Mini 811: Foggy Londontown Mafia - Over!

[Tenchi]

/confirm

Some familiar faces here!

[Tenchi]

QFT Hero

vote: kikuchiyo

[Tenchi]

Anyways, it is true that the third vote on a wagon is scummy, even if it is a random vote.

No.

We need 7 votes to lynch. Placing a 3rd "random vote" especially this early is nowhere scummy. because it is not as dangerous as placing a 3rd vote in say, a newbie game.

Voting for the first person to be the third vote is a bad policy. Wagons are useful to the town and trying to break them up well before they approach a lynch in anti-town unless there is an independent reason for doing so.

^ What he said.

[Tenchi]

We need 7 votes to lynch. Placing a 3rd "random vote" especially this early is nowhere scummy. because it is not as dangerous as placing a 3rd vote in say, a newbie game.

Bandwagon pressure makes sense, but once a wagon's actually started, it can begin to draw in opportunistic scum. Nom's post, with no explanation and the pretense of RVS (even though we were clearly leaving it), felt like as good a place as any to begin.

Though it may draw opportunistic scum (and stupid townies, see our newbie game :-p) they will receive the backlash of it and may be under more scrutiny. I don't think our group (or any group in mafiascum for that matter) will lynch anyone within the first few real life days in the game so I don't see why people would push to stop wagons, let alone RVS wagons. So I really find it interesting when people start defending people this early.

Also, I find the "OMG WE FOUD A LURKER" argument funny. Lurking in the first three pages? Let's get to five or six then see who is REALLY lurking.

[Tenchi]

Will get back into this game tonight.

[Tenchi]

Mod: Personal life stuff. I swear I will be back in a few days. (More apologies to Kikuchiyo/Hero as this was supposed to be one big happy reunion.).

[Tenchi]

Am going to review this game today. Expect a long meaty post.

[Tenchi]

Finished Page 5. I will be back later!

Your uncalled for defense of FC is noted.

I was under the impression that FC found Lowell's lurking suspicious.
Lowell explained the reason for his lurking.
I concluded that the cause of FC's suspicions had been addressed.

Anyone trying to follow a town current by attacking a semantic point like this one is notable,

as far as I'm concerned.
If you're scum, that's a really convenient way to set yourself up for a vote.

You do realize that FC was the one "following a town current", don't you? I voted Lowell for

lurking. FC said they were suspicious. its not a semantices argument at all.

FC said Lowell was lurking AND suspicious. If they meant that Lowell was suspicious BECAUSE

they were lurking, then there is no need to word the accusation in such a manner. To me it

reads the same as how you are saying you are reading me: FC set up a convenient way to vote

for what may have become a town current. My vote came first(for lurking), then came FC's

unvote and accusation of lurking AND suspicion. Get it?

Why are you so interested in defending them?

BAD POSTING.

From my point of view Mokina was not defending anyone here. If there was anything he is doing,

Mokina was more of attacking/suspecting Kikuchiyo's weak argument ("Your uncalled for defense

of FC is noted").

I think Kikuchiyo is confusing a "typical counterargument" to her points to "scum

automatically defending scum". She did that twice here.

================================

Your uncalled for defense of FC is noted.

wat also really interests me is why iamausername and lowell hav kept their votes on me and

talked about. it makes no sense, since the votes sounded random.

You are far away from a lynch. I don't know if you are just uncomfortable of having people

vote for you (you seem new here) or you are overly paranoid to get lynched because of random

votes. This is MafiaScum. Random rarely happens. I'm sure us Townies will make sure of that.

================================

Tenchi: In order to get to five or six pages we need to keep questioning. What was your

interpretation of FC's statement, and do you feel my vote on them is warranted?

If you are referring to the lurking AND supicious statement, I think that he is just stating

lurky behavior. If I am paranoid, I would think of it as him setting himself to vote a lurker.

Since it was posted early in the game, I am thinking it was more of a wait and see attitude

from him.

Your vote for him was quite semantic. I would rather see another reason for voting for him. (I

have yet to check ten more pages!)

================================

This is where the problem lies, what did you expect him to

say?

