Pie E7- (Open 129): Game Over before 762

[alexhans]

Great... I

vote Wall-E

for taking so long to confirm

[alexhans]

Hm nice mix of old faces plus some new ones to me.

who do you know?

[alexhans]

I don't follow the hewit, empking, dejkha thing... Is it from a past game? Can you tell me the number so I have some fun reading it and maybe gather some meta too?

[alexhans]

I have only one finished game and it's in my wiki (I got killed N1). Just press the button. Also I was killed N1 in mini normal 743 but that's still ongoing and I'm alive in a couple of ongoing games but I wouldn't be able to answer questions about them because it's against the rules.
However... IF you want to read them anyway... mini normal 714, 761 and newbie 744

[alexhans]

Also... Has anyone bothered to analize the game? It's a pretty anti-town setup...
if we mislynch day 1 there will be 4 vs 2. If they get their kill. 3 vs 2. Lylo. We can have a lylo in day 2. and we have a 5/7 of getting into that situation.

[alexhans]

dejkha sugested the scum.metagaming search...
zwetschenwasser says he plays better being scum... if he is town he will play like a crazed baboon apparently...

So I assume that means you don't like helping town then, correct?

Actually, no. It means that I find this game fun, and I like poking fun at people and making jokes more than sitting down and trying to act logical. But I do like to help town.

I don't like this at all. I have fun but being ilogical won't help town... And if you're way too funny and poke too much and avoid questions with smileys you'll probably be lynched.

Regarding the setup... I've seen on the wiki that it isn't pro-scum... apparently:

Pie E7 is an Open Setup game which features a Day Start and consists of the following roles:

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker (for balance reasons, the Roleblocker should also be able to nightkill even if the Goon is dead; see this thread for arguments on the matter)
1 Sane Cop
1 Doctor
3 Townies
This setup was used for a time as a Newbie Setup as a replacement for the somewhat unbalanced C9, but turned out to be somewhat unbalanced toward the Town.
Note: The "E7" portion of the name is a bit of a misnomer, since unlike "C9" which it is based on, the game involves no variability of roles.

That's why we have a doc and cop. Hopefully they'll make good use of their night actions before being killed.

I also find it interesting the dejkha assumes the PRs will be killed. Why do you assume that?

Because I'm scum and I know who the cop and doc are!!!!! Sorry guys, but you can't pin that one on me. Neither scum, nor town, have any idea who doc or cop is until they claim or are killed. So don't go trying to say I know who they are. I also say they would be killed because we have a 2/5 chance of one of them being killed. Hewitt, this isn't a perfect game and most aren't, so it's silly to assume the perfect scenario will play out.

I'll keep in mind how you tried to use that against me without reasoning though, Hasd. There's no way I could know who cop or doc are unless I am one. Which means, scum doesn't even know who cop or doc is. So trying to use that against me is quite the a stretch.

I must say I was a bit surprised by this post... Like he totally overreacted to a question that was probably meant to spark some discussion. He said he found it interesting and dej started going on about how he was implying that he knew roles... dont pin it on him... etc.
Then he attacked hasd (really... what crappy nicknames you have... we'll have to find a way to abrev. them and make them understandable.) saying the supposed argument was flawed because scum didn't know who their roles were. So why all the fuss? If you had just stated that it wasn't probable to have a perfect game it would've sufficed... If there's no real argument there's no need to defend so strongly...

Empking voted for dej... for being defensive...

regarding the claims... The only role that can safely claim is the cop. Because he will be protected that night by the doc. But he will probably be blocked. So it will not be useful at all. If the doc claims... we're screwed. They kill him the next night and no one can do anything about it.

So... I'm not a fan of claiming in this game... you'd better use your wit to defend yourselves.


then some random fighting happened.
then zwets voted dej.

WTF? You just blew a fuse there as if you were a nervous wreck about something! Defensive much?

1. That's hardly a "case"

I have to agree with this. you vote in a one-line-one-subjective-argument post... that's not much. I'm not gonna speak about 2. because disrespecting others is not nice. not even in-game.

Overdefensiveness is a scumtell.

I disagree. If I'm about to get lynched I'll defend myself in every way possible. It's a null tell. Overreacting to a question is another thing.

Unvote

I think we need a vote count since things have changed a bit around here.

[alexhans]

Overdefensiveness is a scumtell.

I disagree. If I'm about to get lynched I'll defend myself in every way possible. It's a null tell. Overreacting to a question is another thing.

Unvote

I think we need a vote count since things have changed a bit around here.

No it isn't. That's why they call it "Over", also you can't be over-defensive when you're very close to lynch so your ancedote doesn't mean anything.

Yeah... But you should look at the context... It's not how much pages you write to defend yourself but the way in wich you do it... If you jump on random vote stage calling the one's who voted for you scum for instance.

[alexhans]

the empking thing is not funny anymore hasd...

I believe there's not much case in dehjka's pessimism regarding the roles...

Up till now Empking IS a bit suspicious... read his posts in isolation... not a single question to scum hunt anyone? wow...

hasd hasn't said much either yet... It feels like this game isn't starting but pushing an unargumented lynch with is stupid.

Zwet's play mi not liking... Not the Sinle “no” posts not his 1 line posts...

So up till now... the one most likely to be town for me is dehjka.

[alexhans]

He's saying that you haven't asked a single question that would show that you're scumhunting.

Alex: If Dejhka is telling the truth. Why did you lie?

dude... look at your posts in isolation... you said two lines... voted for dej

For spamming up the thread with not-useful and acting really defensive, mostly the last point.

later stated you we're happy with your vote leaving no space for further discussion... in 73 you stated that you were positive about dej's scummyness...

The only thing you did later was ask wall-e to explain why he had said the case on dej was garbage... I think we have to try to prove someone guilty and not just tell others to prove him innocent...

I wan't to hear wall-e's answer anyway.

Right now... I think you haven't done a single thing to scum hunt. No. Nothing really. I'm trying to be as clear as possible.

And what's this...?

He's saying that you haven't asked a single question that would show that you're scumhunting.

Alex: If Dejhka is telling the truth. Why did you lie?

Some kind of a trick question to make me or dej look bad? What are you a lawyer? FoS on you mate:

FoS Empkling

.
What does everyone else think of Empkings post? maybe my perception is wrong... But I don't think so...

[alexhans]

I don't like the fact that hasdgfas posted twenty-nine minutes after being prodded which leads me to believe he was lurking heavily and since then (two days ago) has not posted again. And Wall-E has not posted in four days after picking up a prod. I believe that these two could be scum and are planning on just sliding under the radar since they know we've got quite strong personalities in this game who may self-destruct as town. So I'm going to retract my ridiculous vote.

Ok... I understand your points but saying that 2 scummies are planning to lurk to the point of getting prodded together...? That doesn't make so much sense... 1 is possible... even probable... Both of them I don't think so...

so if the game continues the way it has, I'm going to have to be replaced. I will not play with people who act like this with each other.
I haven't posted because I don't want to get in the middle of this ridiculous argument. If I don't get some measure of assurance that we're through with that, I'm done.

This is Mafia man... endure. You could always post something useful besides the ridiculous argument you say there is.

I would much prefer a lurker lynch than a policy lynch. More likely to catch scum...obviously.

I would like to avoid both.

Have you seen anything else important?

Yes, and I listed about 6 or 7, so should I assume you stopped reading altogether?

it all looks like the silly argument right now

Bad way to dismiss a good point.

