Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia. Game over!

[Porkens]

/confirm

but seriously...

who

let all the biggest MS jerks into the game?

[Porkens]

vote: spring

You guys; "OH MY GOD PORKENZ 3RD VOTE WHI REAZONINGS?!"

Me; "I WUZ GETTIN REACTONS SCUM WOULDNT DO LYKE THAT!"

You guys; "VOTE PORKENS OBVSCUM WIFOM"

Me; "SORRY WASN"T READIG CAREFULLY, ILL REREAD LOTS OF HOMEWORKS SORRY"

Some of you guys; "YOU JUST JUMPIN ON PORKENZ CUZ HE EASY WAGON"

The rest of you guys; "NO U R SCUM FOR DEFENDIN"

Some of you guys, again; "UR BUSSING"

Me; "MY MASTER GAMBIT PLAN WORKED NOW WE HAVE NO RVS ROFL PROTOWN NOMINATE 4 SCUMMY PLOZX"

Whatever.

unvote

vote: SpyreX

[Porkens]

Porkens summary - vote spring, rant, unvote vote Spyrex. Were you afraid of sticking to the Spring wagon for some reason? Random bandwagoning is a pretty good way to get a game going. I don't know why you would then switch to Spyrex without a given reason if you are trying to get out of the random stage. Basically looked like a spaz followed by a random vote anyhow.

I was never really "on" the spring wagon, so I don't think it's fair to say I didn't

stick

to it.

I never meant to imply that I wanted to get out of the random stage.

I'm used to looking like a spaz...is that a scumtell?

fos Ectomancer

for already attempting to plant the seeds into the town's mind to keep the day longer. If stated later, it might garner more attention from someone who decides that Ectomancer is "trying to prolong discussion". Given early in the 'rvs' it is far more likely to go under the radar, yet still accomplish the purpose of putting into the back of towns mind that we want to the game to drag on.
I'm aware of the balance between content and fading attention spans, so on the surface it could just be an upfront opinion stated by Ectomancer giving his view on excessive days. But...I look at effect, and the lack of surrounding context for the volunteering of that opinion, and don't approve of what I think it does, particularly if he tries to encourage talk later, because then the subject has already been broached, and by him, making it easier for him to head off discussion heading in the wrong direction (for him) because he can refer back to this statement about his deep, throbbing passion to month long day 1's.

QFT.

[Porkens]

You certainly voted for Spring, putting you at least temporarily on that wagon. At least long enough for that round about you were having with yourself. You appeared to be making the point that a 3rd vote on Spring really didn't mean all that much and it was fine for it to stay there. You were right.

MY MASTER GAMBIT PLAN WORKED NOW WE HAVE NO RVS

This is why I assumed you were trying to get out of the random voting stage, and the vote on Spring was a good step in that direction. You dropped that random vote on Spyrex though, seemingly abandoning what looked like a perfectly fine move. So, why you abandoned it is confusing to me. All that just to go to a random vote? Makes no sense, so I have to wonder why, and the main thing that sticks out is that you didn't actually want to vote for Spring for some reason.

See, I knew you were going to say that! Yes, if spring had been at l-1 that would have been a hammer. So, in the most technical sense; yes I was on the wagon; fair enough.

The dialogue was supposed to be funny, and a satire of typical day 1 exchanges. Since everything was in quotes and caps and I was filling in everyone elses lines for them, I thought it would be obvious...?

[Porkens]

Long post; sorry - I usually get the chance to post in the evenings, so this happens sometimes.

Heh, it was humorous. The question to me is, what else did you do? The actual votes on Spring and the subsequent random(?) vote on Spyrex are also there. Those are actions to me, not part of the humor. I'm looking at what was actually accomplished there. I'm a little surprised that your return was that it was all humor. That was all you meant to accomplish is a bit of fun? If so, wouldn't it have been just as fun to leave your vote on Spring? So...why didn't you leave it there?

I guess my joke wasn't even a little transparent; I was just going for a general satire of the usual flow of day 1s. Someone puts a vote on someone that someone else takes exception to on principle, and before you know it it's the basis for the first lynch. No earth-shattering social commentary or anything, just pokin' fun at the general meta. The joke wouldn't have "worked" if I hadn't unvoted. The unvote was part of the joke.

The vote on SpyreX is tradition more than anything else. Not random, but not backed by anything. Then again, maybe you're right; as you said in post 25, perhaps I just don't realize my own reasons.

Porkens:
Was the point of your quote block in 21, particularly your fos on Ectomancer, sincere?

No but yes. The FOS was certainly not sincere; I just wanted to change as few words as possible but I didn't want to leave the word "vote" in the quote. I do, however, share with SpyreX a dislike of long day 1s, so to poke fun at the origional text was, in some ways, cathartic.

P.S. I love your vote on SpyreX

Porkens, given the cast of this game, I think we're all familiar with the cliche motions of Day 1. But it is these motions that typically generate content. As such, a third vote on spring would have been useful, even if it did lead to the typical scenario described by your self-dialogue.

The fact that you decided not to stick with the vote boggles me a little. So, I think we should kick off the typical flow of Day 1 from step 2 (the person who messed up on step 1): Vote: Porkens

I'm sure everyone is familiar with the typical motions, that's why I thought we could all have a chuckle together about it. Again, the unvote was necessary for the joke to 'work' (in my mind although it seems to have fallen completely flat anyway).

There's that word again though; "stick." To me, since both the vote and the unvote were in the same post...I mean, there was nothing in the interrim for me to consider. I would think that my intention to unvote from the moment I started typing would be obvious...

1. what games (with links) have you finished in the last 6 months?
2. what are your on-going games?
3. what is your personal definition of lurking?
4. of the players in this game, which players have you played with in the last six months?
5. what other names do you play mafia under here?
6. what other sites have you played at within the last six months?

1. You can click my wiki, it's quite comprehensive.
2. same.
3. reading a certain game but not contributing to it.
4. SpyreX, Herod, Vi, I think.
5. none
6. EpicMafia

I think Ecto is townish with his contribution so far and Spyrex comes off as weaker in the exchange, I don't think Ecto qualify as 'trying too hard', what he has said so far makes sense and I find the level of aggression to be adequate.

...

Atm, I think Porkens not keeping that third vote on is good bread.
Vote Porkens

Did someone say "trying to hard?" Or are you quoting yourself?