He could have said quite a few things. A telling answer would have been, "well, my gut says

he's scummy," or "his random vote is suspicious." His statement was vague. It needed

clarification.

Huh? How could saying something "gut-related" or vague be of any help. I am thinking here that

there might not have been an out for FC because (from my point of view) he added two words

that made him "suspicious".

================================

We gain nothing from learning your explanations of other's actions. Why are you so determined

to protect FC from scrutiny?

I am not faulting Hero for pointing out the flaws in Kikuchiyo's case on FC. Again, though it

may look like scum is defending scum. I am thinking that it is healthy that we have a healthy

counterargument. The thing is Kikuchiyo presented her reasons for voting for FC, and I see

Hero as finding those reasons inadequate, possibly suspicious.

I still hold FC accountable though, to the concerns addressed to him. For instance Kiku asked him this:

FC: What exactly is "suspicious" about lurking on pages 2-3 after one has laid down a random vote?

================================

vote Lowell

for picking on a first time player on this site.[/b]

Why say that? I can understand pointing out its your first game when you're new and want to be given some slack, since you're not too sure what's expected yet. But now, since your bragging that you've had 10 complete games, why were you trying to pull the noob card?

Also, if you are indeed an experienced player as you say, then perhaps I shouldn't discount your behavior as "nooby". As i've said in my earlier post, your behavior has been suspicious.

Excellent find.

================================

Because many of the others just havent posted much. You've made as many posts as anyone in the first few pages, yet none of them really have any scumhunting content. Its like you're posting just to keep up appearances/defend yourself and FC, instead of helping town.

I have too many posts so I'm scum? And why the hell shouldn't I defend myself? I was only defending FC in the sense that I thought kiku's case was pretty stupid.

And I probably shouldn't say this or I might be 'defending' FC, but he never lied about his experience. He said he was a first time player on this site, not forever.

Ugh...

If I am going to turn on paranoia here, this is the second thime Hero has answered something for Far_Cry. At this point, people were suspicious of FC's contradiction in his mafia experience and played the "noob" card in the RVS, despite his ten game experience he boasts of later. Now, Hero again, answers that contradiction for FC.

Rethinking...

================================

When someone says "lay off, i'm new to the site", its implied that they are new to the game and looking for some slack, not that they're an experienced player.

Except it was the RVS, and people use BS reasons all the time.

Justifying a lie?

The point here is that he played the noob card. The noob card makes everybody think that that player's arguments is sub-par than expected. This allows that player to make more mistakes.

Next, I don't think there is anything to be gained by town to lie and use BS reasons especially in the RVS. However, scum can use it to mask their experience so that they have the full "slack" to put up crappy cases or votes.

Again, there is no reason for him to contradict himself.

=================================

Its the random voting stage, not the lying voting stage. You're not expected to lie and make stuff up in RVS that will have an effect on how people will view you for the rest of the game. Thats what he did.

If he wanted people to view him that way for the rest of the game he wouldn't have gone out of his way to mention he had been in 10 games.

It is what I like to call... *drumroll*

a Scumslip.

=================================

Answering the question for FarCry completely eliminated any information we could have gained from said question.

Hey, quit attacking the easiest target without even reading my posts. I never answered a question for him.

Easiest target? What makes you imply that?

From what I see, the latest inquiry of him has been very valid and is not something that was born out of convenience.

He has a contradiction. He has to address it.

=================================

Tenchi- to tell the truth, she draws a lot of suspicion. she has that kinda, stay out of the way attitude.

vote Tenchi

lets see how this turns out.

Way to go avoiding the series of inquiries/questions posted at you. You earn scumpoints for selective reading!

Also, plus points for voting for placing a reason for voting for me, without evidence or proof!

And finally you get half a point for misusing pronouns!

[Tenchi]

Unvote

[Tenchi]

Page 6 and 7!

126 - Kikuchiyo posts a Hero/FC Mason theorem (well also a scumpairing, but still!). She encourages a Mason claim to clear things for her.

127 - Good posting by quints. Notices Kiku's rolefishing, and demands not having other people answer for others.

128 - Kikuchiyo defends a Day 1 mason claim. FAIL.

133

Hero - twice you have provided interpretations of FC's statements. That's what I'm referring to.