Wow, it looks like you're refusing to see anything other than an argument or you haven't been reading. Either way, it's not good.

I'm sorry that everything looks like the argument. When that's all that's happened in the past 5 pages, that's what everything looks like. In a couple days, I should be able to look at everything, but I'm currently in the week of doom right now at school and don't really have time to look through everything. It's mostly skimming, and while skimming, it looks like argument.

You're switching arguments here man... first it was the stupid argument... now it's school... I can understand being busy but not switching like that under pressure.

I would think twenty-nine minutes is a little convenient after a couple of days absence.

Err... Too farfetched... Not valid as an argument in my book. Sorry hewitt.

I would think twenty-nine minutes is a little convenient after a couple of days absence.

QFT

why?

Because we need to do something to keep him from lurking. Votes may be just the thing.

Votes that he knows won't lead to lynches?

come on man... Not every vote you make is gonna be parked forever. It CAN change.

They will if they have to.

So you were going for a lurker lynch.

This... I think... Is what is sucking so much about this game... The role playing of lawyers trying to trap (with 1 line sentences) his victims. We got the point. No need to go over and over and over it again. And if you do... do it clearly in an organized post... This is not a chat.

And Wall-E was just hammered??

what gave you that impression? we are a bit lost aren't we?
to clarify: I think it was the quote of Empking and the following post by dej that talked about a hammer. But they were discussing the vote on wall-e by dej... that wasn't made to lynch him just yet but to make him appear... react... do something...

[alexhans]

I haven't read everything but Ill quickly say this... Look at 761... Im playing it with Wall-e and he was lynched just like that... for playing scummyly and active lurking. Here he is only lurking. I prefer that he is replaced. But not myslynched. We can't afford those here.

Ill read later what everybody wrote after my post and give my thoughts about it.

[alexhans]

Alex: Write a paragraph detailing Dejhka's favorite colour.

??? I don't follow.

I have no idea. I'm just guessing at this point everybody's on a different wavelength than me but that's alright I'll get over it. And thank you Empking for saying something that I finally agree with and I will stick to no matter what.

Dont worry... We're all disagreeing with each other. In everything.

I think putting a lurker at L-1 without questions asked would be a good way to pull them into the game without the intention of lynching them at first. If they don't, then I'd consider it acceptable to lynch them.

Well... I can understand the pressure but not the consideration... Lynching lurkers just for lurking is a Big NO in my book.


Crap... He only made 3 posts... last 1 March 29... the game started on March 23.
This are Wall-e's posts

/confirm

vote: hewitt

smells like poo

The "case" against dejka is utter garbage.

MOD

: I don't care if he hasnt picked the prod or if he does later. We REALLY need to replace him. We are loosing time here. He does not want to play the game... He is only spoiling it.
Anyone who agrees say AYE!

Also... It would be better if people quoted the questions they are answering because sometimes it can get difficult to follow. Thank you

[alexhans]

Well... I can understand the pressure but not the consideration... Lynching lurkers just for lurking is a Big NO in my book.

I like to think it's similar to russian roulette in the sense that if he goes in knowing the gun's empty, then he won't care. He'll just do it and be done. You have to make it mean something. Every pull of the trigger brings you closer and closer to your demise. That's why you throw in a single bullet. So he knows it'll happen if he doesn't stop. Pressure means nothing if it doesn't have an eventual consequence.

that's why we disagree then... I doubt the usefulness of voting someone for lurking expecting to get real info...

If I vote a lurker for pressure (but knowing that I might lynch him because otherwise it would have no effect), he doesnt respond... I lynch him? I DONT like it. Why vote in the first place... FoS him... call his attention... I don't know. Say you're incredibly suspicious of his lurking.

Well... that's just it... I find your gameplay wrong. Wich is MY opinion and I should be entitled to have it. I hope we settle that so we don't argue unnecesarily.

[alexhans]

Alex, honestly, I wasn't intending on lynching him. But now since everyone made me admit to it being just pressure, it defeats the point and now I have to lynch him if he doesn't get replaced.

You could always admit you were wrong... They told me it doesn't hurt but I wouldn't know...

[alexhans]

You know Zwet, I would calm down if I were you. If he flips scum, I'm coming after you for your anger at us voting for him (and other reasons of course).

I don't see why you should... I don't agree with that lynch as well. But we could avoid all those *thingies* and short messages that are not REAL discussion.

[alexhans]

PRUFT

a.k.a. plum brandy. The 5-word post wunderkind.

I don't find it funny or cute Zwets... I don't think your style is very helpful for the town.
I've went to your profile and looked through your posts only to find out that it is your general gameplay... your "style...
I would like to ask you to make an exception for this game... we are in desperate need of decent playing and real scumhunting... No one is giving much info with those hollow posts...

Dej and Has want to lynch Wall-e just for lurking...

This game is a mixture of weird personalities and/or gameplay.
One Lurker
One Active Lurker
One that doesn't want to back up one single statement
One crazed baboon
One that doesn't post and doesn't give reasons for his votes.
One unclassified.
And me... (insert the flaw of your liking)

Try to decide who is who...

I want Wall-e replaced but if his replacement doesn't make the game any better I'll start coming down harder on everyone...

[alexhans]

Oh. What is unclassified supposed to mean?

really...? that I couldn't find a decent flaw in you... but if you want one... I'd go with "Confused Player"...
I think you're the most decent player in the game by the way.

I'm perfect, so I can't imagine I'm any of those.

SCUMSCUMSCUM!!!!

Unvote; Vote: Dejkha

So he totally ignored my post...

FoS:Zwets

Give reasons... not stupid CAPS.

MOD:

What's up with the Wall-e thing?

[alexhans]

Trying to psychologically sway the town into thinking that he's town.

what? You're trying to do it? Hew is trying to do it? I don't really follow... Please... Take your time to explain in more than one sentence the reasons behind your dej vote.

[alexhans]

I think he's saying by voting me, he's trying to make people think I'm town because his playstyle is horrible and people won't listen to what he says. So, in short, I think he's trying to use reverse psychology. It's still a horrible reason though.

But why would he try to make you look town? Does he think you're town? Why?

@Zwets: Come on man... Help us here.

Wall-e posted last on 29 March... more than 7 days ago...

MOD?

are you looking for a replacement or something?

[alexhans]

Alex: Write a paragraph detailing Dejhka's favorite colour.

??? I don't follow.

I want to see if you can do it without asking questions. Can you?

What do you mean by this? That he's my alternate account or something? Or perhaps my brother?

No, I don't know him. This is the first time I play a mafia game with him. And if is something to test my abilities... I don't know... I don't think I'm that good at analizing people... But Red is a pretty common favourite color so maybe I could've guessed. And his avatar is red-orange-ish...

Vote Count #3
Currently searching for a replacement for Wall-E

finally...

Unvote

Vote: Wall-E

This isn't town lurking.

Why wasn't it?

Unvote

Didn't know he was being replaced.

How would you know if the mod hadn't written in a long time? Were you conscious he was at L-1?

[alexhans]

hewitt hit the nail on the head.

meaning? will we always have to ask translation from you?

Unvote Vote: Zwet

please don't vote like this... accompany it with reasons in the future.

