Open 124 (2:10 Bugs Bunny -- GAME OVER) before 761

[AndyTony]

/confirm!

[AndyTony]

Vote: dejkha

I'm digging the Heroes avatar!

C:\>votecount

Running VoteCount

TM

millar13 - 5 - Zachrulez, madeofphail, Giuseppe, roflcopter, Cephrir

Grimmy - 2 - Grimmy, Empking

Empking - 1 - dejkha
dejkha - 1 - AndyTony

zwetschenwasser - 0
Pablo Molinero - 0
Giuseppe - 0
Zachrulez - 0
Cephrir - 0
roflcopter - 0
AndyTony - 0
madeofphail - 0

Not Voting: zwetschenwasser, millar13, Pablo Molinero

With 12 players, it takes 7 to Lynch.

[AndyTony]

Vote: dejkha

I'm digging the Heroes avatar!

Wow, that came out of nowhere. Care to explain?

I just logged on and only went through the first page before going right to a reply for a random vote - - the game is going crazy fast!!

Unvote

I'm gonna give a quick read of what I missed!!!

[AndyTony]

From what I'm reading, I'm a dash confused - can someone fill me in?

What's the deal with Emp? It seems like we're all persecuting him for a bad history in games, but I haven't seen him do anything directly scummy just yet - - I think it would be irresponsible for us to lynch him no matter what based on popularity, it only hurts the town to have less townies (no matter how poor they articulate themselves or contribute)

And Millar...

wow I admit i am scum....vote for me

I don't know how to feel about that. It's either a pitty play for safety ("poor me, boo hoo, go ahead and hurt my innocent self...") or it's genuine. I'll keep reading to see if that clears up I suppose.

I'll be back!!

[AndyTony]

Unvote Vote

Unvote Vote

Unvote Vote

That is a lot of changing your mind for one day already. Enjoy killing townies don't you mafia man

You're making statements like this and are only hurting yourself - - you're being asked to defend yourself, take the opportunity!

I think you just want to kill me coz I am erractic, rather than because you think I am scum.

If you admit you want to kick me coz i am an annoying towny...i will accept that lol

You're being suspected as a poor playing scum, not an annoying towny.

If we agree with you, we're giving into your self proclaimation as a towny.

And if you're not lying - you're only going to hurt the town, we need bigger numbers and every lost towny messes the town over.

just explain, man..

WOW! Lynch me then

Okay...?

i self voted...coz i don't see how I am going to survive anyway. I call it assisted suicide

Stop playing the pitty card and just answer what people are asking of you

I like this game its exciting...I now how witches felt during the Spanish inquisition

Suspected witched. They, like the 1692 Salem trial victims were women who couldn't defend themselves.
This isn't Aurther Miller semiotically comparing Crucible to McCarthyism - so just defend yourself as town if that's who you are instead of cheap comments that only make you seem like you're looking for a pitty pass.

The people in witch trials didn't get to appropriately defend themselves - We're reasonable and are willing to hear you out! Just pipe up, dude.

lol clearly im the only person here who had an ex-girl friend obsesed with elves, goblins and underworld creatures lol.

Cephrir for DOC

I agree with what was said after you posted this. Although I get a sense you're potentially town, this is a solid scum evidence (or worth consideration at the very least). This could be communication to your potential scum buddy as you know you're on your way out. I'm not digging that.

FoS: millar13

I don't like that we're planting seeds like this...

EBWOP: Worry about my actions

in regard to Empking's identity

after we know if he's scum or not.

Bold added.

Emp is being judged for no good reason yet - lets not attach someone to his demise, that's worlds of trouble. It's too weak...

[AndyTony]

EXACTLY

- If scum were to get ahead, we would need all the townies possible to keep numbers up.

Let's keep Millar sweating at L-1 in hopes that if he is indeed scum, he will lead us to a partner, but I would feel a lot more comfortable if we use all the time we have for Day 1 and not risk mis-lynching...

[AndyTony]

Millar stop whining!!!!! Just convince us you're town already and stop being a baby about this

[AndyTony]

Am I being overly optimistic to believe scum wouldn't be as poorly played as millar or should I really consider lynching him? The whining is killing me

[AndyTony]

The Doc suspect is the only reason I wanted to keep Millar around - in case he's scum sending a line out to his partner.

After re-reading - I feel like Dejkha had it spot on in an earlier post regarding Millar being a pissed off towny who wanted a power role.

Killing Millar will hurt the town.

Unvote; FoS: Giuseppe

Millar's doomed himself. Can we please just hammer and be done with it?

--Earlier, you attached yourself to Emp (through things rofl said) in an attempt to clear your name upon the result of his lynching (you being innocent if....XXX...) - it's way too early in the game, he hadn't done anything scummy, and I think you were trying to buy immunity through it.

--And I think most of us are smart enough to know when someone is a threat to the town or not - - Millar is a threat to himself. I find it suspicious that you would want to hang him so quickly - - It's more of a threat to the town, when townies are being killed willy nilly, and that's what your eagerness kind of gives me a vibe off

I think we can try and put up with Millars annoying antics until he truly works against the town.

[AndyTony]

Concerned I had a vote on Millar and wanted to unvote to be certain - - I second guessed whether I fos'd him or put the heat on

[AndyTony]

As I see it, it would - - I'm not saying it will certainly hurt the town so much as I feel very strongly that he's a towny (an eccentric one at that)

I don't like the idea of killing townies - a body count is needed and the more the better (for the town).

He's been a danger to himself and only himself. I'll consider him a threat when he wants to hurt the town, but until then, he can babble nonesense all he wants, I just choose to rise above it.

I think that wanting to hammer a weak player is harmful to the town (understandably unintentional at times, hence I only have an FoS on Guiseppe and no vote, it's only fair)

[AndyTony]

- - sorry for not answering the question - - I wanted to keep him around because he's without a doubt a poor player - which means if he's scum, he can lead us to other scum - I wouldn't keep him around strictly for being scum lol

[AndyTony]

I think hammering this early in the game is irresponsible.

We should look for suspicion, not the obvious. The only obvious thing here is that millar plays poorly and is harmful to himself.

I find Guiseppe suspicious enough for us to simply talk to at this point. Let's get progressive conversation going.

By your logic, if Empking comes up scum, I can't be town. Which couldn't be true, from my perspective, because I am a pro-town player. Thus, if I'm to agree with you, Empking must be town.

Empking is someone who is LYNCHABLE but not SCUM-like (yet) - - that's very valuable to scum. If someone is going to be lynched, but isn't likely scum, they can make a statement like the above quote in an attempt to gain immunity when the person dies. "I'm innocent is XXX is found to be XXX" - it's too early for antics like that and it strikes me as scummy

I'd like to hear everyone's thought on this. - I'm not looking for us to get torches and pitch forks or anything, but it's worth regarding more than this Millar character at the moment

Tag fixed.

[AndyTony]

Madeofphail touched on this...

but I'm not "pretty much saying we shouldn't lynch scum"

I'm saying we should NEVER lynch town no matter how stupid or whiny they are.

And I'm saying we should KEEP hiim around if he's scum, because the only thing we do know is that he's a weak player, and his weakness will either prove a poor towny, or a shitty scum that will lead us to his partner - - I don't want to lose any opportunities. If he's town, he doesn't die and town heeps higher numbers - if he's scum, we can milk him for all he's worth.

My sentiment is that we try not to rush it is all...

millar is one vote away - I'm not ready to mislynch so early, it would hurt us

Anybody not posting and not voting - - do try to pop in and throw an opinion down, it's valued. And if it sways toward millar, so be it.
-----------------------

[AndyTony]

Okay. You've both argued your points well, and though I have my feelings toward lynching town, I suppose it is the only way to know.

gah.... I've been working on an essay and it's after midnight lol I thought I'd be coming to this board with some happy thing to read upon that didn't rack my brain more!!!

Okay.

Vote: Millar13

Phail - thanks for your concise point of view - - Giuseppe, appreciate the clarifiction on the FoS I had earlier..

I'll be back when I can. Gonna nap.

[AndyTony]

I felt strongly that he was town, but enough was said in favor of him being voted that I felt the most progress would be through putting in that vote. Guiseppe and Phail had okay lines of thought.

The only thing making me hold on to my wishful thinking was the much appreciated support/agreement with Dejkha.

I kind of feel like shit, now. Should have stuck to my guns.

(ps. shouldn't dead ppl NOT post on this board posthumously?)

A single 'bah' post is okay

[AndyTony]

Empking - please read through all the thread messages (even past where I said you, just like Millar, should have fair regard and not be hammered)

I thought he was town. I don't want mislynches.

I also discussed his possible scum angle. After giving fair time to read everyones take on the matter, I agreed he was potentially town playing a stupid angle.

I put a vote on him the moment I knew it was my solid decision I wouldn't take back. The fact that it was the LAST vote doesn't matter to me. If you care about the numbers, there are six other people to look at.

Do try and take some time and thought before making big boy decisions...

[AndyTony]

I'm being rather specific.

And I think it more insulting when someone persecutes me without a foundation and ignores posts I put work into.

You should have read them

[AndyTony]

Thank you, "felt" is past tense.

[AndyTony]

So was me accepting the notion of him being Scum - when I voted him. Are you all up to speed, now?

[AndyTony]

Please read my earlier posts where I exercise the idea of him being a poor played scum that was signaling his doc suspicion to his scum buddy.

Please read further into the other six people who voted, and the posts they made and expected people to read and consider, politely (which I did). And enough was said that suggested Millar needed lynching.

Please read.

[AndyTony]

this game has enough material for you to accurately quote and not paraphrase (poorly).

I thought he was town.

I thought he was scum.

I felt conflicted with both possibilities.

Enough was said by the others for me to consider and I voted him.

If I vote - It's because I think someone is scum.

And other people do matter, Empking, you can't stomp your foot like a child and toss your head - - other people matter and we rely on them for information, evidence, food for thought, and help when you need to clarify.

[AndyTony]

duly noted Dejkha

[AndyTony]

I think it's a little easy to get mad at a mislynch and angrily point fingers at the last one to vote.

I gave both sides of the coin a fair thought, I gave millar ample time to defend himself without typing nonesense or risking endagering people by claiming them doc or something - - And in the end, I was convinced by the well articulated thoughts of other voters.

I formulate thoughts based on what's offered around me - I don't do as I'm told - that's a rather elementary and vulgar way to look at it and I'm sure you're no cave man.

I'm sure you would appreciate the same courtesy I gave millar. In the end, I felt confident with my vote - - I only regret that we lost a towny.

**If you need a better explanation of my mindset, I REALLY would appreciate if you please re-read the process and the posts - - otherwise, ask me a specific question, instead of making blunt and uneducated assumptions about my intelligence and ability to formulate an opinion - I'm sure you're better than that.

Shoot me some questions when you get a chance if you need them
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Zwet

1.Why did you feel it was responsible and in the best interest of this town to vote someone based on actions outside this game?

Vote: Empking

We need MOAR Emp votes.

When asked why we should...

Don't even ask that question.

Sounds pretty reasonable....

2.Do you find that behavior fair?
3.Were you just following the herd? Just as you did when you got back for day 2?

millar was too erratic to be left alive.

People pleasing strikes me as under the radar and scummy.

And then Emp goes for an easy target - the guy who's vote came last in the lynch. I don't care if mine is first middle or last - when I'm ready to vote, I vote.

So Emp goes for the easy out and finds someone changing their mind based on case points as suspicious (that's a laugh) - and you drop wanting to kill the guy no matter what! You drop wanting him lynched and you support him?


Answer what you can and I'd appreciate input from others.


If anyone else has thoughts, do share.

[AndyTony]

FoS] Zwet

C:\>votecount

Running VoteCount

TM

AndyTony - 2 - Empking, Zachrulez
Empking - 1 - dejkha

Grimmy - 0
dejkha - 0
zwetschenwasser - 0
Pablo Molinero - 0
Giuseppe - 0
Zachrulez - 0
Cephrir - 0
madeofphail - 0

Not Voting: zwetschenwasser, millar13, AndyTony, madeofphail, Giuseppe, roflcopter, Cephrir, Pablo Molinero, Grimmy

With 10 players, it takes 6 to Lynch.

[AndyTony]

And we all sympathize with you greatly...

As for important things that can be looked into-

Phail made a good point at looking toward what made Rofl a night target -

There was the idea that maybe rofl made himself out to be a stronger/intimidating player - - I'd have to disagree - - though he had alright input at times, there were less mature "Ugh! hammer!!" and "wake me up when it's day 2" votes that suggested he didn't care too much.

I think it was after Millar tried to finger the doc - - look at everyone's reaction to the nature of that, and note his level/type of activity to follow (or his "line" as phail put it)

Any thoughts?

