Open 143: Jungle Republic (Game Over!) before 787

[hewitt]

/confirm

[hewitt]

Alright, no random voting stage. It's stupid, pointless, and stifles proper discussion.

Instead, I'll direct a few questions towards the Town at large? Only Mafia need not answer. ; P

Do you think it's scummy to say that an RVS shouldn't be conducted? What would you prefer as an alternative? Do any of you have interesting meta on other players?

The RVS is good discussion starter but I don't participate in it. If I find a better alternative then I shall employ it. As for the meta, zwets and Empking, yada yada...

Actually, I should probably cool it down with the Emp talk. Hewitt tends to have the urge to leave games when I get started with Emp and Zwet.

LOL I just wish they were gone...

I'm not really seeing the Dust case here. If there's one thing I've learned from my time playing Mafia, it's that buddying isn't really a scumtell anymore. In fact, I've found that scum tend to not communicate so much with each other in the thread. They comment on each other here and there and maybe throw in a few questions to avoid suspicion, so buddying isn't really a tell, but distancing can be. But even that is only a tell if they're distancing themselves from someone that may be lynched.

I don't really see the Dust case either however, I do disagree that buddying isn't a scumtell. I don't think two scum are likely to buddy up but I think it's more likely that a scum player would buddy up with a town player. The town player would be clueless but the scum player would not be (obviously).

Hewitt tends to have the urge to leave games when I get started with Emp and Zwet.

Is this why he hasn't posted?

Naw, that's not the reason why I wasn't posting I just really wasn't on. Didn't even know the game started until today.

[hewitt]

With the statements of "I don't see the dust case" which I've seen twice, I would like for some elaboration as there are 4 other people that seem to disagree.

So that I can refine my case, or (if it need be) withdraw it, I'll need more than fence sitting statements considering the two people that made them were inactive/tied up in negative meta talk.

I'm sorry, let me rephrase. I disagree with the dust case, I think it's pretty insignificant.

[hewitt]

I wouldn't go as far as saying AA23 is scum but I remember reading the previous pages and thinking he's the scummiest, I'm at Six Flags today so if I don't explain why tonight then prompt me and I'll remember tomorrow.

zwets that is a horrible idea to counterclaim at this point.

[hewitt]

Do you have reason to believe that a town with 5 villains not taking advantage of a 7 to lynch wagon isn't suspicious?

I disagree, especially after this has been pointed out.

[hewitt]

Please tell me that's not all you have to say...

Pretty much all I had to say on that topic.

I wouldn't go as far as saying AA23 is scum but I remember reading the previous pages and thinking he's the scummiest, I'm at Six Flags today so if I don't explain why tonight then prompt me and I'll remember tomorrow.

Until you explain...

unvote

vote hewitt

At the time I believe he was number 1 in my mind for two reasons. The first is that he stuck out the most prominently in my mind as someone I disagreed with pretty much just based on quantity of posting which is not a good reason to suspect someone but he was the one I most remembered. The second is that I felt he pushed the case on Dust so vigorously and a little too forcedly in the first three pages in the game which I felt was too early.

Now though after reading back I don't think he was the scummiest but the one I disagreed with the most.

[hewitt]

Also since we have you here hewitt, what do you think of said bandwagon?

I don't care for/support it.

[hewitt]

At the time I believe he was number 1 in my mind for two reasons. The first is that he stuck out the most prominently

in my mind as someone I disagreed with pretty much just based on quantity of posting which is not a good reason to suspect someone but he was the one I most remembered.

You admittedly suspected me for a bullshit reason and have the right to judge my case on Dust?

My case on dust was me supporting a vote on him, not a lynch - - Part of what was happening was seeing who flocked to the wagon and how things cooked up - - the game was developing, there was nothing malicious and my reasoning was sound for all my actions.

See I vote to lynch so sometimes I forget that others vote to pressure someone or something like that. And I didn't like your reasonings thinking you were voting with the intent to lynch.

Also since we have you here hewitt, what do you think of said bandwagon?

Which bandwagon are you referring to zwets or Ace? Because those would be two completely different answers.

With only 5 game relevant posts, I must say, Hewitt, you're unusually quiet.

Look across all my games right now. I'm playing quite horribly compared to usual (in terms of posting content and quantity). I've just come back for the summer and all my jobs have just started within the week. I'm like never home now.

His activity has been declining lately though, so it's pretty much a nulltell.

True, but know he's not even saying much in the few posts he does make. I find that a little suspicious.

Do remember that the last game we played in together and I was scum and I posted like every other minute...

Can I get meta on Hewitt's posting habits?

