Mini 803 - Pale Moon Risin' (Over!)

[camn]

/confirm

[camn]

Hi!

You should all know.. I am listening to Tribe. It is getting me into the mood to study. Plus you should also know.. I need to study until Wednesday!

That said:

VOTE INCOGNITO

Your random vote shenanigans have gone to far.

[camn]

Thank you for that revenge vote, Mr. Fluff!

VP, Where is my grammatical error?? Oh, nevermind. I see it.

[camn]

You could have stated you had no reason.
But a big blank spot IS suspicious.

[camn]

So, this is TOTALLY not comprehensive... I am just trying to KIND OF keep up in between cramming.......maybe add a tiny bit to these games!

But, as we all know, you don't have them on sundays

I had one on a Saturday morning, so it's possible.

Whoever thinks that the weekend BEFORE finals isn't busy has been out of school TOO LONG!

There's another reason for that vote, but I'd like to withhold that information at this time too.

Why are we witholding reasons for votes?

He has been doing that lately! I don't like it either.........its new, I think.

Does it matter if a case is weak at this point in the game? A weak case is better than a joke case or no case at all.

SO TRUE.

For the record, I'm slightly suspicious of KMD because he's usually obvtown no matter what his alignment is, and this time I'm not getting that feel from him. I don't know what this means though.

You expect me to look overly protown in the RVS?

I kind of agree.........you usually DO look obvtown all the time! Even in Medieval.....you only got caught on voting patterns...
I haven't read you that hard in THIS game yet, though... so I am not saying you are scummy YET. Just commenting....

Charter tunneling was trademark of scum-Charter in Family Guy mafia. He's opposite of Mykonian in that he'll blindly commit to a case.

Charter does this as town too. Probably even more than he does as scum. I won't lynch Charter for tunneling.

That he does... but I

would

lynch him for it!

[camn]

Why are we witholding reasons for votes?

He has been doing that lately! I don't like it either.........its new, I think.

As town, scum, or both?

I have only noticed in ongoing games... so I don't know yet!

I kind of agree.........you usually DO look obvtown all the time! Even in Medieval.....you only got caught on voting patterns...
I haven't read you that hard in THIS game yet, though... so I am not saying you are scummy YET. Just commenting....

Says the vig who killed me.

And I even tried to connect myself to you, Yos, Farside, and Tajo before I died. But RS was the one who everyone connected to me...[/rantonbadgame]

But seriously, I only killed you because EVERYONE on that day1 mislynch other than you and Yos were cleared! I had a town read on you until then... but the Process of Elimination is compelling!
Then of course it was my pleasure to vig you.

[camn]

UNVOTE

I don't get Incogs weird voting gambits, but I don't have a real scum-read on him... so I gotta pull my vote for now.
Incog.. I am too swamped to meta-check you... but do you do this a lot? Vote for no reason, then refuse to provide those reasons when asked?

I'm a little behind, but I'll try to look at this Zilla case sooner rather than later..

[camn]

YOU just avoided my question!!


Hmmm....
I cant remember Incog-town EVER sidestepping a meta-question!
That is usually MY move...

[camn]

I didn't mean to imply you had no reason... Just that you voted with no

stated

reason...
And then even witheld it on questioning!
So maybe it was stated weird... Yet the question is STILL unanswered!!?

Do you do it a lot?
Or are you trying out something new?

[camn]

Camn, honey bunny, I do it once in awhile.

Now you are just sucking up.

MY READS

:

1.

Kmd4390

If Zilla is scum, KMD is town. He is on her from the start. Of course, then he mentions that we should never underestimate how hard someone will buss...
What? Only 10 posts? I was certainly under the impression he was more prolific in this game?
Null read.
2.

ZazieR

Wow. This is harder than it usually is.
Zazie seems to me mind-melded with KMD regarding the Zilla situation. Maybe they think alike? Maybe they are scum together?
Null Read as well.
3.

Plum

You can't have "lots-o-fun" unless you post more! You are ALSO on Zilla from post 0. hmm.
No read.
4.

LlamaFluff

I get a slight scum-read here. Especially when he said "I like people to vote as it forces them to put up some suspicions" in HIS post 5... after refusing to lay out any reasoning for his own votes. Maybe I am just hypersensitive to no-reason-STATED-votes.... but it seems slightly hypocritical.
5.

Porkens

Totally wasn't rolefishing.
Fails at tags.
Not very many posts.
Not the Porkens I know and Love. Maybe it is because he is behind. . . so I will cut him a break. But Please.. ponder. Get us something to read here.
6.

afatchic

DieLurkerDie?
7.

camn

ObvTown:)
Wait.. ONly 9 posts? I thought

she

had been more prolific in this game, too!!
8.

Mykonian

Ah, Incog. I see what you mean about him being scummy.
I especially see it starting at 91
Then the threat to Lurker-vote... but we certainly have a lurker he could have voted.. so what was that about?
However, the meta on Zilla might be accurate.. I havn't checked it yet. And as KMD says, a good buss can take you a long way.... probscum.
9.