"keeping" or "sticking," this is starting to give me a twitch! And since you're the third person to say it, offering no new reason to vote me or addressing my explanation...

Unvote. Vote Springlullaby

..woah, wierd.

---

populartajo:

I'd also be interested in reading your answers to Zorblag's question in 45. It strikes me as odd that you've not commented on the going wagons or discussion, instead only placing a seemingly meaningless vote (which is SO 2 pages ago).

[Porkens]

P.S. I love your vote on SpyreX

Why do you love it?

It was, in like 8 words, funnier than my post.

here you go. "top of your head" (along with other answers like "most of them are on my wiki" that other players gave) is the kind of answer that dodges responsibility for omissions. It also means that I've wasted my time with you, since I'll have to do all of the work myself.

My wiki is up-to-date, carefully layed out, and has a full list of links to all the games I've played. I put a lot of care and attention into it. I don't feel compelled to copy/paste the wiki code and edit it for html when in

one

click you could see my entire history (and navigate it with a few more clicks). The work is done, go and enjoy it, or don't, if you feel it's a waste of your time.

I would like you to answer all your questions also.

I'll answer my questions last.

reading is teh win

This is off-putting, to me. I understand that you've stated you'll reveal your reasons later, but this is starting to feel like you're just kicking up sand for the fun of it. The worst part of all this is that it's taking focus away from the problem with Tajo's late "random" vote, and, for what it's worth, the wagon on me. So, actually, if I take a mental step back, it looks like you might be kicking up sand to change the course of the conversation.

[Porkens]

The worst part of all this is that it's taking focus away from the problem with Tajo's late "random" vote

There is a problem with that?

I think so. There were plenty of things to comment on, why did you feel that it was right to simply place a "random" vote? Wouldn't it have been better to comment on the issues concerning the game at that point?

The joke wouldn't have "worked" if I hadn't unvoted. The unvote was part of the joke.

This part is lost on me. Why the joke not have worked without the unvote?

If the mock discussion hadn't been sandwitched between the vote and unvote I felt it would have lacked context.

There's that word again though; "stick." To me, since both the vote and the unvote were in the same post...I mean, there was nothing in the interrim for me to consider. I would think that my intention to unvote from the moment I started typing would be obvious...

Alright, I'll rephrase: you've obviously thought about voting spring and that your vote would start to generate the typical content for Day 1. Having thought about it, why did you not go through with the vote?

Oh no; I didn't think about the merit of voting for Spring at all; I just saw that I could put

someone

at 3 votes and went from there. Like I said before; it was for the sake of the satire.

Of course the fact that you didn't go through with it makes you the guinea pig that we're riding on and not spring, so I'm not too heart-broken. Do you deserve to be lynched for your lack of vote (or lack of "sticking" to a vote, if you prefer) for spring? No. Do you deserve to have a wagon formed on you for the purposes of content generation? Heck yea. (though it seems that there are other candidates for competing wagons emerging)

I'm fine with this, of course.

Why do we need a consensus opinion on what lurking is? If you formalize it, that will allow players to look for ways to fall outside the imperfect formal definition while still lurking in practice. If they're called on it, they can just point to the consensus definition to excuse themselves.
But even if you don't formalize it (and I assume that you don't intend to) I'd rather the scum not know that certain townies will let them get away with certain things.

Wooo he's a smart one; QFT.

A joke is an effective method of deflecting from a player real attack. Both the beginning and the end are not jokes. He chose those 2 players for reason. The question is, why did he abandon the first (after explaining why it was a null tell vite), It demands questions, I didnt read it as simply a joke. Im always reading between the lines behind the joke.

I don't think there was anything to deflect. I did have reasons; Spring because that would be the third vote, and SpyreX becasue, well, I like voting for SpyreX (we're buddies so it's only natural).

Vote: Adel
You may be planning to contribute a lot soon, but so far you have not. You're "aware of the search function" but stated that the reason you insisted on everyone posting their own games was that you would "have to do all of the work myself" otherwise. It's about 20 seconds of work per player, that way. Not much more than finding their list within the thread.

I eagerly await Adel's explanations.

[Porkens]

I guess I'm about done

defending

my joke. I can see how Ecto has it in his head, and that's fine (wrong, but fine), and I'm not going to jump on him for it. I will say, though, as a parting shot, that if I wanted to avoid sticking my neck out, I could have done that in a more elagent way.

I have noted, and am wary, of the profound nut-slurping I've recieved from SpyreX. Call this distaning if you want!

Ecto;

everyone has their baggage; I certainly do. Rest assured; I'll lynch you if your scum. I dunno about joinging {BaM}, we've never had any interest in the past

Adel

I forgot Elmo was in the game; I guess that would count as lurking to me. I'm sure interested to see where you're going with your little project. But yes; those are my final answers.

[Porkens]

The reason I'm excusing Elmo (temporarily) is because Elmo warned us before the game that they might have to lurk due to RL factors. Otherwise, I might have voted Elmo in my last post.

ah, so if there was another player with activity as low as ecto's (or lower) you would not excuse that?

/

Akbar

(it's a TRAP!)

[Porkens]

vote: Spring

There's something fishy about being 200% town...

this post is notable.

Why?

[Porkens]

Adel:

There was nothing else I was confused about in post 133. Thanks for the answer, I dig it.

Herod and Adel:

It was an obviously loaded question. I didn't give anything away (especially not to Herod). "Not pro-town?" I just shake my head at that statement.

Vi:

I'm

still

waiting for her explanations.

[Porkens]

Wow; stuff happened.

Ok so first of all I admit that saying

it's a trap

might have given away something to someone in some games, but I actually put that possibility outside the realm of reason with this group. It was basically a bright orange bear trap in the middle of the road anyway.


Still waiting on Adel's explanation (did I miss it?) for what significance the questionare had.


What a rediculous qeuestion in 164, spring "Hey mod, I should ask this via PM but I want everyone to know I asked it: did the scum get to talk pregame <CAUSE I DONT KNOW IM NOT SCUM>" blarg.


Artem bent around like a reed in the wind at the start of the whole exchange with Herod.


Elmo, in 175, makes me shake my WIFOM head.


SpyreX, in 181, "bandwagons bad, long days bad..." is slightly scitzopherenic.


SpyreX, in 188, "THIS IS HOW WE META," resonates with me.


Elmo in 190, "Hey, you're both town, yeah?," makes my guts clench.