^scum

Never mind I guess? According to zwets I'm scum although he knows me not posting as much is unusual for me as scum.

I think anyone would claim Seer if they didn't want to die.

Town would claim it to delay their death and attract an NK.
Mafia would do it simply to stay alive.
Wolves would do it to stay alive and force the Seer to counterclaim later.
The Seer would do it because they're the Seer.

I totally and completely disagree with town would claim it to delay their death and attract a NK. I would not claim seer if I were town and I wasn't.

[hewitt]

my opinions on the seer as I read: As long as there are two werewolves, Dust's claim shouldn't be CC'd as our one seer is more valuable then their lynches. After one is lynched, the seer then should CC (if dust is lying), netting us the two dangerous scum.

I agree with what you're saying mostly. Not quite sure if I agree with when you're proposing he counter-claims (if he's lying) but I don't think he/she should counter-claim now.

But I'm also wondering why there is soooo much attention on him lying at this point. I think most of us are in agreement that it shouldn't be counter-claimed so at this point assume that he's telling the truth and get over it for right now.

[hewitt]

Nice way to shrug off all suspicion of you, dust.

Did he not just claim seer. Do you want to lynch the seer today?

[hewitt]

@hewitt - It might have been lost in translation, but I was actually referring to the Dust bandwagon. Can I get your thoughts on that?

Honestly, it sounds to me like disgruntled scum who are pissed off that their opportunity to lynch a townie is ruined so they're moping about it and trying to somehow cast him in a bad light.

[hewitt]

Hewitt - You're coming across as a bit of a nodding head since the bottom of pg 12. - - can you give more reasoning behind anything you're agreeing with? (ie. Ace telling us we can CC tomorrow when Dust is dead no matter what anyhow - - Dej pointing this out - -and then you agreeing with it regardless?)

Mix - - are you talking about "why isn't your vote on him"? - -

FoS:Ace
For using hyperbole to strengthen a vote against Dust and opportunistically distancing yourself to take it off.

I want more before I vote. We have time - - and I'm not satisfied with Hewitt, he indeed types more than he says, and I take his jumping back from lurking with agreeable manner to be suspicious.

Hewitt- - you answered mix's questio, but acknowledged the first two before he clarified Dust's - - Can you not give an opinion on the other wagons?

I have no idea what you're talking about in your first paragraph. I don't recall agreeing with anything Ace has proposed or anything, totally confused.

Let me just state this as clearly as I can- I do not support a counter-claim today because I believe Dust is the seer at the moment. As for the other wagons I support a zwets wagon mainly because of this-

Nice way to shrug off all suspicion of you, dust.

Did he not just claim seer. Do you want to lynch the seer today?

No, I want to lynch him if he doesn't die tonight.

That was the perfect answer for scum. Scum can send in a nightkill on anybody else other than Dust and then support lynching Dust because he wasn't nightkilled (a.k.a. "proving" he's scum). You totally walked right into that one zwets and I think I've totally caught scum here.

Vote: zwets

[hewitt]

Isn't he saying that he would lynch Dust if the scum didn't NK him? Which would suggest Dust is scum and make perfect sense?

And you said you didn't understand the first paragraph - reread post 300-302

You're still not coming across very town like to me - you're unclear and inaccurate

Saying that totally sets up a good scumplay where Dust is the seer, we do not lynch him, scum kills someone else instead of him, and then we lynch our seer. How do you not understand that? I think it's very clear.

my opinions on the seer as I read: As long as there are two werewolves, Dust's claim shouldn't be CC'd as our one seer is more valuable then their lynches. After one is lynched, the seer then should CC (if dust is lying), netting us the two dangerous scum.

I agree with what you're saying mostly. Not quite sure if I agree with when you're proposing he counter-claims (if he's lying) but I don't think he/she should counter-claim now.

But I'm also wondering why there is soooo much attention on him lying at this point. I think most of us are in agreement that it shouldn't be counter-claimed so at this point assume that he's telling the truth and get over it for right now.

Hence I feel Hewitt is failing to say anything relevent - - he's voting you for making a statement that all of us are more or less on the same page with (the idea that Dust not being NK'd as very suspicious)

Yet between posts 300-302, he agreed with Ace that if Dust were alive tomorrow, he would want a CC.

Kind of a hypocrisy, not very sensible, and I feel like Hewitt is talking out of his hat so he can get out of the lurker stage.

Which he has yet to do for me.

Ace & Hewitt, not looking too hot.

Actually, I did not say that. Do not misrepresent me I did not say that I want a counter-claim tomorrow if he's not nightkilled tonight.