By that logic we aren't allowed to use anyone's statements except our own while scumhunting. Yeah, I can totally see that working.

Um... no. What Quints is saying is that you should not interpret questionable statements for others. You should have let Far Cry clarify it for himself.

134 - Kikuchiyo summarizes questionable actions by FC and Hero.

135

qwints- I am not arguing theory. If Hero has knowledge of FC's alignment then he should be coming forward. Masons confirm each other. That's their power. Using it early can be just as useful as using it late, and in fact, moreso.

They are nowhere (at that point) in getting lynched. In this situation, FC should have come forth and explain himself, rather than outright claiming. Claiming is always the last resort.

138

Masons confirm each other.

And then they get NK'd. qwints is right, you shouldn't be rolefishing right now.

Wouldn't it be better to have confirmeds in the open now as opposed to later? If the Mafia nks a Mason, then they haven't nked a cop or a doctor or something similar.

FISING ALERT part 2!

This made me LOL. We have no idea of other roles that exist in this game. Encouraging role claims in Day one is bullcrap. Again, to save themselves, FarCry needs to come out and explain, rather than outing a potential role.

139

Sorry I'm not really caught up. Is there an argument about masons claiming? If so, I *heart* D1 mason claims. So I take whoever's side that is.

*facepalm*

143 - Quints notes Lowell's and Nadroj's active lurking (and ridonculous statements). I am noting it here again for myself!

145

It's WAY to early to be talking about a quick lynch. You seem awfully eager to force a claim early.

Noone mentioned a "quicklynch" but you. Please choose your words more carefully. Trying to paint what I say in a poor light can be seen as scummy. Further, Just because it is page six does not mean it is "too early" for a serious bandwagon, a role claim, or a lynch. When the evidence is there, then action should be taken. I have pointed out two distinct times when Hero has "charitably" interpreted ambiguous statements in defense of another player.

Can anyone point to anything FC has done which would lead one to believe that he is pro-town? i.e. is he worthy of such defense?

It is actually fair to call your actions as role fishing and quick lynching. You have been eager (you campaigned this entire page, and its page six!) to finish this day or to have some serious action taken, without waiting for FarCry, or exploring other suspicious things that are happening (say lurkalicious comments that agree with you, but don't provide full explanation, see 138/139).

Your case on FarCry is noted, but again, if they are Mason's you should consider that claiming is harmful this early in the game.

151: dank seems to be pissed off, needs to cool down.

155: Point made by Wiirdo: "He could just claim mason and lie anyway."

159: Kikuchiyo again justifies her call for a Mason claim. Though I think the intention of "maybe there's a REAL mason pair somewhere" could be good, the fact that she is encouraging them to claim is horrible. I could possibly see it as a ploy by Kiku/Hero/FC to lure out the real masons, but that's just a long shot.

164:

unvote, vote hero

. He's getting too angry and too meta for my taste.

Active lurking FTW!

No reactions on FC's "contradiction". Supports a mason claim with no explanation and uses emotions as a guage on who is scum or not! Very pro-town indeed!

Then after that a TLDR exchange between Hero and Kikuchiyo. I am still waiting for FC's take on everything, but he is gone.

In the above posts, as soon as you suspect Hero is a mason or other linked role, you ask him to claim or die. If this isn't out of the blue, I don't know what is.

...

Tenchi, any thoughts? Good-friend-I-probably-alienated-earlier Nom? We need a dialogue that isn't just me, Hero, and kiku bickering.

Mokina summarizes here how I feel about Kiku's demand for claiming here. And Mokina, I already forgot about the RVS bandwagon argument we had, we have far more interesting things happening.

171

To tell the truth, this argument between kiku and hero is just about pointless. U guys ar goin back and forth with no end in sight (well u guys at least finally agreed to somethin.)

Ignores questions directed at his actions: CHECK!
Calls it pointless without proof: CHECK!

To tell the truth, I still find Lowell throughly suspicious, but I'm gonna keep my vote on Tenchi until she finally defends herself.

Calls out Lowell, without proof: CHECK!
Add totally nothing to the conversation: CHECK!
Accuse me of everything without asking me any questions: CHECK!
Calls me a girl: CHECK!