Charter

I have been trying to read charter with fresh eyes, because I have always had skewed reads on him in the past.
I am not a big fan of how he has hardly posted, but is simply naming the scum... but he doesn't read as scummy to me as he used to (in previous games, where he ended up being town). Which means he is probably scum? Maybe-scum... Pls post more!
10.

Incognito

Hmm. I can't recall ever playing with Incog-scum, so I don't have a complete meta-set on him.. but something is CERTAINLY bugging me about his RVS antics. I can't really pin down what it is, but until I do... Maybe-scum. I REALLY don't like how he dodged my question. Twice. That seems very UN-Incog.
11.

Zilla

Hmm.
Although I totally see the case on her, I think it is a thin case, and a scum-driven wagon. I agree with her comments on Mykonian in HER post 7... and I ALSO agree that the so-called "Spaghetti strategy" is not just a scum strategy! In fact, WIFOM aside, it seems that scum would AVOID it, because it is so easy to push a lynch on the grounds of "pushes crap-cases". Townies want to catch scum. So why not throw some shiv around? It seems like a good Day 1 method to me.

FOS: Zilla Wagon

I also don't like how there is so much meta-quoting running around. BORING.
12.

VP Baltar

Not a lot to go on here, either. I get a little whif of IIoA in his last post.. but not much. Prob-town.

IN SUMMARY:

Obviously I support a lurkerlynch.. but I certainly understand that this week might be hard!
I am against a Zilla Lynch, and interested in some Mykonian hate.

In that vein:

Vote: Mykonian

Cliff'sNotesCase:
HIS post 3+4 = buddying up to a townie?
His post 16 is nutso. Is a RVS vote important or not? I def am getting the not-voting-cuz-I'm-scum-worried-about-vote-analysis-following-mislynch vibe.
Post 18... promises lurkervote. No lurkervote.
Post 19. You are 16 years old (ref:post15). Yet you had Finals? Hmmmmmmmmm.
20+ solicits meta arguments? but says "drawn together. lets forget that one... "
Either you are looking at meta or not. You shouldn't pick and choose...


That is all.
Back to study.

[camn]

A) My analysis here is quick. It may not be to my usual level of DEPTH.. so forgive me!

B) I DID understand he charter-lurker comment. But if he will vote CHARTER for lurking, why wouldn't he vote AFATCHIC for the same?
Especially considering that with charter, being scummy is practically a way of life, and someone pointed that out?

c) Re: meta.. I don't have time to wade through games till after finals! (if then!) SRY!

D) maybe i pay more attention to Incog than you............... Thats why his points and not mine. Plus, when reading you, I was more interested in the case AGAINST you than your case against Mykonian.

--------------
Preview edit: Jesus theres more!

D) I have a hard time reading charter. I always think he is scum, and he always ends up being town. It is annoying.

E) He DID ignore my question. It was "DO YOU DO THIS A LOT???"

F) It wasn't rolefishing. You WERE casting your net kind of wide. I see that, and I have seen people get lynched for less. I have seen them get MISlynched for less.
By "See" I mean I understand it.. so I don't need anyone to explain it to me. I simply disagree that you are necessarily scum because of it.

G) I

ALWAYS

support a lurkerlynch. But I think that Mykonian is worth looking at instead.

H) I missed all that. I may have skimmed, cuz I get tired? He was last on the list.. and I almost just skipped him!


SORRY ABOUT NO QUOTES!

[camn]

but ehh, do you think that is a tell on camn? Trying to be seem active early in the game?

On the contrary . . i am actually trying to

BE

active early in the game, despite my RL biz.
I think jotting down my thoughts on everyone is helpful. Both for me, looking back during the game,... and in the event of my death.


...who ARE you, anyway? Wtf?
Are you Mykonian's alt?
Ha ha. you ARE! Been getting meta-killed lately?

[camn]

and I don't think that account is going to be used a lot... in the freeking first post, how bad can it get?

Hahaha!

I learned recently that the move is to set the Board-Color-preferences to a different scheme for your alt. Like Sepia for one, blue for the other. Then you can remember better.

Not that I have an alt.

BTW, you creating an alt today is scummy.
Guilty conscience? Something to hide? I think so.

[camn]

A) Porkens.. I love you. More than ever.

B)

O yes, thank you for pointing at charters meta

I will vote you on the moment I have the idea you are lurking

Explain this for me one more time....cuz I still don't get it.
You would vote CHARTER for lurking... but your buddy afatchic gets a free pass? Is that what you are saying here?

I ctrl+f'd your posts.... not even a MENTION. Not a whisper. Not a head nod. You completely ignored the uber-lurker, and waited for a real man to handle biz.

Whats the deal?

[camn]

Porkens dayvigged a filthy lurker!

The fact that that lurker flipped scum is simply the karma gods rewarding us all!
I, for one, have never heard of mafia daykilling their buddy. It seems inconceivable... especially day one, with a perfectly good wagon in place.

He could easily have vigged Zilla, and not bothered claiming..... Or could he?

Porkens: Were you

required

to write "blam" or something? Or could you have dayvigged invisibly?