Never underestimate scumplay AA, playing the WIFOM and saying that leaving the seer alive is a risky move for scum is only speculation. It could end up being a brilliant move on their part. We'll see tonight I guess.

[hewitt]

That's not at all what I'm doing AA. You and zwets have been setting this all up so that if Dust were not nightkilled tonight and Dust really is the seer then that's an easy lynch for you tomorrow. That's all assuming you're scum that is, and I'm going to assume that he's the seer.

[hewitt]

Whatever dude I didn't come into this game to impress you AA23. I came to play the game and I was pretty damn convinced zwets was scum at the time.

[hewitt]

Hewitt hops on a wagon and you don't think anything of it? You don't turn an eye to him?

Uh, I GAVE my reason for voting for zwets I did not just hop on his wagon for no reason.

[hewitt]

I'm perfectly content - - call for help all you want lol "Guys! hewitt! Lets get some dialogue!" lol - - need saving from the very people you duped into killing a towny?

Okay, for one thing I wasn't duped into killing a townie. I voted for someone who I thought was scummy for what I clearly stated as reason. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't even their reasoning, but my own.

[hewitt]

I can't wait till you turn on hewitt/Emp lol

... I'm not in a "group" with dejkha and Empking so there's no reason for them to "turn" on me. I don't understand the point of this statement.

Case on Mix

He hopped on the Zwet wagon when the only thing to change was a number of votes - he chased a lynch to get his night actions started, he threw away his commitment to the Ace case and HYPOCRITICALLY and OPPORTUNISTICALLY

killed a towny

Such a stupid appeal to emotion, he wasn't the only one who "killed" a townie and I for one and most likely a couple others on the wagon did not know he was a townie. You're using this way too much to your advantage.

So here was my thought process on switching my vote.

zwet's playstyle is null. Let me say that up front. However, if you read him over, can't mention specifics as some of the games are currently ongoing, there is a very distinct difference between scumzwet and townzwet. I truly believed that zwet was scum. Now, I never mentioned that before my switch. That, if I am lynched today, will be my downfall. In my honest opinion, the zwet wagon had more backing to it than the Ace wagon. Meaning, that there was more reasoning to it. All I have on Ace, because he refuses to take part, is the fact that he lied. It's as simple as that. I believed that a zwet lynch would: 1) flip scum 2) be more informative. I was right on one of those two. If we continued with an Ace lynch, and he flipped town, we would have absolutely zero content to proceed off of it.

@AA - What is your opinion on Empking now? You're entire wagon you were building on him yesterday was due to the fact that he communicated to his "scumbuddy" Dust. Dust flipped Seer.

So you voted for meta over lying? I don't buy it, at all.

Kham: Who's scum?

You're in this effing game too? Do something so you're not so flipping forgettable.

I don't like Mixologist, I agree with the speculation that he was chasing a lynch and not scum which is so incredibly anti-town I can't believe it. Bloodthirsty scum? Yes, I think so.

Vote: Mixologist

[hewitt]

I see that most of the players here find me scum, so why aren't they voting me? I don't like that at all. Why not?

I don't like this post, it's a blatant attempt to appear to be pro-town.

[hewitt]

@AA- The people you are accusing me of dirtly hoping behind, Ash and hewitt, are now shamelessly hoping on behind you.

I think the reasoning behind my vote is pretty damn good and vote-worthy.

@hewitt- You don't even mention Ace and the fact that he lied. Why did you vote zwet over Ace?

The lie was lost on me, I honestly don't even know what it was. zwets stuck out to me as setting up a scumplay that I didn't think was right. I was wrong, but he seemed scummy to me and I explained my reasoning for voting for zwets pretty clearly.

[hewitt]

hewitt, what do you think of AceMarksman?

I don't really think anything about him honestly. I don't really get the whole lie thing that was kind of lost on me. I think I stated that before.

[hewitt]

@Hewitt- Percy explained the Ace case pretty well. Do you understand why Ace was lying now? And why do you continue to hardly post and post little when you do.

Okay I get it now and that was pretty flipping dodgy of AceMarksmen but I'm still going to have to stick with my vote for Mixologist. Between the two I think Mix is the scummier play and did a scummier move.

@hewitt: dej's question jogged my memory.

I see that most of the players here find me scum, so why aren't they voting me? I don't like that at all. Why not?

I don't like this post, it's a blatant attempt to appear to be pro-town.

I had you in the anti-Ace camp, but now you're saying you "don't think anything about him".

You haven't really commented on Ace much at all, with the exception of 436. It gave me the impression you thought he was scum. Was I mistaken?

The only player I had really been thinking about in this game was Mixologist. And AA23 by default because he posts so much but not because I think he's scummy just because he stood out in my mind. I do think that was a shady ass comment by AceMarksmen there, he's probably the second scummiest in my mind.

