Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia. Game over!
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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/confirmI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Porkens summary - vote spring, rant, unvote vote Spyrex. Were you afraid of sticking to the Spring wagon for some reason? Random bandwagoning is a pretty good way to get a game going. I don't know why you would then switch to Spyrex without a given reason if you are trying to get out of the random stage. Basically looked like a spaz followed by a random vote anyhow.
Coincidentally, my vote is also going on Spyrex, but for reason.
vote Spyrexfor already attempting to plant the seeds into the town's mind to keep the day shorter. If stated later, it might garner more attention from someone who decides that Spyrex is "trying to end discussion". Given early in the 'rvs' it is far more likely to go under the radar, yet still accomplish the purpose of putting into the back of towns mind that we don't want to the game to drag on.
I'm aware of the balance between content and fading attention spans, so on the surface it could just be an upfront opinion stated by Spyrex giving his view on excessive days. But...I look at effect, and the lack of surrounding context for the volunteering of that opinion, and don't approve of what I think it does, particularly if he tries to curtail talk later, because then the subject has already been broached, and by him, making it easier for him to head off discussion heading in the wrong direction (for him) because he can refer back to this statement about his aversion to month long day 1's.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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You certainly voted for Spring, putting you at least temporarily on that wagon. At least long enough for that round about you were having with yourself. You appeared to be making the point that a 3rd vote on Spring really didn't mean all that much and it was fine for it to stay there. You were right.
This is why I assumed you were trying to get out of the random voting stage, and the vote on Spring was a good step in that direction. You dropped that random vote on Spyrex though, seemingly abandoning what looked like a perfectly fine move. So, why you abandoned it is confusing to me. All that just to go to a random vote? Makes no sense, so I have to wonder why, and the main thing that sticks out is that you didn't actually want to vote for Spring for some reason.MY MASTER GAMBIT PLAN WORKED NOW WE HAVE NO RVSI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Your re-written quote is cute, I must admit. The difference of course is that I didn't make such an opinion out of the blue in the RVS stage. Had you been Spyrex altering that quote, I would label it OMGUS. I guess you are OMGUS by proxyI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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When playing, I assume that people do things for a reason. Sometimes they don't realize they are doing it, or don't realize that their motivations are showing. Two of you had interesting inputs, and both have possibly shady origins. Certainly either could be innocent comments, and that should be explored, but right now, I think having 2 avenues for discussion is certainly better than an RVS.
Fixt.The only thing that gives me pause at all is why the hell would Ecto be so transparently aggressive before the end of page one?
I've tried not being aggressive. It has never lasted very long other than right after I got out of the hospital.
Spyrex, there are 2 issues I have with your statement.
First, it was a bit out of the blue. Maybe a humorous first post, sure, but an interesting topic to just start out with nonetheless. You chose the topic on purpose. Why you did, I don't really know, but it caught my attention.
Secondly, when I first read it, I thought you said 36 pages. Had you saidthatI probably would have left it alone because 36 pages in a 12 player mini would be a huge chunk of text. But I went back and you didn't. You specifically mentioneddays, and in forum mafia where some people only get in to post every 2-3 days, they may only have 10-15 posts total for the span of that day. You know as well as I do that some go even longer than 3 days, and pop in with an "I'm here."
Also, by putting a time restriction instead of a size restriction on when you think the day has gone long enough, all you have to do as a scum team to restrict information is to slow post (you don't actually have to lurk, just wait an extra day to respond). Some wishy washy foot dragging tossed in, and it wouldn't be hard for you to get to that 30 day mark and start pressing to get the day over with.
So your phrasing and that it was unprompted puts you up there as my first suspicious player.
Porkens is 2nd, not for the weird, I can handle weird. But going through a dialogue to basically say that a 3rd vote on Spring isn't scummy, but then unvoting and tossing a random vote instead has me wondering why he didn't stay on Spring, and if he wasn't, why go through the rigamarole of demonstrating that to do so was a null tell?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Heh, it was humorous. The question to me is, what else did you do? The actual votes on Spring and the subsequent random(?) vote on Spyrex are also there. Those are actions to me, not part of the humor. I'm looking at what was actually accomplished there. I'm a little surprised that your return was that it was all humor. That was all you meant to accomplish is a bit of fun? If so, wouldn't it have been just as fun to leave your vote on Spring? So...whydidn'tyou leave it there?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Touche'I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Bah, forgot to unvote. I concede to Artem's point.
unvote
Leads me to my 2nd oddity.
vote PorkensI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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1: I think I did this last game we were in. Seriously too tedious for me to go through again. I haven't played in 2 months now.
2: This one
3: People who pop in every 4 days with 1 liners.
4: Adel, Springlullaby, Zorblag, spyrex. I think.
5: none
6: noneI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Quite a few questions Adel, what is the town supposed to get out of it other than indulging your own curiosity (or maybe you are building umpteen info status charts).
Are we supposed to get short term benefits for the questions (I do fail to see the point). If not, do we need to wait before you give a summary with conclusions?
Do you think it distracts from the current building bandwagons? Could this have waited until later? It seems more like a technique for when the game slows down, so I dont see that reasoning. If it was simply to stir discussion, without any other real reason behind it, don't you think it is actually a distraction for the current thread?
