Open 131 - Nightless Vanilla (Over) before 767

[White Castle]

/confirm

[White Castle]

vote hewitt

You're aware of policy lynching Empking, yet didn't vote (for empking or anyone else).

So farside & hewitt, what's the deal with policy lylnching Empking? I was only in one other game with him and I was NK'd night 1.

[White Castle]

I shouldn't see more than one post from anyone in the confirmation stage.

I am looking for a replacement for bookworm513.

After a replacement is found and confirmed, I will not give the Mafia any more time to discuss. However, if the slot is a Mafia slot, the player will be given the link to the QuickTopic thread and may read any previous discussion.

Please do not use the above statement to metagame. Thanks.

So what happens if I use it to metagame?

Jazzmyn, thanks for replacing. Hopefully you'll be the only replacement this game.

[White Castle]

We've got our work cut out for us.

By my calculations (which assume all lynches are random), we'll win 1/3 of the time and the scum 2/3 of the time. Had the game started with 9 town and 3 scum it would have been 50/50.

[White Castle]

Since we're looking at the wiki, lynching empking may also fall under utility lynch

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... lity_Lynch

[White Castle]

Great a nightless with a billion scum...

vote white castel

OMGUS aside, this reminds me of something I read here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... dard_Tells

At the bottom of the page is the "Well, That Sucks" Tell.

You signed up for this game knowing the ratio of town to scum, and that it was nightless.

unvote, vote Lowell

[White Castle]

No, I didn't know what I was signing up for. I went to the queue and wrote "/in" like most people do.

This is a marginal, and wrong, tell. Try harder.

You aren't giving us much to work with here while you're at L-3. A good, pro-town townie would be scumhunting, not telling the other townies to "try harder".

[White Castle]

The two who haven't checked in since the game started:

Wall-E - posted five times yesterday, 3/30, in other threads. Does anyone have meta on him? Does he lurk?

skitzer - hasn't posted 3/28, before the game started.

[White Castle]

I went back and checked how you signed up. You signed up as you said.

/in for anything

No, I didn't know what I was signing up for. I went to the queue and wrote "/in" like most people do.

This is a marginal, and wrong, tell. Try harder.

However, you have presented no evidence to support your claim that “most people just write /in” I am not willing to take anyone's supposition as fact.

I disagree that this tell is “marginal and wrong.” In the context of what you wrote, marginal means “barely within a lower standard or limit of quality”. This tell works some of the time, so I agree that it is marginal. However, to make a blanket statement that this tell is wrong strikes me as scummy. The only way your statement makes sense is if you applied it to your specific situation, but the context indicates you are attacking the tell itself and not applying it to your situation.

[White Castle]

The parts pertinent to me are:

Ugh, White Castle, your constant linkage to the Wiki makes me feel weird about you.

and...White Castle in Post 44: Your vote is OMGUS.

White Castle in Post 51: Can you tell me what information Lowell could give to possibly defend himself on Page 3?

A question for White Castle: You started the bandwagon on Lowell. Can you provide any more to your case other than the tell you found on the Wiki?

Also, to the moderator,

I will be V/LA from April 1st-6th

The wiki is there as a learning tool. Why not use it? Besides, I only used it twice in 8 game posts and that's hardly "constant". There are also several of us in this game that haven't been playing long based on joined date.

Post 51 was Lowell, not me. Your question strikes me as anti-town because an answer leads down a dark path. Suppose I answer "Lowell could have said X". In Lowell's next post he says X. I could keep my vote on him or unvote. I think either option looks bad. (Either I let him off too easy or I didn't keep my word). All that said, it is hard to come up with cases and defend them early in the game.

Next point about adding to the case other than the wiki. By your post in 61, I was already trying to build on the case. I've already said the tell isn't a sure thing.

I'd like to point out that as of your post, Lowell was L-2 and my vote was the first vote. I'm wondering why you didn't apply more pressure to the other 4 voters. You only said something about millar (which was deserved by the way - I'm going to deal with that soon.)

Finally, since you're V/LA and won't be back until April 7th, I wish you had posted more in this game. It's possible we could be in day 2 with only one game post from you.

[White Castle]

Hm the speed of the bandwagon was pretty quick, I'm not convinced Adam Smith or Jazzmyn really paid attention to what they were doing. Seems more to me like they were just like oh cool a bandwagon let's jump on!

I agree with this. Normally I'm not opposed to D1 quick wagons, but the problem with nightless is that the first lynch is ESSENTIAL. If you get scum on D1 winning is easy. If you lynch town winning becomes nearly impossible.

Actually with random lynches the odds of a town win are at 33% now, and a mislynch D1 reduces the chance to 27%, which I contend is not "nearly impossible".

[White Castle]

Vote: Lowell

unvote, vote millar

For hoping on a bandwagon and giving no reason. This was your only other game post before the millar vote:

Vote" Wall-e

Friggin Android

[White Castle]

I actually just don't like nightless, that's all it means. I think too much of the important action happens right at the top (D1) rather than as the game develops.

Despite his blatant hopping, I don't actually think Wall-E is scum. I think millar is a good wagon, though. I have him in another game and it's like two completely different people (yeah, that was a double-simultaneous-meta, for those keeping score).

fos millar

also,

fos farside

. Just an idea.

Can you post a link to the other game?

[White Castle]

Post 51 was Lowell, not me. Your question strikes me as anti-town because an answer leads down a dark path. Suppose I answer "Lowell could have said X". In Lowell's next post he says X. I could keep my vote on him or unvote. I think either option looks bad. (Either I let him off too easy or I didn't keep my word). All that said, it is hard to come up with cases and defend them early in the game.

White Castle why are you so worried about looking bad? It's page 4 of D1 the game isn't about you it's about the town. I don't like the fact that you're so hesitant to take action, seems like you're a little bit more skiddish about doing something to attract attention to yourself. Neither option would look bad if you properly explain yourself.

The question reminded me of a past mislynch I participated in over similar events (zwet in Open 110). I'd prefer to not make the same mistakes twice. I think it would have also set a bad prescedent. I'm also against bad prescedents, like when millar voted without giving a reason.

As for your concern about me not taking action, I've got a high post count and I'm also leaving a voting record.

Speaking of voting records, I noticed you and skitzer have yet to vote.

[White Castle]

I've already stated I don't random vote but I'm not quite sure how relevant your voting record is so far.

Not random voting this game.

Of course I'm aware of the policy lynching of Empking, who isn't that has played with him before? But no I just don't random vote.

Basically Empking gets policy lynched because people don't believe he's helpful and contributes to the game positively and that it's helpful to lynch him before we get stuck in a situation like lylo and we still have him in the game.

Great a nightless with a billion scum...

vote white castel

My theory is that scum would feel weird playing with more scumpartners than usual and would be more apt to make such a comment.

Vote: Lowell

Then there is a disagreement as to if we're still random voting or not. For example, Netlava is against random voting, but started voting in post 45. I'm not random voting anymore, and haven't been since I voted Lowell.

[White Castle]

Mod - I object to my prod.

I last posted 4/1, so it hasn't been a week yet as per the rules. I was aware it had been a while, so I was going to devote my lunch hour to this game. Quarterly reporting got me.

V/LA 4/22 to 4/27 to attend an out of town wedding.

[White Castle]

* Lurking is not allowed as a strategy in this game, as it is highly likely to slow the game down to a halt. Any player who becomes inactive will be prodded after one week, and will be replaced if there are no posts after two weeks of inactivity.

This shouldn't count as a prod as per the rule.

[White Castle]

Oops! Forgot Page 4 existed.

White Castle in Post 75: You make 2 wiki uses in 8 posts sound like nothing. I may use it once, but usually never in a game. Please don't play the newbie card. You skipped over the OMGUS, so I'm assuming your not denying it. I wouldn't either. About Post 51: Exactly. Lowell had very little with which to defend himself. I can see your point about the other 4, surprisingly. At least you actually had something to go off of. And about V/LA: Oops, I slightly lied.

But then... White Castle in Post 77: I pose the same question to you that you posed to me. What about the other 3 that quickly hopped on the wagon?

I'm glad someone else (go Netlava!) picked up what I was thinking.

After, re-reading the thread,

Vote: Skitzer

The way he characterizes things makes me suspicious i.e.

farside in Post 24: Sadly, that almost sounds like a good idea.

In reference to the policy lynch proposal. Something about "sadly" and "policy lynch" doesn't mix.

Ugh, White Castle, your constant linkage to the Wiki makes me feel weird about you.

The word constant is a bit of an exaggeration imo. Note that Adam Smith also says something along these lines though.

Netlava in Post 68: Eww. Everyone off the ol' Lowellwagon!

Not liking this for obvious reasons.

White Castle in Post 75: You make 2 wiki uses in 8 posts sound like nothing.

I may use it once, but usually never in a game.

Bolded part is what I don't like.

But then... White Castle in Post 77: I pose the same question to you that you posed to me. What about the other 3 that quickly hopped on the wagon?

It wasn't a wagon yet when I joined.

Wall-E in Post 100: Why? I definitely agree with hewitt here: saying all you've got is better for town rather than holding stuff back.

Jazzmyn in Post 105: Sure, but that sounds more like an easy out to me. It's all WIFOM now though.

Netlava in Post 111: I'm sorry for my cadences, but they seem to be correct in their statings. First quote was joking, second quote was exaggeration, but it is a lot more than I've ever seen anyone do it before. The third quote looks OMGUSy. Fourth quote doesn't make sense, and fifth one may have been inconsistent, but you were/still are on the bandwagon at one point.

skitzer, if you are town you aren't being pro-town. How are we supposed to know when you are "joking", "exaggerating", "incoherent" (OK, that was easy to pick up), or "inconsistent".

How about "scumhunting" for a change

?

As for me quoting the wiki twice (in consecutive posts 3 minutes apart no less) being "a lot more than you've ever seen anyone do it before". I know for a fact that farside brought it up once in this game before I ever did. Was that a big deal? You haven't mentioned it. Your yardstick of "twice is unusual but once is fine" baffles me.

Further, I asked you first about your opinions of the others on the Lowell bandwagon. It is fair to ask for my opinions, but only after you answer my question (which you hadn't in 124 which is your last game post). You'll get your answer after I get mine. Either deliberately or accidentally, you're trying to set a bad precedent. If everyone when asked a question fires it back at the questioner without answering, this game is futile.

As of my writing, we're up to post 142 and you still haven't voted either. What are you waiting for?

[White Castle]

@everyone - this is the second bad precedent I've noted in this game, the other coming from millar for voting Lowell without giving a reason. Why are the rest of you content to let that happen?

[White Castle]

hewitt is the other non-voter.

I don't like the people who are hopping on and off the bandwagon. They hop on for a pretty silly reason and then hop right back off once it seems people are questioning the wagon.