Vote Count

Mixologist 3 - AA23, AshMC1984, hewitt
AceMarksman 3 - Mixologist, Percy, dejkha
AA23 1 - Empking

[hewitt]

I feel like this is just turning into a dejkha vs. AA23 game.

[hewitt]

I feel like this is just turning into a dejkha vs. AA23 game.

Maybe if you and others started taking part, it wouldn't be that way.

I know but honestly I don't care about your guys' argument. If I had to pick a side I couldn't because I just don't think either side is really compelling.

[hewitt]

I know but honestly I don't care about your guys' argument. If I had to pick a side I couldn't because I just don't think either side is really compelling.

Maybe if you got involved earlier, this wouldn't have been an issue since it wouldn't have been just me and AA. And we're both taking sides on why a particular lynch is better for this day and why people are acting scummy. If you can pick as side, then it's likely you don't agree with either of us.

Alright well I'm going to stick with my vote and my reasonings thanks.

[hewitt]

Hewitt: Three reason why Mix is scum.

No, before I answer this you give me three solid reasons why you're voting Mixologist. You can't just float through this game asking questions.

[hewitt]

For now,

Vote: Hewitt

Are you gonna give a reason?

[hewitt]

Do I really need to? Is it not that obvious? What have you done this game? Answered a few question directed to you and say you agree or disagree with so and so. It's like you only show up when someone references you or you pop up to say you agree or disagree with something. Ash, who was mafia, did the same thing and since you're normally much more active and helpful, I see no reason why you can't be scum with him.

Well that's not entirely true. You would know more than anybody that there are certain games were I just don't get that into and generally tend to be unhelpful. If helpfulness is the sole criteria that you're basing your vote on that actually I might be okay with you voting for me in this game. But activity can be explained in my sig, I'm equally unactive in all three of my current games.

[hewitt]

So Dej thought Zwet was scum, he flipped town - he thought Ace was scum with me, and Ace flipped town - - he voted Hewitt for reasons he could have voted Emp (and figured he'd save Emp for later...that doesn't sound suspiciously like saving someone for a utility lynch) - - and now he's changed his vote to me.

I actually think this is a really interesting point, dejkha has almost always had a bias against zwets/Empking (not saying that's a bad thing I do too) and to vote for me for reasons that apply equally and more accurately on Empking...not really sure if I get that.

I'm sorry, are you gonna vote for Emp? No? How about any other 2 people? I doubt it. I'm not gonna waste a vote on someone that know one else will help lynch.

Um, I would've but I'm not so sure if I'd want to jump on a bandwagon behind you anymore. You usually don't care at all if it's a potential bandwagon or not, you just kind of do it and vote for them.

Vote: dejkha

For what I believe to be uncharacteristic playstyle. dejkha/Empking scumteam? Could be an interesting possibility...

hewitt

Not as active as I would like. Sticks to his guns and does try to speak up when others twist his meaning. Still I don't know who he finds suspicious at this point byound my player slot. hewitt, I know you were voting for me at the end of yesterday but unlike AA23 you haven't slapped your vote right back on me, yet at least. Any reason why?

Who else do you suspect?

I'm pretty sure this post will answer your questions. I didn't slap my vote back on you because I think I was probably wrong and the opposing bandwagon was right so yeah, new target.

It's the "use your fucking brain" kind of hate.

Haaaaaaaaaaa, love it.

I would also like everyone to post their top three suspects, and why they are suspicious to them.

1. dejkha- For reasons stated.
2. Percy- I didn't quote or respond to what Sotty said about Percy but I think he/she? is making a lot of sense with the suspicions on Percy concerning the Dust wagon (which obviously has bugged this entire game).
3. Empking- Most likely scumteam with dejkha, unhelpful, and I come about as close as I can to hating someone online so extra prejudice but whatever. Suck it.

[hewitt]

Here's a quick response since I dont have time to read Percys defense yet.

For what I believe to be uncharacteristic playstyle.

Uncharacteristic playstyle?

Have I almost always voted Empking in the RVS? Yes
Have I always switched that vote to another player if they seem suspicious? Yes
Have I ever started an Empking wagon mid game? No
Has Empking ever not participated in a game to the point that I don't get pissed at him so much? No
Do these all hold true for this game? Yes. So how is this uncharacteristic play?

There was also another game where, like this one, I hardly ever commented on Emp when I was town.

I don't get why you would vote for someone else for the same reasons why you would vote for Empking, and not vote for him instead. That's what I don't get.