TOTAL EFFING CLUELESS NOOB ACTION... COMPLETE!

I HAVE TEN GAMES OF EXPERIENCE... ERROR ERROR ERROR
(A)bort or (R)etry?

174:

This made me LOL too

B) Why would scum be "happy" to have two confirmed roles? Two "confirmed townies" on day 1 effectively reduces our lynch pool, and increases our chances of hitting scum WITHOUT SACRIFICING ANYONE.

Let me hint you with one word: SHOPPINGLISTFORSCUM

[Tenchi]

Keep reading, Tenchi. It gets better.

Tenchi: Masons have one power. They confirm each other. The ability to nighttalk is generally useless in that all they end up doing is drawing suspicion for working together. Once suspicion is on, they claim and it is good for town. Would it be ideal for it not to happen on day 1? Of course, but if players are under scrutiny and almoat get themselves lynched for suspicious behavior, the claim is better than a mislynch by far. By opening themselves up as unprotected "confirmed" town roles they will generally draw the first one, or possibly two, nks, thereby freeing other possible town pr's to move freely at night. If scum chooses not to nk the masons, they then have to risk failing in their night actions as well as facing a reduced lynch pool in the coming days. Would you rather a mason show up dead at the start of day 2, or a cop? how 'bout a doc? how 'bout a vig? Get it?

You present a good point here however this is where your logic fails:

Once suspicion is on, they claim and it is good for town. Would it be ideal for it not to happen on day 1? Of course, but if players are under scrutiny and almoat get themselves lynched for suspicious behavior, the claim is better than a mislynch by far.

At the point you demanded a "claim or die" verdict on them, they were nowhere to a lynch! You are campaigning for their lynch though, but most other people were still trying to question Hero for defending FC and were waiting for FC to address his "contradiction".

I know your final goal is noble. It does sound good. But the timing of the demand (i.e. they were not going to get lynched yet) is suspect. Claiming, again, is a last resort. If Hero and FC were masons they have other choices!

A. Talking their way out of it.
B. FC actually addressing questions directed at him.
C. Presenting a more powerful countercase

You did not give them option A, B and C (it was page 6 for crying out loud!) and demanded a claim. That is what bothers me.

I will be reading more now.

[Tenchi]

I am not scolding you or anything here. I am just saying that your timing is suspect, and I really think that Masons should keep quiet for as long as they can.

I am not going to "compromise" and say OMG you are right we should have masons claim. I am telling you it was a wrong attack and pressuring and now puts a target on their backs, if they are masons.

I still think they should have been given more time. And I still think you moved in too quick on a claim.

[Tenchi]

It's not really up to you to say we failed to talk our way out of it.

Well said.

[Tenchi]

Page 8-9. But I am getting tired.

175: iamusername clarifies Hero's stance. Tells that the intention of misleading the town by FC was not intentional. He also clarifies the weakness of having a mason pair claim early on.

177: Lowell notes that Quints jumps to protect Hero

178: Quints denies and calls Lowell for a misrep in 177.

180: Drunkposting FTW?

You were angry and meta, plus I like bandwagons. And IIRC correctly you made a big deal about possible mason claims, which are in no way a big deal.

It totally didn't make sense and it just wreaks scumminess. Vague reasoning. No support with proof/quotes. Belittling a D1 mason claim.

181: Very valid questions asked by Hero.

1. So kiku wasn't angry?
2. What do you mean I was meta.
3. When did I make a big deal about Mason claims?

182: Talk about just erasing stuff LOL

unvote

. Maybe that was someone else. I don't really remember. I'll think about it.

I DEMAND 181 to be ANSWERED FULLY rather than sweeping everything under the rug

184:

Vote:Lowell

for active lurking and suspicious posts.

Hallelujah for somebody noticing.

185: Excellent posting by Mokina on explaining: (A) Checking out four possibilities on cases. (B) Claim "mason" or die. (C) The value of masons NOT claiming D1.

I also want to add that no claims also gives Vanillas a chance to absorb hits in nightkills. Which is awesome for the rest of the roles!