If you don't find it scummy, then why are you telling us that you don't like it? You said you don't random vote. Fine. What are you waiting for? We're close to 150 posts now. I've got news for you: 10 of us have already voted. At most, 4 out of those 10 are scum meaning that at least 6 town have already voted. You are the outlier, not those of us who have voted. Skitzer hasn't voted, but was on V/LA. You have been around, and your lack of voting is astounding.

Well in my opinion wasn't even an attack Wall-E. I wanted to point out that I didn't think he needed to be so skiddish about looking bad. I don't think I phrased it as an attack at all I was merely voicing my opinion.

We're not mindreaders. If it wasn't an attack, then what point did it serve?

Touche. I guess I just disagree with you then.

And that's fine, I guess I just encourage throwing yourself out there for the town's benefit over your own personal safety. I would much rather appreciate town not holding back instead of holding it in.

So we should "thow ourselves out there", huh? Wouldn't voting be a prime way to do that? Between this post and 90, I see a lot of hypocrisy.

[White Castle]

So which, if any, of these 6 game posts is Empking deserving of a policy lynch? Is Empking displaying a different playstyle this game? I'm looking for comments from anyone who has played with Empking before, but especially farside (she brought it up first in post 24), and hewitt (commented on it in post 25).

Vote: FS

- Liars who push policy lynches are almost always scum.

Ah, so metagaming is essentially the opposite of playing to win?

The second one is.

I dislike the speed of that. I'm going to be paying attention to the last three plsayers this game.

Unvote: Vote Lowell

yay

Can you give a reason with your vote?

Unvote

Vote; Lowell

The Nigtless and Try Harder comments.

Lowell looks like he's sitting back.

[White Castle]

Touche. I guess I just disagree with you then.

And that's fine, I guess I just encourage throwing yourself out there for the town's benefit over your own personal safety. I would much rather appreciate town not holding back instead of holding it in.

I believe that it's more pro-town NOT to voice my opinion on some issues.

I agree with you Wall-E

[White Castle]

I want to know if Farside and White castle...think be jumping on the wagon is enough of a reason to want to lynch me?
Or if really, one if not both of them really has a hidden agenda "eg; being scum"

I believe I have already covered this. It wasn't that you jumped, it was that you gave no reason for jumping on.

[White Castle]

It's an ambushing thing: Suddenly popping up with a huge amount of carefully collected evidence... I've seen it win games for the town.

If, on the other hand, I said, "Oh, I've got my eye on you, Wall-E" then Wall-E is going to stop providing me with evidence against him. Feedback is a tool the scum use in this manner.

No feedback for the scum is my motto. That's also why I don't discuss who's town-looking without a good reason.

Uh, I don't like to discuss my meta unless it's relevant, so try to keep it relevant, ok? I don't have a good judgement of such things which is what gets me into trouble sometimes with moderators, so help me help you help me, if you please, kiss.

There may be additional merit to the ambush in a nightless game, since you don't have to worry about the NK.

This also leads me to believe that being an aggressive townie is the best strategy. You've got nothing to lose at night. I believe that anyone that has been passive (especially non-voters, low count posters, and low content posters) is more likely to be scum.

What do you think about each of us putting together a list of their top four suspects in order? At a minimum, we should get this from everyone before they are lynched (a town lynch would give us an un-scum-biased list, I won't comment on what a scum lynch would tell us because, as you say, don't give the scum feedback).

[White Castle]

This thread is derailing fast. I'd help save it but I'm worn out from huge quotewar. I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

Would try to save the thread, but apparently I'm not allowed to prod people in this game. Sorry.

I'll get to outstanding business later today - I had to respond to this now.

Rishi - was this a jab at me? I'm not the one who wrote the rules. I merely expect you to follow what you set up.

Since the thread is going downhill, then I suggest a mass prod to all players informing us that we can/will be prodded after X days of inactivity. X would be < 7 and chosen by you. You should then also update the rules to reflect the new policy. Hopefully this would also prevent a deadline.

[White Castle]

White Castle, are you going to answer my questions???

Please see post 163 where I said I'd get to this later today.

hewitt is the other non-voter.

I don't like the people who are hopping on and off the bandwagon. They hop on for a pretty silly reason and then hop right back off once it seems people are questioning the wagon.

If you don't find it scummy, then why are you telling us that you don't like it? You said you don't random vote. Fine. What are you waiting for? We're close to 150 posts now. I've got news for you: 10 of us have already voted. At most, 4 out of those 10 are scum meaning that at least 6 town have already voted. You are the outlier, not those of us who have voted. Skitzer hasn't voted, but was on V/LA. You have been around, and your lack of voting is astounding.

Well in my opinion wasn't even an attack Wall-E. I wanted to point out that I didn't think he needed to be so skiddish about looking bad. I don't think I phrased it as an attack at all I was merely voicing my opinion.

We're not mindreaders. If it wasn't an attack, then what point did it serve?

Touche. I guess I just disagree with you then.

And that's fine, I guess I just encourage throwing yourself out there for the town's benefit over your own personal safety. I would much rather appreciate town not holding back instead of holding it in.

So we should "thow ourselves out there", huh? Wouldn't voting be a prime way to do that? Between this post and 90, I see a lot of hypocrisy.

All answer them in order.

1. White Castle...we don't have a deadline yet. 150 posts? That must be a joke right? I don't think I've ever played in a game when there was a D1 lynch earlier than page 20 which we are not even close to yet. Just because most of the town has voted does not mean they are right does it? I don't vote until I find someone vote-worthy, I don't see what is so hard to fathom about that. And there's a big difference between not liking something and calling it scummy. At this point I don't think I like you very much but that doesn't make you scummy.

2. If it wasn't an attack, then what purpose did it serve? Again, are you joking? Are you expecting every post someone makes to be an attack on someone? I wasn't aware opinions were not allowed in this game White Castle. My opinion being voiced is thrown out there so everybody knows where I stand on an issue, doesn't have to be an attack to be helpful to town.

3. How is voting more of throwing yourself out there than posting your opinions? There have been many unexplained votes out there and so you are saying that those unexplained votes are more important than voiced opinions that do not contain a vote? Voting can be throwing yourself out there but only if you back it up and no it's not hypocrisy. You're totally trying to twist my non-voting around into making it a scumtell.

White Castle you are making absolutely no sense to me right now. It's almost like you are trying to persuade me to play illogically.

I don't understand any of what you're getting at.

Oh and I also love the attempt to try and separate me from the rest of the town by calling me the outlier and not "one of us". What is that supposed to mean?

Answer all my questions please.

I've gone ahead and used bold, italic, underlined font to get to the root of the problem.

1. Where did I say lynch? Nowhere. I said vote. It is unusual that you haven't voted yet. You could vote for anyone, and they wouldn't get lynched right now because they wouldn't have enough votes. As I showed in your post 90, you were getting on people for voting. I wanted to turn the tables on you. I'd rather have voting records to help in the scumhunt.

2. Where did I say every post has to be an attack? I said being aggressive was a good strategy since there is no NK.

3. Voting is additional information that is very useful. There was only one unexplained vote that I saw, and it came from millar. What votes do you think are unexplained?

4. From post 151 - you aren't making sense. Yes, I attacked you. Yes, I think we should be aggressive. Where is my hypocrisy? I have already stated your hypocrisy (which you never defended) is in saying "we should throw ourselves out there" while you haven't voted after 150 posts.

5. I asked for your take on Empking in 146. Where is that?

And as for you and skitzer both - stop being whimps and vote. Voting also puts pressure on people, and could cause scum to crack.

As for me making non-voting a scumtell, the jury is still out. I'm trying to figure out if you're indecisive town or something more sinister.

[White Castle]

White Castle, I vote to lynch. When I vote, it is with the intent to lynch and everybody who's played with me before has learned that and knows that and now so do you. So my vote is never misinterpreted as something that it isn't. And your hypocrisy comes right here...

Post 51 was Lowell, not me. Your question strikes me as anti-town because an answer leads down a dark path. Suppose I answer "Lowell could have said X". In Lowell's next post he says X. I could keep my vote on him or unvote. I think either option looks bad. (Either I let him off too easy or I didn't keep my word). All that said, it is hard to come up with cases and defend them early in the game.

You just admitted how nervous you were about doing something because you didn't want it to "look bad". Wow, that's such aggressive play...

As for Empking I don't like him, never have, probably never will. I think he's unhelpful and it sucks playing with him.

Oh and as for non-voting being a choice between indecisive town or something more sinister? That's a little silly. You can't honestly believe that. I don't vote until an intent to lynch because I don't like mistakes in this game. I like for us to win and I like for us to win as cleanly as possible. Does it ever happen? No, but I can try.

We're 181 posts into a game and we've been going at it for a while now. Why did you wait until now to tell me (and everyone else) about your voting?

There is no hyporcisy in being aggressive - and smart. I already commented on that about learning from past mistakes. Your idea that I am "nervous" is reaching, and innacurate. See my Post 82 below for my additional comments.

As you haven't commented on your own hypocrisy in two posts, I can only assume that you are content to be labeled a hypocrite.

When you quoted me above, I find it interesting that I was replying to skitzer who I'm also pressuring to vote.

As for non-voting, or any other action/inaction for that matter, everything in this game boils down to town or scum. I believe you are acting anti-town at best (sinister), and scummy at worst (more sinister).

How about linking me to a game where you were A) town and B) voting only to lynch?

Post 51 was Lowell, not me. Your question strikes me as anti-town because an answer leads down a dark path. Suppose I answer "Lowell could have said X". In Lowell's next post he says X. I could keep my vote on him or unvote. I think either option looks bad. (Either I let him off too easy or I didn't keep my word). All that said, it is hard to come up with cases and defend them early in the game.

White Castle why are you so worried about looking bad? It's page 4 of D1 the game isn't about you it's about the town. I don't like the fact that you're so hesitant to take action, seems like you're a little bit more skiddish about doing something to attract attention to yourself. Neither option would look bad if you properly explain yourself.

The question reminded me of a past mislynch I participated in over similar events (zwet in Open 110). I'd prefer to not make the same mistakes twice. I think it would have also set a bad prescedent. I'm also against bad prescedents, like when millar voted without giving a reason.

As for your concern about me not taking action, I've got a high post count and I'm also leaving a voting record.

Speaking of voting records, I noticed you and skitzer have yet to vote.

[White Castle]

Still here. Will write a summary post when I get a chance.

Hey Lowell - we're still waiting for that summary post from April 4th. Here are all of your posts since then.

Still here. Jury duty kept me away.

154 is a dumb response to 153. millar looks worse in my eyes as a result of 153.

pretty sure skitzer is town. don't ask how I know. magic.

I also noticed that you've posted about 50 times since you resolved to write your summary. So when will you "get a chance"?

We're going to need more from you than just "majic" reasons too.

[White Castle]

In response to hewitt 183

hewitt is the other non-voter.

I don't like the people who are hopping on and off the bandwagon. They hop on for a pretty silly reason and then hop right back off once it seems people are questioning the wagon.

