Mini 773- Welcome to Lynchville! Perfection! (Over)

[ChiefSkye4]

/confirmz

[ChiefSkye4]

Vote ppp973

You know your vote doesn't count right?

[ChiefSkye4]

Vote ppp973

You know your vote doesn't count right?

ppp already had two votes for his behavior. Why did you feel the need to add a third on, for the exact same reasoning? Reeks of opportunism.

Vote: ChiefSkye4

To be completely honest, I was scanning the page, and I only saw 1 vote on him :/ Sounds like a convenient excuse, but it's true. Since it was the RVS, I didn't thoroughly read :/ ppp's vote stood out because it was longer than the others', and I saw it, and in going to reply, I spotted only one other vote, Archaist's.

I find Chiefskye's action questionable, third vote on a bandwagon is always dodgy, third vote on a bandwagon in the random stage where the last two posts have also been votes on the same person, that's worse. However, in the random stage, I don't think anything too serious can be drawn from it...but IGMEOY Chiefskye.

I put no stock into the "X on the wagon is scumz" flack, but, aside from that, my explanation is above. IGMEOY means "I've got my eyes on you" right? Haha sorry.

While the first two votes were relatively serious and were to draw pressure and information, this vote is just... there. It doesn't particularly seem to be placed for any particular reason. (Yes, I know, RVS, but it's placed on a player that had already recieved pressure for his actions.) Thusly, in my opinion, it warranted some pressure via my vote.

Again, explanation in the first paragraph, but wanted to add: I may be missing some things, but I do have a sense of humor. I understood that ppp's vote was a joke, and I returned with a joke. It was RVS, so I thought I could be lighthearted, but little did I know, I was 3rd to vote him, thinking I was only second.

Unvote

seeing as RVS is over, or nearly there, rather.

[ChiefSkye4]

I put no stock into the "X on the wagon is scumz" flack, but, aside from that, my explanation is above. IGMEOY means "I've got my eyes on you" right? Haha sorry.

Normally I don't put anything in the "X on the wagon is scumz" thing either, but when the votes go on in consecutive posts, it generally is more significant, because then it would make sense as an opportunistic vote, and hey, even better, it's the random vote stage so you can get away with it! However, having read your response, and also the fact that you really can't take anything too serious from the random vote stage (it's quite random unfortunately), I don't think it was opportunistic in your case. Still, as I say, IGMEOY!

IGMEOY means I've got my eye on you yes lol. So you'd better watch out!

Fair enough. And, thanks for the IGEMOY explanation lol.

[ChiefSkye4]

Just did a re-read, everyone (of consequence) in isolation, and I find this:

-Kublai Khan's

Since PieIsPopcorn is starting the questioning in the opening 2 pages where people are still going to pop in with their random vote, all he accomplishes is sewing confusion and chaos into the opening procedures.
Better to let everyone show up, say their hellos, make their jokes, etc.., and then leap in with pointed questions. I just don't see the benefit in breaking with convention.

is a little more than, well, not good. This rings as very scummy to me, and even if I agreed with the principle of it (which I don't), the explanation is ridiculous.

-Archaist gives me town vibes, probably because of his vote on...

-Alexhans'

This game has gotten aggressive pretty soon... Let's all remember we are practically in RVS with not much content. Let's soften the accusations a little because town players wouldn't know for certain that someone is scum for 1 post. Investigate, but be smart. Don't get emotional so soon.

worries me and pings my scumdar like crazy. It's very much like KK's, but with, admittedly, more townie intentions in it. Archaist outlined the reasons why it was scummy already, but to reiterate, it seems like Alexhans is uncomfortable with moving out of the RVS, and onto real scumhunting. Hm.

-PieIsPopcorn gives me townie vibes, his scumhunting seems genuine.

FoS Kublai Khan and Alexhans

[ChiefSkye4]

add on: We a risking to kill a pro-town, and I think Alex did make a valid point that townies won't want to be lynched.

Uh, if I'm understanding your logic correctly, with that reasoning, we should never lynch until scum jumps out of the bushes screaming "RAWR VOTE MEH." There will always be a risk of lynching town, no matter where or what game you play, but if we lynch to the best of our abilities and logic, we might (I'll even venture a "probably") nail the scum. That's what mafia is.