[camn]

I say we lynch mykonian today, and then you can all consider how awesome my case on Zilla is tomorrow.

Yes, please.

I agree that one shot should not of been used when it was, but its not a scumtell at all. Some people prefer to use one shot roles early, I try and use limited abilities by night two.

I like Day-one vigs... just in case you die! Gotta get that killing in!!
And with an unrepenting lurker in the game... y not?!

[camn]

Basically, KMD's case also seems to hinge on "town can't make gambits," since apparently trying to get reactions out of players is scummy.

Yep, I just said that town doesn't make Gambits, right?

You MUST be being sarcastic here.......right?
Cuz I have seen you try "gambits" as town....

Don't make my case out to be built on things I don't believe. I know a good Gambit when I see it, and that wasn't one.

DO YOU????
I have also see you fail hugely at differentiating a good gambit from a poor one . .

By this point, if KMD is still pushing the same case, he's not playing as town.

Of course.

This MUST be you being sarcastic!
Cuz I have ALSO see you push a single crapcase for an entire game.... as town.
HOWEVER.. I would imagine you had learned from that.. so it could easily be coverup-scum-meta.

[camn]

Meta is dumb.

[camn]

Hmmm.

Zilla, I am almost ready to follow you on this KMD biz.
Something about post #325 seems funny to me.. I'm not sure what it is yet.. but I'm going to think about it over drinks tonight... see if I can nail it down.

hmm.

[camn]

I'm drunk.. and I will look at VP.. but I gotta say.. my drunk-read on KMD?

SCUM.

that is all.
Except. I am SO GLAD summer is here!

[camn]

Camn, what's your read of VP?

So, I just spent like, an hour, laying in bed thinking about VP Balthar!
I re-read him in this game, and I even reread him in the Near-Vanilla we recently played together....and he still seems town to me.

His posts this morning seem to match, in tone, his townie angst from Zazie's game. But he replaced in to that game, so I don't have any day-1 experience with him.

HOWEVER, I did some empirical analysis.. and I did notice one thing:

He never mentions afatchic.
Why is that? No mention at all. Everyone else at least comments on afatchic...(except LLAMAFLUFF!) maybe they are trying to keep the distance?

I have certainly played games where my move was to TOTALLY ignore my buddy. And won them. I think it is a decent scum-strategy.

VP.. why no comments on afatchic? Or did I just miss them?

[camn]

Camn:

I don't think the point you raised against VP Baltar is valid or a point against him -- there were plenty of other people (including me) who hadn't bothered mentioning anything about afatchic until after he flipped scum. What do you think of the other points raised against VP like the backtracking, etc.? Why are you using meta when discussing your thoughts about him when you previously mentioned that "meta is stupid"?

-- It's really really creepy how many people are ignoring the scumminess of LlamaFluff here.

A) I didn't mean to imply it was weird that he didn't mention afatchic BEFORE the vig... but rather that he didn't mention fatchic AT ALL. not before. not after.
Scum getting Dayvigged day one is usually worth a comment.

Also, I checked before I brought it up. There were NOT a lot of people who never mentioned afatchic. Only VP and LLAMAFLUFF. It is so strange to me, that I am almost convinced that there MUST be at least one scum between the two of them.

B) Meta IS stupid... but I don't have a hook on VP. I don't have much insight into if he is scum or not... I was asked directly for an additional read on him... plus I didn't want to get out of bed.. so I went over that game again! And look what it got me . . NOTHING! (

except a HUGE ego-boost. I was REALLY awesome in that game!

)

C) Regarding the backtracking, etc... I don't really get it the case on him. I am still a little behind, but I am catching up!

d) I concur that llamafluff needs scrutiny.

[camn]

The same thing bothers me with Camn saying she needs to reread VP and Llama.

when did this happen?

[camn]

I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring your request!

[camn]

why no comments on afatchic? Or did I just miss them?

Nope, not that I recall. I dunno why I never did. I guess because he wasn't present...I can't really make any excuses other than he wasn't on my mind until Porkens axed him.

So you are saying he was "on your mind"

after

he got killed?
But no mention THEN either?

[camn]

I think I'm missing/

not understanding things here

.

QFT. You've become

increasingly

lazy since you stopped being under suspicion.

And I think

incredibily

lazy is a bit of a weird thing to say. No, I'm not debating with one person, and yes, I still sleep. But apart from that, this lurking accusation makes little sense....

maybe a bigger font size would help?

[camn]

Look, people.. these last couple pages have made me think we are kind of spinning our wheels.

Though I would LOVE to put SOMEBODY at L-1.. I don't really get scum from VP right now.
In fact, it would not surprise me at all to see VP, KMD, and Llama ALL be town...

I really am thinking NOW, that Mykonian, Zazie, and maybe Plum need some more pressure... but I understand that the deadline is going to be on top of us really soon.

So, I am willing to support a KMD lynch, if we can't get on any of those 3.......and obv I will go for anything rather than a no-lynch at deadline. But I don't like where we are at right now. Of course, I rarely am satisfied with day 1.