If you don't find it scummy, then why are you telling us that you don't like it? You said you don't random vote. Fine. What are you waiting for? We're close to 150 posts now. I've got news for you: 10 of us have already voted. At most, 4 out of those 10 are scum meaning that at least 6 town have already voted. You are the outlier, not those of us who have voted. Skitzer hasn't voted, but was on V/LA. You have been around, and your lack of voting is astounding.

Well in my opinion wasn't even an attack Wall-E. I wanted to point out that I didn't think he needed to be so skiddish about looking bad. I don't think I phrased it as an attack at all I was merely voicing my opinion.

We're not mindreaders. If it wasn't an attack, then what point did it serve?

Touche. I guess I just disagree with you then.

And that's fine, I guess I just encourage throwing yourself out there for the town's benefit over your own personal safety. I would much rather appreciate town not holding back instead of holding it in.

So we should "thow ourselves out there", huh? Wouldn't voting be a prime way to do that? Between this post and 90, I see a lot of hypocrisy.

Alright hewit. Here is your hypocrisy.

You encourage us to "throw yourself out there for the town's benefit over your own safety". I stand by my statement that voting (even if the sole purpose of the vote is not to lynch) is a means of "throwing yourself out there". As I have shown, you were on people for voting and unvoting. I have also shown that at least 6 town players have voted, yet you and skitzer have not. It is fascinating that your criticism applies more to town than it does scum.

In a nutshell, you can't have it both ways - you can't encourage us to throw ourselves out there and then criticize us for voting.

And as for your claim that "I was not aware that voting with the intent to lynch was a bad thing", that is not what I said or implied.

And by the way, I've noted that your story has evolved from "I just don't random vote" (below) to "I don't vote until an intent to lynch because I don't like mistakes in this game" in post 170.
[quote=""hewitt Post 42""]Of course I'm aware of the policy lynching of Empking, who isn't that has played with him before? But no I just don't random vote.

Basically Empking gets policy lynched because people don't believe he's helpful and contributes to the game positively and that it's helpful to lynch him before we get stuck in a situation like lylo and we still have him in the game.[/quote]

[White Castle]

I have also shown that at least 6 town players have voted, yet you and skitzer have not.

Oh really now? Nice freudian slip White Castle.

Hey genius, I said that in post 145 that I referenced above.

That's the best response you could come up with?

unvote, vote hewitt

[White Castle]

It was a cross post, but you'd know that if you had paid attention to the time.

I don't like the people who are hopping on and off the bandwagon. They hop on for a pretty silly reason and then hop right back off once it seems people are questioning the wagon.

As of the time of your post 90, everyone but you and skitzer had voted. There had been 18 votes cast, of which 8 were unvotes/revotes by me, Adam Smith, Jazzmyn, millar, Jazzmyn again farside, Netlava, and me again. The last voting was done in post 77.

So that's a lot of "people you don't like".

If only this game were full of people like you and skitzer. There's be no votes.

Are there any other scumhunting tactics you are against?

[White Castle]

No, White Castle, I've made it clear that I don't like players who hop on and off wagons for no or silly reasons. I especially don't like when people hop off a wagon when it starts to be questioned. I don't know how to make it any clearer then that for you.

Then name names and make cases. Be specific. Make it clear which players in the list I made were "hopping on and off wagons for no or silly reasons". Your post 90 uses pronouns and not names.

[White Castle]

I'm going to go along with hewitt here. It's clearly a slip.

Unvote: Vote: White Castle

Wall-E, you've misread things I've said before. This is another instance.

10 people in this game have voted. It means that

at least 6

town players have voted. That means that 6, 7, or 8 of the players that have voted are town because there are 4 scum out of 12 players.

Would a scum slip have included the phrase

at least

? A scum could make an absolute statement like "X town players have already voted" because they would know for certain.

[White Castle]

I never said you didn't name names.

Then name names and make cases. Be specific. Make it clear which players in the list I made were "hopping on and off wagons for no or silly reasons". Your post 90 uses pronouns and not names.

Oh yeah White Castle, I didn't name names...

Hm the speed of the bandwagon was pretty quick, I'm not convinced Adam Smith or Jazzmyn really paid attention to what they were doing. Seems more to me like they were just like oh cool a bandwagon let's jump on!

Eh, I guess I should add millar to that list as well with Adam Smith and jazzmyn.

Yeah I really don't check out what game I'm going into before signing up either. So why did you hop on the bandwagon Wall-E?

I added the post numbers. How were we supposed to know in Post 90 that this is what you were referring to? There were other votes between 67 and 90, and earlier votes you didn't comment on. Be specific and leave a trail.

[White Castle]

Aight well are you going to ignore my post White Castle?

Would you please stop doing this? I had to go back and find post numbers.

[White Castle]

Here is the chain of events hewitt:

Hm the speed of the bandwagon was pretty quick, I'm not convinced Adam Smith or Jazzmyn really paid attention to what they were doing. Seems more to me like they were just like oh cool a bandwagon let's jump on!

Eh, I guess I should add millar to that list as well with Adam Smith and jazzmyn.

Yeah I really don't check out what game I'm going into before signing up either. So why did you hop on the bandwagon Wall-E?

I don't like the people who are hopping on and off the bandwagon. They hop on for a pretty silly reason and then hop right back off once it seems people are questioning the wagon.

White Castle I made it SO clear that the people I didn't like were the ones who hop on and off the bandwagon for no or silly reasons. I don't know how you couldn't have known who I was talking about and actually yeah you did say I didn't name names. You JUST said it in post 192.

How were we supposed to know that 58, 60, and 67 is what you were referring to in Post 90? Post 90 doesn't name names and there were other votes between 67 and 90 along with earlier votes you didn't comment on.

It was not "SO clear" as you contend in post 199.

If 90 was meant as a vague summary of 58, 60, and 67 then what purpose did it serve other than to add to your post count?

Further, I went back and looked at the votes you mention. Jazzmyn clearly stated the reasons for voting and unvoting. Adam Smith tacked on the third Lowell vote and gave just as much reason as Netlava, whose second Lowell vote you didn't have a problem with. Why Adam Smith but not Netlava?

I agree that millar's vote was scummy to the point I voted for him.

[White Castle]

I'm going to go along with hewitt here. It's clearly a slip.

Unvote: Vote: White Castle

Wall-E, you've misread things I've said before. This is another instance.

10 people in this game have voted. It means that

at least 6

town players have voted. That means that 6, 7, or 8 of the players that have voted are town because there are 4 scum out of 12 players.

Would a scum slip have included the phrase

at least

? A scum could make an absolute statement like "X town players have already voted" because they would know for certain.

...you admit it's awkward, though.

Where did you get this "admission" from? I made a logical mathematical statement. If I say "1 + 1 = 2" would that also be enough for you to vote me?

[White Castle]

Are you being ironic?

No.

The irony is two low-content posters getting into a discussion of irony.

[White Castle]

Rishi - Please prod accordingly (I know lixyl is being replaced):

Name, Posts, time since last post

Adam Smith 10 Posts 5 days 10 hours

Empking 11 Posts 0 days 1 hours
farside22 11 Posts 1 days 14 hours
hewitt 31 Posts 1 days 17 hours
Jazzmyn 14 Posts 1 days 14 hours
lixyl 3 Posts 12 days 12 hours

Lowell 12 Posts 3 days 14 hours

millar13 23 Posts 0 days 2 hours
Netlava 12 Posts 1 days 11 hours
Rishi 17 Posts 1 days 12 hours

skitzer 9 Posts 3 days 20 hours

Wall-E 23 Posts 0 days 13 hours
White Castle 38 Posts 0 days 0 hours

[White Castle]

Are you being ironic?

No.

The irony is two low-content posters getting into a discussion of irony.

I don't think that post was very content-ful. Are you tricking the statistics?

I agree it wasn't very content-ful. It didn't impact the time since last post, but it did add one to the overall post count. I included post count because it was there when I got everyone's last post.

Do you use post count to scum hunt?

[White Castle]

Rishi - Please prod accordingly (I know lixyl is being replaced):

Thanks for that. I was actually going to check for prods this morning. Will prod Adam Smith, but the current policy is to prod after 96 hours.

I wasn't sure when you'd check the thread, and the two others were getting close so I bolded them.

[White Castle]

hewitt, you're really taking this no voting to an extreme. Just unvote for crying out loud.

This would have been a lot funnier if Lowell was already at L-1 when you did it.

[White Castle]

Netlava's vote to me looked as if it was a joke vote and I think it is. The way it's phrased with the "my theory" makes it sound as if he is kidding, still the random voting period remember?

You're making it seem like I attacked them hardcore or something when all I really did was make some small observations, I think your arguments against it are pretty silly White Castle.

Not random voting this game.

[quote=""Netlava Post 45""][quote=""Lowell""]Great a nightless with a billion scum...

vote white castel

[/quote]

My theory is that scum would feel weird playing with more scumpartners than usual and would be more apt to make such a comment.

Vote: Lowell

[/quote]

We disagree about Netlava's vote then. After Netlava stated he wouldn't random vote, I interpreted the "my theory" to be Netlava dropping subtle town vibes.

I'm doing my best to look for scum, while you continue to exaggerate.

[White Castle]

Still waiting on this Lowell. Why don't you "try harder".

Still here. Will write a summary post when I get a chance.

Hey Lowell - we're still waiting for that summary post from April 4th. Here are all of your posts since then.

Still here. Jury duty kept me away.

154 is a dumb response to 153. millar looks worse in my eyes as a result of 153.

pretty sure skitzer is town. don't ask how I know. magic.

I also noticed that you've posted about 50 times since you resolved to write your summary. So when will you "get a chance"?

We're going to need more from you than just "majic" reasons too.

[White Castle]

farside - when you get caught up, please answer this (and include all of Empking's posts, not just the ones mentioned below).

So which, if any, of these 6 game posts is Empking deserving of a policy lynch? Is Empking displaying a different playstyle this game? I'm looking for comments from anyone who has played with Empking before, but especially farside (she brought it up first in post 24), and hewitt (commented on it in post 25).

Vote: FS

- Liars who push policy lynches are almost always scum.

Ah, so metagaming is essentially the opposite of playing to win?

The second one is.

I dislike the speed of that. I'm going to be paying attention to the last three plsayers this game.

Unvote: Vote Lowell

yay

Can you give a reason with your vote?

Unvote

Vote; Lowell

The Nigtless and Try Harder comments.

Lowell looks like he's sitting back.

[White Castle]

hewitt, if you are scum keep it up and get modkilled. Otherwise just let it go.

It's a good decision by the mod because it follows the rules, likely didn't impact the outcome of the game, and prevents scum from "accidental"-broken-quote-hammering.

[White Castle]

Runthrough:

150- white castle wants a "list" from everyone [-, this can't help]
180s- hewitt and white castle argue over former's voting habits
188- white castle votes hewitt [-]

Some things that strike me now that I'm actually paying attention:

netlava

and

hewitt

are the most pro-town players, by far. Netlava has not jumped lazily on bandwagons. He doesn't post all that much, but I feel like I know clearly where he stands, which is a plus. The fact that hewitt isn't afraid to make people angry is good. Also that he hasn't been an idiot and jumped on my wagon is a plus.