[AndyTony]

So dejkha, if i understand correctly your accusation of giuseppe is based on these things.
1). he does not really post any real material, he just kinda leeches off of other people's arguments.
2). he was opportunistic about voting millar

I feel like Giuseppe made attempts to forward things that yes, OTHER people brought up first - but to say he was opportunistic? That's to say he was scum (which is one angle) - yet, the opportunity could have been "Utility lynch. Get rid of a guy that's anti-town".

@Giuseppe - - What are your thoughts on the development, and the regard for your process? Do you have any defence for these things and furthermore, any thoughts to contribute that are "your own" as they say? I'm curious, and I think it would shed valued light.
------------------------------------------------
@Dejkha
Your concerns are valid and I agree with you, I just think it might have landed wrong. I feel Zwet is the one following herds and not necessarily contributing outside of people pleasing.
Day 1 - he followed the wagon on Emp
Day2 - he made the comment to fit in with the herd of voters about how "millar had to go"
Then he sided with Emp when he smelled a wagon - and the moment you and maybe two others raised an eyebrow to it - he shyed away from siding with Emp.

People pleasing strikes me as scummy. Thoughts?

[AndyTony]

I think it was him encouraging him and his "case"

It felt weird for me, you know?

[AndyTony]

Who haven't we heard from yet? Pablo and who else?

[AndyTony]

@Dejkha -

You and Phail are making a case against Guiseppe, but I have to raise my eyebrow to a few points.

Knowing what we know now, Millar was not doc hunting, but I'm curious as to how Zach didn't think Grimmy self voting was at all suspicious.

I would think that a self vote would more likely be done by scum than anyone else, possibly to throw people off

, so I don't see why he thought to go for millar right away rather than Grimmy, who he made no mention of. But seeing how Grimmy plays, it was probably was just a joke.

The reason scum would do it, I agree with you, is to throw people off.
Of

course

he is joking, no scum would say it and be SERIOUS - which is why we have to attach that to our first agreement - that scum would joke about it. I don't think Grimmy should be cleared for doing something scum would do - the obvious doesn't always mean the unlikely. Just because we think it to be so obvious and silly for scum to make a joke like that - it can be him buddying up with us using humor - - and off the top, on the first day of posting?

2. I think to say "Self-voting is never useful to your faction" is quite a bit false. And if it were to help anyone, I think it would be scum.

--------------------

Any real reason you're setting me and Zwet up to be lynched? I hardly say that stopping a quick lynch of Empking qualifies as defending him overtly. Let him actually have a chance to be scummy before you lynch him, at the very least.

Maybe the wording is throwing me off, but it sounds like he knows Emp is scum by saying "Any real reason you're setting me and Zwet up to be lynched".

He says to let Emp have a chance to be scummy before you lynch him. Judging from previous posts, he knows how Emp plays and knows that it's near impossible to tell the difference when it comes to his alignment, almost urging people not to vote him for as long as possible. The problem is, the longer he's alive, the longer scum can use him.

IMO - I think Guiseppe is defending himself against the guilt of EMP's meta, rather than guilt in this game. I myself favored you, dejkha, as a person to pay attention to, because I liked your valid points about the attempted fair trial of millar - - however, one of the things I considered when looking at the developments in the case was your signature.

I couldn't trust someone who STILL has a wagon on someone based on previous game play

.

Can you please explain why at this point in the game, you have such a signature still? It slightly contradicts the fair nature I appreciate from you, you understand.

I know a few people voted for millar for this reason, but given what I've seen from Giuseppe, this looks opportunistic. Then he says "Don't claim scum, if you don't mean it"

almost as it he knows 100% that he's scum just because he said so.

Why, based on your sig, do you know Emp is 100% worthy of being lynched (not necessarily scum, which is worse)? What is that based on in this game? How is losing another towny best for the town, and if he is not town, then why?
------------------------

[AndyTony]

I still am open to Emp's case, as

hammering comes under scrutiny in every game

and Andy hasn't done a particularly good job defending his.

I find "hammering" to be vulgar and blunt - - I gave Millar what I feel a fair trial, I regarded both possibilities, and by the end, through a communal effort and expression, I as the others felt it was best to vote.

I put my vote in and I would have done it if it were first middle or last - - I voted. I wasn't twiddling my mustache and cackling as I brought down thunder or something - I played the game.

No. I don't have a mustache.
----------------------------------
@Dejkha
In regards to my earlier portions of the post, what are your thoughts about Grimmy in respect to your feelings on self voting. It might be irresponsible to just give him a clean "oh well" - I think it deserves attention (Grimmy, I'm not saying you're a threat or trying to grill you, I just don't want to cancel out any potential topics of value)
Also, if Emp is a matter of "when", why does your vote fall on Guiseppe more so than him? Guiseppe is a victim of what seems to be circumstance (for what you regard as just re-typing more or less what everyone else says).
-----------------
@Cephrir
When you do come back after giving a read, can you elaborate as to what you found odd that hasn't been mentioned, and furthermore why you didn't bring it up then?
It would clarify for me whether you're trying to blend in or if you're like Guiseppe and don't "offer anything new" (I wouldn't hold the last part against you)
---------------

That Pablo guy still hasn't posted, has he? Silence doesn't rub me very well and smells scummy.

[AndyTony]

@Dejkha
In regards to my earlier portions of the post, what are your thoughts about Grimmy in respect to your feelings on self voting. It might be irresponsible to just give him a clean "oh well" - I think it deserves attention (Grimmy, I'm not saying you're a threat or trying to grill you, I just don't want to cancel out any potential topics of value)
Also, if Emp is a matter of "when", why does your vote fall on Guiseppe more so than him? Guiseppe is a victim of what seems to be circumstance (for what you regard as just re-typing more or less what everyone else says).

I'm not giving a Grimmy a pass on it, I just don't have much more to say about it other than it seems like something scum is more likely to do.

Emp is a matter a 'when' and that when isn't now, it's later. Lynching Giuseppe could be a huge move for town. Emp can very well be connected to Phail or Giuseppe. If Giuseppe is scum, then Emp has a good chance at being scum. If Giuseppe is town, then Phail may have the connection to Emp because of my previous suspicions and what Grimmy. But if we lynch Emp first and he flips scums, then we still have two likely people who could be his scumbuddy.

Lynching Giuseppe gives us more answers, and a better chance at winning, than lynching Emp does. As of right now that is.

I've re-read the two main statements on Guiseppe and appreciate you getting back to me.

FoS : Guiseppe

I'll make it a vote if:

1. Guiseppe poorly defends himself/doesn't offer better reasoning in another direction - lets be fair
2. If Pablo actually posts something and manages NOT to seem like scum under the radar
3. If Cephrir manages to explain WHAT he found suspicious "as well" yesterday, and explains why he felt it wasn't worth mentioning until it would make him immune with "one of the gang".

[AndyTony]

I asked him for clarification for why he voted guiseppe over anyone else he mentioned

[AndyTony]

I wanted to make a comment to the effect of "Stop assuming what I'm doing/thinking" but I don't have the energy to spend my birthday arguin with him

[AndyTony]

Looks to me like I'm asking a QUESTION and making no such statement as I happily dropped it after Dejkha as per usual, answered it fully.

Out of all the quotes you picked, though - it seems the issue wasn't you having a dellusion of me trying to get him to change his vote - - it seems (given the quote you chose) that you're uneasy with the idea of being voted instead of Guiseppe.

Are you nervous for some reason?
Do you have a problem with me asking clarification/wanting more proof of Guiseppe's guilt?
Do you prefer to lynch without fully understanding?
If you have a problem with me questioning Guiseppe being thrown up there, is that to say you agree he should be lynched and disagree with me questioning Dejkha? If that's the case, what are YOUR reasons for being against Guiseppe? Do you have any reasons of your own? Any at all? Would you prefer to stay under the radar and just not say?

[AndyTony]

@Dejkha
In regards to my earlier portions of the post, what are your thoughts about Grimmy in respect to your feelings on self voting. It might be irresponsible to just give him a clean "oh well" - I think it deserves attention (Grimmy, I'm not saying you're a threat or trying to grill you, I just don't want to cancel out any potential topics of value)
Also, if Emp is a matter of "when", why does your vote fall on Guiseppe more so than him? Guiseppe is a victim of what seems to be circumstance (for what you regard as just re-typing more or less what everyone else says).

I'm not giving a Grimmy a pass on it, I just don't have much more to say about it other than it seems like something scum is more likely to do.

Emp is a matter a 'when' and that when isn't now, it's later. Lynching Giuseppe could be a huge move for town. Emp can very well be connected to Phail or Giuseppe. If Giuseppe is scum, then Emp has a good chance at being scum. If Giuseppe is town, then Phail may have the connection to Emp because of my previous suspicions and what Grimmy. But if we lynch Emp first and he flips scums, then we still have two likely people who could be his scumbuddy.

Lynching Giuseppe gives us more answers, and a better chance at winning, than lynching Emp does. As of right now that is.

I've re-read the two main statements on Guiseppe and appreciate you getting back to me.

FoS : Guiseppe

I'll make it a vote if:

1. Guiseppe poorly defends himself/doesn't offer better reasoning in another direction - lets be fair
2. If Pablo actually posts something and manages NOT to seem like scum under the radar
3. If Cephrir manages to explain WHAT he found suspicious "as well" yesterday, and explains why he felt it wasn't worth mentioning until it would make him immune with "one of the gang".

And

DO

take time to actually READ, Emp - not only do you seem suspicious and irresponsible when trying to form shapes that resemble "thoughts".

I asked a question, made the comment to clarify my position, and appreciated his answer before dropping the subject.

[AndyTony]

Zach - Dej -

is this an Emp trap of confusion and no productivity?

[AndyTony]

If you're not against Guiseppe, then why would you have a problem with me asking Dejkha for clarification?

[AndyTony]

Emp, I really want to be fair with you but you make it hard.

You're looking like scum in addition to Dejkha's observation about why you're acting up right now, I think your vote on me is still thin

Vote: AT

- Hammered someone he thought was town.

Really? Because I explained to you that I changed my decision through a process - - it took many pages, and as you admitted your mistake of not reading that whole process and just going back with

No, the last three pages.

- how do you justify that vote on me, still? With only three pages? you're not going to read any more than that?

I don't think you're interested in the town's safety if you justify votes so thin. That, and I agree with what Dej said and what I'm leading to - - you seem to be scared scum - but I'll agree with "Emp stupidity" for now.

[AndyTony]

post 269 -

don't try and go off track-

better explain your vote

[AndyTony]

You're just making ridiculous statements now! I haven't misquoted you, the quote I pulled was from 269, and it was in context of people suggesting how far back you read before your ridiculous decision against me!

I do NOT hammer people I think are town - PROVE that outlandish theory - I hammered MILLAR because I did not believe him to be INNOCENT. End of story!

You're just making childish statements! Your vote means nothing and it's scummy in my eyes, man.

[AndyTony]

post 269 -

That's a lie.

You hammer people you think are town, you lie and you try the chainsaw defence.

Really? The ABOVE quote isn't the one you were talking about and I know it? Are you INSANE????

Oh, I'm sorry - if what you're saying is true, and you weren't saying that 269 was a lie on MY part and you DID mean another quote - - Does that mean that YOU were lying in 269 - - or do you just babble NONESENSE?

[AndyTony]

and by the way, try reading ALL the big scary words so you understand their MEANING

Okay. You've

both argued your points well

, and

though I have my feelings toward lynching town,

I suppose it is the only way to know.

gah.... I've been working on an essay and it's after midnight lol I thought I'd be coming to this board with some happy thing to read upon that didn't rack my brain more!!!

Okay.

Vote: Millar13

Phail - thanks for your concise point of view - - Giuseppe, appreciate the clarifiction on the FoS I had earlier..

I'll be back when I can. Gonna nap.

I'm saying ALTHOUGH I hate misynches, I'm not going to let it stop me from voting what looks like scum you DOLT

C:\>votecount

Running VoteCount

TM

Giuseppe - 2 - dejkha, madeofphail

AndyTony - 1 - Empking

Empking - 0
Grimmy - 0
dejkha - 0
zwetschenwasser - 0
Pablo Molinero - 0
Zachrulez - 0
Cephrir - 0
madeofphail - 0

Not Voting: zwetschenwasser, millar13, AndyTony, Giuseppe, roflcopter, Cephrir, Pablo Molinero, Grimmy, Zachrulez

With 10 players, it takes 6 to Lynch.

[AndyTony]

Another loaded question AND you're missed where I quoted you, quoting ME saying "post 269" and you said "LIE" - - explain!

[AndyTony]

When did I say that quote was what I was talking about? Quotes please.

269 was not about me reading.

You know that or you're a hypocritical idiot who should kill himself. Which one is it?

You're not telling me to agree with you or say I'm an idiot? That's not a loaded question?

Dejkha, Zwet, and anyone with a brain - - I apologize for being so ignorant to your feeligns about this moron and am going to enjoy the rest of my birthday off of this board and out and about.