[camn]

We could just lynch her, Incog.

[camn]

HOLD ON!

VP Balthar!!..Did you forget I was here?
Explain yourself.

[camn]

Hm.

I Like your style, Porkens. You remind me of.... me

I'm kind of into a Llama-lynch. This day is just getting started though... I think I will re-read him right quick. But I seem to remember not liking his play so far...?

[camn]

Well, KMD.

I have some things to speak to you about...I almost forgot this was the game with you in it!

You followed Zazie's game after you died, NO?

(serious question)

[camn]

Hmm. I don't get it, but I buy it.

But KMD..

...
I missed this before (stupid drinking!) but now I see you DID follow Zazie's game!

Well, I'm not sure what the hell VP was doing. May have imitated Mufasa in the Zazie-modded game because Camn said it was a good move. Now thanks to him, we have a claimed doc out. VP is definitely a better player than that.

so please.. in light of that game, explain this:

I'm the doc.

VP lives unless he gets countered.

HOLD ON!

VP Balthar!!..Did you forget I was here?
Explain yourself.

Today we lynch scum, camn. That's all the explanation that I can give today. Trust me, k.

Unvote, Vote VP Baltar

This is an EXACT REPLAY of Zazie's game.
Are you denying that you knew what was going on?

[camn]

For everyone else...
In OPEN 122

Claim: Doctor

Mufasa Claimed Doc AS A VANILLA TOWNIE.
Maadneet, the REAL doctor, counterclaimed . .

Too bad - I am the Doctor.

THEN I REPLACED IN

In my FIRST POST....

ANd now, christ! A brand-new green newb does something brilliant.. and you guys lynch him for it.
Mufasa, I salute you.
If you hadn't gotten counterclaimed...... you could have drawn the nightkill easily. That was your plan, right? Get killed, taking one for the town, and get out of this insane game? Hmph.

VP Balthar Understood.

As much as you guys seem to hate the idea of claiming doc (or any protown power role), Camn is correct. There are instances in which it is a good play to make for a VT. Whether it was the right move for mufasa to make at that time is debatable, but all in all its not scummy of camn to say it may have been a good thing. Regardless, we are where we are and we know that maad is the doc.

And I had further comment...

...it was maadnet that misplayed, though, you understand. Despite dejkha's 767, he claimed. This was not Mufasa's problem.

VP STILL understands...

I agree that it was a stupid action for mufasa to falseclaim at that time. I was saying that there are times where it is a valid move

Me, again, talking about the reasons to claim Doc as a VT...

It was brilliant. ...a 100% of vanilla Nightkill > 1/4 chance of a PowerRole Nightkill.

My Point?
This GAMBIT, claiming doc as a VT was well understood by VP Balthat

AND BY KMD

, and KMD coming out to re-vote him... especially considering that I had more to say on the issue.. is extremely suspect.

Even if he tries to say that he didn't follow that game (he HAD been killed the night before...)
He knew that Me and VP Balthar were both in that game...
he knew that a Doc fake-claim had happened...
He knew that no real doc should CC...
and

KMD KNEW that VP was town.

But voted him anyway.

[camn]

PLUS, FOR THE RECORD.. Both VP and I were town in that game...

and we won

.

I think KMD is scum, and thought he could

SLIP THIS PAST ME

.
Or maybe he was just crazy-afraid that me and VP were going to team up and destroy his little wolf-group. VP did say in that game...

Quiver at the unholy alliance of VP CamnX.

Now he is being mega-sloppy for going after me so quick.. and I intend to see him hang. He knew what was going on, and I can't believe you guys let him push the lynch while I was on the bus! I

obviously

knew something!

That is all.
I sleep now.

VOTE: KMD

[camn]

This really has me interested here:

Though I would LOVE to put SOMEBODY at L-1.. I don't really get scum from VP right now.
In fact, it would not surprise me at all to see VP, KMD, and Llama ALL be town...

I really am thinking NOW, that Mykonian, Zazie, and maybe Plum need some more pressure... but I understand that the deadline is going to be on top of us really soon.

She sets herself up to look good pretty much no matter who is lynched by saying she wouldn't be surprised to see VP, Llama, and myself all be town. Three players who SHE SUSPECTED until this post. And she's even come back to suspecting Llama.

Another thing about that post is who she names as scum. Two of those players have flipped town. The other, Myko, is someone who I think is town. Camn, what made you suspect Plum, Zazie, and Myko? Are you still suspicious of Myko? Hell, what had you suspicious of Llama, VP, and myself? What made you change your mind? And now, why are you back on Llama?

PLus, KMD, you misrep me slightly here!

My comments RE: not being surprised.. I said that about them BECAUSE they were my suspects! I am always very unsure Day1.

And I

didn't

say I "name as scum" Mykonian, Zazie, and Plum. I listed them as needing more pressure

because of their level of activity

. How you warp my typical lurker-pressure into "THEY ARE SCUM" is beyond me!

Golly, I have a couple more things on KMD.. but I will chill till I see his comments!