How he reacted to my reaction at the beginning and post 115 where I show how he unnecessarily argued something he knew was true. And also how he's ok with people lurking the whole game. Or at least, he's ok with Wall-E doing it. Even though Wall-E's being replaced I wouldn't be surprised if they're scum buddies.

Zwets and me agree on finding lurking a null tell... I prefer people to replace (as Wall-e's case now). I don't believe he ever said that lurking the whole game (wich is impossible since you get replaced) is fine.
This is 115.

Where did I imply that I agree with him?

I restated what I said earlier, only I elaborated on it. I still don't think it was scummy for that reason.

Where did I say you had to agree with him?

The point is that you actually took the time to respond logically to him for the same case that I made that you dismissed as stupid.

What was the point of arguing that you implied that I agreed with him if you just admitted you did by saying: "I'm pissed off that

you RECOGNIZE that what I'm saying is true

"?

Seems a little scummy that you'd argue an observation that you knew was true. And like I repeatedly said, I don't think it's true, nor did I say I thought it was.

I think there's no valid reasons for your vote Dej... At all.
The scummy thing I found about Zwets is his insane and unhelpfull 5 word posting...

[alexhans]

So alexhans who do you think would be the smartest lynch right now?

Dude... Hard question... I've learned not to rush in this games because when I followed the trend I was usually wrong... I don't feel we have strong evidence on anyone yet but if I had to go with my gut I'd probably lynch Emp or Zwets. And we still haven't heard a single thing from Wall-e/replacement so I think we should take our time to lynch someone.

[alexhans]

Unvote: Vote Zwetschenwasser

The game, in my opinion, begins with zwet flipping out, a scumtell imho, and then in post 188 some content appears (finally) but the major thing happening here is policy argument and lurker-discussion. My only comment is to say that I frequently use my votes for things other than lynching - pressure is mafia's engine of sorrow.

Zwet, what is up with the flip-out? I've never seen you lose your cool like that. You can consider this a meta-read vote on you if you can't explain it to me so that I can understand better. The outburst seemed uncalled-for.

oh my god... What kept you so long? Also... Are you gonna be commited to the game? we need someone that reads and writes often. And you need to catch up mate. There are a lot of things you can comment on. What happened to you all this days?

[alexhans]

Wall-E's typical play style is to cause a huge ruckus and get lynched, providing things for the rest of the town to wonder about for the rest of the game. He always comes back after the game is over and brags about how awesome he is, too, and that's really annoying. I hope he gets tired of this site soon.

Wall-E uses ad hominem all the time. He's a huge jerk and I hate him.

wall-e killed my family with his rhetoric

wall-e wrote this wiki entry anyway so whatever

you're twice as silly for reading it

Great, just great... You think spoiling the game of other people is fun? Why were you lurking in this one? I hope you would've got tired before joining up in an open game with only 7 people were 1 mislynch can fuck with the town's chances.

[alexhans]

It's called "Content." I can understand your unfamiliarity, considering most of your posts in this game. (oh snap)

yeah... well... you could've quoted a couple of posts to make it easier to read... I had to go comparing every post number in another window to understand what you were talking about...
And you could be a little less aggressive dude... After lurking, for whatever reasons, for such a long time it was only me and Zwets who prevented your lynch so be a bit more thankful and if you have accusations or tips express them in a nice manner. Don't start gaining enemies faster than you can handle them.

dej/Walle scumpair, everyone?

WHY??? WHY??? For god sake give one reason!!! don't just make comments in the air!

I feel Wall-e's 280 is a lot of opinionated readings but I appreciate the effort. I await to see the theories he mentioned to be thinking. The thing I don't like is that Wall-e doesn't say why a something is not of his liking or scummy or whatever... he just says number X is bullshit, number Z is WIFOM or a pack of lies, number Y is interesting... That's not really helpful and demands a huge effort from the readers.

Wow, it looks like you're refusing to see anything other than an argument or you haven't been reading. Either way, it's not good.

I'm sorry that everything looks like the argument. When that's all that's happened in the past 5 pages, that's what everything looks like. In a couple days, I should be able to look at everything, but I'm currently in the week of doom right now at school and don't really have time to look through everything. It's mostly skimming, and while skimming, it looks like argument.

You're switching arguments here man... first it was the stupid argument... now it's school... I can understand being busy but not switching like that under pressure.

You're being intentionally sematical here, alexhans, and it's crap. Cut it out.

regarding this... Is the next post an admission that you think you were wrong?

It's not content. It's you posting an assortment of random bullshit like, "I don't like how you worded this part of your post. Stop now!"

The admonishment was well-intentioned and, I think, for the overall good of the town. Do you disagree with the admonishment?

Ah, I read this part again and I'd like to retract my admonishment. I admonished unjustly. I thought has was making the comparison of the 'argument' between dej, Emp and zwet as grade-school-like rather than an excuse for lurking.

As far as lurking excuses go, I agree that two different ones is a scumtell.

Or you really think that my call on hasd is really a semantic issue...?

Did you finally understand why dej said "Was that a hammer?"?

do you think Zwets, Emp or Has are active lurking?

[alexhans]

Wow, that "only if you let me live" was certainly a scum tell even if it wasn't AtE. Dejkha and Alex are also acting pretty buddyish to him, mostly Alex with Wall-E QFT type post and Alex's "be grateful" coaching.

What you mean by AtE?
Have you at least read why I didn't want to have Wall-e lynched prematurely?
Do you understand what I asked of Wall-e?
I don't want him to rush a vote without giving understandable content. So that could mean I'm buddying Zwets in addition to Wall-e. And then... I've defended Dej's points in some points in the game... So according to you I'm buddying half the players in the game.
And you still won't give us content. You only issue a few statements that accuse some people and keep your active lurking. You avoid to give opinions on anything in particular... you just say some isolated accussations without argumenting them and go to sleep again. And I don't speak more against this... god... this was all you had to ask? 190 a stupid sherlockholmian attempt to pair me with dej???

Wow. I agree with Empking's post completely.

So... you are agreeing that my defense on Wall-e and attempt to make him provide us with content is buddying? Then what about you...? You weren't in favour of lynching Wall-e when most were trying to... Now that Wall-e voted for you you seem to have hurt feelings and wanting his lynch...

Many of you would've liked to see Wall-e lynched as a lurker. Later, he made one post (not very good in my opinion) and most jumped at his throat like trying to make a quicklynch. It would be stupid to be calling for him for so many days to lynch him without asking him questions and seeing how he reacts. I find the eagerness to quicklynch a player who is not yet on the game scummy. If you think I'm protecting Wall-e as a scumbuddy or buddying him remember what I told you about how he was lynched in 761... I don't want a mislynch here. As I've stated earlier... I don't think we can afford it.

[alexhans]

I don't want him to rush a vote without giving understandable content. So that could mean I'm buddying Zwets in addition to Wall-e. And then... I've defended Dej's points in some points in the game... So according to you I'm buddying half the players in the game.

No I didn't. Putting words into people's mouths is a (pretty major) scum tell.

You think I put words in your mouth? I'm just trying to reason. You stated that me and dej where buddying with Wall-e and that made me angry because it's just ridicoulous. Read all my posts where I want him replaced or I judge him for a lot of things I don't like. I just feel it is better not to be aggresive because it can make players to shut like a clam forgetting they're supposed to scum hunt.

And you still won't give us content. You only issue a few statements that accuse some people and keep your active lurking. You avoid to give opinions on anything in particular... you just say some isolated accussations without argumenting them and go to sleep again. And I don't speak more against this... god... this was all you had to ask? 190 a stupid sherlockholmian attempt to pair me with dej???.

