is also implies a possible connection with Flava. Maybe he knows Flava is scum and therefor finds it easy to find scum motives behind his posts. I also don't like his defending of Falko. It makes it look like he's either scum with him or that he knows he is town.

I don't like Flava Flave completely dismissing the possibility of Cephrir/Falko scum team, when its clear that his logic easily suggests it. I'm also not liking the fact that he hasn't provided much reasoning for his suspicions against me. I know that looks like OMGUS but w/e. I would be suspicious of him for the same thing if the suspicions were directed at someone else as well.

Falko:
Why didn't you post when you said you would?

yabbaguy:
I really don't like how you're so willing to dismiss Zazie as town simply because she is actively scum hunting. Scum do that all the time as well. Actively scumhunting does not make one less likely to be scum. Nor does posting more often. There is a very possible connection between you and her at the moment.

Orangepenguin:
Why did you lie about having not checked the site?

[Hero764]

His mass lurking isn't helping the case much either.

Is this directed at me? Do you think I was lying about having not been caught up?

[Hero764]

Why are you FoSing Flava Flave while saying my case was based off of completely twisting his words. The things you brought up, I brought up as well. Why is it valid when you say it?

Ok, my apologies, not ALL of your case was bullshit, but it was pretty clear(at least to me) that your intention was simply to make every post of his into something scummy. Like I said, no reason for a townie to do that.

Emotional responses tend to come from when you've exhausted all your logic attacks and are resorting to emotion to get your point across. Often, scum find themselves running out of good logic because they know they're wrong, so this is more often than not a scumtell.

So you think I was faking the "overreactions" to sound more sincere? I don't know what to say to that other than that I was genuinely frustrated.

I would like to clear something up, I never meant to suggest that I was defending Falko, Hero. I was arguing that Flava was trying to push a bad case, since then Falko has played really poorly and has become a lot more suspicious in my eyes. The main issue with Falko in my eyes isnt the lurking, however, that is a big deal but its his backtracking over Flavas question. I personally felt his first answer was sufficient, obviously not everyone felt the same but then he went and changed his mind two more times and then disappeared. This is very scummy.

Suggest you were defending him? Looks to me like you

were

defending him, intentional or not. You also did this earlier in the game. Like I said, it looks suspicious.

Scum are more likely to ignore each other as the game goes on. But in the RVS, if a buddy votes you, you are more likely to OMGUS them than to vote a townie who also votes you.

Why is that?

I haven't dismissed anything. I only said that a Falko/Hero scumteam is more likely than Falko/Ceph. And I've given plenty of reasoning against you. OMGUS wasn't one of my points, so I don't see why you feel the need to defend against that.

O rly?

From iso 20, 22:

The votes were Ceph/Hero/Flave. Falko OMGUS'd Hero over Ceph, meaning Falko is scum with Hero, and not Ceph.

I have Falko connected to Hero, and specifically NOT to Ceph.

What do you call that, then?

Also, Flava, I'd like this answered.

What was scummy about my responses to Mastin? Be specific this time.

[Hero764]

Sorry I feel a bit behind again . I'll catch up tonight or tommorow.

[Hero764]

Prod recieved. I'm not caught up by any means, really sorry. I've just had school start this month and have been really busy, much more than I expected.

Anyways if you guys are serious about lynching me then you should know that I am the Seer first. I'll be catching up in this game in the meantime.

[Hero764]

Sorry this is going so slow. I'm still not caught up but I investigated Flave Flave and he is not a werewolf.