Something is up with

millar

, and it isn't good. I read him originally as town, but now I'm not feeling it. He jumped on the lowell wagon in 59 with no explanation (right after wall-e had said he wanted to). In 136 emp accuses me of lurking. Millar immediately agrees in 137. Again, in 221 wall-e votes lowell, and millar posts right after to CONFIRM his vote on me. Everything millar does reeks of a desperate need to be loved... particularly by emp and wall-e.

wall-e

, as well, looks bad. He initially states his interest in voting me, but is cautious to do so in fear of looking too eager. Then he votes for me when it's safe. Later, post 221 makes no sense, and he looks eager to go back to a safe wagon. Worse, he did this after I voiced my disagreement with those who considered there to be a white castle "slip." Wall-E was one of these people. So, if he thinks white castle slipped, and is scum, why did he immediately jump on to me and say that I was "clearing people for scum to kill"? I think his heart was never in the white castle wagon.

white castle

is hard to read. On the one hand, I admire his aggressiveness and willingness to move the thread forward. On the other hand, I have him linked to unsavory characters like wall-e and millar a little too much for my liking. They tried a bit too hard in the 220s to run interference.

I expect more, generally, all the way around, from

skitzer

and

farside

. I've played with them before and nothing about their play here makes me think they care who wins.

jazzmyn

looks relatively town, though I don't have much to go on.

Anyone I haven't mentioned I have no opinion of because they're lurky or pointless.

FOS millar
FOS white castle
unvote, vote Wall-E

It's an ambushing thing: Suddenly popping up with a huge amount of carefully collected evidence... I've seen it win games for the town.

If, on the other hand, I said, "Oh, I've got my eye on you, Wall-E" then Wall-E is going to stop providing me with evidence against him. Feedback is a tool the scum use in this manner.

No feedback for the scum is my motto. That's also why I don't discuss who's town-looking without a good reason.

Uh, I don't like to discuss my meta unless it's relevant, so try to keep it relevant, ok? I don't have a good judgement of such things which is what gets me into trouble sometimes with moderators, so help me help you help me, if you please, kiss.

There may be additional merit to the ambush in a nightless game, since you don't have to worry about the NK.

This also leads me to believe that being an aggressive townie is the best strategy. You've got nothing to lose at night. I believe that anyone that has been passive (especially non-voters, low count posters, and low content posters) is more likely to be scum.

What do you think about each of us putting together a list of their top four suspects in order? At a minimum, we should get this from everyone before they are lynched (a town lynch would give us an un-scum-biased list, I won't comment on what a scum lynch would tell us because, as you say, don't give the scum feedback).

I'll start with Post 150. Note that I was asking for suspects only, and then I came up with what I though was a really good suggestion (that we get a list of suspects from everyone before their lynch). You hold this against me ("it can't help"), and then what did you do is post 247? Make a list!

For completenesss, here are the people not on your list:

Adam Smith - where has he been?
Empking - to policy lynch or not policy lynch?
lixyl - being replaced
Lowell - "Some things that strike me now that I'm actually paying attention" - nice that you've been at L-2 three times and are now just taking this game seriously. Maybe you don't have to worry since your scumbuddies have your back?

[White Castle]

hewitt, could you please go look those games up?

[quote=""hewitt Post 183""][quote=""White Castle""]We're 181 posts into a game and we've been going at it for a while now. Why did you wait until now to tell me (and everyone else) about your voting?

There is no hyporcisy in being aggressive - and smart. I already commented on that about learning from past mistakes. Your idea that I am ""nervous"" is reaching, and innacurate. See my Post 82 below for my additional comments.

As you haven't commented on your own hypocrisy in two posts, I can only assume that you are content to be labeled a hypocrite.

When you quoted me above, I find it interesting that I was replying to skitzer who I'm also pressuring to vote.

As for non-voting, or any other action/inaction for that matter, everything in this game boils down to town or scum. I believe you are acting anti-town at best (sinister), and scummy at worst (more sinister).

How about linking me to a game where you were A) town and B) voting only to lynch?[/quote]

Because I didn't think it was a big deal obviously. I was not aware that voting with the intent to lynch was a bad thing White Castle. I don't see how I'm a hypocrite so give me a good reason as to why I'm a hypocrite and then I'll talk about it. I pointed out that quote because it was where I found you to be a hypocrite and please give me good examples as to where I'm being sinister, anti-town, and scummy. I don't save my games so I'll have to go look them up.[/quote]

[White Castle]

My two completed games as town were Open 121 and Newbie 715.

Anything completed as scum?

[White Castle]

hewitt, you're really taking this no voting to an extreme. Just unvote for crying out loud.

This would have been a lot funnier if Lowell was already at L-1 when you did it.

A few have commented on the funnier part now, and it was merely sarcasm.

[White Castle]

Sorry for the long post. I wanted to get all the Wall-E - Jazz all in one place.

Lowell - "Some things that strike me now that I'm actually paying attention" - nice that you've been at L-2 three times and are now just taking this game seriously. Maybe you don't have to worry since your scumbuddies have your back?

Who, in your opinion, has had my back in this game?

...Who was that question directed at Wall-E?

It seems I was on another page when I posted that and now I can't find the post I was referencing nor the name of the person I was talking to.

WC note – Wall-E wasn’t on another page, this is all still on page 11. Jazz summarizes these posts in 271 and poses the question:

Hmm. Wall-e, did you get confused and respond to the "scumbuddies" bit by accident?

Regards,
Jazz

How would it be confusion? I thought it was directed at me. Do you honestly think I'm the type of person who would be baited into responding to the word "scumbuddies" like that? I have a bit better of a poker-face than that!

WC note - Wall-E

was

confused because he thought my 262 was directed at him. He might have slipped up and is using the excuse that it would be below him to make such a mistake. Nobody is perfect, so I don't buy the defense so far. Further, Wall-E has also been giving me the impression that he is unaware this is a nightless game ("clearing townies for the scum to kill" and the like), so I contend that he is capable of this slip. Finally, he voted me for my "slip" so by his own yardstick we should vote him for what is a possible legitimate slip.

I thought it was directed at me.

Um, what? Then why did you say that you didn't know what it was about and that you didn't even know what post you were referencing?

Do you honestly think I'm the type of person who would be baited into responding to the word "scumbuddies" like that?

It is quite apparent that you did, in fact, respond to it (no baiting required), and it is also apparent that you later claimed not to know what you were responding to, nor why. So, please explain that.

I have a bit better of a poker-face than that!

Really? In whose opinion? Aren't you the same guy who claims to be the longest-running newbie ever, and who claims to be useless at the game when it suits you to say so? Was that in this game or some other recent game?

Regards,
Jazz

WC note - does Wall-E respond to "longest-running newbie ever, and who claims to be useless at the game when it suits you to say so"?

I thought it was directed at me.

Um, what? Then why did you say that you didn't know what it was about and that you didn't even know what post you were referencing?

Do you honestly think I'm the type of person who would be baited into responding to the word "scumbuddies" like that?

It is quite apparent that you did, in fact, respond to it (no baiting required), and it is also apparent that you later claimed not to know what you were responding to, nor why. So, please explain that.

I have a bit better of a poker-face than that!

Really? In whose opinion? Aren't you the same guy who claims to be the longest-running newbie ever, and who claims to be useless at the game when it suits you to say so? Was that in this game or some other recent game?

Regards,
Jazz

I lost the post, you found it and pointed out that it wasn't directed at me. Thanks!

I suppose, Jazzmyn, that my point is this: I would never respond to a post that called the addressee scum unless my name was attached to the post. Ever.

WC note - Wall-E denies the existence of his own post 267, I'm glad Jazz asks about it next.

I suppose, Jazzmyn, that my point is this: I would never respond to a post that called the addressee scum unless my name was attached to the post. Ever.

And yet, you responded to a post calling Lowell scum in which he was asked if his scumbuddies had his back, by posting, "Who, in your opinion, has had my back in this game?" How do you explain that?

Regards,
Jazz

An honest mistake. I now see your point, but who would really feel baited into responding to something like that as scum? I guess I just feel like that's insulting.

The theory you are presenting is this:

Bob: Johnny is the scum.

Scum-Mike: Am

not

the scum!

Bob: I was addressing Johnny.

Right?

The situation was this:

Bob: Johnny is scum.

Mike: Are you talking to me? Why do you say that?

Bob: I was talking to Johnny.

Mike: Oh. My bad. I misread something.

WC note - Wall-E's feelings are not relevant, and are an appeal to emotion ("I'm insulted").

An honest mistake. I now see your point, but who would really feel baited into responding to something like that as scum? I guess I just feel like that's insulting.

But nobody ever said that you were baited into anything. Rather, you raised the "baiting" issue yourself. It's weird, though, that you said that you would never EVER respond to a post referencing scum if it did not name you specifically (even though you did precisely that).

The theory you are presenting is this:
Bob: Johnny is the scum.
Scum-Mike: Am

not

the scum!
Bob: I was addressing Johnny.
Right?

Wrong. I didn't present a theory. I noticed and commented on the fact that you responded to a "scumbuddies" comment by White Castle, which was directed to Lowell, in a manner that shows that you thought it was referencing you. Your explanation for it has been less than satisfactory.

The situation was this:
Bob: Johnny is scum.
Mike: Are you talking to me? Why do you say that?
Bob: I was talking to Johnny.
Mike: Oh. My bad. I misread something.

No, the situation was more like this:
WC: Lowell is scum and so are his scumbuddies.
Wall: No, I'm not.
Hewitt: Who are you talking to, Wall?
Wall: I dunno. Can't find the post or the person that I was referencing.
Jazz: The post is right there, and it didn't mention you at all. Did you get confused and respond to the scumbuddies comment by accident?
Wall: I thought it was directed to me.
Jazz: But you just said you didn't know what it was you were responding to.
Wall: I have too good a poker face to respond to something like that.
Jazz: But you just did respond to it, and then said you didn't know what you were responding to, and then said you thought it was directed to you.
Wall: I would never - ever - respond to a post that referred to the addressee as scum unless it had my name attached to it.
Jazz: And yet, you just did.
Wall: Oh, oops, yeah, I guess I see your point. Honest mistake. But I would never, ever be baited into responding to the post I actually responded to, no really, that's insulting.

Bizarro.

Regards,
Jazz

WC note - I agree with most of Jazz's summary, an exception being that the beginning the discussion was about scumbuddies having each other's backs.

An honest mistake. I now see your point, but who would really feel baited into responding to something like that as scum? I guess I just feel like that's insulting.

But nobody ever said that you were baited into anything. Rather, you raised the "baiting" issue yourself. It's weird, though, that you said that you would never EVER respond to a post referencing scum if it did not name you specifically (even though you did precisely that).