[ChiefSkye4]

-Kublai Khan's

Since PieIsPopcorn is starting the questioning in the opening 2 pages where people are still going to pop in with their random vote, all he accomplishes is sewing confusion and chaos into the opening procedures.
Better to let everyone show up, say their hellos, make their jokes, etc.., and then leap in with pointed questions. I just don't see the benefit in breaking with convention.

is a little more than, well, not good. This rings as very scummy to me, and even if I agreed with the principle of it (which I don't), the explanation is ridiculous.

What, exactly, is scummy about my opinion? If you disagree with me, that's fine, but since I've posted a more detailed explanation, you're going to have to use more than vague dislike to make a case against me (even if it's only an FOS).

I went back and re-re-read your additional explanations, and I have a bit more understanding now. Your explanations make sense. The initial post still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I understand where you were coming from now though.

It pings your scumdar like crazy? Wow. I never said I didn't want to leave RVS... I just wanted to make the game tidier so I could understand it better and scum hunt accordingly.

Mm, I can respect that, but the original post didn't really seem to send that message. The normal progression of the game must happen at some point, and it seems as if you were prolonging the RVS.

And here'something I'm puzzled about. You both found my statement to be scummy but completely ignored this one?:

Also... I don't like very much that people start cataloging others as town or townie because that doesn't help at all(IMHO) and is usually a trick by scum to befriend players or remove suspicion from them in a eventual death situation. And can make other people take that towniness for granted too.

This could be viewed as scummy with more intensity because I'm telling you not to speak about your thoughts in a way. Not to tell who you think is town. Now I'm not so sure about it. But you didn't speak against it or anything.

Is that in any way, help reveal anyone's alignment?

oh... Happy birthday Chief!

Thank you

[ChiefSkye4]

To be completely honest, I was scanning the page, and I only saw 1 vote on him :/ Sounds like a convenient excuse, but it's true. Since it was the RVS, I didn't thoroughly read :/ ppp's vote stood out because it was longer than the others', and I saw it, and in going to reply, I spotted only one other vote, Archaist's.

Ok... So you didn't see mine? That I don't understand. I could understand you seen both and voting to see who would call on the bandwaggon but saying you didn't see mine when there was a 6:41 - 7:17 = 36 minutes period between my vote and yours. There's a possible satisfying answer to this but I want you to give it to me.

I understand that our votes were close in time, and what I'm about to explain cannot be proved definitively, but take a look at this--> http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/ ... 44/sdf.jpg

Notice my multiple tabs open. I'm in multiple games at the moment (as I was at that time), and my habits are as follows: Go to www.mafiascum.net/forum, open "Little Italy", "Coney Island", and "Mish Mash" tabs. Mark all forums as read, get out of tab. Open my games, read them up to where they've stopped. Open a reply tab, move on to next game. Once that's done (with my approx 5 games), I move back to the first one, and begin to reply. This can take up to an hour or two, and I don't refresh the page (although, I guess I should now :/) between reads and replies. That day was no different. Sorry there's no hard proof for that.

On an unrelated note... I just notices you're a girl... And you have an avatar of Gossip Girl... Cool. Can I call you C?

Yes, I am a girl :p And yes, Gossip Girl is the shiz. I'm glad someone recognized it. I'm thinking about modding a GG game at some point, but I think only, like, 2 people would have ever watched the show haha. ANYWAY, sure, you can call me whatever you want (I do get the joke lol) :p

Just did a re-read, everyone (of consequence) in isolation

Is there anyone that seems to be lurking or active lurking?

Well, cateraction was until recently, and Cream come to mind.

Is that in any way, help reveal anyone's alignment?

I don't understand what you mean... but I'll try to explain why I thought it could be viewed as scummy:
I said not to say who is town.
That may mean I'm telling you not to scumhunt, as brian said, saying who we think is innocent and who is guilty may give us more info in the way of reactions. What I didn't like about it was that if we said that a scum was town in our view, others may agree and the said scum will have a free pass until the end of the game when people have their suspicions hard coded in their minds. I prefer that we say who we think is town and scum but state that we can change that whenever we feel like and that NO ONE is cleared. I've seen in 753 (Sanity Ensues Mafia) a pro-town Charrat and Green crayons (although a bit lurkish) to ride completely untouched and unquestioned through the whole game. That's why I'm wary of Archaist and all the players of that kind.

Ok, I understand, ja, but what my question was, well, it was basically, "What does me not pointing out a potential scummy remark of yours, that you bring up yourself oddly enough, tell anyone? If anything?"