So I accuse you so you instead of rationally respond to the argument (or whatever word you want to use) you instead just just try and say I'm scum?

(BTW, I think giving my opinions on people in a non-parotting fashion stops me from Active Lurking.)

You got it all wrong. I was mad at you for suggesting something I find so annoying. I hate that when I try to avoid a mislynch somebody comes and accuse me of buddying... come on man! I'm trying to find scum. I couldn't care less If suddenly Wall-e votes me (with reasons). I'm not gonna expect any kind of loyalty or if we lynch Wall-e and he flips town expect that to be a proof of my innocence. I just want to do what's best for the town and that includes trying to sway town into a lynch I approve.
I didn't try and said you were scum... I just pointed out that I didn't like your post, AT ALL, especially regarding your playstyle up till now. Even though I agree with you that it is better to post that kind of things than to continue with your active lurking. I won't mention that again if you keep in the game, asking questions.

Does someone have a camera? I think this is the moment where Empking is finally starting to play decently!

I'm not gonna get tired of asking you:
WHY? give reasons behind your posts. Don't just say things.

There can be an appeal to emotion and still mean that they're not necessarily scum. It is scummy but it does not automatically mean they're scum, I'll need a little bit more than that to lynch someone.

QFT

Eh? AtE is a HECKUVA big scumtell.

really? Why?

It's a scumtell but there are worse charges.

Um... not many.

I'm done with zwet's... I don't know if he is deliberately confusing everyone or just having fun but surely he is not helping.

Wow, it looks like you're refusing to see anything other than an argument or you haven't been reading. Either way, it's not good.

I'm sorry that everything looks like the argument. When that's all that's happened in the past 5 pages, that's what everything looks like. In a couple days, I should be able to look at everything, but I'm currently in the week of doom right now at school and don't really have time to look through everything. It's mostly skimming, and while skimming, it looks like argument.

You're switching arguments here man... first it was the stupid argument... now it's school... I can understand being busy but not switching like that under pressure.

You're being intentionally sematical here, alexhans, and it's crap. Cut it out.

regarding this... Is the next post an admission that you think you were wrong?

Are you talking to me here?

yes. Look at the said post and tell me if you said you were wrong or it was an entirely different issue.

regarding the friendship issue. I just want to say that I find it better if everyone just lowers the agressiveness of their accusations. We still can come strong on someone without insulting him or criticizing him so strongly. Those Scum calls annoy me. No town can be sure who is scum at this point, we can only guess.
I'm not saying that you should make friends and not vote for them ever if you find them scummy, I'm just saying... try to cool and investigate in a more calm manner because this game is getting out of our hands.

[alexhans]

Alex: You might have wanted him to be replaced but that doesn't stop you from buddying up with him now he's here and you might not want his loyalty but you definately want his gratitude.

whatever man... I just wanted him to help the town not to make me out of inquiry. Given how he was lynched in the other game you should understand my renuence to quicklynch him here. I'm trying to mold him so he can scum hunt... I couldn't care less if he considers me town or not.

[alexhans]

edit: there's a comma there

I just wanted him to help the town

,

not to make me out of inquiry

otherwise it might not be clear.

[alexhans]

Alex: You might have wanted him to be replaced but that doesn't stop you from buddying up with him now he's here and you might not want his loyalty but you definately want his gratitude.

whatever man... I just wanted him to help the town not to make me out of inquiry. Given how he was lynched in the other game you should understand my renuence to quicklynch him here. I'm trying to mold him so he can scum hunt... I couldn't care less if he considers me town or not.

Who?

We're talking about Wall-e arent we?

[alexhans]

If I'm not completely wrong Zwets is at L-1 and Wall-e at L-2... I think Zwets have been the scummiest so far. Wall-e is looking a bit scummy but I want to analyze him better. I'm a bit wary of Emp and hasd too, got not much read on them. dej and hewitt my current town reads...

[alexhans]

dude... This is a setup with 5 town and 2 scum... If you Fos me you think I'm scum, right? But if I'm scum... why do I need to tell my partner who to nk? Your logic is crap. And you're trying to put pressure on people just to avoid the pressure on you.

FoS:Wall-e

(and don't dare tell me it's an OMGUS FOS, it has reasons.)

[alexhans]

I'm amazed at this sudden attack at hewitt without any reason...
That's why Zwets and Wall-e are definetly in my scum list. I can't decide if they're bad players or just hiding in that scummy ways to go unharmed. The bad thing is that if we don't lynch any of you you will still be here tomorrow to mess with our play.

Anyway, I think hew has much more a case than any of you. His low activity in the beginning. He's different playstyle not matching his meta. When I questioned him he attacked me on ISO 15. His weak case on dej.

The lurker hunt coming from Dej seems like scum trying to get a lurker lynch.

Then he voted for Wall-e as a lurker. His lawyer attitude trying to trap dej. The weird color thing he asked me. The buddyish accusation... He never actually scum hunted but tried to look that way.

So...

Vote Empking

Also... I would like to hear from hasd wich hasn't posted in a while I think...

[alexhans]

oh.... my bad... He has... but he has posted so little content that he seems almost like wall-e or Zwets... I had him a bit higher regarding the content of his posts...

anyway...
@dej, hasd: What do you think about this? Is my case good? weak? why?

[alexhans]

alex, are you telling me that hewitt's post wasn't an appeal to emotion?

Well then I apologize for being clueless zwets but that's the way it is right now.

How is this appeal to emotion? I don't follow...

An appeal to emotion is a particularly devious sort of fallacious argument, particularly in a game of unknowns such as Mafia. "If you lynch me, you'll lose!" is an easy example, but there are many others, played by both/all Factions in most games at some point. The nature of the game lends itself to appeals to fear or hope or trust.

He wasn't receiving any pressure at the time. Just some isolated questions from you.

It is an appeal to emotion, actually. Not saying you're unsure, but apologizing for it.

Unvote: Vote: hewitt

I disagree.

And now I want you to outline a case against me. Please.

Outline a case on Hew first, I'm not voting you but you ARE voting him.

Unvote: Vote: Dejka

for post 74, which I've long felt was Dej reaching for someone to attack with no real reason or need (or even grounds). I'm keeping my vote on Dej for today, I think.

This is the interaction between Emp and dej.

Okay whatever just lay off the insults this game. Empking is your vote of dejkha 100% serious like you think he's really scum?

Yes.

Do you think so without a doubt in your mind? Like, are you positive?

No.

Alright, just making sure.

I think it goes along the lines of what I've said... Stupid lawyer acting but it's not enough reason to vote...

Don't be silly. I do not agree with his accusations due to the fact that theyu're directed at me so he must not be scumhunting.

I don't understand what you're saying. Please rephrase.

Uh zwets it's obvious that wasn't Empking's point. Empking did that because he's claiming to be a townie and since alexhans voted for him he's saying alexhans is not scumhunting.

That's what he means? That if I'm accusing someone and he is a townie then I'm not scumhunting??? And how am I supposed to know he is a townie(if he is indeed)?

I said that wrong. It should be:

Don't be silly. "I do not agree with his accusations due to the fact that theyu're directed at me so he must not be scumhunting."

Still the same question as before... you say you're a townie so I'm not scumhunting? or what? Is that real logic?