[camn]

He had just been killed, which is why I asked him if he followed it.. so I don't have a reaction then.

My point is, we all had a good-sized argument about a VT fake-claiming DOC, and what the proper response would be... Balthar and I especially. Balthar was pulling something yesterday.. I knew it, and KMD ALSO knew it.

THe fact that he re-voted, an in fact allowed a lynch is incredibly suspect to me considering our experience in that game!

[camn]

Are you denying that you knew what was going on?

I had no clue VP was going to flip VP. I thought Mufasa made a bad play in that game and didn't think VP would repeat it. Maybe there are positives to it that I don't see because I respect VP as a player. *shrug*. I don't get it, but it is what it is.

I followed the game enough to know that Mufasa fakeclaimed as town (I think I was still alive actually), and I remember you calling it a good play, but I didn't remember VP being ok with it. Like I said, I don't see the benefit as most docs WILL counter in that situation, and DID both times. And both times, the fakeclaiming townie was lynched

.

SO are you saying you WERE aware of the MUFASA-GAMBIT, but you didn't think VP would actually try it?
Or that you DIDN'T see what he was doing?
Or that you DID see it, but wanted to punish him for it?

Well, my bad then. When you put "town" next to your suspects and "pressure" next to people you don't think are scum, I'll get confused, especially with very little sleep lately.

I forgive you. I was busy too, with finals and all.
I certainly admit that Day 1 was overwhelming to me. YOu don't need to worry about that now that summer started!

I saw a claim from a good player and a counterclaim. I assumed that meant one of the two was scum. That is what I will almost always assume in that situation.

Which would totally be normal! EXCEPT that we had JUST gone through this in 122! Plus, I asked VP about it, he responded cryptically... why didn't you hold off a couple hours for me to respond?

Hey Camn, if I was scum, why would I push the lynch on a player you claim I knew was a VT instead of pushing the player who I would think is the doc? Or even switch to Llama or someone else?

Obviously.. it is the normal, accepted play... so you thought you could easily get away with it!. Only the fact that VP was counting on YOU and ME noticing what he was doing... that fact makes your vote suspect.
I agree that it was not the best play for him. . . but the question now is "what were YOU thinking about?"

[camn]

Hmm.

When I came home to find Vanilla-VP dead..... I was CONVINCED you were scum!
Now I am not so sure.

What was I thinking about? This game. Two claimed docs. One must be scum.

Spyrex said almost the exact thing in 122....

....yes I was willing to vote for either of them because, get this,

one of them should have been scum

.

Hmm.

Now.. to additional matters.

KMD, what is your opinion on unsolicited softclaims?

[camn]

I thought you did..

I see them as scummy, too.

[camn]

Camn, no reason for that question?

Oh, there's a reason.

I just am giving myself a little time to think about you.. .

@zilla.. give me a fresh look today... my exams had me all screwed up Day 1!

(plus I hate Day 1....)

[camn]

Look,

Normally I would be totally against a D1 Doc counterclaim no matter what.. but given she is a 1-shot.. I think it was totally fine.

As it is, we lost absolutely nothing by it. It was the right play.
The only bad part was not letting me get to the bottom of things.. but nobody should have known that.

Except KMD...

[camn]

/sigh

Yes... Killing you twice was enough!
I like that you admit your mistakes.

Go ahead and bring your case against me.
Meanwhile, lets see what we can see:

unvote
Vote: Charter

I had given up on trying to read charter lately, since he always seems like scum to me, but always flips town... But he has to be scum sometime, right?
I will look at him harder tomorrow!

[camn]

what dont you like about it?

[camn]

With the kinds of roles we've got out in the open already (and with Kmd's softclaim), I've kinda been thinking that maybe we should mass claim. Does anyone agree/disagree? Why?

I tend to agree.
People already have claimed left and right...... we might as well get everything out there.

THough we just finished a game where we totally lost because we spent too much time discussing roles and setup... and not enough discussing scumminess... right Lllama?

On another note, Incog.. what DO you think about KMD softclaiming>?

[camn]

With the kinds of roles we've got out in the open already (and with Kmd's softclaim), I've kinda been thinking that maybe we should mass claim. Does anyone agree/disagree? Why?

softclaim?

You deny it?

[camn]

Whats "SA" anyway.. and why are we so interested in it?

More stuff that's bothering me.

Llamafluff (1):

VP Baltar

Mykonian (1): camn
Zilla (1): Charter
VP Baltar (6): Mykonian, Llamafluff, Zilla, Incognito, Kmd4390, Porkens

(Not voting --

Plum

,

ZazieR

)

Have a look at this final vote count. We've got two people (aside from VP himself) off the VP wagon who ended up flipping town.

YOu are so incredibly right about his, Incog.
I agree 1000% that there MUST have been at least one scum on the VP wagon.
Porkens is obv-NOT MAFIA. Maybe 3rd party, but prob-town.
Zilla as scum? Seems too risky to CC Vp. I doubt it.
Incog seems obvtown these last 2 pages.
so, in my mind, Llama, KMD, and Myko at least one scum.