Judgement call good or bad? Distracting from a Porkens wagon that seems to be building would be what I consider poor play (save it till later when things stall). I know you like to have at least 2 competing bandwagons, but how is that going to accomplish it?
P.S. - I think I left off Artem (and maybe VI). My memory isn't the best...I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Am I dead?Vi wrote:Ectomancer 41 wrote:
VI
Daykill: Ectomancer
Also, the only game I've been in with you was Meerkat Manor, my second onsite.
And immediately voted for my second oddity, Porkens. I dont see the point of or like this snide comment, esprecially when it didn't actually answer the question.Adel wrote:Quote:
Do you think it distracts from the current building bandwagons?
says the person that unvoted SpyreX .
@Adel - You're attitude regarding the answers to your questions is abrasive, and not what I've experienced from you. In fact, it sounds like when Ectomancer is being an arrogant jerk. You do know we could have simply refused to answer right? I answered simply because I didn't have to do any research, but if I had been forced to work for your answers, you probably wouldn't have gotten them. Stop ragging on those who didn't answer them all.
@everyone - I really don't care what your preference is for posting methods. Quit muddying the waters with your opinionated meta gamestyle crap.
A joke is an effective method of deflecting from a player real attack. Both the beginning and the end are not jokes. He chose those 2 players for reason. The question is, why did he abandon the first (after explaining why it was a null tell vite), It demands questions, I didnt read it as simply a joke. Im always reading between the lines behind the joke.Vi wrote:In addition, I dislike the excuse "I thought we were still in the RVS" on principle. There was already quite a bit of nonrandom discussion going on, and your second "random" vote was rather unnecessary.
Exactly. When material is present and you insist on your "random" vote, all you are doing is avoiding commenting on the current situation, which is either scummy, lazy, inattentive, or clinging to this obesssive need to 'get in your random vote'.
This is ridiculous. I thought maybe you posted early before things got going, but no, there was all type of discussion going on. You're either lurking or afraid to take a position.populartajo wrote:
I have my reasons for that vote. The weak tells I always vote for in RVS. And when I voted Herodotus I was still in RVS.Vi wrote:Elmo has only posted once, and that contained what I would presume is his random vote (he's welcome to explain it when he comes back). You (tajo), on the other hand, NONrandomly voted away from springlullaby for no reason I could discern. I would expect a change of vote to have some reason behind it. You didn't provide one, etc.
In addition, I dislike the excuse "I thought we were still in the RVS" on principle. There was already quite a bit of nonrandom discussion going on, and your second "random" vote was rather unnecessary.
Im indeed actually there. With my reread tonight I will finally get out of it.
Ummm yeah. You want meta, find meta. Demanding the names of alts and saying it is counter to the win condition in this game is not how I view it. Maybe you should make an MD poll and see how others feel about it. I suspect you will be in a very small majority.populartajo 78 wrote:
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Identification of your alts help me lynch you if you are scum, and establish your innocence if you are town. To not reveal your alts in this gave runs counter to the townie win-condition in this game
WTF? I have some alts, Im not going to reveleate them here. There is a purpose for having alts, you know?
I agree with the alpaca on this point.
I know this is a nomination game, but I didn't know we needed to send in a resumé to play or be read "properly"
Agreed. I see no point in Adel waiting until last, or arguing about it. (how I see it)populartajo wrote:
If I had the time, I would do it, Adel.Adel wrote:I don't feel like wasting more time arguing this with you tajo. I'll just do it myself.
I would like you to answer all your questions also.
Really necessary?Adel wrote:
Vi may be an apt name for you after all..Vi wrote:If you really want to stalk everyone, you can use the Search function to find the topics someone's posted in (conveniently giving you a list!) within about forty seconds.
This is getting old and distractng. I think at this point I intend to lynch the most annoying. Too much bickering and very little scum related activity. Yuo can make a freaking case in 30 seconds. It doesnt even matter who they are.
You scared to have it examined? What;s to hide? Explain yoursef, unless you cant, and well....I guess you better head off an investigation,
I ceretainly do. I do think there are times when you might reveal it, but that's not before your weed is ready for harvest. Before that, you are just going to get crap and have wasted your timeVi wrote:@Artem:OMG KITTENDo you think it defeats the purpose of wagoning someone for reactions if you tell everyone that's what you're doing?
Porkens 93 wrote:This is off-putting, to me. I understand that you've stated you'll reveal your reasons later, but this is starting to feel like you're just kicking up sand for the fun of it.
SpyreX wrote: I have to chime in though about Porkens and his "reactions" post. Clarify me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the purpose of that was reactions at all. It was a joke, a satire on some of the amazing that I know we've ALL seen in early day 1.
So, I dont get it.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Arg, website double posted an epic novel quote...
Deleted one of them for you.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Meh, it is an interpretation open to individual experiences. My experience tells me that the manner in which he did it has something wrong with it. Why didn't he stay on Spring? You say it was part of the joke, which is certainly what he would like us to believe (and reason that you are parroting). I don't agree with your interpretation.SpyreX wrote:It is simply null. A joke.
I'm really having a hard time figuring out your reactions and cause and effect with two of your major talking points thus far.
Let's put it another way. Why, in the random stage, would he pick someone to make a "joke" vote and then move offafter making a valid reason for it, which really makes itnota random vote at all. Lots of people make joke votes on someone during RVS, and usually,they leave them there temporarily because everyone knows its a joke vote.Worse, if he had left it there, it would have been a 3 vote wagon, not a bad game launching point (we do want out of RVS).