2. Percy- I didn't quote or respond to what Sotty said about Percy but I think he/she? is making a lot of sense with the suspicions on Percy concerning the Dust wagon (which obviously has bugged this entire game).

Did you read my response to Sotty's accusations?

Yep, it was so-so.

[hewitt]

When I flip town, will you at least consider the things I have said so far today?

Totally unnecessary appeal to emotion. Ugh, that bothers me.

No one ever starts off at equal standings with Emp at the beginning. He's automatically the scummiest because of how he plays. And because it's impossible to read it, anything scummy he does is a nulltell, while if anyone else does it, it's scummy (assuming it's not part of their playstyle). I could have easily started a wagon on Emp, but for me, their was two options: you or someone I can get a read on, and since I doubt you'll reach a lynch today, I voted hewitt since I knew that wasn't how he normally plays.

So your vote was pretty much 100% based on uncharacteristic gameplay from myself? Which was then resolved by you looking at my other active games and noticing that I was inactive in pretty much all of them?

[hewitt]

@ Hewitt -

I just finished asking Sotty to respond to the above as well, and in light of you noticing the odd choice Dej made for you over Emp, I thought you might have an opinion on it as well.

It's something I didn't even want to bother bringing up because of the ridiculous headache it would be to follow through on. I mean, I don't like starting wagons on gut feelings - it's not fair to any player (scum or town)

But it could make sense.

When I made this alt account, I was interested in experimenting different gameplay than my normal routines. This is the first AA23 game I've had, and I went into it thinking I'd play that slayer's gambit I always suspected Ace/Zwet of doing
(For those who don't know what that is, it's when you bait yourself as an easy lynch and watch for which scum run for you/uses you - likely kills you but ultimately helps the town)
I didn't have the stomache or patience for it, so I brought up the Dust case. It was

valid

but

weak

(a perfect platform for villains). Nothing ultimately came of it, and I couldn't figure one way or the other who was who, so it was useless to me.

Then the Mix debacle. I abandoned my initial gameplay to persue what I felt was a scum attached to hypocrisy, and variables - - if you're gonna hammer, especially if you only LIKE to hammer - - you damn well better know how to defend it because nobody in Mafiascum believes in a perfectly clean hammer (people ALWAYS turn on the hammer of a mislynch, if even for two posts - but 9/10 the towny can defend why they did it, or at least built up to it by following the wagon - - Mix was out of the blue)

So we have that. You know why I did what I did with Dust, you know I was opposed to the Zwet wagon, you know why I suspected Mix and abandoned trying to lure villains out - - at this time, if Mix(Sotty) is indeed town and my

valid

points are unfortunate variables - - then I do indeed wonder about the scenario in my opening quote to this post.

It's not so crazy - - That Percy and Thesp are mafiascum, and when Ash went down, they figured a quicklynch today would eliminate a towny/enemy to even the score/move closer to a win.

And it would also make sense out of why Dej in uncharacteristic to Emp. Perhaps they are werewolves together.

The numbers make sense, the relationships make sense. It could indeed work.

However - - it's like pressing a drill to your temple and piercing right through to try and prove it. I don't know if I have the energy, but if there are any takers on that scenario,

Khamisa, Hewitt, and Sotty, what do you think?

If our votes went toward that theory and we are indeed the townies left over - - it would require other villains hopping on the wagon and risking their own exposure in an attempt to eliminate the opposition (wolf/mafia).

Thoughts?

I would not be surprised in the slightest if that were the case. Especially the part about Empking and dejkha being werewolves together. The Mafia I think are a little more interchangeable as to who I think are the most likely scumteam (as in I'm not quite sure at all). So I think I'm going to stick with my vote.

RESPONDING TO YOUR THING-
I'm sticking with my vote on dejkha, I'm not switching it.

I think Percy is likely to be Ash's partner yes.

Hm sooooo then you're voting for him right? Cause you sound pretty sure of that.

hewitt

- Bizarre abandoning of Mixologist wagon today after refusing to discuss him further yesterday. I don't think he's trying to scumhunt.

How was it bizarre abandonment?

hewitt

is trying to scumhunt? I'm having a very hard time following you there.

Haha okay I'm actually going to have to agree with you here and not Empking. I think I'm sucking in this game so I'm surprised that he's all the sudden defending me. It's weird.

Yes, I noticed you were less active than I've known you to be after you pointed it out.

Well I did just kind of break that because I didn't post in this game in a really long time yet I've been quite active in another game.

So what the hell

Unvote Vote: Empking

It would be a lot better if others join in though. Hewitt perhaps, since I recall him saying he wouldn't mind an Emp lynch.

Ugh, NOW you decide to vote Empking?