Happy trails - talk to you guys later

[AndyTony]

Phail - thanks for the wishes - - the bday is great minus the homework (they really ram you in second year, eh? Make you know who's boss and cry uncle lol)

-------------------
I'm torn between voting Emp or Guiseppe.

Guiseppe
-In addition to the valuable points that I'm for the most part inclined to agree with (Dej and Ceph)...
-I think that somebody trying to scumhunt does so for their own reasons. There is nothing wrong with agreeing, going off someone else and adding etc - but I personally draw the line when someone changes their vote for

other people

.
I think Guiseppe has been put against a wall and is trying to people please to save his life in a failed attempt to distance himself from Emp, his potential scum partner.
-He chose when to and not to acknowledge Emp's meta and furthermore let it effect him.
-He is now twice going after the easier lynch

Unless the above is cleared up to my standards, I'm going to vote Guiseppe.
---------
Emp
-Going off of wheat I'm hearing about the guy, and Guiseppe's comparisson to a previous game, I reckon it's hard to tell if he is ever scum or towny, that he just plays hard headed and crosses his fingers.
-Emp has been unclear, OMGUS, negative, unproductive, and fails to scum hunt in an adult, concise, and clear manner that this game demands. These things are harmful to town, scum or not. However, I am inclined to think scum.

Vote: Emp

I agree with Dejkha that we wouldn't want Emp around for lylo and that his demise is a matter of when, not if. My vote remains on Emp - but if Guiseppe is not cleared in the above by deadline, and done so well, I will change my vote to him. - it remains on Emp because frankly, I'm hoping for better from Guiseppe. Emp looks worse, he gets my present vote - - Guiseppe not being cleared in time or doing a poor job - he'd look worse.

You could be both scum and this could all be less troubling for me than I know.

[AndyTony]

Vote: Emp

I agree with Dejkha that we wouldn't want Emp around for lylo and that his demise is a matter of when, not if. My vote remains on Emp - but if Guiseppe is not cleared in the above by deadline, and done so well, I will change my vote to him. - it remains on Emp because frankly, I'm hoping for better from Guiseppe. Emp looks worse, he gets my present vote - - Guiseppe not being cleared in time or doing a poor job - he'd look worse.

You could be both scum and this could all be less troubling for me than I know.

In addition to my feelings to Guiseppe - I think that it's narrow minded to kick up a fuss about basing suspicions on NK's - - They are actually VERY valuble to us. We're not supposed to ignore scum actions. If we understand why they do what they do, we can lynch them silly.

Vote: Guiseppe

[AndyTony]

Unvote
Vote:Guiseppe

[AndyTony]

I definately made my mind up above with the Guiseppe vote. He didn't clear himself up for me, and his latest post barely touched on why he was innocent, it seemed more like "why these people are more guilty" - - - the unfortunate thing about that is everyone he's saying is more guilty seem to be guilty for the exact things we brought up against him. In that most recent post, he tried to shift all the htins we have on him, onto Zach - -

Zach told me the vote on me would stand until I better explained my actions - after I did that and things were picking up, he unvoted - I think Guiseppe was reaching trying to put someting on Zach.

He then made a more solid decision on Emp instead of his last seemingly people pleasing attitude of switchign the vote to what wouldn't piss anyone off

and then ended the message with an apologetic and non commital description of his circumstance - - don't get me wrong, we've all been tired, and we all share things like that - but he attached it to his full body reasoning so that he could say "hey, I understand you're mad, but like I said, I was out of it"
----------
My votes gonna stay - - and I don't think hopping off Emp is running from a burning wagon lol you've given him the mark of death and feel confident he shouldn't live, everyone is uneasy with him etc. - - I'm just living up to what I said in my post when I balanced these two players, and Dej, I've gotta go with Guiseppe.

[AndyTony]

Then you admit it was a scumtell and there's no need to twist your words.

- Zwet, I think it's coming across right now like you're favoring a target/heat toward Dej and it's not only clouding judgement and wasting potentially better scum hunting time - but it's making you look suspicious.

Supposing you indeed feel Dej is MORE scummy than things you do (and admit) you notice - - are you trying to tell us you're only goin to aid the town by telling us what you find to be the scummiest, and in the player you choose no less? You're just going to ignore all scumtells if it doesn't apply to your choice?

[AndyTony]

Guiseppe-

I still have a vote on you for reasons mentioned in my earlier post.
Can you address my issues and better defend yourself, as well as contribute your thoughts to zwet focusing in on Dej in a scummy way? It can potentially satisfy my suspicions and boost your rate of activity

**Vote remains

FoS: Zwet

[AndyTony]

Okey Dokey...

[AndyTony]

Let's not crucify him over something like that - - he's clearly stating "Zwet,

by your logic

, If Millar was my scum buddy"

We might have an issue with Emp's attitude and style, but self proclaiming scum isn't something I've seen from him, and that statement would be just as bad.

It's only useful to us because it helped illustrate Zwet's mindset to ignore all thigns seemingly scum tell and focus unfairly on one person (in this instance, Dej)

----
I'd rather keep my vote on Guiseppe - he hasn't defended himself yet and the longer he takes and more things he goes off track about only make me feel better about it.

Let's hear more from the accused and especially the silent ones.

[AndyTony]

It's bloody Symantics!! It's not his nature! And I'd defend that point a little more for the little shit, but he fucking slaps it right back in your face and the CTD calls you an ABR!

I know I haven't given him an reason to unvote me yet personally

This is the same reason I haven't unvoted you, Guiseppe

Emp's lynch really does give us more information than my lynch, because it opens up information about Dej's behavior.

This is a very compelling expression of "look at Emp, not me", and I really do agree with a lot of the points and feel the same way, however - my vote doesn't change for it.

First

-All of the theories that would be disproved are weak theories - they are based on who does and does not want Emp around.

Second

-I'm all for the lynching of Emp because I don't like him, but the reason I don't do it now is because he could

still be town

. We're trying to justify killing the guy so we can prove the innocence of others - - that's insanity! Let's prove/disprove his innocence through actual scum hunting and not semantics and broad opinions

Third

-Dej said it's a matter of "when" for Emp. I agree, but not because I'm gonna vote him - I think it's when because I'm playing with a group with this kind of logic, and Emp plays right into it. Dej isn't shielding Emp and niether am I - - I'm embracing the fact that he could be town.

We don't have amazing cases on anyone that will be out the window - we have hopes and suspicions with what seems like fewer and fewer quotes and pieces of evidence - - the last time we had it was in the hunt on Guiseppe.

[AndyTony]

If any of the points on Guiseppe seem less likely or equally unfair, let us know, but the guy is easier to read, and still hasn't defended himself

[AndyTony]

** He admits he hasn't, which I don't like because it would relieve votes on him which I would think is a priority to someone rather than trying to point out who a better lynch is - upon thin provocation

[AndyTony]

Your treatment of Millar and defense of a quick lynch on Emp is clear for me -

The only thing not cleared for me by you is the people pleasing - I'd have to say it's a huge thing with me, I always see something scummy about that - changing/basing votes on what the gang'll like.

I'll chalk it up to you being desperate to shake off some negativity.

Unvote

I can't see a responsible lynch today as things are, however

FoS : Dejkha

None of your outcomes involve the direct possibility of you being scum (unless you count us starting from square one after the possibilities die)

I think that you have a strong desire for Emp to die, but you're keeping him on the backburner with the excuse of him being a lesser evil/possible town when that same consideration isn't being given to Guiseppe.

That's to say, you get Guiseppe killed, and have Emp to fall back on the next day for another town kill - - ultimately, that's four kills for a scum, all the while you maintain the most activity and try to make it subconscious knowledge that you're town.

It's a thought, not an attack. I don't feel comfortable with a vote on anyone just yet (Thank you for taking the time to clear up, Guiseppe - I hope your interest in the game stays up!)

AA

[AndyTony]

Exactly - and one could suppsoe scum want what's worst for the town Guiseppe.

@Dej - - It's just a thought - - and it would matter to you only because the outcome keeps you looking town without having to say a word.

I'm not reading into it that much - I'm feeling a dry spell and can only express that lynching Emp might be harmful in the respect that it sounds like a utility lynch. I dont think it's fair to him

[AndyTony]

NO. this is still wrong -

You're agreeing, and also DISAGREEING -

Call this a little prophecy:

The game will not recover from an Empking lynch later than Day 2.

Unfortunately I think you're right. We're gonna have to do it today.

Where's your vote if it has to be today? Are you trying to play both sides of the argument to keep us happy and us off your back?

Why do we agree it would be unfair, and an irresponsible utility lynch, yet agree it's innevitable.

If you feel it's innevitable, vote for him and get it over with, otherwise, we should just drop it until we get better information.

I for one am going to wait to hear from the silent people flying under the radar. The people who are participating as little as possible.

It would suck if we did the scum work while they all sit back - - let's not hurt the town because we feel obliged to cast votes and kill every day.

[AndyTony]

No Lynch is always, always, always a horrible idea.

Scum killing in the night is innevitable - it's going to happen and we not only learn from the scum kill choice, but we eliminate suspects.

Killing a towny will only aid their body count before what will absolutely happen.

That is, if you can prove someone is scum, and not just suspicious or a "possible" lynch.

I don't want to play it tooooo safe - - We have time.

As of yet, I feel a no lynch. - - but I do want to wait for the under the radar gang to get active and hopefully we can have someone worth looking into

[AndyTony]

I'm saying that we have time until deadline - - if nothing develops by then, I'd go with a no lynch rather than a mislynch (as it stands) - that way we lose one instead of two.

Is that wrong?

I'm not saying we should stop scum hunting in the least bit if that's what you're worried about - we clear? lol

[AndyTony]

I'm saying at this very moment - I feel it's no lynch because everyone is bitching about "wah wah wah, I want to lynch this person, they are ABSOLUTELY gone before day two" but I'm not seeing the votes, and I'm not seeing the EVIDENCE - - I'm seeing speculation.

We're focusing on "We have to lynch! We have to lynch"

And we're forgetting that our objective is "We have to find scum"
---------------------------------
No lynch at this very moment means we lose one towny instead of two.

I'm saying that FROM this very moment until deadline, I am STRONGLY hoping that we get evidence and a solid and responsible choice that means more to us than utility lynching.

My mindset of trying to lessen town expense is pretty bang on unless you can tell me RIGHT NOW who is scum and why, otherwise we're being IRRESPONSIBLE. Maybe I feel guilty about being responsible for the first mis-lynch but I will be damned if I'm the cuase of another one.
----------------
You raise a great point about the lurkers you listed - - Why not prod and investigate them instead of wager who is best to lynch "just in case" so to speak.

[AndyTony]

I'm fully willing to lynch today, but if the evidence isn't there and we stay as is with speculation, I'm fully in the right.

unless you don't mind the idea of losing two town over one (obviously you don't, but that's my point)

[AndyTony]

This is where it gets iffy because both parties are right - - I agree with you, but scum would be afraid of good scum hunting and lynch choices.

I think they (on the flipside of what you said) would be rather pleased with a mislynch and a free night kill - - two kills for them and they stay alive

I'm just saying that we need more developments because as of yet, I'm not ready to vote for lesser evils or utilities like some suggest

[AndyTony]

We've acknowledged we have four lurkers - yet we're talking about lynching Emp because we take certain players words as LAW and predictions that we're screwewd if he lives past day 2?

[AndyTony]

To say that Emp being lynched is scumhunting sounds weak to me because there's more evidence to you thinking people CONNECTED to him are scum rather than HIM being scum.

I WANT to understand this better - and I'm willing to put a vote in, but can I get the case on him laid out for me in lamens terms please? It would mean a lot to me and I'd appreciate you taking the time to do that

[AndyTony]

I do mean that by the way - I'd appreciate it lo

[AndyTony]

what's his "L" status? How many votes has he got on him?

[AndyTony]

K...

Vote : Empking

At the very least, I'd like this to inspire him to post a bit more and at the very least defend himself.

I've considered the evidence on him and Guiseppe in realtion, yes, to the relationships. I suppose I value direct links rather than webs of "if this person is X than that person is Y" - -

Can you hit me up with that list of who is potentially what based on his allignment?

[AndyTony]

Call this a little prophecy:

The game will not recover from an Empking lynch later than Day 2.

Unfortunately I think you're right. We're gonna have to do it today.

Then where's your vote?

Yes, our main objective is to find scum, and we don't find scum by no lynching.

Then that should say something about our lurking buddies.

I'm just hoping we can play it safe and not have any regrets

[AndyTony]

Cephrir's lurking and activity like the above makes me nervous...

[AndyTony]

I concur -

I can't do all his defending FOR him just because I feel shitty about the mislynch

I can't help it if Emp doesn't defend himself. Maye he's not doing it because he's scum, we're on to his walk of death, and he doesn't give a crap. I wouldn't know, I don't play with him.

Thank you for understanding my points about the no lynch - - I understand that though the intentions are well, the outcome in this particular scenario doesn't merit such an action.