If we believe KMD and Llama for now.. that brings us back to Myko. What can I see on him? my notes:

His play re: afatchic was suspect, as I stated yesterday.
He did defend Porkens from Zazie.. which I like... but now is calling him a SK. which is it?
His POST 71 was a little IIoA, it think...
Why is he asking if the setup was reviewed?
Plus, as Incog noted:

plus that it is pretty useless to think this way, your chances of finding scum haven't improved, and you are more likely to miss things because you dismiss some players.

This DOES look like he is PETRIFIED of using wagon analysis to catch scum!

Hmm.
I could go for a Myko lynch.

[camn]

Well, that was fast.

I'll add some weight to it.

UNVOTE
Vote Mykonian

[camn]

Camn, what is your opinion about massclaiming and Llama's claim?

I believe it... for now. I certainly think we have other people to look at.. which means llama gets to live another night.
Of course, just cuz I believe it doesn't mean I think he picked a townie to use it on.

Re: massclaim, as I said in 585 .. i think enough people have already claimed that there could be some benefit, with not TOO much risk...... BUT that I have a bad taste in my mouth from losing a game recently where we spent too much time on roles and setups.

[camn]

Myko.. make more sense.
What exactly about post 627 is confusing to you?

@ Incog.. knowing Porkens.. I could see that TOTALLY being his play.
But I don't think it IS.
In either case, he fits into the deal-with-tomorrow category to me.

[camn]

Given that it WAS reviewed, what is your contention?

[camn]

You are at L-2 with Incog breathing down your throat.

You should proably be paying more attention to your defense than speculating on Setup.

BTW, What changed from yesterday to today? it seems yesterday you were thinking Porkens was pretty town.

remember?

Porkens

obv town, shot a scum pr, started well

[camn]

Well, now we need to know.

Myko....What does being Targeted by Llama have to do with your opinion on Porkens?

[camn]

plus, for the sake of argument, lets assume Llamafluff IS telling the truth.

Myko...how on earth does any of this make you TOWN?

[camn]

Another thing I find interesting is how Camn is only getting mentioned breifly. No one aside from me is voting her or even considering it as far as I know. And I've seen her name thrown around as suspicious. I think her scumbuddy is probably pushing Myko or Llama (if he's town) to distract us from Camn.

Are you saying that EVERYONE other than you are all scumbuddies with me? Maybe you should consider that, for the first time since Tranquility, we are both town?
What about your roleblocker? Did you ever address Incog's questions about the "evil" flavor?

[camn]

WHAT IS SA???

[camn]

You haven't been paying attention.

Yes I have! I understood all your DESCRIPTIONS of it.. but you were withholding the NAME! Thank you, porkens.

@ Incog.. I

was

convinced of KMD's guilt during the night phase..... but his "I'm dense" defense seems sincere.... I am now thinking maybe I just WANT him to be scum really bad! Because the gods of serendipity would be pleased if I got to nk kmd, vig kmd, AND lynch kmd.... all in revenge! You remember how happy I was that he was scum in Medieval! So I am checking myself for now.


@Myko.. we are assuming you are scum, which is why it makes sense to lynch you.
Now...Could you clarify your position on Porkens, again? Is he a SK, or is he a town Vig?

[camn]

Actually, I still don't understand a word he is saying! (and I was paraphrasing! I know you aren't dense!)

Myko.. I

do believe

that Llama targeted you. I just

don't believe

that you are TOWN because of it.
Your play today just stinks to me of a Mafia member who was happy that they now had a nice, safe town-claim...... but you failed to think it through.

And re: us benefiting.....!
Say you ARE scum.. and ARE a 1-shot doc.
You could either..
1) target your buddy.
2) target someone that you AREN't going to kill.
or
3) target someone you ARE going to kill, thus "clearing" you for the rest of the game.

None of these options help us.

And still, here you are with Porkens again!

It is however wrong to dismiss porkens from all thinking. Because he hasn't been that protown.

I see porkens as perhaps the strongest PR town has.

WHICH IS IT??

[camn]

please find for me where

I

claimed to be town because of what Llama did.

why would scum claim what I did.

So tomorrow, I have to claim blocked if I'm scum or not.

Why?
If you are town.. and your AREN'T blocked.. why would you have to CLAIM blocked?
Only Scum would claim blocked if it weren't true, right? And setting it up so that you can claim that regardless.. a little suspect, IMO

[camn]

But it moved onto another Townie.....!

[camn]

EBWOP..

for clarity... that means :
I still don't get it, LF.

[camn]

because of the simple reason that with a scum rb, they are going to use it on me, to make sure they hit with their NK.

Are you saying Zilla is lying? Because with this reasoning, if there is even a scum RB... why didn't they Block Zilla

last night

?

YOu must either believe that Zilla is a liar, or that the RB is actually town, right?

It seems to me that if you believe Zilla, which you seem to.. and you believe that there IS a scum-RB, which you have stated.. then the above statement is a simply desperate attempt to live another night.

Why would you be so desperate to live? I think because you are a

scum

-powerrole, and want to use it one more time..