[hewitt]

You were third on the Mixologist wagon yesterday, stuck with it when questioned about it, refused to give reasons for it when directly asked, then the next day he's not even on your top 3 list of most likely to be scum, without much mention of why, other than "I think I was probably wrong and the opposing bandwagon was right". The opposing bandwagon referred to seems to be the AceMarksman wagon, which was in fact a townie lynch. That whole bit is incredibly bizarre to me. Why the change of heart?

My whole D2 gameplay sucked ass. I wouldn't even trust myself if I went and read myself in ISO that day so I'm just trying to start fresh this day and try to do better.

Thinking about it - this makes me feel a bit better about Khamisa.

Doesn't make me feel a bit better about Khamisa at all. I never put any clever rouses past scum possibilities. That would be very clever for her to do that if she were scum and slightly less clever of you to reinforce that if you are her partner. I'm not going to be forgetting this exchange that's for sure.

I agree that Khamisa is reading town. When she made this comment:

Hm you as well eh? Well one thing is for sure, if Khamisa is part of a scumteam at least one of you is her partner.

Khamisa - post 148 - - he corrected my own mistake on the set up and expressed a good knowledge of the set up. I think in light of this, that he is planting that, and you, Thesp, are hopping on it because he could be your buddy.

In respect to my endgame hypothesis - - could Percy's place be exchanged with Khamisa, I wonder?

Mafiascum - Khamisa, Thesp, Ash
Wolves - Dej, Mix(Sotty)

I think you've quite literally (or at least almost) hit the nail on the head. I believe that Thesp/Percy are interchangeable as well as Sotty/Empking. With both I believe that Thesp and Empking are the more likely to be part of their respective scumteam. The wolves are more of a threat in my opinion right now (obviously). So I'm very happy with my vote for dejkha (again).

I think Percy is likely to be Ash's partner yes.

Hm sooooo then you're voting for him right? Cause you sound pretty sure of that.

Umm. Yes I am voting for him and have been since my first serious post in this game. You even commented on my case of Percy yourself here and here. This comment is very weird.

Mental lapse. I thought you were voting for someone else...for some reason...?

I don't even think dejkha should be lynched at this point just for this comment right here...

I would, but I'm trying to get past how retarded you are. Guess it's a family thing. Trust me, that's much more distracting. Don't get me wrong though, it hasn't completely gotten you yet because you're still able to form coherent sentences, granted I've never actually seen a retards writing ability but I can't imagine it's very good.

Mod: I'm going to ask for a modkill on dejkha

So inappropriate. I can't even play this game anymore until dejkha is gone. I'm done, this game is over for me until he's out of here.

Rules

• 1.
  This is a game. Have fun. Don't let things get personal.

This game has just gotten way too personal for me.

I'm done. I'm out. I'm gone until dejkha has been removed from this game.

[hewitt]

It does not surprise me at all that Percy was nightkilled. He was pretty much the most pro-town player it looked like to me. The whole dejkha was bussing AA thing is absolutely stupid in my opinion. I agree the dejkha was anti-Empking without setting up a serious attack on him. I'm pretty sure Empking is his partner.

Vote: Empking

[hewitt]

Hewitt can you explain why you asked for a mod kill on dej rather than wait for all the players to check in and give their opinions on the AA v dej debacle?

Are you effing kidding me? Wait for all players to check in and give their opinions on the AA v. dejkha debate that has been ongoing for weeks? If you hadn't already stated your opinions before the modkill I don't really care that's kind of your own fault. I'm not going to apologize for asking for a modkill on dejkha after what he said. I thought (and ThAdmiral thought) it was the most appropriate action.

I'm V/LA until 7/3. My vote stands strong with Empking.

[hewitt]

I agree that dej went waaay over the line and deserved the modkill. I am not arguing that at all.

The fact is now we won't know for sure if the mod would have killed him without you calling for him to be mod killed. It also robs the town of actually lynching dej which takes away a lot of information. You had your vote on him, I know that I was willing to change to him after how out of hand he got, I'm sure several others would have as well.

I'm nooot quite sure what you're getting at here but I would still do it again in a heartbeat.

Vote Count

Empking 3 - Hewitt, Khamisa, Thesp
Sotty7 1 - AA23
AA23 1 - Empking

Empking is -1

[hewitt]

Honestly I don't have hard evidence on why Empking is a wolf. However, I believe the way dejkha acted towards Empking was shockingly out of character and implies a scum connection. I thought this before dejkha was modkilled and I'm reinforced by that with the knowledge that dejkha was a wolf. The weak pursuit against Empking and quick abandonment by dejkha showed to me scum who is attempting to not make ties with his scum partner but it was so out of character with how he normally reacts to Empking that I can't ignore it. I agree, AA23, that the Sotty case is strong and compelling. But I'm much more convinced that Empking is scum than Sotty at the moment.