Instead, he voted Spyrex. (randomly)
Also, I'm not saying this lumps you in with Porkens (necessarily), but now the guy most defending him is you, Spyrex.
I'm not entirely convinced on this, and I don't think I will be able to convince you either. I'll put it in my file cabinet, and if a slightly larger minority is convinced that you could be right, I'll remove the vote. Right now though, I'm going with my gut that people are much more likely to make slipups in the first couple pages, rather than later after they feel the need to really keep their guard up.
Let me point out just another personality quirk involved there. He removed it so that other people would know it was a joke. Ok, so what if he didn't and people started pressing him over it. So what? RVS would have ended (he in fact during his joke said "no more RVS hahmuhaha" or whatever)
So what we have in reality is a player who wanted to make a joke, but lacked the gumption to stick his neck out and take some pressure to get the game started.
My playstyle may be different, but people who appear to be afraid to stick their neck out concerns me.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Sorry, not sure I covered this. A Porkens pairing with either of you has very little support and 'testing' either on that basis would be stupid. It's the perceived reluctance to actually stick his neck out that concerns me. "Oh it was all a joke hahah!"Short of some kind of "Porkens AND spring are scum and Porkens pulled the noobiest gambit trying to burn deflection away from a wagon that had no basis but somehow would get pushed to lynch in this setup because everyone else is sheeple" I do not get any scum (nor town) motivation for the joke.
Alrighty then Mr. Reluctant...I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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EctoTroll realizes he is beating this horse into glue. Porkens will simply exist on my 'probably not town' list.
unvote
Porkens wrote:
I think so. There were plenty of things to comment on, why did you feel that it was right to simply place a "random" vote? Wouldn't it have been better to comment on the issues concerning the game at that point?populartajo wrote:
There is a problem with that?Porkens wrote: The worst part of all this is that it's taking focus away from the problem with Tajo's late "random" voteI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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EctoTroll realizes he is beating this horse into glue. Porkens will simply exist on my 'probably not town' list.
unvote
EctoTroll remember mention this one time before. Tajo also avoid answer stuff. He worse than Porkens. People agree with Porkens. Me think Tajo has no ground under his clubfeet.Porkens wrote:
I think so. There were plenty of things to comment on, why did you feel that it was right to simply place a "random" vote? Wouldn't it have been better to comment on the issues concerning the game at that point?populartajo wrote:
There is a problem with that?Porkens wrote: The worst part of all this is that it's taking focus away from the problem with Tajo's late "random" vote
vote TajoI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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This post deleted by request.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Oh man, I just realized that I would probably be ushered out the door with a pitchfork if I tried to join {BAM}I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ok, I'm going to go back though some of the posts I (cant find the word, but lets just say heavily medicated (as prescribed).
Wow, my post 102 had a huge number of quote tag and missing player identity tags to be able to read very coherently. Some good points in there though. Do me a favor and make an effort to go back and decipher it. (sorry for the inconvience) I know some of the fuzzy sections are because the person I quoted didnt name the person they quoted and were responding to.
One line in particular I do want brought to legibility is this one:
I believe that he was actually just talking about people who just place a vote and nothing else (another topic I have to talk about grrr)Vi wrote:@Artem: OMG KITTEN Do you think it defeats the purpose of wagoning someone for reactions if you tell everyone that's what you're doing?
Getting back to point. Both Spyrex (until pointed out I was a slacker) and Porkens really gave me good material to work with. There are players who understand that first rule of getting out of the f*cking rvs stage is just jump on somebody. Seriously, I hate it. If nothing else just pile on to a bandwagon until someone screams "oh god stop! think of the baby seals!.
The second rule, and this is where many fail, is that you've got to keep nagging at that one little point until you get someone else to say something stupid or suspicious. Here's the real rule.never say you did it to start the game before something else has actually arrived to talk about. Otherwise, you didnt do anything but waste space.
@Korts - I liked many of your assessments. There were a couple worth investigating. Which do you plan to pursue and are you going to be aggressive enough to push it forward through the rest of the clamor? Or do you think they were simply woth mentioning.
This is more of a meta statement than this in game statement. I believe that I was influenced by your own recent decision and this seemed the place where I have people who I have spent years playing a wonderful verbal interactive social game. (I doubd I'll ever post it in MD or GD though) I think some of the variations in my playstyle have been due to the changing prescriptions and really crazy side effects some of them had. Seriously physical stuff like you cant stop moving your arms and legs and flexing your back. Enough of that.Adel wrote:
Which posts in this game contain the oddness you hope to explain? I'll looking for an answer that includes post numbers.Ectomancer wrote: Anyhow, thanks for listening. I hope it helps to explain some of my oddness.
@Porkens - Yes, it wasn't a sympathy play, that's why a prefaced with OOC (Out of character). I know some people have personas (hi there Troll) I guess I'm just trying to explain why sometimes I just cant deal with things and why I can come off as curt or abrasive.
Troll made a good post.
Thanks Elmo. Those comments really do help.