[ChiefSkye4]

maybe it's just me knowing I'm town (and not undestanding why I'm being attacked) that gets me paranoid.

Sounds a little forced to me :/

Also, just noticed you're from BA, Argentina- best city I've ever traveled to. Props :p

[ChiefSkye4]

Anyway, at least you're talking... Is there anything else that called your attention?

I did as you suggested- read cat in isolation. What you say is true- cateraction seems to only pops in when convenient (active lurking) and agrees with what the general consensus agrees with. Very suspicious, and if not scummy, very anti-town.

[ChiefSkye4]

Red Coyote reminds me of Rorchach. I like him though, so it's awesome.

Watchmen allusions for the win.

Anyone want to discuss the idea of a ppp policy lynch (a p-p-p-policy lynch if you will, lol)?

Personally, can't stand policy lynches. It's a perfect hiding place for scum. But, ppp (for unpolicy reasons) is not an entirely bad lynch.

I posted before saying that I am used to writing no lynch on my other sites

That is REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY not a good reason. Sounds like a scummy shrug-off to me. But a bad one lol.

[ChiefSkye4]

Personally, can't stand policy lynches. It's a perfect hiding place for scum. But, ppp (for unpolicy reasons) is not an entirely bad lynch.

Why? Would you lynch him now if you could hammer?

As for why (the most recent reason, anyway):

I posted before saying that I am used to writing no lynch on my other sites .

That is REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY not a good reason. Sounds like a scummy shrug-off to me. But a bad one lol.

And as for your second question, no, I wouldn't want to lynch anyone at this very second. I don't throw votes around, certainly not hammers.

[ChiefSkye4]

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no? Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

Mm, he's scummy to an extent. I pursued a KK case previously, and was satisfied enough with his explanations to drop it for the time being. We have to pursue any and all scummy cases, and ppp is/was the issue at hand.

[ChiefSkye4]

@167: Needlessly complicated systems for determining scumminess are neither pro or anti town. They are merely systems one may choose to use to determine whether one is more or less likely to be scum. I call it "Scuminomics."

Just to clarify, who's system are you calling needlessly complicated?

[ChiefSkye4]

Skye: Someone called my system needlessly complicated, so through logical progression, I'm talking about mine. I realize in isolation that would lack clarity though.

Aaaaah, ok. Gotcha. Sorry.


Also, welcome Archon!

[ChiefSkye4]

As I said before, policy lynches=scum hiding place. But, I think KK was joking, and unless he takes further "policy" action against Archon, it's a useless post, which is admittedly anti-town, but not scummy.

[ChiefSkye4]

Woah. Def doing a reread, ASAP. I'll post my thoughts when I'm done.

Also, noted, ppp still hasn't gotten off his no lynch...

[ChiefSkye4]

Alrighty guys. I apologize deeply for my absence, and am back to announce an official V/LA due to my mother's new job which will heavily limit my internet access. But I will try to get on at school as often as I can.

As I said previously, I'm going to reread, and I'll see how far I get, and post my thoughts as they come. Sorry if anything is confusing or disjointed. If you have a question, just ask it. Also, if you find me repeating what others have said, I apologize- I haven't been keeping up as well as I should, hence this reread.

Also, it's PAGE 2. Don't expect airtight cases.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. And excuses aren't very town. At least bad excuses aren't anyway. Cop-out.

I have experience playing with ppp973. Voting for him is the best Day 1 action for town

Policy lynch= anti-town, unless an absolute, absolute, freak case last resort.

Alexhans 39, in general, has a put on feel to it, but nothing blatant.

There are two sides to KK's 39:

Because I'm not really sold on the utility of policy lynches. Plus I'm sure he's bound to dig himself into a hole sooner than later.

I agree completely. Although, somewhat of a null-tell, because it is a playstyle type-thing, but more town than scum, def.

BTW - What's with the over-aggressive questioning during the random vote phase?

It has to transisition sometime and by stunting growth, it's ultimately holding the game back=antitown.

Yeah, but random stage is going to happen. Mind as well let people get it out of their system. Since PieIsPopcorn is starting the questioning in the opening 2 pages where people are still going to pop in with their random vote, all he accomplishes is sewing confusion and chaos into the opening procedures.

Better to let everyone show up, say their hellos, make their jokes, etc.., and then leap in with pointed questions. I just don't see the benefit in breaking with convention.

Pretty much the same thing as above, just more articulated, and more animated.