Hero, my biggest problem is this:

I got a red flag from your playstyle. I noted it. You said that I shouldn't be suspecting you to be scum based on that. I agreed that the level of suspicion does not warrant a vote. You seemed to disagree. I don't understand how you can both say that I should not have a high level of suspicion while saying that my level of suspicion should warrant a vote. Perhaps I came off with a stronger level suspicion than intended when writing words, but the lack of a vote (or even an FOS) should have given you a better idea of my level of suspicion, no?

Artem, this at first didn't look like an honest question to me. Reading the flow of the conversation, I thought the meaning was quite clear:

Artem: I think Herod is likely scum.
Herod: Why?
Artem: This reason.
Herod: That's a bad reason.
Artem: You're right.
Herod: But if you think I'm likely scum, why aren't you voting for me?
Artem: Fine <vote>.
Herod: But your reason still sucks.
Artem: Yeah, so?

Basically, if you know your reason sucks, then you shouldn't use it for the basis of a vote. If you feel strongly in your vote; you should have a reason that, you at least, think is good. Don't you see the contradiction in your actions here?

I'd vote for one of the kitties right now, but spring has done nothing to alleviate my suspicions.

[Porkens]

Adel, in this game you've refered to your "deep meta analysis" twice, I believe, but I've yet to see any. I assume that is

also

forthcomming?

If I ever "vote for reactions" like Adel's 217, my god I'd be wagoned so fast.

Since the overhaul of EM, I don't think the old links work?

Spring, that's re-read/post promise number...3 now?


Artem I don't think you've voted or unvoted on your own in the last 5 pages. Why do you wait for someone to tell you to do it? ATM you seem to be puppy-dogging Adel. The end of 223 is bizzare to me. I feel for you if you're irritated, but you shouldn't blame other people for it.



I'd love to hang Spring or Artem.

I'd shoot Adel if I were vig.

[Porkens]

Spring: The reason I asked about "trying to hard" was I couldn't find any post in which anyone actually said that, yet you put it in quotes, as if someone had. It's not a trick question.

As for you following Ecto's vote; as you say you were following his reasons but they were

bad

reasons. The "sticking to" or "keeping" terms were being missused. Sure, you don't have to always have origional reasoing, but you shouldn't follow BAD reasoning.

Troll brought up a good point;

why

did you ask the question? Pretend you had gotten a "yes" answer and tell us what that would have meant to you. Which interactions are you talking about?

By '''stalling''' you could be hoping to avoid notice altogether, let alone suspicion. If you say

nothing

, no one can hold anythign you say against you.

---

And, I'm sorry, but I can't agree with the rest of you on this one;

I'm in the hospital. Over a week, I'm real bad. I hurt myself

So you are in the hospital, hurt real bad, 10 hours after your last post, and your clear-headed, and physically capable enough to A) think "oh shit, my internet forum mafia game" and B) tell us about it? That's very hard to believe, and I think you are full of shit.

[Porkens]

Tajo:

I don't like your description of me as "either ... town or ... scum." Fence-sit much? And then I show up as Prob Town. You've also got Ecto on your "prob town" list but mention him

nowhere

in the preceding analysis. I'm getting "out-of-left-field" vibes from your vote on Hero.

Artem:

, if you declair that you have no intention of lynching someone you're voting for...maybe I'm missing the point? What good do your bandwagons tdo if you don't intend for them to end in lynches?

SpyreX:

Since you've made it part of the game;

[quote="spyreX"That said, Porken's statement firmly cements him as town in my eyes. No way in hell would scum take that stance considering the probable negative repercussions from it. So, thats something.[/quote]

Is the opposite true? Should we be looking at folks who were kind and receptive as more possibly scum than me or those who made no comment?

[Porkens]

I'll be in transit for the rest of today. I expect that I'll be able to post again tomorrow morning-ish.

[Porkens]

Oh very well, one more before I get on the plane.

@Porkens:
-For two posts in a row, you've basically echoed what SpyreX said towards me. I think you're being hypocritical here when you say I don't do anything on my own.

Which part of SpyreX's posts did I echo with this (the ONLY think I said about you in my last real post):

Artem:

, if you declair that you have no intention of lynching someone you're voting for...maybe I'm missing the point? What good do your bandwagons tdo if you don't intend for them to end in lynches?

I think you kinda missed the point with this question anyway, but that's fine.

Oh what the hell;

Unvote. Vote: Artem

(L-2?)

See y'all in a few more hours.

[Porkens]

Artem:

I was far more intersted in the idea of "bandwagons are good because they give pressure and promote discussion" combined with the statement "I have no intention of lynching the guy who's wagon I am on." I think my question to you was similar to, but separate from, what SpyreX was asking/talking about. The point that I don't think you got was that it wasn't necessarily an attack. As far as I believe; wagons are only useful if they have the potential to end in lynches.

Adel:

It would be a great time soon to reveal what you've learned from our responses to your survey and why you origionaly voted for SpyreX. As for Artem having a 'crap' case on him; I get plenty of negative vibes and a general over-defensive feel from him. To me, it's obvious that he'd be a decent day 1 lynch. I'm supprised that you've been so vocaly opposed to it. I'm personally not going to put together an in-one-place case; if someone wants to do that it would be fine, but ultimatly unneccesary imo.

Herod's unvote is rediculous, and I can't believe he jumped off the wagon at L-2 to prevent a too-early claim. There ya' go. This is the strongest negative point against Herod I've seen all game.

[Porkens]

Is it normal for Spyrex (as town) to prefer a short day 1?
And to dislike meta?

yes

[Porkens]

in my last game, on I replaced in on day 2, during night 2 with 12 or 13 players alive, two out of the three players with night moves two of them targeted me. I expect to get night killed in this game, obviously.

obviously every game will go down exactly like your last one.

So I ask you again, have you never seen wagons where it's obvious that the player is not going to be lynched? I simply stated that explicitly. I explained what wagons are good for in 254. Two of the things I gave don't require the person to be lynched (i.e., 1) Divison of players into on-wagon and off-wagon categories; 2) Prematurely asking for a claim.)

This is why I don't think you've understood my question or problem with what you've said. But for the sake of argument; no, I can't think of a wagon which OBVIOUSLY (popular word today) wouldn't end in a lynch. Then again, I probably would pay enough attention to such a pointless, stupid wagon to remember it.