Umm that it. My vote is staying because I must have had a good reason.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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This made me choke on my doughnutAdel wrote:
ah, so if there was another player with activity as low as ecto's (or lower) you would not excuse that?Herodotus wrote:The reason I'm excusing Elmo (temporarily) is because Elmo warned us before the game that they might have to lurk due to RL factors. Otherwise, I might have voted Elmo in my last post.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Adel wrote:
not very pro-townPorkens wrote:
/Adel wrote:
ah, so if there was another player with activity as low as ecto's (or lower) you would not excuse that?Herodotus wrote:The reason I'm excusing Elmo (temporarily) is because Elmo warned us before the game that they might have to lurk due to RL factors. Otherwise, I might have voted Elmo in my last post.Akbar
(it's a TRAP!)
Seemed like white noise to me at the time too.
Adel wrote:
look at springlullby.Herodotus wrote:@Adel:
If there is another player in this game who has posted as much as or less than the amount Elmo had posted as of my post 122, then I must not have noticed them at all. There may be people actively lurking, but I have not yet put any effort into evaluating that.
But I'd think if there was a lurker, they would be a decent person to vote (unless they were about to be replaced for their inactivity.)
If you're referring to another game I've played, specify the player, and I'll explain why I didn't vote them.
this post is notable.Herodotus wrote:vote: Spring
There's something fishy about being 200% town...
it takes less time to check the activity of other players than it does to build a database of their previous games which are current enough to base a meta read upon.Herodotus wrote:Vote: Adel
You may be planning to contribute a lot soon, but so far you have not. You're "aware of the search function" but stated that the reason you insisted on everyone posting their own games was that you would "have to do all of the work myself" otherwise. It's about 20 seconds of work per player, that way. Not much more than finding their list within the thread.
unvote, vote: Herodotus
most likely partner: springlullby
second most likely partner: Porkens
Not to be offering Spring a break here, but it seems to me a lot of conversation has concerned her. (which in a bizarre way doesnt quite count as lurking) I could see the reason for just watching to see how all this plays out between the arguments going on.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Sooooo... is Artem scummy, or null, or what for doing basically that?[]quote]Vi wrote:@EctoTroll 108-112: So you say you have suspicion of Porkens (and to a lesser degree SpyreX) and are voting tajo. How strong is your suspicion of tajo? stronger than that of Porkens or anyone else?[]quote]
This was already answered in the original statement. You overlooked it. Toajo is worse than Porkens.
We all have opinionsVi wrote:
I... don't think so.Ectomancer 126 wrote:[about Artem 97:]I believe that he was actually just talking about people who just place a vote and nothing else (another topic I have to talk about grrr)Vi wrote:Ectomancer 126 wrote:Here's the real rule.never say you did it to start the game before something else has actually arrived to talk about.Otherwise, you didnt do anything but waste space.
This was entirely referencing my own method of choosing targets and not letting up until we have material. As far as te 3 go, Spyrex is a null, Porkens is +1 scum and Tajo is +2 scum.
-----I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I've got new meds. At the dose Im taking, I can barely read, its allfuxxy. I have lot of things to say stating about pagre 7, there are some things that need correctiung and I want to re0inforce/dispute the cases.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I'm in the hospital. Over a week, I'm real bad. I hurt myselfI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I'm hear! Please say im not replcade!
Cant say much right now because it is taking me 10-20 seconds to type out some worsd. I'll catch up as fast as U can and givr some commrntds sorry qabout the spelling errirs/. im tierd of correctingI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Scared? Sanity can blur your thinking.Vi wrote:
If this post is any semblance of what you're promising in the future, then I'm sorry, but you need at least temporary replacement.Ectomancer 318 wrote:I'm hear! Please say im not replcade!
Cant say much right now because it is taking me 10-20 seconds to type out some worsd. I'll catch up as fast as U can and givr some commrntds sorry qabout the spelling errirs/. im tierd of correctingI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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It's about time someone got on this bandwagon.Adel wrote:unvote, vote:populartajo
reason: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... opulartajo
he is actively posting in other games, joined a large game, and is actively lurking in this game.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Toss a Godfather into that equation and it might make more sense. Artme doesn't need to be a "must save" role. Elmo simplySpyreX wrote:
I've been playing around with this in my head as well (because it bugs the hell out of me).Korts wrote:I'm getting a scummy read off Elmo now. His defense of Artem is too strong for my liking.
I can't fathom that strong of a defense for a scum-buddy*. However I, independently, find Artem to be scummy as all getout. Which, well, bothers me. It is too transparent day 1 to tie yourself so close with minimal gain. Unless Elmo is scum AND Artem is town.
Yet, see Artem's play and I just dont get it.
* This assumes Artem is not one of the classic "must-save" scum roles (see recruiter, etc). If this is the case Elmo doesn't even get to defend themselves and go off the plank tomorrow.wantsa possible investigation tossed his way, and have the 3rd mafiaso (assuming standard role setup) to make the kill in case town has both tracker and cop.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Prolific is what you all have been. Its hard to catch up, but a couple guesses here. Scum is on one of the big wagons and its probably not a bus.SpyreX wrote:I'd like to see some real content from Ecto.