187:

Vote:Lowell

for active lurking and suspicious posts.

Um, Wiirdo, I'm not sure if this is ur 1st game, but this sounds strange. U urself hav been lurking (a little), and then go and vote for someone else doing the same.

Kinda sounds mafiaish.

Fair call.

Meanwhile,

unvote

Obviously Tenchi will be gone (I mean, is gone). No point trying to get something out of him/her.

Good call!

iamausername, why do u keep goin on about my earlier statement about my experience in mafia? In jus about every post u hav to somehow attack me.

Don't whine. Explain why it seems to contradict. And haven't you learned anything in your past ten games? You seem to be acting too clueless for my tastes. Unless you are like... twelve years old?

Oh and Lowell, shut up. If u dont hav anything reasonable to say, don't say it. U make urself look rly retarded.

Personal attack FTW!

And kiku, u ALWAYS hav the longest posts. u hav to say something for just about everything, huh?

And more personal attacks! That is the most pro-town thing to do! Don't look for weak arguments, semantics or explain cases. Just tell her that she has a big mouth and she should shut up! Totally pro-town!

My biggest suspicions: Lowell and Wiirdo

More lists, no explanations.
RECOMMENDATION: Start asking valid questions and start prying into other people's arguments!

188: Hero uses rolling eyes FTW

194: Dank becomes a mediator. He sees the good in Kiku's D1 Mason claim proposal, but also considers the timing of the proposal suspect. Calls out FC, naj and Lowell.

196: I am noting iamusername's vote against Mokina. I don't get why it was a "genuine scumslip".

202:
Ironic! Looking for everyone when he hasn't given us anything chewy to read.

Where is everybody?

208: I am still not getting it, iamusername. But I am noting this for rereading:

Look, kikuchiyo is making a whole lot of bad and illogical arguments, it's true. That's why I was voting her earlier. But no one should let that distract them from the fact that Mokina has slipped up badly and basically admitted that she is scum:

I think the reason you went about your argument the way you did is that you honestly believe your accusation was based on something worthwhile.

This is completely counter to every argument Mokina is making against kiku. If she thinks kiku honestly believes that her accusations are worthwhile, then how is kiku scummy for making those accusations? That doesn't make any sense.

The reason Mokina thinks this is because she is scum, and she knows kiku is town. That is the only plausible explanation for Mokina making this statement. The fact that Mokina is completely ignoring this issue and trying to keep attention on the weak points in kiku's case is just further proof of that fact.

212:
OMG Far_Cry suddenly types (almost) PERFECT english.

Excuse me dank? I'm lurking just as much as Lowell? Wat the hell??

To tell the truth, dank, I didn't say that wat I said about Lowell wasn't wrong; it just that in the atmosphere this game has come to, and Wiirdo not contributing to the discussion, it sounds strange.

Mokina obviously slipped up and made herself very suspicious (and i have to say she is too), but the points brought up about kiku ar pretty true, and kiku has said some very strange things, that makes herself look suspicious.

U make urself look rly retarded.

Are you even trying to play this game?

Is that a joke? I'm just telling the truth

up to 224:

TLDR. An exhcange between Kikuchiyo and Mokina. Mokina notes that Kiku is looking for a "target" in people who disagree with her.

[Tenchi]

My attack was against Hero/FC.

YES.

Hero's defense of FC is still shoddily explained.

YES.

You are both ignoring the wifomic possibility fo a possible town doc choosing to protect one of the masons.

An assumption. We don't even know if there's a doctor. Even if there was one, scum has (arguably) a 50-50 shot of hitting a non-protected Mason. That argument in "it is ok to claim masons early" makes your proposal weak.

Further, in a five man lylo with two remaining scum and two masons, a mason claim doesn't help one bit.

Again, an assumption. We will never get there unless we keep the Masons alive, which you are (sort of) not allowing, with the pressure claim. Also, you are discounting the fact that the remaining Townie can actually think for himself in figuring out who the real masons were. Regardless that hypothetical five-player situation is actually better than a TOWNIE-TOWNIE-TOWNIE-SCUM-SCUM situation.

So I reject the reasoning that Mokina has set forth as anything other than plausible speculation. Town is better for the claim, regardless of the truth behind it.