Cyph - - Wanna explain the post Dej and I were uneasy about? It seems like you're trying to be one with the majority but don't want to take any responsibility for it - -

[AndyTony]

I'm referring to the mislynch we had earlier - I feel shitty about that one - sorry for not making it clear
---------------------------------------------
You seem troubled, yet admit you are convinced his lynch is innevitable - I'm still confused on it
----------------------------------------------

Zwet and Grimmy have been pretty silent.

Emp hasn't given a crap about his life.

Here we are.

[AndyTony]

lol
First section @Giusepp

Second section @Ceph

third to all

[AndyTony]

A lot of what you're bringing up is the rehashing of issues people had already (both valid and invalid) - - and I have already expressed my reasoning tirelessly.

If you have a

Specific

question, I'm more than willing to answer it, but don't think you can make us boot you out of the "lurking" list because you're compensating with regurgitation of other people's thoughts - - thoughts I've been since clear from.

I'm happy to answer the specifics, not the re-stating of old questions in an attempt to draw negative attention away from you and what seemed to be your scummy action.
-------------------------
In addition to trying to divert attention from you, and compensate lurking with filler, you've attempted to say you didn't vote Emp because he's at L-1.

He wasn't at L-1 when you made the statement and furthermore agreed that the only choice was to lynch him - - that he could NOT live past day 2. Why make a solid statement and hide in the shadows without responsibility for it? Are you scum and know he's innocent? Do you want him to be lynched, and be able to say "hey I didn't mislynch" to one half of us, and "Hey, I agreed with you guys" to the angry voters?

You were considering STRONGLY an Empt vote as early as your posting pages and pages back on 337
------------------
In addition to the above points, you've furthermore failed to answer questions I asked you in two seperate past posts.

I was also finding Giuseppe a bit odd yesterday, I'll look over what's been said later.

RL is eating me again =/

I asked you twice about this.

What did you find odd about him?

Why would you NOT bring it up the day before? Why withold?

[AndyTony]

I made it clear that I was troubled between Emp and Millar

I observed both sides of whether Millar was innocent or guilty and was vocal more so for the innocence because I wanted to believe there was room to wait - - I took comfort in having Dej agree for the most part, but after the excellent points between Guiseppe and Phail leading up to the lynch, I was sold on my points for the neg, as well as the points they stressed that we discussed - - the last thing to sell it for me was Dej's signature to be honest. I didn't think I could invest my feelings toward the innocence of Millar from someone who was willing to Lynch Emp from day 1. So I was sold and felt it was for the best.
-----------
That's all

[AndyTony]

It seems to me that what keeps catching everyones attention is the fact the my mind was made up - - there is no rule in this game saying I can't take my own time with things, really - -

I wanted to talk to Guiseppe because of what he wrote - - it's quoted in the very quote you've thrown up without reading - - I suggest you didn't read it because had you gone to the very next post after that, you would have seen that Guiseppe had immediately explained the statement that made me wonder about him for a moment - - he cleared it up and I moved on.

If I full on suspected him, I would have listed questions for him.
-------------

And are you forgetting that Millar also posted in the time it took for me to say "hey now, lets not be TOO hasty about this" - - he guy dug himself a grave near the end, didn't give a SHIT about his life (which was suspicious), and turned out to occupy most of my mind because of his distracting ways because of such, there's nothing suspicious about that on my end.
------------

I've always answered my questions fully and don't have a problem with them because they always shed a little bit more light on innocence and guilt - that being said, is everybody honestly satisfied with the responses I've been given by Ceph?

He's been lurking, popping up and down from the radar, people pleasing, and now he's sitting on the fence trying not to have responsibility for the things he says.

He's made more than one statement to suggest a lynch on Emp is absolutely necessary, and his mention of such goes back many pages - - enough pages to have done it before his convenient excuse of "well he's at L-1" meant a damn.

Not voting would otherwise have suggested a thought of innocence, no?

Please Ceph - - either answer the question or give us your case points.
----------------------
Don't get me wrong, Ceph may very well be innocent and has the rotten luck of popping out of a lurking stage first - - having said that, Dej - - Can you do that little magic trick again? The one where you mention the scum seeming lurkers and they suddenly post with promises of posts that don't come?

[AndyTony]

Weird wording and typos in the top - -

Point of it is that we're forgetting Millar did some posting along the way when I was weighing out his innocence, and he didn't help his case in any way as we can all agree --- I think what makes anything out of this is that people seem to think I just changed my mind willy nilly by my own accord (I recently threw Will Nilly in my vocab and haven't regretted it yet - give it a go).

[AndyTony]

I don't want to blame himfor dropping the hammer, if anything, I'm INTERESTED in what he may find valid reason to have not done so. I'm convinced, so my vote is in, but I think I've shown I'm constantly open to hearing something new/different (so much so that it's annoyed a bit lol) - - I just wanted clarification Ceph, I'm not trying to grill you.

[AndyTony]

That's where my confusion with him comes in, Zach. I've only been on this site for over a month and I never know if he's babbling nonesense or saying something I should look up in the wiki

[AndyTony]

okay..

C:\>votecount

Running VoteCount

TM

Empking - 5 - Giuseppe, Zachrulez, dejkha, AndyTony, madeofphail

Cephrir - 1 - Empking

AndyTony - 0
Giuseppe - 0
Grimmy - 0
dejkha - 0
zwetschenwasser - 0
Pablo Molinero - 0
Zachrulez - 0
madeofphail - 0

Not Voting: zwetschenwasser, Cephrir, Pablo Molinero, Grimmy

With 10 players, it takes 6 to Lynch.

[AndyTony]

but at L-1, wouldn't that make what you do now something along the lines of your "last words"

If it's the last

resort

, then where is your first one? Why have you not posted, defended yourself clearly etc? I'm just trying to understand it better is all

---------
Also, and this is to everyone

Can I get a ruling on that Millar issue?

It just FEELS like people ACCEPT that my decision was made over the posting period near the end when they want to focus on other people,

and the moment I threaten that or maybe turn an eye to scum, I get a lashing and they FLIP on me.

It's like they use it as it's convenient - - whatever suits them best.

I considered both sides of Millar's case. I made statements about not wanting to go so fast that we mislycnh. In addition to my thoughts and feelings, Phail and Guiseppe laid out a solid case, AND we can't forget that Millar did nothing to defend himself or aid a scum hunt in a tangable direction - - it was these things that convinced me.

Also remember that I had a different definition, a personal definition of "hammer" - remember I thought it had a negative connotation? It's since been corrected but I wanted to make it clear.

If someone has a problem, voice it now, otherwise I'd like to stop being selectively hasseled because of it.

[AndyTony]

I hadn't refreshed the page, but yeah - Zach hit the last resort point.

[AndyTony]

And I mean "Flip" as in switching from believing me to questioning me, not losing their shit

[AndyTony]

I hear your point and understand my "not wanting to butt heads" mentality will ultimately be the death of me, but - I just always thought this game had a different nature to it - - I've played a game where someone butted heads with me for the hell of it and almost screwed the town, all because they think arguing is a scumtell when in reality it's an attempt to hold your own - you know?

And I don't say one thing and vote another - - If I'm a victim for being the first person in Mafiascum.net history to have had an opinion, thought about it, and changed it, then so be it - - but Millar failed to convince me he was innocent and that is flat.
----------------------------------
I'm keeping the Emp vote.

I think it will be a relief to have him out of the equation because as of yet, he is polluting proactive thought - - he comes across as scummy, so I don't regret my vote, I'm sorry - and in addition, without him, he will no longer be a scapegoat for scum and a distraction for town.

I think he's scum, and I feel strongly at this point he should be lynched
----------------------------------

[AndyTony]

I want to hear from Grimmy. He's flown right over my head and I haven't paid attention to him

[AndyTony]

@dej: Do you have any suspicions of me other than a gut feeling?

@Dej - Can you elaborate?

I've got a bad feeling about him and Cephir.

If there's more than a bad feeling, we're open to hear it - - and oddly enough, you have a gut feeling on one player, and a vote on another because he had

more

than a gut feeling and analyzed something - - it seems a little hypocritical -

Can you expand?

----------------------
@Grimmy -
Why so few posts? You haven't contributed a single thing except for the early day 1 vote you put on yourself.

Did we all find that to be cute and towny of him and just ignore him for the rest of the time?

[AndyTony]

overlapped post**

[AndyTony]

How do we all feel about this Grimmy situation?
-----------------------------------------------------
@Dej
Perhaps Mop was analyzing in an attempt to forward us with progressive thought - in all fairness, we needed saving from straw grasping several times

[AndyTony]

Why didn't you mention the suspicion when you had it? (if you did, I just nee it pointed out, is all) - - it would otherwise seem like a scum tactic - - not mention the suspicion to keep focus on your target and then bring it up when Mop is next in line.

and WHERE is Grimmy? He stopped posting ages back - do we need a replacement, or is he cackling at us?

[AndyTony]

There was a lot of discussion leading up to Emp's demise and I was in full support of him going - however, Zwet: Why would you make a statement upon the hammering to suggest it was a utility lynch? Why did you not present or comment on any cases and fail to have a case on Dej?

Can you elaborate on how he strikes you as useless and unhelpful? Or worse than you for that matter?

I'm not sure if it has to be in bold or not but:
MOD - Can we get a prod to Grimmy?

[AndyTony]

Cheers!

[AndyTony]

Vote:Zwet

----------------------------------

Dammit! Pull this win out, town. Do it for the Pablo!

If you weren't dead, this would be a scumtell.

Vote: dejkha

I'm not happy with your rationalization of pointing out scumminess in a dead towny before your vote, and having to be ASKED for an explanation and not offer it with the vote.

The explanation being

dej has been completely useless and unhelpful and nasty.

I'm worried you're scum and think that you can take advantage of any tendency we have in cases going thinner and thinner until they are seemingly utility

Vote: Empking

And so dies uselessness...

You hardly contribute to the cases, and at the very last moment, make it seem like an agreed utility lynch based on how useless someone is? -- and because we don't argue with you over perverting our lynch, you think it's okay to set up another person for the same reason - - what you call uselessness.

Smells like scum to me. Clean up your vote/defend yourself (or keep up the "master of the 5 word post" game and let your scumbuddy slip up for us)

[AndyTony]

Fair -

Unvote

FoS - Zwet

I'm letting it hang on how Grimmy responds and accounts for doing virtually nothing on day 2 and being completely out of the loop, and having only voted himself.

Far as I'm concerned - there are two scum, and two people I'm not impressed with.

I'm comfortable hunting on them.

[AndyTony]

If that were true, why not apply what you were testing to the actual vote? It strikes me as backtracking and brushing aside the fact that you felt it was necessary to vote someone just to see if they would admit to a third of your unsupported statements against them.

Could have just asked/proven/stated - a vote seems like a more bold decision.

[AndyTony]

the first sentence is to say, why vote without listing what you were "testing" - - why wait a long while before giving the reasons? It seems like you were just making this up as you went along and you're just lookin to start an early wagon

[AndyTony]

Then how is it that you roll? Am I supposed to disregard what normally looks like scummy behavior because you've developed an identity on this site for short posting that doesn't always help us?

If you're not making this up as you go along, and tryin to back track - -

Address my concerns in the post where I voted you - fully - and further explain why you say you were voting him as a test, yet took five hours to actually conduct it. You threw the vote at him to rattle the cage and cross your finers for a wagon - and had bs reasons to do it, and you're passing it off as a TEST?

Are you trying to say you were incapable of telling him you thought he was nasty without voting him?

I think your excuses are thin and unconvincing as of yet...

[AndyTony]

As for the rest. I just think the on/off voting patterns like that are scummy (and I haven't turned a blind eye to Andy Tony's either)

Remember he's saying we

both

pulled off after that big defense post - - and I don't believe there was ever a change in vote pattern without me specifically saying why - I think the reason is chief, Dej - what you're saying would make sense, but I think it applies to someone who's following the wagons like stock markets rather than explaining their actions.

Deal with it. They're true.

I'm explaining that my only way to deal with it is to vote you on finding it scummy, Zwet - I understand your attention span is shorter than your posts and don't want to burden you, but until you can illustrate your reasoning behind what I regarded as scummy

Vote: Zwet

Far as I'm concerned, talking to Grimmy is a matter of finding out if he's your partner. No reason to take a vote off one scum just because we all remember there's another.

Cheers, Zwet. Wish you'dve cared enough to have just cleared it all up.

[AndyTony]

I held stuck with my votes and always had a list of things I needed until I would vote/unvote - I don't disagree they happened, I'm just saying I'd be more suspicious of unexplained ones. And I stayed with Guiseppe pretty long without caring about there being low votes on him and things picking up on Emp - - He hadn't cleared himself for me.

And would you say it's a fair satement that our cases constantly wavered? That there was a lot of reasonable doubt and loose suspicion?

I think this whole game has been void of a real solid case; it's disheartening and unfortunate, but rather true.

[AndyTony]

I think what I have going with Zwet is strong enough.