Once again; if you

know

the wagon isn't going to end in a lynch, what's the point? That's like A pointing a gun at B (one that everyone involved knows is not loaded), and people making decisions based on A and B's actions.

[Porkens]

Can you explain your vote on me? If you didn't mean to attack me, then I don't understand why you're voting me if we're having a simple misunderstanding.

Bandwagons are good.

I wonder, were you trying to shift my arguments against Troll into a more refutable position? It would make sense, coupled with your light attacks against him, in a distancing scenario between you two.

This reads as manipulative rabble-rousing, to me.

Porkens: Unless I'm mistaken, Artem's lack of intention to immediately lynch the person whose wagon he does not exclude the wagon having potential to lynch them. You wouldn't typically expect someone to say "WE NEED TO LYNCH X IMMEDIATELY" early in the day, but early bandwagoning is commonplace. And yeah, Herod's unvote is ridiculous, it's like he doesn't genuinely believe Artem is scum, unsurprisingly - no wonder Artem sees a huge difference between this and the aggressive townie he played with before. Maybe you should do something about that, y'know, with a rope?

I can't tell if this is peace-keeping or defending. Why should

I

do something about Herod when

Artem

thinks he's acting scummy?

Also, I did comment on Ecto, please check again. I already explained my vote on Hero.

so you did, my bad - I don't know how I missed that.



I'm not for the tajo wagon a.t.m.. Primarily because it's being driven by Adel who still hasn't posted her reasons/motivations for a couple of major points.

[Porkens]

agreed.

unvote, vote: Adel

[Porkens]

Porkens has been echoing a lot of sentiments that other players have. While each one may be a valid concern and having a second person echo it may be good, repeatedly doing so without generating own original content is a scumtell to me. (or at least a laziness-tell, but why would town be lazy in this game?)

I get it that part of this attack is payback for when I called you out on

the same thing

, but it doesn't really stick in my craw because, well, every time you say it's scummy, your reinforcing

your own scumtells

.

If you really think I'm just following along, I'm flabbergasted. But even worse; otherwise, this is just a half-assed OMGUS.

[Porkens]

I've been asking Adel to come out with her analysis for at least 10(?) pages.

[Porkens]

you are talking to a person that thinks in terms of days instead of mere pages. I think you may need to find a new stalling tactic -- this one isn't going to get you anywhere.

this post doesn't make sense because...

A: I'm talking to Artem, not you, at the moment.
B: Days or Pages, same difference in this case.
C: YOU are the one who's stalling, what do you accuse

me

of stalling?

[Porkens]

I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.

I don't understand.

like, it isn't based upon evidence or experience. I think it is a lie.

I don't think that you could argue that I have a lack of experience. Anyhow, you are arguing over the wrong thing. If you do that all the time (promise charts and such and that isn't a lie), then it is a null tell because you do it whether you are town or scum. An argument over whether they work or not is for MD, not the game. So there should be no vote on you on that basis.
I told you I look for motivations over what people say, or even who they are sometimes. Porkens snap agreed and voted Adel even though there were 3 competing wagons at the time. If you have scum buddies in trouble, one way to help them out is spread the towns vote across as many busses as you can, hoping theirs will die.
So I'd like an explanation from Porkens concerning his vote following mine on Adel.

unvote

vote Porkens

It's staying there until she explains the two points that she's been promising to explain all game.

[Porkens]

I like the name analysis; it'll be useful later.


Adel; the two points I'm talking about are, as if it shouldn't be glaringly obvious; your "in-depth psychological analysis" of our responses to your survey at the very beginning of the game, and your actual reasons for the sudden vote on SpyreX.

In general, I can't believe how much everyone is letting Adel slide. It boggles my mind.

This is the second time you've accused me of "stalling." Again; what have I stalled on?

[Porkens]

Adel, I'm impressed by your chart in 442. However, I am tired of beating my head against the wall asking you (again, and again) for the now 3 pieces of information you should give us (1. What's your meta analysis of your survey results? 2. Explanation for what reactions you wanted from the vote on SpyreX (I actually don't care about these, but since you said you would explaine, please do.) 3. What have I been stalling on?)

Elmo, your analysis in 448 is nice, but of course it'll get more interesting as the game develops (aka people start dying). I also dig what you accuse Korts of in 452.

Korts, as per 456; are you saying you backed off your vote because Adel questioned you?

Herod;

In that regard, I'm going to disappoint him. I just hope it doesn't lead to a mislynch in LYLO (I'm guessing this is the current game-plan of the scum, assuming Elmo is town.)

and

Do you think the scum are going to even consider NKing me?

This has been mentioned already but it warrents another: What?
AND an """rolefishing""" backpeddle in 477?

unvote, vote: herodotus

Artem; Blah, I've asked the most, I don't even have to go back and count to be sure of that (although you are welcome to.) Like I said before, your attack on me, consisting of "PORKENS IS JUST PARROTING"

after

I accused you of the same is transparent, I dunno, "one-upsmanship," possibly? In any case, doing it the most makes me king of it, so there you go.

[Porkens]

Honestly, I wasn't. However, I probably still would have hammered.

[Porkens]

viewtopic.php?p=1298220#1298220

[Porkens]

Adel, the fact that you didn't have a chart that was concurrent with the game is actually a point against you.

QFT, however;

I think that a lot of votes on you were because players suspected that you were pretending to be busy running some deep analysis in the background. So when it turns that you don't even have a chart, which according to you is the how you play this game, then I'm more inclined to side with the sentiment that a lot of the mystery was for show.

Except for those of us, of course, who were just

following along

.

Of course, now if Hero flips scum, I'd be more inclined to buy into the scum-driven derailing of Hero's wagon, which would buy you townie points.

All aboard for the last

bus

.

[Porkens]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 20#1298220

congrats, you have a meta for blindly hammering. Yet another player who thinks that having an anti-town meta will help thenm in games, just what this site needs.

How insulting Please to turn on your irony/sarcasm detector, along with your 'vibe' radar.

[Porkens]

Are you talking in the mirror there buddy?

Huh, I'm not sure how to respond to this. 'No?' is my initial position, since I was talking specifically, and obviously, to y'all.

Your theory is that I hammered my scum buddy, either unknowingly in a fit of stupidity, or knowingly, but without asking for a claim and therefore making myself look scummy and "blindly hammer happy?" Do either of those strike you as likely?