[hewitt]

Dej only gets me lynched if you or AA are dupporting him. That's not the case here.. So its not out of chatracter. Its in character.

And this even strikes me as out of character for Empking. I don't think I've ever had him give me a "rational" response without just calling me scum or saying I'm lying. I'm not sure what you're implying though, that dejkha needed me or AA23 on his side to start a bandwagon against you? I doubt that, considering I was not an influential enough player early on this game to be needed. He probably could have easily used me as a pawn.

However, AA23 I actually trust that you're right on this one so...

Unvote, Vote: Sotty7

[hewitt]

Okay I'm going to try to ignore the blatantly pathetic appeal to emotion by Sotty7.

[hewitt]

I always agreed with AA23. I think I've actually stated that a couple times but that I felt Empking was more likely to be dejkha's scum partner. I don't think I believe that anymore so I switched my vote over to you. So what's with the appeals to emotion?

[hewitt]

So wait. Sotty7 what are you reasonings for suspecting me as one of the top two wolf probabilities?

[hewitt]

So basically your case on me is that I've not done much (almost not doing as much as Empking, who's done less), I didn't care much about a case you created, and that you don't feel right about me requesting a modkill on dejkha (who turned out to be a wolf).

I guess if you're his wolf partner that wouldn't feel right to you would it?

[hewitt]

Sotty7 if I were dejkha's wolf partner would it honestly make much sense to request a modkill on him? I mean really if I'm a wolf I'm going to play as viciously as I can to win but I've never bussed a scumbuddy and leaving me all by myself would be suicide because I haven't been a consistently strong enough player in this game for town to keep around for very long. I would have no shot at winning. It's WIFOM yes, but true.

And I do think it would be a scummy move to build a case on me at this point like you are because I'm such an easy target right now. This isn't appeal to emotion I'm not saying woe is me I'm admitting that I sucked early on in the game so I would be a pretty opportune scum driven lynch.

[hewitt]

I can't say I approve of AA23's tunneling but it's been pretty consistent with his playstyle all throughout this game and it's consistent with how I've played with him before.

[hewitt]

Yes I do believe that Empking was acting scummy when I said that and I'm not quite sure where you got that second quoted question from? Not sure how to answer that.

And I will admit there was another motive for me requesting a modkill on dejkha. Being 100% honest here. I was really really sure that he was a wolf. So I jumped on the fact that he said something that I found incredibly offensive and used that to my advantage to get him out of this game as quickly as possible so that the town wouldn't be misdirected into what I thought was going to be a mislynch. Just to clarify the exact reasonings behind my request for a modkill. The alternative motive was much more secondary to the bigger motive though and that was to get somebody who I felt made an inexcusable and X-rated offensive insult out of the game because it's against the rules and unpleasant to play with.

[hewitt]

Sotty7- I'm not quite sure what you're trying to point out to me. I separately posted that AA23's playstyle matches my meta on him and Empking's does not. And it could have potentially not given the town information that was important. But my main reasoning was not I was sure of a wolf flip but that I was offended by his actions and I wasn't going to play until he was out. So I wouldn't have been pushing harder against him, I was going to not post until he was gone.

[hewitt]

I think this is going to become a stalemate pretty damn quickly.

[hewitt]

It's a stalemate now. That's my opinion. I think it's pretty well figured out and the mafia are smart enough to not fall for the town's trap.

And here's how, assuming this is true then the stalemate makes sense and everything about why Sotty7 isn't gaining a fourth vote makes sense.

Sotty7 is the werewolf. He's got three votes on him from the town players, myself, AA23, and Empking. Which leaves Khamisa and Thesp as the mafia. If one of the mafia players vote Sotty7 they automatically lose because they have no nightkills and we will lynch them the next two days.

[hewitt]

First before I answer your questions Thesp does that not makes sense? If you two are the mafia you can't win, because we will lynch you. Does that hypothesis not make sense?

[hewitt]

A mafia death for the town would not be helpful for the town under the assumption that said players above are who they are. If the wolf is dead the town has complete control of the town and can finish the game off. A mafia death would be stupid right now opposed to a wolf lynch. That's why the mafia doesn't want to lynch the wolf and don't play the dumb act because I'm sure you realized this way before I did.

[hewitt]

Right now I'm not thinking of Sotty7 as mafia, obviously.

[hewitt]

It could be, that would mean the wolf is still out there.