Ah. I see our problem.

I thought I saw my name on the post.

Sorry for the confusion.

WC note - Wall-E's total defense is that it is insulting and below him to make that slip. Wall-E hasn't yet responded to "longest-running newbie ever, and who claims to be useless at the game when it suits you to say so"? Overall, his defense has made him look scummier.

Lowell didn't respond to my post 262 either, and I'd like him to.

Jazz did a good job of following up on this.

[White Castle]

V/LA 4/22 to 4/27 to attend an out of town wedding.

Also

unvote

I firmly believe that we need to get the two replacements before we lynch.

[White Castle]

I'm back from V/LA.

I wonder if we're better off not posting much until we get two replacements. It might be easier to get replacements for a 14 page game.

[White Castle]

hewitt- when three people in a game have a hard time understanding you, maybe you're the problem.

[White Castle]

I'd like more people to think about voting Wall-E, please.

Try harder. Give us a reason.

[White Castle]

I posted a large post about it. You want me to cut and paste?

You're using that big post from 12 days ago as a crutch. Do you have anything to add to it?

[White Castle]

What question hewitt? I had a hard time understanding what you meant earlier, not about policy lynching.

[White Castle]

Well then why didn't you say that, okay I redirect my question Empking and Wall-E.

You're right. I should have said so. I've just tired of the way you try to turn it around and say the problem is with us.

[White Castle]

There you go again with the backhanded comments.

[White Castle]

Finally, some replacements! Thanks fellas.

[White Castle]

I would counter that a good player doesn't need to know the setup to catch scum, provided he pays attention to the posts and looks for logical inconsistencies. If the fact that the game is nightless or has no power roles escapes my logic once and again, is that scummy?

I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. A good player would keep himself informed as to the game mechanics from the beginning. Further, each mod is different and you could get yourself modkilled. Tell me, have you ever been modkilled and, if so, how many times?

It's laughable that it's taken almost 400 posts for you to realize that this game is nightless. I've tried to tell you this before, yet it apparantly went over your head. You're not a "good player" if you are oblivious to the setup or random vote all of Day 1.

Earlier in this game you also responded to a conversation about scumbuddies that wasn't even directed at you.

You've become a liability. It seems everything you do that could be seen as scummy you've defended with either "I'm not that dumb" or now "I'm a good player".

unvote, vote Wall-E

[White Castle]

So just to get this straight you're voting Wall-E as a policy lynch because he's a liability?

It would only be a policy lynch if he's lynched.

I tried the same thing on millar13 for voting without a reason, but everyone else was content to live with it.

If everyone that did scummy things says "I'm not that dumb" as their defense and everyone buys it, how do we catch scum?

Anti-town behavior should be squashed.

So when do you think you'll get around to voting someone in an un-quotey kind of way?

[White Castle]

Further, each mod is different and you could get yourself modkilled. Tell me, have you ever been modkilled and, if so, how many times?

What relevance does this have to the game?

An example to show that the rules matter.

[White Castle]

farside, if you read this you should have flaked earlier when you had a hard time keeping up. You've made it harder to find a replacement. In conjunction with Open 110, my meta on you is that you get yourself in too many games. Knock it off.

This game is just dragging on and on, and has been in day 1 for over a month.

Despite what Wall-E thought, there are no NKs.

At this rate, the game will end sometime in late 2010.

It takes 7 to lynch. Unless we lynch millar13, farside's vote is useless without a replacement. hewitt is waiting for divine intervention before voting.

That leaves 10 of us voting. Wall-E and Lowell are the top vote getters at present and probably won't vote themselves. That leaves 9 people to come up with 7 votes.

Seriously, do you people still want to play this game or not?

[White Castle]

Unvote

Vote; Lowell

The Nigtless and Try Harder comments.

Wall-E: Scummiest player?

A better question is: Why you've left your vote on Lowell since April 6th?

Is the case still the best one you've got? Do something. You're part of the problem, not the solution. I can see why there was a discussion about policy lynching you.

[White Castle]

WC: Is that why you're voting Wall-E. Lowell is by far the way the scummiest but because he's been like that from near the begining you'll instead vote for relatively pro-town Wall-E.

That's a problem causing attitude.

At least I'm posting reasons for voting that aren't about 300 posts old. Get off your butt and make us believe that "he's been like that from near the beginning". Stated differently, what has he done since 120 that's scummy?

He's at L-2 and his post is simply "giggle". He's posting in other places on MS. Is that "relatively pro-town"?

There are 4 scum in this game, and we can lynch them in any order. Who is your #2 through #4 suspect?

[White Castle]

Uh no White Castle actually you're not posting reasons for voting, you're just telling us that we should be voting for either Lowell or Wall-E since they're the top vote getters and you aren't providing much reasoning at all. I don't see a case on either that makes sense so far so of course I'm not going to vote for either of them at the moment.

White Castle who are your #1-4 suspects and give an in-depth answer as to why.

I'm tired of you again. I refuse to respond to you until you vote.

[White Castle]

WC: Is that why you're voting Wall-E. Lowell is by far the way the scummiest but because he's been like that from near the begining you'll instead vote for relatively pro-town Wall-E.

That's a problem causing attitude.

At least I'm posting reasons for voting that aren't about 300 posts old. Get off your butt and make us believe that "he's been like that from near the beginning". Stated differently, what has he done since 120 that's scummy?

He's at L-2 and his post is simply "giggle". He's posting in other places on MS. Is that "relatively pro-town"?

There are 4 scum in this game, and we can lynch them in any order. Who is your #2 through #4 suspect?

Skitzer, Lowell, Farside

So you are voting your #3 suspect? I thought Lowell was "by far the way scummiest" from post 416.

[White Castle]

Ooh, what's he going to do? Vote me?

[White Castle]

I've tried my best to keep this game going. I've posted often, and I think with good content most of the time.

As SC knows, I cross replaced into a game in order to get a replacement into this one. So when farside flaked, I was and still am upset. She shouldn't play games with her level of commitment.

So I tried the only thing I could think of to get things going. I wanted to see if I could make hewit vote. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

hewitt, I'll repond to you now. The four scummiest people in my opinion are: Wall-E (who I'm voting for), Empking, millar, and lowell.

At this point, I think someone needs to be in a noose for this game to progress, or the game will die.

Mod - please impose a deadline.

This way if hewitt never votes, his non-vote would essentially be a vote for the deadlined-lynchee.

[White Castle]

This way if hewitt never votes, his non-vote would essentially be a vote for the deadlined-lynchee.

So is it that of everyone else not voting at the time. I unvoted to give myself time to think about you. You've had a hissy fit with hewitt, and once you realized you were engaging in an exercise in futility, you post this, which given past actions is leading me to believe you're setting hewitt up to fall should the deadline lynch be that of a townie.

Vote: White Castle

hewitt is special, he hasn't cast a vote the whole game except by accident. Everyone else is on record and allows us to scumhunt by looking into voting records.

Your vote is based on an appeal to emotion, that you know that I'm feeling. Your read is incorrect. I was admittedly upset at farside, not hewitt.

[White Castle]

If you're upset at farside22, then why are you being abusive towards hewitt? I don't understand.

Mod: Possible V/LA next week. I'll tell you if I'll have access then.

Trying to get hewitt to vote is abusive? There is no connection between what farside did and me trying to get hewitt to vote.

You've got to admit that voting analysis is a valid scumhunting technique/tool. When someone doesn't vote, it impedes said analysis.

Either way, the mod hasn't posted in the replacement thread. I put this game at a 75% chance of getting abandoned.

[White Castle]

Voting analysis is not the ONLY scumhunting technique, there are so many other ways to analyze a player.

You are handicapping other players from using said technique.

Have you ever tried using voting analysis before?

[White Castle]

My two completed games as town were Open 121 and Newbie 715.

Here are the voting records for both of your completed games as town.

Newbie 715
In Newbie 715 which started on 12/16/08 in post 23 and you voted in:
post 37 on 12/16/18 (claimed joke vote)
post 212 on 1/4/09
post 369 on 2/8/09
post 417 on 2/26/09 (unvote)
post 449 on 2/22/09
post 483 on 3/8/09

Open 121
Open 121 which started on 2/24/09 in post 4.
However, you joined the game on 3/1/09 in post 121.
You voted in:
post 234 on 3/9/09
post 468 on 3/23/09

So to summarize my findings:
1) You at one time random (joke) voted, but stopped. Why did you stop? I know you couldn't have random voted in 121 where you replaced in.
2) Excluding the random vote, it took you about 19 days to find something worthy of lynching. In the other game, it took you 8 days (since you replaced in).
3) You have taken an awful long time before voting in this game. In fact, you haven't if we don't count the accidental-vote-by-poor-quoting. We're

over 40 days now and you haven't voted

. Why?
4)

Hewitt isn't acting like his normal town self this game.

[White Castle]

Actually to be quite honest I've never used voting analysis to find scum.

Don't dismiss my efforts to use it then.

You're like someone without kids trying to give me parenting advice to me(I have two daughters).

[White Castle]

Uh no White Castle actually you're not posting reasons for voting, you're just telling us that we should be voting for either Lowell or Wall-E since they're the top vote getters and you aren't providing much reasoning at all. I don't see a case on either that makes sense so far so of course I'm not going to vote for either of them at the moment.

White Castle who are your #1-4 suspects and give an in-depth answer as to why.

I'm tired of you again. I refuse to respond to you until you vote.

I've tried my best to keep this game going.

Mod - please impose a deadline.

This contradiction is perhaps the most telling I've seen in a while. It's unquestionable that WC has taken steps to end this day sooner rather than later, meaning his words don't match his actions. A dual-minded person (one who must think like an innocent AND a wolf) displays these kind of traits sometimes.

You are handicapping other players from using said technique.

Have you ever tried using voting analysis before?

He's not handicapping anything for the same reason you can't force him to do what he does not wish to do.

We all know we can make any specific player VERY uncomfortable if they are refusing to do something helpful with votes. In this case, I don't see how hewitt voting for WC could be helpful to WC unless WC is a wolf.

Three votes on WC in a page, I'm not going to vote him yet. I'd likely hammer, but not before we get this canary to sing a little. If he's still off-key I say we truss him up.

WC: Are you willing to quantify the source of the discrepancy between your words and actions? If so, please do.

I'll identify the discrepency. It is with you! You are misquoting me. Go back and quote both posts in their entirety. Then you will see there is no discrepency.

It's scummy for you to twist quotes like this.

Confirm vote Wall-E

[White Castle]

After double-checking, WC: Who did you want hewitt to vote FOR? I originally thought you were trying to get him to vote FOR YOU and I was racking my brain trying to figure out what the frick you were doing, but I see now that you merely want him to bold someone's name?

I'd hazard to guess that WC puts more stock in his own actual votes than his reasoning, and hewitt is the opposite way. Nothing wrong with either, really, but this could have been sparked by a simple cultural misunderstanding.

This does not change the dual-mindedness that WC has exhibited, however.