You also seem pretty confident that Herod is gunna flip scum yet

you weren't on his wagon

.

[Porkens]

Huh, I'm not sure how to respond to this. 'No?' is my initial position, since I was talking specifically, and obviously, to

Adel

.

EBWOP

[Porkens]

Nope sorry, I got confused; yes, I was saying you,

Artem

were busing Herod.

I think if Hero flips scum, Adel is town.

See, that's where I go "all three of them are scum." Or at the very least you may know that Herod will flip scum and are trying to buddy up to Adel now.

Atrem doesn't seem confident of hero's alignment to me Are you trying to set him up, again?

These two posts are the onse from which I get the "he knows Herod is scum" vibe:

Adel, the fact that you didn't have a chart that was concurrent with the game is actually a point against you.

I think that a lot of votes on you were because players suspected that you were pretending to be busy running some deep analysis in the background. So when it turns that you don't even have a chart, which according to you is the how you play this game, then I'm more inclined to side with the sentiment that a lot of the mystery was for show.

Of course, now if Hero flips scum, I'd be more inclined to buy into the scum-driven derailing of Hero's wagon, which would buy you townie points.

This, comming out when it does looks, to me, like a setup in it's own right. It's a declaration that Adel will get townpoints iff Herod flips scum. There's no merit to doing so unless Artem will personally gain from it.

and...

(RE: I said Artem was busing Herod) Are you talking in the mirror there buddy?

^^^This accusation hinges on Herod being scum.

[Porkens]

@514: Aaah... I see now.

Still, I don't think it makes sense. Why would a wagon start building up on Adel while Hero is under pressure, but not when I was under pressure? People finally had enough of it... all of a sudden? No, I think if Hero flips scum, Adel is town.

it wasn't even a major wagon on me! It was just referenced a lot of times! I never had the same number of votes as H, let alone more.

This is highly unusual in my experience..

I'm not sure what to make of it. I think that if H. flips scum then looking at players referenced my wagon multiple times without getting on board is a good idea.

I don't actually follow the bolded part. Why would

not

being on your wagon, if Herod flips scum, be a scumtell?

[Porkens]

Well, you're right, he gains both ways, but the post in question still sets up that gain.

The question is would Artem-TOWN gain from the statement?

[Porkens]

The best explanation for my wagon (assuming H. is scum) is that actual townies were onboard it, and the scum were trying to push it without being on it.

Okay, I think I'm following, but how is that dependent on H's flip?

[Porkens]

I was just being sassy about 'you' and 'y'all', and I'm so used to arguing with you in this game that I screwed up. It wasn't a typing error, it was a thinking error. My bad.

[Porkens]

Haha oh sure;

f I had a bullet and Hero flips town I'd shoot: Adel
If I had a bullet and Hero flips scum I'd shoot: Artem

subtle change

[Porkens]

It doesn't, really. But I run on a dumber plane than most of you; Adel is on Hero's wagon and Artem isn't.

[Porkens]

It doesn't, really. But I run on a dumber plane than most of you; Adel is on Hero's wagon and Artem isn't.

in the South people call this "slow-talking" -- getting people to underestimate your intelligence so that you can take advantage of their misconception.

In the PNW we call it patronizing.

[Porkens]

I'm just gunna look stupid this game, I guess.

I see neither a breadcrumb nor Adel picking up on one.

[Porkens]

So..."I think your post probably is pro-town?"

You guys have more points in Bluff than I do if that's really what the exchange means.

[Porkens]

Artem, Herod AND Tajo all being town has just made my brain collapse on itself.

^^^this. Hopefully more this weekend.

[Porkens]

SpyreX is obvtown.

unvote, vote Adel

[Porkens]

What are you implying?

[Porkens]

Your play baffles me (for better or worse).

[Porkens]

why are you voting for me?

Like I said before, the three people all dying and all being town made my psyche shatter. You've been giving me a scummy gut vibe for a long time. And like I said, and have consistently said, thought the game; If I were vig, I'd shoot Adel.

why do you believe SpryeX's claim?

Look at his other vig games; he always shoots night one, and he always claims.

[quote="Adel]why do you think it is improbable that I'm being setup for a mislynch?[/quote]

I didn't say I thought it was improbable. But you are on my short-list of scum possibles.

Did you really read all of the posts in this thread, since your last post, before your vote on me? Did you really think about all of those exchanges?

I skimmed. I didn't absorb much; it's all turning into white noise at this point (megapost v. megapost). But I do know SpyreX's claiming/shooting habits as vig, and I take that to be your main point against him even though you claim to do "deep, psycological meta analysis."

[Porkens]

Even with meta being weak, it's too balsy to calim vig for an sk day 2 to be worth it imo.

[Porkens]

Adel is obvscum. DGB should vote for her

[Porkens]

to encourage others to vote.

[Porkens]

Red Six be thinking Troll is possibly town. Red Six has no real reads on anyone, anymore because of the surprises of last night and the blinding red certainty that Adel is scum. If Red Six lives till tomorrow, Red Six will assess who is Adel's partner, but for now Red Six feels it's moot who

else

is scum.

-Jek Porkens

[Porkens]

SpryreX, do you think that others find Troll to be pro-town?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

HUH?!

[Porkens]

why didn't you warn of lynch -2 with this post,
Porkens wrote:
SpyreX is obvtown.

unvote, vote Adel


or warn what the votecount was with this post?

I didn't know what the votecount was, and I was too lazy to go check. I actually had (L-2?) typed out <again, apparently>, but didn't want to look foolish.

[Porkens]

Wait, am I going nuts? Are you passing the last 3-4 pages off as a gambit?

[Porkens]

@Adel.

1) I do not get the way you are acting as if you are unjustly attacked. When I make un-obvious play as town, I expect resistance and don't act naive if it comes. The answer to your question "what do I expect of you" is simple: justify the town motive behind your play, because I do not see it.
2) I do not like the last 2 pages, from either you or Spyrex, I see those page as pointless bickering.
3) I do not like the fact that you have posted your spreadsheet and the questionnaire answers for about the 3rd time, and consider it very plausible that it is malicious spamming.
4) I do not like the following:

@Spyrex: do you plan on posting ever again? What is it with people being so susceptible.

do you think that appeal to emotion was legitimate? Storming off like that doesn't meet my expectation for townie behavior.