[camn]

myko, I am a rational woman... I can be convinced. You just arent doing it.

Have you had enough time to think about your logical inconsistencies yet?

[camn]

THATS your defense?

[camn]

So, KMD.. I was analyzing your posts, to confirm or deny your contention.. and I ask you.. were you SECRETLY suspecting me before THIS POST (287) ?? Cuz if not.. I would say Point: Zilla.

Zilla has a scum theory for 7 people. Discounting herself, and afatchic, and Porkens, that leaves us with camn. camn just moved up in scumminess.

Lynch Zilla.

Hmm. Good point here. I personally see Camn as town other than this, but if Zilla flips scum, I'll look closer.

[camn]

Sorry I have let today get ahead of me.
Here is where I straighteb out my head. And yours.

The Living:

1.Kmd4390

I still think he of all people should have caught on to what VP was doing. But Meh. Special circumstance.
His "Confidence" that I am scum seems a little false to me. I feel like he is playing to his OWN town meta, but not convincingly.
The fact that he was seemingly UNAWARE that he had softclaimed is almost insane... and his obsession with SA is equally nuts. Spyrex plays there, right? so obv there would be some crossover.
Also, throughout today he has never wavered at saying that I, CAMN, am obv-scum, and that he is convinced of it. Yet he has BARELY pushed a case of any kind. Once again, it feels like he is imitating his own town-meta.
Prob-scum.

4.LlamaFluff

I believe his claim. . . until we get info on Myko.. then I want to re-evaluate him. Terrible lynch today.. prob-town.

5.Porkens

Obv-town.

7.camn

Obv-town.

8.Mykonian

Obv-scum.
his logical inconsistencies are too incredible.
I think he is scum, and Llama gave him a 1-shot Doc power, and he thought that that was going to give him a free pass.

9.Charter

He, IMO, is playing typical charter. Alternating between lurking, arrogance, and tunnel vision.. he is just as scummy as ever. However, I have been wrong about him too many times. . .i am desensitized. I would support his lynch, mostly because I think he would fail in endgame, if he turns out to be town.

10.Incognito

Day one I thought he was suspect, but he has come around to the Incog I know. Prob-town.

11.Zilla

This is difficult. I think town... but I need this question answered..
Did Llama-fluff give Zilla her ability?
I know I am role-speculating too much, but I wonder about it.
If she was granted 1-Doc by Spyrex. . then I think Obv-town.
If by Llama.. then Prob-town.

THUS, I believe the final 2 scum are KMD and Myko.
Of course, even

I

, camn, have been known to be wrong.

[camn]

You think Llama has the ability to give protections out both during the day AND night?

I was thinking a N0, maybe? But he denies it.
Which, given Myko is telling the truth about Llama, practically confirms her! Unless she is a scum-doc?? Oh, my head. I need a drink.

Would I really defend my buddy near a lynch?
Come on. That's insulting. XD

Why not? Vintage WIFOM

[camn]

I have no info as to N0.. but I don't need to guess.
Llama denies any involvement.
And don't facepalm ME, sir!

And NOTHING is wrong with WIFOM! Thats why I wouldn't put it past you!

[camn]

what do you mean?

I was thinking if she was naturally assigned Doc, then she probably isn't scum.. but if she was Llama-assigned doc.. she may or may not be?

[camn]

Of course, SINCE then.. I have been thinking about her being scum-doc to OFFSET Llama-docs....
and then my head explodes,
and I remember why setup speculation is stupid.

[camn]

I guess my question is more: what has happened that made you think zilla might have gotten her power from LF?

Mostly because I am not a big believer in coincidence?... and it occurred to me that Llama hadn't specified if he had a pre-game choice or not.
Also, I am tossing around the idea that Myko is totally scum, and Llama's ability had some TOTALLY different effect, which Myko is lying about, by copping Zilla's claim. Like maybe it made him Investigation-Immune or something that he CAN'T claim.,.....
FOr instance, all this talk about the REASON for zilla being a 1-shot.. how it is tied into Llama somehow.. it just sounds too thought-out to me. Like him and his buddy though it up last night.

But seriously..I am even annoying MYSELF with all this setup-talk!

[camn]

Camn, it sounds like your fishing to find out if Zilla is a 1shot lor not.

I'm fine with dropping it for now.

But... she CLAIMED one-shot!
You really are phoning it in, aren't you?

[camn]

charter... Why the sudden hammer??

[camn]

Um.. I am totally with Llama on this.

Zilla, did you get blocked?
No need to speak as to your target.. though I don't see the harm in it.

[camn]

Hm. I wrote this before KMD's claim (my internet was wonky..).. but I don't believe it anyway.. so it still applies? I will edit it to try and accomodate this absurd claim.

First off, I support Nolynch.. and massclaim.
I am a dumb peasant as well.

Second.. I think Llama is pretty solid town, but I agree that Porkens was a poor choice. Regardless, I don't see how he could have gotten Myko to play along as scum.. so that is that.

Third.. What do we think about Zilla as scum-doc? In fact, a Zilla-scumdoc and KMD-scum Roleblocker would totally explain all the nonsense.