Scum has already squared up against a town member, and though wants to look "on the case", wont actually push theirs to a lynch to avoid the obvious
"who was involved in lynching town"/
That's vague, but what you get from a skim (and Im not done yet)I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Before I forget
unvote
vote Adel
All of the promises of graphs and analysis and what not has become her defensive mechanism to avoid dying day 1. People usually let her ride until Day 2 for her promised Holy Grail of Analytical scum, and to be quite honest, I've rarely found that they help me find scum, and I dont see where Adel's play has improved either. Adel deserves the hardcore pressure cooker.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ok, since this has become a topic (and partly due to the VLA thread in MD), I felt compelled to make a response. Yes I'm on heavy drugs that if taken at the dose I'm now on will knock your dick in the dirt.
I did quit playing mafia for 2 months and flaked on 4 games at once (still having problems spelling), I did not want to flake on the only one that I helped create.
Someone said I can't believe that I would take the time to make a post here. Back near when I first started, I had to sit with pillows propped to keep me upright so I wouldn't drown from the fluids caused by pneumonia (First time I though I was about to die within a day or two). I actually posted quite a bit there.
I'll say this, though my being tells me not to do it. Ectomancer is my persona nearly everywhere, and I would hate to have to retire him.
So please leave this in thread.I realize that by saying it, I no longer have control over the information, but I'll say it anyhow. I had pictures, but the doc through it would be detrimental to my situation. So....
Long story short (please don't ask questions about it, I'm not asking for, not do I want any help, I've got it
I took one of those orange box cutters from home depot or something where you just snap off the blade for a new one when the old one gets worn out and dull. I made 134 slashes and words between 2 and 14-15 inches across my chest and stomach and went through 5 of those snap off blades. I got interrupted or there would have been 500-1000 (depends on long the blades last).
So there you go. Mafia is therautic for me, so I do enjot playing, I just wish my damn fingers would remember where the latters on the keyboard are!!
Once again, leave it here please. If you want to meta me, know that I both start and drive games and I hate lurking as a tactic ti wiun,.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I hate demands like this. Even if I make them.populartajo wrote:Also, I would like that your provide a list with your thought of every player here.
Pairings on Day 1 is like the wagon leading the mule.Adel wrote:unvote, vote: Herodotus
he bailed on Atrem, and now is wagoning Tajo. I don't think that either of those players are scum.
If Herodotus is scum, I see Elmo as being his most likely buddy.
You are voting someone because they have voted people you don't think are scum. I'm not that medicated.
If you have something you can put together for those 2 people to be town enough to get someone else a vote, I'll give a listen, but I dont know how you could find those cases.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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a) I dont really care if you do or you dont. I'm taking my gut feeling in general on what I've seen from you.
b) what does that have to do with being allowed to skate through? See part c for the rest of this answer.
c) I believe that it was actually Springlullaby in a MD discussion (or echoing/agreeing with me) when we discussed players who are allowed to live simply by being prolific. (See your b for reference for your own style)
You simply have a different method of avoiding the Day 1 lynch, which are your charts and your graphs (which you actually usually have to your credit)
Names, please.Vi wrote:Ectomancer 374 wrote:Prolific is what you all have been. Its hard to catch up, but a couple guesses here. Scum is on one of the big wagons and its probably not a bus.
Scum has already squared up against a town member, and though wants to look "on the case", wont actually push theirs to a lynch to avoid the obvious
"who was involved in lynching town"/
That's vague, but what you get from a skim (and Im not done yet)
Don't hold your breath there chief. This is an analysis of a snapshot in time (just stating it changes the situation as you know) and as I've stated, it hadn't been easy to catch up. So, instead of just shooting off a one-liner asking others to go back and work, you could be just a bit clearer about exactly what it is you want? Lets see. Do we want those who have been prolific, which wagon has the scum on it,or maybe you want the specific scum. Are you looking for the scum that has already squared up against a town member (or maybe the name of the town member), but wont continue because they want to avoid being the guy drumming up the townie lynch? You want all of the above? Well take a look at the bandwagons that fit that criteria and let me know.
I'll tell you what this is best at. Some players use posts as notes to themselves (or others) in order to refer back to them when some actual concrete evidence arrives.
That post could be considered a filler post by some, but there's ore in there to be mined. I just dont know I'm quite ready to swing the pickaxe at that particular pile.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Hey Spyrex, its been 18 days, was it worth it, or should we have lynched already?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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This is exactly the type of drivel I've been referring to!springlullaby wrote: Adel - Scummy with promises of amend, I don't mind being patient a little longer for the delivery, but not too long.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I don't think that you could argue that I have a lack of experience. Anyhow, you are arguing over the wrong thing. If you do that all the time (promise charts and such and that isn't a lie), then it is a null tell because you do it whether you are town or scum. An argument over whether they work or not is for MD, not the game. So there should be no vote on you on that basis.Adel wrote:
like, it isn't based upon evidence or experience. I think it is a lie.Herodotus wrote:
I don't understand.Adel wrote:I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.
I told you I look for motivations over what people say, or even who they are sometimes. Porkens snap agreed and voted Adel even though there were 3 competing wagons at the time. If you have scum buddies in trouble, one way to help them out is spread the towns vote across as many busses as you can, hoping theirs will die.