[hewitt]

If Empking is somehow lynched and he flips wolf then I obviously won't think you're the wolf anymore lol.

[hewitt]

I think AA is town.

Sotty: If you flipped town then I would read the game and cose out of the non-shewiits.

I agree on the first.

What does "cose out of the non-shewiits" mean? I'm not familiar with that phrase.

That word vaguely resembles my name?

[hewitt]

Wow I'm kind of disappointed that's all Khamisa had to say...

[hewitt]

*Sighs* I don't even know where to begin with that question.

[hewitt]

I want a deadline.

[hewitt]

I'm 100% not unvoting soooo yeah unless Empking or AA23 plans on unvoting somebody might as well hammer you and not drag this out for a nother week.

[hewitt]

At this point it doesn't even matter because the scum know they've been caught and it really would be just easier for all of us if you just ended it yourself. If I were scum I'd probably be doing the same thing you're doing and trying to draw it out til the end but you've got to realize by know that you're over.

[hewitt]

Let's think about it this way for a second Sotty7/Thesp/khamisa. I'm confirmed town. And I'm confirmed town because that's what I received as my role. There are two mafia and one wolf in this game along with two other town. Are you trying to tell me that I'm on a wagon with two mafia? Who won't hammer and win? Or are you trying to tell me that one mafia is with me and one mafia is with you guys. Or that I'm with one other town player and the wolf and I'm voting for the sole town player on your side?

Right now you're actually insulting my intelligence in thinking that I would be stupid enough to switch on to the Empking case and by putting your three votes on Empking and not hammering Sotty7 you are doing exactly that.

WE ARE NOT STUPID. Now end the fucking game so we can mark this up as a win in our records already. You lost- get over it. Are you really not going to be man enough to admit that you've got mafia and the wolf on your side? Because if not then one of those scenarios up above must be true. And I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

[hewitt]

You didn't at all address the situations I posted.

[hewitt]

Thesp I'm asking you to see it from my perspective.

[hewitt]

THESP! I am asking you if you think it's plausible that I, as a town player, am voting with two mafia, one mafia and one town, or one wolf and one town.

[hewitt]

Who else would Sotty7 vote for if he's the wolf?

[hewitt]

It basically just comes down to your three's attitude vs. AA23's attitude. I don't really know how else to explain it. This whole entire game it's just been AA23 who's been so pro-town in my opinion and running the game just like when I was scum in another game (if you want the game I'll have to go look it up) and I got caught in the end. Empking is a little iffier though I will give you that.

[hewitt]

lol so what are you Sotty7?

[hewitt]

Vote: Empking

For self-preservation reasons. I'm fairly certain he's not town with me so if anything is going to go down tie-breaker/whatever at least I'll be comforted that the person I think most likely to be the wolf has the first vote.

[hewitt]

If Empking is scum I do specifically think he's wolf. Mainly on part of his relationship with dejkha this game and yesterday I found something really interesting and scummy on his part...

Sotty: If you cange your vote to Thesp, I will too.

(Thesp is acting very much like Mafia and I don't want him to win with a double lynch.)

[hewitt]

Oh I forgot to mention that I'm not sure who the town player is. I thought it was AA23 on D4 but after his first post today I'm back to square one.

[hewitt]

Woot okay so here comes the verdict...

And if there's a tomorrow AA23 quit being an ass.

[hewitt]

I just can't see AA23 on the same team as any of the scum so far this game.

Vote: Thesp

[hewitt]

fuuuuuuck yeah! sorry sotty7 about that. but once you were gone it was obvious empking was the wolf and thesp was the mafia. good job though. good game all!

[hewitt]

true i mean the cases on his part weren't very good but i had to win this game at any means possible and i was really sure AA23 was town so i couldn't fight him too much.

and now that the game is over i'll admit the request to modkill dejkha in the thread was 100% strategic and not the least bit personal.

[hewitt]

i also have to say thesp's biggest mistake was not distancing himself from khamisa and not attacking me. i think he should've been a little more focused on attacking me instead of AA23 because i think there was a bigger possibility of turning the town against me and accusing me of being the mafia instead of AA23. the mafia tried a little but not hard enough.

[hewitt]

to thesp- i think the best chance to attack me would have been after my actions regarding mixologist. so i think a slow build up discrediting my actions are scummy play should've been started D2 and i think you could've gotten the town to take me out D4 by then. then again i'd been gearing up against said attack (which never came) so it might not have worked anyways. i think you could have easily discredited me as town though. all you had to do was convince aa23 that i was scummy and i'm sure sotty7 would've been fine with a lynch on me too. i don't think either of them thought of me as overly pro-town.