My answer is no, I do not think any attempt at appeal to emotion is legitimate, especially in this game because I think everybody here good enough to do it at scum. However, I remember clearly that you have dismissed my using this argument toward Artem as "pseudo-random", so I'm not liking your change here.
5)Generally speaking, the only reason I'm personally wary of calling you scum is because your play makes as little sense as scum as it does as town and am second guessing because I would expect better from you, scum or town. This is no longer satisfactory as I see you as plausibly daring enough to make that play as scum and setting yourself up as an easy target.

Now, below is the compilation of all the vote you have cast till now. I'd like you to justify each of them, clearly, and without mystery.

Day 1:
Vote Spyrex
Vote Herodotus
Vote Pop.
Vote spyrex
Vote Porkens
Vote Herod

Day 2
Vote Zorblag
Vote spyrex
Vote Vi

__________________

@Spyrex.

Why are you setting this as Adel town/Spyrex scum or Spyrextown/adelscum scenario?

If Adel flips town, why should it be conviction of your guilt?
If you flip town, why should it make Adel scum?

__________________

@Elmo, and DGB. I'm reserving comment on your play here.

Town.

[Porkens]

Can we lynch Adel now?

[Porkens]

Adel SCREAMS scum to me.

[Porkens]

OT:

Countdown to mafia retirement:
2 games in Coney Island

How come?

[Porkens]

Guys. Go back and look at Porkens' first post where he joked about doing something that looks scummy (third vote on a wagon without reasoning) for the purposes of getting reactions. Now try and tell me with a straight face that he doesn't understand why Adel might gambit similarly.

You're not even examining the possibility. There's no doubt, no consideration, just OMG SCUM FULL STEAM AHEAD.

D-FENCE chug chug D-FEnCE

[Porkens]

No, my vote on adel doesn't contradict anything I've said. my joke was a JOKE. Her "gambit" was transparent backpedaling.

You're using adel's meta to forgive her bad play; that's the single worst use of meta I can think of.

Adel's been spamming up the game with empty promises and, thus far, useless "analysis."

She's over-the-top scummy, or possibly around-the-horn scummy, which is the only possibility I can think of for why you are attacking me over it.

I have no idea what a "water off a duck's back" defense is.

[Porkens]

But you obviously agree that a townie can usefully do something like that as a gambit. You have not given any reason why it is unlikely to be a gambit - you say it's transparent, and yet you are not giving any reasoning. Why not?

mmmm no i was making fun of people who make gambits like that AND the people who freak out about them. double plus bonus: attacking a likely vig is different then putting an extra vote on someone at page 2.


Your PRIMARY defense of adel was meta, so this doesnt make sense.

[Porkens]

Because it's an unlikely and stupid gambit?

It's cool though, this town is damned anyway.

[Porkens]

[Porkens]

EBWOP

[Porkens]

If you don't understand her play after 37 pages of walls-o-text, and neither do I don't take it as a slight, how can you feel that's just neutral. Don't you think, in the thousands of words she's posted, she could have made her intentions clear if she'd wanted to?

[Porkens]

frankly I'm a tad nervous about being linked, because doing something like that as scum in order to get me to defend her is precisely the sort of stunt I could see her pulling after noting my reaction to Artem day 1 and the games I've noted above. Conspiracy theory agogo > >

this, of course, just looks like distancing to me.

[Porkens]

Misslynch today is probably a town lose.

[Porkens]

Hmm, I guess that's a reasonable point, Troll. I just usually assume 3 scum for a 12-man.

[Porkens]

Welp, I'm retarded; I thought there were 8 alive for some reason.

[Porkens]

No, I was just trying to be snarky

[Porkens]

I'd prefer to hit scum, yes. The numbers don't change that, you're right. I was just trying to be snarky with my "its mylo" post, but i flubbed the numbers.

I'd have to think about my second choice, but it would fall somewhere between elmo you, and ecto ATM

[Porkens]

On the whole, your posts seem to be deceptively insubstantial. your participating, but not comitting. your *relationship* with adel, while subtle, seems real to me at this time.

I'm just getting bad vibes from ecto, again.

DBG, well, again, nothing specific, sadly, just a general read, and compared to the giant red flags I have comming from adel, everyone else is lost in contrast.

[Porkens]

Mod, can we get a votecount, pretty please?

[Porkens]

Soft claims are tech.

[Porkens]

Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim can take a lifetime.

<3

[Porkens]

If you thought you were going to die last night, why didn't you self-protect?

[Porkens]

SpyreX and I are friends in real life; but we'd never pull something like that.

In other news; I'm a cop. And Spring is town.

[Porkens]

Sorry that I've been remiss in keeping up with this game; TBH it's a little beyond my tolerance as far as words-per-post and hard for me to do. In addition to that, I've had personal and professional issues to contend with that have kept me away from my all my hobbies.

/appeal to emotion


As I see it, in this game we have two camps; those willing to lynch Adel, and those not willing to. I'm, obviously, in that first camp. The second camp; I really don't understand.

Adel has jammed up the game with hollow analysis and empty promises. She engages in both WIFOM and scum-motivation speculation. Her inclusion of meta is two-faced; it always works out in her favor. I understand that she has some kind of "rep" on MS, but I don't know why. Of course, in addition to that; there's the personal "your bad at the game" insults, which are really inappropriate and inflammatory.

Troll is playing along with her games, and that lumps him in with her, in my opinion. Ecto is puppy-dogging on her every move, answering questions for her, and, in my mind, is like a clip-on stuffed animal to her persona. Elmo supports her crappy meta, and yet distances himself from her (a good move regardless of alignment, good for peace of mind, in my opinion). Anyway, the fact is, being

unwilling

to lynch anyone who isn't confirmed is strange and worrisome.

I claimed because I wanted the game to take on a new perspective. I've never had a "confirmed" cop sanity role on MS, so I don't know how appropriate that question is, Adel. The only answer I guess I can give is that my sanity isn't confirmed at all. What I do know is that the last time someone questioned my sanity when I gave my report; they were scum.

I still want an Adel lynch, I think the 1 shot doc-claim sounds bogus, but if I can't have that; I suppose I'll just have to live with that. Even if Adel is town, Ecto is still suspect for his lap-dogging.

unvote; vote Ecto

[Porkens]

Porkens, you utterly failed to address these questions:

Ironically, I actually considered you might be a cop pushing a guilty on Adel for a while; if you died, how would we avoid that?