My final point on him in addition to my own suspicion, if you're interested (assuming you read my portion about thinking he's scum and making up things as he goes along while justifying his actions)- - if he really did conduct a test on you by seeing if he could make you admit to being nasty by voting you (yet voting you first and waiting many hours and a page before actually CONDUCTING the test) - why didn't he take his vote off you? Surely the test was over when he mentioned it.

I think he's scum and that his short and unhelpful posts are as bad as lurking - I think that his comment when hammering Emp was a pervertion of our process, making a statement to suggest we lynch by utility and that "uselessness" was a factor - - thus he felt he could get away with startin a wagon on you Dej, and make the basis "uselessness" - - that didn't fly with us, so he said it was a test (a poorly conducted one) refused to acknowledge my thoughts or defend himself, and still hasn't unvoted you (thus destroying the notion it was an innocent test) and still getting away with having a vote on you for no good reason at this very moment

[AndyTony]

Are you asking us to do the work for you, or are you making shit up as you go along again?

What's scummy about it?

[AndyTony]

This post, to me says that zwet wants to start a dejkha wagon. The only reasons I can think for doing this is for scum to get a quick lynch

I agree fully - -

I think he voted him for no reason - - got called on it, and gave these reasons:

dej has been completely

useless

and unhelpful and nasty.

thinking he could get away with it because we didn't call him on making our wagon hammer like a utility lynch

Vote: Empking

And so dies

uselessness

...

And when I called hiim out on it, he tried to say it was just a big test of sorts - - when really, if it were a test, he would have taken his

vote off

by now.

His vote is still on Dej and he's failed to give reasons, defend himself, or acknowledge or thoughts on him - - I agree fully with your statement, Phail

[AndyTony]

It was actually a test vote to see what dej responded to. He admitted to nastiness.

You're clearly bs-ing as you go along, I'm sorry, that's just flat.

you said it was a test vote, but conducted the test a page and 6 hours later after voting? And you were testing to see what he responded to? How does one fail? How does failure of any sort to something so stupid merit scumminess?

I'm sorry, you're not helping yoru case, Zwet.

[AndyTony]

Yes Dej,

especially if it's a weak scum wagon that isn't picking up

[AndyTony]

some MORE blatant scumtells?

That's the same one you mentioned earlier and it was no good THEN

[AndyTony]

Zwet - are you going to waste our time and ask us to find scumminess FOR you so you can keep your baseless, scummy vote on Dej?

[AndyTony]

Grimmy - no need for that man - we can all be civil. Or at least try to lol

[AndyTony]

Zwet, how is my comment anti town?

[AndyTony]

FoS's at this point still?

If he keeps up like this, I at least want to see Zwet sweat.

That ryhmes.

Let's see if he can get his scumbuddy to slip

[AndyTony]

Before Emp was lynched, you suggested lynching me randomly, and then you threw an OMGUS FoS to Phail

[AndyTony]

Zach strikes me as potentially being Zwet's scum partner

I think a decent case can be made to lynching AndyTony instead. I am feeling more and more weary about him the more he posts.

He randomly tried to point a finger at me without evidence. The above quote is part of a post where he sates that he didn't believe Emp should be lynched.

He seemed to have forgotten that he himself had a vote on Emp at the time, Emp was at L-1, and I was NOT the only person pushing for a hammer. I think it was a scum tactic to aid the wagon yet be able to say later "Hey! A part of me knew the guy was innocent, I'm not mailicious!"
--------
Then Pablo points out the flaws in Zach's logic,

zach

After this post, I think everyone should be voting for Emp...

Vote : Empking

The way I see it the post is Emp stating that he wasn't scum with Millar while implying that he's scum with someone else.

Awful, awful, awful logic capitilizing on a minimalist (and annoying) player. Complete leap of logic and a bad reason.

Vote: Giuseppe
FoS: Zachrulez

The above was fair and understandable, yet...

There you go pushing that scum driven wagon again.

Your position is logically flawed,

because as scum, you have every motivation to lead the town to believe that the wagon was in fact scum driven, so that they'll never call you on your distancing from townie lynches.

FOS: Pablo

That said, if you're hypothetically scum, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that your scumbuddy was on the wagon... and really, what reason would you have to worry about him getting lynched? I mean, you're the one telling us it's scum driven, and

you're the one who will tell us who to suspect right?

Even if we don't listen to you, it's still a minimal risk, and validates your theory even if we did manage to hypothetically hit your scumbuddy...

Zach has flawed and slightly hypocritical logic once more in what I feel is an OMGUS FoS on Pablo (who I might point out dies later in the night).
----------------------
Zach hopped on the Emp wagon - - got pissed at me who was ALSO on the wagon and said I should be lynched (didn't elaborate) - - then was inquired by Pablo, to whom Zach calls scum (once again doesn't elaborate) and Pablo later dies in the night.

I think Zwet's buddy might be Zach

C:\>votecount

Running VoteCount

TM

zwetschenwasser - 2 - Cephrir, AndyTony

madeofphail - 1 - dejkha
dejkha - 1 - zwetchenwasser

Cephrir - 0
AndyTony - 0
Giuseppe - 0
Grimmy - 0
Zachrulez - 0

Not Voting: Grimmy, Giuseppe, Zachrulez, madeofphail

With 8 players, it takes 5 to Lynch.

[AndyTony]

EBWOP - - Zach says the final quoted portion TO Pablo

[AndyTony]

I wasn't really sure about his lynch. To be quite honest, I kinda went with the crowd on that lynch

That's what I'm saying - If you were unsure, why not voice more on it and pull him off L-1? You're complaining about a hammer ending your line of thoughts and magically clearing your suspicions the next day? You ARE allowed to voice suspicions the next day, you know -and you could have bought your OWN time by taking him off L-1

He seemed to have forgotten that he himself had a vote on Emp at the time, Emp was at L-1, and I was NOT the only person pushing for a hammer.

Well yeah, but I made no real active effort to derail the lynch for bogus reasons or no reason whatsoever

Then why turn attention away from a wagon we were both on, and say I would be the best lynch without giving any reasons?

Hypocritical how?

I never got a chance to elaborate cause moron Zwet dropped the hammer... oh yeah, I guess that makes him my buddy.

Oh I love these hammers that cut off discussion before I have a chance to make my case or unvote, or explain anything... and now apparently it's damning evidence that I'm scum with Zwet.

Nobody told you to keep your vote. You could have bought yourself more time.

You're hypocritical because you defend having a statement about poor logic WITH poor logic.

Are you suggesting that all of yoru thoughts and suspicions and seemingly non-existent evidence goes away after a hammer and the next day you drop it?

[AndyTony]

You've also defended Zwet's reasoning, and later admitted that he's playing different than you know (and in the very way I said he was - - making bs up as he goes along and acting scummy) yet haven't voted him or even FoS'd him - - nor have you yourself questioned him.

Are you looking out for him? Or do you really think he's an "idiot" who doesn't deserve your logic applied to him? Why are you not hunting in general let alone someone who is topical over the last couple pages?

Are you only planning on jumping in to defend and lurk the rest of the day out?

[AndyTony]

I admire the passion, but it seems to be firing up with Zwet which only feeds my concern.

Take your time, but know that you've had it in the past as well as the power to make time for yourself by taking that vote of Emp.
-----------------------------------

I can understand your frustration with this game, but understand my own frustration when a player like Zwet works through numerous games, building a meta on himself that will ultimately serve him (as it is now) as an immunity card

I don't think we should give into his immunity (which he's built nicely with a meta of being a shitty player)

How stupid would we feel if we ignore his current scumminess over that?

[AndyTony]

We're always open to new information, but I think the right buttons on Zwet would be L-2.

It's danger for him and he'll be under pressure to defend and clear up things - - and he won't be risked at L-1 for a quickhammer like you hate. I agree.

[AndyTony]

@Grimmy - I understand you being away on weekends and the timing of nights and lynching being sporadic, but can you please explain your activity? We would dub it as lurking, but with so few posts and even fewer relevent posts (outside of joking, that is) - there hasn't been a lot of scum hunting from you. When you find time to get back to Ceph, could you clear that up please?

[AndyTony]

I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

My feeling is that something VERY SUBSTANTIAL would have to be consistent in his scum behavior and show here (something bold, something that is in no way able to be considered town, you know? The "Umph")

I'm doing another game right now that I can't go into details with, but I've expressed that this "Meta immunity" players like Emp and Zwet exercise are like a poison - and I feel the best remedy is to play the game with no regard for meta- you look at the post, and assess it as scummy or town, not "Zwet being Zwet, oh classic Zwet" or something.
---------------
However, meta's can have the "umph", you never know - - I'll do you the courtesy of reading through as well - thank you for the links Zach.
---------------
@Grimmy - get back to us

[AndyTony]

ah - simultaneous post

[AndyTony]

I can be sensitive to that to some extent - thanks for getting back, Grimmy

[AndyTony]

Zwet -

You felt you yourself were being useful by putting aside suspicions of genuine scum (to you) for the death of a towny you found as useless as your exchange in priority?

I concur, guys - not looking good

[AndyTony]

I think we're in for a dry spell having to wait on either Grimmy to hammer or the Guiseppe (or his replacement if needed - hope not)

[AndyTony]

I'm looking Cephrir (primarily) and Zachrulez.

I'll fairly re-read all that I can, but this is something we've done before, so for me it's either a tedious recap of the same information I looked at, or me going deeper in the people I didn't look at ENOUGH (Zach and Ceph)

[AndyTony]

I think Zach might be scum with Phail.

Below is an example of Zach's poor logic

After this post, I think everyone should be voting for Emp...

Vote : Empking

The way I see it the post is Emp stating that he wasn't scum with Millar while implying that he's scum with someone else.

Zach puts a vote on Emp

Do we absolutely HAVE to lynch Emp today? I think a decent case can be made to lynching AndyTony instead. I am feeling more and more weary about him the more he posts.

He made this statement

with a vote on Emp

- contradicting himself and in the process, throwing a baseless statement against my life in the game without giving evidence. He has twice mentioned having suspicions he doesn't voice when he has them - - and he hasn't to this point cleared up why he said that to me.

Pablo didn't agree with Zach's logic at the time

zach

After this post, I think everyone should be voting for Emp...

Vote : Empking

The way I see it the post is Emp stating that he wasn't scum with Millar while implying that he's scum with someone else.

Awful, awful, awful logic capitilizing on a minimalist (and annoying) player. Complete leap of logic and a bad reason. [....]

Vote: Giuseppe
FoS: Zachrulez

After Pablo voiced a well sounded opinioin on Zach's logic...

There you go pushing that scum driven wagon again.

Your position is logically flawed, because as scum, you have every motivation to lead the town to believe that the wagon was in fact scum driven, so that they'll never call you on your distancing from townie lynches.

FOS: Pablo

That said, if you're hypothetically scum, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that your scumbuddy was on the wagon...

Zach throws what appears to be an OMGUS FoS on Pablo - - - He then makes a scum claim on him, and then in a totally seperate paragraph, tries to cover his ass by dubbing it "hypothetical" and says that a scumbuddy would be on the wagon.

To further comment on his logic. Zach is yes, still at the time of this post, on the wagon. And I couldn't agree more.

I think that Pablo is his potential partner

Frankly, I'm more inclined to agree with Zack. It did not say "If I was scum". It said,

If Millar was my scum buddy

Furthermore, the discrepancy in behavior between reacting to dejkha's scumtell versus empking's tempts me to

believe that emp and zwet are scum.

He agrees with Zach's vote on Emp over simple wordplay really, and further states suspicion on the very people that were mislynched in the order as well.

Phail has made extravegant cases based on "hypothetical" supposition that distracts at times and fills the space to keep him active, yet not always productive. He has not once to my knowledge, truly grilled Zach for any information (regardless of his earlier creeping no less). And that leads me to believe they are partners, who agreed on an order of mislynches.

To be fair - Phail also wanted to lynch Guiseppe - and Zach turned an OMGUS on Pablo in a defensive way.

All of the above are of course dead. (And I think in that order, too)

Anyway. Could be something, could be nothing.

There's still Grimmy, who's been lurking (partly due to a demanding work schedule, but none the less).

Dej, Ceph, what do you guys think? I'd like some more convo on this board!

-AA

[AndyTony]

However, in all fairness - - how many cases have been ironclad at this point?

Phail based a number of his on hypothetical scenarios and I hadn't heard you complain -- nor complain when he and Dej made several suggestions of how person A could be scumbuddies with person B depending on circumstances changing.

What I mean by this is that we have all maintained evidence on different people at different times - however the cases change when the circumstance does.

part

of my evidence on you is yes, from an earlier case - however the circumstances just make more sense to me when applied with you and Phail instead of Zwet.

I figured this was better than nothing, and certainly more than a crapshot/straw grasp, you know? I'm sure everyone has looked at the new day on the board, and yet we've got little to no posting.