And I still stand by my argument that your pressure to claim is suspect.

I didn't have "mason" suspicions. I had "scum" suspicions. You chose your way out of it by claiming.

Nope. You gave Hero/FC two options:

1. Claim Masons
2. Die

You had both suspicions. Do not deny that you did not bring up the option/possibility that they could be Masons together.

[Tenchi]

I owe my other game some attention. Hopefully I will be fully caught up by tomorrow.

[Tenchi]

Ugh. I will catch up tomorrow but I am wrapping my head around Far_Cry and Kikuchiyo as suspects. I am not buying the mason claim 100% though (but I only skimmed).

[Tenchi]

I am reading this last page right now and I feel like Far_Cry is being too cautious and passive aggressive in scum hunting. Saying suspects, no reasons, not much proof, no follow up questions. Reading his posts, he has the habit of throwing names as "suspicious" or drawing a "lot of suspicion" without proof or support for his claims.

His explanation in 359 is WIFOM. What if's don't serve anything especially if it is a talk about playstyles. I don't give a damn about how he or anyone plays. Meta means nothing. And how he is so far playing is not only scummy but extremely unhelpful.

And what the hell is a Joker? Where did THAT come from?

Far_Cry has not answered most of the inquiries posted against him (even if I reiterated it in my long big posts lately).

Also, Far_Cry's inconsistencies in typing (he'd type perfectly one post, then type like a retard in another) is annoying, but that is beside the point.

[Tenchi]

Was busy today. Back tomorrow.

[Tenchi]

I think I am caught up until page 13. More notes from me.

Then I think I participated until 15.

FC: I need you to elaborate on whatever you claim. You have the habit of saying "X is suspicious" without backing it up. Then you conviniently change your vote without really giving a clear explanation (clear meaning, things with proof, not gut driven).

To tell the truth, perhaps Lowell is not so suspicious. I'm rly not sure wat kind of game hes playin. Hes makin himself

too scummy

, if u know wat I mean. Obviously, he wouldn't be doin such stupid stuff if he was mafia. I still hav to say he's suspicious, but I will leave him for later.

Meanwhile, nadroj, ur agreeing with just about everything everyone says, including ur last post. It looks like ur trying to be "the good guy" and trying to get everyone on ur side. I'm not falling for it.

vote nadroj15

Nadroj is a bit scummy for bandwagonning. Noting it here. Seen on Page 12.

[Tenchi]

This is the the same sentiments I have with the mason claim, only you worded it better.

The masons are interesting - I find it unbelieveable how much Hero has been defending Far Cry. We are lucky in that we have the chance to lynch FC first, because I suspect that will shed a good deal of light on Hero's alignment. For those that missed it earlier, Hero's most important effort in protecting Far Cry came on post 298 where he derails the wagon entirely by voting for nadroj, one of the many relatively useless active lurkers in the game. All momentum on the FC wagon dies and the town start reassessing again. Why not vote FC if you wanted to vote a scummy active lurker? Why not vote Wiirdo? Why wait until exactly that moment? Because it fits a consistent pattern of defending FC every chance you get. I find it highly dicey.

Other things I don't like about the masons - Monika's breadcrumb is very specific, but it's so late! Anyone could breadcrumb at 186, especially after the word 'mason' had been bandied about for pages and pages. To me, the entire point of a breadcrumb is that it has to be early and specific. If I am L-2, quickly write my role down the side of the page then claim in the next post, noone would believe my crumb and rightly so.

Wow. I don't want to make this into a math game. Probabilities suck, becuase a person maybe buy a lottery ticket and win, despite the fact his chances were 1 in 500,000, despite the fact that 499,999 people lost, he still won. This shouldn't be about probabilities. We simply have to play the game and logically figure out everything, not use math.

You say this Far_Cry but your behavior all game, your "suspicions", do not reflect what you deem to believe here.

I think your Doc claim is crap. And I am worried that the nadroj secondary wagon was a clever distraction from your lynch.