[alexhans]

To: Wall-e
From: Alexhans
first you lurked and gave nothing but this without explaining:

The "case" against dejka is utter garbage.

then came 280 that wasn't really enough as I stated in my responses in 302.

The ad hominem was intended as humor, but if you don't/didn't see it that way I apologize for any offense.

Look here: I have no sense of sarcasm, jokes or someone being facetious. If you don't clearly label your comments as such I will assume the worst. It's a survival tactic I use considering my condition.

Wow he uses humour but condemns it. (This is not part of your case really, just something that you should note before pushing others.)

only if you let me live

This was viewed as Appeal to emotion too. But I don't really care much about it. I just want to note that you use AtE to vote Hew.
What do you think about

Gah, 279 still bothers me SO MUCH that I can't get past it. It looks like I'm going to have to stay on zwets.

Unvote: Vote: zwetschenwasser just in case.

Still bothers you?

Unvote; Vote: Wall-e

then this:

Fos: alexhans

telling the scum who to NK.

wich I explained in the next post but you recognized you were wrong so we can leave it be for now.
then the way in wich you pushed hew... and then dej... You can do 2 things... admit that you are lost like everyone else or stop telling us to give you a super solid case. You've been saying that the game lacked content so...

Best Wishes

[alexhans]

actually he unvoted you and now is voting dej...

[alexhans]

Wow, I'm analizing records and mini normals (to mod one someday) and I find this...
Fast game
Wall-e that makes me think that lynching you in 761 was not such a bad idea no, really. How did that happen? How did you manage to get lynched that fast as scum? And your partner committed the biggest mistake in defending you...

[alexhans]

Alexhans: That was your logic so I'm glad you don't think it makes sense.

What are you talking about?

Zwets and Wall-e keep posting but we still can't make any content... Hope dej is here soon so we can see what he thinks...

@hasd:Can you add something other than that you're happy with your vote? What do you think about Hew's push? About Emp's?

Also. I don't like Wall-e setting his vote on dej in stone without giving time for a reply... That is like saying I'm not moving so you have to do what I say...

[alexhans]

I take it you didn't read my quoted post last page. My case can be found conveniently in my longest post in this game. See for yourself, don't take my word for it.

Zwet's case on Wall-e, apparently:

From my perspective, it was appeal to logos, not pathos.

You saying so doesn't immediately make it so, Wall-e.

Ok... so?

I don't have to admit that I'm just as lost as everyone else. It's obvious from the fact that I'm town (empking logic lol)

This is strange. Instead of actually posting something useful you try to shrug off your scumminess with a joke about Empking. Why?

Ok... reasonable doubt. so?

Seriously, Empking, why do you even play this game?

How is this helpful? Ad hominem has no place here.

true. It's not helpful... is necesarilly it scummy though?

I conceed that I've done illogical-and-therefore-scummy things in this game.

I haven't actually gotten into the meat of it yet. Most of day 1 is my RVS, to use an innacurate analogy.

Then why don't you give us an accurate analogy?

well... I honestly... I see questions... unanswered, true, but just questions... I think I laid a much better case on wall-e. Still, I'm unsure if it's enough.

[alexhans]

Emp, dej and Hasd have not been very active lately... Dej has stated some reasons and promised to catch up but we have no word from the others...

There's been a lot of vote shifting lately...

MOD: Can we get a vote count?

[alexhans]

hey... Why didn't you mentioned this game open 130 you played with Emp? All meta helps, you know...

and if you're scum... you could use quicktopic

[alexhans]

This is sucking with all the lurking (voluntary or not, active or not).

Emp still hasn't responded me. Has made poor judgements. I'm confortable with his lynch, really.

Dej supposedly was going to catch up... And I'm worried too because this game is not that hard to read. It's basically 1-liners by most players.

[alexhans]

Knowing that your name can be confusing I nicknamed you "hasd", never "has".
Anyway... you feel you made poor judgements?

[alexhans]

Emp still hasn't responded me. Has made poor judgements. .

Proof, please.

Wall-E: Should be "was already".

you ask proof to me? I laid a much better case on you. Anyone can read your posts in isolation to find you haven't contributed at all to the game. Wanted to lynch Wall-e when he was absent and quickly wanted to lynch him when he had just arrived.

My case is sumarized in 375. This game has had very poor content. What do you expect me to prove day 1? You don't defend yourself but just dismiss my case. You DONT scumhunt. You basically sit back trying to let Wall-e or some other player lyncheed.

So, yeah, I'm pretty much convinced that you're scum.

[alexhans]

[quote="Empking]
Yeah, making claims that you can't back up means you're doing much less scumhunting than I was.

Alex: Less lying more scum hunting.[/quote]
Read my posts in ISO and your posts in ISO and we'll see who really tried to find scum. Plus, you practically never answered a question. Only ignored and dismiss them.

[alexhans]

dejkha and hascow.

Then why you're voting Hewitt?

[alexhans]

my case is laid on Empking in[url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#1614219]this post[/ul] and to that you have to add that he votes Wall-e without stating reasons

Vote: Wall-E

Thought I wasn't.

as it was obvious and later tried to prove I was not scumhunting because he says he is be town. Really bad logic. Is like saying hey! I'm town so I won't explain my actions because I'm innocent. Now, he doesn't de anything but say I have no proof and that he is scumhunting when he hasn't asked a single question for a long time.

[alexhans]

EDIT: this post

[alexhans]

You're voting Wall-e and asking me who is my scum buddy? If you think I'm scum and are voting him you should be assuming he has to be my partner... (And you think that asking someone that is scum hunting? )
Anyway... You asked me to lay your case... I did. Of COURSE ITS MY LOGIC!!! What do you want me to do? Use your logic and say that because you say you're town that means you are?

Also, note that you never said I was suspicious in any way but now that I'm pushing your case you start to attack me without reasons. (That would be some kind of OMGUS without the vote)

[alexhans]

What gives you that impression? Is it because I've asked questions to all players in the game and tried to produce content? (While you were asking me to state dej's favourite color )

[alexhans]

The proof is in your ISO. I don't need to quote all those 1-liners. When did I refuse to give you my case? click the link and you'll jump to my post, then look at your ISO and you'll see that it's all true.

look at 190 where you quote my whole post and only say:

When you vote that vote should be willing to be their for an eventual lynch.

Alex: Write a paragraph detailing Dejhka's favorite colour.

Also, notice in my post that I state that you kept accusing Dej of trying to lynch Wall-e for lurking and then you vote for him because he didn't look like being replaced.

Do I have a lot on you? Maybe not. But is by far the best case there is seeing the low content and the poor reasons for votes in this game. And your actions of trying to revert your accusations into me instead of trying to ask questions or scum hunt and calling me scum and a lier are making me feel more & more confident that I'm doing the right thing voting you.

[alexhans]

The proof is in your ISO. I don't need to quote all those 1-liners. When did I refuse to give you my case?

Where did I say that?

In your previous post:

The thing that gave me that impression is that you make a lot of statements but when asked to give proof you refused to.

When you vote that vote should be willing to be their for an eventual lynch.

Alex: Write a paragraph detailing Dejhka's favorite colour.

That's not asking you to state his favourite colour.

Whatever. What is it? It sure looked like you were trying to make me look like his alt account or his brother or something... It was your only response to that long post you quoted...