I still have Grimmy and Ceph to take consideration to - - I just want everyone's opinion, Zach.

[AndyTony]

Well my last exam is Friday - has everyone been as busy as me/had your own exams, or is this game losing interest for all? - - I was really hoping to find some good posts by now!

Lets pick it up, guys!

[AndyTony]

Whoops moment? lol - - you can just

ask

, Zach - - No. I don't find a single thign scummy about Dej, I think at this point in the game he has come across very pro town to me.

And I think it's a little unfair to say "That guy isn't pointing a finger at himself! He must be guilty!" - - if you want me to do scumhunting FOR you and against myself no less - this is the wrong game for you.

I'm making what I felt were relevent suggestions and just wanted some opinions.

C:\>votecount

Running VoteCount

TM

madeofphail - 0
dejkha - 0
Cephrir - 0
AndyTony - 0
Grimmy - 0
Zachrulez - 0

Not Voting: Grimmy, Cephrir, AndyTony, Zachrulez, madeofphail, dejkha

With 6 players, it takes 4 to Lynch.

[AndyTony]

Thanks for the post! (Exams are done on my end by the by) Hopefully thins will pick up here.

- -
If anything, it seems like the Nking isn't a doc hunt so much as us being left with too many questions in the lynching process

Do we absolutely HAVE to lynch Emp today?

I think a decent case can be made to lynching AndyTony instead.

Emp is known for being either utility, or useful to scum, it seems weird he'd want him around longer so late in the wagon - a statement like that would have made sense in the beginning - when everything was suspicion and premature- seems scummy to bring it up near the end of a wagon's time, like a buy out or an attempt to save a tool/companion
----
I'd still like to hear from the lurkers/less frequent posters. Get some opinions on this.

[AndyTony]

Vote: MadeofPhail

[AndyTony]

I guess that was some sort of veiled accusation.

Not that all the previous lynches have pretty much been anything but easy and against players that seemed completely unable to defend themselves (Millar, Emp, Zwet.)

How are you and AndyTony not obvscum?

I think it's veiled because you truly don't know how to accuse us directly without evidence.

That being said. Can you give us any?

The second part of your quote makes me more uncomfortable with you. Do you know how many of the lynches you had a hand in? All of them. You were a tool in the death of all of those people, and now, in having no cases on other people, you're throwing accusations around with no case, and you're distancing yourself from the wagons you were on.

Bad cases, bad logic, distancing, all in exchange for lurking. I think I preferred your lurking.

Obviously scum? Why do you keep trying to have other people make cases against themselves to save you the work?

My vote stands

[AndyTony]

That being said. Can you give us any?

Poked me with a stick one too many times...

Are you saying this is OMGUS? Because to my list of feelings about you, that's now added

You hammered Millar while sounding unsure of yourself.

I'm always sure when voting - what you're referring to is me being HOPEFUL that it wouldn't turn out bad for town.

I never vote without expressing my thoughts and feelings - your argument is empty.

Bad cases, bad logic, distancing, all in exchange for lurking. I think I preferred your lurking.

OF COURSE YOU DID. You're one to talk about bad cases, bad logic, and distancing when you've done all of the above in past lynches with your past reasoning.

This is opinionated, no evidence. I never gave OMGUS votes, or totally unsure votes - I always expressed thoughts and gave fair chances.

Hey, Zwet and Guiseppe are scum! I'm sure of it! Oh shit they're not? It's not my fault, it's Zach's! Look! He was on every lynching bandwagon.

Not what I'm saying -- I'm pointing out that you're using the mislynches as some form of evidence on me, and in doing so, seemingly distancing yourself - I'm reminding you that you're on the wagon's too - chill out, Zach, you're slipping scum

WELL SO WERE YOU! What say you to that now? Will you try to rationalize your actions hypocritically in a desperate effort to paint me as scum, an attempt to prevent us from realizing that we should have lynched you on day 2?

Can you rephrase this with less emotional distress from being called out as potential scum? It's makes you seem more scummy and you're calling me hypocritical and scum with no evidence

Obviously scum? Why do you keep trying to have other people make cases against themselves to save you the work?

... Yeah, what do you have to say for yourself now. In light of all this work I've just done, this comment seems a bit ridiculous now doesn't it?

You haven't done work up to this point! You've given opinions with no evidence, and emotions without understanding (especially with me pointing out you were on the very wagons you try to condemn me for)

Vote: AndyTony

I may

regret not pushing for your lynch harder earlier in the game, but there's still time to correct that little mistake

.

Shortened reason:

For trying to distance away from his own hand in the lynching of the 3 townies in this game while attempting to hypocritically cast blame on me for being on the bandwagons as well.

I was saying that you distanced yourself by condemning me for the wagons I was on, and forgetting you too were on them. How is that distancing? It was more so re-attaching you, pal...
Show the hypocrisy, you can't just say it.... and it's also attached to the wagon distance idea - -

You turned my wagon comment on you and repeated it to me - that's pretty cheap, man - I didn't say I wasn't on those wagons, I reminded you that you were on them all too and should be careful with saying I'm scum - YOUR HANDS ARE JUST AS DIRTY.

Which means you need to clarify, or have a better reason for the vote on me (aside from the above admitted "OMGUS" vote earlier in my post here...

One thing I can say for you AndyTony is that there's a lot of information for me to make my cases out of. About 130 posts worth.

Then use them and make a better case

[AndyTony]

too many flaws in his argument

[AndyTony]

I think your OMGUS should be acknowledged by everyone (as in my previous post - early)

And you should clarify your case if you intend to keep that vote on me - it would otherwise seem more scummy - -

I told you not to freak on my for the mislynches because you were also on the wagons. - - - you took that point from me, perverted it, and shot it back, telling me that "I was on the wagons too!" - - As thought it were news or something. Do you understand? You're basing your case off of nothing (assuming you had more than "AndyTony was on the wagons and is hypocritical for saying I was too!" - -

I would only be hypocritical if I contradicted myself. I said no such thing to suggest I wasn't on those wagons, I reminded you that I wasn't alone and you were there too - - -

So with that cleared up - I'd suggest a new case. I'm very confident those votes won't climb considering there's no evidence on me, and I think it would be insulting the intelligence of everyone else on the board to think there could "still be some out there" even after you've looked. We've all looked at each other, we've had a lull - - you're right now suggesting that everyone is too foolish to see how scummy I am, yet even YOU have failed to prove such a thing - - where's your evidence?

Please clarify...

[AndyTony]

Also, I think Zach missed post 707. Give'er a read, Zach.

Vote: AndyTony

I may

regret not pushing for your lynch harder earlier in the game, but there's still time to correct that little mistake

.

Shortened reason:

For trying to distance away from his own hand in the lynching of the 3 townies in this game while attempting to hypocritically cast blame on me for being on the bandwagons as well.

Particularily here.

For the last time. I told Zach he was on all the wagons - I did not say I wasn't on them too - I was reminding him that his hands were just as dirty and the argument was weak - - - that isn't scummy or hypocritical.

So since that's the basis of his case.

Why does the above quote suggest he once again held back on piping up when he was suspicious. I called this out on him before and am still annoyed that he only seems to voice his will to schumhunt whenever it's convenient for him.

When it's convenient for him meanin - when people are scumhunting HIM. He's looking to me becuase I "Poked him one too many times"? So he's a sleeping animal/child? Really?

And twice he gets his back against a wall and comes out with "Well I WANTED to vote so and so, but didn't....I regret it now... **pouting** I won't make that mistake again..."

Well, your mistakes have a name, Zach - - "Scumtells".

You have lurking against you, hypocrisy, OMGUS, and a vote on a player with no solid case lol

I think my points have a stronger base than yours, friend lol
---------------

Unvote : MadeofPhail
Vote: Zachrulez

I recently made the mistake of trying to lynch the suspected partner of a scum instead of the person out of the two who seemed more of a sure thing - - It cost me the town and won't happen again.

Phail lurking at this time doesn't bode well for him either, but Zach has dug his own hole.

[AndyTony]

Also, are you threatening to call Dej scum if he doesn't support you?

Also Dejkha, are you honestly saying you don't find my case against AT interesting in the least?

I mean, even if you disagree with any points I made against you... I would have to find it strange if you didn't.

[AndyTony]

You just made everything crystal clear in a way I never could.

So you admit you're incapable of truly making me seem scummy? Of putting together evidence?

And accusing me of OMGUS is bullshit when YOU'RE the one casting a vote for me in response to my vote of you.

I may

regret not pushing for your lynch harder earlier in the game, but there's still time to correct that little mistake

.

Make up your mind - did you go after me or not? And how much would merit OMGUS? And how is it OMGUS when between two people with votes on eachother, I'm the only one with a case? I had my vote on Phail until you continued to prove yoruself scummy and incompetent, friend...

And yes, I know you're going to argue that my attacks were based in response to you, but you KNOW that's bullshit, because you KNOW I was attacking you long before you started attacking me.

It's pretty scummy to try and protect yourself by arguing my points before I do - it's kind of a signal of you calling out your own bullshit, you know?

I voted you for the very reasons I stated. You have an OMGUS FoS you threw at pablo, and OMGUS scumhunt on me that you admitted to (for poking you too much? what?) - you lurked early in the game - - you're hypocritical in voicing opinions on lynches (you were on every single wagon, yet critisized other people for voting poorly, or taking their time if the person didn't seem scummy yet etc. you play both sides of the wagon's when it's convenient to you)

The above paragraph big buddy, is my reasoning for voting you in addition to your scummy behavior that I keep pointing out, and your inability to defend a scummy vote on me. List out your reasons - - and when you do, connect them to quotes and evidence.

In short - scumhunt, already.
----------------

And you apparently missed this when you

accused me of not reading 707.

Even though I

initially missed it

in your rapid fire responses that came at the same time as Dejkha's rapid fire responses.

I DID see it

eventually though

...

Hey Scum! Hypocrite! Make up your mind! Are you going to lay out your case, or tell me I'm wrong and admit that I'm right in the very same post?

I said you missed it. You said you missed it. "AH-DUHHH!" lol
-----------------------
Dej - you called out Ceph for making statements about who should die/be lynched/ or is scum without making the vote on it. - you're saying Zach comes across more scummy - do what you have to do, but I recommend not making the mistake that I did and just go for the sure thing before suspected scum. I felt like an IDIOT when I lost the game for my last town by going for the partner over the one I thought more so - it doesn't make sense!

[AndyTony]

And Zach? This day began with me pointing at you and you flipping out. Not OMGUS on my part

[AndyTony]

Dej - be sure to unvote first*

Also, Zach - - lurking is the final point against you from me out of the heap above in my earlier posts

[AndyTony]

You got excited? Can you list your case please, so I can share this excitement lol or is it back in Neverland with Robin Williams (Yes 90's movie fans...I went there)

726?
My case is where my vote is, Zach - and you can re-read the post (I believe it's in the first three from me at the beginning of this DAY) where I lay out the case connecting you two.

You're more scum than him as of yet.

[AndyTony]

Zach is scum because he won't list his case even though he already has in his AndyTony vote... but AT makes Zach look for his case of points against Phail.

I am absolutely blown away by this.

Where did I say that and what are you on about?

Post your case already! At this point, you're a whole issue on your own - you've shown a scummier side since this started.

--------
You shouldn't have to "take a step back" - all you've done is kick scream, and point - - list your evidence clear on me, and defend yourself if you think you can.
------

Confirm Vote: Zachrulez

[AndyTony]

Shortened reason: For trying to distance away from his own hand in the lynching of the 3 townies in this game while attempting to hypocritically cast blame on me for being on the bandwagons as well.

1. I didn't try to distance myself - I reminded you that YOU were on them all - nt once did I say I wasn't (it didn't matter to me) - you're simply regurgitating what I'm sending your way - like the annoying "Are we there yet?" in the back seat of a car, you're more capable of annoying than generating your own thought

2.Oh wait...you only really had one reason....connected to me telling you that you were distancing...because you called me scum for supporting wagons that mislynched - - You pointed at me and said my hand in the wagons was scummy - I reminded you that your logic suggested you were in the same boat.

This is too complicated for you - No problem. The people that count can read it and understand.
--
That being said. Where's your evidence? Please tell me that wasn't the only post...I'm sure you're hiding evidence SOMEWHERE lol

What do you have? And does it hold it's ground next to what I've laid on you?

You're getting hung, man...

[AndyTony]

If you're going to build a case - build it with organized quotes - - most of what you've thrown in there is loose, unclear, and mixed in with your own opinions (that are further unclear)

- - All of the above quotes show jsut the millar lynching, no evidence of the whole game.

You're being hypocritical again.

It's hypocritical to open a post up with "AT doesn't care about mislynches

and then making an entire post illustrate my attitude toward NOT wanting a mislynch. - That proves you wrong, and me as a person who didn't want to mislynch millar.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
For everyone else with common sense - continue to read past what he bolded in his loose case and you'll see that I had an issue with

HAMMERING

early, not

voting

early.