VOTE: Far_Cry

Vote Count Twelve

Far_Cry: 4 (Tenchi, Mokina, nadroj15, SerialClergyman)
nadroj15: 4 (Lowell, qwints, Hero 764, Far_Cry)
qwints: 1 (iamausername)

Not Voting: 3 (dank, kikchiyo, Nikanor)

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Current deadline: Saturday, July 18th 8:10 AM EST

[Tenchi]

Oh - also, doc is easily the best scum fakeclaim. It's got as much chance of being countered as any other common role, but if you are counterclaimed by a cop, then the doc

remains hidden

, so the cop isn't going to be immediately NKed.

The only common role where once he claims he's dead? Doc. Thus making it perfect for a scum fakeclaim to nab a power role before they get killed.

So this idea of doc being a hard role to fakeclaim as scum is nonsense.

^ Please listen to that guy.

I think this is a plot to lure out roles before he dies. Barring the claim, what Far_Cry has done nothing to address my concerns over him.

[Tenchi]

I'll hammer FC if necessary. Although I really do not think we should be lynching an uncounterclaimed doc based on a poor playstyle in general.

Poor playstyle? Is that all you putting this on? That the guy has a poop playstyle that's why every other word he says is scummy?

(Case in point: Read my past posts on him).

Also, FC also tried to throw us for a loop with the introduction of the Jester theory. I mean seriously? A jester?

He is playing on self-preservation.

Get rid of him.

[Tenchi]

Distracted, yes. Will be back again Thursday.

I just noticed how disastrous that last day/night was. And I am even more surprised that Lowell got lynched. Any summaries on that?

[Tenchi]

vote: Tenchi

Patting yourself on the back, scum?

I find it strange that you're surprised about Lowell's lynch when you attacked him for active lurking repeatedly yesterday. Furthermore, it's suspicious that you didn't post at all when the town was choosing between two town PR - you sat back and let the town attack itself.

Vote: Tenchi

You are not doc. Why are you lurking?

Nope I was busy during that time.

I was actually expecting Far_Cry to be lynched. F_C was way worse (pushing suspicions on everybody, etc) than somebody who was lurking, so I do not know how that happened. Regardless, I take full responsibility on suspecting F_C to death eventhough he apparently was telling the truth.

I am not sure of Day One dynamics but I think that there is a tertiary lynch in Day One and scum used both of the lynches as distractions.

Also, why are there two nightkills? Is it safe to say there's a Serial Killer?

[Tenchi]

OK. I am going back to Kikuchiyo with the early game rolefishing thing. I really think there is some strategy in outing the roles this early but I am not sure how.

[Tenchi]

OK. I am going back to Kikuchiyo with the early game rolefishing thing. I really think there is some strategy in outing the roles this early but I am not sure how.

????

Scum try to out PRs so they can kill them. What's confusing about that? Your major premise is fine (people who rolefish are scummy) but you need to work on your minor premise (Kiku rolefished) before you reach the conclusion that Kiku is scummy. I'm not rejecting your case out of hand, but I'd like to see you point how Kiku rolefished more than others and to address the obvious defense to your charge that I'm sure Kiku will point out.

Unfortunately, it is the only thing I can see from this game that I can remember on the top of my head. See sample rolefishing in Post 135. She also suggested the Mason theory on post 126.

Pressuring players defending each other on day 1 and asking for reasonable explanations for unreasonable defenses is not "rolefishing".

It is the only thing I have right now. Sorry!

TBH I am confused as hell, but Tenchi fits the scum mold here the best. By lurking through and spreading out his attacks he has kept himself somewhat clean. He never really went after anyone on his own, but rather jumped into arguments and took sides, but never really stuck to his guns until it came to lynching the uncounterclaimed doc. I am happy with my vote at this time.

True but here is the thing. I was one of the early pressurers of F_C before he tried to even claim Doctor. I did not "jump into arguments" as you were trying to imply. I think I did try to get some reasonable suspicions out of him, and he failed.

Alright, you're going to be busy. Instead of posting something meaningful, or making some sort of point, you say "oh wow, last night sucked", and then go off on your way, without offering anything helpful to town.

That's what makes it lurking over not, the fact that he once again contributed very little.

True, but the thing is I was checking in because I have been gone from this game. I NEVER want to flake because it is bad reputation here in MS. Unfortunately, circumstances has reduced me to "lurkalicious" these past few days. Catching up now, though.