Do I have a lot on you? Maybe not. But is by far the best case there is seeing the low content and the poor reasons for votes in this game. And your actions of trying to revert your accusations into me instead of trying to ask questions or scum hunt and calling me scum and a lier are making me feel more & more confident that I'm doing the right thing voting you.

So you're voting me because I had the gaul to suspect you.

God No! I feel like I'm talking to a wall... read

this post

and all my following posts.

[alexhans]

Are you kidding me? read 465.

Dont make it a semantics thing.

*you said "when asked to give proof you refused to". I say "When did I refuse to give you my case?". My proof is my case... what do you want me to do? Hack your computer and see if you've got schemy scum notes? What do you consider proof? Have you given any proof about anybody?

* You asked me to detail dej's fav color. It's practically the same as saying that you asked me to state dej's fav color. I don't see a difference. You keep saying No. no. No. Where did i say that? No. Liar. NO. Do you think you're scum hunting? Have you laid a case on Wall-e?

[alexhans]

*sigh*
Well... seeing 468 I'm pretty set. No one can be that unhelpful... I was trying to make my votee understand why I'm voting for him but he doesn't want to, he also ignores my questions.

I AM voting for him dej.

[alexhans]

er... you were already voting for him hew... Did you forget?

[alexhans]

This is stupid... The only thing some people seem to be doing is telling others to prove they are scum...

alexhans: Did you ever respond to 378? If so I missed it.

387 outlines a case for you as you requested in 378.
Some players in this game are missing far too many things... I asked you to outline a case on Hew when you were voting him and you ignored me...

Hm. After a bit of research, it seems 74 is a nearly contentless post.

Good catch, has.

What did he caught? What are you talking about? What's your case on dej? His lawerly fight with Emp?

Empking. Shut. Up. Now.

It would be better if he actually answered the questions I made to him over my last posts... HINT: the sentences have a "?" at the end if they are questions...
@Zwets:

dejkha and hascow.

Then why you're voting Hewitt?

If you consider dej and hascow to be the scummiest so far why aren't you voting any of them?

[alexhans]

WHY? Is it so hard to follow a vote with a brief explanation or a link to a post where you laid your case?

[alexhans]

That's the only question I asked you? The only one that wen't unanswered? You wen't back to read that post and didnt find other things that might be worth talking about?

Are you scumhunting with this silly posts? Or just posting so you won't get prodded?

Look at your last post in ISO!!!! what have you done? NOTHING! You're sickening me.
----
@Zwets: You knew that you were voting him right?
@Hew: you also voted Emp twice without unvoting. Did you forget?

[alexhans]

Ok. For the sake of information I'm posting everyone's vote history...

hasdgfas

Empking, Wall-e

Wall-E

Hewitt, Zwets, hewitt, dejkha, unvote, Zwets.

dejkha

Empking, Wall-e, Zwets,

alexhans

Wall-e, unvote, Empking.

zwetschenwasser

hasdgfas, dejkha, dejkha, wall-e, unvote, hewitt, hewitt, unvote.

hewitt

dejkha, hasdgfas, Wall-e, Empking, Empking

Empking

Hewitt, dejkha, Wall-e, unvote, Wall-e,

Read Empking in ISO...
ISO 15:

He's saying that you haven't asked a single question that would show that you're scumhunting.

Alex: If Dejhka is telling the truth. Why did you lie?

This post sucks so much. I had called him out for active lurking and he tries to accuse me of lying???
ISO 18 & 19: He doesn't remember he was voting him? (Happens to often in this game apparently) he sounds defensive, always.
1-liners. One word questions about nothing. Avoiding answers completely. Ignoring all logic from the other side. Wall-e may have some scummy attitudes but at least he tries , he recognizes that he can be wrong. Not Emp. Trying to trap dej with the lurker lynch issue and voting Wall-e for lurking. Totally inconsistent. The color question is just spamming the thread without content. He posted, yes. But he didn't post useful things. Accuses me and Dej of buddying for not supporting his own views. He unvoted Wall-e but quickly jumped at him again saying he did AtE. The fact that wall-e was not lynched while lurking bothers him?
ISO 41:

Alexhans: That was your logic so I'm glad you don't think it makes sense.

Look at him trying to make it appear as if I had said that my case didn't make sense. Totally wrong.

Vote: Wall-E

Thought I wasn't.

Votes Wall-e but doesn't state a reason. No case.
I made a case on him but he ignores it and calls for proof. Even though he didn't give reasons with his Wall-e vote that curiously comes when he is the only one with 2 votes. Trying to make a tie happen? Trying to weasel your off by leaving an alternative?

From there on he hasn't played anymore... Just posts 1 line phrases where he says nothing and answers nothing, like a stubborn mule. He doesn't look for other people to scum hunt. Only attempts a shell like defense against my case and never makes the slightest move to indicate what his case on Wall-e is...

[alexhans]

This is something only scum would say in order to get town off their case.

What case?

[alexhans]

Calling out someone for active lurking is only for scum? lol

So, basically, you're saying only scum would say the phrase I wrote... so, you should conclude I'm scum. right? Well, you think that is good proof? The kind of proof you asked for?

And, despite what you say, you haven't answered a lot of my questions. Look me in ISO and follow the "?" then see if you did.

Mod: What happens if there is a tie in deadline? No lynch, flip, the first one goes down or what?

[alexhans]

You've already admitted that you don't want answers for them.

WHEN!!??
Quote or link me where I said so. Also, if it was true and I didn't want answers from you. Would you just shut up and stop playing? Aren't you looking for scum?

[alexhans]

I don't believe 48, 50, 53, or 58 are scumhunting at all.

You don't knoew what scum hunting is.

And did you just claim cop?

Yes.

And you do know what that is? You can't even write without making mistakes every post. This is not the messenger.

If your claim is genuine then you're the worst cop I've ever seen. I'm wondering again what's your age and why you were so secretive about it... are you very young?

unvote

[alexhans]

Ad Hom.

Unvote

Vote; Alex

*sigh* Ad hom would be valid if I was trying to lynch (and voted you) you by personally attacking you.. The fact that you've been antitown and scummy the whole game doesn't make all cases against you wrong. Asumming your claim is true. You still don't scum hunt but say one phrase without reasoning. I don't like at all how you've been playing.

Anyway, what game are you talking about?

[alexhans]

I feel like banging my head to a wall...

I'll make it clearer, If I attacked you personally and pretend that was a case then it would be Ad Hom. Not this case. And using latin phrases that you know doesn't make them true. There's to much baseless AtE and Ad Hom accussations in this game.

The fact that its wrong though, does.

This quote resumes everything. You don't give reasoning for what you say. You seem to believe you hold the Holy Truth and everybody else has to agree with whatever you say and can not doubt your play.

You keep saying things matter of factly and not stating reasons for what you think...

You just said I lied but never specified why.

Scum un-sportsman??? What's that? are you accusing me of scum or what? if I were scum there's no sport or unsport, you just try to win. But as I'm not scum and not lying I don't see a point in all your babbles. You just got annoyed because I laid a good case on you. And kept saying no, no, no, no, you're a liar, no, I scumhunt, liar, liar, liar... Look at your Iso man... If you're town you should know by now you have been anti-town all along. And I'm not the only one saying this.

[alexhans]

No It wouldn't what? What are you trying to say? Stop with the short meaningless answers!

You keep going again and again at the same... But you only ask me to give proof on you. You don't give proof yourself or ask others to give proof on their cases. Wich suggest too much defensiveness.

