Mini 765 - Welcome to Hambargarville GAME OVER!!

[Jase]

/confirm

[Jase]

vote: burfey

for being a slow typer.

[Jase]

Unvote

OMGUS Vote: IdiotKing

for not coming up with a fake excuse!

[Jase]

I'd have to agree with IK. I don't HATE RVS, but I do wish there was way we could bypass all the silly random crap. Also since abstaining from RVS would lead to suspicions all players are going to "go with the flow".

Unvote

Vote: X

stating that you don't like RVS and would for-go it if you reasonably could is not a scum tell.

[Jase]

I am getting extremely annoyed that Wall-E isn't posting. It screams scum...yet, I keep thinking that as an experienced player, he would know better and not do that. (I had a similar situation in the last game I was in...we lynched an inactive IC townie...) I've been going over this in my head (is he more or less likely to be lurking cuz he's scum if he's an IC?) but I think I'm getting to a WIFOM situation. So lets throw a little more fuel on the fire and...

vote: Wall-e

Also...we haven't heard from Jase or Noob in the past 2 days. I'd like to hear what you two have to say on the situation, and Jase...I'm still waiting for a response to my question...

I'm still here I'll post my thoughts later.

Also what question are you referring to? I've been watching but I don't remember.

[Jase]

The vote was because he was the focus of my suspicion. Also I changed my vote from a random one so it isn't as though I was trying to jump off a dead wagon or something like that.

I think that the discussion about wall-e is pointless until he's prodded. If he IS in fact lurking that might merit some discussion, but I'm beginning to suspect that he just flaked.

I'm also not liking the way Cubarey is looking. Though I did find IKs response a bit over-defensive it seems like Cub is trying to make it seem like much more than that. As a matter of fact...he contradicts himself saying that Xs question was not serious but meant to see how IK would react, then later he says that Xs remark was a simple request for information, and any townie would have taken it as such.

Seeing this now I'll change my vote once more.

Unvote

Vote: CUBAREY

[Jase]

Oh, I am not stopping looking at others and good point about the VT thing as far as it goes. It is the fact that the very first thing he does is claim, wether VT, Doc, Cop or whatever, that just throws up flags. There is really nothing much to go on when deciding the first lynch other than odd behavior. Claiming simply because a few people have voted for you and SAID the only reason they were voting for you is because you have not been participating is decidely odd.

As for other things I am looking at and would like people to discuss.

How about Cubarey? Only 3 posts so far. I would like to hear more from him.

(My current scum pick due to the way he contradicted himself)

Or Noob, who hasn't posted in 4 days.

(We'll have to see when he's prodded I think, it'd be a waste of time to discuss his absence if he just gets replaced)

Or X, who seems to be jumping around a bit.

(I wouldn't describe X as "jumping around" he hasn't really committed to anything enough yet)

Or back to Idiotking who just seemed so defensive.

(I don't think he was all that over defensive, it's only natural to put down any points agains yourself as thouroughly as you can)

There is just so little to go on I feel like it best to get everyone involved until something weird happens and those are really the only things that stand out to me right now.

[Jase]

wow, this is an insane amount of activity compared to what I'm used to
sorry I haven't posted in a while, I have been a bit busy.
Right now I think all the votes going around are a bit superficial, all based on small things that may or may not mean anything...,
Wall-E's case is the only one that I find could lead to something atm, I find all the other cases a bit shallow based.

Wall-E's case:

I don't think the claim was any kind of tell, but do find the I was on the page but I didn't confirm a bit weird.

You think that the case agains Wall-E has the most merit...? I disagree wholeheartedly. In my opinion the only substantial thing we've seen has been from cubarey.

[Jase]

Sorry everyone, I've missed a lot of discussion over the weekend, but I'm here now and here are my thoughts.