Wall-E continues his case based on his own confusion.

[White Castle]

While I'm waiting for WC to come back, does anyone want to rehash the points against me? I'd really like someone to compile a huge case-post that I can address line-by-line. I think it would be helpful for the town if that happened.

Why should the burden fall on us? It's not our fault that you haven't been keeping up with our cases on you.

[White Castle]

Mod request replacement

Am in too many games, and need to cut the ones that "aren't as good"

millar is scum in real life.

[White Castle]

So which is it hewitt? I've just shown that, as town, you've random voted. It contradicts your own statements in post 170. "Everybody who's played with me [hewitt] before " does not know this.

White Castle, I vote to lynch.

When I vote, it is with the intent to lynch and everybody who's played with me before has learned that and knows that and now so do you. So my vote is never misinterpreted as something that it isn't.

I understand that playstyles change, but at the same time you've contradicted yourself. As you say, you haven't been in that many games. By your own admission, it's not too hard to track what you've done (since you want to change).

You're quoting my first game as town as evidence to this game. My game is evolutionary and so is my playstyle, I'm relatively new to the site and I have very few completed games under my belt. You'll also notice that the town has lost every game I have been town in, so mind the fact that I'm trying to do something to change that. This game has been unbelievably slow and with all the people requesting replacement at staggering intervals it has been difficult for me to really find scum. Once I think I have though, you'll get an earful as to why.

I don't see any danger for a townie getting lynched at the moment.

I don't see the need to rush.

And do you know part of the reason why the game has been so slow? Non-voters. Yeah, there has been a lot of replacements. It makes scumhunting that much harder. I believe scum would like a game with a lot of replacements, since it makes scumhunting that much harder. Causing the game to drag on and on has increased the number of replacements.

Also, how do you know that no

townie

is in danger of getting lynched at the moment?

[White Castle]

DID IT GO OVER EVERYONE'S HEAD THAT HEWITT RANDOM VOTED IN NEWBIE 715 IN POST 37?!?

My two completed games as town were Open 121 and Newbie 715.

Here are the voting records for both of your completed games as town.

Newbie 715
In Newbie 715 which started on 12/16/08 in post 23 and you voted in:
post 37 on 12/16/18 (claimed joke vote)
post 212 on 1/4/09
post 369 on 2/8/09
post 417 on 2/26/09 (unvote)
post 449 on 2/22/09
post 483 on 3/8/09

Open 121
Open 121 which started on 2/24/09 in post 4.
However, you joined the game on 3/1/09 in post 121.
You voted in:
post 234 on 3/9/09
post 468 on 3/23/09

So to summarize my findings:
1) You at one time random (joke) voted, but stopped. Why did you stop? I know you couldn't have random voted in 121 where you replaced in.
2) Excluding the random vote, it took you about 19 days to find something worthy of lynching. In the other game, it took you 8 days (since you replaced in).
3) You have taken an awful long time before voting in this game. In fact, you haven't if we don't count the accidental-vote-by-poor-quoting. We're

over 40 days now and you haven't voted

. Why?
4)

Hewitt isn't acting like his normal town self this game.

[White Castle]

As for hewit's "slip" about no townies being in danger, I believe him. I felt it best to question his post. It wasn't a misrep.

But hewitt still contradicts himself about NEVER RANDOM VOTING, unless he wants to split hairs that a joke vote isn't a random vote.

[White Castle]

As recently as post 478 he said "everyone who has played with me before knows that I don't random vote." Well, everyone in Newbie 715 would have to disagree.

[White Castle]

SC - look at his own words in his recent posts. If everyone he has ever played with is able to confirm his statement that "he doesn't random vote", logically it means that he's never random voted.

[White Castle]

Alright Cougar, I'll try to brake it town into small pieces.

As recently as post 478 he said "everyone who has played with me before knows that I don't random vote."

Do you agree with this quote? Note that it takes place in

this game

.

[White Castle]

EBWOP:

Alright Cougar, I'll try to

break it down

into small pieces.

As recently as post 478 he said "everyone who has played with me before knows that I don't random vote."

Do you agree with this quote? Note that it takes place in

this game

.

[White Castle]

Mod - are you still there?

You haven't posted in a while, and we need yet another replacement.

[White Castle]

EBWOP:

Alright Cougar, I'll try to

break it down

into small pieces.

As recently as post 478 he said "everyone who has played with me before knows that I don't random vote."

Do you agree with this quote? Note that it takes place in

this game

.

Coug, answer the question. Do you agree with this quote? Yes or no.

[White Castle]

Coug, answer the question. Do you agree with this quote? Yes or no.

No, because he's speaking in terms of absolutes and he's changing. It's minor, however, and doesn't make him scum in this game. Now drop it.

Unvote

Vote: Wall-E

Bandwagon. Now.

FoS: Empking

for voting someone at just because you want a bandwagon at this point of the game.

Coug - we're at an impass then. I can't even get you to agree that Coug said, in his own words in post 478, that "everyone who has played with me before knows that I don't random vote."

He said that in THIS GAME.

He said EVERYONE WHO HAS EVER PLAYED. That includes the newbie 715.

All of the 9 players in that game saw him random vote.

I bring it up, showing that hewitt contradicted himself. He may have flat out lied. That is scummy.

You are scummy too for defending his scummy actions.

[White Castle]

I'd argue that if somebody in Newbie 715 didn't play with hewitt again until now and is unaware of his meta, the statement would be misleading to that person, but I still don't think he's scummy for saying it.

Empking was in newbie 715 and he is in this game.

By your own admission, hewitt mislead Empking.

Convince me that being misleading is not scummy.

[White Castle]

Will post more soon. I've got a bunch of meetings today.

It's funny that when hewitt finally decides to vote, he messed it up.

[White Castle]

WC: Post "something"

something

Why are you singling me out?

Since Furry was kind enough to replace in and intends on getting caught up by the end of the week (which is well before the deadline), I was going to post just enough to not get prodded. Mastin needs to catch up also.

I still think that Wall-E is very scummy. For several days now he's done nothing but expect us to rehash the case on him, all the while pushing my bandwagon with the likes of misquoting me and posting "More votes for WC people, obvscum over there." He's even gone so far as to vote me twice in a row (see vote count in 505 and his revote in 521 trying to fake a growing bandwagon).

hewitt lied to all of us

in this game

. I proved him wrong. Now he's voting me. Coincidence? I think not. SC and anyone else that "believes" hewitt's lie is on my list too. This is in addition to my previously stated suspicions.

I fell into SCs trap when I made post 500. He stuck a bunch of artificial conditions into his post that can only be answered by what is in Empking's head. Adding a bunch of fake conditions doesn't diminish the original argument:
1) In this game hewitt made a great big stink about voting only to lynch which means that he doesn't random vote. [See also his accidental quote-vote and ensuing complaining to the mod.]
2) He backed up 1) by saying that everyone who has ever played with him would agree with 1).
3) I showed that he has random voted in Newbie 715, contradicting 1) and 2).
4)

So he lied to all of us in this game.

5) hewitt is trying to backpedal in 526.

White Castle, I vote to lynch.

When I vote, it is with the intent to lynch and everybody who's played with me before has learned that and knows that and now so do you. So my vote is never misinterpreted as something that it isn't.

Vote: Masque

I don't like anime.

As a side note, I

knew

someone would random vote me because of that. XD

Hey at least it's a joke vote haha.

Part of his case on me is that I'm tunneling on him. Well, in addition to voting for him I've also voted for Lowell, millar, and Wall-E. It's funny that I'm using votes to contradict something else hewitt lied about.

I'm pretty sure I'm the top poster in this game. There should be enough out there on me and my opinions. This game has been over a month, over 500 posts, and has had four replacements since the game started. Someone needs a noose necktie.

[White Castle]

mod - how about some prods? Based on this page alone:

Scum-E
hewitt
Mastin
skitzer

[White Castle]

And what's PoE? It isn't in the wiki.

[White Castle]

Fascinating...

[White Castle]

I'm over what you're accusing me of White Castle. If you're going to keep bringing that up (because it is trivial and you're refusing to see my point anyway) I might as well bring up how you completely contradicted yourself in post #150.

Bring it on. Back up your vote on me.

It's an ambushing thing: Suddenly popping up with a huge amount of carefully collected evidence... I've seen it win games for the town.

If, on the other hand, I said, "Oh, I've got my eye on you, Wall-E" then Wall-E is going to stop providing me with evidence against him. Feedback is a tool the scum use in this manner.

No feedback for the scum is my motto. That's also why I don't discuss who's town-looking without a good reason.

Uh, I don't like to discuss my meta unless it's relevant, so try to keep it relevant, ok? I don't have a good judgement of such things which is what gets me into trouble sometimes with moderators, so help me help you help me, if you please, kiss.

There may be additional merit to the ambush in a nightless game, since you don't have to worry about the NK.

This also leads me to believe that being an aggressive townie is the best strategy. You've got nothing to lose at night. I believe that anyone that has been passive (especially non-voters, low count posters, and low content posters) is more likely to be scum.

What do you think about each of us putting together a list of their top four suspects in order? At a minimum, we should get this from everyone before they are lynched (a town lynch would give us an un-scum-biased list, I won't comment on what a scum lynch would tell us because, as you say, don't give the scum feedback).

[White Castle]

Hmm...
I'm disliking the WC wagon a lot.
From what I've seen of WC, he's been fairly pro-town.

I like the Wall-E wagon that formed.

What do you do in this game???

Vote: White Castle

For pretty much the same exact reasons as before, except slightly more re-inforced.

So you're voting me becuase I caught you lying?

What exactly is slightly more reinforced?

I'll post more when I get to work and get a chance to look into my notes.

[White Castle]

I've decided to do a reread to see if there is anything I've missed, particularly since Wall-E was (anti-)town.

Mod - please post an updated vote count.

If you put Emp and SC in a room together, they'll fill up pages.

[White Castle]

Posting to avoid a prod. Will have actual content soon.

[White Castle]

Reread is complete. I recommend that everyone do the same.

My last list of suspects needs updating. I'd like SC and hewitt to note that hewitt was not on the list. In fact, at the time of this post my vote was on Wall-E where is stayed the rest of the day. Get your facts straight.

I've tried my best to keep this game going. I've posted often, and I think with good content most of the time.

As SC knows, I cross replaced into a game in order to get a replacement into this one. So when farside flaked, I was and still am upset. She shouldn't play games with her level of commitment.

So I tried the only thing I could think of to get things going. I wanted to see if I could make hewit vote. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

hewitt, I'll repond to you now. The four scummiest people in my opinion are: Wall-E (who I'm voting for), Empking, millar, and lowell.

At this point, I think someone needs to be in a noose for this game to progress, or the game will die.

Mod - please impose a deadline.

This way if hewitt never votes, his non-vote would essentially be a vote for the deadlined-lynchee.

I'm removing Wall-E (duh).