At the end of the Millar trial, I felt there was enough evidence to put a vote down (hammer or not) - it was my time to make the vote, I made it - - any other comment or feeling was my instinct and personal fear of a mislynch.

this millar business has been poked at repeatedly and I have given everyone MORE than ample time and opportunity to full examine it in the past - - it's a tired theme and downright annoying - -

As I stated before: You only bring up the millar lynch when it's convenient to you - - I've called you out on it before and you're doing it again

Do you have a case on me yet? Or are you now switching and sticking to this new case about me aparently being the ONLY person to have felt unsure with our lynching process and the ONLY person to have regretted the loss of a towny.

Its thin, and it's messy - - clean it up and I'd say find better evidence then me being honest and clear with my voting methods

[AndyTony]

And why is it always more later?

You always tell us how you'll "Read some more" and do your research, yet we've clearly pointed out your FAILURE to do the reading on more than one occasion.

And you promis more to come - - is that because you HAVEN'T read further and need to find more (thus contradicting yourself) or because you need to re-read for what you can try grasping at straws with and making a case out of.

The strongest case here is on you, and instead of proving your innocence, you're falling back into habits (like pointing at other ppl desperately, and bringing up things to your convenience like I called you out before (the millar lynching) ) - - - After I called you out I made a post to cap it off telling ppl to go through it, and if they had ANYTHING to mention about it or ask me about the millar lynch in ANY way- to do so. Why bring it up now? Because you're caught and needed an out.

More to come, Zach? - - I guess it takes time for you to put these together - I can only hope one of your posts is clear, presentable, and has actual substance past "AT was hesitant in our first lynching of the game and regretted it's outcome!" lol

[AndyTony]

You're unclear, have no case, and I'm not a fan of the personal attack - life's grand.

[AndyTony]

and your point should have been made by now, at least - - I'm implying it needs time to be manufactured, not discovered...

C:\>votecount

Running VoteCount

TM

Zachrulez - 2 - AndyTony, dejkha

AndyTony - 1 - Zachrulez

madeofphail - 0
dejkha - 0
Cephrir - 0
Grimmy - 0

Not Voting: Grimmy, Cephrir, madeofphail

With 6 players, it takes 4 to Lynch.

[AndyTony]

Think what I want? You're the one that attacked my personal life, chief...
--------------
And to further my point - my cases on you took less than twenty minutes because I knew what the case was, and read enough of the thread to put it together on you.

in an hour, you couldn't give a clear peg on me - that's all I'm asking for! a solid case well laid out - -

you admit it hasn't happened yet, you acknowledge the time it takes - and all I'm saying is that it can't be a very solid case if it takes so long to frankly manufacture

[AndyTony]

I worry at times like this - - the manufacturing from thin air of cases.

Let's hear from Ceph - and hold off on hammers until everyone gets a pipe in.

Phail especially.

[AndyTony]

Phail, I've stated plainly that I think Dej is town - - and although you're quick to say you're not pleading the "too towny" argument - your rewording of it is inescapably such.

Saying you want to be mislynched is as good as a town claim - should we accept it as such?

And Grimmy and Ceph have been ignored completely, which I don't find to be like you at all, Phail - -

You've planned your death (itching to "bah" post in an attempt to claim you are town) and you've suggested I'm buddying with Dej whom I've treated just the same as you to him.

We have a solid case on Guiseppe, suspicions on you, two lurkers, Dej (who like comes across as the more town player which is undeniably found in almost ALL mafia games - - let's be fair) and myself.

You've always attempted to be concise and thorough in your investigations yet you chose to take this time as a role claiming epitath? Why?

[AndyTony]

That's as good as saying Guiseppe and Ceph are in the clear.

Are you suggesting that we let them slide?

[AndyTony]

And our position on Zach?

what makes him in the clear exactly? He hopped out of the lurking pot with Grimmy and Ceph, and has in my opinion dug himself a hole.

I feel like we're dropping it pretty easily..

[AndyTony]

I'll finish my follow-up on Ceph since he was on my priority list, but I can only express exhaustion at this point... I will never pull a Zach and try to manufacture a case out of little to nothing - which is to say I feel stretched out. I just want to know that input will be appreciated and not cast off so easily, you know?

[AndyTony]

There's a lot of unfair statements coming from you saying "BS" to my posting and making unclear connections.

I never denied having difficulty deciding the best course of action when the time came to vote - - nobody has had an easy time with it on this board.

You also need to clarify your statements about me commenting on Millar whining - I don't know how it applies to anything at ALL - and I'm certain you can pull a quote off of everyone - including yourself - commenting on Emp and Zwet and Millar babbling nonesense/wasting our time.

Millar had wasted a post whining instead of defending himself - that's scummy, it's a gambit, check the wiki...
----------
You managed to squeeze a few quotations in the posts, but you've flooded them with
Post number ..... - "personal opinion, AT bs AT bs" - - it just seems like you're flipping out over little things.
----------
What is your case?? Give the case - and point by point, can you PLEASE attach it to a concrete piece of evidence? Otherwise, I'm afraid you're distracting all of us in desperation to get another lynch off the ground.

Die scumbag?

Dej, Ceph, Phail, Grimmy - - you heard it. Zach says I'm a scumbag and should die...might as well fall into line?
------------------------------------------------
I'm going to continue articulating my case on Zach and further build my case on Ceph instead of waste my time with loose babble and baseless accusations based on things that I REQUESTED we discuss (the Millar hammer) so that THIS VERY THING WOULDN'T HAPPEN - - I tried to clear this up because voila! Scum have pulled it out of there pocket and tried to use it. Luckily, a poor job.

[AndyTony]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. If they just kill off one of the lurkers, you're left with the same situation, and one lurker to potentially mislynch and think they're the scum partener of the same ppl we're pointing at today - - we would be in lylo with less numbers on our side.

Zach - I'm only asking you to lay your case out in bullet or number form so I can better address it - - so far, you're just ranting and raving about why you're allowed to be suspicious of me - NOT why I'm scum - and there is a distinct difference - one we should all seriously acknowledge.

I would appreciate it.

First paragraph is my position on No lynch thus far... I'm not a fan. In short, we risk being in the same situation with less town on our side in the event of one of the two main lurkers dying.

[AndyTony]

hardly ever posting doesn't make them hardly less town, though, and we need the numbers - - is my logic off here?

**I've never played a game with a no lynch night and feel awkward about it - check my meta**

I'm just not sold on it

[AndyTony]

true - but if they're town, they're helping us by keeping the ratio against scum.

[AndyTony]

How much time do we have before this day ends?

Can Grimmy and Ceph please pipe up at this point? I'd like to hear from them.

Mod - please prod Grimy and Ceph

[AndyTony]

Well, as I already stated,

even if we let one townie die tonight, we are still in Lylo tommorrow, this just gets us one confirmed townie, and one less suspect. You are acting

very very

jumpy for a townie...............

Furthermore,

we are already at lylo

, if we lynch with 5ppl to choose from, its harder than 4.

We are already at lylo

, no lynching would improve our chances.

Fos: Grimmy

We are already in Lylo.

Why not use our time to be certain about who is scum and have more town numbers

Instead of killing off a town number to be certain of who NOT to lynch because they're already dead.

If tomorrow and today is Lylo - - you're asking us to vote on being in the SAME position we're in now, with one less towny to aid us.

Your first statement suggests a subversive jab at calling Grimmy scum/that he's scum if he doesn't act easy and cool about this plan instead of "jumpy"

He rose valid points as well that we should all consider.
--------------------------
If tomorrow will be the same as today (Lylo) I'd rather us work hard on confirming scum with numbers in our favor rather than hurting ourselves to go "well, we know not to pick THEM. They're dead".

----
My logic can't be THAT off - I feel really weird at the idea of such a thing under these circumstances.

[AndyTony]

The logic on your end makes sense if the person we strongly suspected was/is being weighed against someone that we are "unsure" about as you put it.

That hasn't happened yet - - what if through investigating these ppl with genuine questions, we become more certain and less doubtful of scum, and still keep our numbers up?

Questions for Ceph in the event he isn't killed in the night: hkahdfkjhdsg

Questions for me: hakjdhskgjhdkh

Questions for Grimmy: kjahd

Phail,

you, so on so forth - - what's stopping us from doing that? I still want to finish reading through every page for each person - we have time. Zach is righ about the time I have, but that's only because my exams are done and I'm waiting to be picked up on the 1st to go home - I have time to do my reading, and I'm sure we can all do the same (without manufacturing*)

I see both logics, Dej - I'm just saying one is more broad and welcoming than you think - we're not against the clock yet and shouldn't be pulling that no lynch out so soon

[AndyTony]

you say yo udon't care when we do it, yet you and phail are advocating it pretty strongly and it suggests that you don't have any intentions to continue scumhunting - - only waiting to no lynch.

[AndyTony]

If we believe something is right, we defend it. That shows conviction. I for one, do not like to be flip-floppy on issues.

In all fairness - the bulk of almost all of your messages and large posts, are large because they are in a sense - flip floppy. They have a forumla of:

---------------------------------------------------------
This is what I firmly believe in.
However, It could very well be this,
This,
Or THIS (see how diplomatic I am )

That being said, out of the three possibilities listed, I pick THIS one.
----------------------------------------------------------

You also stated to Grimmy, something to the effect of "Grimmy, you shouldn't CALL us scum if you can't CONFIRM it" - - - and then you call him a hypocrite.

Is it not fair to say you yourself are being unfair and hypocritical by telling him he can't believe you're scum without confirmation while you're TELLING us you're town without confirming it? It seems a bit one sided.
-------------------------------------------------------------
In laying out why you FoS'd Grimmy, you explained (as per the formula) other interpretations or possibilities, and therein practically laid out a defense, or a logical reasoning why to not FoS him - - however, as per the formula, you pick one that suits best at the end (based on opinion, feeling) - -

Now with hypocrisy, flip floppyness, and feelings over fact, it's just HARD for me to be sold on a no lynch night.

I understand both sides of the logic, but I can't get past feeling like we're throwing away a tool, something we use, something important.

There's always that formula of yours in those posts, I'd like to see you express an understanding of more pro's to lynching today - and HOW we can do it RIGHT - - I want us to use our time efficiently before we resort to no lynching, you know?

[AndyTony]

So it's 6 ppl total

2 scum - - 4 innocent

1 NK

2 scum - 3 innocent

1 Doc claim

2 scum - 2 innocent
----------------------------
And that kind of narrowing down all for the same situation - a Lylo with 6 unconfirmed in exchange for 2 unconfirmed.

Is that right?

[AndyTony]

I'm sold on the idea then.

Vote: No Lynch

[AndyTony]

Dejkha is widely accepted as town, yet is not dead. With the evidence of the nightkills, it is shown that

he is not still alive due to a doc protect, but that he has not been targeted.

A scum would not target another scum, so if dejkha is scum, this would explain his survival/ [/b]

The bold - - Can you explain your knowledge here? Other people dying in the night mean that they were targetted, and FOUR people were NOT targetted - -

How would you know if he was protected or not? The knowledge you're slipping here suggests a nature of scum, or you trying to make us think you're the doctor without having the responsibility/heat for claiming it (also scummy)

Everyone living right now hasn't been targetted - your logic doesn't fit with thinking he's the only one that can be scum because they don't NK their own.

You pushed it with the Doc protect comment - - Doc could have protected ANY of us on ANY of those nights - - how would you know if he was or was not? (that's where I think the intentional slip is put it to claim without saying it)

....thoughts?

--------------------
And Ceph - - it's getting annoying when you are all for an idea on what to vote and don't actually do it. VERY - FRIGGIN - SCUMMY

Quote tag closed.

[AndyTony]

MOD - - quote ends after the "[/b]" - .... I ate bugs as a child... lol

[AndyTony]

There is no reason for a NL if there is a concrete counterclaim.

I was thinking of why Phail would make an obvious doc slip and then after a pattern of defending newbiness, breaking from that, claiming town, breaking from that - with a cod claim - he's self promoting lol - but the reason I think he's done it is :
Phail wants the no lynch so he can get a kill in the night, he gets lynched the next day (being alive, thus proving he's scum and making us even with the scum, who then kill us in the night to follow as there are TWO)

And since that plan depends on the No Lynch, I reckon he wants to eliminate other people's suspicions by clearing himself with an attempt at a claim (making people friendly with the no lynch idea) Why claim? Clear himself, get the no lynch, win the game by the next night with his partner since Phail would be the sure lynch of the next day - - - why not fear a counterclaim? Because he said it himself, he wants to rattle the cage, he figures he'll get a WIN WIN situation! - Mislynch the counterclaim, or get his no lynch and win.

---------------------------------------------

Phail claims he protected Ceph twice

he was a lurker the whole game, you've accused him (with us) multiple times and have never truly thought "He must be lurking because he's town" - yet you protected him twice? Because he's high priority? You're the one that dubbed who was what priority, we didn't agree - - I think you're trying to protect your partner -

Think about it. Phail sees the no lynch isn't getting off the ground.