God, I'd love to see adel lynched because you thought I had a guilty on her. I considered lying and saying that's what I had.

why should we believe your claim?

...This is a non-sense question.

What does Porkens think of what Troll has brought up about DrippingGoofball?

I dunno.

Why is Porkens jumping on with unexplained reasons on non-investigated players? Involved in a quicklynch? Keeping an uninvestigated player at L-1 for so long?

Because I really think she's scum and my inno on Spring was just peripheral.

I understand that she has some kind of "rep" on MS, but I don't know why.

why? probably my extradonarily high win % as town and as mafia + how many other respected players have a high opinion of my ability + 2 scummies for 2008

Wow, just wow.

Anyways; Win Percentage as Town: ~56% (19/34) <--- is your wiki out of date then?



Elmo; yeah, I go back and forth on you. I think I understand where you're comming from. You're not puppy-dogging like the other kitty is, and that's good. sorry if I miss-remembered some of the specifics.

[Porkens]

EBWOP:

You know what, never mind; I don't even want to get into it.

Adel wrote:
Porkens wrote:
I understand that she has some kind of "rep" on MS, but I don't know why.

why? probably my extradonarily high win % as town and as mafia + how many other respected players have a high opinion of my ability + 2 scummies for 2008


Wow, just wow.

Anyways; Win Percentage as Town: ~56% (19/34) <--- is your wiki out of date then?

[Porkens]

Lord Gurgi, the quality of a potential bus no be the issue. It be that DrippingGoofball says that Adel be town and the only reasonings she gives for Prokens voting for Adel involve bussing or town tunneling. This indicates that she knows that Adel be scum as Porkens as scum no could bus Adel, it just no be what bus means. If DripingGoofball thinks that a vote from scum Prokens for Adel must be bussing then Adel must believe that both are scum.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

No, yeah, you're right, this is spot on.

On the issue of my alignment; why would I try SO FUCKING HARD to bus Adel when half the people in the game have expressed such lenience and patience with her?

It is a contradiction, DGB for scum then. But Ecto too, I think. And still, probably adel.

Adel, why are you attempting to undermine the claimed cop?

I don't accept claims at face value. I test them. Note that Porkens is posting in other games

right now

, but not this one, & reread Prokens posts for this day. He is lurking through, and I can break a fakeclaim.

I only have one keyboard and Mouse, Adel. I know you love the "search all posts" function, but this isn't chat-room mafia; I'm allowed to play in all three of my games which are each as important as eachother.

[Porkens]

bad at mafia defense? also, I adore how you have lying as a cop as part of your meta.

It won the game, it's not a defense at all.

no, it isn't. Why should we believe that you are a cop, other than your word?

why would you investigate spring as opposed to Korts or me?

I defy you to give me an example of an answer to that first question. What could I possibly say to make you believe me more or less? In any case, it's out there on record now, for better or worse; I'm not interested in MAKING you believe me or not.

I figured if you were town, you'd get night killed. If you were scum, you'd get yourself lynched. Same for Korts. Why do you ask about Korts, specifically? I went for the person I suspected early on in day 1 who didn't(?) have any votes up.

[Porkens]

which just isn't something that the bad at mafia crew seem to have.

Can you please, please stop the personal insults? It's really very unpleasant. You thought SpyreX sucked, that's fine. You think I suck, that's fine. To keep bringing it up like this is just kicking up dirt from what I can tell.

[Porkens]

If "he isn't very credible", why do you not just point that out instead of trying to make him look worse than he really is?

too emotionally involved. taking a break now to cool off.

I appreciate this.

Adel, can you suspend the condescension?

ok, I'll try. this is why I don't play in newbie games.

This, not so much.



Yours seem to boil down to "look how obtuse and vague I was yesterday; that's because I'm a 1-shot doc, it makes perfect sense."

Here's mine; I've been intentionally playing badly to avoid being night killed. But today I was tired of it, so I went whole-hog and claimed.

[Porkens]

I figured if you were town, you'd get night killed.

why did you think I would be NK'd?

this question is important to me though. please answer it.

because you said so.

[Porkens]

It didn't play a part. I looked at everyone and thought about my general impressions before settling on S-lully. I really thought I could catch a scum with my investigation; I wasn't looking to get an innocent.

I did himm and haw about investigating you and yes, I'll say I thought about Korts, too, for the reasons you brought up at the end of the last page. But overall, I had a strong gut on SL, so I went for the risk over certain rewards.

[Porkens]

At this point I'm finding that hard to remember. I had guessed that Spy was breadcrubing vig. wiht his "if I had a bullet" game.

I figured that you and Herod were scum together, or Arten would be scum. the fact that everyone flipped town really screwed me up, as I said before. Honestly, I thought it was a lock and I just had to find the last partner.

[Porkens]

Too high-profile, I was hopping to find an under-the-radar scum.

[Porkens]

so you did think that Atrem was most probable scum following the Hero-town flip?

That was my general instinct, yes.


I'm not sure what you're getting at with those quotes. The one about hte bus, I believe was between artem in regards to...you? I think?

At the time of the third quote; I thought i would investigate you. furthur consideration changed my mind.

the last post: I don't remember the context, honestly. I thought one thing about adel and one thing about artem based on who was on the dead townies wagon? I'm not sure.

[Porkens]

Yeah, I did think you'd be nightkilled if you were town; But I couldn't miss the chance to snipe at ya.

I didn't investigate him because I was going for a longshot.

You've accuratley broken down my stated opinions into logical statments. I do second-guess myself though, probably mroe than I should.

btw, without looking, how old does everyone think Porkens is?

How is this relevant? Do you want to guess my profession, too?

[Porkens]

would you explain how you were able to correctly figure out SpryeX breadcrumb, but you weren't able to figure out Hero's even after he pointed it out?

sure; hero's breadcrumb i still don't understand. it wasnt even really a breadcrumb. a capitol D? I would never get that. the rest of it was interaction with you. he breadcrubed a fakeclaim, which is even more unobvious. I still dont get how anyone is supposed to A: figure that out at the time or B: look back and go OHHH I get it yeah

Spy basically claimed vig with his little game idea. I thought it was obviouse to everyone, honestly.


Before day 2, I had you pegged as someone the town would be willing to lynch, so i didnt worry about investigating you.

to an extent, yes i have been playing below my ability to avoid a nightkill.