Lowell stays on the list, although I've noted in a reread how he's been agreeing with me (such as the Wall-E vote and not liking the bandwagon on me)

Empking is still on my list for the past reasons, and for getting into a pissing contest with SC. I now see why we had a discussion about policy lynching him at the beginning of the game.

unvote, vote empking

millar (now Furry) is still on my list because of millar's actions. Furry seems a lot more town than millar and does have a good idea about mostly confirmed townies being an asset.

A new addition is skitzer because I'm getting good town vibes from netlava and jazz. Net made a good case in 111 and Jazz did one in 167. I've already gone on record in 143 about skitzer.

I'd order my suspects as Emp, skitzer, Lowell, and furry

Mastin needs to be policy lynched if he isn't caught up by D3. I don't think pressure votes would accomplish anything except drag this game out even further.

[quote=""Netlava Post 111""]After, re-reading the thread,

Vote: Skitzer

The way he characterizes things makes me suspicious i.e.

farside in Post 24: Sadly, that almost sounds like a good idea.

In reference to the policy lynch proposal. Something about ""sadly"" and ""policy lynch"" doesn't mix.

Ugh, White Castle, your constant linkage to the Wiki makes me feel weird about you.

The word constant is a bit of an exaggeration imo. Note that Adam Smith also says something along these lines though.

Netlava in Post 68: Eww. Everyone off the ol' Lowellwagon!

Not liking this for obvious reasons.

White Castle in Post 75: You make 2 wiki uses in 8 posts sound like nothing.

I may use it once, but usually never in a game.

Bolded part is what I don't like.

But then... White Castle in Post 77: I pose the same question to you that you posed to me. What about the other 3 that quickly hopped on the wagon?

It wasn't a wagon yet when I joined.[/quote]

At present, my top choice for scum is Skitzer. I have other suspicions but Skitzer takes number one spot, for several reasons:

In his very first post, he did the following:
- put Empking on his “Townie list”. Town shouldn't make townie lists and in Skitzer's first post, it was wayyyy too soon to come to any such conclusion anyway.
- commented to farside saying, “Sadly…” re FS's campaign to have Empking policy lynched. What's "sad" about it?
- accuses White Castle of “constant linkage” to the wiki, when WC had only referred to it twice (while Skitzer simultaneously makes no mention of FS linking to it).

In his second post, he commented negatively on my post #63 in which I unvoted Lowell, without noticing that I gave reasons for my vote and gave reasons for my unvote. It's as though he was just skimming and trying to come up with something to say to try to avoid looking like lurking scum.

In his third post, he reasserts his odd allegation that it is somehow suspicious for WC to have referred to the wiki twice, but says that he might do so himself once. Strange.

In his fourth post, he continues to cling, albeit very weakly, to his poor allegation against me from his second post (while still ignoring the fact that I gave reasons both for my vote and my unvote), and goes on to 'agree' with hewitt that "saying all you've got is better for town rather than holding stuff back" - which is (a) not true, as there are many circumstances in which doing so would harm, not help, town; and (b) I find that it is often scum who make such claims and such requests in the guise of trying to appear to be pro-town, while actually trying to get info that they can use for their own scum purposes.

He also admits in this post to exaggerating his claim against WC re “constantly” referring to the wiki when he had done so only twice; claims to have been "joking" in a prior post to FS, and admits to "exaggerating", "incoherent", and "inconsistent" posts cited by Netlava.

Yet, bizarrely, in his fifth post, he re-asserts his claim that there is some kind of major difference between farside using the wiki once and WC using it twice, and he again exaggerates WC's wiki use, saying that he “seems to be taking it whole hog and applying it to anything and everything in this game”. This is particularly strange since he had just admitted in his fourth post that he had exaggerated the same point previously.

And... that's it. He has all of five posts all game and he's managed to make specious allegations, contradict himself, be incoherent and inconsistent, as well as skimmy and lurky, all of which adds up to scummy.

Vote: Skitzer

More later.

Regards,
Jazz

Oops! Forgot Page 4 existed.

White Castle in Post 75: You make 2 wiki uses in 8 posts sound like nothing. I may use it once, but usually never in a game. Please don't play the newbie card. You skipped over the OMGUS, so I'm assuming your not denying it. I wouldn't either. About Post 51: Exactly. Lowell had very little with which to defend himself. I can see your point about the other 4, surprisingly. At least you actually had something to go off of. And about V/LA: Oops, I slightly lied.

But then... White Castle in Post 77: I pose the same question to you that you posed to me. What about the other 3 that quickly hopped on the wagon?

I'm glad someone else (go Netlava!) picked up what I was thinking.

After, re-reading the thread,

Vote: Skitzer

The way he characterizes things makes me suspicious i.e.

farside in Post 24: Sadly, that almost sounds like a good idea.

In reference to the policy lynch proposal. Something about "sadly" and "policy lynch" doesn't mix.

Ugh, White Castle, your constant linkage to the Wiki makes me feel weird about you.

The word constant is a bit of an exaggeration imo. Note that Adam Smith also says something along these lines though.

Netlava in Post 68: Eww. Everyone off the ol' Lowellwagon!

Not liking this for obvious reasons.

White Castle in Post 75: You make 2 wiki uses in 8 posts sound like nothing.

I may use it once, but usually never in a game.

Bolded part is what I don't like.

But then... White Castle in Post 77: I pose the same question to you that you posed to me. What about the other 3 that quickly hopped on the wagon?

It wasn't a wagon yet when I joined.

Wall-E in Post 100: Why? I definitely agree with hewitt here: saying all you've got is better for town rather than holding stuff back.

Jazzmyn in Post 105: Sure, but that sounds more like an easy out to me. It's all WIFOM now though.

Netlava in Post 111: I'm sorry for my cadences, but they seem to be correct in their statings. First quote was joking, second quote was exaggeration, but it is a lot more than I've ever seen anyone do it before. The third quote looks OMGUSy. Fourth quote doesn't make sense, and fifth one may have been inconsistent, but you were/still are on the bandwagon at one point.

skitzer, if you are town you aren't being pro-town. How are we supposed to know when you are "joking", "exaggerating", "incoherent" (OK, that was easy to pick up), or "inconsistent".

How about "scumhunting" for a change

?

As for me quoting the wiki twice (in consecutive posts 3 minutes apart no less) being "a lot more than you've ever seen anyone do it before". I know for a fact that farside brought it up once in this game before I ever did. Was that a big deal? You haven't mentioned it. Your yardstick of "twice is unusual but once is fine" baffles me.

Further, I asked you first about your opinions of the others on the Lowell bandwagon. It is fair to ask for my opinions, but only after you answer my question (which you hadn't in 124 which is your last game post). You'll get your answer after I get mine. Either deliberately or accidentally, you're trying to set a bad precedent. If everyone when asked a question fires it back at the questioner without answering, this game is futile.

As of my writing, we're up to post 142 and you still haven't voted either. What are you waiting for?

[White Castle]

Mastin needs to be policy lynched if he isn't caught up by D3. I don't think pressure votes would accomplish anything except drag this game out even further.

You're voting a policy lynch and then proposing another policy lynch? That's ludacris in a game of this size, especially after a D1 mislynch.

Did you just gloss over the fact that Emp isn't just a policy lynch? I think so.

By the way, who do you suspect other than me?

[White Castle]

I didn't see any overly scummy reasons to be voting for Empking considering he's playing like he normally does. So I would consider that a policy lynch. And at this point, unfortunately, pretty much nobody. The game has died down so much it's really difficult to scumhunt.

700+ posts, and you've only got one suspect? My mental image of you is one of those people you hate to be in line behind. You take too long to make up your mind.

Today's menu has 10 items on it (not counting yourself). You have made one selection out of four, and are stalling the rest of the line.

[Not to mention your first pick is wrong.]

[White Castle]

hewitt, see post 703 earlier on THIS PAGE. I've already listed all of my suspects.

I'm not all-knowing. I thought Wall-E was scum.

Instead of insulting me you should try scumhunting.

[White Castle]

mod - how about another deadline?

[White Castle]

712 - you said I was "all knowing".

[White Castle]

So will being stubborn with your vote.

[White Castle]

3 according to my count anyway. This would look better in a font where all of the characters are the same width (like courier new).

Name_________________Count__Voters
Empking______________3______Furry, StrangerCoug, White Castle
no vote______________3______Mastin, Jazzmyn, skitzer
skitzer______________2______Netlava, Lowell
Mastin_______________1______Guybrush Threepwood
StrangerCoug_________1______Empking
White Castle_________1______hewitt

hewitt, the point isn't just the nonvoters, it's also that you are tunneling on me. After a while all of the people who are the sole vote on someone aren't doing any good either.

[White Castle]

Thanks scumtzer!

Code: Select all

3 according to my count anyway.  This would look better in a font where all of the characters are the same width (like courier new).

Name_________________Count__Voters
Empking______________3______Furry, StrangerCoug, White Castle
no vote______________3______Mastin, Jazzmyn, skitzer
skitzer______________2______Netlava, Lowell
Mastin_______________1______Guybrush Threepwood
StrangerCoug_________1______Empking
White Castle_________1______hewitt

hewitt, the point isn't just the nonvoters, it's also that you are tunneling on me.  After a while all of the people who are the sole vote on someone aren't doing any good either.

[White Castle]

Sorry skitzer!

So would you like to put a vote on someone while you're here?

[White Castle]

How about that deadline?

[White Castle]

No, I'd rather wait for those who should make a post (Lowell, GT, and especially Mastin) so that discussion may be sparked again.

If everyone played "I'm waiting for you to post" then this game would be at a standstill. Oh wait, it is!

@hewitt - it goes without saying that I'd be all over a vote without reasons (see millar13).

mod - how about some prods?

[White Castle]

Three more Empking votes people.

Unless you want to lynch skitzer. I'd support that, but I prefer the Scumking.

Consider them to both be L-3.5.

hewitt - you always seem to be around. Between Emp & skitzer, who would you prefer to size up for a rope necklace?

[White Castle]

I'd prefer skitzer, but would lynch either one.

That would put Scumking in the lead then at 4 votes, while skitzer would only have 3.

I've already asked for hewitt's input (he hasn't posted yet but I'm sure he'll give his opinion, even if it is no opinion). Anyone else have a preference between Empking & skitzer?

[White Castle]

I hope Jazz doesn't flake. I have a strong pro-town vibe on Jazz.

[White Castle]

Mastin - IIoA

Have you even read the thread yet?

[White Castle]

He's giving us information and not scumhunting. That doesn't fit the definition?

[White Castle]

I've PMd the mod to see if he still has a pulse. He's been around, just not here.

Empking is at L-2 with hewitt's vote.

Lowell has said he'd also vote for Emp, which would be L-1.

[White Castle]

Prods -

Jazz hasn't posted since 5/16
Guy hasn't posted since 5/26
Mastin hasn't posted since 5/29

Has anyone ever played with Mastin before? I don't have a complete game with him.

[White Castle]

Hopefully everything works out OK for your daughter.