My list of suspects:
qwints-mildly scummy, needs to post more, seems to be avoiding taking sides.
Ojanen-Neutral, she's kinda scum hunting but isn't going very deep with her questioning.
Wall-E-mildly scummy, I think the "didn't push the watch topic button" thing should be dropped as it's not very concrete, his lack of scum hunting and early claim however do throw up some flags.
CUBAREY-Very scummy, for his contradiction early on, tunnel vision on IK, he has ignored my accusations of him (I'd like to hear what he has to say in his defense, as well as what other people think of my suspicions of him).
X-mildly town, while he may have jumped around a bit It doesn't seem to be in a "scum searching for wagon" kind of way, is scum hunting.
YellowBunny-mildly town, had on a fair amount of scum hunting without doing much to make me think she could be scum.
burfy-scummy, not much in the way of scum hunting, I don't like the way he tried to draw a connection between X(?) and Wall-E before Wall-E had even started participating.
Kreriov-mildly town, seems to be doing some information gathering.
IdiotKing-Neutral, just don't see much to suggest he's scum, I think he was caught up a bit with defending himself and had forgone scum hunting early on.
Lleu-Neutral, hasn't posted much, think he may have flaked.
W1N-Neutral, not much to say, I agree with him on his OMGUS musings, I largely disagree with his suspects.

[Jase]

For me, I remain focused on Cubarey. Looking at his posting pattern, I find it a bit suspicious. Just enough posting to not be prodded and just enough content to show he is reading the thread. No real reason for his vote on X. Given what was happening at the time and some of the criticism of X, it seems like a really easy vote to just sort of slide in there.

He has also neglected to address any accusations against him. I'd double vote him if I could. Maybe that would get him to defend himself...

[Jase]

The vote was because he was the focus of my suspicion. Also I changed my vote from a random one so it isn't as though I was trying to jump off a dead wagon or something like that.

I think that the discussion about wall-e is pointless until he's prodded. If he IS in fact lurking that might merit some discussion, but I'm beginning to suspect that he just flaked.

I'm also not liking the way Cubarey is looking. Though I did find IKs response a bit over-defensive it seems like Cub is trying to make it seem like much more than that. As a matter of fact...he contradicts himself saying that Xs question was not serious but meant to see how IK would react, then later he says that Xs remark was a simple request for information, and any townie would have taken it as such.

Seeing this now I'll change my vote once more.

Unvote

Vote: CUBAREY

I'd like you to address this.

[Jase]

@Cubarey: You still haven't explained why what you said is not a contradiction, as you've only addressed the first part of your contradiction. Also Krers' last post just added a few strong points to my own case against you.

[Jase]

I'm starting to get some suspicions of YB. At times it's seemed like she was kind of stretching some of the points against Wall-E. On the other hand I'm now more suspicious of Wall-E...before I didn't think there was much merit to the case against him, but his vote for IK struck me as susbicious, and now with his recent apology/explanation I'm having a very difficult time coming up with a clear read on him now.

[Jase]

sorry i havent been postin but im havin problems with my browser crashing every minute then refusing to work i' havin a friend look at it soon

[Jase]

I've got my connection fixed now.

I'm really hoping Cubey comes back, if the bottom falls out of my case, I don't find the case against Wall-E all that compelling (I'm not sure why he's so close to being lynched).

[Jase]

Alrighty, somebody posted something along the lines of "It isn't prudent to hold the game for one person". I'm going to have to agree, it's been too long, and I'm not going to wait for cub any longer.

Unvote

and vote my next best guess

Vote: Wall-E

[Jase]

I think you just explained my reasoning in your own post Razz. Since it wouldn't make sense for him to be too scummy to be scum, then he would go for it in the hopes that others would think he was too scummy to be scum.

Hehe...well, okay. Not so sure I agree with you, but I can accept that answer.

Here is another question for you. <offers Hero a chair and a martini> Let's stop fighting for a minute, and for the duration of this post and your answer to it, assume that you're town and I'm town. My question is...what do you make of the lack of participation from a lot of people? Despite the spike in posting, there are still quite a few people who are being very very quiet. Earlier, when Wall-e and I were butting heads (prior to your entrance) I thought that it was odd that these same people were being quiet. What do you make of this? I am starting to get this nagging worry that there is some scum sitting out there in that group, quietly laughing you, me, Wall-e and IK as we duke it out. So do you think that there has been too much fixation on Wall-e, and to a lesser extent, Cubarey and IK? Should we start looking under these other rocks? Or will that just introduce noise into this discussion?

I haven't read any further than this post so far, but I'd like to point this out because in the only game I've finished as scum, I was as quiet as I could reasonably be and won.

[Jase]

EBWOP: So yes I think it would be a good idea to pressure those who aren't participating as much. (including myself)

[Jase]

Now then,

Yay, wb Jase!