I can't actually remember why i thought spring was scum, something early in day 1 i think. again; I was going for the longshot. Artem and you are high-profile in day one, spring isnt. I try to be sneaky with my targets like that sometimes.

I'm not lying about who i investigated, for the record.

I'm flattered that you think im smarter than I seem, but horrified because I'm not really playing THAT dumb. I didn't know my vote was a hammer, I loose patience and vote, and I claim when I feel it will be interesting, if not completely pro-town.

[Porkens]

Adel wasn't at L-1 anymore when I claimed and gave my report.

[Porkens]

I fully admit that my report/claim timing was unorthodox. I'm not saying it was tech. But I was demoralized, and bored. And I think it's done a reasonable job shaking things up and giving the game new perspective.

But anyway, it's not a big deal. The report is there. I don't expect it to 'clear' anyone (except, perhaps only to clear me to spring-lully exclusively), but it's there now for further reference.

DBG is pushing really hard on me and Spring, largely, it seems, based on my report and claim. I can't really blame him, but I don't think I'm gunna change his mind by arguing with him directly anyway.

I really, really, really hate to say this but....my interactions with Adel yesterday...kinda give me a town vibe on her. Which makes me feel all kinds of mixed emotions.

Still though, I think Ecto, through all of this, has been suspicious.

unvote, vote Ecto

if I wasn't already.

[Porkens]

oh and cudos to Spring for catching my half-assed breadcrumb

[Porkens]

Right, that's what I'm sayin - it scares me.

Yes "yesterday" as about 15 hours ago or whatever.

[Porkens]

Vi, Spring, would you be willing to point your guns elsewhere today?

[Porkens]

I forgot that I did the breadcrumb :p I also half-assed an "adel is scum" breadcrumb.


ohhhhh no no no Adel isn't town in my eyes, but I'm not absolutely as sure that she's scum atm.

[Porkens]

wooo and im done.

unvote; vote Adel

spring, LG, ELMO, Vi, can we please join together to end our collective suffering?

[Porkens]

Troll, join in; the more the merrier

[Porkens]

Alternatively, and here I go second-guessing myself again, I think we'd do JUST fine with an Ecto lynch. Maybe a ~little~ better.

But liek I said, I'd lynch either.

[Porkens]

A spring-town lynch will not prove that Porkens is also town

pointless, especially when we have other lynches.

I propose a voting block;

Porkens,
Spring,
Elmo,
Vi,
Zorby.

I'm litterally fine with lynching

anyone

else.

[Porkens]

oh, oh, I just membered. Adel; do you remember the whole "herod breadcrumbed doc and Adel understood" bit? Did you actually understand his breadcrumbing at the time, as he claimed?

[Porkens]

Whoops, Gurgi shoudl be in the blok too.

[Porkens]

Oh hey, I think you've misunderstood. I didn't know my vote was a hammer, like I said, but I'm not sorry it was.

This game is getting close to burning me out.

That could be for the best; it kinda seems like you need a break.

[Porkens]

oh, oh, I just membered. Adel; do you remember the whole "herod breadcrumbed doc and Adel understood" bit? Did you actually understand his breadcrumbing at the time, as he claimed?

yes.

So you believed he was breadcrumbing doc?

[Porkens]

And this compelled you to believe he was town?

[Porkens]

And this compelled you to believe he was town?

nope. I was pretty agnostic on his alignment. I wanted to test his claim.

you thought it likely that there were two docs?

[Porkens]

And this compelled you to believe he was town?

nope. I was pretty agnostic on his alignment. I wanted to test his claim.

you thought it likely that there were two docs?

not two normal docs, but two doc variants, sure, totally possible. A breakcrumb to be used for a later fakecalim would be even more likely.

I don't understand; if you saw him setting up for a fake claim, why didn't you have a stronger scum-read on him?

[Porkens]

And this compelled you to believe he was town?

nope. I was pretty agnostic on his alignment. I wanted to test his claim.

you thought it likely that there were two docs?

not two normal docs, but two doc variants, sure, totally possible. A breakcrumb to be used for a later fakecalim would be even more likely.

I don't understand; if you saw him setting up for a fake claim, why didn't you have a stronger scum-read on him?

YOU HAMMERED BEFORE WE COULD TEST HIS CLAIM!

How could we have tested his claim before the end of the day?

[Porkens]

have a good night.

[Porkens]

1, 3. But he'd already claimed to you in code; and you understood it, so what difference would that have made?

2. yes, this would have been good.

[Porkens]

oh my head.

Once again, Can TEH voting block (

Spring, LG, Vi, Elmo, and Zorb

), that should be agreed upon already, agree on anyone? Let's just do this systematically.

Porkens would lynch:

Ectomancer
Adel
DrippingGoofball

Korts

Mr. Flay

I need absolutely no convincing to lynch/vote for/hammer any of these people. Like Troll said; it's unlikely that we are in a mylo situation. I'm just saying lets block-up for today and get another couple of flips. All we need is consensus. Make your lists and lets see if we can put this day out of our misery.

[Porkens]

EBWOP:

oh my head.

Once again, Can TEH voting block (

Spring, LG, Vi, Elmo, and Porkens

), that should be agreed upon already, agree on anyone? Let's just do this systematically.

Porkens would lynch:

Ectomancer
Adel
DrippingGoofball

Korts

Mr. Flay

Zorb

I need absolutely no convincing to lynch/vote for/hammer any of these people in bold. Like Troll said; it's unlikely that we are in a mylo situation. I'm just saying lets block-up for today and get another couple of flips. All we need is consensus. Make your lists and lets see if we can put this day out of our misery.

[Porkens]

Testing Porkens' claim is a priority because this is the only chance we have to test it.

~Testing~ me by hanging spring seems off to me, in all honesty. You think its the onyl time to test it? well, that's assuming that neither he nor I die, ever. IF you have doubts about my claim, and he flips town, youll STILL have doubts about my claim. If he flips scum, they youll STILL have doubts about my claim. All you'd be doing is "lynching" a guy. Don't delude yourself into thinking you'd get any more information than that from it.

Occam's razor here people.

[Porkens]

See, if we have an extra lynch, which we do if you're right about the scum, and two scum kill is silly and 4 scum still has the same problem as before (why didn't they hammer if it would have won them the game) so, we can lynch you to prove Porken's claim

ith no significant consequences.

Adel would still be alive.

[Porkens]

Vi, hats off brother. My god.