No need to apologize. Family comes first.

[White Castle]

@skitzer - given that Jazz is out and Mastin only responds to prods, care to share your opinion on who is scum? You've only mentioned me.

@empking - I'm surprised you are leaving your vote on SC when you are a bandwagon of 1 and at L-2.

@mastin - how many votes do we need to put on you before you contribute?

[White Castle]

I'm here, moving this week so I have limited access... Wlil try to keep reading.

He hasn't posted anywhere since 5/26.

[White Castle]

What "lesser of two evils" are you talking about SC?

[White Castle]

Exchange that took place May 1:

WC: Is that why you're voting Wall-E. Lowell is by far the way the scummiest but because he's been like that from near the begining you'll instead vote for relatively pro-town Wall-E.

That's a problem causing attitude.

At least I'm posting reasons for voting that aren't about 300 posts old. Get off your butt and make us believe that "he's been like that from near the beginning". Stated differently, what has he done since 120 that's scummy?

He's at L-2 and his post is simply "giggle". He's posting in other places on MS. Is that "relatively pro-town"?

There are 4 scum in this game, and we can lynch them in any order. Who is your #2 through #4 suspect?

Skitzer, Lowell, Farside

So you are voting your #3 suspect? I thought Lowell was "by far the way scummiest" from post 416.

Skitzer, Wall-E, Farside

Event that took place earlier today:

SC: Furry & You are the scum and won't change their minds. Hewitt ewants the scum to win and won't change his mind. WC can't find a suspect of his own and so won't change his mind.

Emp – why did your suspect list change?

[White Castle]

Those three haven't done anything scummy in ages.

What three are you specifically talking about?

[White Castle]

Empking: Pop quiz

Who replaced farside?

[White Castle]

EBWOP - I'm stupid. I thought Furry replaced farside.

[White Castle]

Because I didn't get it right, here is everyone.

Alive:

Guybrush Threepwood (farside22)
skitzer
hewitt
Lowell
Furry (millar13)
Jazzmyn

(bookworm513)

StrangerCoug (lixyl)
Mastin (Adam Smith)
Empking
Netlava
White Castle

Dead:

Wall-E, Townie, Lynched Day 1.

Note: Those in tiny text never participated in the game.

Note to self: with 4 scum in the game (and Wall-E was town), that means there is a decent chance that a scum got replaced.

[White Castle]

Missed this:

What "lesser of two evils" are you talking about SC?

Empking refuses to unvote me and does not have a very good case against me. The "lesser of two evils" I speak of if he can't post anything lynchworthy against me are to pursue another case or resign. (I'd much rather he do the former, mind you, but it's his option.)

That's an interesting throught. I hadn't considered that possibility.

So raise your hand if you think this will get decided at the deadline?

<WC's hand goes up>

[White Castle]

Furry, you make a good point about replacements. We may not get one.

We got a replacement in Mastin, and look at how it turned out.

Who wants to join nightless game on page 32 in D2? It has been going on since March.

So far that's one hand and a paw that think we're just waiting for deadlines around here.

[White Castle]

SC: Furry & You are the scum and won't change their minds.

What the fudge!? How does being super-confident make us scummy?

Quote where I said that.

Emp - It looks like you already quoted it.

[White Castle]

SC: Furry & You are the scum and won't change their minds.

What the fudge!? How does being super-confident make us scummy?

Quote where I said that.

Emp - It looks like you already quoted it.

Quote where I quoted it.

and won't change their minds

[White Castle]

I equated your "won't change their minds" with SC's "super-confident".

[White Castle]

I didn't catch the subtle difference until just now. Maybe if you say more than "Quote where I say that" you'll be more effective.

Do you think it's possible that SC is town and that SC is convinced you are scum?

[White Castle]

<Waits for hewitt to see Mastin voting hewitt with no good reason>

Mastin, since it is nightless I'd argue the only people who don't have the time to talk are SCUM. And that is throwing you off?

FOS Mastin

[White Castle]

If you take a peak at the other threads, the other games are finished up to Open 142. 143 is still onging.

If we keep this up, games in the 200s will be finished before we're done.

Netlava - I'd be down for a Mastin lynch. Then I'd go back to Emp.

Unofficial Mastin vote count = 2 (Netlava, WC)

Anyone else up for breaking his neck?

[White Castle]

I can get behind a Mastin lynch if he doesn't find anything decent to post—I don't imagine him like this as town—but I want Empking dead first.

Unofficial Mastin votecount = 3 (Netlava, WC, SC)

SC - this is a nightless game without power roles. The order in which we nail scum doesn't matter.

[White Castle]

Getting townvibes from mastin.

Here we go again. Didn't you know skitzer was town from your magic?

[White Castle]

So we have someone that thrives under pressure. Excellent quality, if you ask me (and I mean it!).

Did you post your opinion of Empking yet, Mastin?

So is that quality scummy or not?

[White Castle]

SC - this is a nightless game without power roles. The order in which we nail scum doesn't matter.

That's technically true, but Empking is scummier to me than Mastin.

Or you are scum and have a preference of lynching town over your buddies.

[White Castle]

SC - this is a nightless game without power roles. The order in which we nail scum doesn't matter.

That's technically true, but Empking is scummier to me than Mastin.

Or you are scum and have a preference of lynching town over your buddies.

The problem with your StrangerScum theory is that you haven't posted much lately supporting the idea that I'm Mafia. Just questions regarding what other people think. I'm leaning towards you being a buddy of his because you pushed hewitt for lying (itself suspicious because the case really wasn't all that lynchworthy), yet when Empking did the same to me you were anti-Empking in the posts you talk about it. Bus much?

I'm just completing the possibilities for those of us who don't know if you're scum or not.

So your case on me is that I pushed hewitt for lying. Two questions:

Are you ready to admitt that he was lying?

How hard did I push hewitt for that lie?

[White Castle]

SC, you can't find the hewitt vote you are looking for because it doesn't exist.

Now why don't you look for a HoS/FoS?

[White Castle]

The problem with your StrangerScum theory is that you haven't posted much lately supporting the idea that I'm Mafia. Just questions regarding what other people think. I'm leaning towards you being a buddy of his because you pushed hewitt for lying (itself suspicious because the case really wasn't all that lynchworthy), yet when Empking did the same to me you were anti-Empking in the posts you talk about it. Bus much?

So do you still think I'm scum because I "pushed hewitt for lying"?

[White Castle]

So is this game still going or not? Im low on time right now and dont want to spend a few hours catching up only to get the plug pulled on me.

We don't know yet.

[White Castle]

The cougar is quick like a cat!

[White Castle]

Well, at least we reply to mod pms.

skitzer - care to add anything other than "ha". If everyone keeps up the "you post first" mentality, the game will get even slower.

[White Castle]

I find it interesting that Hewitt and WC ignored what I posted on my PBPA of Hewitt. My vote on Hewitt was, initially, on a reread of some of what Hewitt said, seemingly not as good. However, as I saw the connection, it became more disturbing. It need SERIOUS looking into.

Like you said, it was a PBPA of hewitt. There were no questions directed at me. Mastin, not everyone feels the need to comment about everything.

As you said, "It need SERIOUS looking into". So look into it. Your head is half in this game (at best).

[White Castle]

Unvote, vote: Mastin

Quicklynch, now! go, go, go!

<chuckles at thought of a quicklynch in this game>

If three unofficial Mastin votes got his head out of the sand, maybe two official votes would be better.

SC - you said you liked how Mastin responds to pressure. Care to add some more pressure?

unvote, vote Mastin

[White Castle]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Code: Select all

Day 2: 6 votes required
Name_________________Count__Voters
Empking______________3______Furry, StrangerCoug, hewitt
Mastin_______________3______Guybrush Threepwood, Netlava, White Castle
no vote______________2______Jazzmyn, skitzer
skitzer______________2______Lowell, Empking
hewitt_______________1______Mastin

I'd forgotten about GTs mastin vote.

What say you Lowell?

[White Castle]

skitzer's last three posts:

No, I'd rather wait for those who should make a post (Lowell, GT, and especially Mastin) so that discussion may be sparked again.

Empking: White Castle's probably my top suspect, but the lack of contribution by just about everyone else (including me) isn't helping. It seems like everyone gave up on this game because we lynched a townie.

Ha.

skitzer - please post some content.

[White Castle]

I'll post something of substance soon.

[White Castle]

pm me if this game is still on.

[White Castle]

unvote, vote Empking

I'd rather he go than Mastin.

[White Castle]

Mod hasn't posted on MS since 6/8...

[White Castle]

Posting at farside's request.

[White Castle]

I'm back. I need to catch up.

[White Castle]

So!

We need a deadline.

We need a mod

We need a replacement that has a role PM, or modkills, or a combination of the two.

We need a lot of stuff....

Remind me not to play/replace in Rishi's games again.

Doesn't he owe you a favor for replacing in?

I hope that everything is OK with him.

[White Castle]

Posting to avoid a prod. The good news is that I'm almost done with quarterly reporting at work.

[White Castle]

@mod

- Prods, replacements, deadline, modkills. We need some or all of those to get this game moving again.

I agree. Without a mod, this game is my lowest priority.

[White Castle]

No need for more prods yet. I sent out a massprod and everyone has picked up their PM.

All role issues have been resolved.

I will not mod-kill unless I definitely cannot find a replacement and I will introduce a deadline if I deem it necessary.

Can you edit post 0 to show who is still in the game and who replaced who? Thanks.

[White Castle]

Mod - could you please update the first post with who replaced who?

Could we also get a vote count?

Thanks.

[White Castle]

Can other people request a deadline so we actually get one

@mod

- What happened to the replacement we got then hasnt posted?

This game has gone on forever. Statistically we're ahead of the curve since we got rid of 1 mafia at a cost of only 1 townie.

Why don't we just start lynching?

[White Castle]

First post will be edited when I (eventually) get given mod powers.

Votecount

2- skitzer: (Furry, Netlava)
2- Netlava: (hewitt, StrangerCoug)
1- Mastin: (skitzer)
1- Jazzmyn: (Lowell)
1- hewitt: (Mastin)

Not Voting: Ojanen, Jazzmyn, White Castle

With

10

alive it will take

6

to lynch.

So who are we missing? Jazzmyn & Ojanen?

vote Jazzmyn

Ojanen is next, unless he/she/it gets more support.

[White Castle]

Prodding Ojanen, skitzer.

If I can't find a replacement for Jazzmyn soon, I think I may have to modkill.

That must have been one quite the Ojanen prod.

[White Castle]

Prodding Ojanen, skitzer.

If I can't find a replacement for Jazzmyn soon, I think I may have to modkill.

That must have been one quite the Ojanen prod.

EBWOP [the meaning got butchered] that must have been quite the prod on Ojanen.

[because he started posting a lot]

[White Castle]

How about we make a self imposed deadline for July 31st?

After that, we make a self imposed deadline for August 15th?

After that, we make a self imposed deadline for August 31st.

...