So I'd like an explanation from Porkens concerning his vote following mine on Adel.
unvote
vote PorkensI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Quit nitpicking the damn point. SpringLullably just gave us exactly what I've been talking about. To be fair about the subject, I do the same thing. I find that by being an aggressor (but not a stupid one) early makes me live longer. You just found your own method for doing it andAdel wrote:
Ecto just went off on a tangent. Bold is what I was talking about.Adel wrote:
the portion in bold is nagging me... a) I usually replace into games, b) when I do play in day 1 I am usually confrontational and aggressive, c) I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.Ectomancer wrote:People usually let her ride until Day 2 for her promised Holy Grail of Analytical scum, and to be quite honest, I've rarely found that they help me find scum, and I dont see where Adel's play has improved either. Adel deserves the hardcore pressure cooker.
Name 1 example from your experience where people let me ride until day 2?I'm certain that people in this game know exactly what I mean, especially if they were commenting in the MD thread (which I conveniently have not located).I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Mine was very low as well with these two. Probably just not creating waves. I was going to complain about the relative uselessness of these graphs (for me anyhow), but I don't think this is insignificant.Elmo wrote:
Well hello there.SpyreX wrote:Herodotus Drop
Korts: 4
Zorblag: 6
Anyhow, why didst thou point out Hero's mentions on these two? It appears to be a general trend and not just a Hero thing.
So 2 things, we've got Korts and Troll keeping low profiles (or at least low enough that people aren't really talking about them much).
We've got Elmo picking out Hero's mention of 2 players from a field of daisies. Tunnelvision or impatience? Smells dirty.
Spyrex doesn't like long days, but is generating some of these long dull graphing posts. Negative emotion from me, however it is mitigated by the fact that I believe it generated 2 items worthy of note.
Porkens, I've noted that you are still waiting on 2 items from Adel. I don't recall you getting them, and I noticed he latched on to the graph thing. I realize he can't resist them, but still...
unvote
I don't like Elmo and I don't like Korts and I dislike the noise between them without much action.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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50k feet over your head. It was about opportunistic voters (in this case Porkens) should you take the time to read that section. Not meaning to be a jerk here, but I see no emoticon worthy of the attitude.Vi wrote:Ectomancer, if you're so worried about people letting Adel slide to D2, why are you doing essentially nothing about it?
Porkens is still awaiting Adel's answer to questions he asked previous to my impression that he jumped on spontaneously to my vote on Adel. Therefor, he got an unvote.
Sorry Elmo, I read the chart wrong anyhow. I hate charts. I do make an effort to see the rationale behind them, but I must admit a failing in this area.Elmo wrote:Ecto.. Herod is the person I'm most suspicious of, so I was curious to see if there was anyone he was staying away from. He talks about those twonotablyless than anyone apart from you, which is understandable since you've been absent for a bit. But Zorblag has been here all the time, and Korts has been since very early; and I suspect Korts and Zorblag independently, so it's very interesting that he's very quiet on the subject of both of them; there's a very definite reason for me pointing that out. And similar to what I said about tajo, I don't see why it would be tunnelling.
Vi, explain the connection to me slowly?
Herod: Why would you guess that as the plan?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Herod, if the plan is to get you into a dilemma at LYLO, then can you explain the wagon on you? Wouldn't scum like, not want you to get lynched? So is this a town wagon on you that has stalled, or what do you think is going on?
vote Herodbecause it seems that only town votes for him...I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I re-read him and also made a mistake there. He voted the very next post after I did, so I thought, Ahah! But he really was waiting on Adel (have we got that yet Porkens?)Elmo wrote:@Ecto: OK, 'tis cool What do you think of Porkens?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I'm not Adel. It may help him, but it sure as hell doesn't help me. In fact, it allows people to do what I call "muddying the waters" by debating endlessly over these charts. It actually makes it more difficult for me to sort out who is doing it, and who actually is making genuine commentary....and I tend to not read them properly either....Artem wrote:@Ecto:
You congratulated Adel in the game he cited. Here, you're saying that graphs and charts rarely help you find scum. Why does this raise an inconsistency flag for me?
Anyhow, Adel deserved the congratulations. I had already made up my mind that Korts was scum.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Forgot @Artem - if you take a quick look at my lead of the Darkdude lynch in the game you are referencing, you'll see one example of how I scumhunt. It isn't with chartsI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Hrm. I had a lengthy answer, but I'll just simply say, NO. Let people do what they are going to do.Herodotus wrote:
Wrong. I decided I preferred to have more time to decide about you before someone came along, voted you, and asked for a claim.Artem wrote:Well, then you unvoted me because you no longer found me suspicious, not because you didn't want a premature claim. Right?
I find this a dubious assertion as well. Has Adel done an analysis on how often good and which type of data comes from the charts and is generally reliable yet?Herodotus wrote:
I missed the part where you explained how using someone's name too many times made me a suspect. Frankly, I don't think you even believe that.SpyreX wrote:Does that change the fact that this behavior is suspect? No.
I think attacking the data because of a point you are making utilizing that data is valid. I also am well aware of being able to create charts that can say what you want it to say. (Just pick the right chart/data set) That makes the "It was to do one thing and one thing only" statement up for debate as well.SpyreX wrote:You keep, in essence, attacking the data. Under the guise of making it more accurate, sure - but pinpoint accuracy wasn't the purpose of it. It was to do one thing and one thing only.
I'm hanging my hat on this.SpyreX wrote:
Tonight? Ever?Herod wrote:Do you think the scum are going to even consider NKing me?
Well, no, but thats because I am thinkin' you be scum.