Lester's 44-45 make sense.

While I find it silly to vote for ppp based on his joke to vote for "the mafia", I'd like it a lot more if he'd at least try to contribute. While random votes on people doesn't provide much useful information, it's still something.

Also makes sense.

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

I don't think it was worth a vote switch. Mostly due to the fact that when I read this, I had to rack my brain for what Brian was talking about, even though I read it 3 minutes ago. It wasn't a very big deal, in the least. If anything, KK is most guilty of the shady "random vote" views as of now.

third vote on a bandwagon is always dodgy

As I remember saying before, I put no stock in "X on bandwagon is teh scumz". It's no more than a cop-out for someone with no case.

Additionally, I'm not going to touch the ppp thing. I have no problem with his vote, I actually thought it was kind of clever (although I'm sure it's been done countless times).

No real meat here, but it seems like an unecessary defense. Noted.

Later on in Red's 54, he makes plenty of sense with his views on KK's RVS opinions. I feel his vote is more justified than Brian's.

Cream's 56 is defending his X is scum reasoning, which puts him in a more town light.

And as far as "pushing a (ppp973) wagon without being on it" goes. Did you notice I put a smiley? It was a rib at ppp973, and I think he got it. (Or he may not of, I don't know, I still can't read him very well).

This is what "pushing a wagon without being on it" looks like:

I'll have a detailed post on the criticisms against me tomorrow after school, however I would like to say that I support the Kublai wagon

.

Hell, he even unvoted within the post without voting for me.

Agree, completely.

This game has gotten aggressive pretty soon... Let's all remember we are practically in RVS with not much content. Let's soften the accusations a little because town players wouldn't know for certain that someone is scum for 1 post. Investigate, but be smart. Don't get emotional so soon.

Basically a rewording of KK's previous RVS post, and you know how I feel about that. Rather anti-town, ESPECIALLY because it's even later in the game than KK's post.

You said that you were scared, only mafia are scared to be lynched when the lynched targeted.

Saw this in a quote, must have missed it earlier. But, this is scummy. If you're town, especially a power role, you'd fear for yourself AND the town if you were near lynch.

What makes you think that only mafia should be afraid to be lynched? If anything townies should be more nervous about a lynch, as they don't know if the person will turn up mafia or town

Dru dat, homes.

Alright, class is about to end, I have to run for now, but I'll continue with my wall-o-text review tomorrow. Or, maybe later today, if I'm lucky.

[ChiefSkye4]

I'm just gonna post this now, so I don't forget:
I am reporting a V/LA for Friday-Sunday. I'm going to be traveling out of the country and will have no web access. I will participate as much as I can today, and when I return on Monday, I will catch up. Thanks.

Also, I noted Red's request that I read the more current posts, and I guess that's in order. I just was getting so confused, and had no idea what the huckleberryfinn was going on earlier, so I thought a reread would be helpful for my scum-hunting, and me posting my thoughts would be helpful for town, but I understand the urgency of the matter with the deadline and my future absence and all. So, seeing as we're on page 12, I think it'll be good for me to start reading from....page 8? It's a guesstimate, so if anyone has any other suggestion, please let me hear it. Anyway....TALLY-HO! Off to reading

[ChiefSkye4]

Alright, starting on page 7...

Cat's 162 is town, gives good vibes.

Light's 163 is disturbing because of the policy-lynch support, but that's somewhat of a policy thing (a scummy policy, but not enough to base a case off of).

Page 8:

More disturbing policy lynch talk, and virtually useless posts until Archaist's 186, which I think is a bit of an overreaction, but at least we're getting serious again.

First few Archon posts are rather useless and empty...

Red's 195 presents a rather solid case on Light.

KK's and Archaist's back-and-forth over WORD CHOICE is pretty much a waste of space, but soon evolves into something slightly useful.

Alexhan's 206 is the first solid, clearly laid out Archaist case/vote I've seen yet.

Archaist gives a fairly good defense 207. Not completely name-clearing, but I never suspected him that much in the first-place.

Brian and I seem to agree on a few points in his 211.

Lester's vote in 219 seems like utter bandwagoning. *frownyface*

Alexhans is seeming town, because it would have been really easy for scum to keep their vote on, and pretend to never notice the L-1. But he seems to show genuine concern for the situation. Town points for you.


Alright, I gotta run and see my school's production of Godspell (wootwoot). I'll (hopefully!) check in later and keep going.