If he had time to contribute something meaningful, why would he even need to tell us he was busy?

What he said.

Tenchi is not "not around". He is here and he is avoiding this game for some reason.

Nope. I usually give priority in doing stuff for my modded game. Then (unofortunately) I give each game I have here one day a week (at least for the past few weeks). I have been consistent in my activity and I have my forum posts to prove it.

I am not faking "busy".

The only thing stopping me voting for kiku is that in the last game I played with her she was scum and she played quite differently.. She was much more reserved and only made the odd insightful comment. She is so aggressive here it's really a marked difference.

She was nowhere reserved in the last game I played with her. She was scum and she was good at it. I am not adding this a point against her. Rather, I just want to nullify your comment on her being "reserved as scum" meta. (See opening comments that I played this game primarily because my game with Hero and Kiku just finished.)

Our power roles were outed by poor play, to imply that I am some sort of scum mastermind bent on outing masons is absolutely ridiculous. Tenchi pushed that a bit yesterday and seems content to ride it today.

I am not "content" on it. It is the only thing I have right now. THis day is still long. And you do know I am smarter than that. On the other hand, you pushing my lynch since I am "faking" busy or "riding reasons" when I presented suspicious posts and asked replies from my suspects is ridonculous. Which actually feels a bit familiar...

Given the drama of the end of yesterday, the competing wagons on different townie power roles and the possibility that attention was being turned away from nadroj/gwyn, why on earth would you use really weak tells like lurking to make a decision on day 2? It doesn’t add up.

Noting this for myself.

WTH am I being attacked for lurking when there are others who are lurking? (And I need to confirm whether those people are actually lurking.)

Just a couple of posts ago you were saying you were confused as all hell, but now you’re asking why everyone else is so sure that Tenchi isn’t scum?

You are ignoring the case. His selfsuredness in lynching the uncounterclaimed doc after a day of lurking.

[/quote]

F_C was had no plans of answering any of my questions I posed to him. That was worse than a common scum claim, "Doctor".

For those not voting Tenchi: Why are you so confident that he is not scum?

What exactly has he done that is "pro-town"?

Not voted for a claimed information role, for one.

??? Clarify ???

I voted for a Doctor despote his claim (see above and my previous posts for reasons though).

Sorry, but I find anyone pushing a case on me today to be scummy.

FYI: That is called OMGUSing!

It's true that the main reason that I'm attacking Tenchi is his lurking -- his absence as deadline approached was conspicuous.

Ugh... you can check my activity level in the whole forum during that time. I can't really help it.

I find the level of defense Tenchi has gotten bizarre

I do to. But I actually find it reasonable if a player believes I am Town and is in the perception that I won't be around to defend myself.

Fair enough. However, you don't think it scummy when someone seems to soft claim a role they don't have?

I read the posts that you suspect me of roleclaiming (Post 20 and 21 I believe) in isolation and I had no intention of soft claiming. I do think at that point that F_C was a desperate scum. Further, it is also

my responsibility as a townie

to be vigilant and prevent any unecessary discussion on power roles,

whether I have a role or not

.

Nikanor actually bothers me with his insistent push on my offhanded comments about lovers. Wiirdo didn't do much for us either, so I think there might be a good start. I think dank and qwints may be clear, but if i had to choose between the two, qwints is much more fitting of scum profile with their voting pattern. Obviously, Gwyn is most likely scum of any of us as their bandwagon should have had more steam(of course, that's partially my fault).

If you are town, I demand you pursue the leads you have here, and provide proof.

In other words, why are you giving up that some people are not buying your Tenchi case when you believe that Gwyn (or quints) could also be scum? We are not on a big deadline here! You still have time!

THIS IS A REVIEW THAT ENDED ON POST 675. (Post 676 scared me.)

[Tenchi]

Emphasizing.

KIKUCHIYO:

In other words, why are you giving up that some people are not buying your Tenchi case when you believe that Gwyn (or quints) could also be scum? We are not on a big deadline here! You still have time!

[Tenchi]

Mod: Replacing out. New job. Sorry