Still, the day-1 building on you being alive at LYLO is offputting.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Meh, I did. I thought it was around 4 votes, nowhere near the 7 needed. I only count when its getting close. Still, you think Herod would have noticed. Sometimes if you are scum and know you are going down, its better to say nothing if you are afraid it will give something away or you are wanting specific connection discussions to remain alive.Adel wrote:
YOU DON"T VOTE WITHOUT NOTING THE CURRENT VOTECOUNT!SpyreX wrote:For Real FOS?
Considering ohh, Herod himself, Artem, Ecto, Elmo and you posted almost a whole page without noticing too the "for real" makes little sense.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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You do know that Adel was actually 2 separate wagons right? I cranked it up again myself with what ended up being a resultless ploy, and then I ended up on the Hero wagon.
I think it should be delineated because it wasn't a linear wagon. Does that make sense?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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If I had a bullet and Hero flips town I'd shoot: Adel
If I had a bullet and Hero flips scum I'd shoot: AdelI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Seriously though, if town, I would shoot either Elmo or Tajo, probably tajo for convenient lurking.
If scum, I dont know. Porkens "mistaken" bus wouldnt make sense. Spyrex might have joined late though.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Charts must die OMGWTFBBQ!!Adel wrote:
WTF!Ectomancer wrote:If I had a bullet and Hero flips town I'd shoot: Adel
If I had a bullet and Hero flips scum I'd shoot: Adel
Talk about a no-win!
H-Scum: Porkens
H-Town: SpryeXI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I've never seen this many people involved in a rapid fire twilight session.
Can we track when the last time people logged in? Like to see if they avoid this? I know this would notify them, but at least it would force them to talk about this if they login and try to dodge it.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Phantom FishPorkens wrote:
In the PNW we call it patronizing.Adel wrote:
in the South people call this "slow-talking" -- getting people to underestimate your intelligence so that you can take advantage of their misconception.Porkens wrote:It doesn't, really. But I run on a dumber plane than most of you; Adel is on Hero's wagon and Artem isn't.
A man was stopped by a game-warden in Northern Algonquin Park recently with two buckets of fish leaving a lake well known for its fishing. The game warden asked the man, "Do you have a license to catch those fish?" The man replied to the game warden, "No, sir. These are my pet fish." "Pet fish?!" the warden replied. "Yes, sir. Every night I take these here fish down to the lake and let them swim around for a while. I whistle and they jump back into their buckets, and I take em home." "That's a bunch of hooey! Fish can't do that!" The man looked at the game warden for a moment, and then said, "Here, I'll show you. It really works." "O.K. I've GOT to see this!" The game warden was curious. The man poured the fish in to the river and stood and waited. After several minutes, the game warden turned to the man and said, "Well?" "Well, what?" the man responded. "When are you going to call them back?" the game warden prompted. "Call who back?" the man asked. "The FISH." "What fish?" the man asked. (Contributed by Frank Worm)I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Well alrighty then. G'night scummersI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Haha I was thinking the same thing about you! You've been pretty quiet, you want to set aside a (hard) soft claim and though puzzled about the dead, you don't talk about either of them, not even the one you are puzzled about.springlullaby wrote:So we have one dead roleblcoker and one vig claim. Hmm. Setting the matter aside for now.
I'm puzzled as to why Pop died.
Anyway, Vi needs more pressure.
Vote Vi
Case in the writing
Case in the writing means you're working something up I reckon. Don't take too long.
On Spyrex - events as put together by Elmo and the hints makes sense. This cant be called a pressure claim at all. Puts us in a difficult position towards LYLO, but I have difficulty believing this to be a Spyrex SK gambit. At least my own 1 disastrous attempt at SK would hampermefrom getting a nowhere near a Vig claim unless I had to.
I dont even recall a vote on me actually. Vi has given some smack talk but not much else and he just voted Adel in 589 (not L-4 though, do votes not reset each day?)DrippingGoofball wrote:I'm on page 6. Is there a reason why Ectomancer hadn't been lynched yet?
@DGB - how much stock do you place in your meta's and did you read Hero's statements re: Adel before you made these last statements supporting a pro-town Adel based upon meta?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I stirred this roadkill with myself until it was mummified. Knowing Korts I wouldn'tSpyreX wrote:Korts, if scum, replacing because of too many words WITH multiple suspects for the next day in twilight after a town kill makes my teeth itch. I dont get it.thinkhe would drop a scum role in that position, but I've had to drop scum roles I was happy about the state of because I was on my way to visit the hospital. Gut says prob-town unless some meta exists that would make it simply null. Can't PM probe him either about it so....I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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That's Hero (town) and Tajo (town) and Elmo wasn't the one accused of doing the buddying.DrippingGoofball wrote:@ Ectomancer - you're all over the place. I can't put my finger on it. You seem somewhat hesitant in your speech patterns. But again it's hard to put into words.
Easiest way to put it into words is with a vote. You never have to actually explain yourself unless pressed (which I would be more than likely to do, but then you wouldn't have to put effort into convincing me that you think I'm scum, just other people).
2nd part was did you read Hero's statement re: Adel before or after talking about your meta. The quote below makes me think you hadnt read it yet.DrippingGoofball wrote: I put minimal stock in my own metas. They're a starting point.