Scum claims - - Scum counterclaims - - One get's lynched, the other has immunity and kills us all - - for some bizarre reason, there's a No Lynch still, and we all die anyhow when no doctor dies.

Unvote

Phail, your doc slip was fake, I called you out, you claimed.

You said you protected Ceph twice - -

this makes no sense

- please clarify

I think they're both scum

[AndyTony]

why else would Ceph, the "doctor" say there's still a possibility to no lynch? Is he suggesting Phail wouldn't be scum for stealing his role? lol

[AndyTony]

With the way you re-read, and what you come back with - I don't think it's luck at all... - - in short - I can do without the threats, Zach I'm confident in my gameplay

@Phail.
You consistently drew attention to Ceph. Now, not always for scum, but you certainly made it clear he wasn't acting very town like, and you never let us forget he was lurking. You claim to have protected him twice. Please explain this poor logic seeing as in addition to the above, Ceph also failed to aid the town during this game.....Are you protecting your scumpartner? Ceph? Methinks so..
----------
@Ceph
Lurking is scum's best friend - - - Can you explain your strategy and reasons for such distant gameplay? - - A Doc's business is conducted at night, and you have been acting as such - - however, scum also work at night.

In short - Why would you not work to aid the town during the day? You play like you wait for the night. I would like you to convince me it's because you're the doc and not scum -

Because as of yet, you're both scum to me.

[AndyTony]

It's saying things like that where I get put off, Zach - - You don't have to call me town, but quit calling me scum unless you can prove it. - - - the only thing any evidence you threw at me proved was that you were able to look at things a certain way and be suspicious (my "on the fencery") - There is not one piece of solid scumtell/evidence on me, and I find it pretty interesting that in light of us having a better chance at lynching scum TONIGHT - you're wasting no time trying to plant ideas of who to lynch TOMORROW to cover your ass - - I find it suspicious - - maybe worry about one scum at a time? you have enough trouble trying to MAKE me seem scum that you failed to truly find anything.

We're in Lylo. We haven't come close to scum. We're all guilty of poor lynching, but Zach - man, you're livin true to waht everyone pointed out at least once - - your logic is balls, man...

You're once again bringing up/manufacturing evidence to your CONVENIENCE - - you brought up old, opinionated shit on me that was WAY in the past - - you only just NOW tell us you don't understand ANY of Phail's posts? Why didn't you call him out on it earlier??? Because ONCE-A-FUCKING-GAIN you don't do shit until you're scared in your little scum boots.

Phail isn't hard to read - - he has a FORMULA - - it isn't a bad one, it's just a rather BROAD formula. I have an earlier post that describes the formula, and what it reads as is - - sitting on the fence but making gut choices in voting.

I think Phail is scum.

Reasons:
--Phail sits on the fence with gut feeling votes and floods his long posts at times with repeated information and filler in an attempt to distract/confuse the town
--He uneccessarily claimed doc in the midst of us considering a NL
--He spent the days observing Ceph as potential scum, yet chose TWO nights to consider him town? No thanks... Dej I would understand.
------------------

Vote: Phail

================
Dej - - Post 678 - - Looks like this is falling into place?

Zach -

I think Zach might be scum with Phail.

Below is an example of Zach's poor logic

After this post, I think everyone should be voting for Emp...

Vote : Empking

The way I see it the post is Emp stating that he wasn't scum with Millar while implying that he's scum with someone else.

Zach puts a vote on Emp

Do we absolutely HAVE to lynch Emp today? I think a decent case can be made to lynching AndyTony instead. I am feeling more and more weary about him the more he posts.

He made this statement

with a vote on Emp

- contradicting himself and in the process, throwing a baseless statement against my life in the game without giving evidence. He has twice mentioned having suspicions he doesn't voice when he has them - - and he hasn't to this point cleared up why he said that to me.

Pablo didn't agree with Zach's logic at the time

zach

After this post, I think everyone should be voting for Emp...

Vote : Empking

The way I see it the post is Emp stating that he wasn't scum with Millar while implying that he's scum with someone else.

Awful, awful, awful logic capitilizing on a minimalist (and annoying) player. Complete leap of logic and a bad reason. [....]

Vote: Giuseppe
FoS: Zachrulez

After Pablo voiced a well sounded opinioin on Zach's logic...

There you go pushing that scum driven wagon again.

Your position is logically flawed, because as scum, you have every motivation to lead the town to believe that the wagon was in fact scum driven, so that they'll never call you on your distancing from townie lynches.

FOS: Pablo

That said, if you're hypothetically scum, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that your scumbuddy was on the wagon...

Zach throws what appears to be an OMGUS FoS on Pablo - - - He then makes a scum claim on him, and then in a totally seperate paragraph, tries to cover his ass by dubbing it "hypothetical" and says that a scumbuddy would be on the wagon.

To further comment on his logic. Zach is yes, still at the time of this post, on the wagon. And I couldn't agree more.

I think that Pablo is his potential partner

Frankly, I'm more inclined to agree with Zack. It did not say "If I was scum". It said,

If Millar was my scum buddy

Furthermore, the discrepancy in behavior between reacting to dejkha's scumtell versus empking's tempts me to

believe that emp and zwet are scum.

He agrees with Zach's vote on Emp over simple wordplay really, and further states suspicion on the very people that were mislynched in the order as well.

Phail has made extravegant cases based on "hypothetical" supposition that distracts at times and fills the space to keep him active, yet not always productive. He has not once to my knowledge, truly grilled Zach for any information (regardless of his earlier creeping no less). And that leads me to believe they are partners, who agreed on an order of mislynches.

To be fair - Phail also wanted to lynch Guiseppe - and Zach turned an OMGUS on Pablo in a defensive way.

All of the above are of course dead. (And I think in that order, too)

Anyway. Could be something, could be nothing.

There's still Grimmy, who's been lurking (partly due to a demanding work schedule, but none the less).

Dej, Ceph, what do you guys think? I'd like some more convo on this board!

-AA

I believe this case FULLY at this point. I think that Phail has been appropriately called out, and that you're the scumpartner, Zach.

You'll have to excuse us if we didn't invest much thought into Millar's line of thought when it came to yelling out who he thought was doc only a handful of posts into day1!!! lol

You're getting nervous and desperate to secure yourself for tomorrow when we're done lynching Phail.

Phail - well played.
Zach - I think the jig is up!

Dej - - It makes sense and was spotted early on (not made up of old forgotten things that are twisted, opinionated, or opportunistic....like Zach's cases...)

Confirm Vote: MadeOfPhail

Dej, if I get killed tonight - know my vote would have gone to Zach

[AndyTony]

@Zach -
Millar wasn't the most sensible! he dug a hole for himself, he called Ceph the doc with NO indication and NO evidence - it just seems weird that you feverishly want to lock him in as scumpartner to Phail just to perhaps secure yourself - - you're jumping the gun, and it's still rather weak -

By the 5th page of this board, Millar dug himself a hole, called a player a bitch, voted for himself, made the statement "I am scum", encouraged us to lynch him, and two pages later, made a random statement about Ceph being the doc.

Your logic is as wild as Millar's playstyle, and I'm disheartened to take much of what you say into account as a result.
-----------------
@Dej
I know you were waiting for Ceph (while deciding between him and Zach) - - but there's going to be a point where you need to commit to believing Ceph's counterclaim or not (and knowing where that leaves him)

And his research is flawed - - I am honest when I say this (And Zach, I mean this) I really admired the come back - - hopping out of the lurker category and truly trying to aid the town (even more so than Phail in ways, given his desire for fact over analysis with gut feelings) but I was disheartened to find that all those GOOD INTENTIONS weren't met with results.

Everything he has is dead, opportunistic, and opinionated - - he pulled nothing concrete on me, and you know full well that I spent many a headache clearing up the dispute over my voting pattern day1 AND gave ample time and a master post telling people to pipe up or ask me about it - - - Zach, only brought it up when he was against the wall. - - Phail writes in that formula I pointed out, Zach only mentions that it's "impossible to read" and confusing when it's convenient once again - - when he needs to distance himself and further incriminate Phail - - Why didn't Zach ask for clarification every time Phail was confusing or unclear?
--------------

[AndyTony]

To clarify* * *

Zach - first paragraph - - I'm suggesting you're trying to lock down A scumpartner to Phail - not Ceph - - the beef I have is your investment in Millar and his calling out of him being doc

[AndyTony]

that paragraph is about Phail, I believe - and Phail has hardly flown under the radar.

And the clarification was against your advocacy on Millar calling Ceph doc - you brought it up more than once

And my issue is you insisting I'm scum but not proving it past the weak standards in the above quote. Why are you eagerly trying to protect suspicion of yourself for tomorrow/anyone for that matter by trying to pin an idea of a second scum in out heads now? Are you nervous? Why me? Can you clarify PAST what I list above? Because I've been more than active, and the millar vote isn't going to hold itself.

[AndyTony]

I think you're terrified about the hunt for scum 2 tomorrow

[AndyTony]

I doubt it. With the direction this game has gone, logic seems to have gone out the window a long time ago. But basically what it comes down to is this. You find me scummy for listening to you guys and caving to just about all the lynches you want. Now with the game on the line I want to think for myself, that's scummy? I certainly trust myself more in lylo then a bunch of people who could be scum...

In this quote, you agree with me that logic has been absent, and you admit to not contributing to the town and only following lynches.

In light of that - I would like you to re-evaluate how you felt about my Millar lynch - - I wanted to be calculated and responsible, and think for myself, Zach, I assure you - and from what you're saying, you share that same desire.

How is it to my convenience? I saw what I saw. Drew the conclusion that I drew, and ended up thinking you were scum. How exactly is that manufacturing anything? I am pointing out my interpretation of what is there. That is how mafia is played.

YES - but what Im saying is that your interpretation is easily weighed next to the polar opposite - - you looked at a subject and tried to see scum, like a firefighter trying to see arson - - that's how things get manufactured - - If you tried to look at the same subjects for town qualities, it is fair to say you can see it - - that's my point - - Yes, mafia is played with sharing, but I strongly advice sharing more concrete evidence (or better said, MORE SO concrete than what you had)

How do we know that you didn't coordinate the death of Pablo Molinero on night 2 with Phail in order to implicate me the next day as you so extravagantly did. WHY WAIT UNTIL DAY 3 TO START POINTING THAT SHIT OUT?

There's no need to get heated - - I did

not

pull that card on you, I believe I was suspecting guiseppe at that time.

Find me an appropriate quote to support that, please - I believe it was Phail that did this.

You're the most ridiculous person I've ever played mafia with in my life. You attack me for not calling Phail out sooner, cause you'd apparently prefer that over me calling YOU out. Yet you don't call me out immediately on day 2 when I argue with Pablo. How is this not the biggest hypocritical turd ever?

You're coming across as desperate and scared again - - In all fairness, you've been most hypocritical (I laid a couple pieces of interest in the quotes of my case on you) and what is most hypocritical is calling me a fence sitter and bad logic voter before admitting to following wagons and only thinking for yourself in Lylo - - that's terrible!!!! What logic can be worse than going days and deaths in our town without THINKING?

Second point - - I didn't tell you to attack Phail sooner, I inquired as to why you once again saved a suspicion for later in regards to EVIDENCE - - you said you couldn't understand any of his posts - - why not bring it up at the time of posting? why only DISTANCE yourself when he's being readied for the chopping block? Scum...

By the way, scum don't kill the people they think they can lynch

Is that why you're after me right now? Should I feel safe?

I think you're terrified about the hunt for scum 2 tomorrow

And I would have no reason to be if I was the leading candidate for a lylo lynch as town?

Yeah, I know this is supposed to mean that I'm afraid of the hunt for scum 2 because I am scum, but I couldn't resist.

[AndyTony]

Ah - Votes in.

Let's see how tomorrow unfolds, then guys -

If I die, it really was awesome playing with you all - my favorite game yet

[AndyTony]

Lots of fun, guys! - hope to play with you all again!!

[AndyTony]

I forgot to tell you guys!!!

I almost lost my shit lol - - I had typed out this HUUUUUGGE post with evidence and organized quotes defending why

I

I was the doc - - before clicking submit, I saved the post and refreshed the page - - I would have hit send within the same minute as Ceph and we'd have both countered at the same time lmao

I killed the lurkers, and tried to mislynch poor players - - Ceph and I discussed lynching one another to gain immunity (that ended when I turned on Zach - - ps, I'm sorry for annoying you) - - This was my first scum role!

[AndyTony]

I would have used the blow up as an act of insecurity and turned it around lol

You, Dej, and others, I do look forward to meeting on these boards again

[AndyTony]

lol

without a counterclaim, I was actually going to keep you alive, Grimmy - - I was going to kill Zach in the night and suggest that Phail and you were scum.

I assumed Phail would protect you in the night (or a lurker*)