@kieraen: What game are you talking about?

[alexhans]

I feel like banging my head to a wall...

I'll make it clearer, If I attacked you personally and pretend that was a case then it would be Ad Hom.

No It wouldn't what? What are you trying to say? Stop with the short meaningless answers!

Well its respond to your statement, maybe that's a clue...

Ok. Analize what you wrote. You're saying that if I personally attack you and pretend a case on you it's not ad hom. That's what you're saying with your answer. Although I don't think that's what you wanted to write. Pay attention. You just dismiss whatever I say in less than 2 minutes without logically refuting it (in a 1 liner). What you wrote doesn't make sense because it would dismiss any vote you made argumenting ad hom.


I don't think no one else thinks you either gave proof or really scum hunted. You just went for Wall-e for lurking and for me for accusing you. Your signature should be stubborn as hell.

[alexhans]

That's all? I wrote what I wrote in 3:40 you posted 3:41... (the minimum time to fast read it and press the quote button and write "And Alexhans lies again")...

Seeing how you like latin-named fallacies I'll give you what you're doing:
Ad Nauseam.

But the worst thing is that its unexplained Ad nauseam...

[alexhans]

NO

See ya. I'm hoping that other players may give their input about what has been going on. I guess I'll have to make a re-read of the whole game and see what I can conclude.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: I live in the country where the tango was invented: Bs.As. Argentina.

[alexhans]

I unvoted due to the cop claim. If there are no counter claims I think it's safe to assume he is telling the truth.

[alexhans]

He WAS at L-1 mind you. But I too have the feeling that it was wasted on him. He could've defended himself earlier and shown signs of scumhunting to avoid more votes and the subsequent claim.

So dej... what was your case on Zwets again?

[alexhans]

@dej:

That's why we have a doc and cop. Hopefully they'll make good use of their night actions before being killed.

This is one odd thing to see. It can be a slip of what your thoughts are: Killing PR's.
Then he answers this...

Because I'm scum and I know who the cop and doc are!!!!! Sorry guys, but you can't pin that one on me. Neither scum, nor town, have any idea who doc or cop is until they claim or are killed. So don't go trying to say I know who they are. I also say they would be killed because we have a 2/5 chance of one of them being killed. Hewitt, this isn't a perfect game and most aren't, so it's silly to assume the perfect scenario will play out.

I'll keep in mind how you tried to use that against me without reasoning though

, Hasd. There's no way I could know who cop or doc are unless I am one. Which means, scum doesn't even know who cop or doc is.

So trying to use that against me

is quite the a stretch.

While his general idea that PR's are the only ones that know who they are is correct, the way in wich he expressed it gives me bad vibes. And saying he is scum, even as a joke, not cool. This is the first point made at him and he already sees the ones who question him as scummy. That's defensive.


He keeps saying Zwets is scummy but also tackles on Emp.
He asks if he should consider wall-e lurking. Later on in the game he says he is clearly lurking and starts the waggon. Zwet attacks him for that and dej sees that it is scummy because Zwets is playing differently?
He calls on hew for not posting much and saying he is confused.
He supports my case but never votes him because he thinks it's the same bad Emp he has seen before?

He has been focusing on Zwets since zwets voted him in his first not RVS vote.

They're really, really not. Policy lynches are more like you and Emp who are incapable of change how you play. Lurkers try to stay low while they don't have to and is an indication of scum.

Why didn't you vote for Emp then? Why Zwets over Emp?

I never said I wanted a lurker lynch. Pay attention.

WOW! He was the one that started the nearly succesful bandwaggon on a lurker. Odd. He also called on hasd on the 29 minutes thing. He says he had no intention on lynching him in ISO 74 but that we have defeated his points so he has to.

Alex, honestly, I wasn't intending on lynching him. But now since everyone made me admit to it being just pressure, it defeats the point and now I have to lynch him if he doesn't get replaced.

If he's lurking and purposely not playing, then he's scummy, so my vote is staying where it is until he's replaced.

Since I don't see "moron", I'm gonna have to assume its Emp who's the "active lurker".

Again, you think lurking is bad and needs votes but then Emp does it and you don't vote him. You state several times that Emp is a bad player and stuff but you prefer to leave him in the game... because Emp in game is better for scum? You've witnessed this from the other side (It's in your wiki) you know that Emp wasn't really good for town there so you rather keep him.

I'm perfect, so I can't imagine I'm any of those.

SCUMSCUMSCUM!!!!

Unvote; Vote: Dejkha

This post alone may make Zwet a good lynch candidate for Day 1. That combined with everything else may make him an awesome lynch candidate for Day 1.

I still can't understand why would you choose Zwets over Emp if you were town.

Take a look at my sig. Since he realized he can be lynched that fast, maybe he's actually trying to prevent it by smartening up.

How do you get the feeling that Zwets is smartening up man? You said he was good for a lynch where he just called you scum and didn't add anything. You said he refuted his own logic in a point against you. Is that smart to you?

Zwets has made clear he wants dej lynched, therefore I can see dej as scum to be worried and trying to dismiss his points as stupid and lynching him.

There were somo other minor points but not necessarilly scummy. Read his ISO to get a better understanding of what I said.

If it ends with "Vote: Emp", it sounds good to me. Seriously though, your case sounds like the one in every game he's in (which is always a good reason to lynch him).

Yet, he never voted Emp.

dejkha and hascow.

Obvious attempt to build on the meta of delayed responses

+1 scumpoint

He keeps giving scum points for everything that Zwets does.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall... read

Cool, then vote him and shut up because you're wasting time and thread space arguing something his feeble mind (giving the BoDT that there's not a black abyss where his brain should be) cannot comprehend.

again, tells me to vote Emp and shut up. He is confortable witho others voting him or Zwets but he prefers Zwets.

I guess I'll just point to Empking's iron-clad meta-shield and walk away.

That's what he wants us to do. That's what he always wants us to do and I never will.

Ok people, can we get some votes going? Alex, I thought you said you were already voting Emp (or did you unvote?).

When Emp claims cop he asks me why I unvoted...

I don't remember at the moment. I stopped caring much for this game when you and Emp went on with your endless babble and it didn't look like it was going to stop [no one (that means you, hewitt) try to comment on how its the same with me, because it's not]. I'll go back and check later, but if I remember correctly, I've restated it a couple times.

Care to explain the "[]" part? You stopped caring? That's showing that you won't try to scumhunt?
Zwet lays his "trap" and dej inmediatly finds him scummy and attacks him for it:

If someone else said it, I may've believed that, but since you said it, I highly doubt it. Not to mention it was a horrible trap because if he was fake claiming, his mind would have made him remember who he killed on night one (which there hasn't been yet).

Hehehe, you fool. Since you keep making crap cases, no one will listen to you until it's not crap.

But I like how you're trying to make it seem like I think I'm invulnerable to a lynch from everyone even though what I say revolves around you and you alone.

+scumpoints for you, sir.

I find it hilarious how the harder to try, the more likely you hard to screw up XD

He keeps giving Zwets scumpoints for every post... He's set.

tl,dr:

I think you're just trying to get Zwets lynched because he expressed desire to vote you. You acted defensively when others questioned you (hew, hasd) and called out on a lot of people for lurking. You said you don't want lurkers lynched but tried to do Wall-e in. You want to keep Emp alive (before knowing he was cop) because you know that it is bad for town. Zwets is a threat to you but you try to dismiss it. You "lost interest" in the game due to my exchange with Emp but didn't try to stop it... Emp or zwets looked the lynching choices and you were down with that...