Btw, I'm not sure how far you are in catching up, but I FOSed you cuz I thought Hero's suspicions looked a lot like your suspicions (see his large post).

So what do you think of that? I am completely off base? Do you think he is mimicking your views for some reason? Is it a coincidence?

And aside from that, what are your impressions of Hero? And do they mesh w/your previous thoughts on Noob?

FoSing me doesn't make much sense because my suspicions are guaranteed to be my own, and I'm not sure if he is mimicking me.

As for hero I'm not liking him very much right now, not sure why, I've got a lot to process with 3? new pages, but I'm getting bad vibes. Also I don't see how my thoughts on him and noob could mesh, it isn't as though he has picked up where noob left of with the same train of thought and strategy.

The person who has stuck out the most to me in the last few pages has been IK. I'd appreciate it if he would post a point by point summary of his case against Wall-E, as all that has stuck with me is that he claims that Wall-E isn't answering questions.

[Jase]

EBWOP: So yes I think it would be a good idea to pressure those who aren't participating as much. (including myself)

Why the hell would you suggest we pressure you? If you're town, and you know you're town, you suggested we fucking waste our time.

I find your hostility frightening.

Anyways, there are a couple of reasons that I suggest you pressure me.

One, YOU SHOULD, it would be unwise to ignore my lurking just because I suggested you pressure lurkers.

Two, I wanted to make sure nobody called my "hypocrit"

Three, I'm not lurking intentionally and I think some pressure on myself would certainly draw me into the coversation.

P.S. Sorry for the WIFOM. (I may have poisoned all of the wine .)

[Jase]

Also I forgot to

unvote

I don't really think Wall-E is scum especially considering his post 483.

[Jase]

First, outline your own perspective of the events in the thread in such a way as to explain away my points against you. When you've done that, find every question you claim I have not answered and put them into a single post to back your claim that I have not been answering questions to a degree deserving of a vote. When you've done that, I'll know you deserve what you've been screaming for for the last three pages and I will answer every single one of said questions (presuming none of them are rhetorical or unhelpful in other ways, such as someone asking me who I think looks most town).

Do you think you're in the position to barter right now? You answer the questions that YB and I have been badgering you about first.

While I think he should answer those questions regaurdless, I like what he's asking, it'll be good for town.

[Jase]

IK-Would you please keep the rage level in your posts to a minimum, I'm having a hard enough time keeping up as is without having to sift through that.

[Jase]

Jase, here's a question for you. What are your opinions on everything that's happened since page 10 or so? In detail.

At-a-glance...I think there's been a lot of question, acusations, etc. that have been ignored, and not just by Wall-E. Though I can't help but wonder why you're asking me this now.

[Jase]

Jase, here's a question for you. What are your opinions on everything that's happened since page 10 or so? In detail.

At-a-glance...I think there's been a lot of question, acusations, etc. that have been ignored, and not just by Wall-E. Though I can't help but wonder why you're asking me this now.

Well, you asked us to pressure you. And in detail.

Sure...I couldn't help but notice, though, that you asked me to do a bunch of work just after I suggested that you systematically refute wall-es case...

[Jase]

Last post of the night for me. I'll try and post something in depth-ish tomorrow.

Also I think there's more to do today, and should only move forward with a lynch when nobody has anything new to add, or if there is a deadline.

[Jase]

I'm sick today and don't really feel up to posting much. However I've noticed that a lot of people don't actually point out why a point against them is wrong when dismissing it. It would be great if we could change that.

[Jase]

It may just be impatience but hero seems to be trying to rush the lynch, and I do not like it.

@Sajin:
Would you kindly state your thoughts of YB.

@qwints:
I'd appreciate it if you'd tell us what you think of kreriov.

[Jase]

It may just be impatience but hero seems to be trying to rush the lynch, and I do not like it.

This is utter BS. I'm not even voting for someone right now.

So you have not been advocating that we end the day?

[Jase]

Well it HAS been 24 pages. I think I can understand why Hero's impatient.


Jase, what's your (detailed) opinion my most recent arguments with Wall-E?

I think it's a waste. You say you've seen other people fake autism and such in other games, but how are we to know this? How do we know you didn't? It's all specualtion. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do but it's seeming a bit "off" to me.