This line especially tickles me:

Well, it wouldn't be very smart for scum to

waste

a RB N1. I just don't see it. And you claimed one-shot.

What does that mean.. "waste" a RB? Like, maybe it is a limited-use thing? How would KMD even know that?

I am thinking Zilla is a 1-shot scum doc, and KMD is a 1-shot scum RB.
Balance wise, combined with the governor, this would seem to offset the Porkens Dayvig, and the Llama-inventor.... though I think I would expect another town PR, Llama's existence does explain the abnormally large amount of Vanillas, I think.

Hmm.

This could be. Or it could be KMD and Charter/Incog, and Zilla could be telling the truth.
KMD seems to have been pushing pretty hard the idea that since he was ALLEGEDLY roleblocked, he must be town. If he actually IS the roleblocker, then he could suspect that he wouldn't end up with a REAL roleblocker countering his claim of being blocked, right?
He could have easily pulled all that SA nonsense out of thin air, knowing about the Spyrex-SA connection.. . and maybe his plan ALL ALONG was to use his RB on someone who would confirm the "flavor"! Llama is just inadvertently helping him!

Either way, this all seems KMD-Scumerific to me.

------------------------------------------

NOW.. In light of this claim?
KMD is totally scum. He tried to kill me. He is no JOAT.. he is simply scum.

VOTE KMD

[camn]

I just cant get around the fact that Myko got targeted!
How does it fit in?

And

unvote

I was being a little emotional maybe.
Kmd-scum couldnt have failed to kill me since Plum got killed that night.
Thus i must accept KMD-town....

[camn]

i am having real trouble with the idea of KMD being a JOAT... And Llama being a JOAT-assigner? All in the same game and them being on the same team?!

So maybe one of them IS scum?!

I would guess KMD, personally!

[camn]

and whats wrong with voting Charter?
He DOES need to get back in the game.

[camn]

maybe i dont get it... But they seem very similar, no?
Maybe thats intentional.

If so, then the scum is Charter and Incog, right!?

[camn]

Jesus.

Is EVERY claim totally unbelievable in this game!?!
I don't even think Zilla is a Doc any more.

I certainly support a Charter lynch more than a Llamafluff one, though.
The quickhammer, general lurkiness... all of it.

I don't want to rush, but as it sits now.. you can count on my vote.

[camn]

No.
I dont like them

Vote: Charter

I don't think we need to wait.
I believe Zilla.
Charter has been useless lately anyway.
And is always prob-scum in my book.

[camn]

I wish I had half an idea what you guys are all talking about?

I agree that charter slipped, though! Which makes me all the more happy with my vote.
If he has info the town needs, and is town, he should tell us now.
If not, he should die.

That is all!
And KMD.. if I was partners with a scum-charter.. I would have bussed him RELENTLESSLY from the get go!!!

[camn]

incog... I think zilla is town.

I think i will reread Kmd tonight, and you should reread llama.
Then tomorrow we can bring some old-fashioned vanilla arguments to the table, since these guys are so PowerRole crazy!

[camn]

shh. Dont tell! Its obvious, kmd!!

[camn]

Kmd targets Camn - Successful. Result: Killed.
Camn targets Kmd - Successful. Result: Killed.

HA HA HA HA!!!!

Can we have a truce now?
I intentionally didn't kill you earlier on!

our QT:
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/3ScbnqCGr5S

we also considered No-killing to fool the town into thinking there was only one scumgroup!

[camn]

I tried to kill you Night 1. Your scumbuddy blocked me though. XD

No truce until I catch up. 3-1.

A) I suggested it..
and
b) YOU DESERVED EVERY KILL! PLUS, You flipped scum TWICE!
so really... it was just ONCE that I grudge-killed you.. and you deserved it!~
c) I can't believe you slipped through my fingers after VP died. YOu were so scum. Nice breadcrumb... Thats the only thing that saved you.

[camn]

PS.. we still have yet to be on the same team (and alive) since Tranquility.

[camn]

incog... I think zilla is town.

I think i will reread Kmd tonight, and you should reread llama.
Then tomorrow we can bring some old-fashioned vanilla arguments to the table, since these guys are so PowerRole crazy!

PS. A fun detail....

When I posted this, I was pretty convinced that Incog was the OTHER scum... and I was trying to direct his kill.

I was hoping for a me/incog-scum/Zilla engame, where I would try and get incog lynched, but could always fall back on the old obliteration draw.......

Too bad KMD tricked me!

[camn]

lol. What made you think I was the other scum?

And if I WAS scum, do you really think you'd be able to convince Zilla to lynch me over you?

I bought KMD's claim! And you were the last one.
And yes, I DID think that!

Though I certainly was willing to claim scum, and settle with you for a Zilla-lynch and a draw.

[camn]

I had some things up my sleeve!

I def thought a mutual destruction-draw at worst......which would have been interesting all on its own!

[camn]

I WAS shooting for town.

I thought it was unwinnable with a single scum in endgame!
You might have been able to do it, but not me, given my lack of a fake-claim.