[alexhans]

Alex, you know what that entire post was? A bunch responses to post that I've already defending and reasons why I should vote Emp over Zwet. So hows about this: you vote who you want and I'll vote who I want.

If I'm live to tomorrow and Zwet's dead, you can bet you're getting my vote for trying to make my posts seem scummy

when I've already responded to just about everything you said. I don't think it's a coincidence that you're doing that at the same time my wagon may gain speed.

Again. Someone asks you questions and you just attack them.

Is it forbidden to question you? you just dismiss Zwets and Emp so I ask you stuff and you accuse me? Go on then. That's so town-like </sarcasm>

[alexhans]

clarify me something... You think Emp is dumb or scum?

[alexhans]

nothing dude... I just want to get reactions from my investigations and yours was not the most innocent I have gotten so far.

I still suspect that you might be voting Zwet's just as rettaliatory action and be keeping Emp for the ride because he is usually anti-town. Check your own wiki.

And again. You dismiss everyone that doesn't agree with you and attack them (ad hom could go here) personally. That's not pro-town.

[alexhans]

clarify me something... You think Emp is dumb or scum?

Read the thread for once.

Answer me please. I may have misunderstood you. I want an answer here and now.

[alexhans]

nothing dude... I just want to get reactions from my investigations and yours was not the most innocent I have gotten so far.

I still suspect that you might be voting Zwet's just as rettaliatory action and be keeping Emp for the ride because he is usually anti-town. Check your own wiki.

And again. You dismiss everyone that doesn't agree with you and attack them (ad hom could go here) personally. That's not pro-town.

Are you voting him?

Not right now. I want Hew and hasd to appear. But I gotta tell you that I'm not at all satisfied by his reactions to my post.

[alexhans]

It's rather unsportsmanlike to quit out of frustration, hewitt. I hope that's not what you're doing if you're town.

I agree man... If you're scum you suck for cheap tactics. If you're town, you suck for leaving us at lylo.

It's not quitting out of frustration, I should've done it before the lynch. I dislike small games and this game in particular. On the contrary, I'm not frustrated at all because I would've had a 50% of catching scum and if Empking truly is the cop then really I've got a 67% chance and it can't get much better then that.

If I had to take an educated guess I would say the scum in this game are Wall-E and hasdgfas.

Well then. I'm thinking along the same lines as you... The odds are good that we catch scum. Give your reasons and state your vote when you think is appropriate. But if you leave you'll screw the game up for either team.

Hi guys.

vote: empking

HoS: alex

let's start with lynching the known liar empking

WAIT!!! WHAT?????
you vote out claimed cop? Our only innocent person??? And you Hand of suspicion me??? WHY??? How is Emp lying?

[alexhans]

Whatever... I'm starting believe Hew is right and hasd and Wall-e are the scumteam.

Vote Wall-e

[alexhans]

yeah... but why would he not counter claim before? It's weird. And he is totally ignoring Wall-e when he was voting for him earlier. That looks like bussing.

[alexhans]

wow... guess I was wrong...

This was one of the shortest days I've seen.

[alexhans]

Wall-e, Who is scum?

[alexhans]

Well... That was easy...

I'll post some thoughts of this game after I get back from my exam...

meanwhile...
unnecessary Quicktopic

[alexhans]

Well... I'm back... Some quick thoughts:

This was a very bad game from the town's side.
The town suffered from 2 playstyles that are never good:
Emp and Zwets.
Zwets: I don't know if your idea of having fun is spoiling a game or trying to find scum.

Emp: Dude. You gotta change your playstyle. All I did was raise the same suspicions I would've raised if I was town. Your unhelpfullness is extreme and you never gave a decent reason to be attacking me. YOU WERE SCUMMY.

Dej: Your policy hate screwed you this time. Zwets was town. Emp too. Instead of claiming you should've accused hasd for making you claim.

What did I tell you about Wall-e? That he was a village idiot. A player that usually seems scummy and won't do very good to defend himself. I knew it was good to have him around. Anyway, I don't like lynching lurkers as town either.

hascow was a bit on the lurker side but no one took any notice of this or asked him to post more but me.

I never understood the Zwets lynch. It sucked. It was too fast.

Hewitt... When I voted Wall-e at lylo you should've realized something was off and unvoted. You can't just throw around your vote at lylo. You also lacked desition to pursue other players in the game. Acting all confused isn't useful for you. You can be confused but still toss questions to everything that move trying to find something useful.

Note that I never agreed to Hascow's plan. In fact, I disliked it. If there's really a cop he should counter claim a fake claim because he will surely find scum. This is an open setup. You catch 1 of the 2 scum and there's a chance you get the RB so you can use your ability. Didn't you ever wonder why he didn't do it on day 1? Hascow's softclaim was a strong scum tell. I would've totally bussed him knowing that I could push a Wall-e lynch in a Hew,Wall-e,me lylo.

Why did I vote Wall-e if I didn't believe Hascow's claim? That didn't make sense but I rushed because I knew Hascow was on site and we needed that lynch before someone realized that his claim made no sense.

No one bothered to ask Emp to claim who he had investigated. Hew didn't ask Hascow either.

The only suspicios characters IMO were Dej, Emp and Has.

I played a good pro-town game until I voted for dej. But at that point I was satisfied by outing the cop (made him useless because I could block him) and wanted to narrow down the doc (hew or dej).

Hascow was extremely opportunistic to put both Emp and Dej at L-1 and make them claim. Dude! in this game claiming sucks for town. THE DOC CAN NEVER CLAIM!!!

Emp: who did you investigate?
Dej: who did you protect? Emp?

The AtE and Ad Hom accussations were thrown out to easy and lost all validity.

No one even commented on the voting pattern. That is usually useful to find scum. Note that the 3 with less votes are hascow, Dej and me.

This phrase will go to my wiki quotes. Straight to the hall of fame:

If your proof is your case then you have no proof then you have no case.

It was so funny.

Wall-e: Admitting you were scummy in a game just doesn't work. You gotta stop saying that and try to be clearer. Especially if you've been lurking so much. your come-back post was dreadful but later you tried to play better.

Last try: How old are you Emp? I'm 21... are you older? Younger?

[alexhans]

lol.... It's true you simul posted over me and 2 minutes later I posted to change the page. Then like 10 minutes later Hascow finally hammered


Super Hascow's Hammer ====[]

[alexhans]

Good game Wall-e...

Hascow: I think it was a tad risky but who cares... WE WON!!!

Flawless Victory!

[alexhans]

This game was really swift...

This game took 12 days to end.

Day 2: 10 hs aprox.
Start: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:33 pm
End: Apr 30, 2009 1:21 am
11 Posts. (21 from mod post to mod post)

[alexhans]

Thanks for modding fuzzy. but...

It's good mod practice to post the night actions. Even if they have been already admitted by players.

I wanna know who Emp tried to check last night!!!

If I was town this game would've sucked... But as I was scum I had an easy ride knowing there was no way I would be lynched. It's the first time I've been fairly sure I was gonna survive...

This game had too many players (for such a small game) that are usually marked for policy lynch... and they were all town... and dej is a policy lynch fan... And he was town... So that left only Hew, Hascow and me out of the madness vortex.