[Jase]

Why would you want to cut off discussion like that Hero?

Hey guess what? Discussion usually picks right back up on Day 2, only difference is we have a shitload more to go on.

If you haven't been advocating an end to the day what am I meant to make of this?

[Jase]

If you haven't been advocating an end to the day what am I meant to make of this?

Me pointing out that ending the day isn't as bad as they were making it seem?

I never tried persuading people that ending the day is the way to go though. =/

You said you were willing to place a hammer and made a few posts suggesting that it would be fine to just go to day two. You may not have directly suggested it but you don't neccesarily have to.

[Jase]

I think it's a waste. You say you've seen other people fake autism and such in other games, but how are we to know this? How do we know you didn't? It's all specualtion. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do but it's seeming a bit "off" to me.

Not concerning the AS, I mean. Concerning the rest. You're still not talking as much as you should, and I want your input on what's going on. You only seem to post in extremely short, 1-2 line posts that are lacking substance and any real... umph, for lack of a better term. They're weak posts. I want you to speak up and actually join the discussion as an active player.

I need to know specifically what argument you're reffering to then. I only looked at your posts between my post yesterday and the most recent ones.

[Jase]

Jase, I would like your opinions of 3 people. Any three people, as long as they're detailed.

I'll do that then, but I'm having a difficult we, so it'll come tomorrow at the earliest.

Also I'm starting to wonder about sajin and hero. Once hero was called out on it, sajin almost seems to have attempted to reinforce hero. I think most will agree that there is still plenty to discuss today and that it would be good to maximize what we get today, as much of our scum hunting in the following days will be based on D1 information.

[Jase]

EBWOP: That should be "difficult week".

[Jase]

@qwints-I asked you for your opinion on krer for the purpose of trying to draw you into the game more, and I chose him specificaly because there wasn't much suspicion of him so you could not just parot the case of another.

Sajin, on the other hand, seems to have ignored my request completely. I'm really starting to worry about him.

[Jase]

@Sajin-I asked you to give your opinion on YB, I believe.

As for the explanation you wanted, I was referring to your post 610, where you seem to say that having more information today would be good for scum...?

[Jase]

@Sajin-This is the explanation to your post 624.

As for the explanation you wanted, I was referring to your post 610, where you seem to say that having more information today would be good for scum...?

[Jase]

Welcome looker. If you could do your best to answer for your predecessor, I'd appreciate it.

post 682-Scum may not appear connected.

@Wall-E-I'm not seeing the slip you're referring to.

[Jase]

People who said Wall-E is not scummy[/u]

Jase
Post 488

Also I forgot to

unvote

I don't really think Wall-E is scum especially considering his post 483.

If anyone objects to my classification of them, please let me know.

Jase, given your lone objector status, I want a case from you on who you think we should lynch instead of Wall-E. Re-reading your posts in iso, you seem to have been active lurking this past month.

I didn't say he was not scummy, just that I didn't think he was scum. Depending on what happens during discussion, I could see a hero, sajin, or possibly looker lynch today as well.

[Jase]

Also, I, having read my own posts in iso, do not think I've been active lurking. Nearly everything I've posted has had some substance to it. Unless "active lurking" means something different to you than it does to me.

[Jase]

@Jase- Thanks for question dodging yet again.

fos:Jase

Also, blanket baseless accusations in response to some pressure. Lets see your cases on looker hero and I as well as the answer to my question. I love how you claimed your posts have subsistence when your last 2 you posted have little to none. I think that qualifies for active lurking.

You say I make blanket accusations under pressure, but why would I be feeling pressured exactly?

My case against looker is well documented, as it is the same as my case against Cubarey. As for you and hero, I could go back and outline the points that I have against you.

You say my last 2 post have little or no substance, not only do I disagree, but how do 2 posts constitute "active lurking". As a matter of fact...If you could go ahead and give me your definition of "substance", and "active lurking" without looking at the wiki and in your own words, I'd certainly appreciate it.

I've given you an explanation, if you aren't satisfied with it you'd do well to be more specific. I pointed out where I think you "advocate" an end to the day, what more did you expect from me? There is still plenty to discuss and I think it's fairly obvious that a premature end to the day harms town.