DrippingGoofball wrote:
Oi. That's scummy.Herodotus wrote:vote: populartajo
Aside from the lurking, he is buddying up to Elmo, both with his vote and in his stated analysis. His first vote was random, but his second has been in place since page 2, so at the least, he should be feeding the parking meter. Finally, his antagonism toward Adel has been giving me vibes of disingenuousness since it started (which was why I asked Adel about him earlier.)I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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This was a big honker of a post, but I agree with I think most of it. Spring seems to me to be playing unlike SL, not sure what that means. The activity has been lacking, but I didn't want to draw too much attention there because I was suspecting maybe an SL PR trying to hide.SpyreX wrote:God have I ever said how much I adore meta. MMMMmmmMMmmm
Time for some thinking out loud:
Are you ready for assumation bullet time attack? I sure am!Artem wrote: If I had a bullet and Hero flips town I'd shoot: Porkens or Ecto
If I had a bullet and Hero flips scum I'd shoot: Korts
So, I'm operating under the premise that if they are scummy enough to shoot, he'd damn well roleblock them.
Additionally, I have to operate under the premise that we're using some kind of NaR for roles.
So, from this: barring an actual SK or something nutso, Porkens/Ecto could NOT have performed the kill (whichever was targeted, but thats moot).
Thus, we put on our scum hat: you've got to send in a night kill. The mod, hopefully, has said you have to specify WHO is sending the kill (so the roleblocking is actually helpful). You don't necessarily know WHY, but you have to assume the chance of the naughty town roles (Tracker, Roleblocker, etc).
At this point, you'd probably want to send someone to perform the kill that was NOT going to draw said roles. An under the radar.
Both Porkens AND Ecto drew -some- flak throughout the day (from each other, oddly enough as well as others). The only ones, personally, I could see being higher profile would be: Adel & Myself (maaybe Elmo).
So, this makes the gut shriek the kill was performed by one of the lower profile players. Namely the grouping of Zorblag, Korts(DGB), Vi, Spring.
(Yes I realize this is modified by the existance of scum power roles vs goons, but)
Now, for the NK:
Tajo mentioned a few players but the focus of his hunting had a singular target: Adel.
I can't decide if this is an elaborate setup to get Adel mislynched or sooo obvious we go around the WIFOM horn 3 times.
On the other front of this, Tajo mentioned suspicion specifically of two other players: Zorblag and Spring. The zigzag attack to protect themselves for suspicion and setup an Adel mislynch? I can't decide.
In short:
Artem, Herod AND Tajo all being town has just made my brain collapse on itself.
Adel is Shrodingers scum at this point: I am now worrying that is a mislynch setup / obvscum move and every time I look a cat dies.
Zorblag / Spring strike me as highly likely candidates for scum who performed the kill.
Korts, if scum, replacing because of too many words WITH multiple suspects for the next day in twilight after a town kill makes my teeth itch. I dont get it.
Troll has been very neutral in my book in nearly every post. Could have been avoiding controversy on purpose, but who knows but Troll?
Porkens and Ecto both could have been trying to draw fire, and yes Adel, yourself, and Elmo was poking their necks out a bit.
Porkens I don't know much.
My meta on Ecto is that he is an attention whore.
Adel also has always been center ring in games in my experience.
Spyrex has never been scared to talk, and there is the Vig claim anyhow that takes him out of this.
People are really coming out of the woodwork to call Elmo town. Makes me more suspicious of those people than of Elmo.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Activity is playing a big role. While I've never seen her as a big aggressive player, most of her posts seem to be simply defense posts in response to votes or attacks on her, but she wasn't really going after anyone, making me wonder if she was trying to avoid the limelight. She may have been and could still have a good reason for it, so talk of pressuring her with votes is making me tense a bit, which is why I'd prefer we wait until she presents the case on Vi before thinking about a next move where SL is concerned.Elmo wrote:Ecto: That's interesting. What's different about Spring's play?
DGB: Why Porkens?
@DGB - Why Porkens and why SL? Where is Zorblag? A welcome post gets troll off list?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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<grabs some popcorn>I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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springlullaby wrote:
Why?Ectomancer wrote:<grabs some popcorn>Elmo wrote:springlullaby wrote:I'm going to engage Vi in a conversation*crowd goes wild*I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Elmo wrote:You know, if I were quite a different player with a cat avatar, I'd be bringing up a ball-kicking theory right about now. That'd be a most interesting idea.
Artem being dead left us with only 1 other cat avatar that I can see and that is me, so I was wondering what I was looking for, still thought you were looking for something, but now I see MBL with a kitty too, so...Elmo wrote:So it turns out that when I'm thinking out loud, it helps if I make it clear what I'm referencing in order to avoid funny looks. Bed now.
Anyhow, I don't know if it was an overnight kick or early pressure being brought on today on the less-than-involved after our roleblocker turned up dead and the theory arose that there was cover going on and therefore whomever sent in the kill was probably hiding in there somewhere.
It is weird that Spring has a good line going on Vi, but then tells Troll she didn't see it until after the vote? I think that supports your ball-kick idea somewhat. Do something and then find a reason for it after the fact?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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@Vi - Why wasn't it a good idea to push the wagon when myself and Porkens were pressuring Adel? (I know I already said why it wasn't, but was that your reason back then?)
Was there anything you considered that might be more important than pressuring Adel (again) this early in Day 2 given events and a claim?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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