[Jase]

Jase's play is starting to bother me. Specifically this claim he has made:

Iso 41

My case against looker is well documented, as it is the same as my case against Cubarey. As for you and hero, I could go back and outline the points that I have against you.

(This was posted with the intent to go back and put up a proper case)

I don't like when people say they "could" do something as a support for an argument but then don't follow through. So here's my summary of Jase's case:

Looker:

Iso 38

Welcome looker. If you could do your best to answer for your predecessor, I'd appreciate it.

Note that Jase has not actually said anything about looker (of course, looker hasn't said much.)

(Looker replaces cubarey and so inherits my suspicions)

Cubarey:
Iso 10 (the prima facia case)

I'm also not liking the way Cubarey is looking. Though I did find IKs response a bit over-defensive it seems like Cub is trying to make it seem like much more than that. As a matter of fact...he contradicts himself saying that Xs question was not serious but meant to see how IK would react, then later he says that Xs remark was a simple request for information, and any townie would have taken it as such.

This case referenced these two comments

Hmm, X put Idiotking in a Catch 22 to see if he would squirm. Idiotking immediately says X is trying to get him in trouble on baseless claims instead of seeing the point was to see his reaction.

[X] was not accusing [IK] he was asking for [IK] to explain [his] vote. Moreover, such a question is not a witchhunt its a request for information. Any innocent player would have viewed it as such"

Jase followed up on this case by saying that Cubarey was his "current scum pick due to the way he contradicted himself" in Iso 6. He further attacked him in Iso 8

CUBAREY-Very scummy, for his contradiction early on, tunnel vision on IK, he has ignored my accusations of him

He reiterates Cubarey's failure to defend himself in Iso 9 and dismisses an attempted response from cub in Iso 10 as "only addressing the first part of [his] contradiction."

The case against Cubarey thus has three prongs:
1)The early contradiction
2)A failure to adequately respond when called on his contradiction
3)Tunneling on Idiot King.

Cubarey's only defense is in post 179 which comes between Jase's 9 and 10.

I don't agree that this case has been "well documented." Jase pointed out one inconsistency and dismissed Cub's defense without much elaboration.

(What was I meant to elaborate on? It seems a straightforward "You haven't answered the whole question" would suffice.)

It does, however, deserve some attention from looker.

Hero

Jase first mentions hero in iso post 18 after hero replace W1noob.

As for hero I'm not liking him very much right now, not sure why, I've got a lot to process with 3? new pages, but I'm getting bad vibes. Also I don't see how my thoughts on him and noob could mesh, it isn't as though he has picked up where noob left of with the same train of thought and strategy.

He continued in iso 19

Why the hell would you suggest we pressure you? If you're town, and you know you're town, you suggested we fucking waste our time.

I find your hostility frightening.
[Jase's reasoning for suggesting he should be pressured]

(My reasoning had nothing to do with that, I'm reasonably certain that I gave real reasoning in the same post.)

Then in iso 27

It may just be impatience but hero seems to be trying to rush the lynch, and I do not like it.

which he backed up with a couple of hero quotes "Discussion usually picks right back up on Day 2" and "ending the day isn't as bad as they make it seem" over his next couple of posts. After which he has pretty much dropped the case except for throwing in hero's name as a possible lynch.

(This is true, but I would attribute that to my low participation level.)

So Jase's case against hero:
1) Bad Vibes
2) Frighteningly hostile
3) Impatient

I find it strange that hero is the first name Jase mentions for a lynch based on the paucity of his case against him. Especially considering that he also accused Saijin of trying to end the day too soon.

(The names I mentioned were in no particular order, and I plan to get my shit together in making a real live case, though I have been planning that for a while...:\)

Two requests:
Jase, please correct any errors or omissions you see in my summary and then outline the points you've made against Saijin.

Looker,
Thanks for replacing in. Make some observations about the game once you've finished reading. I'd appreciate if you'd try and explain Cub's "contradiction." Also, who do you think is the best candidate for a lynch today?

Expect me to outline my case against hero and sajin by tonight.

[Jase]

Also I plan to elaborate on my bad vibes, I was being sarcastic when I said "I find your hostility frightening" and "impatient" is not what I believe him to be. Your representation of my case is rather skewed, as none of what you've outlined will make up any part of MY case.